Podcast Summary: Zilla Jones – "The World So Wide" (New Books Network, Sept 28, 2025)

Main Theme

This episode of the New Books Network, hosted by Holly Gattery, features acclaimed author Zilla Jones discussing her ambitious debut novel, The World So Wide (Cormorant Books, 2025). The conversation delves into the origins, themes, and character dynamics of the book—which traverses continents and decades—and explores complex questions of race, identity, diaspora, motherhood, and political revolution, all set against the backdrop of the 1983 Grenada invasion. The episode offers personal insights from Jones about her writing journey and illuminates the nuanced relationships that drive her work.

Episode Breakdown

1. Novel Origins and Writing Process

• Genesis of the Book

  • Zilla Jones recounts the decade-plus journey of writing her novel, starting “prior to New Year’s Eve 2013” and finishing the first draft during the COVID-19 lockdown in May 2020.

  • The initial spark: a commitment to prioritize something personally meaningful each week—writing the novel—originating from a conversation at a wedding (04:04).

    "It was just something I had to do for myself." – Zilla Jones (05:55)

• Writing for Self vs. For Publication

  • Jones describes the special nature of a debut born in obscurity and without publishing expectations, noting the change that occurs once deadlines and an audience come into play (05:55).

• Path to Publication via Short Stories

  • Her pursuit of publication for her novel motivated her to begin writing and submitting short fiction, eventually earning recognition in major literary competitions. This expanded her confidence and led to a forthcoming short story collection (07:41, 09:51).

2. Literary Community & Advice for Emerging Writers

• Value of Literary Journals

  • Both host and guest stress the importance of submitting to and supporting literary magazines as a way to build a writer’s profile and community (11:53).

    "Canada has amazing literary journals. We really do. … I highly recommend literary journals." – Zilla Jones (11:53)

• Writing vs. Publishing

  • A discussion on the difference between writing for oneself or with publishing in mind, with practical advice to increase visibility via short-form work (11:11).

3. Novel Themes and Character Insights

• Challenging Western Narratives

  • The novel intentionally challenges narrow Western understandings of world events and the legacy of colonialism, using the character Felicity’s outsider perspective to explore these themes (14:15, 16:40).

    "I started thinking about letting people know what happened in Grenada… and the enormous influence and impact that colonialism has had. … Felicity … embodies those things because she's a person that lives contradictions." – Zilla Jones (14:15)

• Receiving and Reading the Novel

  • Host Holly highlights how the novel shattered some of her own worldviews, to which Jones expresses gratitude for reader connections across difference (17:21).

    "So many people can relate to that feeling of being the underdog and being the outsider." – Zilla Jones (17:21)

4. Mixed Race Identity, Belonging, and Diaspora

• Race as Social Construct

  • A nuanced exploration of how Felicity’s—and Jones’s own—mixed Caribbean and diaspora identity is perceived differently depending on context (21:41, 23:06).

    "Race is so much a social construct. … In the Caribbean, people who are mixed that aren't necessarily considered black per se because there's a lot more racial categories. … But in North America...if you look like you have some African ancestry and you have brown skin, then you're black." – Zilla Jones (23:06)

• Complexities of Passing, Colorism, and Community

  • Jones explains how Felicity experiences both privilege and alienation, shifting with her environment and community, and explores historical roots of colorism and desirability politics (23:06).

5. Motherhood and Feminist Portrayal

• Subverting Motherhood Tropes

  • Felicity’s mothering is depicted as complex and non-idealized, which some readers found controversial. Jones unpacks how trauma, colonial legacies, and personal inclinations affect Felicity's parenting—and challenges expectations for female characters (35:13, 37:30).

    "What I was really looking at … in terms of motherhood was the traumatic intergenerational legacy of things like colonialism." – Zilla Jones (35:13)

• Liberation from ‘Likeability’

  • Both author and host reflect on the freedom and realism of Felicity being unapologetically herself—ambitious, dramatic, shrewd, and sometimes unsympathetic (41:18).

