Best of Rory & Mal: Week of 6/16

Summary

Podcast Summary: Best of Rory & MAL: Week of 6/16

Episode Release Date: June 22, 2025

Hosts: Rory, Mal, and Damaris

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1. Introduction to the Discussion

The episode kicks off with Rory and Mal delving into the concept of "dud" albums released by legendary artists in the hip-hop industry. They explore whether even the most iconic rappers occasionally release albums that fail to meet expectations.

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2. Defining a "Dud" Album

Rory initiates the conversation by asserting, “I think every legend we've had has dropped a dud” ([03:00]). However, Mal challenges this notion, questioning what exactly constitutes a "dud." He remarks, “do you know what a dud is? Where we can unanimously say that shit is trash” ([03:00]).

The hosts grapple with defining objective criteria versus subjective opinions. Mal emphasizes the importance of consensus: “If I don't go back to it and actively play, like, at least half of the album, I feel like that's a dud to me” ([06:46]).

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3. Jay Z's Discography: A Case Study

The discussion zeroes in on Jay Z’s albums, particularly "Blueprint 2," "Magna Carta," and "Kingdom Come."

• Blueprint 2:

  • Rory labels it a dud, citing, “Blueprint two was a dud” ([03:15]).
  • Mal counters, stating, “Blueprint 2 is not a dud” ([03:32]).

• Magna Carta:

  • Rory shares personal admiration but acknowledges public disappointment: “I enjoy the album, but all that anticipation... It got killed that first week” ([05:04]).
  • Damaris agrees with Rory, saying, “Most people would say if Jay Z had a dud, it would be Magna Carta” ([05:23]).

• Kingdom Come:

  • Rory reflects on its reception, mentioning, “Remember we can know what everybody is feeling about it or what everybody seems to be feeling about it” ([10:07]).
  • Mal remains non-committal, admitting, “I don't remember if everyone... a lot of people didn't” ([09:32]).

Notable Quote:

Rory ([04:06]): “Wayne is doing what, 150k first week. That's not a dud.”

---

4. The Role of Public and Critical Reception

The hosts debate who truly determines an album's success or failure—teenagers and young adults or the older generation.

• Damaris argues that teenagers and young adults drive the music industry's trends: “Teenagers and young adults... they do” ([12:15]).

• Mal contends that artists like Jay Z don’t specifically target younger audiences: “Jay Z has never tried to appeal to kids” ([12:40]).

• Rory provides historical context, noting the strategic release of albums during the holiday season to maximize sales: “Why was the fourth quarter at that time always the time when rappers put out their albums?” ([15:23]).

Notable Quote:

Damaris ([14:43]): “He's not of course, but back when Jay Z was also young, he was making music for people in his age range.”

---

5. Eminem and the Notion of "Legends" Dropping Duds

Rory brings up Eminem as another example, prompting agreement that even legends have moments where they release less acclaimed work. They explore whether legends are given leniency in their discographies.

Notable Quote:

Mal ([08:37]): “Everyone knows how Kingdom Come came across in the beginning.”

---

6. Pusha T vs. Kendrick Lamar: A Tangential Dive

Transitioning from album discussions, the hosts briefly touch upon the beef between Pusha T and Kendrick Lamar. While not the main focus, they acknowledge the complexities and public reactions surrounding the feud.

Notable Quote:

Rory ([33:15]): “Pusha T has been continuing walls to get his juice fix in.”

---

7. Personal Anecdotes and Broader Reflections

Towards the latter part of the episode, Rory, Mal, and Damaris share personal experiences related to the topics discussed, such as managing public perception and relationships influenced by their podcasting presence.

Notable Quote:

Joy ([48:20]): “I don't know that it's ever happened to me in my career. But, yeah, I don't.”

---

8. Conclusion and Takeaways

The episode concludes with the hosts emphasizing that even legends can have missteps in their careers, but these moments don't necessarily define their entire legacy. They advocate for a nuanced understanding of an artist's body of work, recognizing both the highs and the lows.

Final Thoughts:

• Mal underscores the subjective nature of music appreciation: “music's subjective” ([04:24]).
• Rory reinforces the idea that legends are continually evolving and that occasional duds are part of that journey.

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Key Takeaways:

• The definition of a "dud" album varies between objective metrics and personal taste.
• Legendary artists like Jay Z and Eminem may release albums that receive mixed or negative receptions, but their overall legacies remain intact.
• Public and critical reception plays a significant role in determining an album's success, influenced by various demographics.
• Personal experiences and perceptions can shape how hosts view an artist's work and its impact.

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This episode offers a deep dive into the dynamics of musical legacy, the pressures on legendary artists, and the subjective nature of music criticism. Listeners gain insights into how even the most revered figures in hip-hop navigate their careers amidst both acclaim and controversy.

Transcript

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[Rory]

The volume. Even though Ma was getting killed for the old Kendrick take about Toronto, I did see a lot of people agreeing with him on the Wayne thing. And I'm here to argue. I think every legend we've had has dropped a dud.

[Mal]

Every legend has not dropped a dud. A dud. First of all, do you know what a dud is? Where we can unanimously say that shit is trash.

[Rory]

Do you think Eminem is a legend?

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Do you think Eminem has dropped a dud?

[Mal]

Yes.

[Damaris]

Fifteen of them.

[Mal]

I'm not gonna go that far.

[Rory]

That's a little while. But by Jay Z standard, I think Blueprint two was a dud.

[Damaris]

You don't get to say by Jay Z standard.

[Mal]

No, but that's how he.

[Rory]

We only compare legends to themselves.

[Mal]

What the fuck? No, we don't.

[Damaris]

No, we don't. We compare legends to other legend.

[Mal]

Talked about Wayne last week. We wasn't comparing him to himself. We was comparing it to albums that dropped. That is a dud.

[Rory]

I'm not huge on Nas's untitled album. Not going to say the dud.

[Mal]

Is it a dud?

[Rory]

But that's better than his worst, is better than everybody else's Hot. So, like, yes, it was a dud.

[Mal]

Nah, I don't think it was a dud.

[Rory]

He had to change the name. Blue.

[Mal]

Blueprint 2 is not a dud.

[Rory]

It's the bottom of his.

[Mal]

That doesn't mean it's a dud.

[Rory]

I'm sure, like numbers wise, I'm sure it's sold. But Wayne is doing what, 150k first week. That's not a dud. But Blueprints, people would kill to sell that. People only a list rappers right now would kill to do those first week numbers.

[Mal]

Yes, those numbers shut a dud. Those numbers. They would. That music. They wouldn't.

[Rory]

So what's a dud then?

[Mal]

Okay, so now let's have that conversation. If you. If you feel like Blueprint 2 is a dud, why do you feel like it's dud? Because most people don't like Blooper 2 because they feel like it was too much music. It was.

[Rory]

Yeah, the double disc, a lot of duds on it.

[Mal]

I don't know if it's a lot of duds. Jay, he took some chances. The Sean Paul thing, to me, disgusting.

[Rory]

Wayne took some chances too.

[Mal]

I hate that record with Sean Paul. We didn't need that one. But I'm not gonna say the album was A duck. Because there's some crazy records on both of those discs.

[Rory]

Okay? Magna Carta.

[Damaris]

I don't think it slapped the shit out you.

[Rory]

I don't think it's as bad as people make it out seem. I. I enjoy the album, but all that anticipation. You in jungle studios with fucking mobile providers.

[Mal]

Dud.

[Rory]

You sell a million records before the shit comes out. It's already on our phones. Is it a dud that the anticipation for that album became a dud? Yes. It got killed that first week.

[Mal]

Why are you. You catering it to. Is it a dud? Don't tell me. The anticipation that week, so now it's a dud?

[Damaris]

No, Most people would. Most people would say if Jay Z had a dud, it would be Magna Carta. I do not agree with that. But most people would say that Magna Carta has gotten a bad rep. I think it's like. I agree with Rory. I think it's a way better album than people give it credit. But most people will say that back in the.

[Mal]

Is it a dud?

[Damaris]

I do not believe.

[Rory]

You invented 5G with it. And you're in the studio, Rick Rubin and Pharrell talking about a metaphor for the ocean.

[Mal]

Okay.

[Rory]

And then it was just like, all right, this is what you were doing the entire time.

[Mal]

So do you feel like Magna Carta is a dud? You feel. I'm talking about you. Not in. Not in the scope of Jay's discography. You. When you listen to the album, you feel like it's a dud.

[Rory]

After he tried to break down the seasick line to Pharrell, and Pharrell went, what? Yeah, he was kind of a dud to me. And then after. After the speakers blew out with similar dancing.

[Damaris]

He dancing. You got your thong on and you shaking ass. You dance.

[Rory]

You guys won't tell me what a dud is, though, because I tried to go with the definition of numbers. So, no, Magna Carta would not be that. Now you guys are telling me it's music that's subjective.

[Mal]

So what's a day?

[Rory]

So I like Magna Carta. But the consensus, when that shit came out after timberland, July 4th, watching fucking whatever game was on where it was announced, Timberland blew his speakers out, which ended up being the worst drums I've ever heard in my life. Yeah, it was a dud as far as the critics and fans went that week. I like it, but no one else did.

