Checking In With Trevor Jackson

Summary

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New Rory & MAL: "Checking In With Trevor Jackson"

Release Date: October 2, 2025
Guest: Trevor Jackson
Hosts: Rory & Mal

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Episode Overview

This episode of New Rory & MAL features multi-talented performer Trevor Jackson, known as a singer, songwriter, actor, and former child Broadway star. The conversation covers Trevor's new music, especially his breakup-themed EP "I Love You," the journey of growing up in the spotlight, lessons learned from showbiz, navigating acting and music careers, his new role on Grey’s Anatomy, and deeper reflections on self-worth, therapy, and creativity in a world shifting toward AI.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Trevor’s Latest Project: The "I Love You" EP and Album

• Trevor is releasing a new EP, "I Love You" (out October 3), as the first part of a series leading up to his breakup album, I Love You, Goodbye.
• Authenticity: The album was written in the wake of a breakup and a major surgery (Achilles tear), with raw, immediate emotion.
  • "I wrote it so close to my breakup in such an honest way." — Trevor Jackson [03:54]
  • "It was the quickest album I've ever made. I wrote the album in like two and a half weeks." — Trevor [10:28]
• The last words from his ex ("I love you, goodbye") became the project's theme.
• Trevor shares he takes accountability for his role in the relationship:
  • “Nobody did one thing or the other. It just wasn’t right… where I am now, I would go through the pain again a million times.” — Trevor [05:15]

2. From Child Star to Versatile Artist

• Trevor recounts performing as young Simba in The Lion King on Broadway at only 8 years old.
  • “My mom knew, and she had a dinner at my grandmother’s house… She’s like, ‘We’re going to have to leave soon because you’re going to be in The Lion King’… and I felt like we did it.” — Trevor [07:46]
• He attributes his grounded nature to family support, never creating "for anybody’s approval." [06:19]

3. Navigating Music and Acting Careers

• Trevor pushes against being boxed in as an "R&B artist," seeing himself as a global, genre-bending musician.
  • “My goal is to not be R&B... I want to make music that... promotes freedom with everything that I do.” — Trevor [09:56]
• Describes music as more personal than acting, emphasizing it's his "therapy" and source of healing.
  • "When I’m acting, I’m acting as someone else… but if I’m writing my music, it’s so personal and it’s so real. And it saved me." — Trevor [10:28]
• Discusses challenges of finding his own sound after being signed young and molded by industry expectations.
  • “I had to find my voice… I wouldn’t change anything, man.” — Trevor [13:11]

4. The Reality of Growing Up in Showbiz

• Trevor addresses missing out on moments of gratitude when younger but now reflects on it with maturity.
  • "When I was younger... there was a time where I wasn’t as grateful as I should have been in the positions that I was at... I get to do those things, I don’t have to do those." [19:26]
• The hosts discuss the pressure to pick one talent, with Trevor embracing his multi-faceted identity.
  • “Why in any other field... is that different? I can sing just as good as I can act.” — Trevor [18:32]
  • “There’s a such thing as being too talented… sometimes people are kinda like, ‘pick one.’” — Rory [18:42]

5. Therapy, Accountability, and Black Masculinity

• All agree on the importance of therapy—especially for Black men—removing the stigma of seeking mental health help.
  • "It’s almost like you’re saying something’s wrong with me."
  • "It’s cleansing the mind..." [21:24-21:46]
• Trevor credits therapy and self-reflection for resilience and not letting the industry destroy his sense of self.

6. Acting on Grey’s Anatomy & More

• Trevor joined Grey’s Anatomy, not out of long-term planning but through a successful audition.
  • "When it happened, I'm like, whoa, this is sick." — Trevor [22:12]
• He shares behind-the-scenes medical training stories—learning to suture bananas and the humbling challenge of faking expertise on set. [23:14]
• The group jokes about actors’ ability to “act” in real life, impact on relationships, and the line between authenticity and performance.
  • “You literally lie for a living. Like, how can I believe anything you say?” — Trevor (on dating, reflecting women’s suspicions) [24:34]

7. Superfly, Missed Roles, and Brand Alignment

• Discussed the Superfly remake, not getting a sequel, and why Trevor sometimes passes on potentially iconic roles to avoid being “boxed in” (like being "the Superfly guy" or playing Michael Jackson). [14:35-15:17]
• No regrets on roles missed: “There’s none that I… yeah, it’s the opposite… a lot of ones that I wish I’d gotten, and I’m glad I didn’t get it.” — Trevor [15:31]
• Expresses caution about protecting his brand and long-term vision.

8. Collaboration & Role Models

• Trevor names frequent collaborators (his brother Ian, producers, Eric Bellinger, Mike J) and aspirations to work with Drake, Wayne, Rascal Flatts, and writes about his process:
  • "I wrote probably 90% of the album." [33:31]
  • “Sean Stockman from Boyz II Men… That was another shoutout. Bro, you’re doing everything… keeping it alive.” — Trevor [34:48]

9. Reflections on R&B, Creativity & Vulnerability

• The state of R&B—considered “niche” now—mirrors society’s skepticism about effort and authenticity.
  • “Today’s society, effort is frowned upon, which I hate… it’s not cool to try.” — Trevor [43:44]
  • Encourages listeners to invest fully in things they love despite peer pressure or trends.

10. On AI/Technology's Impact on the Arts

• The hosts and Trevor reflect thoughtfully (and with concern) on AI's potential to infiltrate even pure art forms like Broadway.
  • “You’re not even gonna know… They’re gonna look like us.” — Trevor [48:23]
  • “AI signed to a $3 million deal... that's laundering!” — Mal [49:34]
• Despite this, Trevor finds motivation to go even harder as an artist: “I don’t feel like a robot could write a breakup song that would feel like these…” [51:01]

11. Lighthearted & Personal Moments

• Trevor shares he struggles to "sit still"—joking about possible anxiety (“I found, as I got older, it could be anxiety… I was always singing, and… it calms it.” — Trevor [46:46]).
• The group jokes about life as multi-talented Black men, therapy, dating as an actor, and Trevor’s real-life experiences meeting Lil Wayne. [46:23]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On writing the album:
  “I wrote it so close to my breakup in such an honest way.” — Trevor Jackson [03:54]
• On accepting pain:
  “I would go through the pain again a million times.” — Trevor Jackson [05:15]
• About his Broadway call:
  “I’m running up, grabbing, jumping on her… I felt like we did it.” — Trevor Jackson [07:46]
• On authenticity in his art:
  “I don’t create for anybody’s approval.” — Trevor Jackson [06:29]
• On acting vs. music:
  “If I’m writing my music, it’s so personal and it’s so real. And it saved me.” — Trevor Jackson [10:28]
• On versatility:
  “Why in any other field... is that different? I can sing just as good as I can act.” — Trevor Jackson [18:32]
• On therapy for Black men:
  “It’s cleansing the mind. It’s... just like taking a shower.” — Trevor [21:43]
• On R&B today:
  “Effort is frowned upon… it’s not cool to try… but it’s okay to put everything you have into things you love.” — Trevor Jackson [43:44]
• On AI in the arts:
  “I don’t feel like a robot could write a breakup song that would feel like these…” — Trevor [51:01]

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Timeline / Key Segments

• [02:22] – Trevor Jackson introduction, new music, I Love You EP details
• [03:54] – Writing through heartbreak, inspiration for the album
• [06:19] – Childhood in showbiz, family support, authenticity
• [07:46] – Booking Lion King as Young Simba, family reactions
• [10:28] – Why music is therapeutic, making the album after injury and heartbreak
• [13:11] – Industry pressure, finding his own creative voice, collaborators
• [14:35] – Discussion of the Superfly remake; career decisions & typecasting
• [18:32] – Embracing multi-disciplinary art, societal pressure to "pick one"
• [21:24] – Therapy, especially for Black men, and overcoming stigma
• [22:12] – Scoring Grey’s Anatomy role, prepping for TV medicine
• [24:34] – On dating as an actor and trust issues
• [33:31] – Creative process, collaborators, and narrative arc for the albums
• [43:44] – On effort, R&B, group conformity, vulnerability in today’s music scene
• [48:16] – Deep-dive: can AI ever replace pure live art forms like Broadway?
• [51:01] – Why AI can't write “real” songs; renewed motivation

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Episode Takeaway

Trevor Jackson’s conversation is a compelling look at the realities of being a multi-faceted Black entertainer in today’s world: the joys and pain of creative honesty, maturing in the industry, the hand-in-hand nature of therapy and artistry, and the challenge of innovating while preserving soulfulness in an increasingly AI-dominated world. The chemistry among Trevor, Rory, and Mal brings humor, vulnerability, and practical insight to listeners—whether you're a fan of Trevor’s multifaceted talents, navigating your own creative path, or just seeking inspiration.

