Checking In With Miguel

Summary

New Rory & MAL – "Checking In With Miguel" (October 23, 2025)

Overview

This episode features a candid and in-depth conversation with Miguel, acclaimed musician and genre-blender, celebrating his return with the new album "Chaos" after an eight-year hiatus following "War and Leisure." Hosts Rory and Mal dig into Miguel’s creative process, personal growth, approach to collaborations, the impact of fatherhood, industry changes, and the evolving landscape of R&B.

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Main Themes & Purpose

• Miguel’s journey back to music after an eight-year break
• Introspection and personal change influencing the new album "Chaos"
• Reflections on creative process, purpose, and the business of music
• Artistic evolution and genre experimentation
• Parenthood’s effect on artistry and perspective
• Industry insights—collaboration, support, changes in R&B culture

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Detailed Breakdown

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1. Miguel’s Return & "Chaos" (02:29–08:30)

• The Long Hiatus

  • Miguel’s last album, "War and Leisure," was in 2017.
  • The extended break was rooted in burnout, the need for personal growth, and later, the transformative experience of parenthood.
  • He describes returning to music as both demanding and rejuvenating.
    • "You should be like, okay, get back to it. Gotta go do it... but it was the right amount [of time]. I feel good coming back." (Miguel, 04:06–05:53)

• Motivation & Purpose for The New Album

  • The impetus to create stemmed from an internal need, not industry pressure.
  • "Chaos" is about deep self-examination, change, and pursuing real connection with listeners rather than chasing commercial “moments.”
    • "This time it's about how am I having a real conversation that I can continue to have with my audience? ...the objective is different this time." (Miguel, 07:28–08:00)

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2. Evolution, Sound, & Album-Making Philosophy (08:00–14:08)

• Sound Through the Years

  • Rory notes that "Chaos" feels like a culmination of Miguel's discography, with genre-bending influences.
    • "Sonically, this album does kind of feel like your entire discography in one project..." (Rory, 10:10)
  • Miguel resists sticking to fan expectations; each album is a new "restaurant"—different flavors, same chef.
    • "I would consider myself more like a restaurateur... There's gonna be a core principle, but the cuisine may be a little different." (Miguel, 11:28)

• Aggression & Social Climate

  • "Chaos" is described as Miguel’s most aggressive, urgent work, echoing the current social atmosphere:
    • "This is not a time for us to be honky dory... it's a time to be like, 'No, I'm not, I don't like this.'... there's a real need for change." (Miguel, 13:34)
  • Elements like driving electric guitar and live drums highlight this newfound energy.

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3. Personal Growth, Anger, and Industry Lessons (15:24–18:30)

• Dealing with Anger

  • Miguel discusses realizing he’d suppressed anger and aggression throughout his rise, but now channels it constructively in art.

• Hard Lessons in the Industry

  • Direct communication is key—no more hiding behind managers and lawyers.
    • "Being direct with people and dealing with people directly...is way more effective." (Miguel, 17:07)
    • "Not to hide behind people or teams. I think being very direct." (Miguel, 18:10)

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4. Collaboration, R&B Culture & Artistic Chemistry (18:30–25:41)

• Selective Collaborations

  • Miguel values authentic relationships in collaboration—no features without real-life connection.
    • "I'm not doing no features with nobody that I haven't had some food or coffee or a conversation with..." (Miguel, 18:55)

• Reflection on R&B Artists and Collaboration

  • Unlike rap, Miguel’s R&B peers rarely collaborate, despite forging a whole subgenre ("Alternative R&B").
  • The reason? Artistic hands-on production and the writer/producer approach make joining forces complex.

• Historical Perspective

  • Points out that previous eras (Motown, Philly soul) thrived on collaborative environments, something that’s largely missing today.

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5. Artistic Process, Regrets, and Meeting Idols (25:41–32:44)

• Creative "Almosts": The Pharrell Story
  • Miguel recounts sessions with Pharrell that didn’t result in an album track—he was too committed to his vision to fit.
    • "I just wish I would have locked in with him more because he's a hero of mine...was it me? Was I just too…" (Miguel, 27:47)
  • No hard feelings—appreciates the importance of vision, even when passing up big-name collaborations.
  • Pharrell encouraged Miguel to embrace his Latino roots early on, advice Miguel finally feels ready to follow on "Chaos."

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6. Changing Music Landscape: TikTok & Timelessness (38:34–44:50)

• Impact of Social Media on Music Longevity

  • Rory wonders if a song like "Adorn" could thrive in today’s environment where timeless records feel rare.
  • "Sure Thing" only went #1 after a viral TikTok a decade later; Miguel regards the timing of hits as almost random today.
    • "It did good at the time...Then all of a sudden, you know, random TikTok person does his thing...I can't put [logic to it]." (Miguel, 40:18–40:54)

• Performance & Cultural Interpretation

  • The song “How Many Drinks” is reframed by changing norms—hosts and Miguel laugh about whether it would be misunderstood today, yet clarify its intent as a consent record.

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7. Touring, Audience, & Live Music (45:19–51:18)

• Tour Plans & Favorite Cities

  • Miguel’s upcoming tour kicks off in February, with a special homecoming at the LA Forum.
  • New York, the Bay Area, New Orleans, London, South Africa, and Australia are among his favorite cities.

• Audience Energy Differences

  • LA crowds are famously laid-back; Bay Area is energetic; New York crowds have a reputation, but are actually very engaged.
    • "We're just not known for having great shows...Crowds in LA...It's just a cultural thing, I guess." (Miguel,46:13)

• Love for Live Music

  • Prefers attending shows incognito, in the middle of the crowd, to absorb genuine emotion.

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8. Art, Teaching, and Organizing Creators (48:11–50:36)

• NYU Appointment

  • Miguel is scholar in residence at NYU, teaching "Speaking Chaos to Power."
  • The course centers on empowering creators to control their IP and shift industry models toward artist ownership.
    • "The systems by which that IP gets distributed and monetized should be owned and operated by the creators." (Miguel, 48:24)

• Power of Art

  • Art erases social distinctions and unites people in shared feeling.

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9. Fatherhood & New Perspectives (53:02–56:46)

• Emotional and Cognitive Shifts

  • Fatherhood brings new responsibility and a sense of urgency about the world his son will inherit.
  • The pressure of teaching his child, facing his own limitations, and learning to say "I don’t know."
    • "I'm aware that I don't have the answers..." (Miguel, 55:51)

• Screen Time & Parenting Challenges

  • Currently striving for no screen time for his toddler, but laughs that he’ll probably give in eventually.

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10. Specifics on “Chaos” – Features and Influences (57:00–63:03)

• Notable Feature

  • Only one guest: George Clinton, whose “Good Thoughts, Bad Thoughts” had a life-changing impact on Miguel.
    • "It was a dream to have him on the album… it represents a turning point for me." (Miguel, 58:12)

• Greatest Song

  • Names "Good Thoughts, Bad Thoughts" by Funkadelic as his favorite of all time, emphasizing its transcendence and wisdom.

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11. Future Collaborations & Dream Producers (65:59–69:57)

• Unrealized Partnerships

  • Wishes to work with producers like Flying Lotus, Dave Sitek, Jeff Bhasker, DJ Premier, 1500 or Nothin’, James Fauntleroy, and No I.D.
    • "That is one of those ones where I'm like, yeah, why hasn't that happened?...We have yet to do that." (Miguel, 67:39)

• Artists' Reluctance

  • Admits artists often forget or hesitate to reach out; for Miguel, it's more discomfort with asking than ego.

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12. On the Future of R&B Hooks (70:02–71:19)

• Will the R&B/rap hook tradition return?