[Mal]

Okay. I mean, I think also a lot of the times dud can be subjective. I think that's why that's what the definition was.

[Rory]

We all feel dancing.

[Mal]

No, I'm not dancing. I feel like the Lil Wayne album that he just dropped was not good at all. I feel like there's a couple joints on there that's like, okay, Wayne is still in shape. He still rap.

[Rory]

We agree there.

[Mal]

But the music to me is just not. I would never go. Like, if I don't go back to it and actively play, like, at least half of the album, I feel like that's a dud. If I don't go back to your album and play at least half of the tracks. You got 16 tracks. If I'm not going back and actively listening to at least eight, nine. That's a dud to me.

[Rory]

I mean, if we're talking about legends that actively, actively drop. You can't name one outside of maybe Michael Jackson that has never dropped a dud.

[Damaris]

They would say Michael has a dud, too.

[Mal]

What's Michael's dud?

[Damaris]

I don't. I'm sure someone would say that Michael has a dud. I can't remember.

[Mal]

I mean, well, people we just seen.

[Rory]

He freed a whole killer whale.

[Damaris]

Was it butterflies that they said was Michael's dud?

[Mal]

Who said that?

[Rory]

I know where they at.

[Damaris]

Find.

[Mal]

Find who? Butterflies.

[Rory]

Find their IP address.

[Mal]

Find them. We need him. We need to talk to this person. Like, everybody cut his route off.

[Rory]

Like, I think outside, I think the big three are legends, but I don't put them there yet. As far as people have been dropping music for 25 years, that's the people I'm talking about now. Yeah. I think eventually you're going to drop a dud if you stay active. And we've seen it with our legend. Is it a dude is allowed to drop a dud?

[Mal]

Is it a dud? Or is it just like, that's the worst album you dropped? Because that's a difference.

[Damaris]

Okay.

[Rory]

But that's why I say you can only compare legends against their own discography. I'm not. I'm not. Wayne's worst work is better than most people's favorite rap albums in the new.

[Mal]

Will you go back to Wayne's last album and play at least half of those tracks? Listen to it? No. So then that's a dud.

[Rory]

But you also are saying that legends can't drop duds. But said Eminem is a legend. And we can all agree here that.

[Mal]

I said legends can't drop. I mean, that if they. If a legend drops an album that's not good, like, we hold them to a higher regard. So, like, with the Wayne shit. Cause you was like, nah, it's okay. I'm like, no, it's not. Like, when you're a legend, you can't drop a dud.

[Rory]

But Eminem has.

[Mal]

He has, and it happens. But I'm saying that you don't get a pass because you was trying. It sound like you was trying to give Wayne a pass for dropping the dud. Nah, you don't get no pass for that. This gentleman right here, Rory, says, I agree with Maul. Thank you. Waltz. I agree with Maul. If Wayne dropped an okay or just a good album, the convo is completely different. But if you're in the convo of one of the greatest ever and you drop a dud, that it has to be made known that it was okay. Then. Then it has to be made known that it was a dud. Yeah.

[Rory]

Okay, I don't feel this way, but do you think the consensus of the general public after Black Album happened, he retired, came back with show me what you got. Do you think Kingdom Come was deemed a dud when it came out?

[Mal]

Kingdom Come, Yeah. I'm not going to say it was deemed a dud, but a lot of people didn't like it. I'm not gonna say dud, though. A lot of people didn't.

[Rory]

I don't think it sounded the way I like it. I think it probably has one of those best intros. Lost one's, one of my favorite songs. There's so much shit on there. That's incredible. But let's not all act like everyone didn't say that was a fucking dud when it came out.

[Mal]

Oh, I don't. I don't remember if everyone.

[Rory]

I stood in line for the fucking reflective cover.

[Mal]

I don't.

[Rory]

I don't know. And then we all opened it and was like, all right, man. Could have stayed retired.

[Mal]

I don't. I don't know. I don't. I don't. I can't speak to that. But I. I didn't feel. Me personally, I didn't feel like it was a dude.

[Rory]

Okay, listen, I like Kingdom Come. I'm talking about what the general public thinks.

[Mal]

Oh, I don't. I don't. I don't know what the general was public was saying about that.

[Rory]

That's exactly.

[Mal]

What year did that come out? Oh. Oh, yeah. I don't know what the. The general public was saying. Oh, anything. Oh, anything. Like what the.

[Rory]

What was Kingdom Come? No, because, wait, American gangster was, what, 07? So kingdom come was maybe two years after that. Oh, no, because Kingdom Come was the peach.

[Damaris]

2003 was kingdom come.

[Mal]

Oh, hell no. I don't know what the General Public In 03, all these niggas was thinking.

[Damaris]

In 03, I was in second grade.

[Mal]

We didn't even have social media, did we?

[Rory]

Oh, no more. After the Black album, Fade to black. When he handed the keys to the city over to you and Bleak, he disappeared and then came back, gave us a reflective cover that we'd never seen. Everyone was disappointed. As far as the public went. Yes. That was the overall consensus.

[Mal]

Anywhere you went was like, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I don't remember that.

[Rory]

Coming off the Black album. Retiring, going to Def Jam. Yeah. Everyone at that time, that first few weeks, everyone was like, he could have probably just stayed retired. This ain't your return album.

[Mal]

But people gonna put it.

[Damaris]

Oh, I do. I remember that consistency.

[Rory]

Yeah. I was like, all right, now we're just rewriting history. That is what.

[Mal]

I don't remember that. You was like 16, 15.

[Damaris]

He wasn't even 16. He was like 13, 14.

[Mal]

Get the fuck outta here with this take. You hear this shit? Peeves is malarkey. How the fuck do you know what people with the general consensus.

[Rory]

13, the TV that's back walking around MTV. You acting like a 14 year, 14 year old isn't talking to people. What the are we talking about?

[Mal]

You had to be home before the.

[Rory]

You act like. I was 8 years old. I was 13. I was high. I was in high school.

[Mal]

And you still had to be home by the time dinner was done. You didn't know what the general public was thinking. You don't know.

[Rory]

What does it have to do with ghetto techno?

[Mal]

You don't. You don't do. Well, that, that. That's different. You talking about a song. I'm saying the general consensus about the.

[Damaris]

Album Kingdom come came out 2006, peace game.

[Rory]

I was 16, I was driving.

[Mal]

Yeah, you still don't know what the general consensus was thinking, though. Not at 16, you don't. That's impossible to know that at 16.

[Rory]

Dog, I had.

[Mal]

Your world is so small at 16. You don't know what everybody is thinking.

[Damaris]

Mall. I get what you're saying, but kids run the run the music industry and run the music industry. Teenagers and young adults, yes, they do.

[Mal]

Run the music industry. Is that what you just said?

[Damaris]

When it comes to what's hot and what's popular. Yes, they do. That's why y' all don't understand the.

[Mal]

Allore can't even talk how the they running, what's hot and what's like they can't even speak.

[Damaris]

That's now. But back then the kids decide what music is going. Everybody appeals to kids. You know that everybody is trying to appeal to 13.

[Mal]

Jay Z has never tried to appeal to kids. He has never made an album for kids. So let's stop that right there.

[Rory]

Are you about to tell me 16 year olds are not listening to Jay Z 2006?

[Mal]

I did not say that. Like what Damaris. I'm saying with the. To Damaris's point, Jay Z has not made an album thinking about kids.

[Rory]

Of course not. I'm not.

[Mal]

That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm speaking to. I'm speaking to what she said. He's never went to the studio and said I'm making this album for kids.

[Rory]

So what do you think singles are for? Like why Jay Z is so successful is because he catered his music to a wide audience.

[Damaris]

Nah, Hard Knock Life was definitely for 40 year olds for sure.

[Rory]

It's got an any hook. Kids are literally on the fucking hook.

[Mal]

So that means it's four kids.

[Damaris]

Not that.

[Rory]

But it's going to like a kid is going to like it.

[Mal]

That's different.

[Damaris]

And when I say kids, I'm not talking about babies, I'm not talking about children. I'm talking about teenagers and young adults.

[Rory]

One of my early memories of the radio is more money, more problems being on the radio because I found I didn't know what the fuck they were saying. It was catchy. Yeah, that appeals to kids. Catchy songs appeal to kids.

[Mal]

MTV is. Songs appeal to anybody.

[Damaris]

What are you talking BT106 and Park, MTV. All of those things were they appealed to to K, not children, but to kids.

[Rory]

When they went to the window, it wasn't a bunch of 40 year olds like yo salute. It was a bunch of kids and their parents.

[Mal]

Yeah, but that's again, I'm not saying that what you're saying is wrong. I'm saying these artists are not going. Jay Z in particular is not going in the studio making album thinking about what are the kids gonna think about this? That's not what he's doing. He's making music and whoever likes it, likes it. But it's not for kids.

[Damaris]

He's not of course, but back when Jay Z was also young, he was making music for people in his age range. No, you don't think that that was happening.

[Mal]

Yeah, but again you talking about rap. Rap is a Young. First of all, rap is a young sport, number one.

[Damaris]

Exactly.

[Mal]

So it's gonna appeal to a younger audience just by the nature of the culture. But when you talking about his content and what he's saying and what he's talking about, that's not. He's not rhyming and rapping and telling you fiends could catch a freeze off my kneecap. He ain't saying that for kids.