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Release Reminder:
Trevor Jackson's EP I Love You drops Oct 3, with the album I Love You, Goodbye to follow in November.

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Transcript

[Trevor Jackson]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[AJ Jacobs]

What makes work beautiful. It's when the people you hire become the people you admire. When one journey ends and a new one begins. When leaders want to be learners. LHH is your single talent partner for every step, helping you build strong teams, inspire leaders, and guide careers with empathy, clarity, and care. See [e-mail] beautiful recruitment, development, career transition. LHH a beautiful working world.

[Matt Jones]

Hey, this is Matt Jones and I'm Drew Franklin, and this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different.

[Rory]

Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.

[Matt Jones]

What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're gon. NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Dan]

I'm Dan. He's Ty.

[Trevor Jackson]

Hello.

[Dan]

And we're the solid verbal college football podcast.

[Ty]

Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan.

[Dan]

Join us all season long as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport.

[Ty]

Listen to the solid verbal college football podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dan]

We don't just love college football, Ty. We live it.

[AJ Jacobs]

Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings appearance on the puzzler with A.J. jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy truthers believe in?

[Trevor Jackson]

I guess they would be conspiracy theorists.

[AJ Jacobs]

That's right.

[Trevor Jackson]

They give you the answers and you still blew it.

[AJ Jacobs]

The Puzzler. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Trevor Jackson]

The volume, no worry. And now.

[Rory]

All right, Rory, we are back. Today we have a special guest.

[Mal]

Yes, sir.

[Rory]

Now, Rory, this guest here, he's a very unique guest. He's like, you know, he's a child prodigy, child star, singer, dancer, songwriter, actor, probably models on the weekends, but he's a guy that I'm a fan of. I've been watching him for a long time, and he's here with us today, and he's in one of your favorite shows. This upcoming season. He will be on Grey's Anatomy, of course. Today we are joined by the talented Trevor Jackson.

[Trevor Jackson]

Thank you, man. Thank you so much, bro.

[Rory]

What's up, man? How you feeling?

[Trevor Jackson]

I feel great after that introduction. No, no, I Sometimes you forget who you are, and then someone says somebody.

[Rory]

Has to give you your flowers and let you know. No, but you're somebody that just in watching film and obviously Broadway, been seeing you throughout the years, watched you grow up. But to see what you're doing now and see the things that you're doing in your career and still at it, it's good to see black men.

[Trevor Jackson]

Thank you. Yeah.

[Rory]

Always doing good things and always sticking to what they want to do. So it's a pleasure to meet you, man.

[Trevor Jackson]

Thank you, man. Nice to meet you guys too, man.

[Rory]

Fan of the show, new music out.

[Trevor Jackson]

New music out.

[Rory]

We was talking about it tomorrow.

[Trevor Jackson]

Tomorrow. It's called I love you. It's an ep. It's the first of a series that leads up to the album. The album is. Am I allowed to say the album title?

[Rory]

Why not?

[Trevor Jackson]

The album is I love you, Goodbye. The greatest breakup album of all time.

[Rory]

The greatest breakup album of all time. Hold on.

[Mal]

Let's backtrack. How do we get to the greatest breakup album of all time? Some type of inspiration come from. Unless you had the greatest breakup of all time.

[Trevor Jackson]

No, that's what I'm saying for to me, it's the greatest breakup album of all time. So I called it that.

[Rory]

Why is that?

[Trevor Jackson]

I wrote it so close to my breakup in such an honest way.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah, it's.

[Rory]

Did she hear it yet?

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Rory]

What did she say? Like, what's her feedback? There's not really any say change that.

[Trevor Jackson]

Like, she probably heard some of it. You know what I'm saying?

[Mal]

But he went from, she heard it, so she heard some.

[Rory]

Change.

[Trevor Jackson]

So, look, we weren't even talking, right. But before my surgery, I was scared, and I was like, what if I just. You know, I get nervous about doctors, and I was like, what if something happened? So I sent it before my surgery. I was like, hey. And then she was like, you know, it's gonna be okay, basically being like, you know, that's it. Whatever.

[Rory]

Yeah, okay.

[Trevor Jackson]

But. But I love you goodbye was the last thing she said to me on the phone.

[Mal]

And that's why goodbye is like, right before you're about to have surgery.

[Trevor Jackson]

No, no. This was like a quick text, but on the phone when we. Last time we spoke, ever. Ever spoke, she was like, I love you goodbye. And I was like, this hurts me, but also incredible.

[Rory]

How do you just hang the phone up on I love you goodbye to somebody that you was with? Like. And is it, like, is that the closure?

[Trevor Jackson]

Like, that was it. That was it. And that's it made sense to me. It's like, yeah, we. We love each other, but at. This ain't right. Yeah. Goodbye.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mal]

Do you.

[Rory]

That's healthy.

[Mal]

Do you take accountability on this greatest, greatest breakup of all time?

[Trevor Jackson]

What do you mean, take accountability?

[Mal]

The sentence.

[Trevor Jackson]

In what way?

[Mal]

In what way do you take accountability on the eps and leading up to the project of your role in the relationship?

[Trevor Jackson]

Uh, yeah, 100%. And again, nobody did one thing or the other. It's just. It just wasn't right. And I'm the type of guy, I feel like I would have held on forever. You know what I'm saying? And I was, you know, I'm like, this is it. This is my. So I'm glad that it happened because where I am now, I would go through the pain again a million times. I tore my Achilles also. Two weeks after we broke up, I tore my Achilles. So I was really right. That's what everybody was saying.

[Mal]

Or sometimes you purposely have to hurt yourselves to see if she'll visit you in the hospital. Yeah, no, I know. What time. I didn't tell you. The cord just went like me.

[Rory]

It's not as traumatic as what Lamar did in the Bunny ranch.

[Trevor Jackson]

Like, he was.

[Rory]

Killed himself and came back to life.

[Mal]

Like, we're not gonna do that. It worked, though.

[Rory]

It worked.

[Mal]

Lamar Odom got his girl back.

[Rory]

Absolutely. So, Trevor, talk to us about what is it like growing up in front of the camera, man, like, you. You play young Simba in the Lion King, which is a. I mean, you. You got that on your resume. Everybody's ears are perking up at that point. Yeah, but what is it like to come up in this industry as a child, grow up, become a man, go through everything in front of the camera? Like, what's that experience?

[Trevor Jackson]

Like, life is hard enough as it is, so you add that, it's definitely going to be a little harder. But I'm thankful to have the family that I have and the support system that I had that I never. I was never too concerned about people's opinion of me.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Trevor Jackson]

Right. And I feel like a lot of people in my position are always on the phone. What are they saying? Are they talking about me? Or they're being mean?

[Rory]

Like, you don't care about social media.

[Trevor Jackson]

No. Like, the only reason that's why I started doing the TMIX is because I hated social media so much. And everybody that I met were like, you got to be. Have a social media presence. I was like, the only thing I feel comfortable doing. People seeing me do is music, you know, So I started doing the T mixes, and that's kind of how that came about. But, yeah, I'm thankful that I'm. I'm so loved and I'm so supported by my family and my team that, you know, I don't create for anybody's approval. You know what I'm saying? Go ahead.

[Mal]

But what was Broadway like as a kid?

[Trevor Jackson]

It was amazing.

[Mal]

Just being in that environment as a child.

[Rory]

Had to be overwhelmed. Was that your first ever Broadway or stage theater?

[Trevor Jackson]

No. So the first thing I did was this thing called the Beef and Boys Christmas show. When I was 11 years. When I was 7 years old, that was in Indiana. It was like a local thing, but it was equity. Like, it was a professional job right on stage. And then while I was doing that, everybody was like, you should do Lion King. You should do Lion King. I auditioned. It was open audition, 5,000 kids. It was like a giant 5,000. And I remember being there, you know, we're waiting. Whatever. I auditioned, didn't think I was going to get it. They called me, and I was one of the youngest that they've ever hired. You know, they wait till they're like nine or ten, but I was.

[Rory]

I was like eight.

[Trevor Jackson]

Like, just turned eight.

[Rory]

But what's that? What's. What's that? Like, you getting that call that you were.

[Trevor Jackson]

I'm screaming. There's a video of it at 8 years old.

[Rory]

Like, that has to be like, it's nuts.

[Trevor Jackson]

So I didn't get that call, right? So my mom knew, and she had a dinner at my grandmother's house. God rest. My grandmother's house. She just passed away. But we were all there just sitting. And then she's like, so, Trev, just want to say we're going to have to leave soon because you're going to be like, it, you know, I'm such a mom.

[Rory]

Wait, I just can't wait to meet your mom.

