Podcast Summary:

New Books Network – Walter Scott Peterson, "[M]y ‘case’ to work up’: William Carlos Williams’s Paterson"

Date: October 11, 2025
Host: Jeffrey Hurdle Jimera
Guests: Dr. Walter Scott Peterson (Retired Ophthalmologist, Williams Scholar), Dr. Wamsi Konuru (Psychiatrist, UConn)
Key Article Discussed: “My Case to Work Up: William Carlos Williams’s Paterson” (William Carlos Williams Review, Vol 41, No. 2, 2024)

Episode Overview

This episode explores the intersection of medicine and poetry through the life and work of William Carlos Williams—a physician-poet whose epic poem Paterson exemplifies the convergence of clinical method and artistic expression. Host Jeffrey Hurdle Jimera is joined by prominent Williams scholar and retired ophthalmologist Dr. Walter Scott Peterson, and Dr. Wamsi Konuru, a psychiatrist with expertise in trauma, mindfulness, and the role of arts in health. Together, they discuss how poetic sensibility informs medical practice, fosters empathy, and broadens our approach to healing and human connection. Peterson’s article serves as a starting point for a rich, interdisciplinary dialogue on narrative, language, medicine, and the power of listening.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Poetry and Medicine: Bridges, Not Boundaries

(03:31–06:17)

• Medical humanities unites arts and sciences to illuminate the emotional and ethical dimensions of healthcare.
• Williams’s dual role as physician and poet is emblematic of the “bridge” between these fields.
  • Memorable quote:
    • “These are a few thoughts I have from not exactly the other side, but rather from that bridge between.” (Peterson, 05:17)
• Peterson’s work draws on the idea that both poetry and medicine require deep attention, care, and a commitment to wholeness.

2. Williams’s Relational Approach: Deep Listening

(06:17–12:53)

• Williams viewed his tasks as “trying hard” to understand other people—paralleling the physician’s diagnostic work and the poet’s pursuit of meaning.
  • Key quote:
    • “I wanted to write a poem that you would understand. For what good is it to me if you can’t understand it? But you’ve got to try hard.” (Williams, read by Konuru, 06:50)
• Williams’s writing and medical care both focus on careful observation, openness to disorder (“it’s the disorganization that creates the order.” —Peterson, 09:14), and cultivating “connectedness.”
• The “workup” in medicine is likened to the process of reading and making sense of a poem: both gather details, search for meaning, and require trust and patience.

3. The Role of Language & Narrative in Clinical Care

(12:53–18:04)

• Medical communication isn’t just about precision—it’s holistic, gathering multiple strands of a story, much as poetry operates on many levels.
• Peterson shares a teaching method: taking students to the art museum to interpret paintings—mirroring the slow, attentive reading of poetry (16:20).
  • “You definitely don’t get those stories by just taking a quick look…”
• Both arts and medicine train us to get beyond the superficial, recognize multiple meanings (ambiguity), and embrace complexity in understanding others.

4. Language as Connection—Personal Stories from Clinical Practice

(19:30–25:01)

• Jimera shares a poignant cancer care anecdote, highlighting how doctors’ attentiveness to language (switching between Portuguese, English, and Spanish) fosters comfort and human connection (19:30–20:53).
• Peterson and Konuru agree: effort to connect linguistically, even imperfectly, builds trust and enables patients to open up.
  • “It didn’t matter that my Spanish was terrible… They knew I was trying and it made all the difference.” (Peterson, 20:53)

5. Poetry as Practice: Listening, Writing, and Vulnerability

(23:15–33:56)

• Reading poetry daily can “train the ear” to listen deeply—the same skill critical for clinicians.
  • Konuru encourages students: “Let go of [the drive to immediately understand]; reading poetry liberates us… to reread the patient’s story.” (24:36)
• Creative exercises, like rewriting Williams’s “This is Just to Say,” make poetry approachable and encourage self-expression—even for reluctant or non-literary students (25:51–26:23).
• Poetic writing is positioned as a way for medical practitioners to connect to and compose themselves.
  • “I write poetry to hear sounds I’ve never heard and to see things I’ve never seen.” (Franklin Sifre, student anecdote, 27:13)
• Both medical and literary arts require “giving of oneself and one’s gifts to others.” (Peterson, 28:52)