[Damaris]

Of course not. Nope. Just saying.

[Mal]

Right? So I'm just saying he's not making it for kids. It's gonna appeal because it's hip hop, it's rap. These are what kids. This is what they listen to, this is what they see, this is what they grow up around. But they're not the ones that determine if that. If it's hot or not. Like, no, that's not who.

[Damaris]

But see that. And that's just how you get. We're gonna have to disagree. We're gonna have to disagree. That is who determines what's hot or not. Because those are the. Back in those days, back in 06, when again, when you had to get your music video premiered on certain things and you were trying to get people to buy your albums and you were marketing, you were marketing towards younger adults because younger adults are more likely to spend their money on that type of shit or beg their parents to spend their money on that.

[Rory]

Listen, why was. Why was the fourth quarter at that time always the time when rappers put out their albums? It was because Christmas. Because kids are going to ask their parents about the cd.

[Mal]

That's. That's why.

[Damaris]

Yes.

[Mal]

Because of Christmas.

[Rory]

Then why was.

[Mal]

Or because it was the end of the year reporting for the labels, and then the numbers had to match for the year.

[Rory]

And what. What is the highest rate for Christmas we talking about?

[Mal]

It wasn't.

[Rory]

Call your brother. I guarantee you he'll say, call your brother.

[Damaris]

Call your brother.

[Mal]

But it wasn't just for Christmas, though.

[Rory]

Duh. That's the highest consumer rate at that time. People are spending the most money. Kids are asking. That's. That's correct. Correct. But everything at that time, what are we talking about? That's a fact in the world, not just music.

[Mal]

Yes. Christmas time, people buy gifts. I get that part. Christmas is catered around buying gifts for kids. Kids are not the only ones that receive gifts during Christmas. What I'm trying to tell you is when rappers put out music, kids didn't make it hot. Kids got. Kids found out what was hot based on what the older niggas in the.

[Rory]

Hood was listening to we're saying numbers. Whole from everything is because he appealed.

[Mal]

To so many people. My block said he was hot. I only knew DMX was dope because the older on my block was saying dmx.

[Damaris]

You saying that the older on your block were the older on your block 20, 21, 22? Or were the older on your block.

[Mal]

3540 ranges from 20s to 30s to 40s. It was a bunch of old dudes on my block. But what I'm saying is me being. Me being. Me being 13, 14, I only knew. I only knew Snoop was dope because dudes that had cars, older dudes that was riding around, listening, that had the girls, that's what they was playing. And I'm like, I want to listen to that.

[Damaris]

In between 19 and 30, maybe they were not 45 years old.

[Mal]

They weren't kids, though. Back to this. They were not kids.

[Damaris]

But I've been been clarified that when I say kids, I mean teenagers and young adults, people from the ages.

[Mal]

Well, that's not kids. That changes everything. You just said you can't take the kids.

[Rory]

You're saying making content that's not for kids isn't like Eminem's whole entire career. Why he blew up was because of kids. And his content was way crazy.

[Damaris]

Never for kids, but he had kids as fans.

[Rory]

That's what separated Eminem from everything was because the kids, myself included, it felt like, damn, this is dangerous to listen to. Like, I hope my mom doesn't know that I'm listening to this.

[Damaris]

Nicki Minaj fans as well. Nicki Minaj's fans were all young kids. Like, they were young kids.

[Rory]

Her music the whole time. The intention isn't. The intention is to go to a wide audience.

[Mal]

That is the intention.

[Damaris]

Yes, but the kids are. Is what's going to make you hot. Like, period. If you don't have the kids, there's only so far you will go. There's only so far you will go. If you don't have the kids. You can have the kids and not have the adults. Hence the Playboy cardies. Hence the ice spices. You can have the kids and not have the adults and still have an amazing career, but you can't have the adults and not have the kids and blow up like that. It doesn't work unless you're already a legend and you've already had the kids and the kids who are now the adults were your fans back then. It just doesn't work like that. You do need the teenagers and young adults to make music pop. It's just always been like that.

[Rory]

Did you, did you know the, the public's views of volume one when it came out?

[Mal]

The volume one was 97. No, the public use. No.

[Rory]

Not at all.

[Mal]

I knew the views on the people in my neighborhood.

[Rory]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah. The people around you.

[Mal]

Yeah, yeah. They fucked with it.

[Rory]

But you, how old were you? 16?

[Mal]

16. 15. 16.

[Rory]

Yeah. So why like, why can't a 16 year old know what the fuck people think of an album?

[Mal]

No, you talking about. You said the general consensus.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mal]

No, you knew the people in your radius, in your neighborhood. You didn't know the general consensus of what this album that came out was. You knew what the people in your neighborhood were saying about it. You knew what the people in your barbershop.

[Rory]

That's not a thing.

[Mal]

That is a thing. But when you say general, I'm thinking you thinking like the entire, like what is the entire fucking country saying about this artist that just dropped? Like how we know now when the artist dropped? We can know what everybody is feeling about it or what everybody seems to be feeling about it. It wasn't like that in 97. What are you talking about?

[Rory]

For the most part, everyone has similar thoughts.

[Damaris]

That's crazy. Depending on the regions and things like that. Cause I grew up thinking that the general consensus was that Jay Z was the best rapper to ever have rapped. And then I started meeting N from the and they looked at me like I had seven heads.

[Rory]

Jay fan.

[Mal]

But again, and that's false too, because a lot of niggas in the south fuck with Jay Z.

[Damaris]

A lot of N from the south do. But a lot of N from the south do not look at Jay the way that we do. It's not the general consensus that it's well known that Jay Z is the greatest rapper of all time in the South. It is not looked at like, that's a big debate.

[Mal]

I feel like this is. But even here in New York, there's a lot of people in New York that don't feel like Jay Z is the best rapper ever.

[Damaris]

Yeah, but we look at them like weirdos.

[Rory]

Cause they are. But I think this is semantics. We don't claim it. And no, I can't prove it.

[Mal]

But.

[Rory]

But everyone knows how Kingdom Come came across in the beginning.

[Damaris]

Like, I, I would have to agree with you as a. I had a father who's a Jay Z fan. I, I would have to agree with you.

[Rory]

It wasn't actually till way later when everyone was like, yo, remember we used to kill this album. And she was. All right.

[Mal]

You heard what she just said her father said about the album. Somebody older.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Mal]

And then that's how she felt about the album.

[Rory]

Yo, at 16, I, like, I knew people that were 20. I know that sounds insane, but. Yeah, like, I knew older people.

[Mal]

I'm not saying you didn't. I'm just saying you got most of what you felt from an album based on the older people that were around you and what they were saying, how they felt about the music. That's just how it's always been.

[Rory]

I felt at 16. 17, black album was better.

[Mal]

Okay, you can still listen.

[Rory]

I went to fade to black, to the movies, to see. Like, I was.

[Mal]

I'm not saying you can't listen to something. And no matter what age, it wasn't.

[Rory]

Older people telling me it was bad. I was like, this ain't. I mean, this ain't that, but.

[Damaris]

Because it don't always go like that. Because I also. My father thought Soulja Boy was the worst thing that ever happened to music. My father also thought that Drake was the worst thing that ever happened to music. And I used to sit and play fucking Drake, Soulja Boy, all of that crank that shit. All of that lean with a rock with it. All of that. I used to make my father sit down and listen to it. So there was. No matter how trash he told me it was. Like, I insisted that it was good because it was good to me and because it was good to me.

[Mal]

Yeah, you can still have. Feel how you feel. But I'm just saying, most of the. Where you get your taste in music, you hear artists now, when they sit down and speak, they talk about what their parents are playing in the house.

[Rory]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Mal]

They talk about what older people were playing in the cars. Like, that's where you get your influence and how you see how people are around you are feeling about music that's coming out. That's where you pick that up from. It's the older generation. It's like, okay, they fucking with that. This is what's playing outside. When I go outside, everybody drive past, they playing this in their car. That's just what it was.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mal]

That's how you fell in love with most of your music. You would hear it. You would hear it moving around outside, hearing in cars, hearing it playing out of somebody's window. That's what it was. And then you would be like, yo, I need to go get that mixtape or that cd. I need to go play that. Then you start playing it on your way to school, listening to your headphones. Like, but you found it from older people in your neighborhood. That's all I'm saying. Like, that plays a large part of it, for sure.

[Rory]

But it doesn't shape an opinion.

[Mal]

No, no, no, it doesn't shape an.

[Rory]

Opinion, but I remember arguing about volume three. That is a special place in my. I like that album more than most people because it was like, one of the first CDS I ever had. But I've heard people tell me, like, yo, you like. What's the song Mariah Carey that squizz did? It's like, one of the worst Jay Z songs ever. It's like one of my favorites.

[Mal]

Little Mariah.

[Damaris]

There's a More, sweetheart. No, that's. That's J.D.

[Rory]

It'S like one of the worst Swiss beats ever.

[Mal]

It's the things that you do every loop.

[Damaris]

Oh, I know.

[Mal]

She's talking about.

[Rory]

Yeah, I remember everyone killing that, and I loved it. Like.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Rory]

That doesn't shape your opinion, but I guess the environment would. I don't know. We just went on a tangent. I know Peach is pissed.

