Episode 311 | Are Journalists Bigger Than Artists?

Summary

Podcast Summary: New Rory & MAL – Episode 311 | Are Journalists Bigger Than Artists?

Release Date: October 15, 2024

Introduction: Halloween Shenanigans and Weekend Recap

The episode begins with casual banter about October and the joys of the fall season. Hosts Rory, Mal, Julian, and Damaris share humorous stories about their Halloween preparations, including playful mishaps with pumpkin painting. Rory recounts his daughter Amara's creative (and slightly creepy) pumpkin face design, leading to laughs and discussions about upcoming costume plans [00:00 – 05:00].

Main Topic Introduction: Shifting Dynamics in the Music Industry

The conversation swiftly transitions to a significant trend in the music industry: top artists like J. Cole, Kendrick Lamar, and Drake releasing music outside of traditional Digital Streaming Platforms (DSPs) like Spotify and Apple Music. Rory highlights how these artists are leveraging platforms like Twitter and Instagram to distribute their music independently [07:00 – 14:00].

Artists Bypassing DSPs: Implications and Insights

Rory delves deeper into the implications of this shift, emphasizing that major artists are reclaiming control over their music distribution. He notes, “Everything is being released away from the machine. And I think that's going to make shit a lot more fun” [10:27]. The hosts discuss how bypassing DSPs allows artists to test the waters, gather direct feedback, and potentially reduce reliance on major streaming platforms [12:15 – 24:00].

Julian adds that this trend could herald a return to the SoundCloud mixtape era, where artists had more autonomy and creative freedom. He speculates, “I think we're going back to more of that SoundCloud mixtape wave before we were forced to have to put every last fucking thing onto DSPs” [14:53]. This move could empower artists to experiment without the constraints of platform algorithms and sample clearance issues [17:20 – 24:00].

Impact on the Music Industry and DSPs

The discussion shifts to the potential long-term effects on the music industry. Rory warns that if more artists follow this path, it could “cripple” DSPs over time, as direct-to-fan releases become more prevalent [15:33]. The hosts consider how streaming platforms might need to adapt, possibly incorporating more artist-owned content and direct licensing deals [17:20 – 24:00].

Russ’s Confrontation with Journalists: A Case Study

A focal point of the episode is the heated exchange between artist Russ and a journalist on Twitter. Russ criticizes the journalist, asserting that “journalists are not bigger than artists” and emphasizing the importance of artistic autonomy [30:06]. This confrontation sparks debate among the hosts about the evolving role of journalists in a landscape where artists control their narrative more tightly [24:00 – 35:00].

Mal and Damaris argue for a symbiotic relationship between media and artists, highlighting that journalists play a crucial role in promoting music and providing critical perspectives. In contrast, Rory and Julian explore the potential downsides, questioning whether this shift could undermine journalistic integrity and objectivity [35:00 – 45:00].

Broader Implications for Journalism and Media

The hosts explore the broader implications of Russ’s stance, suggesting that if major artists continue to reject traditional media channels, it could lead to a significant reshaping of how music is promoted and critiqued. Rory notes, “I think they have been following suit with each one… subconsciously playing the same game” [24:43]. Julian adds that without major label deals, artists have more freedom but also bear the responsibility of managing their own media presence [14:53 – 24:00].

Voicemails: Classroom Management and Gaslighting Debate

In the latter part of the episode, the hosts engage with listener voicemails, covering diverse topics from classroom management strategies to internal debates about gaslighting among the hosts.

1. Classroom Management Strategies: A teacher named Maddie shares her tactic of countering student slang by reading lyrics in a dramatic, outdated style to dissuade usage. The hosts discuss effective ways to handle disruptive language and maintain classroom decorum [83:00 – 94:00].

2. Gaslighting Debate: The conversation becomes heated as Damaris accuses other hosts of gaslighting, leading to a spirited debate about the definition and occurrence of gaslighting within their interactions. Rory defends himself by referencing behaviors and misunderstandings, while Damaris insists on specific instances of manipulation [94:00 – 112:00].

Conclusion: Reflecting on Industry Trends and Interpersonal Dynamics

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reflect on the importance of adapting to industry changes while maintaining personal and professional relationships. They emphasize the need for balanced media approaches and the ongoing evolution of artist-media dynamics. The episode concludes with announcements of upcoming events and a lighthearted sign-off [112:00 – End].

Notable Quotes:

• Rory on Artist Independence: “Everything is being released away from the machine. And I think that's going to make shit a lot more fun.” [10:27]

• Russ on Journalistic Integrity: “Your career does not exist without artists. Your job is to stand on the sideline... Relax.” [30:06]

• Julian on DSP Implications: “I think we're going back to more of that SoundCloud mixtape wave that was of 10 years ago before we were forced to have to put every last fucking thing onto DSPs.” [14:53]

• Rory on Industry Shifts: “I'm not sure it's going to be a major effect anytime soon. But I see the breadcrumbs that are being laid by the three biggest artists… something they all notice within the three of them.” [13:56]

• Damaris on Gaslighting Definition: “Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse where a person causes someone to question their sanity, memories, or perception of reality.” [88:00]

Key Insights and Conclusions:

1. Autonomy and Control: Top artists are increasingly seeking autonomy by releasing music independently of DSPs, utilizing social media platforms to reach their audience directly.

2. Industry Disruption: This trend could disrupt existing music distribution models, potentially diminishing the influence of streaming platforms and reshaping revenue streams.

3. Journalist-Artist Relationship: The confrontation between Russ and journalists highlights tensions over narrative control and the evolving role of media in an artist-dominated landscape.

4. Media Adaptation: As artists gain more control over their releases, media professionals may need to adapt by building stronger personal brands and direct fan engagement.

5. Interpersonal Dynamics: The episode underscores the importance of clear communication and understanding within professional relationships, as evidenced by the heated debate on gaslighting.

Final Thoughts:

Episode 311 of New Rory & MAL provides an insightful exploration into the shifting dynamics of the music industry, particularly the growing trend of artist independence from traditional DSPs. The hosts engage in a lively debate about the implications for journalists and the broader media landscape, underscoring the need for adaptability and mutual respect. Amidst the main discussion, listener interactions add a personal touch, revealing the hosts' ability to navigate both industry-wide trends and interpersonal challenges with candidness and humor.

For listeners who haven’t tuned in, this episode offers a comprehensive look at how major shifts in music distribution and media relations are influencing the industry’s future, all delivered with the hosts' characteristic wit and depth.

Transcript

[Rory]

No worry.

[Mal]

And now.

[Rory]

And we are back. Top of the week. Who's excited? October is flying by. Cannot believe we already halfway through this month. My favorite month, might I add.

[Damaris]

Your ball, baby.

[Rory]

Well, no, I was born in May, but I. October tends to have the. My favorite weather.

[Damaris]

You look like you took your first steps in photo.

[Rory]

May, May, June.

[Julian]

Now, you were walking by then.

[Rory]

I mean, I appreciate the confidence. Six months in.

[Mal]

No, he was.

[Julian]

You don't walk by.

[Rory]

Amara was, like, nine or 10 months. She was early, so. I mean, I appreciate that, but. No, I was probably still crawling, but, like, through the leaves, because I love the fall.

[Damaris]

Yeah. Foliage.

[Rory]

It's actually. We've actually gotten some good weather. I feel like in October, it's been nice out.

[Damaris]

I can't complain about. The weather's sunny, but, you know, a little breezy.

[Rory]

That was so insensitive. That was so local.

[Damaris]

Was it?

[Rory]

There's been awful weather for the past.

[Julian]

I know.

[Rory]

Like, five weeks.

[Julian]

A third of this country's underwater right now.

[Rory]

I'm such a selfish.

[Julian]

It's sweater weather up here, though.

[Rory]

Yeah. Yeah. I've had my. My pumpkin spice latte.

[Julian]

Cute outside taking flicks.

[Rory]

How was your weekend?

[Damaris]

It was good. It was cool, quiet, calm.

[Rory]

I was in family mode. Had everyone in my house did painted pumpkins, you know.

[Damaris]

That's nice.

[Julian]

What'd you paint her?

[Rory]

Her face. Amara completely missed the pumpkin.

[Mal]

Oh, thank God you were talking about Amara.

[Rory]

Okay, where's your mind going? I said it was a family weekend where we were painting.

[Julian]

Oh, you went there.

[Rory]

You're nasty. Ew. Stop listening. That Glorilla album.

[Mal]

You just said nothing. We didn't really do nothing. Like, I just paint. And he was like, what did he paint? You said her face.

[Rory]

You never mentioned asking what. I'm like, what Amara painted on the.

[Mal]

Pumpkin is what I never mentioned Amara. You just said painted.

[Rory]

Who do you think me and my mom just painted pumpkins?

[Julian]

Oh, my God. You're making it weirder. Painting face. That's what she's. She's not referring to pumpkins.

[Rory]

There's nothing sexual about this conversation. I was with my family over the weekend. It's around Halloween. We painted pumpkins with the children in our family. Painted pumpkins?

[Julian]

Ah.

[Rory]

And Amara.

[Julian]

That's what the priest called it.

[Rory]

The paintbrush. And instead of painting any pumpkins or any markers on any paper, completely covered her face.

[Julian]

Like, was the paint black?

[Rory]

It was very close to it, but she was really good. It almost like she put blue lipstick on. It was very creepy. I can't Lie like I saw a demon child and I got really nervous.

[Mal]

Did you take a picture?

[Rory]

I do have a picture. I mean, obviously we're not going to put it on the screen.

[Mal]

Yeah, Just me.

[Damaris]

Yeah, it was the Internet. I found it. In 20 years. Show her black face.

[Julian]

Yeah. Big red lips.

[Damaris]

They'll find it. It's in your phone now, but it'll be on the Internet in 20 years.

[Rory]

Would you consider that blackface? That was just the beginning. It's more joker.

[Damaris]

Yeah, that's more joker. That's not blackface.

[Rory]

You should have seen the end result when I was done, though. I then.

[Damaris]

Oh, you.

[Rory]

I put for her Halloween costume.

[Damaris]

Oh, okay.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

Oh, yeah.

[Rory]

What you land on ahead of her cancellation?

[Julian]

Roy, do you have a cop?

[Rory]

Doesn't everyone from Facebook have a blackface photo from when they were in high school?

[Damaris]

Of course.

[Julian]

Do you guys have a group costume yet this year?

[Rory]

Yeah, I think we're gonna go. We did Ghostbusters last year because she's marshmallow, but she's really obsessed with Mickey Mouse Club now, so I think she's gonna be Minnie Mouse. We're not gonna go overthink it.

[Damaris]

Okay.

[Rory]

So who should I be, though? I haven't ordered mine yet. Go straight as Mickey or.

[Damaris]

No, you should be the big guy. Walt Disney.

[Mal]

Duck.

[Rory]

I like how you're thinking out of the box. I never even considered that you should be Walt Disney. Kia can go be Donald Duck and I'll be Walt Disney. Yeah, especially with the times.

[Damaris]

Exactly. Walter. Disney.

[Julian]

Walter.

[Rory]

Walter. As it is. All right, we're back. We. We considered that I was going to be Walt Disney. And I will just get just a regular old man suit.

[Julian]

Yeah, that's a Hugo Boss jacket.

[Rory]

Yeah. And Kia. She can figure it out, but. Yeah. What about you guys?

[Julian]

Halloween plans.

[Rory]

You guys too cool for Halloween? People don't dress up anymore.

[Damaris]

Well, I thought about it, but I don't know. I don't know what I would want to be following or who I would want to be. I want to be somebody.

[Rory]

Question. I think like a.

[Damaris]

Like a. A current, I guess, figure in a movie or something. I was thinking, like, that you should go as Kendrick. It's too many. It's too many serial killers is Kendrick Lamar. Yeah. No.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Damaris]

Why would I do that?

[Rory]

He's a boogeyman. All right, My bad. What? Why are you guys giving me bad looks? I'm in a good mood today. Okay. What would you guys be for Halloween?

[Julian]

I don't. I have no plans.

[Mal]

I want to be a game of Thrones character, but I don't have the patience and the time to really curate. Like, people really be out here curating looks for Halloween, and I don't have the patience or the time for that shit. So I'm just gonna be a whore ass bunny at the lotto concert.

[Rory]

Just put on lingerie and some years keep it simple. But I thought everyone in Game of Thrones like, ass naked the whole time anyways.

[Mal]

No.

[Rory]

Aren't they all?

[Mal]

They have sweaty outfits, mad clothes on. Oh, mad cloth on. Yeah.

[Julian]

It's what made those sex scenes so awkward because they have to take off, like, 50 layers.

[Mal]

Yeah. They were watching this one dude take off armor, like, piece by piece to have sex, like, bro, pussy dried up by now. I'm not going to do all that.

[Rory]

That's why I used to hate, like, those Kappa cruises and, like, the formal events because, like, I'm not good at taking buttons off. That would be a lot bow tie, then that top one, because it would always be too, like, slim around my neck. That was always awkward.

[Damaris]

We'd be in a Kappa at a Halloween party.

[Rory]

We would do, like, formal parties. Like, you actually dress up and, you know, people would consensually fornicate afterwards. And to get out of all of that stuff is tough. Like, usually the pussy might be dry when I have to go back into the bathroom in the mirror and try to take off this.

[Julian]

Having to do that. Crazy.

[Mal]

No, just leave it on. Let me choke you with it. Sorry. It's Monday. Happy Monday. My bad.

[Rory]

Did you guys do anything over the weekend?

[Julian]

Yeah, I had a great weekend. Boss was in town and they did a Sudanese fundraiser, which is incredible.

[Rory]

Oh, nice.

[Julian]

There's an amazing group of women put it together, who's at an amazing event space in Brooklyn. MoMA DJ'd boss performed like, five or six records. They raised a ton of money.

[Mal]

Love that.

[Julian]

It's really, really fun and educational. And they were selling paintings and photographs from Sudanese artists. It was, like, very informative. I learned a lot, danced a lot. It was fun.

[Rory]

Yeah. Saw the stuff on your ig. Looked really cool. Was it theater, too?

[Julian]

They. Yeah. So the. I think the. The women that were hosting it, either either they made it or they had other Sudanese people in the community make it, but it was all homemade Sudanese food into the line. The entire event was wrapped around, like, it was. They. I don't know how much food they made, but they fed hundreds of people. It was great.

[Rory]

I love that.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Rory]

After you guys did all the good deeds, what. What did you get? Into after that.

[Julian]

There were. Yeah.

[Rory]

Crew.

[Julian]

There were plans.

[Rory]

Because there's a work life balance there.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Julian]

That ended it too. Which we stayed to the. To the end. We were hanging out like downstairs, like the let out. And then there was. We were either going to go to Disclosure, which was at the Knockdown center.

[Rory]

Which I wouldn't know any of these.

[Julian]

Words or Disclosure is a big like DJ group. They're great.

[Rory]

We talk about the group. That was a venue. No, Disclosure is the group.

[Julian]

Yeah. And then there was another thing, but that was further away. And then this is what I love about this crew. We dubbed both of them and just went to a dive bar until they shut down until 4 in the morning.

[Rory]

Nice.

[Julian]

It was very nice. It was a good weekend.

[Mal]

Means.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Damaris, you meal prepped. Thank you for bringing in food today.

[Mal]

Did you enjoy it?

