Episode 404 | Flip The Menu Over

Summary

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New Rory & MAL – Episode 404 | "Flip The Menu Over"

Release Date: September 11, 2025
Hosts: Rory, Maul (Mal), Damaris
Podcast Network: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

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Episode Overview

Episode 404 brings classic "New Rory & Mal" energy: irreverent humor, random hot takes, and a no-filter exploration of viral stories. The crew navigates everything from social media rumors and the music industry's payola scandals to discussions about pop culture legends, sex work, and formative childhood experiences with food. The title, "Flip The Menu Over," nods to a wild Charlie Sheen interview discussed in-depth, turning a new page in taboo honesty. The episode interweaves laughter, real talk, and outlandish debates, keeping listeners engaged from start to finish.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Celebrating Creative Projects and Video Shoots

[03:02–05:22]

• Rory and Maul shout out Raven, director of the "Off Road" video featuring Masego and Freddie Gibbs, poking fun at her illustrious résumé.
• Behind-the-scenes stories: Rory recounts the struggle of falling into a pool in expensive corduroys during the shoot.
• Jess from VanJess (credited as “very talent, not just a model”) gets her flowers for stepping up with a rap verse.
• Quote:
  • “Don’t get pushed in a pool with expensive corduroys on… they will bring you down and you will drown.” – Rory [03:56]

2. Boost Mobile and Juicy Couture Antics

[05:22–06:23]

• The team jokes about their over-the-top sponsor plugs for Boost Mobile.
• Rory and Maul notice Damaris’ Juicy Couture outfit, sparking a nostalgic riff on velour tracksuits.
• “Everything's juice today!” – Damaris [05:54]
• Lighthearted banter about the customized lighting on set.

3. Twitter Drama: Rory and the N-Word Rumor

[07:00–11:11]

• Rory recounts discovering he was "getting smoked" on Twitter for supposedly saying the N-word on a previous episode.
• Maul claims vindication:
  • "Rory definitely says the N-word. Why won't anybody listen to me?" – Maul [07:41]
• They analyze the clip in question, deciding it’s a misheard moment, with Damaris noting it "does sound like he said it" but clarifying he didn't.
• Rory describes years of internet sleuths trying to catch him slipping:
  • “They have been trying to get me for 10 years… sometimes it'd be somebody in the background saying it and my mouth is closed—‘See! Rory said it!’” – Rory [07:50]
• Transition to a larger conversation about online outrage and attempts at "cancellation."

4. Sean King, Social Media, and Appropriating Causes

[11:34–13:51]

• Brief debate about activist Shaun King's social presence and his conversion to Islam.
• Jokes about the optics of shifting religious or activist identities for online clout.
  • “That’s where the algorithm’s at now: I’m Muslim.” – Rory [12:36]

5. The Radio RICO/Payola Scandal

[15:08–27:41]
One of the meatiest segments centers on industry corruption:

• Payola & “Radio RICO” – Rory and Maul dive deep into the (fictionalized) unfolding of a RICO investigation involving major radio conglomerates and record labels laundering money via payola schemes.
• Definitions and distinctions:
  • “Payola is when companies or people will pay DJs or radio executives...so that someone can play a record.” – Rory [16:30]
  • “The bigger part... is the money laundering portion...” – Rory [17:26]
• Rory jokes he “may end up being in this case as well” since “all our opinions up here are bought.” [15:48]
• They discuss the cyclical nature of music industry scandals—the “fall guy” mentality, federal motivations (“the Feds are bored and just running wild with RICO”), and how moves like Drake’s lawsuit force increased transparency.
• Notable Moment:
  • “They’ll find a fall guy and everything will be business as usual. And they’ll find a new way to do it.” – Rory [19:12]
  • “These aren’t criminals. These are fucking DJs and radio personalities.” – Rory [35:28]

6. Debating RICO Law’s Overreach & Misapplication

[21:06–24:20]

• Philosophical argument about RICO's structure, overbroad application (using mafia and gang analogies), and calls for reform.
  • “There needs to be regulation on RICO.” – Rory [21:48]
  • Damaris counters that community leaders create environments enabling harmful behavior.