[Damaris]

It wasn't a. It wasn't a bad tangent.

[Rory]

I mean, I guess we can go to voicemails.

[Mal]

Well, congrats on your move, baby D. Hopefully stay out the Brooklyn streets. Summertime is upon us. Don't be out there acting up, please. Just.

[Damaris]

I think. I think I'm be in a relationship by August, so I'm cool.

[Mal]

I'm out Here we go with this.

[Damaris]

I'll be out the street. So we're good.

[Mal]

Oh, boy. Boy. What's next on the docket?

[Damaris]

Toronto shows up for Kendrick. You want to talk about that?

[Mal]

Yeah, let's talk about that. Everybody been in my mentions. Everybody as they should. Yeah, man, but, you know, we tried.

[Rory]

To tell you it was a shitty take then.

[Mal]

Yeah, but you know. You know what it is, man? I be underestimating how many goofies are out here.

[Rory]

Oh, my God.

[Mal]

How many idiots out here in the world like, y' all went and showed up for somebody that was on y' all?

[Rory]

Toronto is the third largest city in North America, right? You don't think Kendrick Lamar has fans out there?

[Mal]

No, no, no, Kendrick. We know Ken Kendrick has fans of Toronto, but I just. You know, people were supposed to that show. You were supposed to not go to that specific show. But you know why? Because he's shitting on the city of Toronto.

[Rory]

Is he?

[Mal]

What the fuck? You think they not like us? Who? You think who's they? And they not like us.

[Rory]

You think he Was specifically talking, like, about Canadians.

[Mal]

Nigga, you.

[Damaris]

All of Canada is crazy.

[Mal]

That's exactly who he was talking about. He was talking about Canadians. Torontonians, to be exact.

[Rory]

I thought he was trying to separate between people, People that are of the culture and the people that are not. And he's saying, oh, they're not like us. And.

[Mal]

Oh, that's what you thought. It's definitely not what he was saying. Yeah. So all you. All you idiots in Toronto that brought a ticket to that show, just. Just do us. Just stay in the house.

[Rory]

Didn't they become us if they were at the show singing with him?

[Mal]

No.

[Rory]

Maybe they wanted to become us.

[Mal]

No, no. And that's. That's why they're. Exactly why. They're goofy. Anybody that went to that show as a tarot, Tony is a goofy. You can't go to that show, man. You just can't. You're not supposed to. Gotta stand for something.

[Damaris]

Can you just say that you were wrong?

[Mal]

About what? About what?

[Damaris]

That you were wrong about your take. About. Yeah, say I was wrong. I thought that they were gonna. He was gonna get laughed out the arena. He didn't.

[Mal]

Oh, man. I mean, listen, man, SZA was there too, though, so.

[Damaris]

Oh, my fuck. Okay.

[Mal]

We gotta give Scissor some props. Let's not act like a lot of people wasn't there to see sza. We're not doing that.

[Rory]

I think people were there for one of the biggest artists, period.

[Mal]

Oh, my God. Cool. Yeah.

[Rory]

So if. Do you think anyone from Queens is allowed to go to a KRS1 show in that moment?

[Mal]

No, now. Today. If KRS. Yeah, today.

[Rory]

Yeah. So when he does, the bridge is over. Queens keeps on faking it. You're not allowed to. You're not allowed to enjoy KRS.

[Mal]

KRS1 wouldn't do that. That's not a part of his set. He would. And he definitely.

[Rory]

I'm sure he performed it last night somewhere in Queens. No, not.

[Mal]

What about in Queens? You said in Queens he would perform.

[Rory]

In New York City.

[Mal]

You said in Queens.

[Damaris]

I'm missing yellow.

[Rory]

No saying in New York City.

[Mal]

He said in Queens. That's what he said at first.

[Rory]

I'm sure Karris1 has perform the Bridge is Over in Queens before. And I'm sure people from Queens were there going the Bridges.

[Mal]

Let's find it. Let's find it.

[Damaris]

So we could go on the search Googling krs.

[Rory]

That's such a specific Queen set list. Yeah. With members from Queensbridge there.

[Mal]

I'm willing to bet that KRS1 never performed that song in Queens. I'm willing to bet that.

[Damaris]

I'm also willing to bet that we'll never know because we.

[Mal]

How. It's the Internet. We could find anything thing. Okay. We can find you rapping on the Internet.

[Damaris]

Can you rely on.

[Mal]

We can't find KRS1 rapping in Queens.

[Rory]

Like, where was everyone holding up their, like, IDs to let you know where they were from. Got one here. Think we got one here.

[Mal]

I guarantee you Josh doesn't have it.

[Rory]

I guarantee. Celebrating Grandmaster Cat's birthday. Bridge is over.

[Damaris]

Damn. In the title.

[Mal]

When we watch the video, I'm up for being wrong. It's 27 minutes long. Oh.

[Rory]

I mean, yeah, he's. He's performing it.

[Damaris]

Fast forward, Josh.

[Rory]

See, that means the Bronx won.

[Mal]

Oh, no, the Bronx definitely won. Like, we know that. Way back then, we knew that. Rory, that's not. That's not what we're trying to figure out here. We know that.

[Rory]

Well, I mean, listen, man, I think it's fine that any Canadian went to go see somebody they enjoy. There's nothing wrong with that clown. So you're saying you were wrong because you had more confidence in the Greater Ontario area?

[Mal]

No, I mean, we obviously know that Kendrick is who he is. Like, people were gonna go to a Kendrick show, but to see people from Toronto, Crip walking, like, what are y' all doing?

[Rory]

You don't understand Crips in Toronto.

[Mal]

I don't know. But to be walking at a Kendrick show and being. You look stupid. You look stupid.

[Rory]

And they're gonna think I'm hating, but I wanna see the tour. But. But what is that section that they keep posting? Is there, like, a gang section?

[Damaris]

Yo, please.

[Rory]

No, no, no, no. Hear me. No, I know that, but have you noticed at every single stop, not just in Toronto, there's a specific area that's open where they could fit way more people, and it'd just be like, 10 gang members there dancing the whole time at every stop.

[Mal]

No, I haven't.

[Rory]

It won't be a girl. It'd just be.

[Mal]

People dance. Like Crip Walking. Yeah, I haven't noticed.

[Damaris]

It might be part of the set.

[Rory]

Listen.

[Mal]

Or they buy me from the set.

[Damaris]

Rep your set, I'm saying.

[Rory]

I mean, that's a cool gig.

[Mal]

Yeah, but that was disappointing to see, though. I ain't gonna lie. That was nasty.

[Rory]

It's over, man.

[Mal]

No, it's not.

[Rory]

Yes, it is.

[Mal]

No, it's not. What's over? What do you mean it's over?

[Rory]

This entire thing.

[Mal]

Like, oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, the beef shit. Yeah. Nobody cares about that. I mean, for me, the Toronto show was the end of it for me, I guess.

[Rory]

Yeah. That was probably the one thing people had marked on their calendar.

[Mal]

Yeah. See if that was the end of it.

[Rory]

I mean, who was the politician that said I went for scissors?

[Mal]

Oh, the.

[Rory]

Here's the thing.

[Mal]

I thought it was I went for scissors.

[Rory]

I thought it was odd that Drake posted that, even though I laughed, but because we got this reaction, I'm happy.

[Mal]

Drake posted that I went for scissors.

[Rory]

How you start copping, Please.

[Mal]

Jagmeet Singer. I went for scissor, not Kendrick. So why you ain't leaving? When Kendrick got on stage, that's my whole thing. Why you ain't leaving? Why? As soon as soon as it was over, soon as SZA set was over, why not leave?

[Damaris]

He wanted to hear, all right.

[Mal]

Cause niggas is lying. He went there to see Kendrick.

[Rory]

I went to the GNX tour not to see Kendrick.

[Mal]

Yeah, just stand on it. That's my only thing with all of this. Stand on it. That's all. I don't care what side. Just stand on it and stay there. No worrying now.

[Rory]

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[Rory]

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[Rory]

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[Rory]

See mint mobile.com Travis Scott vs. Pusha T when the clips put out, so Be It. I felt like a hip hop novice because at the end of so Be it, which I think is incredible by the way, I think the clips are two for two. The visual is incredible as well. I thought Pusha T was dissing Kanye west just out the gate and I thought he was just using Utopia because Travis is man. Like I just thought that was a wordplay thing. And then the timeline started debating and I was like well that'd be weird if he would just diss Travis Scott. Like, like. And first of all, I'm a hip hop nerd. It's got to be about Kanye. And then within 15 minutes pusha t was like, no, I Was directly about Travis Scott. I wasn't talking about Kanye west at all.

[Mal]

Well, Kanye caught a little bar maybe.

[Rory]

Yeah, but he. I mean, he caught one on the first one as well. With trumpets. Like, Pusha T has been continuing walls to get his juice fix in.

[Mal]

Thank you, Josh. This is like my. My spinach.

[Rory]

No, it is spinach.

[Mal]

No.

[Damaris]

Yeah, it's like, literally, spinach definitely is.