  • Miguel has mixed feelings: it relegates singers to hooks, but sees value in its return in an evolved form.
    • "Selfishly…I'm not the most for that...But, yeah, I do miss some of it…It's going to come back. I might be behind it..." (Miguel, 70:28–70:50)

• Dream Project

  • Entertains the idea of producing an album of all female MCs with R&B hooks.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Creative Evolution:
  “Every album is like its own restaurant… there's gonna be a core principle…but the cuisine may be a little different… I'm the head chef.” – Miguel (11:28)

• On Social Media Music Trends:
  “Sure Thing…went number one two years ago, a whole decade more after it was written…variables didn’t line up… then random TikTok… I can't put [logic to it].” – Miguel (40:18–40:54)

• On Meaningful Collaboration:
  "I'm not doing no features with nobody that I haven't had some food or coffee or a conversation with..." – Miguel (18:55)

• On Aggression and the Album's Tone:
  "When you're going through some refining, you gotta be aggressive. You can't be passive... this is not a time for us to be honky dory." – Miguel (13:34)

• On Fatherhood:
  “I'm aware that I don't have the answers… But you know what, though? I will say that I will feel comfortable saying, I don't know, son. Let’s look it up.” – Miguel (55:51–56:08)

• On Artistic Community:
  “Art brings people together around emotion, which erases the differences… That is the function of art.” – Miguel (49:37)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Album Talk: 02:29–08:30
• Album’s Aggressive Sound: 10:10–14:08
• Industry Lessons: 16:55–18:30
• Collaboration Philosophy: 18:30–20:48
• Pharrell Sessions & Artistic Vision: 25:55–32:38
• Social Media and "Sure Thing": 39:12–41:17
• Consent in Lyrics In Modern Context: 43:27–44:29
• Touring & Crowds: 45:19–51:18
• NYU Course & Creator Ownership: 48:11–50:36
• Fatherhood Impact: 53:02–56:46
• George Clinton/Album Feature: 57:08–59:03
• Producers Wish List: 65:59–69:57

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Episode Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is relaxed, witty, and insightful, with humor and honest vulnerability. Miguel and the hosts blend profound thoughts on art and identity with music-nerd fandom, nerdy asides, and jokes about everything from tour crowd energy to the insanity of parenting young children.

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Conclusion

Miguel’s episode is a rich exploration of artistry, change, and intention. Fresh off a long hiatus, he’s candid about growth, the challenges of the music business, and the pursuit of purpose and authenticity in a fast-changing world. Listeners get unique insights into the making of "Chaos," the reality of being a father, ongoing dreams for collaboration, and the deep roots that continue to drive Miguel’s creative future.

Transcript

[Miguel]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Miguel]

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[Miguel]

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[Rory]

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[Miguel]

The volume no Warrior now.

[Host]

All right Rory, we are back. Today we are joined by a very very special guest. Somebody that we are both huge fans of. Happy to see him back. Did not realize until he told us that the last album War and leisure came out 2017.

[Rory]

Seven years ago. Eight years ago.

[Host]

Eight years ago. I thought it was four Covid has scrambled our minds, brains, everything. Time is a construct, though, right? But today we are joined by the talent, the creative, the iconic R B. I'm not gonna say R B because he. I'm not gonna box him into that. He's just a incredible musician. Back with his new album, Chaos. Yeah, Miguel.

[Miguel]

Yeah. Let's go.

[Host]

Miguel's here.

[Miguel]

Thank you, bro. Thank you, guys.

[Rory]

Thanks for having me. Already embarrassed me off mic of how excited I was.

[Host]

Yes, Rory, was that Miguel was coming by to see us today, but rightfully so. We've been fans of Miguel and supported him for years. So it's good to see him and good to have him here today. How you feeling, man?

[Miguel]

I feel great, man. I'm fans of your guys. I'm appreciative to, like, be on here, man. Oh, come on. Stop, listen, listen. We doing. He's like, stop, stop. Keep it coming.

[Rory]

Tell us more of how amazing we are.

[Miguel]

But the thing is, is, like, when you're able to come and talk to people who love music.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Host]

It's just. It's a different conversation. We was talking about. So we were listening to the album over the weekend. Yesterday. I listened to it in the crib, and I was just telling you that it inspired me to clean the dishes. Clean the crib. The album sounds incre. The music is great, but that's. It's not. I mean, it's no surprise. You've been doing this for years, making incredible music. But how does it feel personally, after eight years to just get back into the swing of artist mode? Yeah.

[Miguel]

It'S a lot. It's a lot. You should be like, okay, get back to it. Gotta go do it.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

Go say talk. Yo. Shit.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

Song is about this. Yeah. By the album.

[Host]

Right through the whole thing. That whole thing. Yeah.

[Miguel]

It's.

[Rory]

Why eight years, though?

[Miguel]

It took time. I mean, we were talking earlier and, I mean, parenthood is a big one. Parenthood. But, I mean, I didn't become a parent eight years ago. It's more recent. I think that was the kind of final, like, okay, it's time.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Host]

Okay.

[Miguel]

I think I just was really looking for a reason because I was get. I was. I was kind of burnt. I was burned. A lot of things that I needed to, like, really just deal with, you know, I went on a pretty long run, and I think it was. It was time. It was time to start dealing with my me.

[Host]

Okay.

[Miguel]

Because I did a lot of my growing up, like, adult growing up in the. In the middle of it.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

It all kind of happened in my adult years and which is a blessing. But it also means you gotta. You. You know, holding oneself accountable is a vigilant ordeal. You know what I'm saying? You gotta really be paying attention. And I just didn't have. I didn't have the bandwidth at the time or just the self awareness to be straight up. I wasn't really paying attention to like the me of it. And I need to do some. Some like reflecting and just get. Get in touch with like my values really. Okay. And so it took some time, but. But it was the right amount, I think. I feel, I feel coming back. I'm a. I feel so much more like, all right, I'm good. Like I can do this for some time and you know, it's going to take some. Some maintenance. But I feel really good coming back.

[Rory]

Was there like a specific aha moment in that eight years that it was like, I need to get back to. To the studio or were you always working? Just nothing really connected the way you wanted it to, man.

[Miguel]

You know, when you get in and you're like, I'm here, but nothing is coming, man. It felt like a drought for some time. It took some time, I think because I had put so much like of the. The value or my value in like the success of what I was doing. Yeah. Or whatever my perceived success was. I mean like looking at other success and then comparing and you're like, damn, like I'm doing all this work but I'm not getting this. And then you start, you start to chip away at that. The moment's wrong now.

[Host]

Yeah, everything's wrong.

[Miguel]

Yeah. So I needed to really go lock in, you know, I needed to lock in and like figure out, okay, well what. What is it that I love about this? What do I still love and what can be recovered? What has changed and to like figure it out and decide if I really wanted to do it and to continue to do that, to do this rather to do music. And yeah, I'm really happy that I found it again. And I think I became really protective this time around. I'm really protective about. This is about. It's like there's purpose behind it. And then I really want to connect with my audience. Before it was like, go get the big song, do the big thing, have a big moment, Fly pictures taken, go walk the carpet. It was like that part of it was a big. Was a big thing. But this time it's about how am I having a real conversation that I can continue to have with my audience? Cause they're the only ones that's really been writing for me and the ones that is gonna still play my music where I can provide for my son, provide for my family, and it's a sustainable thing. So, yeah, the objective is different this.

[Host]

Time, but 2017, I mean, eight years, so much has change changed with the business of music, sound, the audience. A lot of your audience has grown as well as you have there. People have families now. So in writing and making music with that gap of seven years, how much of the music on this new project Was closer to 2017 than 2025? Or is it all new current right now? Where Miguel is today?

[Miguel]

This is. It was like I was. That's also a part of what took a long time. Because in the beginning, you know when you're like, man, I don't know, you meet somebody and you're like, I don't know what it was, but I just don't fuck with them. Like, I don't. I don't know. I would say the beginning of 2017, 2018, there was a feeling about myself. I was like, something's not right.

[Host]

Okay.

[Miguel]

And the beginnings of that are still on the album. I think it took eight years to really identify, like, what are the things that are really important and that have continued to. They say something about the overall me coming to terms with me, and also the value of hitting a point where good enough isn't good enough. You feel me when you're like, actually, like, I have something that is important to refine and where I want to go, that's not going to work. You know, not refining it isn't going to work. And so this album is like the. The main points of the last eight years that kind of tell a story of, like, oh, man, I hit a point where I'm. I'm really trying to, like, get my shit together. And what I found out was, you know, change and growing is like. It's not. It's not a linear path.

[Host]

Right.

[Miguel]

You know, and it's. I feel I. I think along the way, there are many times like, I got it.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

Like, bet.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

I'm going. And, you know, four months later. Yeah. A moment later.

[Rory]

Sonically, this album does kind of feel like your entire discography in one project. Was there pressure? Kind of. I feel like the catch 22 of making a classic album is that everyone is going to want it again. And even going from Wild Heart to Warren Leisure, you did steer away from trying to make Kaleidoscope Dreams, too.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Rory]

What was the thought going into this. Cause there's a lot of, like, alternative, almost like TRL, Blink 182 type style in this fire.

[Miguel]

Crazy Love.

[Rory]

Thank you.

[Miguel]

Thanks. Yeah, thanks.

[Rory]

Coming back, was there a pressure of thinking, like, damn, should I just go back to what I know my core maybe wants for me, which is more traditional R B, or should I keep this path of evolving my sound?

[Host]

That's always.