7. Integrity and Snitching in the Music Business

[35:33–38:31]

• Discussing allegations (and rumors) of Funk Flex cooperating with feds.
• Question the ethics of cleaning up radio via informing, drawing a line between maintaining “integrity” and “snitching.”
  • “If you’re working with the federal government to clean up something that I feel has destroyed radio…I don’t think that Flex is wrong.” – Rory [37:20]
  • “I understand it, but I don’t respect it.” – Maul [38:31]

8. Sex Work, Ego, and the Economics of Relationships

[44:26–47:58]

• Maul and Rory reflect on the notion of paying for sex—Maul admits he “physically can’t pay,” while Rory describes needing to believe women “like” him for real.
  • “I’m not above it…I just have to think you like me when we’re having sex.” – Rory [45:07]
• Damaris breaks down the transactional aspects from the sex worker's perspective, noting men often "talk themselves out of free pussy" by turning it into a business transaction.

Stripping, Payola, and the "Economics of Attraction"

[47:08–48:35]

• Lively debate: Is throwing money at a strip club or on club DJs a form of payola or paying for sex "indirectly"?
• “If you wouldn’t have gotten that pussy if you wasn’t throwing that money in the strip club…” – Damaris [48:05]
• They compare the gray areas of gift-giving, dinner dates, and attraction.

9. Legendary Performers – Dance, Choreography & Influence

[49:04–56:39]

• Chris Brown’s humility on IG, Michael Jackson, Beyoncé, and Usher compared.
• Hosts argue Chris is a superior dancer but Michael (and Beyoncé) take the crown for iconic choreography.
  • “Chris Brown is a better dancer than Michael Jackson.” – Maul [50:07]
  • “As far as iconic choreography, I think Michael and Beyoncé are over here…” – Rory [51:43]
• Damaris: Simpler dances go viral (“Single Ladies”), while Chris and Usher’s are harder for the masses.

Choreographers’ Recognition and Legacy

• Rory notes choreographers rarely get industry props, and Damaris highlights key figures like Sean Bankhead (Cardi B, Victoria Monét).

10. Animated Childhood: Toy Story, Pixar, and Classic Movies

[60:06–63:11]

• The group reminisces about the impact of Toy Story on their own kids and themselves and marvels at Pixar’s legacy.
  • "The fact that that was made in 1995 is insane." – Rory [61:31]

The Oscars: Losing Out to Blockbusters

• Briefly, the crew laughs about actors missing out on awards due to timing; Tom Hanks “losing” the Oscar to Russell Crowe in Gladiator.

11. The Viral Charlie Sheen Interview: Sex, Drugs, and "Flipping the Menu Over"

[71:56–78:44]

• Reactions to Charlie Sheen's openly discussing his bisexual experiences while high ("flipping the menu over"):
  • "'Crack is what started it. That's where it was born…' — Charlie Sheen, Good Morning America" [73:10]
  • “He calls it flipping the menu over, having gay sex.” – Maul [73:23]
• Heated debate: Can drugs like crack make you "do things you never imagined" (including gay sex)? Maul and Damaris say no—drugs only unlock what's already within you.
  • “There’s no drug that can prepare you to hit your knees and suck dick.” – Damaris [75:07]
  • “I’d kill this whole room before I sucked a dick.” – Maul [76:16]
  • Rory admits: “If there was a firing squad…the only way to save the four of y’all was for me to suck a dick, I would probably do it.” [78:18]

12. Voicemail: Relationships, Trickin', and Respect

[80:28–84:42]

• Caller asks why men who financially support women get treated with less “reverence”. Damaris shreds the idea that monetary gifts guarantee respect.
  • “Just because you’re paying for things…doesn't mean you’re a good partner.” – Damaris [81:57]
  • Rory: "He sounds like he was just tricking and once he stopped tricking, she ain't want him." [82:30]

13. Growing Up Broke: Sugar Sandwiches and School Lunches

[84:42–92:13]

• Conversation veers into nostalgia about creative “poverty meals” like sugar sandwiches.
• Reflections on government assistance, the stigma of food stamps and EBT, and the classic American school cafeteria experience (powdered eggs, “turkey surprise,” and bad personal pizzas).
  • “Who’s eating tater tots and chocolate milk at 8 in the morning?” – Maul [89:27]