[Trevor Jackson]

What? I'm running up, grabbing, jumping on her. Like, yeah, man. And I felt like we did it, you know, because she. Right before that, we had gotten to a car accident, like, really bad. I was, like, paralyzed for a few days. My spine was bruised, so I couldn't move. And this was maybe like a week or two before. My mom was like. Cause we were debating. She was like, I don't know if he really wants it. Is he just a kid saying this? Like. But after the accident, after I was good. She's like, no, we're going. Yeah, we're gonna go.

[Rory]

That's dope and how did she and.

[Mal]

Your family balance that entire thing of you?

[Trevor Jackson]

It wasn't easy. My dad was like, you're taking my son away. You know, my dad's family, you know, it's like, you're just stealing our. You know, and she's like, this is what he wants. You know, and she. My mom always did good of asking me, Always. You still having fun? You still want to do this? Like, if you don't want to, we can go home. I'm like, what? It's the best time I've ever had. Like, picture getting to go to a park or a playground, but in every city.

[Mal]

Yeah, right.

[Trevor Jackson]

Every city I get to go to, I'm going to state parks, learning about new ways of, you know, how people live in different cities. It was dope. It was a training also for my hard work, my work ethic, you know, we had eight shows a week, but because we were young, we could only do four and four. But if the other kid is sick, I have to do all eight shows, you know, so. And if I didn't get to perform, I'm mad. Like, if he's performing, I'm like, I want to be on stage. You know what I'm saying?

[Rory]

So that's something you always wanted.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Rory]

How did you. How did you fall into music? Was music a big part of your family?

[Trevor Jackson]

My family, movies and music, you know, they always just are watching movies. Always well rounded with the. The type of music that they were listening to. Go from Elton John to Brian McKnight to, you know, I mean, it was just very Brian McKnight.

[Rory]

You're a little too young to know about Brian.

[Trevor Jackson]

I love Brian McKnight. I can't wait for you to hear the album.

[Rory]

You know, I definitely want to hear the album. The record, the One Foot in record is. Is dope.

[Trevor Jackson]

Thank you.

[Rory]

But we had to talk off camera about it being R B. R B. But the album is R. That is a pop, right?

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Love it though, by the way. My goal is to not be R B. My goal is to be the biggest music artist of all time and be global.

[Rory]

You don't want to be boxing it.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah. And I want to make music that. I've been saying this word a lot. I don't want to sound like mlk, but freedom is. Is what I'm trying to promote. With everything that I do in life, the way I do it, the type of music I make, the shows I pick, like, my life doesn't make sense for most people. Right. Like how are you on tv? And then you do this. Then you write a country song. Then you go over here and you do, you know. But I'm just taking whatever's coming from wherever it's coming from. You know what I'm saying? And then I'm just releasing it. And it feels good. And it feels good to be free.

[Rory]

What do you love more, though? Do you love the acting or.

[Trevor Jackson]

I love music more only because it's closer to my chest. Right. When I'm acting, I'm acting as someone else. I'm acting as another. Someone else wrote the word. Someone else is telling me how to, you know, directing me. But if I'm writing my music, it's. Oh, man, it's so personal and it's so real. And it saved me. Like, I make music when I feel like I'm going to explode. Okay, Right. So with the breakup stuff, right when we broke up, I wrote the album in like two and a half weeks. You know, I'm saying, like, it was very fast. It was the quickest album I've ever made. Made it, you know, And I just kept vomiting. I'm crying, recording, put my leg up, letting the blood run right down. Then I'm recording, I'm going to put my legs.

[Rory]

Achilles broken, bad.

[Trevor Jackson]

And then I already have back pain. So for my Achilles, because of the cr. All these things, like, I was just. It was bad.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

And that saved me, me being able to make that music and be like, this shit is all, you know, you bounce your head back to some you made.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

You're like, that's life, though. It doesn't even just have to be music. Like, you'll bounce your head to moments that you did later in life that you're like, man, I really thought that was going to end me, but it made me, you know, this is beautiful.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

So that's kind of what I want to.

[Mal]

How did you navigate from the Broadway side to the music side when it comes to production? Was a lot of resources come from people you met in the Broadway world?

[Trevor Jackson]

No, no. So the Broadway was actually kind of really separate from my music stuff. Right. So I did Broadway for three years. I toured on two years on the east coast, one year on the West Coast. And then everybody was like, yo, this kid. Like, you guys got to make sure you either move to New York or la. New York or la. And I love the beach. I'm surfer. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, okay, we'll go to LA. And I moved to LA when I was 11. I'm auditioning, trying to, you know, make stuff happen. And I got signed to Atlantic Records when I was 15. That was kind of, hey, do this, wear this, be this guy, right? Yeah. So I didn't even find my sound or, like, producers or the way I wanted to make music until me and my brother one day were like, we're doing the next drone. We're gonna make all the songs. You know what I'm saying? And that was in my feelings. That was our first time writing. And it was funny. The looks on our faces when we made a song. We're like, oh, you don't have to get someone to write it. You don't have to get someone to make the beat. Also, you don't need a vocal. I remember, bro paying five grand out of my budget for a vocal producer. And to be honest, most vocal producers can't sing. Almost all of them. Do you know how it is to fucking sit there and he's trying.

[Mal]

I sing better than you.

[Trevor Jackson]

That's not how I'm supposed to sound. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not how it's supposed to sound. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mal]

So what was the sound at this time when you were with Atlantic? Like, what was happening in the industry as far as what was the norm?

[Trevor Jackson]

It was just if I guess at that time, I guess Trey Songish got you okay. You know, I mean, that kind of vibe, which. I love Trey songs. I think Trey Songz is great, but it just felt very, like, niche, you know, I just didn't. If. I don't even know if I said that word right, but you get what I mean.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mal]

A lot of that over singing doesn't work for everybody else. It works for Trey. It doesn't work for everyone else.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah. And no, and me, too. That actually, that was a big issue, was like, I just sounded like other people. You know, I sound like Chris, or I sounded like this. And, you know, I had to find my voice, but I would do it. I wouldn't change anything, man. Like I said, that's how I feel about life. Like, where I am now. My sound is there. And we were actually. We had an interview earlier today, and they were talking about this Ebolis commercial that I did for Skin Eczema. And you can barely hear my voice in the back, but people are calling me, hey, is this you? Or even on Twitter, I'm like, y' all can tell my voice? Like, yeah. So I felt like in that moment, I was like, yeah, my sound. Like, it's me.

[Rory]

People recognize yeah, yeah, yeah, but you do. Your eczema is different, though. You're a white guy.

[Mal]

Like, it's worse, man.

[Rory]

You can see it. You're just.

[Mal]

No, it's red.

[Trevor Jackson]

We'll get you some.

[Mal]

Use.

[Rory]

So you had. You had a. The Superfly movie.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Now, when that we had first heard that the Superfly was coming out, I was like, I hope they don't this up. Yeah, it's, you know, old black. Black exploitation.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I guess that's what they. They call it film. Classic film. Superfly.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Rory]

But the. The version that you did, I actually liked the movie. Like, I thought it was cool.

[Trevor Jackson]

I appreciate it.

[Rory]

Why didn't we get another, like a part two or like, maybe like a tv? Because I felt like the movie was dope, but I felt like the story wasn't full.

[Trevor Jackson]

Right.

[Rory]

It wasn't done. It was like. It was so many other ways. Yeah. Like, that was never a conversation at all.

[Trevor Jackson]

There's a lot of people who want to do it, too, and, you know, but some of the producers and things, it just didn't, you know, work out. And for me, I was cool with the one and done because. Yeah, that was a moment, you know what I'm saying? I captured that moment. I captured that character, and then I really said, now I'm on to the next thing, you know, and that's just kind of how I felt about it. And also when you play something that's so iconic, you become that guy, the Superfly guy. Yeah. You know, I mean, that's true. You get boxed, which, you know, there's Michael Jackson movies about to come out. And, you know, I could have auditioned for that and went for that, and I'm like, if I kill it, it's bad, and if I don't do a good job, it's bad.

[Rory]

Right.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

Right. Because now you're Michael Jackson.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

And so I kind of try to be careful with that.

[Rory]

Are there any. Are there any films, tv, any roles that you passed on that you look back and be like, damn, like, I should have took that one?

[Trevor Jackson]

No, no, there's. There's none that I. Yeah, like. Yeah, it's the opposite, though. There's a lot of ones that I wish I had gotten and I'm glad I didn't get it. That happens a lot.

[Mal]

Which ones you audition for.

[Rory]

Say it.

[Trevor Jackson]

Nice. How to get me.

[Rory]

What you mean?

[Trevor Jackson]

I'm a professional. I'm a professional.

[Mal]

No, we're not going to.

[Rory]

Yeah, we're not trying to start that show at me. Just.

[Trevor Jackson]

But there's some just projects. I'm like, okay, that wouldn't have made sense.

[Rory]

Right, okay, yeah, I get it.