[Rory]

I loved. It was great. I mean, I haven't had your cooking in a very long time.

[Mal]

Red beans and rice. I. Yeah, I cooked. I vlogged. Got my vlogging off. I, you know, I stayed in the house. I didn't leave other than go. Go into the gym and Whole Foods. Yeah, I was in the house this weekend.

[Julian]

Oh, and I went to the Knicks yesterday.

[Mal]

Oh, yeah, we saw that.

[Julian]

We look good.

[Mal]

Feet were touching the. The floor.

[Julian]

That was row five.

[Rory]

Could you hear what DiVincenzo really said at the line?

[Julian]

So. Yes. Yeah. For those that don't know, he was.

[Rory]

Just traded to the Timberwolves. The Timberwolves were playing the Knicks. DiVincenzo yelled something to the Knicks bench while he was shooting a free throw.

[Julian]

And Julius, who he didn't play, but it was cool. What I love about Julius was like, he was all the old Knicks staff, you know, like the people that really are running the show behind the scenes were all coming up to him and he was like, so happy to, like, reunite and see everyone again. It was like, cool to see them interact with people that they clearly, you know, had formed relationships with over the years. Even Genzo was ready for the spotlight, man. He was talking shit all game. Him and Edwards are running the Devo was pretty much running the point. Edwards was kind of playing the two. And I mean, Edwards is a fucking Jesus Christ. He's going to dominate the league. But it was a really good game. They did not play like a preseason game. They were all very competitive. Cat, he'll get like, he's. There's still flashes of him being a little too soft for my liking, but he hit some big threes. We're good. The Knicks are going to be great this year. I can go on and on about them.

[Rory]

But you didn't go to the game.

[Damaris]

To the Knicks game?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

No.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Damaris]

The Knicks.

[Rory]

Well. But the Timberwolves were there. Julius.

[Damaris]

I'm not Timber Wolves fan.

[Julian]

Julius, I was going to say, what's your loyalty? Still the Lakers.

[Damaris]

Yeah. Still a Lakers fan. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we suck, too. It doesn't matter.

[Rory]

Bronnie and LeBron played together. I did not watch it at all. And we can get out sports now.

[Damaris]

Yeah, I watched some of that the first game that they played together. It was cool to just see that. But Bronny, you know, he has a long way to go and hopefully he'll get there, but he'll have all the support and all the access to get better and train and things like that. But right now he's, you know, you can tell he's still trying to catch up with the NBA game, but, you know, give him grace. He had a health scare just a year ago.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

Where he didn't, you know, basketball aside, just making sure he's. He's okay health wise. But, you know, he'll get there, though. But he has a long way to go because I'm looking at some of the other teams, other rookies that are playing, and, you know, they look good. So Bronnie has a. He has a. He has a ways to go. But it was cool to see first father, son, teammates in the NBA on the floor together. So that was cool. Yeah.

[Julian]

Still, over the weekend, after we left the studio on Thursday, Rory texted me a conversation that we were meant to have on that last Friday episode, but we're going to have now. The idea that the big three, Cole, Kendrick and Drake have all been putting out their last few releases, have all not been on proper DSP releases, but doing so on either Twitter or Instagram, kind of releasing it on their own terms on their own pages, which Rory put into this tweet here, if you want to read it, Rory, it's your words.

[Rory]

Yeah. I mean, again, we didn't get around to this last week, but this was a conversation that I wanted to have and have been noticing outside of, like the regular rap beef shit, these guys being the three most important rappers, period, right now, with the most power, the most leverage, the most everything. I think we should also note, while we're gossiping about everything else, that the last releases from Cole and Kendrick aren't on DSPs. Drake's last few drops were released on his website first. Even if the three biggest rappers aren't getting along. They're all on the same page as far as testing the waters on how we receive music. Even the Collard Green Daylight and J. Cole record. I saw the ad. It said available on all DSPs. Couldn't find it on a single fucking DSP. Everything is being released away from the machine. And I think that's noteworthy, but also important in what they're doing here with everything that's going on. Not like us, of course. Eventually had to get put up there as well as all these other records. But them doing it this way, I think is a way to collect data. I think all of them are going to go different routes come release time with their albums, too. I don't know if we're going to get Kendrick's album immediately on dsps. I don't know if we're going to get the next Drake release. Not on 100 gigs. Cole. I can almost guarantee the way they roll out music that's not going straight to DSPS right away. I think we're going back to more of that SoundCloud mixtape wave that was of 10 years ago before we were forced to have to put every last fucking thing onto DSPs. And I think that's going to make shit a lot more fun. There's less clearance samples, there's. There's less politics. When you go that route, you can figure out what works and then put some of the records on DSPs. I think this will make rap fun again if we can go this route as well.

[Damaris]

Stove. God, he just. He released his. His last album on his website.

[Rory]

And Rock Marciano has been doing this forever. I wasn't suggesting that these guys. And like Drake is the first one to put a website up and be.

[Damaris]

Like, if they're doing it, then clearly.

[Rory]

This is the three biggest rappers that you would think, no matter what, have to put their music up on DSPs. Like, they have stake within DSPs majors. Everything. The biggest moment in hip hop in God knows how long. None of it has been part of dsps. To the point that we have heard rumors of Spotify trying to make Not Like Us on every playlist and adding it to everyone's algorithms. Like they're trying to make themselves part of this moment. I know every Apple title, everyone is like, what the fuck? The biggest moment in hip hop. We had nothing to do with it. Yeah, it changes the tide a bit. I think that's the most noteworthy thing from this entire battle.

[Damaris]

What does it. What do you think it does to the industry as far as if the three the three guys are releasing the music the way they are. What does that mean for the rest of the artist? Do they follow suit? Can they follow suit?

[Rory]

Because a lot of people, that's my thing. I don't know if anyone can shift it in hip hop, it would be these three, obviously. But I don't know if that trickles down to the rest of the music industry because everyone else in the music industry needs the community. Like it's. It's tough to put out a hundred gigs.ovo.blogspot and have the traffic that Drake has. You're going to miss out like just because I'm on this podcast, I'll bring in my album. I know it has nothing to do with this. I wanted to just put my album out without putting out singles. They said you will reach maybe 20% of your audience if you do it that way. And that's me going to the community.

[Damaris]

Mm.

[Rory]

The DSP still allow you to put eyes on your music that no one else would see unless it was direct to consumer. So I don't know if everyone can do this. I'm just glad to see the people with power are starting to do it.

[Julian]

And not only that, and this is something we had mentioned when we spoke about this before, these guys are also in a very unique situation, obviously with their reach. But also they all don't have label deals. They're working for themselves. So they also don't owe it to a major or, you know, anybody else outside of themselves and their teams to. To service their music anywhere. So the difference is like with Rory saying, even if you're a successful like a theater touring artist, you still don't have the agency to be like, I don't want to put this out on Apple, Spotify. I want to put this out independently without your label intervening being like, that's that you're just not going to do that. We're not going to let you have to have that moment. So these guys are operating on a different level in terms of they can kind of move how they please.

[Damaris]

We've talked about it before, Rory. If an artist the caliber of a Drake decided to go independent.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

What does that do do to the DSPs? First of all, because we know how much he generates to DSPs, whether it's features, whether it's his own music. He's one of the most monthly listener listened to artists on ESPs. If he decides to go independent, does that cripple the music industry? Does that cripple the DSPs? Because we already seen signs of People going away from the dsp.

[Rory]

Not immediately whatsoever. But I think in time, if everyone stuck to that, yes, it would cripple because if we go back to our TikTok and universal conversation where we've seen every tech company fold to the music industry because they have the catalog and TikTok said, okay, we don't give a. We don't need the Universal catalog, which includes Drake and Taylor Swift. Let's point out two of the biggest artists, a tech company said, we don't need you. If the biggest artists move forward in this trend, yes, it would change over time. Where tech companies wouldn't need to go to DSPs or majors to get anything cleared, they can go direct to an artist because they would have their catalog to sell. So in time. But that would take like 20, 30 years I feel like. Yeah, but I think this is a cool step because like Julian said, this is the first time all three of them are out of a major deal and in a licensing deal. And I'm not going to pretend like I know anything about their licensing deal, but I think even with when the Party's over, that was the. The name of the Kendrick song.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

With the sample clearance there, I don't think anyone that at Universal with his licensing deal wanted to touch it. We can't really profit off. It has too many samples. But it still went out, still at an impact. Same thing with 6 16. That never hit dsps. Too many samples on that. I know his licensing deal probably sat there and said, I'm not clearing that shit. What would be the point? I'm not dealing with this back and forth shit. Put it up on Instagram, put it on YouTube and let someone else have to deal with it. I think now the licensing companies within Universal are now scrambling to figure out what they would do if artists decide to go this route even within their licensing deals, if they're not coming out ready to clear it with this budget, no sample music. What's your point here? I don't need you to distribute anything. Fuck, I need a license.

[Julian]

And the value of an artist, traditionally, at least for the majors, the value is always in catalog. So the major labels make like some odd 80 something, if not more percent of their revenue from back catalog. So you're very often like with these guys, even if it's these new one off singles, you're. The money's coming from the project Drake dropped 10 years ago. Really?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Which you know, so even I'm just looking at it. Pulled up some quick data of. Of the 2,010s from 2010 to 2020, 20, 2019, pardon me. Drake was the number one streamed artist with 36.3 billion streams. Number two being Post Malone with 18.9 billion. So we're looking at, you know, a lion's share of revenue and streaming from DSPs just coming from Drake alone. That's. I mean, I just want to put that out there.

[Mal]

How so, just to clarify, how are the artists benefiting from or how do you think the artists will end up benefiting from this? Because yes, obviously the data, but what else.

[Rory]

How else are they like currently with what they're doing right now? I think the only thing is straight up testing the waters to see how it's received, how many people see it. If it affects the casual fan. If they see it, it's really about eyes. I think at this point, what age groups are going after it. I think it's just data collecting. And what a perfect time to use a rap beef where everyone's clicking everything because they want to see the next gossipy fucking bar. So it's a perfect time to at least with the most traffic, figure out if this is something that can work and to have conversations with Instagram, have conversations with Twitter. Elon's putting up full fucking episodes. He's a whole news network with the. Tucker Carlson puts his shit out on Twitter. Yeah, you put a whole album out on Twitter right now. I think everything is just shifting once you get out of these slave deals that you can just try shit to see what happens. And I think they're already talking to tech companies. I could see TikTok has exclusive rights to use my sounds for this album and no one else. You may not actually receive the album on there, but that's the only app that. Where you can use on your video for J. Cole's new album. I think that's where things are shifting.

[Damaris]

It's gonna be interesting to see you talk about licensing. It's gonna be interesting to see how they integrate AI into these deals moving forward. Like, with an artist, you can use his likeness or you can license his likeness where he's not even. They say, oh, we're gonna put you on this song with this artist. But you don't have to come to the studio. You don't have to. Like, we got a writer. I mean, we're going to use your likeness. We're going to brand it as it being you. It's going to sound just like you. Because I think that's where a lot of this shit is going.

[Rory]

And I think that's like a separate licensing deal in itself. Like, all right, you can license my music and my catalog to do with what you want. If you want to be able to sell that to TikTok, if you want to be able to sell that to other apps, I think there will be a whole licensing agreement, too. You can use my voice with these writers, and I get to approve this song, this verse, and it can say featuring my name.

[Damaris]

Right.

[Rory]

Which. I don't know what that looks like. I'm not that deep in the music industry to know what they're going through right now with that. Because that has to be a thing.

[Damaris]

Oh, it's definitely a thing.

[Rory]

Of course we're hearing it. I'm just curious if that's going to be folded into a regular deal. Is that a whole new publishing company? Like, that's a. That's another part of it. Like, if I'm in a pub deal, which is. Has to do with what I write in my music, what's this AI deal where you. You're using my name and my voice as likeness and someone else is writing it and you're pushing it through your program. That has to be. That's a whole new publishing company.

[Damaris]

To me, I think that it. You know, a couple years ago, when everybody started to sell their catalogs, and I remember we would. We were talking. We're like, why? Why is everybody doing this? And that made sense.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

To sell your catalog so that, you know, you can only have. You don't have to deal with one person that owns all of it if you ever want to do anything with the music that was a part of it. But I also feel like even coming up to, you know, the DS, the way artists are not releasing on DSPs right away, they have their websites or whatever. I think all of this is connected somehow. I think it's tied in some way. Obviously, there's things that we're not privy to yet, but I do think it's interesting to watch these things happen in real time and then connect them to what has already happened. Cause they tried the AI thing with that artist that was. What was it? The white rapper?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

Remember, they tried that shit years ago. They tried that. Everybody kind of frowned at that. Like, that's a little weird, you know what I mean? But they're already showing us by the time we see it, they've already had these meetings and these conversations for at least two, three years already. So whatever's happening now, whatever's going on in those rooms now, I think that we're Just starting to see some of the breadcrumbs of a change coming in. The way artists release music, the way artists create music, and the way we have to go and receive the music.

[Rory]

And again, I'm really not trying to have a specific artist conversation or who's charting more or whatever, but that's kind of my point. Like Circadian Rhythm. That's the name of the Drake song, right?

[Damaris]

Circadian Rhythm, Yeah.

[Rory]

I see everyone on the timeline saying, yo, it's number 75 on the chart. I don't think he. He gives a single fuck. I don't think Kendrick gives a single fuck that y'all think that Let the Party Die flopped. I don't think Cole is looking at a single number of where Port's going to end up. This is all to see how people are receiving music and how people are clicking to listen to it. I don't think they give a fuck what charts and what doesn't.

[Damaris]

Right now, charts might not necessarily matter in the game that they're playing because.

[Rory]

I mean, charts are attached to DSPs, physicals, YouTube, etc. I. That's not the game I think they're looking into right now.

[Julian]

Whatsoever that stuff matters to. To again, like, to more so to playlisting. So, okay, this charts, this is number one on what's it, today's top hits or like Rap Nation? Then it matters. But when you're not playing those games, when you remove yourself from those games, then charts become null and void. Like, it doesn't. It's a. It's a stat. It's a measure. It's a measure that holds no value because we're not playing those games anymore.

[Rory]

It's a measure they made up.

[Julian]

Exactly. Yeah. It's. It's something to really make them feel important to. To. To bold in like, their hold in the whole culture. Like a p. Excuse me. A playlist is really a DSP's way of saying this is what we deem to be the culture. It's them trying to create the culture and control some sort of a narrative. But fuck the narrative that they created. We'll just do it on our own.

[Rory]

It's the bank setting the price of the dollar. It's the cops investigating themselves after they commit a crime. It's the same shit as far as Billboard and artists. And it's attached to everything that the industry controls and owns, which is dsps, because the majors have percentage of all that. I think they're all playing a completely different game and I think it affects everyone. I'm not sure it's going to be a major effect anytime soon. But I see the breadcrumbs that are being laid by the three biggest artists in the biggest moment in hip hop that we've had. And I think it's noteworthy, and I think it's something they all notice within the three of them. I think they probably all have some disdain for each other, but I think they've been following suit with each one. All right, you're doing just YouTube for this one. All right, I'll put this up on ig. I think they're subconsciously playing the same game. Yeah.