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Memorable Quotes

• “Don’t get pushed in a pool with expensive corduroys on.” – Rory [03:56]
• “Rory definitely says the N-word. Why won’t anybody listen to me?” – Maul [07:41]
• “They’ll find a fall guy and everything will be business as usual.” – Rory on music industry scandals [19:12]
• “I think you hoes have more integrity than all of us, the whole business.” – Rory, on integrity in various industries [44:04]
• “There’s no drug that can prepare you to hit your knees and suck dick.” – Damaris [75:07]
• “I’d kill this whole room before I sucked a dick.” – Maul [76:16]
• “If there was a firing squad…the only way to save the four of y’all was for me to suck a dick, I would probably do it.” – Rory [78:18]
• “Who’s eating tater tots and chocolate milk at 8 in the morning?” – Maul [89:27]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:02 – Shout-out to Raven & Music Video Behind-the-Scenes
• 05:22 – Boost Mobile & Juicy Couture Jokes
• 07:00 – The N-Word Controversy, Online Outrage
• 11:34 – Social Media Activism & Shaun King
• 15:08 – Radio RICO, Payola & Music Industry Scandal
• 21:06 – RICO Law Discussion
• 35:33 – Music Industry Integrity, Snitching Dynamics
• 44:26 – Sex Work, Ego, and Money in Relationships
• 49:04 – Legendary Dancers, Choreography, and Chris Brown Discourse
• 60:06 – Movie Nostalgia, Toy Story, and Pixar’s Legacy
• 71:56 – The Charlie Sheen Viral Interview
• 80:28 – Voicemail Segment: Relationships & Transactions
• 84:42 – Poverty Meals & Public School Lunch Memories

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Tone & Language

The tone is unapologetically candid, comedic, and sometimes raunchy, with plenty of streetwise banter and sharp cultural commentary. The chemistry among the hosts shines, and even heated debates remain underpinned by humor and mutual respect.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode is a quintessential slice of "New Rory & Mal": a rollercoaster of hip-hop industry news, playful arguments, pop culture deep-dives, wild hypotheticals, and real talk about money, sex, and growing up broke. If you love honest, unfiltered conversation and don’t mind a few controversial tangents, Episode 404 is not to be missed.

Transcript

[Damaris]

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[Rory]

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[Maul]

A.

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[Maul]

No warrior.

[Rory]

Now Shameless Plug. Everybody please go watch the off road video featuring Masego and Freddie Gibbs directed.

[Maul]

I appreciate my dog right there. That's my dog.

[Rory]

Directed by my Raven. She smoked it at Ray V. That's my dog. I'm happy that she took time off from shooting Beyonce, Jay Z, and Adele. Yeah.

[Maul]

She has other people that she works.

[Rory]

With, but film my dumbass, she's really made it.

[Maul]

Now that she's like. Now that she's like, shot you, that's.

[Rory]

Just a funny resume. Like, I mean, not to say that she has, like, a real resume that she would go in to give to a gig, but just imagine seeing that on the resume. Like, in order, though, like.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

All right, so you did both on the Run tours. You did Adele's entire residency.

[Maul]

Small Vegas.

[Rory]

And then after that, you decided to go to the what?

[Maul]

To the Mercedes. Freddie Gibbs and Rory, Those are small feats. Ravi, you have now made it. Congrats, Ravi.

[Rory]

Yeah, man, we're two for two. Yeah, we are two for two. She did enough video.

[Maul]

I love it, man. I love it.

[Rory]

Yeah, it was definitely a fun, fun video for sure. I will say, don't get pushed in a pool with expensive corduroys on, because they will bring you down and you will drown.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Like, I was. I was fighting for my life to get to the shallow end at one point. Like, those corridors really weighing me down.

[Maul]

You hit your core. You're working on your core, trying to try not to die.

[Rory]

Yeah, but please, please watch it. Give it a view. How long do they have to watch for for a view to count? Just a second.

[Damaris]

No.

[Rory]

All right, well, I mean, just watch the whole thing and then just maybe put it on repeat. I gotta get.

[Maul]

Send it to somebody. Yeah, so they can watch it.

[Rory]

Yeah, it's. I had to pitch to YouTube. That's always fun. Just sell yourself on a zoom to try to make the video deeper than it really is. It's like, nah, Freddie. Freddie was somewhere else. Masego was in Brazil. I had to shoot a video. There's no meeting here.

[Maul]

Yeah, it was dope, though. I like. I like the concept, like, the way it came out.

[Rory]

Yeah, no, it was a really good video.

[Maul]

Dope record.

[Rory]

Definitely a good time. And shout out to Jess from Van. Jess, I don't like to say model, I guess. Talent. She's a very talent.

[Maul]

Very talent is the better.

[Rory]

Extremely talented singer. And she smoked this. I needed somebody I knew who's like, actually deliver a verse because they were sending just, like, a bunch of Models from agencies. I'm like, I know none of these chicks could rap. Like, if I send them a Freddie Gibbs verse, they're gonna be like, not a chance. All right, yeah, it's not happening. I'll wait for another video. Yeah, I don't think I need to be in the Rory video. But anyways, how are you?