[Trevor Jackson]

I like that.

[Rory]

The fact just wouldn't have made sense.

[Trevor Jackson]

It wouldn't make sense.

[Rory]

It doesn't align with your brand.

[Trevor Jackson]

And God is good in that way, though, right? It's like we feel like we need.

[Rory]

Whenever they do that, whenever they bring.

[Mal]

God, whenever they say good, it's like.

[Rory]

All right, you see? You see what the team does? See, this is the shit that y' all do to Trevor. And now he's sitting here, he don't know he can kick it with us. He's like, you know, God is so good.

[Mal]

We're not trying to get him to diss. Iss Issa Rae. We know the amount of roles that he should have gotten, but sometimes God is great all the time. God is so all the time.

[Rory]

And he's always on time. Hey, neighbor. Hug your neighbor.

[Trevor Jackson]

Love thyself.

[Mal]

What do you think has brought more insecurity, though, with the business, tv, movies or music?

[Trevor Jackson]

Music. I felt. I think it's a combination of them. Right. I felt because I did TV and music, people weren't really understanding the level of quality in my voice or performances or whatever. Feel like I'm one of the best, you know what I'm saying? And that's only because I studied the best and I take it very, very seriously. I'm not here to make a lot of money. I'm not here to get some chicks. I'm here to be one of the greatest that ever lived. And so I felt like, because people had seen me on TV when I was doing music, they weren't even really listening. They weren't even really seeing it. And now they're like, oh, my God. HE sings. I'm like, I probably sang better when I was 15, you know?

[Rory]

Right.

[Trevor Jackson]

I was really going hard. But it all, again, God is good.

[Mal]

I mean, even just to have, like, a human moment based off what? The amount of things we work on outside of this podcast, too, that we think may compromise our perception here.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Mal]

Getting Gray's Anatomy is amazing. That's incredible TV history. But also trying to put music out at the same time. Is that in the back of your mind of, like, yes, always? Could this ruin one side of it? No matter how good both are not.

[Trevor Jackson]

Where I am now. But I think at some point I was worried about that. Like, if I was doing grownish, I probably wanted to. Like, a lot of times a team would be like, hey, let's promote the grownish and the music at the same time, which I didn't mind it, but I wanted it to be, I'm here because I'm my music.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

Or I'm here because I'm an actor.

[Rory]

Like, I don't want to see things.

[Mal]

They don't have to be.

[Trevor Jackson]

Take both very seriously. It's not because I can do it. It's because I need to. I have to do these things right. So that's kind of. But now I'm at a place where I've embraced everything that I am. I'm not ashamed of being multifaceted. It always made me laugh. Speaking of the basketball, like, my brother's also a Hooper, but, like, the person on the court. The person on the court that can pass, that can shoot, that can dunk, that can steal. That's a good defensive player. That's the best player on the court.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

So why in any other field? Why is that different? I can sing just as good as I can act. I can produce, I can write. You know what I mean?

[Rory]

There's a such thing as. And it's fucked up, but there's a such thing as being too talented, for sure. You know what I mean? Like, there's sometimes people looking, they'd be like, is this a gimmick? Like, this kid can't act as good and sing as good, dance this good. And you know what I'm saying? So it's like, sometimes people are kind of like, pick one. What do you do? What is it that you do? But in your case, you're like, I'm passionate about.

[Trevor Jackson]

I'm a capture of moments. And I'm also honestly surviving with the things that I do. They're part of my therapy. They are part of me being able to get up in the morning and go to bed. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes I can't sleep. I gotta make a song first, and I can sleep.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

You know what I'm saying? Like, it's just a part.

[Rory]

What was the toughest, the toughest pill for you to swallow? Maturing and becoming a man in the industry, like, what was the one thing.

[Trevor Jackson]

That you was, like, not taking? I took some stuff for granted. Opportunities. You know, I think when I was younger, and I'm not ashamed of myself. I'm not bashing old me or anything, but I feel like there was a time where I wasn't as grateful as I should have been in the positions that I was at, because I was worried about just life stuff and not being like, yo, it's a Privilege to be able to be on set. It's a privilege to be able to get on stage. I get to do those things. I don't have to do those. Right. So I think maybe that I probably was, like, most disappointed in that, but. Yeah.

[Rory]

Okay, that makes sense. I mean, if you growing up in the industry as a kid, I would think that a lot of that is attributed to you being young, though.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Like, you don't know. To not take certain things for granted.

[Trevor Jackson]

Exactly.

[Rory]

It's like, I'm 15, 16. You know, I don't have that in my brain yet. Of, like, this is like, you know, some people do. Some people get that. They learn that Jewel. They pick up that Jewel early.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Rory]

But for others, it takes coming 25, 26, 27 to look back and be like, yo, I should have definitely, man.

[Trevor Jackson]

27. That year for me was the. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Rory]

Why is that?

[Trevor Jackson]

That's when the breakup happened.

[Mal]

Oh, so she put it in perspective.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah, no, God did. No, I'm joking.

[Rory]

God came back so good.

[Mal]

We are not giving her that credit, but I hear what you're saying, but also, I may disagree with your therapist in that regard. Like. Like, if you've been hitting nothing but nets since you was 8 years old, it's not that you are taking things for granted. You're just living in the reality that. That you're in.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mal]

You want to keep going and keep.

[Rory]

All right.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Mal]

I did LION KING At 8 years old. That doesn't mean I now need to settle and.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Mal]

Oh, let me go back to that moment and try to really empathize. What happened? No, it's time to keep moving forward. Doesn't mean I'm taking that for granted. I'm moving on what I'm doing.

[Trevor Jackson]

Right. Right.

[Mal]

So I think you should get your money back from your therapist.

[Rory]

That's basically what you're saying. Get your money back.

[Trevor Jackson]

Get your money back. Like, all right, though the right therapist is Good.

[Rory]

Oh, absolutely. 100. And especially as black men, I think.

[Trevor Jackson]

Oh, man.

[Rory]

So we need therapy. Like, I learned that later in life. Like, you know what? We. We all need that.

[Trevor Jackson]

Because you. You know, when you say it out loud, you're like, whoa. Right.

[Rory]

Because it's a. It's a. It's almost like you. You're saying something's wrong with me.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I think that's the tone that comes with.

[Trevor Jackson]

But it's not that.

[Rory]

It's not that.

[Trevor Jackson]

I mean, then why take a shower?

[Rory]

Right.

[Trevor Jackson]

Something's wrong with you. So you're not gonna get in the shower to get clean. Don't make no sense.

[Rory]

Right?

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah, it's. It's cleansing the mind. It's. It's.

[Mal]

Explain that to my Irish Catholic parents.

[Trevor Jackson]

Parents.

[Mal]

It's just like taking a shower. Yeah.

[Rory]

So you got the. The role in Grey's Anatomy. First of all, congrats on that, because that is.

[Trevor Jackson]

That is Black Doctor on tv.

[Rory]

Listen, that is amazing. Amazing.

[Trevor Jackson]

Very, very cool.

[Rory]

Was this something that was kind of on your vision board or something that just came about, came about randomly, and.

[Trevor Jackson]

Then when it happened, I'm like, whoa, this is sick.

[Rory]

Grey's Anatomy is. That's a big deal.

[Trevor Jackson]

It's sick, bro. And so sorry. I'm so unprofessional.

[Rory]

Is that God?

[Trevor Jackson]

That's.

[Mal]

God, that's the greatest breakup of all time right there.

[Trevor Jackson]

So sorry. What was I saying in my brain? Yeah, it was an audition. I was kind of. It was amongst a few that I had, like, maybe had that week, like, two, two, three. And I was like, okay, let me just put these on tape. Didn't think anything was going to happen. Few weeks passed. They called me. But being able to go to work, you've. I've worked on a bunch of sets, but now I get to go, and everything is new. You know what I'm saying? Lab coats, surgeons. Sometimes they got these dummy fake bodies, and I'm like, oh, shooting. It's a real person. Like, yeah, it's dope. It's fun.

[Mal]

What. What was. I guess, outside of the audition, once you got the role, the training for that. Like, we. We've talked with Nick Cannon about when he had to do Drumline. He actually had to go, yeah, do the whole thing. We've talked to people that have done army roles. Like, they went to boot camp for real. Like, did you have to. Did you have to play the operator game? Like, at least the operator game, at minimum.

[Trevor Jackson]

What they did have us do, though, we did some training with some bananas and, like, sew. How did you do really stitching? I did a horrible.

[Mal]

And everyone's gonna die.

[Trevor Jackson]

She's bleeding. Call it time. She died at this time. Seriously, dude, it's. It's not easy, and it's crazy. So that, you know, they got the pros in there. And there's nothing worse than somebody being really good at something, trying to explain it to you. Like, it's okay while they're doing it.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

He's like, dude, so you just want to keep. He's literally using one finger to stitch, right? That's how Cody is. He's. And it's taken me like, 20, 30 minutes.