[Rory]

So, yeah, the exact bar at the end of so be it was. You cried in front of me, you died in front of me. Calabasas took your and your pride in front of me. Her utopia had moved right up the street and her lip gloss was popping. She ain't need you to eat.

[Mal]

What does any of that mean?

[Damaris]

Well, we can. We can break it down, Josh. Pull that up.

[Rory]

Pull the lyrics up the net. Gonna call it the way they see it, but I got the video. I can share and AE it. They wouldn't believe it, but I can't unsee it. Luckily I ain't TMZ it. So be it. So be it. All right, so we want to start right here. Do we want to start in the timeline of why the fuck Pusha T is dissing a non rapper?

[Mal]

Yeah, sure. Let's do that.

[Rory]

Goes back at the end of the day, bape may be the greatest fashion brand of all time to the chaos that it has caused hip hop.

[Mal]

Bape.

[Rory]

I think bape has caused more chaos in hip hop than maybe Ronald Reagan did at this point.

[Damaris]

Yo, what?

[Rory]

This all goes back to a fucking bape hoodie and some bape sneakers. This all goes back to clips Birdman, Lil Wayne, which, again, I don't want to go in super detail because we did that when we had to explain the Pusha T and Drake beef.

[Mal]

Right?

[Rory]

But it all started there. Everything trickled down that got to pushing Drake. We saw where that ended up up, which I still think has something sort of to do with the Kendrick and 20v1. I still think it. It derives.

[Mal]

It's all tied in, I think.

[Rory]

So Push goes on. I forgot was the New York Times. He goes to explain after so be it that Travis Scott barged into the middle of a clip session with Pharrell. You know, similar to what I do in sessions. Just. Just pretend to be a fly on the wall and then just overtake everything and ruin the entire vibe. So he goes in there to play Utopia for Pharrell. Plays every song. Even plays Meltdown, just without the Drake verse. There is footage which I guess was from, like, the Utopia doc or something, which of course they clip to make it look funny, but Pharrell's face was like, yo, get the out of my studio. He was just bopping his head like.

[Mal]

So we don't think Pharrell was feeling over. You told me probably was.

[Rory]

He probably was. Okay. So he doesn't play the Meltdown verse that Drake has. Leaves the studio after ruining their session uninvited. And then we hear meltdown where Drake is clearly dissing Pharrell, which, again, I think is kind of fine because you're affiliated with Push. Like, I just think if your man's is standing there, sometimes anybody could kind of get it. Which Push found to be disrespectful on Travis's behalf. Yeah.

[Mal]

For not playing.

[Rory]

Don't come in. Yeah, don't come in here, ask for Pharrell's cosign. Pharrell let you film, interrupt our entire session, and then let somebody diss him the next week on the very song that you played him. I can see somebody feeling away about that.

[Mal]

Was Pusha dissed on Mel now, sort.

[Rory]

Of like with within the Pharrell bars.

[Mal]

I can't remember that.

[Rory]

It was something, you know, melting down his legacy and, you know, all that entire. Which he continued on to do in family matters. But with that said, I don't think Push is wrong, per se, for it. I just think it's a little random.

[Mal]

So Push is mad that Travis has a verse on his album where Drake is dissing Pharrell.

[Rory]

Yes. And he is mad that he continues to play the middle ground because to Push his credit, he even went on there and said he thought it was nasty when Travis was hyping up like that, which we all saw and we covered on this podcast. Everyone saw that clip. We thought it was weird too. Like shamans. Like, what the fuck? And Push is saying, you not even a rapper, so why you hyping up beef? You claim to be neutral and be on both sides, but now you hyping up to, like, that record, which is honestly dissing somebody. Push hate. So I give Push the credit on that. Like, you look goofy doing that too. Then you look goofy coming in the studio playing some shit that is gonna diss this guy the next week. Even though we know that. I think Drake did that record, like, the night before. But you're not gonna step in. Like, I was just with Pharrell. Like, don't do that on my record.

[Mal]

Yeah, because we've seen artists before where they be like, nah, I can't. Like, come on. That's my man. I Can't put that verse on my album.

[Rory]

And we can't be hypocrites. Cause when Drake put out Push Ups and was throwing shots at Future, I understood it. Future didn't diss Drake on like that. But you sitting there harmonizing with somebody that is.

[Mal]

Yeah. And it's on your back.

[Rory]

Yeah. So, yeah, I think Drake had every right to do that. So that's where I do feel Push on this entire thing.

[Mal]

Like, yeah, I'm not mad at what Pusha is saying. I'm not mad at his stance on things. Obviously, I understand it. Like, you know, these are rappers we talking about. Travis is not a rapper. He's not about to bar nobody down. He makes no know, big songs and things like that. Has a great live performance. But, you know, rappers. This was Pusha's talking about the rappers. The guys that really can construct these bars and really, you know, go at each other. Like, you know, I could see him feeling away. I just don't want. Because I kind of feel like now I like the fact that Push is addressing shit on wax. Let me put that. And first of all, I would rather him be addressing it on wax than to be going live the corny shit. Like some rappers to go live, start.

[Rory]

Tweeting like, that stuff is fine if you're also rapping, if you putting it.

[Mal]

In the music, cool. But if you not putting the music in, you just addressing your issues with rappers on podcasts or on IG Live, or it's like, come on, bro, get in the booth. So I salute Pusha for getting the booth and airing shit out and, you know, expressing his feelings. That's what this is about. That's what hip hop is for, is to get your shit off. Talk your. If you got something to say, say it, stand on it. So I respect Pusha for that. My thing is, I don't want Pusha to fall into this box to where it looks like beef or issues are part of his rollout for his album.

[Rory]

See, but to me, that I don't.

[Mal]

Want it to fall into that is all. Cause even with this Travis shit, right, I see more people talking about him dissing Travis than the song or the video being as dope as it is.

[Rory]

But that, that's how it's always gonna.

[Mal]

Go, no matter what, I don't like.

[Rory]

But there's also a large community, I feel on the timeline, they're just talking about how great Ace Trumpets is and also beat is and how excited they are about this album, how great the rollout has been. But to say that would push. Like, when was Lord Willing? When was the first clips album?

[Mal]

2003. Like that? 2003 maybe.

[Rory]

Yeah, 2002.

[Mal]

Two.

[Damaris]

Damn.

[Rory]

For the last.

[Mal]

Yeah, you was a jit, baby. Dude, you was outside eating pickles and Kool Aid. That's what you was on barefoot.

[Joy]

So go ahead, Rory.

[Damaris]

23 years.

[Rory]

Okay. I can definitely say for Daytona with infrared, it had. He threw a little shot at the end on the Outro. I wouldn't say it was part of the rollout, but yes, it definitely got some attention. Then Drake ended up replying and then we went down that rabbit hole. But I wouldn't say that was the main focus of his rollout. It's almost dry. I guess there was a few shots here and there, but I didn't think the rollout at all was around that. Matter of fact, the Daytona rollout was the Kanye 7 track Shift It. Like, nobody was even really thinking about beef for that. They were excited for what Kanye was marketing.

[Mal]

No, no, I'm not saying. I'm saying something that Push has always.

[Rory]

Done, but I see a lot of people saying that, like, oh, here goes Push again doing the clout Chasey to get attention. I'm like, dog, since 2002, he's done this like once or twice. This isn't really a push thing, per se. And some of our favorite rappers. 50s rollout was. Was punching down on every.

[Mal]

I mean, but you can't. 50 is HOV did it like.

[Rory]

This is hip hop.

[Mal]

Yeah, but that's.

[Rory]

It's just this new generation that thinks it's corny to make. Make dissing other rappers part of a rollout when it's been that way since 1988.

[Mal]

No, it's. It's. Listen. Beef and hip hop has always been the first hip hop record. Might have been a diss record. Really Go back and listen and dissect those bars. They might have been talking about some niggas from up the block. So we know that. But what I'm saying is, because now my thing is if. If. If Travis responds on his next album. Right? God, I'm just saying. I don't want to hear it. I don't. I don't want to hear. I don't want to hear Travis.

[Rory]

I don't want to hear. I don't care if Sci High pins the.

[Mal]

I think.

[Rory]

I think.

[Mal]

I think Travis is.

[Rory]

I don't wanna hear it.

[Mal]

Travis is a great entertainer, has great records, great musician, one of the best live shows that you probably will see. Love his merch his sneakers. He's doing a lot of great shit. But when it comes to just rapping, I don't wanna just hear. I don't wanna hear Travis going in, trying to bar Pusha T down. I don't wanna hear that. I'm not here for that. But if he responds in a Travis way in the middle of a song somewhere where N is just mosh pitting and it's, you know, fuck Pusha, Fuck Pusha. Fuck Pusha on some rock shit. I don't know. However he want to do it.

[Rory]

I could see that happening.

[Mal]

But then now does Pusha on the next project, what is he doing? Is he back to. Is he flaming Travis up on the next album? You get what I'm saying? So that's what I'm saying. I don't want.

[Rory]

It might not even be the next album. You might just get a response record out the gate.

[Mal]

But that's what I'm saying. I just don't want it to fall into that. The video is amazing. You know, that's what the clips have always done, has given us great visuals and things like that. So this is right on brand for the clips. But yeah, I respect it, man. If you got an issue with somebody.

