Podcast Summary: New Books Network

Episode: Trends in Kidlit – A Discussion with Harold Underdown

Host: Mel Rosenberg
Guest: Harold Underdown
Date: October 12, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth discussion between host Mel Rosenberg and renowned children's book editor Harold Underdown, focusing on the evolving landscape of children’s literature ("kidlit"). The conversation touches upon trends and shifts in the kidlit market, the perennial tension between writing for oneself versus writing for the marketplace, and the practical realities of breaking into and thriving in children's publishing. Additionally, the episode provides a peek into Harold and Mel’s collaborative editing process and offers advice for aspiring authors.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introducing Harold Underdown and the Context of the Discussion

• [02:07-05:03]
• Mel welcomes Harold Underdown warmly, noting their five-year mentorship and friendship.
• Mel situates the podcast against the backdrop of significant historical and personal context, highlighting the importance of community and purpose in challenging times.

2. Preview of Harold’s Upcoming Workshop

• [05:03-07:34]

• Harold introduces the theme of his upcoming seminar: “Trends, Market Shifts, and Opportunities.”

• Emphasizes that understanding trends isn’t just about knowing what's "up" or "down" in genres, but about seeing the larger shifts in the industry.

  "I don't just want to talk about...what's up in picture books and what's down in middle grade novels... There's a lot of other things going on in publishing and in children's books in particular." — Harold Underdown [05:40]

• Workshop breakdown:

  • How to interpret trends and market shifts
  • Advice on finding and assessing information sources
  • Seeing into the future of the business through data and resources

3. Audience of the Workshop—and Who Kidlit Advice Is For

• [08:01-08:54]

• Harold clarifies he speaks to all levels: from beginners to seasoned authors, from picture books to YA.

  "It's really a big overview. So it's not just targeted at one particular kind of writer. It's everyone from beginner to the experienced." — Harold Underdown [08:16]

4. The Quandary: Write for Yourself, or the Market?

• [08:54-12:52]

• Mel invokes the age-old struggle: Should writers chase trends or write from the heart?

• Harold’s nuanced take: Writers must be aware of the market, but authenticity is critical.

  "You need to write what only you can write. That...is the expression of you as an individual that is different from everybody else, and that is what is going to stand out." — Harold Underdown [11:08]

• They share stories about the pitfalls of chasing trends too literally (e.g., drafting a biography manuscript purely because an agent once mentioned the topic).

5. Understanding the Evolution of Kidlit Categories

• [12:58-15:38]

• Harold explains key historical shifts: e.g., the 1960s saw the birth of "young adult" as a distinct library category, largely thanks to authors like Judy Blume.

• Emphasizes that knowing the history of the business is essential to understanding its present and future.

  "...before the 1960s, young adult books didn't exist as a category... And that happened then, but it's had consequences that continue to flow forward to today." — Harold Underdown [13:24]

• Mentions technological evolution (rise of personal computers, the internet, and now AI) and how these global and American trends have impacted publishing.

6. The Role (and Limits) of Editorial Mentorship

• [16:45-28:44]

• Mel and Harold recount the origins and evolution of their working relationship, offering practical lessons for other authors:

  • Harold typically provides written feedback on manuscripts, but their process evolved into live, read-aloud editorial sessions, especially apt for picture books.
  • The collaborative method highlighted the importance of hearing text read out loud.

  "What we do...we would do essentially close readings of your manuscripts...I would read your manuscript, the latest draft, out loud...and then at the end of it having a further conversation." — Harold Underdown [19:51]

• Mel describes the value in seeing Harold’s facial reactions during readings and adjusting drafts in real-time.

7. Editorial Process and What Makes a Manuscript

• [21:58-29:35]

• Harold breaks down his editorial process: it’s as much about emotional reaction as intellectual critique.

  • Editors, like all readers, bring their personal experience and emotions—this first, then analysis.

  "...when they're first reading something, they are responding to it. They are making meaning between themselves and the text, and they're bringing their past history, their personal experiences, their feelings..." — Harold Underdown [21:58]

• On manuscript readiness: an editor looks for promise. Sometimes it’s a "kernel," sometimes a fully formed concept; not every draft should be pursued to publication.

• Importance of matching manuscripts to one's core identity as a writer.

• The necessity of a “manuscript graveyard” for those that don’t quite make it.