[Damaris]

I mean, they would have to be. I mean, they're three of the biggest artists. Some they have the same information when it comes to certain things. I'm sure they have relationships with some of the people that are controlling all of these platforms and things like that, so they're privy to the information. But again, I do think that it probably is a way to test see what their audience is doing and if their audience is gravitating towards whatever platforms that they choose to release the music on. But the bottom line, I think here is that we can clearly see that there is a change that is now here as far as the way artists are choosing to put their music up.

[Rory]

It's also. Well, actually, let me not say safe, because it's definitely the least safe option as possible, but I think it's the safest option for optics because we've seen that fans just pick a side. And the Internet was always weird, but this battle has made the Internet weirder than I've ever seen in my entire life. People that never even really liked hip hop to begin with are now, like, completely choosing their alliance to a side of an artist, which is nuts to me. If you go the different route through your website or through another channel like Instagram or something along those lines, you're not going to come back with big numbers whatsoever. I don't care who you are. Just because it's a new way for people to count music or receive it. That whole who went number one, who sold more than who is out. The conversation with the big three. Now, to me, we're getting away from that whole numbers and statistics bullshit that everyone keeps bringing up in this battle. Like, oh, it doesn't matter if Drake replies. Look at all his number ones. Oh, it doesn't matter if they need him. Kendrick went on tour and sold this much, and who gives a fuck? Yeah, Cole sold 400,000 first week. That was the most that year. Who gives a fuck? It now Becomes about the music.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And it becomes about new ways to change the music industry for real. Not just who has the best music. Now we're getting into Prince territory. Now you're really a legend. Now you're really changing how artists behind you will be able to benefit off the risk that you take at that point. Who gives a fuck out of the big three, Who's. Who's number one, two, or three? That takes away everything. So even though it's not the safest bet, I think it's the safest for the gossipy hip hop that's been going on this year. It's done now, but it's only two.

[Damaris]

It's not big three.

[Rory]

Fair.

[Damaris]

Yeah, just.

[Rory]

I would say I was. So, did y'all look at any comments over the weekend? I was too scared after that. That episode.

[Damaris]

Why? Why are you scared?

[Rory]

I don't know. I was painting pumpkin.

[Damaris]

You scared of comments?

[Rory]

No, I couldn't sleep. I actually got the best two nights of sleep I've gotten probably this year, this past weekend.

[Damaris]

Don't be scared of them comments, man. Jumping.

[Rory]

I've ever been. Comments. I laugh at them at this point, but I. How did people receive our. Our debate?

[Damaris]

You asking me? I don't know.

[Rory]

I'm asking the room.

[Damaris]

I don't. I don't. I definitely don't. I'm not in comments like that.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Damaris]

No, I look for you to tell me, like, what they saying in them streets and Reddit. Reddit. When the last time he was on Reddit?

[Rory]

It's been a really long time. I used to be heavy in the streets, but I have not opened that app months.

[Damaris]

A few people, like, stopped me, like, you know, in the streets and was talking about the. The whole back and forth that, you know, it was cool. It was interesting to hear people's perspectives on it. It's always fun when people are talking about a lot of people talking about the same thing, but it's also cool to hear people's perspectives and their point of view on. It's only fun, man. I have fun. I have fun with those type of conversations. Whenever you ask somebody, pick a side. You can start stuttering and yell about it. Yeah, pick a side and yell about it.

[Rory]

I don't have a song over there. All right, where's the side for the people that don't have a side?

[Damaris]

Where's the side for people that don't?

[Rory]

Yeah. Like, what part of the school dance is that in?

[Damaris]

I mean, you probably in the rafters.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Damaris]

Bleachers.

[Rory]

That's Cool. Yeah, that's where Taylor Swift started.

[Damaris]

Yes. Sitting the bleachers, man.

[Rory]

You gotta get wear T shirts.

[Damaris]

You gotta make a lot of noise in the bleachers.

[Rory]

Those are the cheap seats.

[Damaris]

Oh, yeah. You gotta make. Let people know you're in the building.

[Rory]

I think those are the most important people for sure. I'm a returning customer for all the artists here.

[Damaris]

Yeah, I don't.

[Rory]

I don't care what happens. Russ was in. In the Twitter streets over the weekend as well.

[Damaris]

Shout out to Russ, man. Loves from Russ. Russ is one of those guys that he has. He. He's somebody to talk to about all this DSP shit because he's been doing. He's been playing a different game for a long time as well. He's been playing an independent game, doing a lot of the lifting himself with his label and things like that. So, yeah, I saw him in the streets. Well, in the tweets, talking to people back and forth. That's the streets. That's the social media streets.

[Rory]

Julian, you want to read the tweet that. I feel like this was the conclusion of the whole back and forth with what was going on.

[Julian]

Yeah, it was a back and forth Russ was having with a journalist. And the tweet, her last tweet before his response that went viral was, russ is tweeting at me like he's talented. I have to laugh. What journalist is rushing to interview Russ?

[Damaris]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Slow down. First of all, who is this that's saying this?

[Rory]

It was just a random. A person on Twitter that.

[Damaris]

All right, see, that's my thing.

[Julian]

She's a journalist. I don't want to discredit her profession.

[Damaris]

She's a proper discrediting profession.

[Julian]

Yeah, well, no, I know. I mean, I'm not discrediting arena, but she is a actual. She's not a random person on Twitter.

[Damaris]

Let me, Let me correct her. Russ is. He is talent. He is talented. So she's saying Russ is tweeting at me like he's talented. What does that mean? Russ isn't talented. That can't be what she's alluding to.

[Julian]

That's what she said.

[Rory]

That is what she's.

[Damaris]

That is absolutely crazy. Russ is talented. You could say you don't like Russ. You don't like his music. That's your opinion. But you can't say Russ isn't talented. Russ is definitely a talented artist.

[Rory]

Well, she had to laugh.

[Julian]

Yeah. So Russ just ethered her with. He replied and said, you are a journalist. Your career does not exist without artists. Or athletes or whoever it is. You journal about my life and all artists and career exists without y'all. Y'all get too bold on here and forget what role you actually even play in the grand scheme of things. Your job is to stand on the sideline and wait for other people to do shit in order for you to even have a job. Relax.

[Damaris]

Mm.

[Julian]

Mm.

[Damaris]

I'm saying, Russ, and this was.

[Rory]

I don't. I don't know if you were with us at Manny's birthday at that time, and we were having a conversation that a lot of streamers, media people, not. It's not a new thing. It's been going on for a long time. Start to feel like they're above the artist or bigger than the artist or bigger than the genre or bigger than anything we talk about. And that's where I think the decline starts to happen once you feel like you're bigger than what you discussed, because Russ nailed it. And I don't take offense to anything that he said. If you take offense to what Russ said, you're part of the problem. You do think you're bigger than the genre you talk about, which is. Which is a weird, narcissistic thing. But he's correct. We don't move unless they do something.

[Damaris]

If you took offense to what Russ said, you're who he's talking.

[Julian]

Oh, she had an awful reply. Sorry, I'm just backlogging the information.

[Rory]

Jesus, I forgot my tweets.

[Julian]

She said, russ, this is an incredible. This is an incorrect statement. Babe, I could fart out a think piece tomorrow and it would make this entire app shake. No music you make will ever have that impact. Let's not lie on me like that. Lmfao.

[Rory]

And I'm also not saying that there aren't streamers, podcasters, radio hosts, whatever, in media that can just, off the cuff, entertain people and talk about shit that has nothing to do with music and still be okay.

[Damaris]

Mm.

[Rory]

But let's not all pretend, like within hip hop media, music, media, this culture as a whole, that our biggest moments and biggest discussions don't come off. What the artists are doing and the music that's coming out. Those are our most important conversations. Those are. Those are conversations that get the most clicks. That's what matters the most. And I'm not saying media needs to bow down to artists and look at them like gods or they can do whatever the fuck they want. It is a two way street. Artists also need media people to push their music, but to shit on artists and, like, pretend like they're not. A huge reason on why we even exist is insane to me. I get Russ's frustration here. We really exist based off what they do. We are a huge part of promoting what they do and keeping that momentum. But not. This is because we all love music. At least I can speak for me. I'm sorry. I got into this because I love music, and I think that's the root of some of the greatest media people and greatest journalists from inception. They got into this because they loved hip hop.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

So I. I see what he's saying.

[Damaris]

I think the problem is when you talk about, you know, this day and age now with so many platforms and people, you know, having cameras and mics in their faces, people start to feel like they're something that they're not. People start to feel like they're on the same level as these artists. They're as important as these artists are. And I think that's, you know, what. What Russ was speaking to here is that, you know, you're here to talk about what it is that the creators are creating and putting out and things like that. First and foremost, we're all consumers.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

Even if you're a creative, you consume, you know, other art, you consume, you know, something that somebody else creates and puts out. So start there. We're all consumers. I just think that, you know, Russ is speaking to more of what this. What this young lady was saying. As far as, you know, she could make the app shake if she creates a think piece, and Russ's music could never do that. Like, I think she's just a little out of touch with that remark right there. But, you know, I like her confidence.

[Rory]

And misguided in what Russ is saying. Like, let's not even just put music. Like, Stephen A. Smith is bigger than certain athletes. He's more famous, he's richer, has more power, more recognizable than a lot of athletes. But is Stephen A. Smith bigger than the NBA and the NFL?

[Damaris]

No.

[Rory]

And athletics as a whole?

[Damaris]

No.

[Rory]

Absolutely not. And I think that's what Russ was really trying to get out, get at initially. Like, he's not saying journalists exist because Russ makes music.

[Damaris]

Right.

[Rory]

Because of the shit that we all love, which starts with the artist is why you guys have a job.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And why you guys talk about shit and not.

[Damaris]

And not saying that. You know, I don't believe that Russ was trying to allude to her being a journalist is not an important role. That's what he was alluding to. I think he was more so saying, like, yo, I think that you know, there are lines here, there are levels here. Um, and again, you should kind of like stay in your lane. But when you start saying things like, Russ isn't talented, I mean, that's your opinion. And she's entitled to that like everybody else is. But I think in this conversation, in this back and forth, that was. That was a shot. You know what I mean? That she was trying to demean Russ.

[Rory]

You're focused on that response. I'm focused on Russ. This is an incorrect statement, babe. First of all, don't call me babe. We're not babes. I could fart out a think piece tomorrow and it would make this entire app shake. Elon put out robots, and it didn't really even shake like that.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And it's his app.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

No music you make will ever have that impact. Let's not lie on me like that. I'm not here to. I don't know much about this young lady. She could be extremely important and amazing journalist. I'm not here to discredit her whatsoever. Has your work ever sold out Radio City two nights in a row?

[Damaris]

I mean, you got to. You got to check. She may have had a think piece that moves some tickets at Radio City. You don't know.

[Mal]

I mean, but I feel like that's not an equal comparison because journalists don't sell out.

[Damaris]

She compared it. She said she can make a think piece that'll make this whole app shake. Your music could never do that. She made the comparison.

[Mal]

She's saying that on a. On a platform where media is important and she's also in media. I could do. I could make a bigger media impact in media than you can.

[Rory]

Fair. Okay, off that sentence. Yes, I don't care. But I'm just saying about the music that Russ has released mainly through Twitter. SoundCloud has gotten to a point where people will pay to sell out Radio City to see him. That's making shit shake. When you post something on Twitter, the response is selling out Radio City.

[Mal]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Rory]

And let's not act like Russ doesn't make this app, quote, unquote, shake. Once a month, Russ always has a take that either pisses people off or has people talking. Once a month, he makes this hip hop Twitter app shake non stop. So I. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe I have her up.

[Damaris]

Oh, well.

[Mal]

And.

[Julian]

And we can also. Not to be the. The guy that falls for metrics, but just comparatively, she's got 43 and a half thousand followers to Russ's 2 million.

[Rory]

I mean, people with 10 followers. Make the app shake with crazy takes.

[Damaris]

You never shook that before, Julian.

[Julian]

I've shaken the app.

[Damaris]

Something wrong with the.

[Julian]

Chuck the shit out this app probably more than her biggest piece of work.

[Rory]

And I'm not, you know, his captions on. Never mind.

[Julian]

Invisible lens.

[Rory]

Those invisible lens captions shake the Instagram app.

[Mal]

Um, what was his original point that she was counteracting? Like, what was his.

[Julian]

This was. This is the initial tweet that sparked the entire. It was basically him kind of reiterating what the structure of a journalist's integrity should be in.

[Damaris]

In hip hop media, journalists won interviews with artists and things like that. But he basically broke down a reason why some journalists don't get interviews. He said, number one, most journalists don't have their own platform, so that some. So that somewhat forces the artist to fund and produce the interview themselves. He said he's done it because he sees the value in it, but he understands if an artist doesn't want to pay for their own interview. Number two, naturally, as artists, we have shit to say and we want what we have to say to reach the most amount of people. So going to where the majority of people's eyes are streamers, et cetera, is attractive. Number three, nobody cares about reading interviews on magazine outlets anymore. Video interviews are king. And video interviews cost money. See point number one. And number four, he said, really the only solution is journalists, just like everyone else, have to build up their brand fan base and name themselves so that they can attract artists to their platform. Or artists just invest money in producing their own interviews with respect to journalists and putting it on their own platform, which Russ has done with B dot a few times.

[Rory]

I don't see anything wrong that he said no in that whatsoever. And what did she just take? No one's trying to go to Russ for interviews. I don't understand how she read all that and had that reply.

[Mal]

Okay, so she said paying someone to interview you isn't journalism, it's marketing. You want journalists to function as your pr, hire a better publicist. Maybe. So I get. She should. She should have worded that better. But I understood where she's coming from with that. With that response. Paying somebody to interview you isn't journalism. Because journalism is supposed to be. Objection like, oh, then she doesn't know about journal objective. Yep. But traditionally, real journalism is supposed to be objective. If you pay me for an interview, then I'm not being objective because there are certain things that I'm going to. You can pay me not to ask you. So if you're paying for your own interview. That's kind of like pr.

[Rory]

I mean, all interviews are pr.

[Damaris]

Politicians do that all the time.

[Julian]

I was going to say that's the.

[Rory]

Thing that's been the source xxl. Like there's the journalistic version of payola exists for sure. Favor for a favor. Yo, if you put this artist on the COVID the source, I'll guarantee you three interviews with these artists that are also on our label. Like, it's been a bartering system in journalism, not just hip hop, period, forever.

[Mal]

Yes, but you can't get mad at her for saying, hey, this is. When I go to journalism school. This is what they teach you. Journalism, real journalism is to be objective. That's interesting.

[Rory]

If somebody pays for an interview, let's say a label pays a platform to have their artist on there. What makes it not objective? Well, because there's been plenty of times when artists have come on the platforms for free and then PR will hand them a list of shit they can't talk about. Why does a money exchange have to matter in that? Because if everything is, is nothing's off limits. But they pay for the interview and I can ask whatever the fuck I want. Why is that not journalism?

[Mal]

Because, for example, with the Tyla interview, let's say bring up the Tyler interview, when they asked her about being black, being colored, whatever, right? Being that they didn't. They, I think it was the Breakfast Club, being that they didn't pay the Breakfast Club for that interview. That footage still comes out of her just not answering the question, her shaking her head, her looking back at her PR for help. Because the Breakfast Club owns that footage because they were not paid for that footage. Now, for example, if they were paid for that interview and that interview was funded, then that they, the people who pay have complete, complete control. Like they have control of what comes out, how it's released or what gets cut out. All of that. They don't. You don't have that if you don't pay for the interview.