[Miguel]

It's always the question. Right. But you have to. We have to remember that. And I remind myself this when all I want is you came out, what that sounded like in the songwriting, that's not what was happening at the time.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

And my core audience. Core audience from that album, when Kaleidoscope Dream came, that's also not what the. That's not what they were expecting or what it sounded like in the time.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

And Kaleidoscope Dream, that core audience is not the core audience from Wild Heart and so on and so forth. And I think, to answer your question, I would consider myself more like a restaurateur than us. No. Every album is like its own restaurant. You know what I mean? There's gonna be some. There's gonna be a core principle in the. In the approach. Yeah. But the cuisine may be a little different. I'm also the head chef.

[Host]

Right.

[Miguel]

So you're still gonna fill me in the. In the dishes. I'm. That's all my personality, all Where I come from. But, you know, I might bring in some new flavors. It's going to be some new technique even, you know, and so each album is its own restaurant and cuisine experience, dining experience. This album. This experience is. Is personally, I think, for my fans, for my audience, it will be a classic album. Now, whether or not it becomes a classic album for. Yeah. You know, a broad audience is not really my. I have no say in that. You know, that's. That's timing, and that's all kinds of things. What I will say is that this, on this one, is my most aggressive album for sure. Yeah. And I think in that, it's fitting for the times, because what I've learned is that when you're going through some, like, refining, you got to be aggressive. You can't be passive. Right. You can't be lackadaisical, and you can't sleep on any of it. You start to veer back into your. Into the old comfortable. Your comfort, your comfort zone. And I think it happened naturally because of what we're seeing. Like, we're in a time where, overall, I feel like there's a lot of anger and aggression and it dawned on me that we need to be in. This is the mode. This is the. This is not a time for us to be honky dory. You feel me? Like, it is the time to be like. No, I'm not. I don't like this. Yeah, we need. And. And I don't like it today and I don't like it tomorrow. And I'm not gonna be okay with it until it's right.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

And that's the. I think that at the core of this one, there's a real. There's a real need for change. You know, there's a. There's a drive to change and I think that's what makes it relevant. It's. There's. That. None of my other albums have ever had that at the core.

[Host]

You know, it was an electric guitar. Because the electric guitar can kind of feel aggressive.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Host]

At times. But is that the reason why there's more of that on this project is because of the energy and the mode that you're in?

[Miguel]

I would say most of my. I mean, I think that's the most. The electric guitar throughout my albums has always been a driver.

[Host]

Because you've always driving.

[Miguel]

Yeah, always a driver. I think that live drums on this album, I think there's a lot of. Even tempo wise, there's a few records on. There's more than any of my other albums that feel like they're driving and they're aggressive and even on the mid tempo side, New Martyrs, it still feels.

[Rory]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Miguel]

You. You know, and then there's. There's songs. There's a song called Perderme which is like I lose myself. And that feels like there's just a. Something in there. Yeah. So I would say that and the drums. But just the spirit of the whole thing is really coming from me feeling like I'm not okay with just being okay anymore.

[Host]

That's fine.

[Miguel]

Yeah. You know, and I really. I'm demanding of myself to figure it out.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

And that's. Yeah, that's, that's.

[Host]

That's where this approach.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Rory]

But where would you say that. I guess new form of aggression derived from was that. I mean, in the eight years of you finding yourself in. In different situations, is there a core point where you think that aggression started?

[Miguel]

It's probably just been building. If I'm. And. And also I realize in the process that I have. I haven't always been. I haven't considered that my anger and aggression needs to be dealt with in a. In a. I've never needed To. It wasn't always like something that was like, forward facing.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

You know, I think because it was building for sure. No, look, you. This. This industry. In any industry, man, you start to deal with people and people think they could take advantage of you or you get taken advantage of and you learn your lessons the hard way sometimes, but that just starts to pile up and, you know, you want to take the high road. You want to be on, you know, and on top of that, you're considering things that people say. You know, when you're in the. When you're forward facing is like, people say things that they have no insight on. So you're dealing with that and then you got the regular shit. Life.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

I definitely feel it was just building. I just was like, man, I need to. I need to get this out somewhere.

[Rory]

Pretending like it didn't matter.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I mean, what was like the first hard lesson you felt like you learned in the music industry?

[Miguel]

To deal with people one on one. To not do that in this business will come at the cost of money and a lot of time.

[Host]

Mm.

[Miguel]

I think being. Being direct with people and dealing with people directly. And, you know, I've. I'm. I'm old enough now where in the past it was very much like, let your lawyers handle or let the manager handle. It's always somebody. Yeah. That they would like to put in front of in order. At the time, it was like, to, you know, protect you.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

But what ends up happening is like, other people's egos get in the way. People misrepresent your position or even sometimes inadvertently color a message in their own way that changes the outcome. And that can go both ways, positive and negative. Sometimes. You know, in my case, I've learned that dealing with people directly is way more effective. And I think that's why even now, things move faster, because we're dealing with people. It's a dm. You know what I mean? Like, I don't need to talk to your.

[Host]

We can talk right now.

[Miguel]

Yeah. Let's just do it. And also, as a man, dealing with things directly is way more effective.

[Host]

Always the best way.

[Miguel]

Just straight. Just get to the point. Let's go to the source and let's handle it and we can squash it. We can get on the same page and everything move forward. So I think that's the biggest one. Not to. Not to hide behind people or teams. I think being very direct.

[Host]

The politics of it all. Yeah, listen, get that out the way.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I mean, even on an artist level, too, because I feel Outside of you being on classic hooks with your music, you've been very particular on who you collab with. Like, there hasn't been many features in your discography like that.

[Miguel]

Yeah. You know what, though? I would say in the future, I would. I would do way more. But I would preface it, like, I don't. I'm not doing no features with nobody that I haven't had some food or coffee or a conversation with.

[Host]

Why is that? But a lot of artists don't do that. Like, they just like, he's hot or she's hot right now. I need to get a joint. Let me do this.

[Rory]

I'll send you the session.

[Host]

Miguel wants to go to dinner. Go have lunch at least. Let's sit down. Let's kick it, man.

[Miguel]

Because this is, like, my life. I put my heart into everything I do. It's really personal. None of this is, like, business. I mean, it's business. There's that part of it. But when it comes to the music part, I'm really trying. It's really effort. And then on top of that, then you're gonna ask me to post about it and then show for the video. And then do you a favor over here. If, If. If I. If any of that happens and then, like, the person is an. And I find it out too late. Yeah, it's happened. Where I'd be like, I don't ever want to be around that person. You know what I'm saying?

[Host]

Like, I'm not collabing with somebody that puts ketchup on eggs.

[Miguel]

Right. We can't do.

[Host]

No. We can't do nothing together.

[Rory]

Like, I don't anything else.

[Host]

Like, you know what? I'm booked. It's not. I'm not gonna be able to send that verse back.

[Miguel]

I just can't get on the same level. We don't see eye.

[Rory]

Sorry, J. Cole.

[Host]

I can't do it.

[Miguel]

Sorry, J.

[Host]

Cold.

[Miguel]

I'm sorry, bro.

[Rory]

Nah.

[Host]

No, but that makes sense, though. Cause a lot of people, you know, when you talking about collabing now, it's so easy to collab, like, you said, a dm. But if you don't sit down and connect with somebody, it's like you don't really feel like the energy is not, like, even to an extent. Like, the things that Rory and I do with guests. Like, we say, damn, I hate meeting. Like, I hate that we're having this conversation with you on camera for the first time. I would rather meet Miguel Manhattan.

[Miguel]

Like, oh, the Chinese food spot. Or we had a drink or whatever.

[Host]

It just makes. Everything is different after that. The energy, everything is different. But as far as making music, it's a whole different level of just chemistry when you're able to really sit down and get to know somebody, to connect with them.

[Miguel]

Yeah, I did get lucky, though. Like, Cole. Cole is one of those people where it was like. It just. We just locked in and he's actually a good person. You know, he's just a good person. I got lucky and there's. There's a couple, like, really significant points, and I have to say, I'm a very. I've been very lucky where I've actually really connected with, like, my significant, you know, like, collaborators. Mentors are good people. Yeah, I got lucky like that. There's a lot of people who don't get that. And at this point, I'm like, I've had it happen where I do a collaboration and, you know, it was the. It was a. It was the right thing in terms of this was a name at the time or they were having a moment, whatever. I mean, later on, I'm just like. I don't.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

You know. Really?

[Host]

Yeah. We don't really connect like that.

[Miguel]

Not really. You know, I mean, like, wish not. No. No ill will or anything at all. I don't really ever want to.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Respectfully, I'm like.

[Host]

I definitely feel that, though.

