Podcast Summary: New Books Network — "Bad Dust: A History of the Asbestos Disaster"

Guest: Tom White
Host: Dr. Miranda Belcher
Date: November 23, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. Miranda Belcher interviews Tom White about his book Bad Dust: A History of the Asbestos Disaster (Repeater, 2025). Their discussion explores the rise, proliferation, and consequences of asbestos use, focusing on Britain’s unique historical context while branching into global implications, especially the central role of South Africa and the enduring public health legacy. White’s personal motivation—rooted in his grandfather’s death from asbestos-related cancer—frames a deeply researched, urgent discussion about industry, cover-ups, activism, and the challenges that persist long after the substance was banned.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tom White’s Personal Motivation

• Personal Connection: White’s grandfather, a carpenter, died from an asbestos-related cancer (mesothelioma) after exposure in the 1950s. This experience led White to investigate asbestos’s pervasive harm.

  “I remember… intuitively understanding that something really sort of awful and tragic had happened. And then when I was a bit older, I spoke to my parents… it was this thing called asbestos that had killed him.” — Tom White (03:16)

2. What is Asbestos? What Makes It Dangerous? (04:12–07:46)

• Misconceptions: Many believe asbestos is man-made, but it’s a naturally occurring set of minerals (main types: chrysotile/white, amosite/brown, crocidolite/blue).

• Properties: Its “fabric-like” nature (long strands that can be spun or mixed) makes it versatile in manufacturing, but this structure allows it to fragment into tiny, invisible fibers.

• Health Risks: When airborne, these fibers are easily inhaled and remain in the lungs, leading to chronic and deadly conditions.

  “Asbestos is a kind of amazing material. Its… properties are very, very weird… It’s a mineral, but it’s also kind of fabric-like.” — Tom White (05:29)

  “Whenever you sort of use asbestos or whenever it’s kind of disturbed, it produces all of these kind of unseen fibres that… can float in the air and then if they’re inhaled… they just sort of glide down into your lungs and the body… can’t metabolize them, so they sort of stay there.” — Tom White (07:02)

3. The Industrial Rise of Asbestos (08:08–14:43)

• Industrial Revolution: Asbestos’ use skyrocketed during the 19th century due to demand for insulation, especially in steam engines.

• Global Industry: Initial mining in Italy, but a turning point came with major discoveries in Quebec, Canada, and, crucially, South Africa.

• British Context: The UK’s "asbestos disaster" cannot be separated from imperial trade, especially imports from South Africa. South African mining (especially of more dangerous blue and brown asbestos) became central, fueled by cheap labor under apartheid.

  “A lot of the, you know, the majority of the asbestos that’s used in Britain comes from South Africa.” — Tom White (10:27)

  “The profitability is completely reliant on this… imperial domination of the south of Africa, and then after that, the apartheid government…” — Tom White (12:58)

4. Ubiquity and “Magic Mineral” Myth (14:43–17:15)

• Product Uses: Asbestos found in insulation, cement, corrugated roofs, water pipes, and especially public infrastructure after WWII (schools, hospitals, housing).

• Industry Narrative: Marketed as “the magic mineral”—a miracle product with supposedly no drawbacks.

  “...positioning asbestos as this kind of miracle material... this is why asbestos is so prevalent in Britain, particularly in what we think of as like the public realm.” — Tom White (16:45)

5. Early and Persistent Knowledge of Harm (17:15–22:41)

• 1880s–1890s: Factory inspectors already noted high death rates and dangerous conditions.

• Key Medical Moments:

  • 1924: Death of Nellie Kershaw; doctor coins “asbestosis.”
  • 1930s–50s: Industry realizes asbestos is a carcinogen (lung cancer).
  • 1950s–60s: Link to mesothelioma found—an aggressive cancer, sometimes from very brief exposure.

  “If you start working in an asbestos factory when you’re in your mid to late teens, you’re probably doing quite well if you reach your kind of mid-30s.” — Tom White (17:38)

  “Mesothelioma… can be caused by really brief, you know, fleeting exposure to asbestos… That has obvious implications for the kind of environmental and infrastructural understanding of massive asbestos use.” — Tom White (20:43)

6. Failure of Political Action & The Industry Playbook (22:41–27:44)

• Resistance to Regulation: The asbestos industry, linked to the British elite and defense sector, actively suppressed evidence and created doubt.

• PR Strategy: Creation of industry-sponsored “research councils” to mimic independent oversight, a strategy borrowed from Big Tobacco.