[Rory]

There was plenty of labels that paid for the mics in the Source for album reviews, and the Source still own their content. I think everyone, I think she's very confused on what actually happens in journalism.

[Mal]

That's. It happens. But it doesn't mean, it doesn't mean that everybody does that. And it doesn't mean that that's the way it's supposed to happen. It's like saying there's crooked cops. Yes, there are crooked cops, but it's not supposed to be like that with.

[Rory]

The, with The Breakfast. There's kind of like the unwritten, untalked about rule that if we bring in. What is Tyler Atlantic, the creator?

[Mal]

Not sure.

[Rory]

No, Tyler.

[Damaris]

Oh, Tyler.

[Rory]

Tyler, Tyler, the creator.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Mal]

He took the hard er off.

[Julian]

He's with the Epic.

[Rory]

Okay. There's an unwritten rule with Epic being under Sony that they will continue to bring their artists to the Breakfast Club and vice versa. Not trying to belittle the Breakfast Club, but they all. They have relationships with every single label. Some of them have even worked for labels while they were on the Breakfast Club. There's an unwritten rule. Don't ask these questions. And we'll continue to bring our artists in for safer interviews. Again, not discrediting the Breakfast Club because Charlemagne did a great job his whole career of asking the questions we really wanted to hear. But let's say any radio station. There's no currency exchange with that. That's just a relationship moving forward. Don't go against the rules that our PR at our label told you, and we'll continue to bring artists to you. There's no currency exchange there.

[Mal]

Okay. There is a current. You just name the currency. The relationship is currency. There's not money, but the relationship is currency. You're giving something for getting some and getting something. But that does not make it objective journalism. That's. I think that's why you missed it.

[Rory]

So find me the objective journal.

[Mal]

There's plenty of it.

[Rory]

That's what I'm trying to do.

[Mal]

Like, just maybe not always in the hip hop space, but journalism as a whole. We're not only talking about journalism in music. Like journalism as a whole is supposed to be objective. Yes. Like I said, there are crooked cops and there are people who skate around the rules to get, you know, obviously to do what you have to do to get shit done. There's been questions we haven't asked that we should have, but it doesn't mean that that's always the right thing to do and that it was made to be like that. Journalism was not created to be like that. And I think that that was her point where it's like, if you're paying for an interview, that's not journalism.

[Rory]

But okay to that conversation. There's also been times we've gotten lists and said no to interviews because we don't want to interview that person if we can't talk about that.

[Mal]

Yes. Thank you for your integrity.

[Rory]

Cool. But there's also been times where they won't give us a list and we can just say whatever the fuck we want. So I don't really see. What do you mean? Where's.

[Mal]

You can say whatever you want because you aren't being paid for the interview. Are you seeing what I'm saying? No one's paying you.

[Rory]

You said currency was taken out. It's relationships.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Mal]

I'm confused about what you're confused about, so maybe I'm missing it. I'm confused about how you don't understand her point, even if you don't agree with it. I'm confused on how you don't understand her point. Just off the simple of if you are paying for an interview that is not an objective interview, period. You have creative control of the interview.

[Julian]

That is also not always the case.

[Rory]

Name one interview that there was not some form of relationship or actual currency exchanged, whether it be the conglomerate that the interviewer is working for, production crew, everything. Like, what is she talking about? It's a. It's a. It's a remedial point.

[Julian]

And that's not true because the same way in which artists pay to get on Instagram pages to have their music promoted, they'll pay to sit down on camera just to be seen. Say, like, with a Vlad. Like, I always wanted to get a Vlad interview. Vlad's like, all right, cut me the check for X amount of money bet. Here's that money. You don't just. You're paid to get on the platform. You don't own the content. You just wanted to be seen in front of this other guy.

[Mal]

No, but see, that's different. That's me paying the vads, like, whatever his price is to get on his platform. That's not me paying the engineer. Paying for the engineer and paying for the studio time, which is what Russ is referring to. Paying for the engineer, paying for the studio time, paying for it to be edited. That's what he's referring to at that point. Russ owns the content. The content creator or the journalist does not own the content.

[Rory]

So, all right, so where do we draw the line? Let's say there is no relationship or currency exchange happening whatsoever. And an artist comes here and says there's one particular thing they don't want to talk about, but everything else is on the table. We have an incredible two hour interview. We get to so much stuff, but because we're respectful people, we just leave that one topic over here. Is that now a compromised interview?

[Mal]

No, it's not a compromised interview. And that. It's not a compromised interview. Unless that there's something. There's a morality clause in that. Are you asking because they have a rape case. Oh, you're not asking. They have a rape case open and you're not asking them about that. Or they're accused of beating a woman and you don't want to ask them about that. That's different. But if you. If they don't want to talk about their relationship, then that's something.

[Rory]

I was more getting at that than raped for beating women.

[Mal]

That's what I'm saying. As far as an interview being comprom, if that's their personal business, that isn't owed to the public, that's different. But some answers that are owed to the public that you're not going to ask, even though the public is expecting you to ask those questions again, that's something different. I just. Me personally, I don't agree with the way that she came at Russ, but her response to that. I understand her point. That's all I was saying. I understand her point in saying, if you are creating an interview, then it's not journalism. That's not an objective interview. That's all I'm saying.

[Rory]

And I think that's a very remedial point.

[Damaris]

I don't think that's the scope of just because, you know, just because somebody's paying for the interview, I. E. You know, the equipment, editing, things like that. I don't think that that doesn't mean that it can't be objective.

[Mal]

It can be.

[Damaris]

I mean, if you go in and say, nah, don't ask me about this, then it's like, okay. I mean, some journalists just won't do it. They'll be like, all right, well, if we can't talk about that, me sitting here talking to you is like, people are gonna be. If an artist has something major going on and they're choosing not to talk about it publicly, journalists probably wouldn't take the interview. Cause it's like, well, if we can't talk about the thing and what's happening right now, what's the point of us sitting here talking about whatever else you got going on? Like that would just. The journalist now looks like he or she didn't do a good job. Because it's like you didn't ask about obviously what everyone is gonna run to.

[Rory]

The interview to hear about and off the record conversation? Because I accused Elliot Wilson of doing that with his Drake interview with B dot because that ended up on OVO's YouTube page. It was directed by Theo, Drake's man. So I said to him, I was like, he definitely did the questions. He definitely edited out some Shit. He said no. Drake is just in the business of owning his content like a smart artist should. Similar to what Russ is saying. He wanted to shoot it and own the content. Didn't cut one fucking question out of that shit. Didn't say there's nothing we can't talk about. It was a objective interview.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Didn't cut anything out. So to me, where's the problem, right? If Drake chopped down a whole bunch of shit that Elliot and B Dot asked at that point. Yeah, but now we're getting into spooky waters of artists are owning the content. The journalists can't ask certain things. If they ask, the artist is going.

[Damaris]

To cut it out and they're manipulating the content. Exactly.

[Mal]

You bring that up, but he was interviewing with Elliot. And Elliot, who is respected in the journalistic space, especially when it comes to hip hop journalists. Yeah, but we had a whole episode. Well, not a whole episode, but we had an episode where we came on here talking about when he also owned the content with that white girl that went viral and that interview is now missing from the Internet. Do we remember that? We had that conversation?

[Rory]

No. What white girl?

[Julian]

What white girl?

[Mal]

Damn. Bobby, remember that how we all talked about how that interview is now missing from the interview? Because he took it down.

[Rory]

But he didn't. That wasn't on Drake's Vivo page. That was on her.

[Julian]

Yeah, that was unheard thing.

[Rory]

I still don't know what happened with that.

[Damaris]

Wasn't it a music thing? Wasn't like a song play? Was it a Tiger song or something?

[Rory]

I think that was like the rumor, but I don't.

[Julian]

I think that.

[Rory]

I can't see Universal doing that.

[Julian]

I think that was the public cover.

[Rory]

That probably boosted Tiger's streams.

[Damaris]

I mean, he may. He may have. You know, it may have been the thing where he told them that it was only. The interview was only allowed to be up for a certain amount of time.

[Julian]

I was gonna say it could have also just been over. Yeah. A clause on. Because it exists on YouTube, just not on her page.

[Rory]

And I'm saying the difference is this was on Bobby's page originally. She paid for it. The.

[Julian]

Well, they shot. Remember they shot this at Drake's house. Yeah, this is on his home.

[Rory]

No, I know it's at his house, but like when he did the Caleb interview, that's owned by Barstool. Like, even though it's at Drake's house, it's still owned by Barstool. I'm saying the difference with the rap radar one was it's on Drake's YouTube page, shot by his director and edited by his director. And he didn't cut anything out. But Drake was seeing the change as other artists were and wanted to own his own content. If I'm doing an interview and I'm this big, I'm owning that fucking interview. Crazy for sure. But there was nothing that they weren't allowed to talk about that could be different. Now I'm just talking about that example. But we've also discussed Russ's fourth point. It's not the journalist's fault. No one cares about journalism anymore. Yeah, artists are running. And this is not a shot at Kai or any of the streamers. All the artists are going there for promo because the fans aren't looking for deep dives. Some of us are, but it's a very minuscule part of the fan base. Everyone want to see them dance in Kai's basement. So she's misguided in her. Her anger. Her anger should be that fans don't care about journalism anymore. It's not the artist's fault. If an artist is trying to sell music, they're supposed to care about journalistic integrity or they're supposed to care about promoting their album. Fans don't want this in depth, sit down, print interview with Elliot Wilson right now. They want to go. They want to see their favorite artist dance with Kai. Yeah, go do a drew ski sketch.

[Julian]

Literally offset having a sleepover at Kai's. Did more for his career than like doing an interview run.

[Rory]

And I think it's great. I think that content is amazing. It humanizes the artist. I think it's really cool. I've always asked for balance. I would like that, plus a really in depth musical interview. But if I'm an artist and only have so much time and money to go promote my album, I'm going to go after the thing that gets the most eyes and people care the most about. And it's not journalism. So she's not mad at Russ. She's mad at the people that care about her, her occupation. Nobody gives a fuck about that. And that's really what Russ is saying in all four of these points. That's why her response is misguided.

[Damaris]

I think. Another thing that people don't talk about enough when they talk about artists or celebrities doing interviews with journalists. I think that it's just smarter for sometimes these journalists, you know, to have a certain type of relationship with the person that they're talking with. Like, I think it's awkward to just sit in front of somebody and you Don't. This is your first time meeting them. Like you know nothing about this person. And then you expect to have an in depth conversation on camera, on Mike. It's like, why would the artists give you that? They don't even really have a rapport with you yet.

[Rory]

You think. You think Gayle and R. Kelly should have kicked it for like a week?

[Damaris]

I mean, I don't. I know where she was going there to get it. She got it. That was a home run. Did she get it? Oh, that was a home run for her. You know what I'm saying? That was a. She got what she wanted.

[Julian]

Killing me.

[Rory]

That was some journalism.

[Damaris]

Yeah. Like I think anybody just in there.

[Mal]

Robert.

[Damaris]

Any. Anybody could have got.

[Rory]

Robbie calm the down.

[Damaris]

Yeah. Like anybody could have got that type of response from. He was just under a different type of pressure at that time. You could put anybody. Bobby aloft would have got that response.

[Rory]

Out of that would be crazy.

[Damaris]

That was just going to happen.

[Rory]

She been like, can you pay my bills then?

[Damaris]

Yeah, like it would. It was just that time. But I do think that sometimes artists shy away from doing these interviews because it's. It's like they really don't know the person. It's like, what we really gonna sit here? Like I'm not gonna open up to this person like that. I don't know them well.

[Rory]

Some. I feel like some fans, myself included don't always want. That interview is great. Don't get me wrong. Back to Elliott and Drake. They had a relationship at that time and I think they had a great in depth interview. Most of my questions were answered. Thought that was cool because they had a relationship. He opened up sometimes. I want the cold interview.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Rory]

There's no relationship. Here is the question. I do not care about your feelings. I'm not saying all the way. Old Charlemagne where he would say shit to like really just be mean and belittle someone, which is an art in itself. Not discrediting it. I laugh too. But someone that's just going to straight up some Chris Wallace shit. This is my question. I'm not going to let you get off this question with your answer. I'm not going to give in. We're not friends. I don't care about us. After this, I think that type of respectful interview is still needed too.

[Damaris]

I mean if you're. If, if you're good at what you're doing, you know how to ask the question without asking it as well too.

[Rory]

I mean that's where Gail got kills.

[Damaris]

Well, I mean exactly. You just have to know what you're doing. But I can understand how some artists shy away from it because it's, you know, a lot of people just want to ask you questions just for clicks and shit like that and try to get some shit to go viral. But it's like, I don't really know you like that. So why would I sit here and have this intimate in depth conversation with.

[Rory]

And that. And that is where the press run kind of everything up. And that's just a result of the Internet and needing so much content. Like artists will stop and go to 22 different outlets when they're in New York, another 22 in LA. They talk to everyone. So you never even really get a moment to have an in depth interview or even one of those one on one cold interviews. They're just on to the next. Yeah, they're answering the same question. Bigger artists. Back in the day, you went to one magazine, one video, one TRL or 106 and you'd get, you'd get your one magazine, six pages. Right? And that would be the in depth one. Yeah, you go to 106 and park, get some laughs off, have fun and move on. Now it's just a bunch of quick hit. Yeah, we have 15 minutes with you and then we have another. Same interview. Ten other people know, two blocks down the way.

[Mal]

The big artists are still doing that though. Like I. And if you are a big enough artist, you can make people read. I sat there and read a whole Beyonce. Beyonce just did an interview. I can't remember, I don't know who it was with, but she did a whole interview where she talked about her album, she talked about where she is in her 40s right now. She talked about the kids, she talked about her work. The crazy is she did it over email because she's Beyonce and I'm busy and I'm not gonna sit down with you. But people read it. It was going viral on Tick Tock. And I mean not Tick Tock, Twitter. And I feel like if you have the talent in the pull, you can make people do that.

[Rory]

Beyonce is the example.

[Julian]

Gq. It was an email.

[Mal]

Gq, yeah.

[Julian]

This is a hilarious title, an email interview with gq.

[Mal]

But I feel like Drake could do that as well. I think that because of what Drake's personality is, he might not want to.

[Rory]

He would get killed for that. Beyonce is different in that regard. Like there's not so much controversy just circling around her. If Drake did a GQ email, well.

[Mal]

Not the email, but just a GQ interview, period. Something that you have to read. You think he would get smoked for doing a paper interview? I don't think so.

[Rory]

Everyone would accuse him of having someone else type it and, like, it depends on.

[Damaris]

It'd be safe when and how it comes out.

[Rory]

Can't catch him in the middle of a conversation like, well, I feel like.

[Mal]

Right now, I feel like the beef is a weird time. We're in a very weird time right now. But outside of the beef, before the beef, I feel like he could have done that.

[Rory]

I feel like Benner said, when you guys are in Toronto this week, Maul should hit Drake to see if he'd do an interview.

[Mal]

That's it.

[Rory]

Drake is not doing an interview.