[Rory]

Bananas.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

They're like, we'll come back. We'll come back. Like, okay, yeah, actors.

[Mal]

We'll shoot a wide. It won't be a close up.

[Rory]

Now, is that because I have this theory about actors. I think actors are some of the craziest people.

[Trevor Jackson]

You have to be a little bit. Bro.

[Mal]

You have to be a sociopath to some degree.

[Rory]

Is there ever going to be a time where, you know, you meet a girl, say she has no idea who you are?

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And because now you're on Grey's Anatomy and now you know how to talk like a doctor. Is there ever going to be a time where you act like you're a doctor in real life and have this conversation like, yeah. So last week you lost this patient on the table, and he was just.

[Trevor Jackson]

Like, I'm sure in a few months I could do that. That.

[Rory]

That is sick that y' all have the ability to really, like, flip that on in real life, man.

[Trevor Jackson]

It's not difficult, bro. Cuz, you know, I'm from the UK and that. You know what I mean? Like, it's easy.

[Rory]

See, I've done that. That's why she left. That's why she.

[Trevor Jackson]

I've gotten that, too. Oh, my God. You literally lie for a living. Like, how can I believe anything you say?

[Rory]

So. So women have hit you with that before.

[Trevor Jackson]

Oh, so many times.

[Rory]

How is that? Cuz they don't know when you're being real sincere.

[Trevor Jackson]

It hurts, bro.

[Rory]

That is crazy.

[Mal]

Okay, but have you used it?

[Rory]

And that laugh.

[Mal]

I didn't even like. And then you folded your leg. Yeah, Yeah, I didn't like.

[Trevor Jackson]

No.

[Mal]

I can pick up on cues now.

[Rory]

I'm a fan of her.

[Mal]

I'm glad, you know, I'm on her side. I see why she said, I love you. Goodbye. I totally understand.

[Rory]

She was being manipulated.

[Mal]

She's like, he started in the middle of the argument. Y' all see me. Give me a little bit of head.

[Trevor Jackson]

He said, listen, do you mind taking your own pens off a bit?

[Rory]

But that is dope to have that ability as an actor.

[Mal]

Like, for your regular life.

[Trevor Jackson]

Life.

[Mal]

Because at some point, if you're doing that every day.

[Rory]

No, if you. If not.

[Trevor Jackson]

Not to mention, abuse your power.

[Rory]

Right.

[Trevor Jackson]

With great power comes great responsibility.

[Rory]

Right?

[Mal]

Because I felt in. On a way smaller scale, when I've had arguments with. With past partners, they've said to me in argument, stop podcasting. And I'm like, I'm not podcasting.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mal]

And then I started hearing myself. I'm like, wait, I'm podcasting right now.

[Rory]

No, no, no.

[Trevor Jackson]

Here's what I will say.

[Mal]

Sometimes you can't turn this up in.

[Rory]

The middle of argument.

[Mal]

Better. You need better help. 20 off new Rory and Mall. You need therapy. It becomes a tick. Like, it becomes. What's the Jim Carrey?

[Trevor Jackson]

Which one? So many.

[Rory]

The movie, the mask.

[Trevor Jackson]

Liar. Liar.

[Mal]

No. When he's in a reality show, sometimes it becomes a Truman Show. Like in the middle. All of a sudden, you selling products and the whole. Sometimes you just get caught in the world. Like the lines blur.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah. In that regard, I would say this someone that loves you, your partner, when they're hurt, they're gonna hurt you by the thing that almost as much as them. Which is. Which is your job, Right. Podcasting. So it doesn't matter what you do. I'm sure if you were a chef, she'd be like, what you do? What is this? You're in the chef room. They use anything that.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

Trying to stab and twist.

[Mal]

I'm not one of your sous chefs.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah, right, right. Exactly. You can't just yell at me because I'm not a piece of meat.

[Mal]

You want me to say, yes, chef? Is that what you want me to say?

[Trevor Jackson]

That's what they were saying.

[Rory]

Girl said, I'm not your sous chef.

[Trevor Jackson]

Not your sous chef. You can't just talk to my guy.

[Rory]

Okay, so how do you go from preparing for Grey's Anatomy.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Rory]

To then.

[Trevor Jackson]

Sorry, I am sweating like a big girl.

[Rory]

Are you?

[Mal]

Yes.

[Rory]

Is the AC on over there?

[Mal]

Josh, turn that on.

[Rory]

Is it on?

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Mal]

And do you think you would have changed your Achilles injury post Grey's Anatomy training? Would you have told the doctor after the Achilles injury of the surgery? Like, I don't think it should stitch that way.

[Rory]

You're doing this all wrong.

[Mal]

My guy on set can do this with one hand.

[Trevor Jackson]

So what are you doing? Right. No worry.

[Mal]

You've been telling me non stop that you're thinking about upgrading to the all new iPhone 17 Pro because it is designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever. You will not shut up about it.

[Rory]

The zoom feature is incredible.

[Mal]

Insane. But are you also thinking about the traffic on your way to the store or transferring all your data?

[Rory]

No, I'm not thinking about that.

[Mal]

Well, if you were, good news. When you order a new phone online with Boost Mobile, they'll send an expert to your home or work or to deliver your brand new iPhone 17 Pro and get you set up on the Boost Mobile within minutes. No hassle whatsoever.

[Rory]

Visit boost mobile.com to get started. Delivery available for selected devices [e-mail] terms apply.

[Mal]

Today's show is brought to you by our new presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet. It's simple, it's clean, it's packed with new promos every day. Starting with your first bet. New customers can place a $5 bet, and if it hits, you get not only your winnings, but also $150 in extra bonus bets.

[Rory]

I like that.

[Mal]

This coming Monday, it's Jets in Miami. They're both 0 and 3, so have a blast betting on that one.

[Rory]

Somebody's O's gotta go.

[Mal]

Somebody, somebody. Somebody's gonna. It's gonna have to win. So clearly someone's gonna win. So bet with Hard Rock Bed. Download the app right now. Make your first deposit today.

[Rory]

Payable and bonus bets. Not a cash offer. Offered by the Seminole Tribe of Florida in Florida. Offered by Seminole Hard Rock Digital, LLC in all other states. Must be 21 plus and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee or Virginia to play. Terms and conditions apply. Concerned about gambling in Florida? Call 188 admitted in Indiana. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-9 with it gambling problem. Call 1-800- Gambler Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee and Virginia. Hey, this is Matt Jones and I'm.

[Matt Jones]

Drew Franklin, and this is NFL Cover Zero. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining, and twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different.

[Rory]

Did you see the Colts pretzel?

[Trevor Jackson]

That was my other big takeaway from that game.

[Matt Jones]

What was that?

[Trevor Jackson]

Looks like something that should not be sold.

[Matt Jones]

Oh, my.

[Rory]

So that was my other big Colts takeaway.

[Matt Jones]

They sold that.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yes.

[Matt Jones]

I might want to go back at the Colt Stadium.

[Rory]

Yeah. Might want to go back to the.

[Trevor Jackson]

Drawing board on that. Yeah.

[Rory]

I thought the shape we have with pretzels was working pretty well.

[Mal]

It's worked for generations.

[Matt Jones]

We're just here trying to enjoy it. We hope you all will join us throughout the year. And let's go.

[Rory]

I hope I'm as youthful as Pete.

[Trevor Jackson]

Carroll is at his age. He's a young 73.

[Matt Jones]

He is a young 73. He is spry.

[Rory]

I wouldn't fight him.

[Matt Jones]

I would Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the iHeartRadio Alex app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Dan]

I'm Dan. He's Ty.

[Trevor Jackson]

Hello.

[Dan]

And we're the Solid Verbal College Football Podcast.

[Ty]

College football season is here and you know what that means.

[Dan]

Your team is going to break your heart three times probably before Halloween.

[Mal]

Uh huh.

[Ty]

But fear not, the Solid Verbal will be right there with you through every soul crushing loss and impossible comeback.

[Dan]

Join us all season long, all year long, as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport.

[Ty]

Whether you're a die hard fan or a casual observer, we'll help you make sense of all the chaos and of course, celebrate the madness. Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football player.

[Dan]

We don't just love college football, Ty. We live it.

[Ty]

Listen to the Solid Verbal College Football podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[AJ Jacobs]

Hello puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings appearance on the puzzler with A.J. jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy. Truthers who say that you were given all the answers believe in.

[Trevor Jackson]

I guess they would be conspiracy theorists.

[AJ Jacobs]

That's right. Are there Jeopardy. Truthers? Are there people who say that it it was rigged?