• Labor Movement’s Role: Trade unions sometimes settled for “danger money” rather than pushing for a ban.

• Activism: The real momentum came from independent union branches and figures like Nancy Tate, whose advocacy stemmed from personal loss.

  “The playbook that they are following is a playbook that had been developed by the tobacco industry... which is basically like, you know, you can’t prove that asbestos is safe because it isn’t. But what you can do is… create doubt…” — Tom White (24:18)

7. Banning Asbestos: Triumphs and Tragedies (27:44–31:08)

• Persistent Organizing: Decades of activism eventually led to the 1999 UK ban—delayed by political maneuvering (especially New Labour’s sensitivities about Canadian trade and EU law changes).

• Hollow Victory: Ban made asbestos fade from public consciousness, and the government failed to plan for the removal or management of legacy asbestos in public buildings.

  “When you ban something, it kind of has this effect of making people think that the problem is solved… But really this is a moment when the British state could have really reckoned with this kind of long history of asbestos…” — Tom White (29:19)

8. Persistent Healthcare and Compensation Failures (31:08–33:21)

• Medical Care Remains Poor: NHS investment limited; specialist cancer care for mesothelioma lagging (described as “dark ages” by campaigner Laurie Kazan Allen).
• Compensation Battles: Insurance companies, facing huge payouts, aggressively sought to deny claims or limit liability.

9. Asbestos in Contemporary Britain: A Crisis Unresolved (33:21–38:17)

• Continued Risk: Many public buildings (especially schools, hospitals) still contain asbestos being disturbed due to aging infrastructure and austerity-driven maintenance backlogs.

• Policy Stagnation: Rather than a removal plan, the UK relies on “management in situ”—keeping track of asbestos and leaving it alone if undisturbed.

• Advocacy and Examples: Other countries, like Australia, now have dedicated agencies for removal; campaigners want Britain to follow suit. The risk to children in schools is especially urgent.

  “If you’re exposed to asbestos fibres at the age of five… your chance of contracting mesothelioma is five times higher than if you’re first exposed when you’re 30.” — Tom White (37:09)

  “There’s a real disconnect between… what we need to do and the actual… political will to do it.” — Tom White (36:23)

10. Looking Forward: The Role of Public Awareness & Scholarship (38:17–39:24)

• White’s Future Work: Hopes to continue writing about asbestos, especially examining Australia’s approach. Also working on a social history of the Humber Bridge.

• Need for Ongoing Advocacy: Books and public discussions are vital to keeping asbestos risks in the public eye and shaping policy.

  “I plan to keep on writing about asbestos… I would like to… write something in detail about the Australian asbestos removal plan and how… that could be sort of replicated in Britain.” — Tom White (38:26)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Thrall of “Magic Mineral”:
  “This is a period where we get asbestos being framed as what's called the magic mineral… this amazing, amazing substance with no drawbacks whatsoever.” — Tom White (16:31)

• On Industry Cover-up:
  “They were very good at covering things up, but I think basically they had also realized at this point that asbestos is a carcinogen…” — Tom White (19:03)

• On Political and Policy Failure:
  "There’s a real consensus among experts and campaigners that… a coordinated asbestos removal plan… needs to happen. The current regulations… [are a] policy of management in situ… I've said in the past that that's kind of bad in practice and bad in theory and kind of even worse in practice…” — Tom White (35:42)

Key Timestamps

• Personal Motivation and Book Origin: 02:35–03:48
• What is Asbestos & Why It's Dangerous: 04:12–07:46
• Industrial History (UK, South Africa, Empire): 08:08–14:43
• Asbestos in Public Infrastructure: 14:43–17:15
• Early Medical Evidence & Industry Coverup: 17:15–22:41
• Activism, PR, and Delay of Regulation: 22:41–27:44
• Ban & Its Shortfalls: 27:44–31:08
• World After the Ban—Healthcare & Compensation: 31:08–33:21
• Ongoing Crisis & Call for Action: 33:21–38:17
• Future Work and Closing Thoughts: 38:17–39:24

Conclusion

Tom White’s Bad Dust and this podcast conversation shed light on how a so-called miracle material became a slow, persistent disaster—through scientific neglect, exploitation, imperialism, and deliberate cover-up. While Britain eventually banned asbestos, the unresolved legacy surrounds generations living and working in buildings built during asbestos's heyday. White’s hope is for his scholarship and activism to drive the urgent action and reckoning that history, and public health, demand.