[Rory]

Yeah. It's interesting too, that, like, rappers kind of get the. The rap, no pun intended, that they're the ones that are standoffish or won't work with each other. R and B artists are that times 10. Like, if you go with the Coles, Kendricks, Drake, Big Sean, Wale, like, that class, they've all collaborated with each other. Now, if you would go with your class, which I. You. Frank weekend party next door. Like, yeah, R and B people, even with their graduating class, it never really with each other like that.

[Host]

It's.

[Miguel]

It's a trip. It's a trip. I was just having this conversation, too. I was. I was. We were talking about the difference in support also, because I can hear that class in the music and, you know, and it's like, I can look at it and be like, damn, like, I did my thing. We did our thing. Like, it's. It's in, like. I can hear how my approach is, like, really actually kind of affected. And it's. It's such a. It's a dope thing to see and to see everyone else, you know, see everyone else's influence and the shaping of the sound. I mean, we started Alternative R and B. There was no category for that. You know, it was like, we did that.

[Rory]

Yeah. There was no blog R and B at the time.

[Miguel]

No, we were the ones. Right. It was. And. And it is a shame to kind of. To think that we actually never really did. And I don't know what that. What that's about. I think about historically, you know, when. When soul music was in Detroit, when it was Philly or Detroit, there was a hub of. Of in a scene where writers and artists were working together. Stevie's all over all the Motown. Right.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

You know what I mean? Marvin Gaye was in a. You know, he was in a band. He was. They were all working together, travel together, travel together, on tours together. I still don't have an answer for why it doesn't happen.

[Rory]

I mean, I think with a lot of them, they had similar producers in common. Right. So they would be in sessions. Everyone was kind of running through the same system where. That's different now. And I think rappers also. It's a bit easier if we both walk into a studio and agree on a beat. Something can easily come out of that. Where I feel like some of the greater R B artists are so in tune with their production.

[Miguel]

Right.

[Rory]

Like they are producers as well. That can get weird. Like, if you and Frank walk into a studio, you're both going to have different directions as far as the production goes.

[Miguel]

The approach or the sonic or the sonic.

[Rory]

Whereas, you know, a loop beat with a soul sample. I. Cole and. And while I be like, this is great, let's go.

[Miguel]

Yeah. Like. Like banger.

[Rory]

I agree.

[Miguel]

That is going to go crazy.

[Rory]

So I think maybe that's where it could derive from. Just on the production side, because everyone's so hands on.

[Miguel]

Especially before too. We're talking about songwriters. Yeah. And crafters. Like I write and produce. Like, I produced a real music. I wrote that song. I mean, I wrote sure Thing. And they're not. It's not a verse also. It's also the approach. Like a crazy verse from an emcee is going to be like. Can kill the whole song.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

It's like, man, like, let me think. Like Nicki Minaj verse on Monster. Like her verse won the song. Yeah. You know, I'm saying two of the.

[Rory]

Greatest rappers of all time on that.

[Miguel]

But it's like a verse can go crazy for emcee, but for. For singing. Yeah, for. I don't know how, you know. Yeah, I think it can. I think now it's evolved where we could approach it that way. And I think it'd be interesting to explore it like that. But I know in the past, it was about. We're singer songwriters, you know, and we're producers, so it was about the song was the whole thing, and artists. So I wonder if there's something interesting there, though. You know, it's like, what if we just approach it as verses, right?

[Host]

You know, have you ever had to meet any of your idols or people that you looked up to and were, like, disappointed and, like, heartbroken, like, oh, this person is not really a good person, or, like, not what I thought it would be?

[Miguel]

Definitely ones where I wish we would have got on. Like, we could have found some, like, okay, I fuck with you. Like, on a personal.

[Rory]

Who did I.

[Miguel]

Not really. You know what? Honestly, I would almost say. I would wager that more it was like, me that it was you that it was me. Oh, am I the problem?

[Host]

I'm the widow.

[Miguel]

It was.

[Rory]

This was the eight years of disappearing where you had to learn.

[Miguel]

I needed to go do. I was the problem.

[Host]

I'm the drama.

[Rory]

So what was the scenario that you felt that way, that you looked back like, you know what? Damn.

[Host]

Like, I. That up? Yeah.

[Miguel]

No, no. I'll say this. I'll say this. This is one I like. I wish it would. And it wasn't because anyone was. Was when we were doing. When I was doing Kaleidoscope Dream, I was here at a Platinum Sound. I was over there for a long time when Platinum Sound was over on in Midtown. Shout out to Jerry, one legendary man. I mean, what happened in that studio in terms of just, like, the amount of fun and the songs and all that was incredible. And I was. We have finally had momentum, and Adorn was. Was having a moment, and we were finishing the album, and I got to work with Pharrell finally, and Pharrell came, and he spent some days with me, and. And I still look at those sessions, and I'm like, man, I really wish we would have found one. What we did doesn't fit the album. It doesn't. It, like, it would have never worked on Kaleidoscope Dream. And I'm. I'm. I'm clear about that. But also, like, I just wish I would have locked in with him more because he's a hero of mine, you know? And. And I always, like, just like, damn, I wish, like, was it me? Like, was I just like, too. And I was really adamant, too. I was like, I knew what I wanted.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

And I was really sure.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

I was like, I don't Think it's.

[Host]

A bad thing because that has to be commendable and respectable, especially for Pharrell to see a young artist so fixed on who they are and what they want and the sound that they want to create. I know what you mean, though, because it's like, dan, this is for real.

[Miguel]

Yeah. But I will say this, though. He did. He had. I mean, look, he's a visionary, and he came in and we cut this record that is a banger. I don't. I can't. Like, the hard drive that has the session on it is like. It's somewhere and in storage somewhere. But. But it. It's very much feels like a Prince record. But if I were to. If I. But me still, you know, but he came in with such a vision, and I don't think I was ready for that. I was like, how to clear a clear, different vision. And I've seen in subsequent interviews of his, they've asked some questions. Like, I mean, you could tell. I've thought about this. I've really thought about this.

[Host]

Yeah. This has been haunting you.

[Miguel]

Oh, bro. It's been on my belt.

[Host]

Like, man, like, why did you get eight years right?

[Miguel]

Like, why didn't we. I know. It was all that. Like, damn. It didn't happen.

[Rory]

If Kaleidoscope Dreams wasn't a classic, I'd say this should keep you.

[Host]

But you got it right with Kaleidoscope Dreams.

[Rory]

But would that have worked maybe more on Wild? I mean, that was kind of the stereotypical fan perspective of, like, all right, is he about to do his. His prince thing?

[Miguel]

He's going, yeah. He's going, no, no. I. I think, on the contrary, this was. This. I don't even know where this record would have fit, but I do think it would have probably, at the time, it probably would have hit. I think he was right.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

And I think based on what. What fans wanted, what's known about me and my taste and who I'm drawing from, my inspirations and whatnot, it would have made a lot of sense. And the record was a great record, but I just wanted to go a different direction.

[Rory]

And he spoke about it in interviews.

[Miguel]

As well, that no record specifically talked about other. He's talked about other situations where he's been in a room and he's like, you know, not everybody's ready to hear my vision. And the ones that do have listened, you know, he's like, more often than not, you know, have had great moments with them, and he. He didn't.

[Host]

He's talking about You.

[Rory]

Yeah. You were watching YouTube in your kitchen. Like, that's about me. This is about me.

[Host]

And even if not, you're gonna feel like that. Like, that's about me. Definitely.

[Miguel]

Yeah. Yeah. No, no, he definitely wasn't. And I think it might have been an interview before I. Even before I worked with him. But. But I think he was, like, referring to, like, maybe Justin or something at the time. And he's like, you know, not every time I go in and they're ready to hear what I. What I'm seeing, but when they trust me to just do the thing is, like, that's where. That's how we get this and that. And I think he was talking about Justin and whatnot. He might have mentioned Kendrick or something in it, but that is one of those ones where it wasn't either of us. It just didn't happen.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

And I always look at it. I'm like, fuck, man. I really wish it would happen again.

[Rory]

I think that speaks more to greatness and your vision. Like, for example, we definitely. We were talking when Jid dropped his record with Eminem and was like, this isn't on the album. And it made me go, oh, this Jid album has to be great. That he's so stuck on his vision.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Rory]

That this Eminem is not. Not what I'm trying to do with a project. It made me more excited about it.

[Miguel]

Valid.

[Rory]

Because to just leave off a Eminem verse, your album is like, you have a vision.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Rory]

The same way of like, damn, am I really about to just leave a Pharrell session and be like, nah.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Rory]

The.

[Miguel]

We did a couple other ones, and I've been meaning to hit him because he was telling me earlier that I should be leaning into just being Latino. And like, he's like, bro, who can do it? He was definitely, like. He was coaching, you know, he was like. And I wasn't in the place at the time also. I. I didn't feel like I had done the work to feel. Doing music in Spanish felt organic.