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah. Ever since I was first on, people are like, they gave you the answers, right? And then there's the other ones which are like, they gave you the answers and you still blew it.

[AJ Jacobs]

Don't miss Jeopardy. Legend Ken Jennings on our special game show Week of the Puzzler podcast. The Puzzler is the best place to get your daily word puzzle fix. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rory]

So you have the episode, the EP I love you.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah. October 3rd, coming out October 3rd, tomorrow.

[Rory]

Yes. How long did it take for you to get the songs to a place where it's like, okay, I'm ready to put this out? Cause as songwriters, sometimes y' all live in y' all head a lot and y' all hear things that other people don't hear. Are you one of those people that it takes you a while to get the album done or is it like, yo, I got the record, this is it, I'm pushing it.

[Trevor Jackson]

Oh yeah, dude, I finished it in two and a half weeks. This album, so fast. And I didn't go back. You know what I mean? There might have been some production stuff that, you know, the team wanted to change, but in terms of my vocal performance, my edits and all that, as long as it's close to the moment that it happened. It's real. It's the realest version of it. I don't want to meddle.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

With the. You know what I'm saying?

[Mal]

I feel like that's how a lot of artists up everything.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mal]

Let's just sit. And then it's like, all right, well, let's just be able to make it. No, no, that was the moment.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Mal]

All the energy was in that.

[Trevor Jackson]

Absolutely. Dude, I was feeling so much, and the only way I could articulate it if this was if I made it there now, if I took a minute, and I probably would have tried to be cool about it, you know what I mean? Instead of being so. The funny thing is, I have, like, four albums that are finished, complete, not gonna change. They're already. Order everything. They're finished. And, you know, some of the team and I were like, maybe we do another one. And I was like, there's no way. Like, this has to come out first so I can release this.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Trevor Jackson]

And then, you know, I mean, I.

[Rory]

Can move on to the next one.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah. Move on to the next.

[Rory]

Did you work with anybody on this album, or is this all, like, in house, your team?

[Trevor Jackson]

This is mainly in house. Me and my brother, Ian Jackson, Shout out and then Brunis. Charles played a lot of guitar and there's a few other. Maybe like one or two other producers. But I wrote probably 90% of the album. And, yeah, man, it came together in a beautiful way.

[Rory]

Is there any artist that you've worked with that you want to work with again? Or any artists that you've never worked with that you like, Yo, I gotta get a record with. I gotta get a studio with this person.

[Trevor Jackson]

Absolutely. So writers, by the way, I want to shout out. Mike J, one of the most incredible songwriters of all time, wrote Turn up the music for Chris Brown. He's just. He's an animal. So him and I did Worth fighting for, which is on this album that you'll hear. So I want to work with him again. Dom and Darius, incredible. They're Black Tuxedo is their name together. Eric Bellinger worked with him and will always work with him. Like, he's one of the few people at first that kind of in music, you know, that was like that dude right there, right. And. And after, I'm like, this dude writes smashes.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

And you think my is tight, right?

[Mal]

Yeah, he doesn't play.

[Trevor Jackson]

You know what I'm saying? And that's how I felt. And, you know, he took me on tour with him, bro. Like, it really meant a lot to me, so that's somebody I'll always respect and be there for.

[Rory]

Eric is dope.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah. Good. Good dude. And then also Sean Stockman. From Boys to Men. That was another shot of go.

[Mal]

Like, Sean is our guy.

[Trevor Jackson]

Hey, bro, you're doing it. Everything that you said you wanted. If you're looking at us and being like, hey, we. You. You're doing it. We're so proud of you. We see everything you're doing and you keeping it alive. Let's go. Right? And I'm almost crying when they're talking and they thought I was playing around. They're like, is this guy for. I was like, no. You guys, I've listened to you my whole life. Like, yeah. And not just listen to you. Like, like, played the run a million times, so I can do it. There's actually a song on the album called. Called Kept It. Oh, no, no, no. Not Kept It. Is it man of Steel? One of the damn songs. But the riff is the exact same from Yesterday or Bending Knees.

[Mal]

We'll cut that apart. So you keep the publishing.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah. Right. It's just a. I changed it a little. I changed a little, you know? Yeah.

[Mal]

No, it was interpretation, but.

[Trevor Jackson]

Right. That's how much I love these guys. It's like, yo. So when I'm. When they're. When these people were telling me that. When you're asking me, maybe insecurities. When I had that from them. Yeah, those vanished.

[Mal]

Who are some of the songwriters that you would like to work with? Or. Or some that just inspired you when.

[Trevor Jackson]

When you were growing up? I want to work with Drake. I want to work with Wayne. I want to work with Rascal Flats. I want to work with. I hate this. I always get this question and then later on, be in the car, like, why didn't I say. Yeah?

[Mal]

I meant more just songwriter. I mean, of course, Drake, Wayne, and all them are songwriters, but, you know, specifically down to what, you know, you were saying with Eric Bellinger is. Outside of him.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Mal]

An amazing artist. We know his pen is what, Animal.

[Trevor Jackson]

I would like to work with Pooh Bear.

[Mal]

Of course. Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

Beast. I've worked with Diane Warren a bunch, and she's incredible. And we got records. So many albums I'll tell you about. She got some on those. Right. And everything, too, that I've done. Guys, is so story. Like, this is all a part of the story. So the. The album that came out before this. It's complicated. This album that's coming out as the prequel to that right? So that album is basically on the guy on the side. We still mess around. We still mess around. Then the breakup album comes out, and then the next album is like, okay, we're not together anymore. I'm going back outside. Kind of how all my homies told me to handle the breakup is what motion is.

[Rory]

Okay, Right.

[Trevor Jackson]

They're all like, you go back outside.

[Mal]

How did they tell you? Cause Mal is probably the worst homie that you could ever be next to. When you go into a breakup crying.

[Trevor Jackson]

Over a chick right now, listen.

[Mal]

Yeah, I'd be going through it. Mall's like, yo, you got two days to cry. And then shut the up, man.

[Rory]

Get that.

[Mal]

I'm like, no, I'm hurting right now.

[Rory]

You get a weekend, go through it.

[Trevor Jackson]

That ain't long enough. Cry.

[Rory]

You know what I'm saying? You ain't got a shower, stay in bed. But after that, this is like, yo, come on, family, we gotta keep. We gotta move. I like that energy, though, because it's like, I get it. You get heartbroken and depending on what happened in the relationship, it hurts. And yeah, you know, you become accustomed to this person always being.

[Trevor Jackson]

That's what it more is. I think for a lot of people is the habitual.

[Rory]

Yeah, it's the habit. That's human nature. We all have habits. And when you.

[Mal]

After five years, can I get more than a weekend to get over this?

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah, you need a. I get it.

[Rory]

Like, I get it. But it's like, you can take another five years. You can take five years to get over this. Crazy.

[Trevor Jackson]

I don't get you. The next girl that you'd be like, I haven't dated in five years. That's a good pickup line.

[Rory]

Nah, never, never take five years to get over. No, no, no, we not doing that. How do you get into the mindset of when you're about to record music versus going on set to shoot? Is it a different, like, preparation or like, what is the. What is that? That. That time like, for you?

[Trevor Jackson]

Depending on the role, right. And. And the quantity of work. You know, if I have a few lines, I tend not to look at it. You know, if it's just a few like one liners here, I just. I want to be. It actually is very similar to the music. As close to the moment as possible. How would I really react to this? If I see it real quick, okay, ask me. And then however I respond, however my body moves. Right. That's the realest version. But that's kind of similar with the music. Like, as soon As a situation happens with me, I'm running downstairs. I gotta make this song. It's off of the, off of the initial feeling. But if there's a bigger batch of work, a bigger role and there's more words and maybe it's a different character, I would dive in. I would like to eventually do the Daniel Day Lewis, you know, the Joaquin Phoenix. Like I want to take three months and go live somewhere and then shoot the movie after I've lived there for three months, you know what I'm saying? And really, if I'm supposed to be a doctor, work, sleep in a hospital.

[Mal]

For months, you know what I'm saying? For real?

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah, I want that. And it took me actually I was supposed to do a film with Shia LaBeouf. It fell through due to some other stuff. But when we. For the film, I saw what it took because he's one of my favorite actors of all time, Charlie Buffett.

[Mal]

He's dope, incredible directors.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah, he's a. He's an animal. You know what I'm saying? Like, I. I've. It's almost like when you like if, if you see LeBron or Kobe or something in there on the court, like practicing it. It's like when I was like watching him.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

I'm like, oh, he's trying to murder this shit. Yeah, he wants to murder it, you know, and. And just the amount of work that he was doing. It was a cop movie and he had already been two months before I had met him. He was already going to the cop station every day. He had hours and hours of foot. He's asking him if he can record in the ride alongs and stuff. Like he wants to be it. He wants to be it.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

So I do want to do that at some point.