    "We're not allowed, especially as women… to feel like our children are a burden. … But we do. And Felicity feels them all." – Zilla Jones (41:21)

6. Research, History, and Narrative Balance

• Blending Research and Storytelling

  • Jones describes gleaning from family oral history, self-published memoirs, online archives, and podcasts to ground the Grenada Revolution's portrayal, and shares her surprise at encountering local division and the extent of U.S. propaganda (43:25).

    "I hadn’t realized how insidious the foreign interference was… I knew they physically invaded, but I didn’t know that they had also invaded people's minds." – Zilla Jones (43:25)

• Finding the Right Informational Balance

  • The narrative integrates history organically without sacrificing story or pacing—“woven through like a fine gold thread.”

7. Character Dynamics: Friendship and Allyship

• Jack as the ‘Calm in the Hurricane’

  • Host Holly singles out the character Jack, whose supportive friendship with Felicity models true allyship—open-minded, non-judgmental, and quietly radical for its time (48:18, 49:30).

    "What I wanted to show with him was that allyship is possible. Like Jack is really, he's a good ally, right. Like he doesn't try to make it about him. … He's open to learning, he's open to apologizing when he makes a mistake, he doesn't always get it right." – Zilla Jones (48:18)

• The Role of Grace and Accountability

  • The episode closes with a discussion on grace, correction, and the limits of cancel culture, wrapped in mutual appreciation for narrative spaces that allow for complexity and growth (52:19).

    "Accountability. I mean, I know people also don't like that word, but I think we really are accountable to each other as, as humans and our actions and our words impact other people every day." – Zilla Jones (52:19)

8. Preview: Upcoming Work

• Short Story Collection Announcement
  • Jones’s next project is a linked story collection imagining alternate histories of Mary Joseph Angelique, an enslaved woman in 18th-century Montreal, paralleled with contemporary stories of mixed identity and diaspora. Publication is slated for February 2027 (54:06).

Notable Quotes & Time Stamps

• On the Debut Novel’s Uniqueness:

  “It will never be special like that again. Because now it’s always, you know, I’ve got a deadline… I was just writing.” (05:55, Zilla Jones)

• On Diaspora and Outsiders:

  “So many people in this world are outsiders, right? There’s probably more outsiders than insiders.” (17:21, Zilla Jones)

• On Mixed Race Identity:

  “Race is so much a social construct...the whole family doesn't have to be one thing. So it's just a very different way of looking at race." (23:06, Zilla Jones)

• On Felicity’s Role as Mother:

  “What I was really looking at… was the traumatic intergenerational legacy of things like colonialism.” (35:13, Zilla Jones)

• On Empathetic Friendship:

  “What I wanted to show with [Jack] was that allyship is possible. ...He doesn’t try to make it about him.” (48:18, Zilla Jones)

• On Research Discoveries:

  “I hadn’t realized how insidious the foreign interference was… I knew they physically invaded, but not that they also invaded people’s minds.” (43:25, Zilla Jones)

Suggested Listening Timestamps

• Novel origin & writing journey: 04:04–11:11
• Discussion on submitting to literary journals: 11:53–13:00
• On challenging Western narratives: 14:15–17:21
• Mixed race identity complexities: 21:00–29:12
• Motherhood, trauma, and likability in characters: 32:50–41:44
• Historical research and U.S. propaganda in Grenada: 43:25–46:58
• Friendship with Jack and models of allyship: 48:18–50:43
• Short story collection preview: 54:06–56:02

Conclusion

This engrossing conversation highlights both the personal and the political in The World So Wide. Zilla Jones’s thoughtful reflections offer valuable lessons for writers, readers, and anyone interested in the legacies of colonialism, race, and resistance. The episode is rich with insights about writing, identity, and the quiet radicalism of empathy and grace—carried through the compelling story of Felicity Alexander.