[Rory]

It just.

[Miguel]

It was too. Too big of a leap at the time. But he's like. He's like a whole. I mean, eight, maybe 10 years, actually, because after my sessions for Kaleidoscope Dream, we worked in, like, Nashville during, like, Bonnaroo or some like that. And he was like, bro, you gotta get on your Latin shit hard. And he cooked up some. Some like, you know those rhythms.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

And I just wasn't ready for it. Yeah. But then fast forward eight years later, this. On this album, Kyle's like I'm definitely the intro. Am I? Yeah, yeah. I'm in it. And I've been waiting for for the time when I see him and I'm like, you were right bro. I just wasn't ready. Yeah, yeah. Because this album definitely got no one.

[Rory]

You still have that loaded up in your MPC the you cooked up in that shit.

[Miguel]

I'm like, where is that now it's time.

[Host]

I'm tearing this storage up. Like I gotta find this hard drive.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Host]

The NBA on Prime tips off with.

[Miguel]

Their debut double header.

[Host]

First up, Boston brings the action to the Garden as the Celtics face the Knicks. Then out west it's a battle of the superpowers. Lakers try to poster the relentless pace of the Timberwolves. Celtics, Knicks, Timberwolves, Lakers Cover starts tomorrow at 7pm Eastern only on prom.

[Rory]

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[Rory]

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[Host]

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[Rory]

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[Rory]

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[Rory]

Do you think at in 2025 something like in adorn could work or do you think the landscape has just changed? Like, I feel like timeless records pre Covid were the definition timeless. This could have been at any time and it would have worked. I feel like that is kind of left and I'm not sure if it's an algorithm thing. I don't know if it's an attention span thing. I don't know if it's just a lack of feeling in music. But those timeless records, I don't know if you can place them in this time now and they would get the same reaction. Like, would adorn just be just, oh, that's an amazing record. But is it getting the legs that it would deserve in this time?

[Miguel]

I. I have. I kind of have given up on anal. I think there's so many variables and like the timing of rec of songs and like it has so much to do with all of. All of these different variables. Could it? Sure it could. Would it? I don't know. Yeah, I know. I know sure thing. I put that record out when I wrote. I wrote sure thing when I was 18 years old. 19.

[Host]

You know what I wrote when I was 18? A letter to my principal.

[Miguel]

My bad.

[Host]

What the fuck?

[Miguel]

I will not.

[Host]

That's crazy. At 18, you wrote that record?

[Miguel]

Yeah, you know, and it did good at the time, but I was on a record label called Jive Records at the time. The promo department didn't work records from black artists, black music in the way that maybe. And also R and B music was not necessarily a pop genre.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

So. And I was a new artist. So I said, I'm giving you all these, like, variables. I'm like, that record went number one two years ago, a whole decade more after it was written and published and out in the. In the thing. And even though it did. It did numbers when it came out, the variables didn't line up for it to be a number one record or what have you. And then. And then all of a sudden, you know, random TikTok person does his thing with the video, does it, puts it in a song and then another person. Hi. Like, I could. I can't put, like.

[Host]

How does that make you feel as an artist, though? Like, for some random TikTok girl to be doing a makeup tutorial with your record playing? And then now it's going crazy on the charts again after. Like, you don't look at that.

[Miguel]

Like, bro, it wasn't even the original video. That shit went crazy on. I don't even. It doesn't make sense to me. It's like a. It's like a girl in a van, like, if she was getting kidnapped has nothing to do do.

[Host]

That wasn't your vision at all, bro.

[Miguel]

It. It makes no sense. Like, if I was ever getting kidnapped, you know.

[Rory]

Kid never thought it was a sure thing.

[Host]

He did.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Host]

And somehow this.

[Miguel]

That's the. That's the video that made someone else create something. And I'm like, okay. I don't. Yeah, I. I don't know if ador.

[Rory]

Which is kind of nuts, cuz it's like. It's the Steve Lacy effect of like.

[Miguel]

Yeah. I mean, man, should I be upset.

[Rory]

Or should I be happy? Like, yes, I'm happy that now my music is out there, but it's bringing in an audience that doesn't particularly care about my artist.

[Miguel]

They show up and they're like, we.

[Host]

Just want that song.

[Miguel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I throw somebody's phone off stage, the same, you know, saying, you better know my lyrics now.

[Rory]

I mean, do you think that may Happen in the upcoming tour with this project that you'll get maybe some younger.

[Miguel]

Kids that know the shit off the older songs. Yeah, they'll be like, play. Sure thing. Yeah, for sure. It's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. I kind of. I am kind of lucky in this way though, that I do have a core audience that have been with me since. Since all I want is you. Since you know, enough so that'll. That I feel like will fill in the gaps. The crazy thing I wonder is if Adorn will have a moment coming back.

[Host]

Oh, I think so.

[Miguel]

Yeah. I'm like coming back, I'm like, oh, they're just. They're just discovering. All I want is you. Wait till they get to Kaleidoscope Dream. Wait till, you know, it's like, wait till they get to.

[Rory]

So it's gonna take one like Royal Wedding.

[Miguel]

Exactly.

[Rory]

It's a. Some Saudi wedding.

[Host]

Ador's number one. What?

[Rory]

But I mean, your team is here now and you guys can have this one for free on. On the tour. Maybe you set up some type of thing. You know, Chris Brown brings like a fan on stage. Maybe you kidnap a fan at the end of every show in the van and like that just becomes a thing. Just Ricky van drives on stage and then you kidnap a child.

[Miguel]

I think the Ricky Van just all of. Just anything that looks real sus. And we put somebody in, tie them up. Yeah, it's gonna go.

[Host]

It's gonna fucking go viral.

[Rory]

I know your intentions were not this at all in the song how many drinks? But in 2025, how do you think.

[Miguel]

That is a consent record?

[Rory]

We know it's a consent record.

[Host]

We know that in 2025.

[Miguel]

How many drinks.

[Host]

It was a question.

[Rory]

Would it take you?

[Miguel]

How many? Are we talking three? Are we talking two? That is posing a question. Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Even I started to get everyone's mind warped into hyper sensitive shit because when Kaleidoscope Dreams came out, that would have never even crossed my mind. That would come across that way. But then through Covid, when your mind changes and yeah, you've been. Everybody's internalizing everything, being sensitive.

[Host]

Everybody's a victim.

[Rory]

I go back to this, I'm like, well, this could be misconstrued.

[Miguel]

It could be definitely twisted. It was twisted for a second.

[Rory]

It's not quite Rick Ross. I dropped a Molly on a drink.

[Miguel]

Yeah, no, it's not that.

[Host]

Yeah, no, it definitely wasn't that.

[Miguel]

It's not that.

[Host]

Yeah, it wasn't that. But in 2025, I mean, it almost like, when Rory said it early, I was like, you know what's crazy? It almost feels. It's almost like, should I even play this record? Like, if I'm in a car with some girls, it's like, do I put this on? Because it's just a different world. Everybody. Nobody understands context. Or even if they do understand it, they don't care.

[Rory]

Right?

[Host]

They want to be upset. They want to be victims. They want to know this is. We cannot listen to this. It's like, bro, that's not what this song is about.

[Miguel]

It's not. Nah, I think, I think.

[Host]

And do you perform that song on tour? Hell yeah.

[Rory]

I mean, are you still in contact with the. That you drop kicked?

[Miguel]

Oh, my goodness, no.

[Rory]

Just while we're on this topic.

[Miguel]

I haven't. I have not. You know, where is she now? Check in with her, though. We do need to check in. I do. I. I do know that, that she was okay, you know, after. I, I think it is. It's been ample time to check in.

[Host]

But you are going back on the road?

[Miguel]

We'll be back on tour in February for sure. I play the Forum for the first time in my hometown. Oh, yeah? Yeah, we do the Forum in la. So I'm excited.

[Host]

Which city is your favorite? Like your favorite city to perform in, like, on tour?

[Miguel]

It's hard to say. I would say New York has always been a special place for me. My, my career really starts on the East Coast. Like, yeah, they weren't playing. They didn't play any of my records on the West Coast. My first album, really. None of those songs were on the radio in la. In the Bay, they did, though. Big shout out to the Bay.

[Host]

Okay.

[Miguel]

Bay Area may be one of my, my, my top ones. And look, I am born and raised in la. I will always rep Los Angeles. That's my city, or what have you. But we're just not known for having great shows. Like crowd. The crowds in la.

