Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network — Italian Studies Channel
Episode Title: Tullia d'Aragona, "The Wretch, Otherwise Known As Guerrino" (Iter Press, 2024)
Date: December 15, 2025
Host: Kate Driscoll
Guests: Julia Harston and John McLucas
Theme:
A deep dive into the new bilingual edition and translation of Tullia d'Aragona’s epic poem The Wretch, Otherwise Known As Guerrino, recently published by Iter Press. The episode explores the literary, historical, and cultural significance of this 16th-century work, its place in the epic tradition, the challenges of translation, and Tullia’s importance as a trailblazing woman writer.

Main Discussion Points and Insights

1. Discovering and Researching Tullia d'Aragona

[02:19 – 05:40]

• Julia Harston’s Journey:

  • Began with a 1998 conference on Women in Papal Rome, searching for a prominent female figure connected to Rome in the 16th century.
  • Chose Tullia over the more widely recognized Vittoria Colonna due to a personal draw to her life and work.
  • Emphasizes the importance (and challenge) of archival research and credits significant collaborations and archival tips from scholars Philippa Jackson and Marcelo Simonetta.

• John McLucas’s Background:

  • Came from a classical background, with deep study in Latin and narrative poetry, especially Ariosto’s Orlando Furioso.
  • Notes the scarcity of early female authors in Italian literary history.
  • The Tullia project fit both his interest in epic and in women’s writing, only just emerging as a field in Italian studies in the 1970s-80s.

2. Genre Context: Tullia’s Move into Epic

[08:28 – 15:11]

• Historical Significance:

  • Tullia d'Aragona is best known for her philosophy (Dialogue on the Infinity of Love) and lyric poetry, with her move into epic being highly unusual for women of her time.
  • The decision appears to coincide with the death of her benefactor Filippo Strozzi in 1537, a turning point that saw her increase her public literary activity.

• Support and Resources:

  • Evidence suggests Tullia sought and may have received financial support from influential figures (e.g., the Farnese family) to enable dedicated time for writing.
  • Her epic commentary is engaged with the major literary debates of the day (especially those regarding Ariosto’s Orlando Furioso) and the translation of Aristotle’s Poetics into Italian.

3. Translation Approach and Challenges

[16:22 – 22:35]

• John McLucas’s Experience:

  • Describes the translation process as a “camino” (journey), prioritizing clarity in prose to make the story accessible to English readers.
  • Tullia’s style: Treatment of subject/object in Italian syntax and pronouns made direct intelligibility difficult, especially pre-critical editions of her sources.
  • Decision to do a bilingual edition allowed for reduction of explanatory notes and gave scholars direct access to Tullia's Italian alongside the English.

• Notable Insight:

  • “There were times when frankly...I am improving this book. A person can read this octave and understand the literal meaning much better than if they were reading the Italian, even with native Italian. And then you think, if I clarify, am I falsifying?”
    — John McLucas [18:13]

4. Plot and Thematic Richness

[23:36 – 35:26]

• Structure and Ambition:

  • The poem rivals Ariosto in length, stretching to 28,000 lines over 36 cantos.
  • Main hero Guerino undertakes epic travels, emblematic of displacement, self-discovery, and the search for belonging—traversing locations from Constantinople through India, Mecca, Ethiopia, and Ireland to the underworld.

• Treatment of Religiosity and Difference:

  • Guerino is noted as a “thoroughly religious hero,” sometimes unlikably so for always making the right (moral) choice—possibly reflective both of Tullia’s place in Counter-Reformation Italy and her own identity as a former courtesan.
  • Tullia directly grapples with sources, notably handling different biographies of Muhammad and condemning Islam—especially in relation to women, but also offers nuanced “comparativist” glances at customs and societies.

• Narrative Innovation:

  • Tullia innovates by deploying an omniscient third-person narrator (contrasting Andrea Barberino’s frequent switches to first person), maintaining tragic tone and gender oscillation in the narrative voice—systematically shifting between masculine and feminine across the 36 cantos.

    “Her narrator oscillates genders between being a male and being a female. And it is a systematic...it goes back and forth throughout the entire text, which is very interesting.” — Julia Harston [32:00]

    “Compared to our modern concept of what travel is for, he [Guerrino] does not change. The Guerino on page one is identical to the Guerrino on page million. And he doesn’t learn from the Muslims or develop sympathy for the giants.” — John McLucas [33:36]

5. Paratext: Tullia’s Address to Readers

[35:26 – 37:41]

• Tullia’s introduction is unusually direct, democratic, and aspirational in its vision of reading:

  "In reading, we can direct ourselves independently, following our own will entirely, whether alone, in company, briefly or at length, without expense, risk, harm or fatigue, and to our own full satisfaction and happiness...I am confident that I have produced for the world a book which will be very welcome on all sides, such as can be read with delight and usefulness by every kind of honorable and virtuous person." — (Tullia d'Aragona’s address, read by Kate Driscoll [35:26])

• This address forecasts a universal vision of readership, stressing pleasure, utility, and accessibility across gender and status.

