New Rory & MAL – "Checking In With Miguel" (October 23, 2025)

Overview

This episode features a candid and in-depth conversation with Miguel, acclaimed musician and genre-blender, celebrating his return with the new album "Chaos" after an eight-year hiatus following "War and Leisure." Hosts Rory and Mal dig into Miguel’s creative process, personal growth, approach to collaborations, the impact of fatherhood, industry changes, and the evolving landscape of R&B.

Main Themes & Purpose

• Miguel’s journey back to music after an eight-year break
• Introspection and personal change influencing the new album "Chaos"
• Reflections on creative process, purpose, and the business of music
• Artistic evolution and genre experimentation
• Parenthood’s effect on artistry and perspective
• Industry insights—collaboration, support, changes in R&B culture

Detailed Breakdown

1. Miguel’s Return & "Chaos" (02:29–08:30)

• The Long Hiatus

  • Miguel’s last album, "War and Leisure," was in 2017.
  • The extended break was rooted in burnout, the need for personal growth, and later, the transformative experience of parenthood.
  • He describes returning to music as both demanding and rejuvenating.
    • "You should be like, okay, get back to it. Gotta go do it... but it was the right amount [of time]. I feel good coming back." (Miguel, 04:06–05:53)

• Motivation & Purpose for The New Album

  • The impetus to create stemmed from an internal need, not industry pressure.
  • "Chaos" is about deep self-examination, change, and pursuing real connection with listeners rather than chasing commercial “moments.”
    • "This time it's about how am I having a real conversation that I can continue to have with my audience? ...the objective is different this time." (Miguel, 07:28–08:00)

2. Evolution, Sound, & Album-Making Philosophy (08:00–14:08)

• Sound Through the Years

  • Rory notes that "Chaos" feels like a culmination of Miguel's discography, with genre-bending influences.
    • "Sonically, this album does kind of feel like your entire discography in one project..." (Rory, 10:10)
  • Miguel resists sticking to fan expectations; each album is a new "restaurant"—different flavors, same chef.
    • "I would consider myself more like a restaurateur... There's gonna be a core principle, but the cuisine may be a little different." (Miguel, 11:28)

• Aggression & Social Climate

  • "Chaos" is described as Miguel’s most aggressive, urgent work, echoing the current social atmosphere:
    • "This is not a time for us to be honky dory... it's a time to be like, 'No, I'm not, I don't like this.'... there's a real need for change." (Miguel, 13:34)
  • Elements like driving electric guitar and live drums highlight this newfound energy.

3. Personal Growth, Anger, and Industry Lessons (15:24–18:30)

• Dealing with Anger

  • Miguel discusses realizing he’d suppressed anger and aggression throughout his rise, but now channels it constructively in art.

• Hard Lessons in the Industry

  • Direct communication is key—no more hiding behind managers and lawyers.
    • "Being direct with people and dealing with people directly...is way more effective." (Miguel, 17:07)
    • "Not to hide behind people or teams. I think being very direct." (Miguel, 18:10)

4. Collaboration, R&B Culture & Artistic Chemistry (18:30–25:41)

• Selective Collaborations

  • Miguel values authentic relationships in collaboration—no features without real-life connection.
    • "I'm not doing no features with nobody that I haven't had some food or coffee or a conversation with..." (Miguel, 18:55)

• Reflection on R&B Artists and Collaboration

  • Unlike rap, Miguel’s R&B peers rarely collaborate, despite forging a whole subgenre ("Alternative R&B").
  • The reason? Artistic hands-on production and the writer/producer approach make joining forces complex.

• Historical Perspective

  • Points out that previous eras (Motown, Philly soul) thrived on collaborative environments, something that’s largely missing today.

5. Artistic Process, Regrets, and Meeting Idols (25:41–32:44)

• Creative "Almosts": The Pharrell Story
  • Miguel recounts sessions with Pharrell that didn’t result in an album track—he was too committed to his vision to fit.
    • "I just wish I would have locked in with him more because he's a hero of mine...was it me? Was I just too…" (Miguel, 27:47)
  • No hard feelings—appreciates the importance of vision, even when passing up big-name collaborations.
  • Pharrell encouraged Miguel to embrace his Latino roots early on, advice Miguel finally feels ready to follow on "Chaos."

6. Changing Music Landscape: TikTok & Timelessness (38:34–44:50)

• Impact of Social Media on Music Longevity

  • Rory wonders if a song like "Adorn" could thrive in today’s environment where timeless records feel rare.
  • "Sure Thing" only went #1 after a viral TikTok a decade later; Miguel regards the timing of hits as almost random today.
    • "It did good at the time...Then all of a sudden, you know, random TikTok person does his thing...I can't put [logic to it]." (Miguel, 40:18–40:54)

• Performance & Cultural Interpretation

  • The song “How Many Drinks” is reframed by changing norms—hosts and Miguel laugh about whether it would be misunderstood today, yet clarify its intent as a consent record.

7. Touring, Audience, & Live Music (45:19–51:18)

• Tour Plans & Favorite Cities

  • Miguel’s upcoming tour kicks off in February, with a special homecoming at the LA Forum.
  • New York, the Bay Area, New Orleans, London, South Africa, and Australia are among his favorite cities.