6. The “Energies” of Medicine, Poetry, and the Multiple Truths

(28:20–33:56)

• “The two [science and art] are necessary to each other…”
• Both medicine and poetry demand the capacity to hold multiple, even contradictory truths—a disposition essential for human understanding and healing.
  • “Being able to hold more than one truth at the same time… allows one to get to a deeper truth.” (Peterson, 30:18)

7. Humanities in Science and Medical Curricula

(31:06–47:42)

• The panel discusses the practicalities and value of integrating poetry/art into scientific and medical education.
  • Many universities have relaxed distribution requirements, but students often forge interdisciplinary paths on their own.
• Examples include bringing poetry into physics lectures (e.g., Williams’s poems about Madame Curie), encouraging multidisciplinary projects, and using arts-based analytical tools in medicine and sciences (43:10–45:22).
• Peterson’s own story: his training in English literature (poetry analysis) aided his practical and business skills as a clinician.

8. Poetry’s Role in Healing & Humanization

(35:37–51:42)

• Would Williams have “prescribed” the arts? Peterson notes Williams believed in poetry’s life-giving force, referencing:
  • “People die for want of news and that the news are found in poems and people die for want of what is found there.” (36:44)
• The arts are essential in rendering struggles less abnormal and more human, opening windows into other experiences (Konuru quoting Kay Redfield Jamison, 39:05).
• Arts education fosters deep listening and open-ended inquiry—core clinical skills.
  • Reflection on Williams’s “so much depends”—a model for patient-centered listening and withholding assumptions (Konuru, 50:38).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “These are a few thoughts I have from not exactly the other side, but rather from that bridge between.”
  — Walter Scott Peterson, (05:17)
• “That’s it. It’s the disorganization that creates the order.”
  — Peterson on Williams’s narrative style, (09:14)
• “You learn how to hear that language by reading a poem.”
  — Peterson, (23:45)
• “Let go of [trying to understand everything at once]. ... Liberates us in the room with patients… willingness to sit with uncertainty.”
  — Konuru, (24:36)
• “Being able to hold more than one truth in one’s hand at the same time…”
  — Peterson, (30:18)
• “People die for want of news and that the news are found in poems…”
  — Peterson quoting Williams, (36:44)
• “The arts really help to assist, at least in the humanizing of individuals and our relationships…”
  — Konuru, (39:05)
• “So much depends… helped me to begin thinking about the words that patients were using… to really, like, deeply listen and not try to assume that I know how they’re using it.”
  — Konuru, (50:38)

Key Timestamps & Segment Highlights

• 03:31 – Introduction to medical humanities and the episode’s central themes
• 05:17 – “The bridge between medicine and poetry”—Peterson’s formative insight
• 06:50 – “I wanted to write a poem that you would understand…”—relational poetry
• 09:14 – Disorganization as the generator of meaning
• 16:20 – Art museum as a site for teaching medical listening
• 19:30–20:53 – The healing power of linguistic and cultural attention in clinical encounters
• 23:45 – Poetic reading as training for clinical listening
• 24:36–25:01 – Liberation from immediate understanding—embracing uncertainty
• 27:13 – Students’ creative writing as self-discovery
• 28:52–31:06 – The “energy” of giving and the embrace of multiple truths
• 36:44 – Williams’s faith in the news within poems
• 39:05 – The humanities’ vital role in human understanding and mental health
• 43:10–45:22 – Incorporating arts and poetry in STEM curricula
• 50:38 – The open-endedness of Williams’s phrase “so much depends”

Episode Tone

Reflective, warm, scholarly, and deeply empathetic. The conversation is collegial and inspiring, blending careful close reading with personal stories and practical teaching examples. The participants model humility, curiosity, and a shared commitment to bridging the “two cultures” of science and art in pursuit of care and deeper understanding.

For New Listeners

This episode is a must-listen for medical professionals, educators, students, and poetry lovers interested in the medical humanities, narrative medicine, and the transformative role of art in both caregiver and patient experience.

Key takeaways:

• Medicine and poetry both demand close observation, openness to ambiguity, and a willingness to connect deeply with others.
• Poetry is not just a luxury or form of self-expression, but a powerful tool for training the sensibilities essential to healthcare: listening, patience, and empathy.
• Educational and clinical practice should “de-discipline” boundaries between arts and sciences, fostering holistic, humane, and creative professionals.