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- [00:00]
Marshall Po
Hello, everybody. This is Marshall Po. I'm the founder of the New Books Network, and if you're listening to this podcast on the New Books Network, I bet you like to read. I know that I do. That's why I founded the New Books Network. So as readers, we need to know what to read. And I have a podcast to recommend for you. That being the Proofread podcast, do you have a goal to read more this year? How about a goal to read more of what you love and less of what you don't? The Proofread podcast is here to help you. Hosted by Casey and Tyler, two English professors and avid readers with busy lives, Proofread helps you decide what books are worth spending your precious time on and what books aren't. They have 15 minute episodes that give you everything you need to know about a book to decide if you should read it or skip it. They offer a brief synopsis, there's fun and witty commentary, and there are no spoilers and no sponsored reviews. Life's too short to read a bad book, so subscribe to the Proofread podcast today. And by the way, there's a new season coming soon.
- [00:59]
Zeenith Khan
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- [01:14]
Khadija
So good, so good, so good.
- [01:17]
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- [01:43]
Marshall Po
Welcome to the New Books Network.
- [01:47]
Khadija
Hi, everyone. Welcome to the New Books Network podcast. Khadija here today I'm speaking with Zeenith Khan about her historical fiction novel, the Silence of September. The novel is set against the dramatic events that followed Hyderabad's invasion in 1948. It remembers one of the forgotten and painful histories of South Asia. Let us begin. Congratulations on the release of the Sirens of September. I would like to begin by asking about your journey. What were the experiences that shaped you as a writer?
- [02:23]
Zeenith Khan
Thank you, Katija. So, actually, I think I'll answer that question in reverse. My experiences in life shaped my writing and the characters. So for example, you know, the first, very first. My. The novel begins with Farishte getting her hair combed and brushed. Yeah, yeah. And I also, my father did not allow me to cut my hair. So I had very long hair as a young girl. And because I could, I. Because of the long hair, I wasn't much into playing sports and running around and all of that. So I spent a lot of time.
- [02:54]
Khadija
Reading exactly like Fereshti had done.
- [02:56]
Zeenith Khan
Yeah. So my. One of my sons actually said, it seems like you've made yourself 15 years old and put yourself in 1947. It's like that. So you know, like even like when we were growing up, how a mobi sab used to come and we used to just learn whatever the surahs and whatever were taught by them or the help would say, you know, pray this the cools if you get Nazar, you know, evil eye.
- [03:21]
Khadija
Yeah, that's so true. Yeah, I can totally relate with this. Yeah.
- [03:25]
Zeenith Khan
Yeah. So this is all like how we grew up. We didn't know much about religion. We just from what we were told. And those days, if you see like her parents, the fashionable people are not into teaching their kids religion. So you learned from your. The Quran teacher or your helpers or whatever, you know, and then, you know, being 15 and you know, when you first have a crush on somebody. So I bumped into someone whom I had a crush on at that age. So I kind of. That kind of jogged my memories, you know, how it felt. And even with my school girlfriends, I reconnected with them when I moved back to Hyderabad. And even now when we meet, we're all like that. We still have silly fights and dramas. And also that also I could kind of, you know, that all made me remember how it was to be that age. And I think General Edruss was the age that I am right now. So he had his middle age problems. So even though he was a man, I kind of, you know, that middle age kind of fatigue I kind of related to that also.
- [04:27]
Khadija
Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing this zenith. And what drew you to write about this Hyderabad and its erased past, Especially the events around Operation Polo. How difficult was it to work with such a painful history?
- [04:43]
Zeenith Khan
You know, I wouldn't say that history is personally painful because I didn't see it. I think a lot of like elders whose life were overturned. There's some people whom I've talked to who are in their like 70s, 80s, they actually remember the events as children. For me, it was still a bit of a Distance. But I just thought that the story just needed to be told because it was a very, it was a significant event in the history of the subcontinent, probably the most significant after Partition and nobody talks about it. And you know, Hyderabad as a state was as large as the United Kingdom. The Nizam was the richest man in the world. So it was, it was. India was very scared that they would break away. And other than what the India's annexation, there's also a loss of a way of life that happened and there was a particular sort of, they call it Ganga, Jamuni, Taziba and Hyderabad, it was Hindu and Muslim culture was intertwined. So that all became eroded.