[Rory]

In rap rap, and I saw a lot of people like, yo, that's, that's corny because like everyone knows Travis doesn't even rap like that. Since when can a rapper not rap about that happened if it wasn't rappers? Like it has to be a lyrical rapper that you just explain a situation. Right. I've heard rappers talk about girls. They what? That girl can't rap. Rap did a whole verse about her. All she can do is reply on Twitter.

[Mal]

Yeah, I don't think.

[Rory]

Does that make them pussy? No. Like this is.

[Mal]

Nah, I don't think that Pusha did this thinking it would turn into a back and forth. Like, I think he just has something to say and he wanted to address it.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mal]

And he addressed it through the music and I respect that. I always respect when the rappers rap and, and get on the song or get in the booth and get they shit off. Like as long as you not just on social media and on podcasts talking about other rappers. It's like, like, cool. Give us the music, do it through the music. That's what hip hop is for. Well, that's one of the things that hip hop is for. But I respect him, man. I'm not mad at this at all.

[Rory]

Do we think we get. Well, I don't know because does Drake even like Travis Scott right now. That's what happens when you get in the middle like that. Like then everyone just hates you. So like I was about to say, do we get a Travis and Drake record where it's a hit but they are sending shots like which they've done in the past that has been incredible.

[Mal]

I don't think we get a Travis and Drake record ever again. Again. I don't think that happens. Me, personally, I don't, I don't know for sure, but I don't, I mean after what he, what Travis did, I don't see.

[Rory]

I would look at that. Goofy and weird.

[Mal]

Yeah, I, I, I don't see that happening. No worrying.

[Rory]

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[Mal]

How has podcasting affected your dating life?

[Joy]

It hasn't really. No, I'm doing fine. How.

[Rory]

This is how.

[Damaris]

This is how broadcast for a while.

[Joy]

How, how would you think it would affect it negatively?

[Mal]

Because you probably more open and honest on your podcast than you are on television about your personal, you know, life and.

[Joy]

Yeah, but in my, in, in, in my real life, like you gonna get joy.

[Mal]

No, I get that part.

[Rory]

But entendre.

[Mal]

But like because us, us, us podcasting, we speak about how like you meet people and you know, they may have heard your podcast or they see clips of your podcast, they hear you say something and then they make this, this preconceived notion about the type of person that you may be.

[Joy]

Oh, I don't date little boys. So I don't, I can't even, I can't even imagine like there's certain conversations I couldn't even imagine having like, oh, I saw this on your podcast like, is that how you really feel?

[Rory]

Oh, imagine a decade of it.

[Joy]

Oh, what?

[Damaris]

It happened.

[Mal]

What?

[Joy]

I can't even imagine this conversation. I cannot imagine.

[Mal]

It's worse.

[Joy]

It's worse, man, having this conversation with me.

[Mal]

But listen, it's worse when you know people, right? Say you dated somebody and you know them before podcasting.

[Joy]

Okay.

[Mal]

And now you have a podcast, and then they hear you say something on your podcast and bring it to you in real life. And actually, like, the relationship would really change between y' all.

[Rory]

Like, your parents.

[Mal]

Well, that's. Yeah, but that. That happens. It's like, yo, you know me for real. Like, what's wrong with you? Like, and it's like, it's a real. Like, oh, no, you said that like, that's how. I didn't know. That's what. Like, you know. You know me. We've known each other 10, 15 years. What are you talking about? Like, that. That happens. Like, people will hear something in your clip and be like, have you had this experience?

[Damaris]

Yes, I've. I've had someone I was living with questioning me about things that happen on a podcast. I'm like.

[Mal]

And they live together.

[Damaris]

I'm like, you.

[Mal]

He know what her faults.

[Damaris]

You know everything about me. Why are you questioning me about something I'm talking about on a damn podcast?

[Rory]

And usually it comes from selfish reasons of they feel that someone else is going to ask them about it. Not what you said. It's that, oh, someone may hear this. Oh, my friend.

[Mal]

Like, yo, what's up with your man? Like, he on there talking about it.

[Joy]

Sounds like they want a man with a different. And woman with a different occupation. That's.

[Rory]

No, but the worst.

[Damaris]

That's very important.

[Rory]

So what I was saying is true. Something else that happens, and that's okay. It can be an adjustment.

[Mal]

Like what? That's because they're dating them. A man with a different sex by birth or something.

[Rory]

Oh, where did your brain even go?

[Damaris]

That's why I said I saw.

[Rory]

The worst is actually when you meet people that you've already had this gig. Like, I met you this way. Sorry, why are you even questioning me on this? I actually understand more of what Mo is saying of people that knew you before podcasting and are adjusting with you of, like, saying personal things that the world may have not known. Not anything crazy, but people that you meet when you were already in media and have the nerve to say anything are the ones that blow my mind. Like, you met me, right? Like, what do you. I'm gonna. I'm stop doing this because you showed up.

[Damaris]

You came across like my clip. That's how you slid in my DMs. I don't know why you would think that. And I was saying, wow, shit, you laughed back then. Now it's not funny. Yeah, because we have. That's crazy.

[Joy]

I don't have any wood to knock on, but this has not happened to me yet. I don't know that it's ever happened to me in my career. But, yeah, I don't. I mean, that's just not. I don't think that's a conversation I would entertain. Like, I'm. I'm almost 40 years old. I'm not talking about, like, I don't like saying. I'm not talking like. Like, I. What I love for you is that you are still on your journey because I'm not your person.

[Mal]

Right.

[Joy]

And I. You are gonna find the person that fulfills you and makes you confident.

[Rory]

If a girl said that. Don't tell me. Don't tell me what journey? Don't tell me my journey.

[Joy]

That's what I. Not. You're not on my journey.

[Rory]

Girl.

[Mal]

Woman can't be like, yo, you're on your journey. I'm not on the journey. I'm at dinner with our maths.

[Joy]

And there's where you. That's it. You got. This is where you get off.

[Damaris]

But to be fair, Joy doesn't say the wild. That we. We say really wild things. Hers is a little more calm.

[Rory]

Unless they're, like, really a Steelers fan.

[Joy]

I mean, oh, my God, man.

[Rory]

But I mean, yes, it. It had. It can lead to heartbreak, which. Which, you know, leaves a void that I feel like only Jesus Christ can fill.

[Joy]

It's true. He is. He is here. Wow.

[Damaris]

That was. That was. Call back heaven, wasn't it?

[Joy]

Great Full circle moment. That's also a part of the. Where we're on different paths, you know? Oh, yeah.

[Damaris]

We didn't give the guys his advice. I think he's. I think he's trying to figure out how long his girl is trying to get over him.

[Joy]

But no, I think we gave him a good advice. We don't know. We.

[Mal]

Yeah. Depends on what happened. What did you do?

[Joy]

What did you do to her?

[Mal]

What happened in the. What did you do?

[Joy]

What did you do?

[Damaris]

Or maybe he's the new guy. He waiting for her to get over her own.

[Joy]

Don't do that. That's my advice.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Because he didn't have any context. I felt like he was waiting on a chick that was.

[Mal]

Maybe said something right there.

[Rory]

No, that's what I thought the whole was.

[Mal]

Sometimes you be that you'd be like, yo. Like, yo, that nigga's whack. You got me waiting like, oh, that man, I'm trying to go to church tomorrow. What are we doing?

[Joy]

No, no, you don't. Don't be that person. Do not be the next. Don't be the heartbreak person. It's not going to work out.

[Rory]

Yeah, don't.

[Mal]

Don't be the heartbreak.

[Joy]

It don't bring the heartbreak healer.

[Mal]

Don't be the rebound.

[Rory]

Don't be Sam Ro.

[Mal]

Unless you never be Sam Ross.

[Rory]

Unless Ginger's always going to go.

[Mal]

She was a boy.

[Joy]

She was a h. A h. Unless you were. Unless you're comfortable with not ever getting a full version of that person.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Mal]

Yeah. But, Joy, sometimes you just want to go to Turks, though.

[Joy]

I. That's what I'm saying. Like, go to Turks. By all means, go to Turks, but.

[Rory]

Don'T go with expectations.

[Joy]

Don't go with expectations.

[Mal]

Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[Damaris]

Cuz the pictures you take, she gonna send to him and say, look what you missing out on, bro? Hey, look, allegedly, I've never done it.

[Mal]

Y' all be playing. Y' all be playing a dangerous game. Is my pictures.

[Joy]

We play different games than. Than y' all play.

[Rory]

Oh, y games are way similar.

[Mal]

Y' all like to play with. Y' all like to go all the way. Like, y' all see death and y' all like to look at it, whereas we know, like, we don't want to go to jail.

[Joy]

I don't want to go to jail either.

[Mal]

Do you want to go to the cemetery when it's.

[Joy]

When it's time.

[Mal]

What time it is.

[Joy]

We're all gonna end up there one day.

[Mal]

No, but I'm just saying, you playing with, like, when. Like the marriage just said. I take you on vacation. You taking pictures. I'm taking pictures. I'm the photographer. And you sending the pictures that I took of you to your ex, and.

[Rory]

We in international waters.

[Mal]

Why y' all laughing at. I'm mad at. Y' all even laughed. That was something.