6. Teaching and Reception: Then and Now

[37:41 – 44:31]

• Classroom Reflection:

  • John McLucas describes teaching segments of the Moschino at Towson University to undergraduates, often as an introduction to early female authorship and Renaissance literature. Students appreciated its declared themes and the novelty of female authorship.
  • Julia Harston has taught it mainly within the context of autobiography and women’s writing; she argues for full engagement with large texts (e.g., reading The Book of the Courtier in its entirety).

• Pioneering Impact:

  • Tullia is almost certainly the first woman to have written a work of this scale—“maybe the first in the world to sit down and write a book of this length.”
    — John McLucas [44:31]
  • Her immediate impact on successors (e.g., Moderata Fonte, 1581) is suggested but not fully documented, leaving fertile ground for future scholarship.

7. Future Directions and Research

[45:22 – 50:32]

• Julia Harston:

  • Planning an intellectual biography of Tullia, The Thorny Laurel: Tullia d'Aragona as Woman of Letters, and continues archival research, especially in Florence and Ferrara—areas still rich with unexplored materials.

• John McLucas:

  • Retired, not undertaking further formal research, but suggests fruitful areas for future scholars: the editorial history of the manuscript, textual discontinuities, and comparison with source texts.

“There are two noticeable discontinuities in the plot towards the end of the book...There might be clues that could be teased out of the existing text as to the ur text.”
— John McLucas [47:53]

• Final Recommendations:
  • Julia recommends John’s novels for those who enjoy his prose, with a lighthearted warning: “You have to be over 21 to read most of them!”
    — Julia Harston and John McLucas [50:32]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the rarity of women in 16th-century Italian literary lists:

  “We already noticed in 1976 that there was one female author, let's say one and a half prior to the late 19th century...Computa Donzella was on the list. But...many scholars thought that she was not a woman...”
  — John McLucas [05:53]

• On translation choices and compromises:

  "If I clarify, am I falsifying? Am I depriving the reader of the pleasure of deciphering the meaning with the tools which Tullia's first readers would have had?"
  — John McLucas [18:13]

• On gender-fluid narration:

  “Her narrator oscillates genders...And it goes back and forth throughout the entire text, which is very interesting.”
  — Julia Harston [32:00]

• On Guerino’s unchanging character:

  “Compared to our modern concept of what travel is for, he does not change. The Guerino on page one is identical to the Guerrino on page million.”
  — John McLucas [33:36]

• Tullia’s vision for all readers:

  "I am confident that I have produced for the world a book which will be very welcome on all sides, such as can be read with delight and usefulness by every kind of honorable and virtuous person.”
  — Tullia d'Aragona (translated and quoted by Kate Driscoll) [35:26]

• On Tullia’s trailblazing scope:

  “It’s not like, oh, well, there were 17 epics by women in Poland already, but she was the first in Italy. It’s like, no, she was maybe the first in the world to sit down and write a book of this length.”
  — John McLucas [44:31]

Key Timestamps

• 01:29-02:18 — Host and guests introductions
• 02:19-05:40 — Julia Harston’s discovery of Tullia
• 05:53-08:28 — John McLucas’s entry into the project and reflections on women in literary history
• 09:31-15:11 — Context of epic genre and Tullia’s pivot to epic
• 16:22-22:35 — Translating Tullia: strategy, innovations, bilingual edition
• 23:36-35:26 — Plot structure, themes of travel and difference, characterization of Guerino
• 35:26-37:41 — Tullia’s preface to readers and her vision of literary audience
• 37:41-44:31 — Teaching the poem: classroom experiences and impact
• 44:31-45:22 — Pioneering impact and comparative scale in women’s literature
• 46:18-50:32 — Future research: biography, archival work, lingering scholarly questions
• 50:32-51:00 — Closing, lighthearted recommendation of John’s novels

Concluding Notes

This vibrant episode underscores Tullia d’Aragona’s status as a literary pioneer—one who occupies a unique and understudied place in both early modern Italian literature and women’s literary history. Harston and McLucas’ new bilingual edition opens this challenging, rewarding text to students and scholars, illuminating Tullia’s skillful negotiation of epic form, gender, and cultural difference. The conversation closes with calls for further research, especially in archives, and hopes for a new generation of readers to continue turning on Tullia’s literary “light bulbs.”