- [05:45]
Khadija
I do hope that, you know, books like this will make it more into public and contribute to the public history narrative as such. Also your book is rich with historical texture as such. Tell us about the archival materials you work with and what guided your research process.
- [06:07]
Zeenith Khan
So I have, I referred to old newspapers from the years 1946-48 and I lived in Bombay when I was doing my research. So I went to the Maharashtra State Archives and I went to the Asiatic Library and I referred to biographies and memoirs. General Prime Minister, like Ali's memoir, first person narratives, family stories that have been passed down, YouTube videos and books and movies set in the 1940s. It helped to get an idea of how, you know, like small details of that period because a lot of World War II theme movies and I've gone and checked out like I've gone to vintage cars, car rallies to go and see what the cars were like. And I research into what kind of airplanes they use, passenger airplanes and the Air Force ones and even the like finer points like crockery, decor, upholstery, all of that. And there's even one mention of how the stocks are performing and Darius says that the hotels and soap are doing very well after the war. Stocks for hotel chains and soap. Procter and Gamble did very well after selling soap to soldiers during World War II. So that all I got from books from that period, this one is called the Raj at War. There are many books that I refer to.
- [07:31]
Khadija
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing the extensive archival research done for the book. Also the monograph kind of unfolds into two distinct parts. The world of aristocratic everyday life. And then comes the story of Hyderabad's annexation. What shaped this structure?
- [07:50]
Zeenith Khan
Yeah, they were both running parallels. So in the beginning they were partying and enjoying life and they didn't. The, these aristocrats were short sighted in that they didn't see that their Days were, you know, that kind of lifestyle were numbered. So as India was preparing for independence and they were also restless to amalgamate all the princely states. So it was kind of like India's independence also meant the loss of Hyderabad sovereignty. So it was kind of parallel. And loss of Hyderabad sovereignty meant the end of this aristocratic lifestyle that they were used to. So it was a kind of contrast.
- [08:28]
Khadija
Yeah, exactly. Also, thank you so much for giving us a good historical backdrop for the discussion as well. Now, let us talk about the three central characters. I want to begin with my favorite. Who is Ferishte for readers? She will always be that young girl standing by the windows of Kushnuma, her home as Hyderabad was invaded. How do you see her, the central protagonist, as such?
- [08:59]
Zeenith Khan
You know, I don't see Farishte actually at the time of the invasion, with her covering her years from the sirens, actually still see her as a pampered young girl who has somebody to help her with her hair and get dressed up and her head is in books and she lives in this palatial house. And yeah, she's observant and she listens to people. She knows what's going on. Very perceptive, intelligent young girl. That's how I see her.
- [09:26]
Khadija
Yeah. Also now I would like to move to Salam Al Idrus. Sorry, Salim Al Idroz. I could still feel the pain in me when I realized he lost his life while in the Air Force. If he were alive today, what do you imagine his life might look like? You know, more like a speculative thing.
- [09:50]
Zeenith Khan
The Salim would have been over hundred. So right now, if he was still alive. So he might not. You know, he might. He lived at the age of 70 or 80, like a, you know, a good long life. And he. He was extremely bright. So he probably would have become like Air Force chief of Pakistan, I think, if. And he would have led a very successful life.
- [10:15]
Khadija
Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that as well. Also, people who are familiar with Hyderabad's history might have encountered General El Idrous through that Wikipedia photograph. A stern figure with his aviators facing Major General Chowdhury during the partition of Hyderabad. His memoir, Hyderabad of the Seven Laws, also offers one perspective about the entire process of annexation as such. But your book sort of reveals multiple layers to him. Those that are emotional, personal and professional. How did you approach portraying a nuanced character like General El Idrus?
- [10:59]
Zeenith Khan
Yeah, that's. You know, I actually felt that I was somehow connected to General Edrus. You know, even though he's in his grave now, I just felt connected to him because I used to like dream about him, trying to imagine, trying to fill in the gaps because we don't know that much other than what is in his memoir and just the human side of him. Because in Hyderabad he is blamed for the whole debacle. Even though I, I believe the Nizam is more to blame than General Azus because General Ed Zeus really was not in a very comfortable position. So you know what he would have gone through, you know, from being a war hero, from being the Nizam's blue eyed boy, to falling from grace, to losing his son in tragic circumstances. So that's why I wrote that article. His life follows the character arc of a Greek hero. You know, high born, accomplished, but he was arrogant in a way that he also, you know, didn't see this coming. I think they all deluded themselves. They should have been better prepared that this was going to happen.