[Host]

Because we say that when we did some shows in la, it's like the crowd is just a little more laid back and quiet and kind of just staring at you in Cali. Like, why is that? Yeah, is it that we always say. We always joke and say everybody's high.

[Miguel]

But everybody's high in the Bay too, though.

[Rory]

Yeah, everybody's high everywhere.

[Miguel]

Yeah. At a show.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. Gotta be high. But it's just something about LA though, where it's just like the energy is always more reserved.

[Miguel]

I. I believe you will find more than any artists upset at their shows, like video of Them being like, this is like, y' all better. Like, come on, like get.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

In. In Los Angeles. I just think it's. It's just a cultural like laid back thing, I guess about.

[Rory]

Because even I feel like New York has the stereotype of like the too cool crowd. But I always felt that was misjudged. Like, I think New York crowd.

[Miguel]

New York was crazy.

[Host]

Yeah. New York is lit.

[Rory]

LA may be the only stereotype that I think is true with crowds.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I've been rap shows, R B shows, rock shows, podcast. Like everyone is just fucking standing there. It's like, why'd you buy a ticket? Yeah, you don't want to dance.

[Miguel]

Actually, the last show I went to in la, that was that. That Cracked was a turnstile show.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Miguel]

And I was in the pit for the most of that show, but that was a dope one. And this is before their newest album, actually. Great album.

[Rory]

Did anyone in the pit go, oh, is that Miguel?

[Miguel]

Hell no. No.

[Rory]

Miguel.

[Miguel]

I didn't give a fuck.

[Host]

That ain't Miguel.

[Miguel]

They're just like, go hard.

[Host]

Do you do that often, though? Do you go like, see other artists, like, to their live shows? As a fan, just kind of like look at the set and.

[Miguel]

Yes, yes. And I don't. I. I prefer to be in it. Like, I don't want to be backstage. No, I'm not trying to be. I don't want to do that side of stage. Sound is trash.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

I want to go listen and like absorb and enjoy the show and like really feel it, you know? That's just the. I mean, I made me forget, like, that's the beauty of. Of getting together and listening to great is like you're around people. You're around people enjoying the. A moment. That's what our.

[Host]

The.

[Miguel]

They just brought me on, man. I've been excited about this. I'm scholar in residence at NYU for this semester. Yeah. I'm doing a course entitled Speaking Chaos to Power.

[Host]

Okay.

[Miguel]

Which is just about across the board, taking all of our endeavors and making sure that we're using it in a way that's equitable, which I feel like is the right time for that. But especially in music across the arts, across all mediums. I think really being intentional about how we're organizing and molding and shaping the industries of IP and utilizing IP and how that IP should remain in the power of the creators. And also the systems by which that IP gets distributed and monetized should be owned and operated by the creators. I think it's that time where it's no longer other entrepreneurs then, you know, building businesses off of ip. I think it should be artist owned is important. So anyway, built a whole course around that. But this, I don't even know. I was going. We were talking about. Oh, oh. It's the moments of getting together and organizing. I mean, these are the beginnings of it. Our shows, like, go to your. Like, support your art. Go to your artist shows, enjoy them. That is the function of art.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

Art brings people together around emotion, which erases the differences. Creed, color, religious belief, ethnic background. All of that completely disappears when you're in the presence of art. That's why you'll go look at a painting and sit and just stare at that bitch and just be like, I don't know who this artist?

[Host]

How did somebody do. Yeah, how did they create this?

[Miguel]

I fuck with this. Or you listen to a poet who's from a completely different walk of life and you're like, this is just. I feel this.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

Like last night I was at the Blue Note. I watched a poet by the name of Queen Sheba. She's from Atlanta, and she did an amazing piece last night, Moving. And I'm like, man, how often do we go see poetry anymore? And like, how often are we going. So I think about that just to say, like, no, like, I go to shows to enjoy and absorb the emotion. That's like, that's what it's about.

[Rory]

Yeah. Like, average live music beats good recorded music.

[Miguel]

Yo, like, any day, any day, just.

[Rory]

If you would just walk past somebody in Washington Square park and they just playing, that's going to feel better than good recorded music. That's at any moment of professionals.

[Miguel]

Also, I love New Orleans. I love being one of the greatest.

[Rory]

One of my favorite cities. And it's the only city in the States where you feel like you're not. Not in the States.

[Miguel]

Yeah, exactly. It feels like a whole other. Whole other place. So to answer your question, New Orleans is one of them. New York for sure. London's been really good to me. South Africa is great. Australia, okay. Yeah, yeah. Australia is always really good. Those are some big ones.

[Rory]

Now that I know your career started in New York, more or less, and you're recording out here, what were some of the spots you were going to in 2010 in. In New York? Yeah. I'm curious what the Miguel, like, club run was like. Like, was he at up and Down?

[Miguel]

I was. I was gonna say up and Down.

[Host]

Up and Down. Like, I walked past Miguel a few times in the club. I'm like, is that Miguel like this. He's just like, yeah, up and down.

[Miguel]

Yeah, up and down was a. Was the.

[Host]

No, that was like. That's a legendary spot. I've definitely seen Miguel, like, maybe leaving Capella one night, getting something to eat.

[Miguel]

Capella for sure. Was the. Was the go to late night. Always. We still go there. The. The tacos there. They had to bring them back because they got rid of them for a second. You've never been a Capella and you've been in the city. Go there. Yeah.

[Rory]

I think like a Vashti Santos set. Maybe I've seen you for sure. Seen you at.

[Miguel]

For sure. Where have we been?

[Host]

New York is so different.

[Rory]

Maybe I'm trying to reminisce. We don't have these things.

[Host]

We don't have these things anymore.

[Miguel]

Yeah, it's kind of. It's kind of changed.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

Now people are still outside, though. Like, what.

[Host]

What are people doing outside in New York?

[Miguel]

It's not the same. It's not the same.

[Host]

They're bringing one oak back. Because New York is so terrible now.

[Miguel]

Yeah. I feel like New York has kind of transitioned to more like private parties. It's like. Yeah, it's got more like private shit. Yeah.

[Host]

Members clubs, like, you know, the Soho Houses and things like that.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Host]

Like, that's what people do, I guess.

[Miguel]

I went to a spot. I'm trying to think. The last dinner we did was at the. I just had dinner with. With Nikki over there, one of my best friends. What was that spot? But yes, the private. The private clubs is going crazy.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

Big time.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

The private spots.

[Rory]

How's. How has fatherhood changed your brain in the last year?

[Host]

I know how it changed his.

[Miguel]

Yeah. I never had BRO.

[Rory]

Me too.

[Miguel]

My is just. And they. The weird thing is they come and they go. It's like they're in. And then they'll be like, all right, I'm chilling.

[Rory]

Some days I wake up with more grays and then they disappear.

[Miguel]

Yeah. Yeah. They'd be like. Like, I'm coming, though. Like, that's it.

[Rory]

The more my daughter kicks me in the face at night, the more the gray is serious.

[Miguel]

Yeah, I'm getting that right now. Big time. The wake up with a slap. Yeah. I never thought I'd appreciate it so much, but I love it.

[Rory]

Best wake up ever.

[Miguel]

Dad. Brain is a real thing.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

I'm forgetting all the shit all the time. I didn't know I could be this tired and just still be like, all right, well, make it work. I have a tremendous appreciation for my Parents in a. In a very different way.

[Rory]

For sure.

[Miguel]

You know, we were talking about this in the kitchen is like, people do say that. It's like, you do feel that way. It's like the most life changing thing, but it is scary.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

I look at the world differently. I feel a big responsibility to both, like, try and do something about what I see, because it's going to be his. And I also am like the most angry and protective that I've ever been, which I think is a. It's a sign of maturity, oddly. I'm like, oh, no, you actually. It's not all good out here. And everything is going to be all right just because it's going to be all right, you know? And I think I took that. I was very much of. In that, like, manifested. It's gonna be good. Yeah. It's like, nah, you're gonna have to make that shit happen.

[Rory]

Yeah. It's crazy, the. The feelings of going from feeling so insignificant once you have a child because this is the most important thing to.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Wow.

[Rory]

I am the most important person because I'm teaching. My dumbass is teaching you everything you need to know. And it's like, am I. Should I be doing this?

[Miguel]

Yeah, it'll have you questioning. I was tripping that they just gave us the baby after, after he was born. Like, all right, go home. I was like, that's it. You're not gonna show me how to get him into this car.

[Host]

How do you turn it on?

[Miguel]

Like, how do. Yeah, like, Like, I'm like, am I.

[Rory]

Going to break him?

[Miguel]

Like, can we. Like, is it. It's. It's a. It really.

