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- [00:00]
A
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C
Everything went dark as funeral garbage. Then, here and there, some flashes, like those bright spots that appear when you vainly stare at the sun from behind eyelids that are as tightly clenched as fists fighting pain or emotion. Of course, she hadn't described it like that at all. A child of 10, startled and anxious, expresses distrust bluntly, without embellishment or lyricism. Mommy, it's gone all black. This is GP Gottlieb, host for New Books in Literature, a podcast channel on the New Books Network. Today I'm talking to Thomas Schlesser about his stunning debut novel, Mona's Eyes, originally published in French. Mona is 10 years old when she experiences a sudden temporary blindness. And every Wednesday afternoon, when her parents think she is seeing the doctor recommended psychiatrist, Mona's grandfather takes her to one of the great museums of Paris to see the most striking and influential pieces of art created by artists who transformed the way art is seen. Mona, tutored patiently by her grandfather, learns about the 5 century history of art, grows closer to her beloved grandfather, and begins to understand the world she lives in. Hi Thomas. Thanks for joining me.
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B
Hello. I'm very, very honored and proud to be with you.
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C
So, as an accomplished professor of art history with a position at a prestigious French institution and a number of publications under your belt, how and why did you decide to write this novel?
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B
Because you know when you are a professor, you have a Lot of ways of speaking about art, culture, but a novel is a perfect way to convey more emotions. And for me, that was very important. To avoid writing another essay on art history with Mona's eyes. I wanted to create a real universe, a real world around paintings, culture and so on. So that's not the only reason of this choice, but that's certainly one of the main reasons.
- [03:53]
C
Out of curiosity, how long have you been working on this?
- [03:56]
B
That was a bit long because that was not so easy to write it and I spent 10 years of my life. But I have to add that in parallel, I published three other books, but which were not novels, they were not fictions, they were essays on a biography. So, yeah, 10 years. I have to say, this is a bit long.
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C
Well, it's a gorgeous novel, as I've said before to you. Do you know a precocious little girl with brilliant eyesight and a prodigious memory upon which to base the character of Mona? Or did you come out of. Did that come out of your brain?
- [04:40]
B
My God. As you know, my dear, we are always inspired by a full of characters when we are writing. And of course, this inspiration was full of my memories when I was a child. My family, my friends and so on. But the characters are often a mix between people I used to know and people who were, for example, professors or teachers with whom I haven't had any conversation, but who were, in a way or another, in my life.
- [05:39]
C
Well, that explains why mona, who is 10 years old, is just so bright and remembers everything her grandfather tells her. She's really quite a character. You set yourself the task of choosing 52 artists from among thousands. Can you talk about that process? Was it clear immediately who was going to be on the list?
- [06:07]
B
Yeah. So when I started the novel, I had a list, a very big list. And as you can imagine, there was a very huge amount of artworks, a very huge selection. But after a few days of reflection, I understood that the best way of really writing a novel should consist in focusing on only a little part. Overall, the novel takes place in Paris and in three museums. So that was, you know, a restriction in my choice. And of course, I am very frustrated about some lacks there is in this book. But yeah, that was the game. And, you know, the choice is based on my, of course, on some of my preference. But the choice was based on the character of Henry, because he's in charge of choosing the works in front of which Mona and him will discuss. Henry is a mix between someone who is very classical, but he's A mix with someone very classical and someone with a great opening of mind. And I think that the selection is consistent with this character.
- [08:00]
C
Well, okay, since we're talking about Henri, we know that you are highly qualified as a scholar to write about art, but we never learn what Mona's grandfather did for a living or why he's so proficient at teaching her about art and its history. Can you say more?
- [08:17]
B
Yeah, you're right. I think that Henri is a very special character because he's full of mystery. He's very, very impressive, even if Mona is not really impressed by him because she adores a relationship with him. And, you know, I think that this is a very special link there is between him and Mona, which explains the quality of all the lessons he's able to convey, is able to give. Remember that there is a game between Mona and Henry. The game consists in speaking as if Mona were an adult. And this is a serious game because that's perfect for him. Mona is always, of course, she remains a child, but she's someone we consider, like, unequal. And that's really the secret of. Of their relationship.