- [12:02]
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- [12:30]
Khadija
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- [12:35]
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- [12:42]
Zeenith Khan
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- [12:46]
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- [12:53]
Zeenith Khan
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- [12:54]
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- [13:16]
Khadija
I'm sure it might not have been an easy task to remember and recollect a character like idru's. You know, whose archival records are quite scarce even even within institutional spaces.
- [13:29]
Zeenith Khan
As such his grandson gave me a lot of information about Salim Idrus and you know that where like they I believe he sent his where he sent his sons to school. They went to Bishop Cotton in Bangalore. Then they went to the military academy in Dehradun. So all this information I got from his son. Grandson, Sorry, General Zeus's grandson.
- [13:51]
Khadija
Thank you so much for sharing that. And I'll also attach the link to the Scrawl article written by Zenith previously, which might be really helpful for our listeners as well.
- [14:02]
Zeenith Khan
Okay.
- [14:02]
Khadija
Also, another central character of the novel is Darius Farohar. Yeah, I feel like he sort of epitomizes the turbulence and uncertainty Hyderabad as a nation state was undergoing. Can you talk a bit about Darius to our listeners?
- [14:21]
Zeenith Khan
So Darius was sort of proved like a counter to the other character. He was. He had nothing to do with Hyderabad as such other than fleeting visits. And he was Zoroastrian. And whereas Farishte and General Eduz were the insiders, Darius offered an outsider point of view. And if you see, he's the only adult in the novel who was really pragmatic. Even in his personal life, he was pragmatic. He might have seemed wicked, but he never fooled anyone. And he was the one who eventually came to the family's aid because nobody else did. Nobody else was in a position to have. And in those days in the 1940s, the Parsis community were the. After the British gave them a lot of favors. So they were the wealthiest industrialists to start with. So he was a person who had power. And someone actually asked me, why don't you have a Telugu character in the book? But you know the Telugu in Hyderabad who are loyal to the Nizam, they face the same fate as the Muslim families. So they could not have been in a position to help the family when the times change because they themselves had to lie low for being in favor with an Islam.
- [15:37]
Khadija
Yeah. Thank you so much especially for talking about Darius and also bringing the Telugu perspective of what exactly happened during the annexation as such. I remember reading somewhere that it was more of a class issue rather than a religious issue.
- [15:56]
Zeenith Khan
Exactly, exactly. Yeah. All the privileged people, the Nizam's rule suited them. The Zamindars, the Rajas, the Samastans, they were all in favor with the Nizam.
- [16:07]
Khadija
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing that as well, Zeenat. Also, homes play a crucial role in your narrative. There are homes like Kushnuma, Pegasus, the Dods and even the King Kotti palace feature almost as characters themselves. What do these spaces represent?
- [16:29]
Zeenith Khan
So Kushnama actually was the name of my childhood home in Punjara Hills. It was built in the 80s, but we had the house from the early 80s to 2018. That's where I grew up. And I just named Farishte's house in Banjara Hills, Kushnama. So for me it symbolizes a place of comfort, a place of childhood. And eventually Farishte's life was overturned. You know, her father was arrested, she had to, she found out about her mother secret and yeah, so that Kushtuma to me was a place of style, comfort and security basically. Whereas Pegasus still stands today, there's a family who lives there and it's still almost in the original condition. It was built so well by a German architect that it still stands. And for me that's a symbol of power and also a symbol of the sort of transience of life or the uncertainty of life because the general went from living in that mansion which had a ballroom to living in one room at the end use living in one room at the Bangalore Club. So the theories are more the old Hyderabad style, the rambling homes. They represent the syncretic blend of Decani culture. You know, the old style parties, the dance girls, the dud ka sharbat. That's what I imagine in those kind of homes. And Kinkotli palace was where the Nizam lived. And for me that is a place of intrigue and deception and secrets. I think every wall there must have been plotting and scheming happening because Nizam had all these. He was always paranoid that people are listening on his conversations. Then he had a harem with I don't know how many women were there and they had, you know, what eunuchs used to call them in those days guiding them. They had African guards. So imagine the intrigue over there. So that's what King Koti palace would mean. I would imagine that to be.