[Rory]

They brought us to, like, our, you know, the room after she gave birth, and they just put Amara in the. And closed the door. We was like, wait, there's like, peace.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Rory]

No, no, no. Come back. I need some questions.

[Host]

Show me how.

[Miguel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How did you wrap them up like that? Okay. Can you at least show me that one more time? Yeah, it's. It's. I do feel and I don't want to say the word that I was going to say is inadequate, but it's not that I feel inadequate. I feel. I'm aware that I don't have the answers.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

You know, and we were talking about that, like, damn shit. Because. Because my son is one, so he's gonna be at. And you're saying your daughter's two. Daughter. Yeah, two. Yeah. Yeah. He. When he starts asking those questions. I don't know.

[Host]

I don't know, son. I really don't know.

[Miguel]

But you know what, though? I will say that I will feel comfortable saying, I don't know, son. Let me. Let's look it up. You know, like, I do feel good about that. I don't feel like I have to have the answer.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Rory]

To that place. Because for the first, like, few months where, you know, she was really starting to have her, like, real thoughts and questions I was so insecure of, like, I don't know anything. Like, she's asking simple and profound questions. I'm like, I don't fucking know. Now I've gotten more comfortable. Comfortable with saying, I don't know.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Like, I have no. And I feel like that prepares them as well, because she's not gonna know. Yeah. And sometimes you're like, I don't know.

[Miguel]

Yeah, let's figure it out. Let's find out. Yeah. I think that's the opportunity. I will probably be hitting Chad gbt, though. I'll be like, so why is the moon so big today? I'm like, I don't know. That's a good question. Yeah.

[Host]

So I'm listening to this. This. This project. Well, back to the, you know, the lack of features. I don't know if. Were there any features on this project?

[Miguel]

Just George Clinton in the very end, which is a dream.

[Host]

He just threw.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Host]

You know, he just threw George Clinton.

[Miguel]

Only. Not just. I'm sorry, only George Clinton. Yeah. And that's intentional, for sure. Good thoughts, Bad Thoughts has been a big. Had a big impact in my life. Has had a big impact in my life. And because this album kind of like. Like, represents. I feel like a turning point for me. It's. It's personal. I wanted. I wanted it to be just about the overarching, the. Where I'm at, you know, and just George is just his words. And in that song, if you've never listen. Heard good thoughts, bad thoughts. The first. The first two and a half, three minutes is just soloing, and then the second half is George Clinton just speaking deep, deep truth. Yeah. The kind of truth that's like a breath of fresh air and also, like, feels like it's ominous. It's like an ominous truth that stuck with me since the very first time I heard it. And a lot of those. A lot of that is a core, is like core belief for me. Travel like a king, you know, it's like your thoughts, like, careful of the plant seeds you plant in your mind, because seeds grow according to their kind, you know, it's like deep things that resonate with me. And things that I, you know, want to instill in my son. And I think it is those core beliefs that really helped push me push through some of the change in this album that I was. I just. It was a dream to have him on the album, and it all the more makes him being on my last song, which is called a beautiful. I'm sorry. I feel. Karma. Karma. It makes it even more important. So, yeah, he.

[Rory]

He.

[Miguel]

He blessed me. Blessed me there as a.

[Host]

As a. As a. As a musician and songwriter. What is Miguel's. What is your greatest one song? Greatest. Not yours. And just the greatest song you ever heard.

[Miguel]

Ever heard. I'm telling you, this is my favorite song of all time, so. Good Thoughts, Bad Thoughts by Funkadelic. Great. One of the greatest songs of all time. One of my top. And it's. It's not just the second half. It is. The first half feels. It's like, transcendent. It's transcending. You know, it's. You're. You can close your eyes and it's. It's going to take you to a whole other place.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

And then the second half is like a double down on, like, just belief systems. And to think that it came at a time in the time that it came is just like, just so far ahead, you know?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

You know, George is a visionary, and, I mean, absolutely made. Just. That's gonna last forever and ever and ever. So.

[Rory]

Yeah, that makes so much sense, though, that. That would be. Because I feel like Kaleidoscope Dreams even is like a continuation of Maggot Brain.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Rory]

More or less. It is like. Yeah, it is very much Funkadelic. Maggot Brain to me would be Kaleidoscope Dreams of that time. So. Yeah, it does make a lot of sense. How did that whole, you know, relationship with him even.

[Miguel]

How did that happen, bro? How did that with George? Did they just reach out because he was working on something. He was working on something? Yeah.

[Host]

That's crazy.

[Miguel]

Yeah. Yeah. It was just kind of.

[Rory]

He wanted me to do something.

[Host]

That's wild.

[Miguel]

It was one of those, you know.

[Rory]

Like, is this a prank call type of moment.

[Miguel]

Yeah, it was. It was like that. It's like, really?

[Host]

Are you sure, George? Right? Yeah.

[Miguel]

So. So, yeah, it just came about that. He was working on a project, and his team reached out, and I was like, tell him Good Thoughts, Bad Thoughts is like my. One of my favorite songs of all time. And it's, like, changed my life. And I told him the story how I heard the song the first time I was at Coachella. I was driving windows down. I don't know who left this CD in my car. Back. This is back before when Coachella was still in electronic music. Music and arts. You know, it was like electronic festival.

[Host]

And that was something totally different.

[Miguel]

Yeah, very different. Very different. Very different. And I was coming from a long night. I did all kind of shit. And I was driving back to my little shitty motel that I found last minute, and I popped the CD in just. Cause I was like, windows are down. I'm high. Do not advise anyone doing this.

[Rory]

You know, it's a wild night when you don't even know who left the CD in your car.

[Miguel]

Oh, I don't know. I still to this day, don't know who left that CD in my car. But I put this.

[Host]

And I.

[Miguel]

And the first thing that came. Came on was this. And comes in kind of soft. It kind of creeps in. And after a long night, it was like, you're high, the window's down, the sun is coming up. I've got, like, the mountains on my. On my right, and the sun is coming up on the left. And I'm just like. The wind is blowing, but it's hot because you're in, you know, India desert.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

And this guitar comes in and it's like magic. And I'm just going. And I'm driving. It's taken a long time to get there. I'm driving for some time, and it feels good. And all of a sudden, travel like a king. And I'm like. I swerve. I'm like. Because it's jarring. It's kind of scary. Yeah. But I get. I gained control of the car almost, you know, I crash. Almost crash out, get. Get control of the car. And I, you know, tighten up. And in that time, I must have been really too high. So it sobered me up one.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

But it also locked me in. And I listened to just George Clinton just speaking the. Just deep, deep truth. And that hit me so hard. And it's still to this day. Again, it's something that I'll play for my son. And it's one of those songs that I'll just always be like. It's.

[Host]

Yeah. It stuck with you.

[Miguel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rory]

No, that's beautiful. Are you a Ms. Rachel family? Are you. What's. What's your go to with screen time?

[Miguel]

Screen time for him?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

No screen time. Love it right now. No screen time.

[Rory]

You say that now.

[Miguel]

I. I know you're gonna give in. No, I'm counting down the Days. I'm like, how. When can we start doing. Yeah, screen time, please?

[Rory]

Because, yeah, sometimes wait until you're in Holland Tunnel traffic. It's like, all right, take the iPad.

[Miguel]

Yeah, Here, here. This is. Here, Just take it, Take it. Yeah, yeah. He's. He's definitely trying. I need to get, like, a disguise, like a book or something. Like something to make it not look like it's a phone, because he knows exactly what this is, and he's like, just crazy. Oh, my God. He's like. I mean, he picks it up and moves his thumb around like he knows what he's doing. I'm like, all right.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Before we let you go, I have kind of a random yet nerdy question. What is your relationship with Blue like, these days?

[Miguel]

Man, Blue is for those of you that don't know. Blue and I go back to high school. Yeah, we went to high school together. And, I mean, we talk on text here and there, but we actually haven't kicked it in a long time. But that's my brother. Like, I've. He's. That's my brother and one of the most talented. This is a. If you have not listened to Below the Heavens, go do yourself a favor and listen to a classic album called Below the Heavens.

[Rory]

Man.

[Miguel]

He's still crushing with Exile. Him in exile. You know, we're like, we. It's just online text message, kind of. Kind of like keeping up. But there's always, like, one or two things in a year that I'll catch him at. It's either an anniversary that we get to kick it, or it'll be like a little family hang. It'll be me, B. Our boy, B. He's like, kind of like our bigger brother figure growing up. But, yeah, we'll have a hang once or twice in a year, but we haven't kicked it in a long, long time. Yeah. As.

[Rory]

As a fan, I would love for a. A Blue and Miguel EP at some point.

[Miguel]

I honestly feel. You know what? Me too.