[Rory]

Is that is like what is your, your dream role? Like what is the.

[Trevor Jackson]

The movie superhero? I want to be Silver Surfer, but I'd love to be Silver Surfer or like a Miles Morales. An older Miles Morales or I'm spacing on the name, but there's a black Batman. That would be sick. And also any movie with Denzel.

[Rory]

What did you feel about the last Batman? Like a lot of people didn't like it cuz it was so dark and.

[Trevor Jackson]

Like Patterson was fire.

[Rory]

I thought, I thought it was fire. I thought that that was people. They didn't have the action that people are used to in Batman movies.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah. I'm a film guy though, right. So I like the long sequences. I like to zoom in. Like I'm into that a lot of movies. I love people. Like, that's boring. I'm like, that's cuz you're not watching it the way I'm watching it, Right. I'm watching it for other reasons. So I loved it. Matt Reeves, the director, went nuts. The coloring went nuts. The penguin went nuts. Colin Farrow, also one of my favorite actors.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

Colin Farrell, cousin nut. That's your cousin.

[Mal]

Oh, last name Pharaoh.

[Trevor Jackson]

Oh, your last name too. Oh, sick.

[Rory]

He did the.

[Mal]

I didn't do the color.

[Trevor Jackson]

You helped him prep for Penguin.

[Rory]

That's That. He killed that.

[Trevor Jackson]

But that's what I'm saying.

[Rory]

He killed that robo.

[Mal]

I was at the phone booth.

[Trevor Jackson]

Hey, that's.

[Mal]

I was. I was there.

[Rory]

That's an underrated movie.

[Mal]

No, I'm not. No, he's my father's second cousin. Yeah, no, I'm really not. I'm really not joking.

[Trevor Jackson]

Serious.

[Mal]

No, we don't talk. I'm talking like, I don't like him and I don't talk. But we went to the phone booth, dude.

[Trevor Jackson]

When people say, oh.

[Mal]

Like 10 times removed.

[Trevor Jackson]

But yeah, he's an animal, bro.

[Rory]

Yeah. Are there any.

[Mal]

We didn't go to the SWAT set, though. We weren't invited.

[Rory]

Yeah, no, not.

[Mal]

I was very mad. I was like, dad, we're not going to the SWAT set.

[Rory]

Are there any movies that you look at now and are inspired by, like, what did you think about the Sinners movie?

[Trevor Jackson]

Loved it. Loved it.

[Rory]

I heard that they're releasing it for Halloween.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah, they are and they should. Ryan Coogler, animal. Michael B. Jordan, animal. To me, that was his. He went crazy in that. And I was just so proud of it, honestly. Because I feel like when it's us, they find a way to make something off, right? Yeah, they find a way to, oh, he's either this or he's a little nerd, or he's a little blah, blah, blah. And he's never the guy, Right? And if it is a guy in the big movies, if there's a black dude in it, he has less lines or he does the stuff but not as good as the other. You know what I mean? I always feel this way. I'm always watching stuff like this and I'm like, that's. It's programming. It's like, hey, this is where I see. It will always be a little bit less. Right? So when I saw Sinners and everybody looked good, the lighting was good, sometimes it'll be that too. It'll be a movie and there's a black guy and they don't light them right. And then, you know, I mean, yeah, they lit everything, right. Everybody looked amazing. They look cool. They look strong. They looked.

[Rory]

Ah, yeah. Felt good. I was happy that I went to see that in the theater.

[Trevor Jackson]

Oh, you have to see it in theater.

[Rory]

Yeah. Because I. I was on the side of. I was like, I'll wait till this. Because movies only last, what, three weeks in the theaters now, if that, before they're streaming. But that Sinner's movie. I was glad that I got to go to the theater and experience that movie because I thought it was dope.

[Trevor Jackson]

It was really, really dope.

[Rory]

And the actor. What's the singer? What's his name?

[Trevor Jackson]

Oh, yeah, he went crazy. The young bull. I. I don't know his name exactly. I'm spacing on his name.

[Rory]

I didn't realize he was really singing.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah, he's cold. I could tell. I could tell only because I just saw how he was in it. You can tell when somebody can't sing and they're trying to, like, fake scene.

[Rory]

Yeah, yeah. You can see it. But him, like, I just saw, like, a video of him singing, like, those songs live. I was like, wait, he's a singer?

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Me up.

[Trevor Jackson]

Acted his ass off in there.

[Rory]

He did. He did a great job.

[Trevor Jackson]

That's his first time, right? Yeah, yeah. Acted his butt off.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

And that's why I'm saying, like, who is this kid?

[Rory]

No, he killed it. He was the star of the movie. I mean, I get Michael B. Jordan character, but that was the start.

[Trevor Jackson]

It was the heart. It was the heart, you know, every time. That was such a good movie.

[Rory]

It was great.

[Trevor Jackson]

I got to rewatch.

[Mal]

You think traditional R and B is niche now?

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Mal]

You think it's. It'll never be over for traditional R and B. I would never be that person.

[Trevor Jackson]

Say.

[Mal]

Say that.

[Trevor Jackson]

Definitely niche. It's changing, you know, it's changing, but I hope to kind of try and keep it alive a little bit. But I definitely think it's. Yeah, it lost its place and that. That. I think it plays into this thing. Right. I think today's society effort is frowned upon, which I hate.

[Rory]

I think it's frowned upon.

[Trevor Jackson]

I think it's the most ridiculous thing, and it's my little nephews. It's not cool to try. Try.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

You gotta be. And I'm like, we're missing out on probably some of our greatest artists, painters, musicians, because they think it's not cool. I know this singer. I know this basketball player who can sing, and he would never sing in front of his friends because they would dog him. But this dude, a little white boy riffing his ass off. And he only does when we're around, right?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

But he would never tell his friends that he sings, you know what I'm saying? Because they. You know, and I think that plays into that, because to be a true RB artist, you have to sing your ass off.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

And there's not a lot of that. You know what I mean? So I think that's why. But I just want people out there to know it's okay to try. Okay to be good at something. And it's okay to put everything you have into things that you love. Like, that's not. Not cool. That's awesome.

[Rory]

That's crazy that you even have to say that.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah.

[Mal]

He didn't tell a lie at all.

[Rory]

You have to say that to people. Because, again, people think of this, you know, it's kind of like it's not cool to try some new things. Or.

[Trevor Jackson]

It's group think. It's group think. And that comes again. People are lonely. They want to fit in. So I'd rather fit in than actually follow my dreams. I'd rather be, you know, a part of something, even if I don't fully agree with it, because at least there's someone next to me. At least I'm. I'm not. You know, it's scary to be on earth in the middle of space and not know why you're here and still paying bills and still paying bills and paying for water. You know what I'm saying?

[Mal]

Debating over.

[Trevor Jackson]

Debating over waters. We're talking about Poland's friends here, dude. What the heck? You know what I'm saying? But it's. It's just wild to me, so I think that's what I always want to carry, man, is.

[Rory]

So what is it that Trevor can't do? Like, what are you terrible.

[Trevor Jackson]

Sit still.

[Rory]

Can't sit still. Still.

[Trevor Jackson]

That's the hardest thing for me. But no, no, I think.

[Rory]

Is it crack?

[Trevor Jackson]

Like, what is it?

[Mal]

Is it.

[Rory]

You can tell me. I'm from the hood, though. Like, I was born with it.

[Trevor Jackson]

Just some internal practice, right? No.

[Mal]

Trump told us yesterday that Tylenol. You been taking Tylenol? Whole lives I've been on crack.

[Trevor Jackson]

I didn't even know it.

[Mal]

I took Tylenol two days before Trump told me.

[Rory]

I was like, you're autistic now.

[Trevor Jackson]

I actually found, as I got older, it could be anxiety. You know what I mean? Even people would be like, oh, you're always singing. And I found out later in life, the vagal nerve that helps peace and, like, breathe and regulate your stuff. It's based in the back of your head, and when you sing, it vibrates and it calms. Calms it. So I would always be singing, and I'm thinking, hey, I'm just singing. But it was. It breathe, especially. I go into a new place. I remember. This is a funny story. I can tell this. So I meet Lil Wayne. And I don't really meet him because I'm scared, right? But I'm good friends with Twist. We go to meet him. It's his birthday. And my brother. Brother, he's stronger than I am. He gets up and walks over to Wayne, and I didn't want to. It was like. He was, like, behind the thing. I didn't want to come around and.

[Rory]

Like, yeah, it's a little awkward, so.

[Trevor Jackson]

I just kind of sit down. But then I start. We're sitting kind of next to the table, and I start singing, and he's. Iron's like, hit my leg, bro. Why are you. I was like, I don't know. I'm nervous.

[Rory]

Oh, so you do that to relax?