[Julian]

Well, Maul mentioned earlier, and I, I think this is a. A good segue. The whole thing with journalists becoming friends with the artists and then creating relationships and having, you know, not only does that relationship end with them being friends with the artist, but it also can go into the artist making money from the journalists making money from these artists, whether they, you know, are hosting something at a festival that they're hosting or, you know, hosting this pop up thing or conducting interviews on behalf of this artist because I'm friends with them and I'm speaking more directly to Wayno. He had a clip going around about him kind of exposing some information that he, you know, experience he had at Dreamville Festival where he was basically saying Dreamville artists were saying, Kendrick ain't even like that. He's overrated in bashing Kendrick, but he's, you know, sharing thoughts and conversations with people that are involved with the festival that he was doing an activation with and just kind of exposing stuff that wasn't, you know, meant or supposed to be said on a platform. Allegedly, by the way, this is also.

[Damaris]

Wayne said that people at Dreamville was telling Cole that Kendrick ain't all that.

[Julian]

Yeah, I'll play the clip.

[Damaris]

I didn't even way know to say that. Of course we know that. That's just cruel.

[E]

But y'all Dreamville niggas, man. Y'all gas cold up. Because, listen, I was having sideline conversations with a lot of the homies, and a lot of my Dreamville homies was basically saying that Kendrick was, you know, that he's overrated and that what has he done? And I'm like, yo, are y'all serious? So all this camaraderie that y'all made it seem like with the TDE and Dreamville and how they was locked in and this, that. And third, this is all fake.

[Mal]

I have so many things to say about that. And it's not even in defense to Cole.

[Rory]

It's objective journalism.

[Mal]

No, that's not objective journalism because you not chilling with my Dreamville homies and saying that it's subjective journalism. That's number one thing.

[Rory]

It was.

[Mal]

Okay, number two, who do you. When you're saying that and you have a. You're on a platform and you know everything that's going on. When you say Dreamville homies, what do you mean by that? Are you talking about Ari Lennox? Are you talking about Julian? Who the are you talking about when you say Dreamville homie?

[Julian]

And when that name is said, most people automatically think that is cold. So it just kind of sounds like you're putting words in Cole's mouth. You're not. If you're going to say something like this, which I don't agree with ever, but if you're going to and you feel bold enough to say something like this, then be specific. Don't throw the whole crew or like the whole operation under the bus. Don't allude to half of the truth.

[Damaris]

So just throw one person.

[Julian]

Well, I'm just saying if you. If you feel like you have, you're emboldened enough to say something like this, which you should never say. I don't think anything like this should say. I have relationships with artists.

[Damaris]

Why not?

[Julian]

A lot of the conversations we have, you say stuff that you've spoken about with Drake that would never touch this microphone.

[Damaris]

That's a fact.

[Julian]

And that's. That's how I feel about relationships that I have with artists as well. It's like some things are meant to be personal to the people that you have as friends. Not everything is for the journalist moment, for the click.

[Damaris]

Yeah, but he didn't make it personal. He didn't put no names on it. But that said he was at Dreamville, he was having conversations.

[Rory]

To me, that's.

[Mal]

That's where it is worse not naming.

[Rory]

A name where I think it's unfair because we know Wayno has done stuff with Amazon for Dreamville Fest, has done interviews for years, and there's that artist village and people just talk shit as friends. And especially at that heightened time. Seven Minute Drill had just came out just off Kendrick saying what Kendrick said. Of course, people be hyped up and having passionate rap arguments. The way we have them are off mic. The conversation sometimes have not even made it over here. If I'm having a conversation with my quote unquote friend during a heightened time, six months later, you're getting on the mic and say, we all discredited Kendrick. You guys were never friends with tde. That was some weird fake shit that y'all had. That's odd to me.

[Damaris]

He's questioning if that was if that relationship.

[Mal]

No, he's saying straight that. Didn't he just say straight?

[Damaris]

No, he's. He's questioning. He was like, yo, so that was fake. Like, y'all don't.

[Julian]

He's saying the relation. He's saying the public relationship of the Dreamville TDE being good together was fake based on what he's saying. He was told at Dreamville Fest by people in Dreamville.

[Damaris]

Okay, but he's not. Again, you. You saying that it would have been better to name names? I'm saying there's no way that would have been better than names.

[Julian]

My point is, I don't think this should be said ever. Yeah, I don't think this should be said ever. But instead of if you feel that confident to say something that you know was never supposed to be repeated in public, then don't throw it on the whole operation. Don't throw the whole label.

[Damaris]

So name the one person.

[Julian]

Yeah. If you feel like you can confidently say this, then name the person you're talking about.

[Damaris]

It's crazy.

[Rory]

If there's. If there's 25 people in Dreamville, let's say 10 of them. I'm not even saying artists. 10 that are, like, notable within the music industry that people actually know their names. And you say the Dreamville homies, and you were talking to two people in the corner that were drunk at Dreamville fest and was like, man, fuck Kendrick Cole riding like, seven minute drill came out. Fuck Kendrick. Yeah, but why are you getting on a mic six months later saying, yo, dream. Dreamville was saying that Kendrick never even did shit.

[Damaris]

But why. But why are you going straight to some two random dream you think he was sitting with?

[Rory]

It was a convention of just the whole Dreamville set right there.

[Damaris]

I think Wayne, though, knows the same people you know at Dreamville for sure and has a relationship with the same people you do at Dreamville.

[Rory]

I agree.

[Damaris]

So I think that's exactly who he's talking about. I don't think he's talking about some random Dreamville fest goer that was just standing in the corner talking about Kendrick and tde. But he's not gonna name the names. Like, I think naming the names is crazy. But he's saying that he was there. He was having a conversation with the Dreamville crew, and now he's saying yo, y'all gassed him. Y'all was saying, Kendrick ain't all of that. He's overrated. Which is. I could definitely. That's what Cruz do in the battle. Yo, homie, yo, he trash. We'll go at that N. That's what.

[Rory]

The real crew will give you. The realistic of what's going on. Because even though I like 7 minute drill, calling K Dot shit and doing that Jay Z scheme, like, oh, your second one was mid this and that, I think that was bad information to give to your friend. If that's what Wayne was saying. Here to gas up to say Kendrick.

[Damaris]

Never did shit, I'm not even going.

[Rory]

That's like when the OVO team gassed up Drake to say that Kendrick was molested when he clearly didn't say that in the song.

[Damaris]

I'm not even going that route. What you're saying. I'm speaking more to you saying that you making it. You alluding it to it. Like, Wayne O was just talking to some random person at Dreamville. That's not even connected to Cole in any way.

[Rory]

No, I think anyone in the Dreamville crew that I'm talking about is connected.

[Damaris]

Okay, so I'm not talking about a.

[Mal]

Family, but Dreamville is huge. But the thing is, Dreamville is huge.

[Rory]

It's a big crew.

[Mal]

It's a big crew. So it's like when you say Dreamville, people automatically assume Cole, he knew that when he said this. Or if he was thinking at all that people would associate that with, like, Cole and, like, his closest homies when it could have been the. That they, like, signed and, like, shelved. Like, it could have been anybody. You're not being specific enough. So I think what Julian was saying is either don't say this, because this is just bad.

[Julian]

I think the best option was never to say this.

[Mal]

You don't repeat things.

[Damaris]

Why not?

[Julian]

Because, come on, man. We. We've said stuff.

[Damaris]

What is wrong with saying, yo, yo, yo, your crew gassed you and. And. And downplayed Kendrick. And I was looking at y'all like, yo, y'all serious? Like, what are y'all talking about?

[Julian]

Put it this way, because here's the other thing, too.

[Rory]

I'm saying they was backstage saying Kendrick had not done anything thing, right?

[Damaris]

And he's saying like, he. And he said like, yo, what are y'all talking about? Why would y'all say that?

[Rory]

Clearly, they didn't gas Cole because he went on stage and said the complete opposite. Kendrick, you're the fucking greatest. I bow out. So they didn't gas him at all. They're talking about private conversations backstage, right? Nobody gassed Cole. Cole did the opposite. If somebody gassed him.

[Damaris]

Right. But what I'm saying is, if they.

[Rory]

Gassed him, he would have went on stage and said, fuck Kendrick Lamar.

[Damaris]

We know that Wayno has that access, which means anybody that's close to Cole could have said that. And Wayne O, not naming no names to me, says, I'm not going to put homie's name out there like that. This ain't no rando that he's talking about. This is somebody directly affiliated in close proximity to the artist that we're talking.

[Julian]

You don't see the problem with someone that would. Sure would call Wayno, not only, you know, a colleague, but a friend telling him that information in confidence and then for him to turn around and say it into a microphone and project it onto a platform.

[Damaris]

Yeah, cool.

[Mal]

And now everybody's sitting around.

[Damaris]

But the important part about that is.

[Julian]

I'm not saying what way. No, saying is a lie.

[Damaris]

I'm not saying you say, but I.

[Julian]

Don'T think it should ever have been repeated.

[Damaris]

I'm not saying. You're saying that. And cool you that you're entitled to that. What I'm saying is you then said or say a name, and I'm like, that's absolutely crazy when you did that.

[Julian]

If someone says, oh, yeah, exactly. Like, if I have. If we have beef with someone in podcasting individual. Irrespective of everyone in the room. If I say, you know, it's. It's fuck so and so. And then someone hears that and says, the Rory and mall crew, really, they're capping. Because I saw Rory at the show with homeboy last week, but then I heard the crew like they were shitting on him. Then it's like you're speaking on behalf of a crew. Each of us have individual relationships with everybody in this media space in the game are. My relationship with an artist could be drastically different than your relationship with the artists, even though we both know them. So my point is don't speak. Don't group speak. Don't say something that represents everybody that could be involved with that. With the. With the Dreamville team.

[Rory]

Especially with a quit that big.

[Damaris]

Especially with the. But what did Wayno say that was so bad that you like. Yo, you shouldn't have repeated that.

[Mal]

We're in the heat.

[Damaris]

What the.

[Rory]

What are y'all.

[Damaris]

Whoa. And I'm. And I'm not yelling because I don't want nobody to think I'm mad at no artist. I'm not mad at none. Truth be told, I don't care about enough of this to be mad at anybody. I'm just trying to get y'all thought process on. How is what Wayne said an issue? Because that.

[Julian]

Let Dreamville speak about it. If Dreamville speak.

[Damaris]

Don't want to speak about nothing.

[Rory]

That's not true. They talk on Twitter.

[Julian]

The record out.

[Rory]

He replied to it.

[Julian]

He replied to it.

[Damaris]

What was Eve's reply?

[Rory]

Something clout Chasey. Something like that.

[Julian]

He said doing something about.

[Rory]

First of all, I don't think Wayne was clout chasing. And Wayne was the front of the show. Yeah. Thirsty for clicks. And I'm also with you. I don't care that much, but I think so.

[Mal]

He's a Waynel is an example. I think the conversation overall, we're never talking about a specific person, but overall it's just like, okay, they're like. He said there's first of all the reason why he said, don't name names. Like, you just used the new Rory and Mall example. You're putting other people in the mix when, like, J. Cole is the head of Dreamville. Right. We're all important on this podcast, but when it comes to this podcast and the crew, y'all are the figureheads for this. So anything that we do when it comes to y'all that anybody says, oh, the new Rory and Ma Clue crew reflects on y'all. So it might not even be a point of view that y'all agree with.

[Julian]

You might not even be aware of what's even happening.

[Rory]

There's been times Julian has posted stuff and the entire Internet said I sent him out to post that and we hadn't even spoken in days.

[Julian]

That's. That is a fact. I get like.

[Rory]

And I'm sitting there like, I never.

[Julian]

Even what the people like, damn, Rory Mall sent you on a dummy mission. I'm like, I don't even. Also, what I'm saying has nothing to do with our show. I'm just like, posting or tweeting something. They think everything I say, he's a fucking sub.

[Damaris]

Okay, so. All right. So, because we going into some whole other shit and I'm just trying to. My ADHD is kicking in. It's cool. So what I'm trying to ask you is what is the issue you had with what Way said exactly?

[Rory]

I. I will answer directly. And let me not say issue, because I honestly don't care. And again, my problem with it was the angle. As if they were bad. I thought those Were y'all friends? Because Cole already said on that record on 7 minute drill before the conversation backstage that his catalog wasn't all that and that he was overrated. We already knew that the Dreamville camp felt that way according to Cole. Don't come back here and say they're saying shady shit and they're bad friends. I thought TDE was your friends. Damn. Why are you even speaking that way now? You're making it seem like every business, dealing or conversation they've had with Punch, with everyone over there has been some fake situation. Because you happen to talk to. To two people backstage at a concert, you're erasing 15 years of friendship.

[Julian]

Yeah, I just.

[Damaris]

Okay, so I think. I think what I'm saying. I'm just. I'm just concerned that. Why y'all keep trying to make it seem like Wayne O Just heard this from some random dude at Dreamville. Vest.

[Julian]

We're not saying.

[Rory]

I don't think anyone in the never know is random, but, like, not directly. Not directly. Cole E. Or the higher ups in that regard that actually have a real relationship with TDE where you could say to them, yo, I thought TDE was y'all friends. Because I think EB right now today would say, yeah, TDE is still my.

[Mal]

Friends and tde and that's another thing, too.

[Rory]

And, no, I was not talking about them behind their back.

[Mal]

When it comes to this whole crew thing. Crews are all different, and they all feel different ways. We all feel differently about different people. I'm sure there's all people in TDE that feel differently about different Dreamville people. Like, it's not just like, it's weird. It's TDE and we're beefing with Dreamville. It's people who have their own interpersonal relationships. This person, this rapper might be cool with this singer, this. This. They're all individual people. So you can say, oh, yeah, the crew is going at each other or my Dreamville homies, but they might not share the same sentiments as other people in their crew about certain people. Like, it's just too many players involved for you to sit up here and say, oh, they're beefing with tde. They're being fake to tde. Who do you mean by tde? Do you mean Kendrick? Do you mean sza? Do you. Who do you mean by that?

[Rory]

And also, I forgot the engineer's name. Forgive me. And I'm not discrediting him. Remember when the entire thing happened when they were airing out us, a bunch of people that were talking after Cole Went on stage and said he was bowing out. And we all replied all the headlines based off that engineer's tweet, that engineers for Dreamville, when he was saying, fuck all these artists. We put y'all on, and now you talking shit about us. The pool is closed. All that shit.

[Mal]

Kid took a shit in the pool.

[Rory]

All. All of the headlines was, dreamville shits on industry and Dreamville says we can't work with y'all no more. It was one engineer that works with Dreamville. They was acting like even Cole said it. So do you see the point at all?

[Julian]

And I want you guys.

[Rory]

Yeah, we're taking this too far than it needs to be. That's fine. I really don't give a shout out to Wayne O. Shout out to Eat Cole.

[Damaris]

Wayne said was fine. I don't think it was anything wrong with what he said. I think wanting him to put a name to it or not say anything is crazy. Putting the name to that would have been wild.

[Julian]

But you can. But you can see why, though, to the examples that we know exactly what way. On behalf of nearly 50 people.

[Damaris]

Yeah, but I know, again, Wayne O. Was just saying that. That's what was said from the camp. He wasn't putting no names on it, but he just found it awkward because he was like, I thought those was y'all homies. Like, I thought y'all fucked with them. Like, and y'all back here, it sounds. The tune sounds a little different. And understandably, why. It's a moment. It's a battle happening. So, you know, that's part of the crew, what they're supposed to do. They're supposed to rile each other up and, you know, it's us or nobody like that type of thing.