[Rory]

Like, I think that would be incredible.

[Miguel]

Especially in this time. I. I absolutely was like, we. We've been, you know, just like, keep keeping up a little more regular. I feel like it's like, it's leaning.

[Rory]

That way when it's supposed to happen with timing.

[Miguel]

Also. Also. Because, you know. Know, when. When he. When he found out that I was, you know, having a son or whatever, he was just. He's. He has some kids as well. That. That's a whole other thing, too. When your friends become parents and you're also Parents. It's like, okay, yeah, you just start to. And you look at life different. You know, you look at the journey. You're like, ah. So it makes you want to lock in even more.

[Host]

Who gave us kids?

[Miguel]

Like, how did they let us do this? It's crazy. It's crazy. So, yeah, I would love. I would love that. Yeah, I think it would be really special. Yeah, it would be really special.

[Rory]

Is there any producers that you haven't worked with that you do want to work with outside of you and Pharrell working again at some point?

[Miguel]

Yeah. Right, right. There's a lot, man. I've been blessed to be able to do this kind of self sustainably and. And then work with a lot of incredible, you know, incredible producers along the way already. I've never done any music with shit. I want to do something with Trent.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Miguel]

Fly Low. We've been talking about doing music for some time. I think Fly Low is one I've already. I like. Dave knows Dave Siddick is on. On my last two albums. He's. We've done work together and he was really integral in helping me get my mind around this album. But I'd love to do a full project with Dave sitting. Jeff. I'd love to do a lot more with Jeff Bhasker. That's. That's also a brother and like friend and he's just incredible. I want to do something like Primo. Gotta do it. We gotta do a full one.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

Because he's been gracious enough to have me on some stuff before.

[Rory]

And that's why I love. Because Primo would lock a week out and just. He's a legend, but also will be like, yo, let's just work for weeks.

[Miguel]

Just do it. Yeah. Yeah. Prem will do that. He'll for sure, for sure do that.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

We have yet to do that. Prem. I know, I know. We need to do that.

[Rory]

Have you worked with 1500 and nothing like ransom? Like being a LA native, I feel like that's such a no brainer that you would be you and Rance. Like, you would.

[Miguel]

That is. That's. That is one of those ones where I'm like, yeah, why hasn't that happened? Why hasn't it? You're right. That's actually one of those ones that I always for. It's crazy because when you're at home, you forget. It's kind of like going to like fashion week.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Miguel]

You like run into everybody. You're like, damn. But we live in the same city.

[Host]

Right here every day.

[Miguel]

But we're kicking it the hardest out here. Yeah. You know, but that is A yes. Yes. 1500 or nothing. We have. We haven't done a single record together.

[Host]

Yeah. That's wild.

[Rory]

It's crazy.

[Miguel]

We need to change that. We need to change that.

[Rory]

And I mean, even just you and James on the writing side as well would be incredible.

[Miguel]

That's one of those. That's another one. And I think James. The reason why is because I always catch James like a one, like one off kind of vibe. And it's like, let's get one in. And what happens, what needs to happen is to lock in with James like early and like the whole process. Be like, okay, we're working together through the whole process. I think that'd be the better one. We said that the last time. We actually.

[Rory]

Yeah, you gotta to. You have to catch them at like a convention where you buy samurai swords or something.

[Miguel]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

You gotta go in his world.

[Miguel]

Yeah, it's very, very true. I gotta catch him on a Japan trip or something.

[Host]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Rory]

Yeah. I think, you know, ID would be incredible too.

[Miguel]

That's man.

[Rory]

That's something that I also have.

[Miguel]

Like, why is Miguel no id?

[Rory]

Never no id.

[Miguel]

I'm. I'm. There's. There's people that I'm not thinking of right now. Again, dad brain is a real thing. But we've. We've also talked. We've also spoke before. Like, no Id, like, we've been in the. Said I'm a massive fan. I'm like, we've been in touch. Just haven't. It just hasn't happened yet. We'd love that to happen.

[Rory]

Because artists are too stubborn, man. They don't want to send the first text of like, hey, let's follow up and actually work.

[Miguel]

Yeah, you know, it's true though. Yeah, it's true. It's true.

[Rory]

It's artists ego, but yeah, I get it.

[Miguel]

I wouldn't. I wouldn't. For me, I wouldn't say ego. It's just that I forget. I mean, seriously, I literally forget. And you know what I mean? I have a thing about asking people to do anything. Like I. I hate to ask people for anything. Am I a burden?

[Host]

I'm the same.

[Rory]

I don't.

[Miguel]

I don't want to ask. Like, I feel bad. I'm like, ah. Because I never want to make anyone feel uncomfortable. And then also it's all super personal. And then so there's like a little.

[Host]

Bit of like everybody else that's asking for something and you just like, I don't want to add to that.

[Miguel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So. But I. But I'm working on it. For sure. I am. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rory]

Do we think the R and B rap hook combo will come back? Everything reinvents itself. I feel like that 16 R&B hook. 16 R&B hook has kind of disappeared.

[Host]

Is.

[Rory]

Is.

[Host]

Is gone.

[Miguel]

Yeah. Oh, no, I think it's still. I think it's still room. Excuse me. I think it's still room for that.

[Host]

Oh, I definitely think artists don't do it.

[Rory]

Yeah, that's. That's kind of disappeared.

[Miguel]

Well, look, selfishly, I'll say that it.

[Rory]

It.

[Miguel]

To a degree. I'm not. I'm not the. I'm not the most for that. Only because it. It sort of relegates the R B part and the singer part is like. You just do the hook and then we do the verse. Yeah, that. But, yeah, I. I do miss some of it. You know, I do miss some of it. So, yeah, I think an iteration of that is necessary. It's going to come back. I might be behind it. I don't know.

[Host]

Oh, that.

[Miguel]

I can see it.

[Rory]

You've had a few good ones.

[Miguel]

Yeah, you've had.

[Host]

You've had a few that look good.

[Miguel]

I'm saying, like. Like, I. I've definitely, like, floated the idea of, like, just executive producing an entire album with all female MCs and where I just do the hook or we bring in people to do the hook and just like. Yeah, I like the yard.

[Rory]

And I mean, even if it's not as structured as. Insert first here.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Rory]

But, yeah, I think it's needed.

[Miguel]

Right.

[Host]

That's interesting.

[Miguel]

I think it will bang.

[Host]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Miguel]

Yeah.

[Host]

All right. The album. October 23rd.

[Miguel]

October 23rd. Kyle's the album. My fifth studio album. And we'll go out on the road in February, so pull up. Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Get your tickets to see Miguel. One of the most talented. We gotta support real musicians, real artists. Miguel, it was a pleasure meeting you, talking to you finally. We've crossed paths before, but this was like our first official hang. Yeah, yeah. Like, so. It's good to see you. Album sounds incredible.

[Miguel]

Thank you, bro.

[Host]

Thank you for helping me clean the crib last night. I appreciate that.

[Miguel]

Spotless now.

[Host]

Spotless. I can have everybody over there.

[Rory]

It's been dirty for eight years.

[Host]

I've been waiting for Miguel. I'm sorry, man. It's been a pigment for eight years, but now it's spotless. Thanks to Miguel. Miguel.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Thank you.

[Host]

And I'm definitely gonna catch you when you're on the road. Gotta come see the show.

[Miguel]

Yes. Love to have you guys.

[Host]

I'm that nigga. He's just ginger. That's Miguel.

[Miguel]

Hey.

[Host]

Wednesdays on BET, an all new episode of 106 in Sports from executive producers LeBron James and Maverick Carter. Ashley Nicole Moss and Cam Newton break down top moments in sports, culture and Entertainment. Check out 106 in sports on BET and next day on BET Plus.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. Okay, let's talk holiday shopping. When you want to make the most of your Money, head to PayPal's app before you check out. They give you the flexibility to pay in four no fees, no interest. And this is big. Bigger than the 12 foot snowman on your lawn right now. You can get 5% cash back when you pay later with PayPal. So whether it's the must have merch or for that signed jersey you've been eyeing, PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday. Save this offer in the PayPal app expires 1231. See paypal.com promoterms Subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com payin4paypal inc.nmls910457 what's up everybody?

[Rory]

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[Rory]

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[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Get ready to power up your play.

[Miguel]

With Nintendo Switch 2.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Power up the visuals with 4K support and a bigger, more visual, vivid screen.

[Miguel]

Power of the fun with exclusive new games like Mario Kart World and Donkey Kong bonanza.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Nintendo Switch 2 all together, anytime anywhere.

[Miguel]

Games rated E to E10 plus games and systems sold separately. Compatible TV required for 4K display. This is an iHeart podcast.