[Rory]

That's not even funny.

[Mal]

That's not even funny. A joke. Like, what. What the was that about?

[Josh]

I think we're trying to have a serious conversation.

[Rory]

You guys are laughing.

[Damaris]

Did we still have fun in Turks?

[Mal]

Oh, we had a.

[Joy]

This is why.

[Damaris]

What you don't know won't hurt you. Wrong stuff.

[Mal]

It's not that I'm worried about.

[Rory]

First of all, the photographer owns the photos. That's my ip. I don't care if you in the photo. I own that photo.

[Joy]

We can speak without speaking is what just happened.

[Mal]

Oh, no, I know y' all can. I know y' all spoke and I heard it, but what I'm saying is loud. Yeah, it was very loud. But it's just like. Cuz we can't do that as. We can't do that.

[Damaris]

I do stuff like that.

[Mal]

I can't put my feet in the sand and send it to my ex. That ain't fly.

[Joy]

Why would you send a picture of your feet?

[Mal]

So she know where I'm at. Toes in the sand.

[Rory]

If your ex cared about you, she'd know where you was at.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Rory]

The fact that you got to tell her she's over you, she gonna see.

[Mal]

That coastline and be like, I know that ain't the vacation that I did.

[Joy]

What's that? Why do men. Why do you have to be crazy for men to feel like you care about them?

[Rory]

Mommy is.

[Mal]

Oh, I don't feel like that. I don't.

[Joy]

You don't?

[Mal]

No, I don't. I don't think.

[Damaris]

I don't play that crazy all the time.

[Mal]

They ask me, you never had a girl. I never had it.

[Rory]

He's never had a girlfriend.

[Mal]

I never had a fight with a girl. Never. Like, nothing crazy, like, I've never experienced that type of relationship. Never more strict. Not that I'm strict, it's just that this is what it is and this is what it ain't. Yeah, but we can. We gonna have a. We gonna have fun, though.

[Rory]

White after Labor Day. And that's his. That's his soulmate he's breaking up with.

[Mal]

No, that's. That's stupid. I'm not that guy. But I just don't. Because I think, you know, when it's getting to that toxic point where it's like, disrespect is coming in. Like, we just saw the couple that he killed her after he got off live. He killed his girl, then the cops was chasing him and he killed himself.

[Rory]

It's like, a little more excessive than.

[Mal]

I think, but I'm saying. But if you look at the IG live, they're arguing. It looks like it's playful. According to the comments, this is what they always did. Like, they get on each other's lives, start talking shit like, yeah, I caught him cheating. Now he mad. Da da, da da da. Yeah, you fuck that nigga. Like, I ain't never touched. No. It was that type of relationship.

[Joy]

Like, domestic violence and extreme abuse are, I think, yes.

[Rory]

Murder, suicide, Exists. But that's just not really.

[Mal]

But what I'm saying is. But what I'm saying is it starts somewhere.

[Joy]

No, you're absolutely right.

[Mal]

It. It.

[Joy]

It does. And I'm. I'm talking about sort of the, like, more. The more gentle version of this. Not, not, not. Not the starter kit for dragging on.

[Rory]

A relationship of two people that shouldn't be together type of thing.

[Damaris]

I unblocked you with 50 times. Or I called you 50 times. Private.

[Rory]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joy]

That's in that. That's. Yeah, yeah.

[Rory]

I've always wanted. Do women. Not like, I know women think we're dumb sometimes, but why is this like the private 50 times? Oh, I'm going to answer the 39th one.

[Joy]

You've had someone call you 50 times.

[Rory]

100%.

[Joy]

Good for you.

[Rory]

And even after, like, the 50.

[Mal]

Never.

[Rory]

No, you got to listen.

[Damaris]

It's good.

[Joy]

Yeah.

[Mal]

Never.

[Rory]

I was in N, N, N, N.

[Mal]

Baby D. We can't do that. Baby D. Can't ask you if it's good.

[Rory]

I was giving. I was giving it up like a ty.

[Mal]

That's nasty.

[Damaris]

Calling some whack 50 times is crazy.

[Rory]

No, calling with your number, it getting blocked. And then calling from your homegirl's number that I know blocked. And then a private number. Like, I'm not gonna understand the coincidence.

[Damaris]

You answered eventually.

[Mal]

A lot of that be ego too, though.

[Rory]

A couple days later, though, y' all.

[Mal]

Want the last little get off. Like, y' all need that. Like if. If the man got the last get off in the whole back and forth, off and block and all of that. Sometimes a woman's ego, like, nah, he can't just.

[Damaris]

Yeah. Back in my talks. Back in my toxic days. I. My ego is the most important thing to me. Once I know I've lost, like, the love, the ego. I gotta protect the ego.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

See, because I can't go outside like this.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

Even though no one's watching but God.

[Rory]

But.

[Joy]

What I'm not about to do is. I'm not. I'm not. I can't. Because I'm egotistical. I have a lot of pride. So there's just certain things, like, it doesn't matter what the I want to do. You are not catching me outside acting like that. Absolutely not.

[Mal]

Has not affected joy.

[Rory]

Pride can turn on you in that way too, though, because pride can be good. In that instance of, like, I'm not even dealing with this. I got too much pride to deal with this psycho. Also, pride can be. I'm not letting this psycho get one up on over me. Let's go play in the mud.

[Joy]

Yeah. No, no, you don't want to play in the mud. You have to determine what the. What the stakes are and what the win is. Like in any situation. You should ask your. What's the win here? Like, worst case scenario. This. Best case scenario. That worst case scenario is pretty bad. It's probably for the best that you just leave that alone.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Or sing gospel on Instagram.

[Joy]

Yeah. I mean, I don't. I hope you guys aren't speaking this over me because that's gonna be a really irritating conversation because the last time this happened was actually happened with the podcast because we were talking about this God awful splitting the bill conversation, which we will never be free of. We'll never be. We have to let these shackles. I. I had never experienced it. Like, I still haven't experienced it myself, but I like didn't even know this was like a real thing.

[Mal]

Splitting the bill.

[Joy]

Yeah. I mean, it's just. I mean, since, I don't know, it's really common. She's still confused. It still is very confusing to me. Like, it doesn't make any sense. Yeah.

[Mal]

But niggas are stumbling to pick that check up with Joey. Like, yo, I got.

[Joy]

It's unimaginable.

[Mal]

Have you ever. Have you ever reached like, pump fake.

[Joy]

Reach for the bill for a like, very clear date?

[Damaris]

Date?

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Joy]

No.

[Mal]

Never even pump faked for what? Just to see. Just to kind of test where he was at?

[Joy]

No.

[Damaris]

Or a date?

[Joy]

No, no.

[Damaris]

I've done it in my relationship. And then.

[Joy]

Yeah, like when you're in a relationship, we're not talking about in a relationship. I'm talking about like you. Or like I called you said, listen.

[Mal]

Let'S go to dinner tomorrow.

[Joy]

I want to take you to dinner.

[Mal]

Yeah. And then you think we're splitting the bill.

[Joy]

They're splitting the bill.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Joy]

No, that's crazy because also it's like, if I like, say I was like, yo, like, I want to talk to you guys about like some business. Let's like go to dinner. I asked you. Like, like, I'm going to pay for it and write it off, obviously, but like.

[Mal]

Cause they'll do that and still expect us to pick up the bill and you.

[Joy]

No, no, no, no.

[Damaris]

No one's raised right anymore.

[Joy]

But I don't want to get into this explaining bell conversation. I just couldn't believe this was like a real thing that people were outside doing.

[Mal]

Oh, yeah.

[Joy]

And it happened to my girlfriend and I told a story on the podcast and people still bring this shit up to me. Like, people still bring it up to me. A young man walked up to me at an event and he was like, you know, I gotta ask you, like, are you serious about the splitting the bill conversation? And I was like, can I I just have a follow up before I answer you? Like, how old are you? And he was like, I'm 24. I said, baby, I'm. I'm 38 years old.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Joy]

Be worried about nothing. I'm doing. Like, with all due respect, you have so much more life to live.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Joy]

You and I will never be in that situation. I wouldn't do that to you now unless.

[Rory]

But he should also be 24.

[Joy]

Which I'm out of the business of doing. So you used to me trust trick.

[Damaris]

The fine women be tricking. I be trying to tell y' all. Joy.

[Mal]

When you was tricking Joy.

[Damaris]

Cut the more like how I miss this.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Joy]

I tricked so much in my life. Real. Yes.

[Mal]

I tricked so much.

[Joy]

I'm retired. I will not be doing that no more. But yeah, for sure. It's fun sometimes.

[Rory]

What's the most expensive thing?

[Mal]

Yeah, but what's the tricking and what's the most.

[Rory]

All right, two. Two part question. What's the most expensive item you bought? And then what's the most amount of just cash or wire that you gave?

[Mal]

Joy ain't never wi. No. No money. I'm not. I'm not buying that. Joy.

[Rory]

It was your own management.

[Mal]

Joy, you wired a man money before.

[Damaris]

Haircut money or like wiring.

[Mal]

A haircut money is a lot just as cute.

[Damaris]

Like cute.

[Joy]

You can't.

[Rory]

How a wire cash app is wire now.

[Joy]

Yeah. Is that.