[Rory]

And I'm not saying Wayno said anything disrespectful or super over the line, but it kind of goes back to your point of. Journalists should be friends with artists, and I do agree with that. To get a good interview. But in the art of. I'm sorry. The times of clicks and Gotcha moments, fans don't want to hear a good interview. They want to hear the gotcha. So it pays not to be friends with people.

[Damaris]

Oh, hold on, Wayne. I was calling me.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Damaris]

My good brother. Ain't nothing, man. First of all, you're on the air right now. We're recording. So I don't want you to. I don't want you to, you know, I mean, just jump out there and say some. You ain't supposed to say so.

[Rory]

And if you did we tell the Internet? You said it.

[Damaris]

So. So let me.

[Rory]

Hold on.

[E]

Let me tell you something. I never say none, and I ain't supposed to say. I say what I mean, and I mean what I say.

[Damaris]

Otherwise, that's that Harlem talk, right? Bottom.

[Rory]

Yeah, the speakers at the bottom.

[Damaris]

Hey. Nothing. So, yo, so quick, quickly, your. Your post came up, and, you know, it makes. It made some noise out there. You said. You know, you mentioned. In response to the. The latest J. Cole effort, you said that Dreamville affiliates feel like Kendrick Lamar isn't. He's. He's overrated. He's. You know, he's not all that. Um, so we brought it up in the room when we were talking about it, and the consensus in the room was you shouldn't have said what you said, because it kind of throws the camp under the bus to which I said, I didn't see nothing wrong. And then the other feeling was, it would have been, if you're gonna say what you said, you should have said who said it? Which I thought was absolutely crazy.

[E]

Where Rory at?

[Rory]

I'm right here, wino.

[E]

Roy, can I talk to you?

[Rory]

With you?

[E]

I know I ain't got but so much time, but I want to know what you thought, because you my dog.

[Rory]

And I respect you, and vice versa.

[Damaris]

You didn't want to know what I thought.

[Rory]

So my thing with the clip, because, again, I didn't see the entire thing, but you having the angle more or less. And to your point now, saying it was barbershop talk, and y'all was just having fun talk behind the scenes to then say that and angle it as, yo, I thought y'all was friends with tde puts a different type of sauce on top of it. That was my feeling with the entire thing. Like, all right, now you're making it seem like, yo, we've been bad friends to these guys, and we've been talking behind their back the entire time. That was my issue with it. And that's why I said put a name on a bullet. Because at that point, like, who in Dreamville you. You talking to? Who's really been shady to tde?

[E]

So I get. I get what you saying. I get what you're saying from that perspective, right? Like, I do. I can understand that. I'm a man, right? So I can understand how now, because I didn't look at it like that. I can understand where you're coming from. My thing was, is, like, it's just like, if we have. In general, if. If you. If you talking with somebody and they like, now, nobody said that. Like, it's not a general thing about everybody saying thing. This is just a conversation I'm having with somebody who I thought I was cool with, right? And we're having general rap conversation, debate all the time. Like, we debate about rap all the time. That's why we on these cameras, because we talk about stuff, right? So I wasn't trying to form it as, like, oh, td. I mean, Dreamville hates on Kendra. I'm just saying, like, yo, y'all. Y'all saying that. One person says, all right, he's overrated. So for me, again, my assumption is maybe you had a conversation with Cole one time, and maybe he.

[Mal]

He.

[E]

He might have. You might have gotten to his ear. That was the whole. The whole thing I took was this because you said you didn't see the whole thing. I said, yo, J. Cole, don't let people bully you into. What's the name? Into to making a decision. So then I get all of this. J. Cole don't have, like, the young thug meme. He don't have Internet. You know what I'm saying?

[Damaris]

So.

[E]

So it's like, now all these people is making it seem like I. I like. I'm a part of Dreamville in some sort of way, and I, like, spread these secrets. Like, that's not the case at all. This is just general conversation that if you man enough. I don't have to say. You said it. Say it yourself if you. If you're not scared.

[Julian]

You feel me?

[E]

But now.

[Rory]

Well, not everyone's a media person that has a platform where they just spew opinions. Some people are behind the scenes and happen to be in an artist village and just say some shit to people that I think are friends, man.

[Damaris]

Wayne O, where you was at when you heard that? Because these niggas saying you was at the bathroom and heard a. A with a GA wristband say that shit.

[E]

Nah, nah. So look, again, I think it's two things. I think on one side, it's, like, what it seems and what my intent was. What my intent was to just give context until onto what people say about the battle, right? When it came to J. Cole, I thought that he shouldn't have said nothing. That's the whole point I made. I thought he shouldn't have said nothing. And my assessment was like, bro, don't let your homies gas you up because niggas think that he's trash. You know what I'm saying? Now, if nobody said that to him and you came up with these bars about how Your first shit was classic. Your second shit was tragic. Then that's fine. But then don't take that back after you said it, because that's why I gave the analogy. If you step on my foot and you made a mistake and you say, sorry, that still don't mean that it didn't hurt. You feel me? So my intent. My. My intent wasn't to, like, stir up some shit. My intent was just to be honest about my approach and say, yo, like, I had, like, arguments with niggas regarding these battles. I'm thinking that Kendrick is going to do his thing. Other people don't. And that's.

[Julian]

That's.

[E]

That's the thing that I was trying to get across. It came across the wrong way to an extent. But ultimately, I ain't taking what I said back. You feel me?

[Damaris]

Like, oh, I respect that you ain't signed to Dreamville.

[Rory]

And again, I mean, we agree with you on that front. Our conversation more was being in these artist villages and being around these artists and their team.

[E]

Village, man, stop that.

[Rory]

That's the name of the. That's the name of what it's called, Wayne. Oh, it's called his village. I didn't name the village.

[Julian]

Interviews in the Village, bro.

[Damaris]

That's where you were supposed to.

[Rory]

I'm not saying you part of their team. I'm saying that's what it's called. And I'm saying some of the conversations that we have, especially at the height of that beef like you brought up before barbershop talk, some of that is not meant to go out because people's emotions were heightened, and the crew is so big. That could now be put on Cole or EB or someone else. Like, it could have just been a casual combo.

[E]

It don't like, end of the day, bro. It's like, end of day the day, bro. Like, I look at it from this perspective, I understand every standpoint, every point that you're making. Right? Like, I understand every point that you're making. Ultimately, bro, if I said something that ruffles some feathers, stop being a bird, I like it.

[Rory]

Well, Wayne, oh, we respect and love you. Thank you for calling in and hope to see you soon.

[E]

I love y'all brothers too, man. Keep doing your thing.

[Rory]

All right? Peace, bro.

[Damaris]

Peace.

[Rory]

Well, shout out again to Wayno Man. Staying on music. I listen to the Glorilla album over the weekend. I don't know if anyone else heard it. It's been a very pro Glorilla podcast, but Glorious is great.

[Damaris]

How is it? You like it?

[Rory]

It's a. It's a great gym album for men. Because you know how we always have that debate, like, some of this music isn't for us. That shit. I'm sorry, Merzik. How do you say it? Merzik? There's so many added Rs to this album that I didn't know needed ours. But she hard art every.

[Julian]

A lot of hard Rs.

[Rory]

Yeah, a lot of hard Rs.

[Damaris]

You gotta stay away from that.

[Rory]

I know, but this is where I can add hard Rs. Because she doesn't put it on the N word. She puts Rs in every word that doesn't need a R. Got you. I didn't even know there's an R in music.

[Damaris]

Any.

[Mal]

Anything with a U in it. She puts an R. Merzy.

[Rory]

It's great, though. I beat selection. Perfect for the gym lotto. Made me clutch my pearls.

[Mal]

What did she say?

[Rory]

She said in her verse, I'm gonna show you where to shoot. I want to lick the gooch. I was in the gym, like, damn.

[Mal]

You almost fell off the treadmill.

[Rory]

I'm so used to lotto just saying, like, he ate my. And I left. I didn't know she was, like, returning the favor and returning it like that.

[Damaris]

She seems like a very given person.

[Rory]

She says, I'll show you where to shoot, then I'm gonna lick the gooch. After I nut.

[Julian]

After the nut. That's Follow through.

[Damaris]

Somebody don't play about Lauda.

[Rory]

My God.

[Julian]

Her and T Pain sound I'm interested in.

[Mal]

That's pretty good. There's controversy going on because it was originally. The record was originally for Erica Banks. I think they gave it to. And they snatched it from her. Gave it to Glorilla. But I mean, duh.

[Rory]

I mean, yeah, I don't know the politics of that. All I know is Glo got off on that.

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Rory]

No, it's actually. This is for men, too, this project.

[Damaris]

I like Glorilla. Every time I hear her, every time I see an interview with her, her personality. She seems like a really cool person. So I like.

[Mal]

I like a. I like how Glow has her. Her thing. Like her shtick has kind of become in. Stayed, like, uplifting music. Most of her singles and everything is like, really, like, uplifting. Like you that bitch. Affirmations like that type of music and not in a corny way. And I really like. I appreciate that. And I also like. I really like the song. What her and Money Long, where it's basically about that nigga. It's the chorus Is that nigga don't deserve my friend. Like, he don't know what to do with a bad bitch. I always advocate for my bitches leaving their ain't shit niggas. So her making a whole song about that. Love it.

[Rory]

Yeah, she smoked that hook too.

[Damaris]

Is she holding women accountable, though?

[Rory]

I mean, it's not that song.

[Mal]

It's not, it's. The song is about you getting beated on and cheated on, so. No, she's not holding accountable.

[Rory]

Yeah, it's, it's. It's Eve. Love is blind, part two in a different way.

[Damaris]

Okay, D.V. yeah, got you.

[Rory]

But no, it's, it's great. And I, I will say she's a good example of artist development that we haven't seen in like a really long time. From what Glorillor was in the beginning to now, you could actually see the artist development and like, what they worked on, what she worked on, we rarely see that anymore. It's like, oh, you have YouTube streams, here's a record deal, and we throw you out there. Yeah, like they were. We watched her have a failed single. We watched her come back from that. Like, she's had two or three great singles from this. I've enjoyed watching her journey. That's all I'm really getting at.

[Mal]

But, and like I've said before, I personally think that Glorilla, when it comes to the women and just the party scene, I think Glorilla owned the summer with her songs. Because that fucking is 7pm Friday, it's 95 degrees. That was like in every party you had to hear that song.

[Rory]

So I wasn't even mad at the her and Sexyy Red doing the Wipe Me down flip. I usually hate flips and Wipe Me down is sacred to the Noops. So you know, I'd be very critical. I like the flip. I think they did it well.

[Damaris]

So shout out to Gloria. Hallelujah.

[Rory]

Glorilla.

[Damaris]

Gloria.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mal]

Glow.

[Rory]

Do we have voicemails though?

[Damaris]

You've got mail.

[Julian]

We do. I have a fun one to start with. Here we go. Ready?

[Mal]

Hey, Rory. Mall Damaris. And Julius. I said Julius. I'm weak, Julian. Oh, my God. Orange Julius. Sorry. I needed some advice. By the way, this is anonymous, but I am a married mother of one.

[Rory]

Oh, she cheating.

[Mal]

And I love my husband. Oh, she definitely to the death of me. But I also am still secretly in love with my ex. Sis, it's my bag.

[Rory]

Yeah, Glo.

[Mal]

To keep it brief. My ex and I, we were in a relationship for maybe 3ish years on and off. But I was also interacting with my current husband for that same duration of time. And then we ended up locking in getting married and having a baby. So I've been.

[Rory]

You mean your ex didn't want you.

[Mal]

Juggling postpartum and new wifehood, But I also still just have those thoughts of my ex. And of course, I mean, if I could turn it off, I would, but here we are. So give me some advice also. Damaris, I love you so much. You're beautiful. You look like you smell good. Rory, if I.

[Rory]

What'd that mean?

[Julian]

Oh, it just. It got cut. I don't think she understood there was a time limit, but that was just a really awkward spot.

[Rory]

Now I'm not gonna sleep tonight. Now I need to know what if. What?

[Mal]

I'm crying.

[Rory]

If she were to also cheat, it'd be with me.

[Mal]

I don't think that was what she was gonna say.

[Rory]

That's what I thought she was going.

[Mal]

Yeah, I didn't think that.

[Julian]

What's the deal? Is the grass greener, or how should she handle this?

[Rory]

I think it's the complete opposite. In your postpartum, it's shitty. And you're a new wife, and you had some fun with your ex, but there's no real structure there. Clearly he didn't want to be with you. And you settled for your husband, and you have a beautiful life because of it. Going back to some unstable fun bullshit. It. The grass is not greener, it's going to stress you out even more.

[Damaris]

I think that she. Well, first of all, salute to her for admitting that she's still in love with her ex. Yeah, a lot of people have a hard time even admitting that part. A few questions, though, like, what was it that drew her more to the current husband?

[Rory]

He was probably the only one that wanted to actually have a relationship. And so she sounds like he probably was the only one that was treating her good.

[Damaris]

Yeah, and we all know how that can go sometimes in relationship. Women come from a lot of toxic relationships. And then when they get a good, healthy relationship, it's not, quote unquote, exciting, fun, they're bored or whatever.

[Rory]

Let's call spade a spade. A lot of women don't want to be with a guy that will treat them better. Yeah, they are attracted to the bullshit.

[Damaris]

People love toxic toxicity. People love that. People. They need that in their lives. But, you know, I think again, you know, you got your family, you got too much to lose. You got your family now, you know, your baby, it sounds like he's providing a Home for his family. Didn't give much detail about the situation with the ex. So I don't know where he's at in his life if, you know, he's stable or not, but he didn't want.

[Rory]

To be with her when she was single without a baby. You think he's gonna swoop in and be like, now, let's be together.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I'm not saying stay in your. Your marriage. Your marriage stinks. Divorce him, but don't go with your ex. He didn't want.

[Damaris]

I'm just trying to figure out why they didn't make it.

[Mal]

Because he didn't want her.

[Rory]

He ain't want that girl.

[Mal]

And I mean that lovingly, because I love you too, but I know that situation from a mile away. He didn't want to be with her.

[Rory]

You don't love her. You're talking like her ex. Are you? Are you the ex?

[Mal]

I love people who show me love, and I do love our supporters. I mean, if y'all don't love the people that don't give y'all money for.

[Rory]

Patreon, our supporters and listeners are smarter than that. That's not what we're saying.

[Mal]

Oh, okay.

[Damaris]

That's the marriage bag right there. That gas lit?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

She keep a gas of butane in her.

[Julian]

Oh, damn. Quick pivot. There was a poll going around on who's the biggest gaslighter on the podcast, and you two were going neck and neck.

[Mal]

We were not neck and neck. Mall was like 75%. I was 20%. And you and Rude gaslighting you.

[Damaris]

That's exactly. People don't know what gaslighting is if they think. If they think I'm a gaslighter.

[Rory]

I don't think Mall's a gas.

[Damaris]

People don't know what gaslighting is a lot of things. But the mask is 100% the biggest gaslight on the show.

[Mal]

Do you.

[Damaris]

She starts everything with. So what you're saying is. No, that's not what I'm saying.

[Mal]

What I said, that's not gaslighting.

[Damaris]

Yes, that's exactly what it is.