[Maul]

I'm good, man. I'm good. We're back. Sponsored by Boost Mobile.

[Rory]

Yeah, I was about to ask you, feeling a little boosty today?

[Maul]

I'm feeling boosty. You know what I'm saying? I got my boost. My boost liquid, you know? Did they send you some boost juice?

[Rory]

For sure.

[Maul]

You got to get your boost juice.

[Rory]

You gotta get boosted. Yeah.

[Maul]

Get you little Molly water, unlimited talk, text and data and juice. That's 5G juice. You never had no 5G juice.

[Rory]

Of course I had. That's how I got Covid.

[Maul]

Yeah, you could talk more. You talk more once you get the 5G juice.

[Rory]

Speaking of juice, I feel like Damaris. I can't see her past the camera. Do you have a little. Is that a juicy guitar fit that you have on right now?

[Damaris]

I do.

[Rory]

Everything's juice today.

[Damaris]

You gotta bring the juicy Ma.

[Rory]

You know, it looks great. That's a good color on you.

[Maul]

I didn't know it was Juicy Couture, though. I knew it was a velour suit. I didn't know it was Juicy. Whoa.

[Damaris]

The juicy on the butt.

[Maul]

Oh, that's real Juicy Couture.

[Rory]

They're gonna gift that. That's gonna be a gift by tomorrow.

[Maul]

Yeah, Juicy Couture. It looks good. That color looks good on you. Like it?

[Rory]

It's. Something's there. Oh, I see you actually match the light, too. Meanwhile, while Peach washes me out to be even whiter than I am, which is almost impossible.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Damaris gets to change her lighting to whatever outfit she's wearing per day.

[Maul]

Yeah, no, let's let the ladies do that. Just throw a hundred. A thousand watt bulb in there and let's get to the.

[Rory]

I wish we could just completely, like, split now, you know, like certain cars. You can do the sink or one side can get air conditioned. One can't. I wish we could just make it darker over here.

[Maul]

You want it to be darker?

[Rory]

I. I need to be darker. Yes. This is. It's offensive.

[Maul]

We'll work on that.

[Rory]

Too dark. So I've. I've sacrificed myself. All the women, heartthrobs that love podcasting, don't think I'm attractive. That's the sacrifice.

[Maul]

I make it's okay, man. Don't worry about it, man. You look great.

[Rory]

All the women that listen, all the.

[Maul]

Women, all seven of you, thank you so much.

[Rory]

Yesterday I was busy, so I wasn't, like, really in the. The Twitter streets like that. So you ever, like, get killed on the Internet and then be the last to know? Like, you start, like, you start getting calls like you're asking me something wrong. Like, no, you getting. You getting smoker?

[Maul]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rory]

Anytime somebody calls you and goes, are you okay? Yeah.

[Maul]

I'm like, I know a thing or two about that.

[Rory]

Is that like 4:35pm I'm like, wait, why. Why is everyone hitting me about some N word?

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And then I hit Damaris. I was like, can you fill me on what the is going on? She's like, oh, yeah, you said. You said the N word. I was like, oh, okay.

[Maul]

Listen, man. Yeah, I don't even want. I don't want no flowers. I don't want no flowers. But I told y', all, I did.

[Rory]

Not say the N word more.

[Maul]

Rory definitely says the N word. Why won't anybody listen to me? I don't know. Maybe I have to yell for people to understand and listen, and I don't want to do that.

[Rory]

They have been trying to get me for 10 years with. With random clips. Sometimes it be somebody in the background saying it, and my mouth is closed. They're like, see, Rory said it. This is the first time. I think y' all may have a case. I didn't hear it because I didn't say it. But when I listened back because Jamara sent me the clip and I was like, oh, yeah, I see what they're saying. Can we play it?

[Maul]

Can we play the clip? I just want to. I just want to hear it because you text me. Rory texted me yesterday and. Or last night, and he was like, yo. Something the nword. And I didn't understand if he was joking or not. So then I called him and he didn't answer. Said I was just laughing.

[Rory]

I was in a session when you called me. I meant to hit you back, but it was super late by the time I got up. Flirting. It's a big. Did you see Bank's face when he's. No, I was just flirting. It sounds like it N. I didn't say.

[Maul]

I didn't say it, but it's not.

[Rory]

I fully understand why everyone thinks he.

[Maul]

Said, no, it was just flirting.

[Rory]

I know, but.

[Damaris]

Josh said.

[Rory]

Did you see back face when he's. We don't have to keep flirting.