[Rory]

Are we technically that's wire.

[Joy]

Are you talking like Zel.

[Rory]

Is officially a wire.

[Joy]

Have to like pay for a wire. Like I sent a wire today. I have to like pay for a wire. We talking about.

[Rory]

Yeah. When you hit a high certain amount of money.

[Joy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rory]

Okay. But any type of exchange of just know that.

[Mal]

Let you know where she playing at. Joy, how much money have you sent the man before?

[Joy]

I mean, this isn't really fair. Like in a relationship.

[Mal]

Yeah, relationship.

[Joy]

In a relationship. But like off the rip.

[Damaris]

Off the rip.

[Joy]

Cuz off the rip. I don't do off the.

[Mal]

Okay. All right.

[Joy]

Off the rip. I don't.

[Rory]

And I can you trick in a relationship.

[Damaris]

Women can.

[Mal]

Men can't explain. Wait. Let Joy. Because this is a lot going on. Joy, you told you explain that.

[Joy]

Let me say this. I'm exaggerating the trick part of it okay.

[Mal]

Okay.

[Rory]

These are. These are blackmagic cameras. They saw that twitch.

[Joy]

Okay. So if you, like. If you are, like, support someone. Is that tricking?

[Rory]

Yes.

[Joy]

Okay, then. Yeah, guilty.

[Mal]

Support. Like paid rent.

[Joy]

Rent, yeah.

[Rory]

You paid first ballot, hall of fame trick.

[Joy]

Is it Joy?

[Mal]

You a hall of fame? You paid a man's rent before.

[Rory]

That's first ballot.

[Mal]

Like, consistently.

[Rory]

Like, the person that has their speech ready before they eat.

[Mal]

Just like, yo, this month I ain't got it, Jo. Yo, my check coming in next month, baby. Can you hold me down?

[Damaris]

Like, no way. Well, I am through the mattress. He was putting you.

[Joy]

I'm trying to find my way around this.

[Damaris]

Do the box spring.

[Joy]

Does. Does. Does it count if you live there?

[Mal]

Okay, that's tricky.

[Rory]

That's tricky for the trick. Yeah.

[Mal]

N. If you live, it doesn't count.

[Joy]

If you live there, it doesn't count.

[Damaris]

If you. You paid the whole rent, it don't count.

[Rory]

No, but. But that's your girlfriend.

[Joy]

What do you mean? Oh, it's not my boyfriend.

[Rory]

Hell no.

[Joy]

Oh, yeah.

[Damaris]

Well, did he, like, cook, take care of the kids? Like, you know, was he, like, I.

[Joy]

Don'T have not one child I don't have.

[Mal]

Not when they one.

[Damaris]

Did he earn his keep?

[Joy]

Yes, he did. Okay.

[Rory]

I don't know if that's tricking, per.

[Mal]

Se, and what's earning you keep?

[Joy]

No, no, no. Like, I've. I've. I've definitely. I've definitely tricked before, but, you know, like, this is why, like, the dynamics of a relationship are so complicated. Like, what. What a woman should do, what a man should do. That's why the splitting the bill conversation is so funny to me because I'm like, you guys are. Everything is an absolute on the Internet. Like, I will not pay for a first date.

[Mal]

Like, the ones saying that are the doing it right.

[Damaris]

Like, I don't.

[Joy]

It's not even about, like, principle of, like, I'm a woman, I shall not pay.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Joy]

It's like, I'm a busy person.

[Rory]

Circumstances.

[Mal]

Yeah, I get it.

[Joy]

I take myself to rich auntie Mastro's dinners when I want to.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Joy]

So if you were going to come to me and ask me for a night of my life, like, when you think about the times that you've spent with people.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Joy]

Like, you gave them a day of your life.

[Mal]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joy]

That's fucking crazy. Like, one day you'll be on your deathbed, hopefully, and you'll be looking back like, damn, that motherfucker got eight hours for me. Crazy. Like, I could use that, right? Now, Right? Like, that's how I look at time. So if I'm going to have a dinner with you, like, I'm gonna sit across from you, listen to you, and you have asked me to do this. I think it's respectful that you pay for it. Now if you're 21 years old and you guys are just starting dating, you're just starting your careers, like, that's a different conversation. Who has like businesses and three full time jobs and an assistant? Like, like, no. What do you mean? Why would I be. Why would I pay for you to eat food?

[Mal]

Right.

[Joy]

I could have just uber eats and killed them and watched Mobland. Like, that's not. This is not a good use of my time. And I just think it's more about respect than anything else. It's not even about, like gender roles.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mal]

Great show like that, mom.

[Rory]

No, you make sense. And. And you're definitely talking to the wrong people because we definitely believe in men paying for dates.

[Damaris]

So they pay for my food as they should. Yeah.

[Rory]

Yeah. I never understood why that was even like a conversation or debate on Twitter. Like, but, you know, I think it's. I just always thought it found it odd other. Even when I was broke, I thought that's.

[Damaris]

But that's okay.

[Joy]

That's okay. I've been broke. We've all been broke. Yeah, but if you are broke, why are you. Why are you bothering people?

[Mal]

Why? Are you hungry? No.

[Joy]

No.

[Rory]

I mean, no.

[Damaris]

Being hungry is understandable, but why are.

[Joy]

You worried about me being hungry like this?

[Damaris]

You need yourself first.

[Joy]

I wasn't worried about paying for other people's food or not paying for food when I was. When I was broke. I think it's in general, though. Like, I. I feel like this is a little bit of a callback to do.

[Damaris]

I just.

[Joy]

I need to feel feminine, you know? Like, I just, just. There's not a whole lot men can do for me. I always say, like, all a man can do for me is love me. That doesn't require money. Like, it's about intentionality.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Joy]

So it's really not about, like, are we going to the nicest restaurant? Which is nice. And I appreciate. Like, I know how much we go.

[Mal]

To some good hood spots too, though.

[Joy]

Yeah. Or that too. But like, that too. Like, take me somewhere that is intentional. Like, this is a spot I like. Like, whatever.

[Rory]

Take you into her world, you know?

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Mal]

You like fried shrimp? Shrimp. Just best fried shrimp in the hood right here.

[Joy]

Let's go. That sounds like a. That sounds like actually a more Interesting time than going to a super expensive restaurant.

[Mal]

Definitely.

[Rory]

But are you good in that hood?

[Mal]

Cuz we might not make it.

[Rory]

Figure that out first.

[Mal]

That's why it's more interesting. We might not get out of there.

[Joy]

It's like little survival test.

[Mal]

Yeah. Keep the car. Keep the car running. You might not get out.

[Rory]

Took me to your ops hood to get shrimp.

[Mal]

Oh, yeah.

[Rory]

I think your journey.

[Joy]

There's a lot of like gender wars going on right now.

[Rory]

They get clicks. But.

[Mal]

But I get. It's stupid what it is.

[Rory]

Before we let you go, I want to ask because I have never been tricked on outside of what Damaris said. As far as the mattress. I don't want to get in that world. How do I approach a woman and ask her how to trick on me phone calls?

[Joy]

I don't know anything about that.

[Rory]

Yeah, she wasn't tricking on me. She was probably. Probably needed some money.

[Mal]

They always do.

[Rory]

How do I get a woman. How do I approach a woman in the tricking situation?

[Joy]

So you wanna. You wanna trick?

[Rory]

I. I've never been tricked on.

[Mal]

Crazy question. So you wanna trick, but you ain't see this part. So you wanna.

[Rory]

Because I'm. I am not a trick, at least by my standards. I don't think I'm a trick, but I do pay four things.

[Joy]

You want to be tricked on or you want to be a trick?

[Rory]

I don't want to be a trick. I've never been a trick. I want a girl to trick on me. It's never happened. Oh, how do I go about doing that?

[Joy]

You don't. You don't have the survival anxiety to. To do that.

[Rory]

Oh. To go through the mental gymnastics of accepting.

[Joy]

You know, I don't think you're built for word.

[Rory]

Oh, yeah, no, I don't want to be. You don't like, I don't want to be degraded.

[Damaris]

Yeah, you don't. It's not about being degraded. You don't like being bothered enough for, like, you wouldn't be able to give what was necessary for someone.

[Joy]

There's a certain level of like, humility.

[Mal]

Okay.

[Joy]

Required for what you're talking about.

[Rory]

We can leave it at that. I know. I know what you're saying.

[Joy]

That's as gentle way of saying it.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

Joy, please tell everybody the name of your podcast and where they can listen to it.

[Joy]

Too personal. You can subscribe on YouTube and crazy and follow that to personal show. And we do a. We do a voicemail or advice segment to Never Too personal, which is really fun. Actually. Our episode this week is with Clarissa Shields. She's an amazing the champ. She was great. So love talking to her and I'm.

[Mal]

Gonna call and leave a voicemail. She's not gonna know it's me.

[Damaris]

How we ain't gonna know you?

[Rory]

I would say we should leave one.

[Damaris]

As a pod, but change your voice right now.

[Mal]

Change my voice? My name?

[Joy]

Yeah and you can watch speak on FS1 weekdays with myself and Keyshawn Johnson and Paul Pierce. We have a good time.

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[Joy]

This is an iHeart podcast.