- [18:39]
Khadija
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing that as well. Also the title Sirens of September is quite evocative. The book carries so many sounds, radio announcements, trumpets, bands and even Hyderabad's national anthem. Why sirens and what does sound allow you to evoke in this history?
- [19:03]
Zeenith Khan
So sirens, you know how I got the title of sirens? I spoke to a gentleman who's now about 80 years old, he was a child at the time of the invasion and he said on the morning of September 13, 1948 they were woke up morning, meaning pre dawn hours. They woke up the sound of sirens being sounded and that there was a total blackout in the city. So when the sirens were sounded they knew that India had invaded. So that's why I named the book the Sirens of September and the other sounds also. It's a very pertinent question that you raised because the other sounds sort of helped me create the mood of that Time, you know, the Radio Agasty, that was their source of news other than newspapers, the bands being played at parties. And in those days the Nizam had called an Englishman Chyderabad in the end of 1946 to tutor his grandsons. So he went to a party and they, I believe the Aristocrats, they had a party and There was a 60 piece, a string orchestra playing. Yeah, I'm.
- [20:06]
Khadija
I mean it may not have been an easy task to you know, write about sounds as well. Can you talk about that as well? A bit. You know, because sound is some sounds.
- [20:18]
Zeenith Khan
Yeah. You know I didn't realize it was so focused, my book was so focused on sounds other than what you. Other than when you pointed it out. Because I mentioned the trumpet of Doomsday. That's what Farishte refers to the sirens when she hears them. And you know we believe that on Doomsday we'll be. A trumpet will be sounded. Right? Yeah, yeah. And then the music at parties. There were several parties that I mentioned. At her birthday party I learned from a lady who's 90 years old now. She's a Rajkumari from the Benrajgir family. She said at her childhood birthday parties her father used to call a police band and then they used to listen to music on a gramophone. Then Farishte has the. She learns how to type. So then there's the clacking of the typewriter keys and then there's a tele. Typewriter that makes a sound when it's typing out messages. So yeah, a lot of sounds. Bullets. Bullets also.
- [21:19]
Khadija
Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for speaking about that as well Zeenath. Also another theme is that you know, a sense of longing. Longing runs through the book. There's a deep sense of a past that cannot be fully recovered from where you stand today. How do you look back at Hyderabad's past? For example? I simply couldn't believe that you know, in those days you could one seek Hinderbad Cantonment, lights just by standing from Banjara Hills or you know, how Husseini Alam is portrayed in your book and how different it is today. So can you just, you know, look back at Hyderabad's past?
- [22:01]
Zeenith Khan
You know I'm so glad you brought up this point Khadija because you know, to read about these events in like as facts you don't feel any emotion. You know, you just read them as facts and then you just get on with it. But I tried very best to evoke a sense of longing and nostalgia in my readers so that they would Remember it. So whoever has read the book, they felt sad that Salim and Farishte's love story didn't work out. And it. And the exact sense was a sense of longing. But that was, I think, that human beings, we actually, even though we chase happiness, we get a strange, strange kind of satisfaction from feeling sad. So if all the book had been rosy and happy and cheerful, I don't think I would have had the same effect on readers.
- [22:52]
Khadija
Yeah, that's true. So before we end our conversation, I want to look ahead. What are your future plans? Are there any new projects that you are excited about, you know, after the.
- [23:05]
Zeenith Khan
Book has been published? I've had some suggestions that I write a sequel. And because people are keen to know what happened to Farishte in her adult life, one of my friends, a writer friend, said that, you know, 27 isn't that, you know, the book ends when she's 27, and that's not a great age. She still had a whole life to live. What happened? What did she do with her life after that?
- [23:28]
Khadija
Yeah, that's true. So can we expect a part 2?
- [23:32]
Zeenith Khan
Let's see if anybody is willing to publish it. Yeah, sure. I wouldn't mind, but yeah, it has to be. I'm just waiting to see how this book does. And I went to Bombay. They wanted a prequel. They wanted to know more about Darius. They wanted a spin off. Yeah. Yeah.
- [23:49]
Khadija
Darius is quite an intriguing character, I would say.
- [23:52]
Zeenith Khan
Yes.
- [23:53]
Khadija
Yeah. Thank you so much, Zeenith, for joining New Books Network Podcast.
- [23:58]
Zeenith Khan
Thank you for including me, Khadijah.
- [24:13]
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