- [09:38]
C
Oh, it was just beautiful. Are the teachings of the artists well known and understood? Or did you pare down the works of each artist, like Leonardo da Vinci, as wanting to teach viewers to smile at life? In other words, did you. Who wrote those? You or the artist?
- [09:59]
B
No, of course. This is a nearly always my own choice.
- [10:07]
C
Okay.
- [10:08]
B
Because, you know, this book is a novel, so you can imagine the very subjective part in all those chapters. My goal wasn't to explore the very official way of considering all those artists. There is a very subjective part. But I tried to have something very. How could I say, very faithful to the spirit of. Of all those artists. But it is true, sometimes this is like a surprise with some of them. I can recognize that. Yeah.
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A
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- [13:30]
B
Oh my God. You know, I conducted my PhD on Gustave Courbet years ago. So Gustave Courbet is a kind of member of my family, you know, because a huge part of my youth was devoted to Gustave Courbet and he remains one of my favorite artists. First, because he's a great painter. You know, when you are in front of a painting of Courbet, you always have the impression to feel so many sensations. But secondly, Courbet is really someone very interesting in the French history because he was very involved in some social and political struggles Concerning Degas, of course, that's once again a beautiful artist. But that's not really he. The kind of man I would have been a friend with. And that's something which is very interesting, I think, in the book because Henri tries to make Mona sensitive to the question of the life and the character of the artist. And sometimes, of course, there is a gap between the genius of some artists and their position, their political position in their life. And of course, you cannot avoid those kind of issues when you learn art history.
- [15:20]
C
It seems like an extraordinary challenge to visit only one work of art per week, which is part of the rule of the game that Henri is playing with Mona. One piece of art. So a few days ago I visited the Art Institute of Chicago to see the Gustav Caillebot exhibition. And I planned to just briefly stop by to say hello to the Impressionists, as I always do. But then we passed the American Rooms and I had to stop and just. I. I just wanted to see the Mary Cassatt and a couple, you know, James Whistler. But then they're surrounded by other beautiful pieces. So I was there for two hours. Do you yourself ever go to a museum and only look at one piece of art? Is that possible?
- [16:01]
B
Once again, as you can imagine, this is a novel. I know.
- [16:05]
C
I'm just wondering.
- [16:06]
B
I'm not really sure I will be able to remain more than 40 minutes in front of just one artwork without saying anything. But I know some of my friends who are really fond of meditating, for example, in front of an artwork. And. No, I have to say that I love diving into a walk, but sometimes this is more intellectual than sensual. So I'm not exactly a perfect reflection of what happens in the. Okay, that's. Yeah. And everybody should have his own way looking at artworks. Yeah.
- [17:05]
C
All right. Professor Schlosser says that, no, there is no wrong way to visit a museum. That's what I'm hearing. Right. Okay. One of the many parts of the novel I loved was your attention to all the senses. Will you talk about how you used hearing, taste, touch and smell to tell the story of Mona's sense of sight?
- [17:26]
B
Thank you. That's very important for me to tackle this point because, yes, this is a multi sensorial novel. This is a multisensorial story. Of course we should believe it is only focused on sight. But. But no, of course the music is extremely present. Smelling is extremely present. Because, you know, I think that when you are in front of a very good painting, all the aspects of your humanity, of your humankind, of your human Condition, are motivated, are stimulated. So, yeah, touching, for example, the artworks is something possible. In the novel, there is a moment when Mona feels like touching a beautiful painting by Thomas Gainsborough. And of course, there is the alarm which is triggered. Yeah. When I am in front of a painting, sometimes. Sometimes I feel like touching them. But don't do it at the Art Institute of Chicago.