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah, I was like, I'm nervous. And he was like, he's gonna think you're trying to sing in front of him, so we'll get on the song. I'm like, that's not true.

[Mal]

I'm just saying that's not stressful.

[Rory]

What song were you saying? Sing it, though.

[Trevor Jackson]

Whatever song was playing, okay.

[Rory]

It was, like, some song if somebody just starts busting out and sneezing.

[Trevor Jackson]

But, dude, I totally was. And then even in that moment, I was like, yeah, maybe that's why I do it, because I'd be nervous.

[Rory]

So the only thing you can't do is sit still.

[Trevor Jackson]

Sit still. No, I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of things I can't do. I just don't like the word can't. I feel like I could figure it out, you know? Right. And everything in life that I've really wanted to do, I've. I've done, like. I was like, I want to play guitar. I play guitar. I want to surf. I surf. I want to. I'm sure if I woke up, wanted to be a pot in pottery class, I. I could do that. But I think the. The best thing about it is I follow my heart. I follow things I want. And that's why I feel like I'm. I'm happy.

[Rory]

You know, that's dope that you keep like that about you, because this industry will rip all that away from you.

[Trevor Jackson]

Yeah, you can't.

[Mal]

Been in it since 8. I'm sure they've tried.

[Rory]

Definitely tried.

[Mal]

Before we let you go, I was having a. A argument with my dad about a. AI we were talking about sports first.

[Trevor Jackson]

This is crazy, guys. It's here.

[Mal]

And I was like, yo, boxing and track are the purest forms of athletics on earth. There's no way AI could infiltrate that. Then we started to talk about the arts, which have already been infiltrated. I said, Broadway on stage is the purest form of art that's ever existed since the 1600s. AI cannot with Broadway. I'm just someone that buys a ticket to Broadway. You've been inside that entire world. Do you think AI could ever.

[Trevor Jackson]

With what is going on, guys? AI is.

[Mal]

Let's talk about who's buying a ticket to a Broadway show with AI you're.

[Trevor Jackson]

Not even gonna know. That's. That's where we're headed. They're gonna look like this. They're gonna look like this.

[Mal]

It's not Broadway then if it looks.

[Trevor Jackson]

That's. That's where we're headed, though, is what I'm saying. You're not gonna be able to tell the difference. And that's the scary part, is that, you know, it gets scared to even talk about. Because I'm obsessed with, you know, all these. I've seen almost every movie, you know, about AI and all this stuff. And it's like we are literally in it. And people. That's why I get frustrated too. People like to joke around about instead of just, you know, sit in what's really happening. This shit is changing vast. It's changing fast, and it's changing, like, in a big way. And we gotta talk about it. You know what I'm saying?

[Mal]

How do you think they could do that, though, with Broadway? Like, it's easy to see how they could replace as far as anything in Pro Tools, anything with artists, but anything with vocals.

[Trevor Jackson]

There's already robots. There's already the humanoid robots. Then they're gonna add skin. Then they're gonna add a voice. Like, it's. It's artificial intelligence. One of my favorite movies. And they were hitting the money on the head. And then it's going to be them versus us type, by which I hope it's not, you know, I mean, but it will be that. That's where we're going. The next play video game, next 300 years. They will look like us and sound like us and walk around like us.

[Rory]

They just signed that R&B.AI to the $3 million.

[Trevor Jackson]

That's ridiculous.

[Rory]

I don't even.

[Trevor Jackson]

But it's a million dollar.

[Rory]

You know why? It's so ridic. It's so ridiculous that I didn't even read it.

[Trevor Jackson]

No, I didn't either.

[Rory]

I refused to even listen to the.

[Trevor Jackson]

That like, you know, I like, saw it.

[Rory]

What does that even mean? That an AI artist signed an A. $3 million.

[Trevor Jackson]

That means a very rich man paid a computer guy to create a person and create a sound. And paid. Yeah. And said that he gave the person 3 million. But you can't give an AI artist $3 million.

[Mal]

Okay. The same thing that's going on with Radio. We're going to save this for another full episode because I already have this theory of the AI artist. The same way Radio is going through his RICO of how they're laundering money. These AI artists are being created and going into the algorithm. The algorithm to launder the $3 million.

[Trevor Jackson]

That you just gave them.

[Mal]

It doesn't exist. You're setting this, you're setting the price based off the stream. And now you're putting an artist. You're laundering that $3 million to come right back to you.

[Trevor Jackson]

Doesn't make any sense.

[Mal]

Laundering.

[Trevor Jackson]

And the world is so not here here that they're like, oh, my God. What. You know what I'm saying? That's how people respond to you. Oh, my God.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

Instead of being like, you know what I mean?

[Rory]

That's a little crazy.

[Trevor Jackson]

And that's probably the scariest part too. And I'm sure you guys can attest this, because you guys are smart men is like also knowing that most of the world doesn't give a.

[Rory]

They don't.

[Mal]

That's 99.99 does.

[Trevor Jackson]

That is scary to me, bro.

[Rory]

But as an artist, as somebody that is as passionate as you are about arts, how does that keep you motivated to want to keep doing it when you see things like this happen?

[Trevor Jackson]

Oh, I think honestly, it. It motivates me in an amazing way. It makes me want to go even harder. But I think this album kind of speaks to the truth about humanity. Right. Like, I don't feel like a robot could write a breakup song that would feel like these. You know what I'm saying? Because even that thing, even though I didn't listen to it, I heard the voice. The voice doesn't. I can't feel it really. Kind of sounds a little. Yeah. Rope. Tronic. Yeah.

[Rory]

You could tell. It's very pieced together.

[Trevor Jackson]

Even just the way you put words like you know, I've seen people like, hey, make an AI Song. And it's simple. It's cool, but it's. It's not life experience. It's not. You can. You can. You can tell.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Trevor Jackson]

So I think that'll be the separating factor. But then again, they're about to take minds and be able to put them into. You know what I'm saying? We're already here, guys. Open the computer. Look, some stuff happening. Because it's already here.

[Rory]

It's happening.

[Trevor Jackson]

I'm a rose robot.

[Mal]

Yeah. No.

[Trevor Jackson]

Could you imagine? That would be nerds. That'd be a way to drop a bomb on the world. The first to the truth. That's why he does so many things.

[Rory]

That's why he can't sit still.

[Trevor Jackson]

That's why he's short circuiting all the. Yeah, yeah.

[Mal]

We got to give him oil before we close. You or Jason Weaver?

[Trevor Jackson]

Jason Weaver.

[Mal]

Okay.

[Trevor Jackson]

Jason Weaver.

[Mal]

I was shot. That was my.

[Rory]

But wait, what's the. What is the question?

[Mal]

Like, he knew the question right away.

[Rory]

Yeah, I don't. Can you let me in on the question?

[Mal]

Just can't wait to be king.

[Rory]

Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. I'm like, wait, I'm Jay Weave. That's my guy.

[Mal]

Like, no, that's our brother.

[Rory]

Yeah. All right. So, Trevor, tell the people the album.

[Trevor Jackson]

When album comes out tomorrow. It's called I love you. Well, no EP comes out tomorrow. Album comes out in November. And please listen to it. If you ever had your heart broken or haven't yet.

[Mal]

It'll happen.

[Trevor Jackson]

It'll happen.

[Rory]

It'll happen.

[Trevor Jackson]

You'll be pressing. Play on this.

[Rory]

Just wait for it. Grey's Anatomy again. Congratulations on the role in Grey's Anatomy, Major. And we support you. Anytime you back in New York, come by and kick it with us.

[Trevor Jackson]

I will, man. I had a blast, y'. All. I'm. That.

[Rory]

He's just Ginger. That's Trevor Jackson.

[Trevor Jackson]

Let's go, GG boys. Yeah. This is sick, dude. Thank you, bro. My love, man. No worrying now.

[Matt Jones]

Hey, this is Matt Jones and I'm Drew Franklin, and this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to get. Give you an NFL perspective a little bit different.

[Rory]

Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.

[Matt Jones]

What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get.

[Trevor Jackson]

Listen.

[Matt Jones]

NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Dan]

I'm Dan. He's Ty.

[Mal]

Hello.

[Dan]

And we're the Solid Verbal College Football Podcast Podcast.

[Ty]

Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan.

[Dan]

Join us all season long as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport.

[Ty]

Listen to the Solid verbal college football podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dan]

We don't just love college football, Ty. We live it.

[AJ Jacobs]

Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings appearance on the puzzler with A.J. jacobs. The question is what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy Truthers believe in?

[Trevor Jackson]

I guess they would be conspiracy theorists.

[AJ Jacobs]

That's right.

[Trevor Jackson]

They give you the answers and you still blew it.

[AJ Jacobs]

The Puzzler. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Trevor Jackson]

This is an iHeart podcast.