  "Part of the process for a picture book writer...is learning how to identify the ones that are worth going all the way with and when...to set it aside." — Harold Underdown [30:48]

8. Perseverance, Accountability, and Community

• [31:13-35:56]

• Mel discusses how regular meetings with Harold provided steady motivation, deadlines, and feedback (“a lighthouse”).

• Harold stresses the importance of critique partners and writing buddies for writers who don’t have a personal editor.

  "Writers should definitely look for...structure. Not necessarily like a weekly deadline, but, you know, maybe monthly or whatever works for them so that there's something they're writing towards and that helps them keep going." — Harold Underdown [33:56]

• Good mentorship is honest: Mel appreciates that Harold doesn’t blindly praise work, but pushes for continual improvement.

9. The Realities of Breaking Into Kidlit

• [36:13-46:48]

• The emotionally tough road toward publication—rejections, waiting, and serendipity—emphasized by both Mel and Harold.

• Maintaining satisfaction and enjoyment in the process—more than just “fun,” something deeper and more resilient.

• Contests, connections at conferences, and other “lucky breaks” are often part of a personalized and sometimes circuitous path to publication.

  "If you keep working at it, opportunities appear, connections happen, real connections happen. And luck happens...but luck to happen...only...is only going to work if you're ready for it..." — Harold Underdown [39:12]

• Mel notes, “to beat the odds, you need to be odd”—embrace what makes your manuscript distinctive.

  "...the one in a thousand, the one in three thousand, there's always a story. It's either the manuscript is this or the author is this, or you went to a meeting, or to beat the odds, you need to be odd." — Mel Rosenberg [41:22]

10. Hard Numbers, Queries, Contests, and Finding Agents

• [41:44-44:58]

• Harold reports that many successful agent relationships begin with traditional queries, but personal connections (from conferences, etc.) increase success.

• "Slush pile" successes are often not random: they're typically the result of smart targeting and personal touches in query letters.

  "There's an enormous difference between sending out 14 queries...and sending out a query to someone who, you know, you've heard them speak at a conference, you've read their interview..." — Harold Underdown [43:46]

11. The Enduring Need for Hope, Perseverance, and Community Generosity

• [46:48-end]

• Both reflect on the need for readiness, perseverance, and generosity within the kidlit community.

• Mel praises Harold’s integrity and careful mentorship, urging listeners to leverage community and trends, but always “trust your kishkas” (gut instincts).

  "It's important to know these trends, it's important to know what's happening. But the end of the way you have to trust your kishkas." — Mel Rosenberg [48:21]

• Harold reiterates the importance of authenticity and perseverance, and they close with well-wishes for peace and community strength in challenging times.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• "You need to write what only you can write."
  — Harold Underdown [11:08]

• "Part of the process for a picture book writer...is learning how to identify the ones that are worth going all the way with and when...to set it aside."
  — Harold Underdown [30:48]

• "To beat the odds, you need to be odd."
  — Mel Rosenberg [41:22]

• "If you keep working at it, opportunities appear, connections happen, real connections happen. And luck happens...but luck to happen...only...is only going to work if you're ready for it..."
  — Harold Underdown [39:12]

• "It's important to know these trends, it's important to know what's happening. But the end of the way you have to trust your kishkas."
  — Mel Rosenberg [48:21]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [05:40] – Harold outlines the four subtopics of his workshop
• [10:21] – The writing for the marketplace vs. writing from the heart quandary
• [13:24] – Key historical shift: the emergence of YA as a category
• [19:51] – The unique live editorial process Mel and Harold developed
• [30:48] – On letting go of manuscripts and the value of discernment
• [39:12] – Luck, perseverance, and readiness in publishing success
• [41:22] – The importance of "oddness"—making work distinctive
• [43:46] – The importance of queries with personal touches
• [48:21] – Closing advice: trust your instincts (“kishkas”)

Final Thoughts

This conversation paints an encouraging but candid picture of the children’s literature landscape. Aspiring and seasoned writers alike will find wisdom about balancing market awareness with authenticity, the value of strategic persistence, and the sustaining power of mentorship and community. The dynamic between Mel and Harold is warm, witty, and full of practical, actionable advice—reminding the listener that joy in the process is as important as the ultimate goal of publication.