[Mal]

Do you know what is gaslighting? What is the. Can you give me a definition of gaslighting, Damaris? That was proving my point. Thank you for proving my point.

[Rory]

Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse where a person causes someone to question their sanity, memories, or perception of reality.

[Mal]

So what the fuck are we talking about? What are we even talking about?

[Rory]

Well, there's example one.

[Mal]

What are we even talking about? That's Maul. Every time you say anything to him? What the fuck are we talking about? Y'all are fucking insane. Y'all are crazy. You just read that definition. Gaslighting.

[Damaris]

Y'all are crazy. You sat here and gave me an excuse why you thought Quavo was hotter than Chris Brown. That made no sense.

[Mal]

And that's gaslighting? Because that's not what we said.

[Rory]

Wait, what is gaslighting. Wait, that conversation. What did you not say?

[Mal]

That's not what we said.

[Julian]

That's just a difference of opinion.

[Mal]

What we said.

[Damaris]

What did you say? Don't say what we said. What did you say?

[Mal]

What I said was. And first of all, I didn't bring up the point. Rory brought up the point. But I supported him in saying in younger people, in a younger demographic at the specific time that we were in talking about a streetwear show, that Chris Brown and the Whatever Migo. We was. Quavo might be on the same level. Chris Brown is not just eating him up. We never talked about talent. Nobody was talking about talent. Nobody was talking about fame. Nobody was talking about them being a bigger star. We were talking about. That's not gaslighting, hip hop and younger kids.

[Rory]

That is exactly what we're talking about.

[Damaris]

That's not what y'all said. Y'all. Y'all said that Quavo was hotter than.

[Rory]

Chris Brown in that room for a streetwear brand. That in that one little venue, nobody's not.

[Damaris]

But he's okay. And you can disagree in no room. That's what I'm saying was proven.

[Mal]

But don't change what we were saying.

[Damaris]

We're wrong.

[Mal]

We wrong.

[Damaris]

We know.

[Rory]

But don't change gaslighting.

[Damaris]

That's not.

[Rory]

I know I'm wrong.

[Damaris]

The entire Internet, you're questioning me.

[Rory]

Admitting. Like admitting that I'm wrong.

[Damaris]

So I'm.

[Rory]

I feel gaslit.

[Damaris]

I'm speaking to Damaris being a bigger gaslighter. That's all I'm saying.

[Mal]

And I'm speaking to you not understanding what gaslighting means because you just literally gas the entire room.

[Damaris]

How did I get here?

[Rory]

How. I don't think that conversation had anything to do with gaslighting.

[Damaris]

Yeah, what is she. That's what I'm saying. What are you talking about? I'm speaking to that.

[Rory]

But I'm saying the example period of Quavo and Chris Brown, what did that have to do with gaslighting?

[Damaris]

What does the gas mean?

[Rory]

A form of psychological abuse where a person causes someone to question their sanity, memory, or perception of reality.

[Julian]

She would just a difference of opinion.

[Rory]

That's a different. Yeah, it's just a different.

[Julian]

You guys weren't like. That wasn't a gaslight.

[Damaris]

No, that's not. Y'all gotta go back and listen to that. And that's why I was sitting here like. Yeah. So when I say, what are y'all talking about?

[Mal]

What I said?

[Damaris]

So when I say, what are y'all talking about? That's what that is. It's like, are y'all. Do y'all hear what y'all saying right now? You're trying to change the perception of what reality is by saying Quavo's hotter than Chris. No on the planet would ever even keep gaslighting.

[Mal]

Because that's not what we said.

[Damaris]

You didn't say Quavo was hotter than Chris Brown.

[Mal]

Didn't we just explain this five minutes ago? Am I living in the fucking time I'm asking you?

[Damaris]

No, you're living in reality. You're living in reality, and you're trying to change the reality of what you said.

[Mal]

Clips. That's not what we said. We were talking about.

[Damaris]

Stop saying we start saying what you said.

[Mal]

Me. Me. Demerit says you get comb. That's not what I said. It's on YouTube. That's what I.

[Damaris]

So you didn't say that Chris Brown. You didn't say that Quavo was hotter than Chris Brown? What I said, you didn't say right now, in terms of whatever you said, that Quavo is a hotter name than Chris Brown. You didn't say that.

[Mal]

You keep saying Quavo. Did you say Quavo is bigger than Chris Brown? No, I didn't say that. I didn't say that.

[Damaris]

I said. You said Quavo is hotter than Chris.

[Mal]

Brown in a specific room.

[Damaris]

And I said, in no room in the world ever.

[Mal]

And that's.

[Damaris]

That's quo. How to name than Christopher Brown?

[Rory]

What about Thanksgiving at his grandmother's house?

[Damaris]

What is he talking about? Like, how. How am I. How is that not what you said? That's exactly what you said. And that's my point of you saying you don't gaslight. Because now you're saying that's not even what you said.

[Mal]

Okay?

[Damaris]

And that's exactly what you said.

[Mal]

Okay. I've come to realize that nuance is not really your best friend. That's fine.

[Damaris]

Nuance is not my best friend. Nuance.

[Mal]

Nuance is not your best friend. Every conversation has nuance to it. You ignored nuance and be like, I.

[Damaris]

Just repeated everything you said. I just repeated everything you said on that date, whatever date that was in March, April, Quavo was not hotter in any room on the planet than Chris Brown.

[Mal]

Okay?

[Damaris]

And you sat here and broke it down like, as far as household name this, that you said a bunch of that meant nothing.

[Mal]

Okay? That's your opinion. I'm not arguing.

[Damaris]

That's a fact. What are you talking about? The entire everybody that heard that clip agreed. Like, what are you talking about?

[Mal]

And that's your opinion.

[Rory]

Should she her ex or what?

[Damaris]

No, she definitely stay far.

[Mal]

Stay far away from. Stay far away. Stay far away from that. If you were still single and you still wanted to explore that, then you have every right to. But you signed on that dotted line. And not only did you sign on that at a line, you put a child into this world and promise to give it the best life you can. You need to get over it. It's the grass is not greener and you're remembering all the good times and conveniently forgetting the best.

[Rory]

She's gaslighting herself into thinking because she had fun with him for a few times that that would be the better relationship. You never had a real relationship with him or you'd be in one. Stop gaslighting yourself. He's not the one. If you have a fucked up marriage, divorce him and go find someone else.

[Mal]

And she didn't even say the marriage was fucked up, though. She probably just also doesn't feel like herself.

[Rory]

She am respectfully to her, if it's gotten to a point that she called into a podcast for advice that marriage is not in a great place.

[Mal]

But it's not even just the. That could. She's probably not in a good place. It doesn't mean that's the marriage. You can. You can be in a bad.

[Rory]

If somebody's in a bad place in a relationship, the relationship's in a bad place. As someone that's been through bad ones, yes. If one person is not present or around, that relationship is not in a good place.

[Mal]

I mean, I'm not disagreeing.

[Julian]

I found the clip. I was gonna replay it and I don't see.

[Mal]

The clip is awful because it's a minute of a bunch of different conversations. How many clips have we put out of you? And you be like, oh, that's not the full story.

[Rory]

Anonymous. Go. Your. Your ex boyfriend.

[Julian]

No, no, no, no.

[Mal]

This should just be so we're in a simulation.

[Rory]

Go do whatever makes you happy. Him. Your ex boyfriend. Him. Forget about logic perception. Him.

[Damaris]

That's what I said. I said the same shit you said.

[Rory]

You Want to start this again, Julian? Go ahead.

[Julian]

Yeah. I'm curious to see how it was caught.

[Damaris]

So you got to move somebody. Guess what? They moving that person.

[Julian]

You think if they told them they have to move cuevo, they move Quavo 100.

[Damaris]

That's Chris Brown at the rude event, though.

[Rory]

And rude being probably one of the biggest brands within the culture, they kind of have the same social status.

[Damaris]

Get the out of here. A bigger name than Quo. Is he a bigger star than Quavo in the world?

[Mal]

Obvious.

[Damaris]

All right, so what are we talking about?

[Mal]

But that's.

[Rory]

First of all, that's cut up.

[Mal]

Didn't. Now didn't he.

[Damaris]

Let it play, man.

[Rory]

Let it play.

[Damaris]

Nobody want to hear her right now.

[Mal]

Let it play. Obvious. Just make it play.

[Damaris]

This is a social event, okay, look, this is a social event. This is a fashion show.

[Rory]

Right now, name wise is quote unquote hotter he is.

[Damaris]

Yes, basically.

[Rory]

And that's not a bad thing to say. That happens with every artist. Artist ever.

[Damaris]

Based off of what though?

[Mal]

Quavo and amigos are bigger than Chris Brown when it comes to a name and name recognition. Difficult.

[Damaris]

What in any room. Chris Brown.

[Rory]

He's also cut around by that rude part. He cut out a lot.

[Damaris]

We heard what she said. What does that mean? That Quavo is a hotter name as far as what. What does that mean? Because Quavo amigos are not hotter a bigger name than Chris Brown in any scenario. We know that for a fact. That's not me guessing. That is a fact. Chris Brown is bigger than all of these.

[Mal]

Disagreeing with you, but we.

[Julian]

That wasn't the argument.

[Damaris]

So what did she say? She just said it.

[Mal]

Well, you won't know because it's a one minute clip that was cut. Impeached cut with the.

[Damaris]

What did you say right there?

[Rory]

Great way to cut.

[Damaris]

What did you say right there?

[Mal]

Literally cut to get arguing.

[Damaris]

So how come. So how come it's only cut? So how come everything I'm saying in the cut makes sense but what you said in the cut don't make sense?

[Mal]

I don't know. I didn't cut it. Like what the.

[Rory]

I figured that gaslighting.

[Mal]

Like, that's.

[Rory]

I appreciate. I was giving you props.

[Damaris]

It's right here.

[Rory]

We looking at it.

[Mal]

What are y talking about? I literally. I literally. Okay, you can't cut and clip.

[Rory]

What?

[Damaris]

You don't say she said it.

[Mal]

Okay, all right, hold on.

[Julian]

There's a little bit more. Hold on.

[Damaris]

It's not a big a girl sweet 16 in quo right now. What the are y'all?

[Rory]

Was boy sweet 16?

[Damaris]

No, don't have sweet 16. What is it? Tell me what your boy 16. You're not trying to change my perception of reality?

[Rory]

I do.

[Damaris]

What boy has a sweet 16 that's not changing my perception of reality?

[Rory]

Ellie Reed's son. I saw it on. I saw it on mtv.

[Julian]

It was on MTV too.

[Damaris]

Yo, y'all look crazy.

[Julian]

There was a lot of boys was 18 though.

[Rory]

I wish I would have went to my mom and said, can I have a sweet 16?

[Damaris]

What does that mean at a boy sweet 16? Who. What boy has a sweet 16?

[Rory]

If I remember correctly, we that got brought into the new generation and we were suggesting that when it came to sweet 16s today that they may want.

[Mal]

To go birthday parties or girls too? Yeah, girls too. Yeah, just birthday parties.

[Rory]

That they may choose Quavo because of the age gap.

[Damaris]

Corey, shut up. I'm just no fucking girl. No little girl on this planet is going to be happier to see Quavo at her birthday party than Chris Brown.

[Rory]

I'm never going to pull them.

[Damaris]

So you win.

[Rory]

Win.

[Damaris]

Of course you're not gonna pull it.

[Rory]

Because you know, that's, you know, you know, consent.

[Damaris]

Cut the man. Stop. Stop. Quavo. Ain't no way. Quavo ain't even the hottest in his group. I don't know how to Chris Brown.

[Mal]

What are we talking about?

[Rory]

I just don't know if 16 year old girls are just running to Chris Brown. I don't know. I don't know.

[Damaris]

Now you don't know if 16 year old girls are running to see Chris Brown?

[Rory]

No, I don't know.

[Damaris]

Roy, stop this. What's up with you? What's up, man?

[Rory]

I don't know.

[Damaris]

You can say you was wrong though. You could just say you was wrong.

[Rory]

I did before and you gaslit me and wouldn't let me say it.

[Damaris]

I'm not letting you.

[Rory]

You were mean to me when I said, yo, I'm wrong.

[Damaris]

I'm saying right now, you're saying that you don't know if there's been about.

[Rory]

Five episodes after that clip that I have said to you to your face, looked you dead in the eyes and said I was wrong. And you will never let me just be wrong.

[Damaris]

Cool. Speaking to what you just said, you said you don't.

[Rory]

You're acting like Kia right now.

[Damaris]

Hold on.

[Rory]

You just said, like I said I was wrong. Let it go.

[Damaris]

So you. You just said. You just said you don't know if little girls will run to a. I.

[Rory]

Don't know anything little girls are doing.

[Damaris]

16 year old girls.

[Rory]

Girls, I have no clue.

[Mal]

Still little girls.

[Damaris]

But I'm crazy, though.

[Rory]

I don't think you're. I don't think anyone.

[Mal]

Gaslighting. Do y'all see. Do y'all see the point? He's been proving the point for the past 10 minutes. Nobody said you were crazy. Nobody. I said 10 minutes ago that I agree with you. You proved us all wrong. Yes, you were right. I said that mad long ago.

[Damaris]

Yeah, but in a moment. No, no, no. In a moment he was gaslighting.

[Mal]

No, I wasn't gaslighting. I had a difference of opinion. People are allowed to have difference of opinion.

[Damaris]

That's usually what gaslighting opinion is. In fact, you're changing the perception of reality by saying that you felt like.

[Mal]

I'm giving my opinion.

[Damaris]

That's not. But that's. Nah, that's not what you did.

[Mal]

You said right now, the conversation, bro.

[Damaris]

You broke it down. You said, yo, as far as right.

[Mal]

Now, household name stood on the opinion. But when I supported his opinion with, okay, well, this is how. Break it down like this, then somehow it's you. You were saying this. You were saying this when. That's not what I said.

[Damaris]

We just saw you say it.

[Mal]

And I'm not gonna go off of the fact that Peach clipped it up like that to get reactions because he's good at his job.

[Julian]

Good job, Peas.

[Rory]

Yeah, but it was a great clip.

[Damaris]

But everything in my clip, everything that he clipped to me was me being right, though.

[Julian]

Oh, he is a biased editor.

[Damaris]

Okay. I didn't know.

[Julian]

He does me dirty.

[Damaris]

Oh, okay. All right. I didn't know that that's what was happening. My bad.

[Rory]

So who's the biggest gaslighter?

[Mal]

Like I said, let the room decide. Let the people listen and decide.

[Julian]

Vote in the comments, man. Cause right now, that poll was only on our Discord. Vote in the YouTube comments. We'll see.

[Rory]

What was the final poll on Discord?

[Julian]

Oh, it was mall.

[Rory]

I know, but like, what were the percentages?

[Julian]

I don't know.

[Rory]

I saw that they were doing it. I didn't see the final. Because doesn't it take like 24 hours?

[Damaris]

People thinking I'm a gaslighter is fucking insane.

[Julian]

That's the peak gaslighter answer right there. Response.

[Damaris]

You think I'm a gaslighter?

[Julian]

I can see the point, like with that Demaris is making.

[Damaris]

What's the point?

[Mal]

68% Mall, 23% Me, Rory, 5% Julian, 5%.

[Damaris]

He's first of All. He might be the biggest gas gaslight I've ever met in my life. What, in real life? Irl definitely. Without a doubt.