- [18:57]
C
I know, but there was. I was in front of one of the Van Goghs that have, like, the thickness and they're so shiny and the. Oh, it was so tempting. Mona and all. Anyone who reads the book are mesmerized by Henri's descriptions of the art. One paragraph, so clear and concise about the history of the artist, and it was brilliant. Is that something that you ever require your students to learn? Is there a course that you teach? Yeah, I want to take it.
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B
Yeah.
- [19:35]
C
Yeah.
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B
One of my big requests with them, one, I would say one of the rules this is I want them to be able to put words on things, you know, to make something which is visible, to make it readable. And, yeah, for me, that's very, very important. So it means that when you are in front of a work of art, you need to stimulate your vocabulary. But as you can imagine, writing all those passages was extremely challenging for me. And sometimes that was really, really horrible. But I have to add that I was motivated by one goal, because this book is about blindness. I wanted it to be accessible by people who should be. Who could be visually impaired. And so when I was writing those descriptions of the paintings, the photographs, the sculptures, I kept in mind blind people would be involved in this novel. And that was really important for me.
- [21:16]
C
Ah, that was. It was wonderful. We don't learn a lot about Camille, Mona's mother, but we see Paul, her father, struggling with alcohol and trying to succeed as the owner of a shop. Can you say a bit about Mona's parents?
- [21:30]
B
Yeah, of course. They are very, very important and very moving characters in the novel. Once again, they are not fully inspired by my own experience. But of course, the problems of alcoholism, for example, are very, very often present in the society, and I know them. That was very interesting to have this aspect in the novel, because the father of Mona is someone who is a bit weak in comparison with the grandfather, but is extremely moving. He's a good father, even if he's the victim of a lot of weakness. And the mother of Mona is very strong. The. Her life is not very, very easy, but she's strong and she's dynamic and she's full of convictions and one of the aspect of the mother of Mona is that she's not really relaxed, not very comfortable with her own father, with Henri. The relationship is better between Mona and Henri than between a mother and Henri. And this is something I have very often pointed out in my life. The relationship between little children and grandparents is sometimes really better than the relationship between children and their parents.
- [23:15]
C
So Mona was three when her grandmother died. And if there's a mystery in the book, which I loved, it's about the grandmother because Mona remembers her even though she was young. And Mona has her necklace. That's very important. Can you say a bit about the grandmother and the necklace that Mona wears?
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B
Yeah, of course. First of all, my grandmother was extremely important for me when I was a child. So in a way, Mona is a tribute to memory. And the necklace is simply a kind of materialization of the secret link and the love there is in a family. Even if there are very often a lot of dramas of trials in the families. I think that sometimes there is a beautiful energy, even if people are not here anymore. And so this necklace, this is a kind of link between Earth and paradise.
- [24:42]
C
So, Thomas, I wish you such success with this book here in America. And I'm wondering if you're. What are you working on next?
- [24:52]
B
This is very funny because you mentioned Marie Cassatt during this interview. I am now writing monography on Mary Cassatt with a fascinating impressionist artist. I know that she's very, very famous in the United States and that there are so many beautiful essays on, but I will try to add my contribution about Hub.
- [25:20]
C
So if you decide to come to Chicago to see her pieces in our museum.
- [25:24]
B
Yeah, of course.
- [25:25]
C
Give you a tour.
- [25:26]
B
Yeah.
- [25:26]
C
Or you could give me a tour. Since you're the art historian. Much luck in spreading news of your book and in your career. Thank you for joining me.
- [25:35]
B
Thank you very much.
- [25:37]
C
And thank you for joining me again. This is G.P. gottlieb, author of the Whipton Sipped Mystery series and host for New Books and Literature, a podcast channel on the New Books Network. Today, I've been talking to Thomas Schlesser about his extraordinary novel, Mona's Eyes. Hope you all have something extraordinary to read today. And always happy reading. Foreign.
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A
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