• Audience Energy Differences

  • LA crowds are famously laid-back; Bay Area is energetic; New York crowds have a reputation, but are actually very engaged.
    • "We're just not known for having great shows...Crowds in LA...It's just a cultural thing, I guess." (Miguel,46:13)

• Love for Live Music

  • Prefers attending shows incognito, in the middle of the crowd, to absorb genuine emotion.

8. Art, Teaching, and Organizing Creators (48:11–50:36)

• NYU Appointment

  • Miguel is scholar in residence at NYU, teaching "Speaking Chaos to Power."
  • The course centers on empowering creators to control their IP and shift industry models toward artist ownership.
    • "The systems by which that IP gets distributed and monetized should be owned and operated by the creators." (Miguel, 48:24)

• Power of Art

  • Art erases social distinctions and unites people in shared feeling.

9. Fatherhood & New Perspectives (53:02–56:46)

• Emotional and Cognitive Shifts

  • Fatherhood brings new responsibility and a sense of urgency about the world his son will inherit.
  • The pressure of teaching his child, facing his own limitations, and learning to say "I don’t know."
    • "I'm aware that I don't have the answers..." (Miguel, 55:51)

• Screen Time & Parenting Challenges

  • Currently striving for no screen time for his toddler, but laughs that he’ll probably give in eventually.

10. Specifics on “Chaos” – Features and Influences (57:00–63:03)

• Notable Feature

  • Only one guest: George Clinton, whose “Good Thoughts, Bad Thoughts” had a life-changing impact on Miguel.
    • "It was a dream to have him on the album… it represents a turning point for me." (Miguel, 58:12)

• Greatest Song

  • Names "Good Thoughts, Bad Thoughts" by Funkadelic as his favorite of all time, emphasizing its transcendence and wisdom.

11. Future Collaborations & Dream Producers (65:59–69:57)

• Unrealized Partnerships

  • Wishes to work with producers like Flying Lotus, Dave Sitek, Jeff Bhasker, DJ Premier, 1500 or Nothin’, James Fauntleroy, and No I.D.
    • "That is one of those ones where I'm like, yeah, why hasn't that happened?...We have yet to do that." (Miguel, 67:39)

• Artists' Reluctance

  • Admits artists often forget or hesitate to reach out; for Miguel, it's more discomfort with asking than ego.

12. On the Future of R&B Hooks (70:02–71:19)

• Will the R&B/rap hook tradition return?

  • Miguel has mixed feelings: it relegates singers to hooks, but sees value in its return in an evolved form.
    • "Selfishly…I'm not the most for that...But, yeah, I do miss some of it…It's going to come back. I might be behind it..." (Miguel, 70:28–70:50)

• Dream Project

  • Entertains the idea of producing an album of all female MCs with R&B hooks.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Creative Evolution:
  “Every album is like its own restaurant… there's gonna be a core principle…but the cuisine may be a little different… I'm the head chef.” – Miguel (11:28)

• On Social Media Music Trends:
  “Sure Thing…went number one two years ago, a whole decade more after it was written…variables didn’t line up… then random TikTok… I can't put [logic to it].” – Miguel (40:18–40:54)

• On Meaningful Collaboration:
  "I'm not doing no features with nobody that I haven't had some food or coffee or a conversation with..." – Miguel (18:55)

• On Aggression and the Album's Tone:
  "When you're going through some refining, you gotta be aggressive. You can't be passive... this is not a time for us to be honky dory." – Miguel (13:34)

• On Fatherhood:
  “I'm aware that I don't have the answers… But you know what, though? I will say that I will feel comfortable saying, I don't know, son. Let’s look it up.” – Miguel (55:51–56:08)

• On Artistic Community:
  “Art brings people together around emotion, which erases the differences… That is the function of art.” – Miguel (49:37)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Album Talk: 02:29–08:30
• Album’s Aggressive Sound: 10:10–14:08
• Industry Lessons: 16:55–18:30
• Collaboration Philosophy: 18:30–20:48
• Pharrell Sessions & Artistic Vision: 25:55–32:38
• Social Media and "Sure Thing": 39:12–41:17
• Consent in Lyrics In Modern Context: 43:27–44:29
• Touring & Crowds: 45:19–51:18
• NYU Course & Creator Ownership: 48:11–50:36
• Fatherhood Impact: 53:02–56:46
• George Clinton/Album Feature: 57:08–59:03
• Producers Wish List: 65:59–69:57

Episode Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is relaxed, witty, and insightful, with humor and honest vulnerability. Miguel and the hosts blend profound thoughts on art and identity with music-nerd fandom, nerdy asides, and jokes about everything from tour crowd energy to the insanity of parenting young children.

Conclusion

Miguel’s episode is a rich exploration of artistry, change, and intention. Fresh off a long hiatus, he’s candid about growth, the challenges of the music business, and the pursuit of purpose and authenticity in a fast-changing world. Listeners get unique insights into the making of "Chaos," the reality of being a father, ongoing dreams for collaboration, and the deep roots that continue to drive Miguel’s creative future.