[Mal]

Or you gaslight a little bit, too. And so do I. I don't think we with them all, though. But you. You gaslight, too.

[Damaris]

You think she think I'm gaslighting by saying, what are we talking about? That's gaslighting. What are we talking about? If I'm speaking facts.

[Rory]

Wait. Okay. No. Now I'm wondering how I'm a gaslighter.

[Mal]

Rory. Like all that other shit. Fuck. I'm happy to be here.

[Damaris]

You literally admitted to being a gaslightable before.

[Rory]

You get gaslit in situations for fun. Absolutely.

[Damaris]

Okay. I'm not saying you're doing it for like.

[Rory]

Or you've been in relationships in real life. I thought you meant, like, I'm really out in these streets, G. I guess, like, for fun here. For sure.

[Damaris]

That's what I'm only talking about for him.

[Rory]

I completely make up things you say for. For fun.

[Damaris]

That's what I'm. That's what I'm speaking to.

[Julian]

That's exactly not what Damaris was saying.

[Mal]

No, you've gaslit in relationships before. That's. Oh, yeah, we're humans.

[Rory]

Like, we all think every man has done that. That before. But, like, I'm not like, a serial gaslighter.

[Damaris]

I see. I didn't put cereal in front of it. See, I never said that. I just said you are the biggest. One of the biggest guys.

[Rory]

Am I gaslighting right now?

[Mal]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

I don't know. You might be. Depends on what the definition is. What is it? Read again and put it into a sentence.

[Mal]

Gaslighting is if you sit up there telling somebody, like, if somebody. If you're cheating, and your girlfriend comes to you, like, I know you're cheating. I just can't prove it. I know you're cheating. He's like, you know I'm cheating. You're crazy. And that's your problem. Because your mother. You didn't stay with your father, and now you don't believe real life.

[Rory]

I've never worked before.

[Mal]

That's gaslighting.

[Damaris]

That's a form of gas.

[Julian]

Now make my.

[Rory]

Wait, what was that? Let me write that one down. So mother wasn't with father. I had to use that tonight.

[Mal]

Or saying some like, I know you. No, you don't remember that happened. And it's like, no, I don't remember that happened. I'm telling you that happened. Like, it's like, no, it didn't happen. Like what Ma just did to me. It got me looking like, damn, did that happen? It's like questioning your own sanity in.

[Rory]

Real life, out of a few relationships. I don't. I don't feel personally that I'm part of the gaslighting community.

[Damaris]

The Moon Line saying I'm the biggest gaslighter is wild.

[Julian]

Well, yeah. Should I play another one I don't like?

[Rory]

I don't know how I feel about Julian.

[Julian]

I. I am. First of all, we can all agree I'm an awful liar. I can't lie. That's why I suck at gaslighting.

[Rory]

But is gaslighting all based off lies, though?

[Julian]

Yes.

[Mal]

Not always.

[Julian]

You're not telling the truth when you're gaslighting.

[Mal]

Well, not always full lies, but. Yeah. But it's manipulation for sure.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Julian]

I can't lie for I'm awful or manipulate.

[Mal]

Yeah, you kind of suck it up.

[Julian]

I'm terrible at it.

[Damaris]

And manipulating. You're great at that. Lying.

[Julian]

I manipulate who?

[Damaris]

I've seen you manipulate things. Don't do that. Where you're like doctor. You're like Doctor Strange when it comes to manipulation.

[Julian]

It's explained.

[Damaris]

I mean, I've seen you do certain things where it was like, okay, you manipulated that situation, but it's not. Nothing crazy. But you can't say you're not a manipulator, though. I've seen you manipulate such a. Now, I'm not saying that you move through life trying to manipulate rooms and shit like that. No. But if you've done it, all, right.

[Rory]

So it's like 48 laws of power. Machiavelli. Like, are those scriptures? Are those Gaslighting? Because they don't really necessarily tell you to lie, per se. They just teach you how to manipulate.

[Damaris]

Embellish the truth a little.

[Mal]

Well, not all manipulate. Gaslighting is a form of manipulation, but not all manipulation is gaslighting. So there's manipulation, and then gaslighting is one of the umbrellas under.

[Rory]

Gosh, all right. The sub genre.

[Damaris]

Yeah, it's like universal and then, like, Def Jam.

[Rory]

All I know is you saying me being the biggest gaslighter you ever met in your life is hilarious. Knowing the people we know know.

[Julian]

You know, Diddy. That's. That's Spectrum, Yo. He's Con Ed.

[Damaris]

You calling Diddy Con Ed is.

[Rory]

Now that I think about it, he's the grid. I think Puff did gaslight me once.

[Damaris]

He was trying to do something else once.

[Rory]

I. I'm thinking about it now.

[Damaris]

Trying to warm you up, get you.

[Mal]

He did fire and desire.

[Julian]

To Fleshlight you.

[Mal]

He just sick.

[Rory]

Puff definitely gaslit me once, and I felt good about myself. But we have another voicemail. Let's. Let's go there.

[Damaris]

Oh, you was ready.

[Rory]

No, not for that. I didn't know he was doing that. But see, I didn't even see the breadcrumbs he was laying.

[Mal]

Did you, douche?

[Damaris]

Oh, you didn't see the oil? It's all good.

[Rory]

Yo, why were they so mean to Bow Wow on Twitter over the weekend?

[Damaris]

What Bow do?

[Mal]

I got Bow Wow's point, but he. He need to.

[Rory]

All right, say Cheese. I don't know if say Cheese misquoted him, but Bow Wow was saying Cheese probably did. That's what I'm saying.

[Damaris]

Okay.

[Rory]

I don't know if it's fair for Bow Wow, but they had posted something, A quote from Bow Wow saying, yo, since, like, Puff got locked up, all the party's been dead. Like, after BET weekend, there was nowhere to go.

[Damaris]

Like, Nah, he didn't say that. Wait, Bow Wow said that?

[Rory]

Say Cheese posted it. So I don't know.

[Damaris]

Bow wow said that, like, on a mic.

[Rory]

But somebody said, he's been so freaked out, he's having withdrawals. I was like, yo, this is fun. Don't do Bow Wow like that, man.

[Damaris]

Don't do that, man.

[Julian]

Yeah, he did apparently say.

[Mal]

Okay. So he said, bruh, supposed to be on a 250 foot yacht with his wife, legs up, chilling. It seems unreal at times. Me and Jermaine spoke about it, and I was like, I never thought we would see him in this position ever. He's the. He's like the gatekeeper to the game, to the point where BET Awards weekend, the past two, they just didn't feel right because there was no motion, no parties, There was nowhere to go. He was. He clarified that he didn't mean the freak offs. And he was like, there's just no parties. You feel it. Like, it's a whole. He was everything in hip hop. For that to die out, you just would have never thought. It's sad and it's messed up that we got to witness this. I don't blame him for what he said.

[Rory]

I do.

[Mal]

I don't. I get what he's.

[Rory]

Y'all don't get so many victims that weren't victimized.

[Mal]

Oh, it's definitely a bad time. He shouldn't have said it, but I understood where he was coming from.

[Rory]

Like, find another promoter.

[Mal]

Yeah, calling Diddy a promoter is funny.

[Rory]

It's never that serious. That's how Puff started.

[Mal]

I know, but that's. That's funny.

[Rory]

Yes. It's cool.

[Mal]

He shouldn't. He should.

[Rory]

Someone else can throw BET weekend parties in Atlanta.

[Damaris]

Cole. Sean, man, Word. You know, that's a little Powder puff.

[Rory]

He gonna fight you.

[Mal]

Nah, Sean gotta shoot him. That was wild.

[Damaris]

My. That's my. Right there.

[Mal]

You know, Powder puff is really, really.

[Damaris]

He could be Powder Puff off. It could be, like, the rebrand.

[Rory]

No, it's very funny.

[Damaris]

Shout out to Yo Sadiq. Still going on? Yeah, of course.

[Julian]

Yeah, definitely.

[Mal]

They moved it to. They got a Las Vegas one now. Everything.

[Rory]

Yeah, I don't know if that was officially announced, but Fire. That's going to be a thing.

[Damaris]

Sean different. Sean's still in the same.

[Rory]

Yeah, I see how the. The moon and the stars lined up.

[Damaris]

Come on, man. Go ahead and take that. That. Take that Lane leader, you know, the other. Alone.

[Rory]

Yeah, no, just have, like, parties.

[Damaris]

Just. Yeah, just regular, you know, Good night. Go home. Everybody go home. Like, that type of party.

[Rory]

There's. I've been to a million parties that nothing nasty happened. It was just a good time, and then everyone went home. Yeah, those are. Okay. Next voicemail.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Cheat on your husband to conclude the other one.

[Mal]

Cheat on your man. My. That's how you get a. His head.

[Julian]

All right, this thing sucks. Hold on, I'll refresh it.

[Rory]

So you get the herpes.

[F]

Okay. What's up, y'all? I'm not really asking for advice. I'm more just sharing a funny story. But I also could use advice, so, you know, let me know what y'all think. So when I'm not living on hore island waiting for the nuclear bomb, I'm a teacher, as y'all know. It's Maddie. What's up?

[Rory]

Hey, Maddie.

[F]

And one of the ways that I keep kids from being absolutely annoying or just wiling out in the classroom is by being incredibly cringe in my classroom management. So when Push and P came out and my ninth graders wouldn't shut up about pushing P, I read the lyrics to them in the style of Masterpiece Theater. I'm also, you know, catastrophically Caucasian, so they hated this. They stopped saying Push and P in my class. So this is, like, my general, like, method. Say the slang back to them, make it immediately not cool. It stops being said in my classroom. The problem is that the students have really become attached to the phrase glazing. And I just cannot use that term back at them, you know, because I'm trying to put genitalia and me or them in the Same sentence, Right. But like, they, they love saying it. Like, oh, Mr. Glazing, you're glazing. And it got really bad because they said I was glazing the assistant principal. And I was like, okay, okay, we need to stop. But if you tell a student to stop, they're just going to keep doing it. So I'm, you know, just laugh at my pain, I guess. And if you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

[Damaris]

Thanks.

[Julian]

Stop glazing.

[Rory]

Yeah. Sounds like you're too much of a glazer.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I mean, is Julian, you've worked as a teacher. Can she just get the glazing shit off or will she be thrown out?

[Julian]

Yeah, I was going to say that's a. That's a weird one because I really did try to think about how I would handle that. In her defense, there were some things that my students would say and I'm trying to remember, I can't remember what the things, but I would intentionally use them out of context or like it up and make it sound lame so they would stop saying it. That is a classic strategy. The stuff, the glazing one, you can't work.

[Rory]

Tell me how you made yo that's on GD sound lame.

[Julian]

Luckily they weren't saying that, but I. It was just like, yeah, like typical, you know, rap lyrics or insults. And I would just purposely use them out of context or just like refer to myself as it. And I'd be like, now what? And they're like, well, that's not fun if you just call yourself that. So they would just stop. Glazing's tough because in her, to your point, it is inherently sexual. And that's weird to say. Like, I taught middle schoolers, I wouldn't be like, stop glazing another 10 year old or 11 years old.

[Rory]

It's clear you've been glazing those books. You need to glaze that homework. No, see, but it sounds lame. I wasn't trying to sound cool.

[Mal]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rory]

I think my point came across there. Right?

[Julian]

Yeah. The angle is to make it sound like it's lame.

[Mal]

So I think, I think. I don't know. I don't know the school rules or how you. I would say still use it. Like, use it to the point where it's annoying and nauseating to them. And if the school board just comes to you, say it's something like you're putting extra sauce on something like, just lie. Like, oh, you're putting extra sauce on. Like, like a don't. Like a glazed. Donut you're putting.

[Rory]

Maybe bring in some glazed donuts. Or that day you get away with all the glaze comments.

[Julian]

Another thing, too is like, this is their. You know, this, the slang, the kid slang. So it's like, all right, so if you don't draw attention to it or if you don't make it a big deal, I'm not going to say it'll go away, but just don't make it a thing. When you hear it, don't try to call it out, because they'll. Then they'll start saying it intentionally to get a reaction or rise out of you. So if a kid, like, raises their hand and gets like, a question, right? And they're like, yes. And then someone from across the room's like, stop glazing or whatever the fuck, then just ignore it. Just pretend like you didn't hear it, let it move on. And then if you don't give it attention, they're more than less likely to say it or do it.

[Mal]

And these kids come up with. This generation of kids comes up with so much slang so often. Like, the new. It'll be a new word on TikTok by tomorrow. Like, just wait it out.

[Rory]

I know we brought it up on this show already, but could be a fun time to revisit it. Type in teacher N word. You could go all the way with it if you want to, because that was a great strategy for teachers trying to get students to sign. Stop saying curse words.

[Julian]

Can I get a pencil?

[Mal]

Oh, I. Y'all played that on here before.

[Julian]

I know. I mean, like over a year ago.

[Rory]

This could be the best strategy because then you'll get on the news, too.

[Julian]

That's how you really shake the room. That's how you get the timeline in a frenzy. And word, get away from the door.

[Rory]

And he said this was his training, too. I repeated, why. Why is this word used.

[E]

Used so frequently?

[Rory]

So I just. I just don't understand it. And I'm trying to understand it. I need help.

[Julian]

Yes. I. I'm a black journalist.

[Rory]

I. I've used it. I admit it. I put the H on it to emphasize.

[Julian]

It's.

[Rory]

That, you know, this nigga, please, you know, can you lend a. A pencil? So I think what she should do is maybe bring in two pieces of paper with glaze and what the real definition of it is. And then glazing with their definition of. And then maybe form a line of who's glazed and who hasn't.

[Damaris]

Or say, you'll be glazed in summer school this year.

[Mal]

Oh, yeah.

[Damaris]

You start something like, yo, wait till summertime and you still in this class. You're gonna be glazing me.

[Julian]

Whoa, wait, no, that's. That's the end of your tenure.

[Damaris]

No, now, now.

[Rory]

As long as she's wearing the appropriate clothes, teachers can say whatever.

[Damaris]

As long as she's wearing loose fitting clothes, she can get that off. Yeah, got it.

[Mal]

Maddie being tight ass jeans. Ass poking, probably.

[Julian]

Yeah. You know that.

[Mal]

Yeah, she posted when we had that whole argument. She said Rory was an idiot.

[Rory]

Do we have another voicemail or should we wrap up now?

[Julian]

Let's. Let's wrap.

[Rory]

Let's wrap up.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Rory]

This was fun. We are in Toronto this Thursday.

[Damaris]

Yes.

[Rory]

Can't wait to see you guys in the 6 in. In. In T dot.

[Damaris]

Yes.

[Rory]

All the cool names that you guys have.

[Damaris]

Tickets available [e-mail] we will be in Atlanta November 22nd and then finish out the year here. Home in New York City at the Gramsey Theater December 14th.

[Rory]

Yes.

[Damaris]

Get your tickets now. Tickets available [e-mail] thank you to Wayne O. For calling in. We appreciate that, but. All right, man, so let's go get these lighters and gaslight some the rest of the day, man.

[Rory]

Agreed.

[Damaris]

Everybody have a safe week. We'll be back in a couple days to kick it with y'all. Be safe, be blessed. I'm that he's just Ginger. Peace.

[Rory]

No worrying now.