[Maul]

Nah, he didn't say N. He didn't say the N word.

[Damaris]

I know he didn't say it, but it does sound like he said it.

[Maul]

This was the first, the only reason it sounds like he said it, cuz. Y' all know he says it. Y' all know when he ain't around, he says it like. That's why it sounds like he says it.

[Rory]

Well, I mean, I wait till you, Josh, and Ameris leave the studio, and then Pete, then Peach and I throw on some throwing. Some old dirty bastard go crazy.

[Damaris]

Wait, what?

[Rory]

So we're talking about it?

[Damaris]

We're talking about it in the office before you guys get here. Here goes Peach. Peach is like. So does that mean, like, we can all say it and look at dinner? I'm like, peach, please, right now. Okay.

[Maul]

Everyone gets it.

[Rory]

It's his birthday, though.

[Maul]

Yeah, Peach, you definitely can say it on your birthday. You definitely allowed to say the N word. It's all good, man. Don't trip. But yeah. No, you didn't. That didn't. That didn't sound like it, though. Nickerson Gardens was a better case than.

[Damaris]

That N. This better?

[Rory]

Really?

[Damaris]

Garden wasn't what Nickerson Garden sounded like. Nickerson Gardens. I'm still not fully convinced that he didn't say Nick.

[Maul]

I'm not convinced he didn't say in Gardens. I'm still not convinced he didn't say that.

[Rory]

I thought that was the name of the housing complex.

[Maul]

It is Niggas and Gardens. Yeah. That's what it is. In gardens.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Maul]

Like this one. No, no.

[Rory]

A lot of grassy areas and watts.

[Maul]

Yeah, that. You could beat that case. That's. That's nothing right there.

[Rory]

I mean, yeah, I have nothing here.

[Maul]

That N word, Rico. You know, don't worry about it. You can walk out of court on that. Don't worry about that.

[Rory]

Then people were. I love when people give you too much credit than you deserve. I saw some people saying. Because in the off road video, I'm trying to rap Freddy's verse, and he says the N word at the end. That.

[Maul]

Oh, my God.

[Rory]

That I was doing a rollout to. Then tease me saying it in the off road video. I was like, yo, I wish I was that smart. I didn't thank you for giving me that type of credit because that did not cross the line.

[Maul]

I didn't even think about that. The verse, the Freddy verse. I did not even put that together. That's hilarious.

[Rory]

So, yeah, I mean, I, you know, I say it in the off road video. I said our last episode. This is this is my N word rollout.

[Maul]

Yeah, it's all good, man. It's all right. It's just a word, man. Say it. Say it loud and proud.

[Rory]

Don't tell me to say it loud.

[Maul]

And say it loud.

[Rory]

Why would I be proud of, like, what am I saying that word in a proud way? Because unless I'm in the proud boy.

[Maul]

Because you're not saying the N word. That is, like, you know, like, offensive. You're saying the N word. That is, like, the word.

[Rory]

I think it's offensive if my white face says any version of the man.

[Maul]

That's not at all, bro. Not at all.

[Damaris]

Well, just. Just to clarify, Rory did not say it, and we can't. We're not canceling him. We're not firing.

[Maul]

Cancel. That's not a real thing. No more. Cancel. You know, the. Is out here doing. Nobody can be canceled no more. That.

[Rory]

That would have been a funny sketch if I came out the elevator and all you guys were sitting there and. And fired me from my own company.

[Maul]

For saying the N words.

[Rory]

Yeah, and. And y' all had, like, D Ray in the vest, like, right on the couch, too.

[Maul]

Yeah. Nah, man. It's all good, though.

[Rory]

Sean King's here sitting Indian style.

[Maul]

What's up with Shawn King?

[Rory]

I haven't heard using the N word.

[Maul]

He hasn't been, like, he converted to Islam.

[Rory]

He's. He's Muslim now. No more dope gang.

[Maul]

But, like, I haven't even seen, like, anything with Shawn King, like, on social media, online. Anything. Like, he just, like, is, like, not even. I don't see anything for Sean King anymore. Like, is he still active on social media? Is he still active in, like. I remember he was talking about something with Palestine.

[Rory]

Yeah, there was. There's a. There's a whole conflict going on over there.

[Maul]

No, I know that, but he. The last time I remember talking about Shawn King is. I think he said he was going to stop the conflict in.

[Rory]

He said. Yeah, he. I mean, he was in. He was doing negotiations for a ceasefire and also converted. He converted to. Listen, you have to give him at least the marketing credit that he deserves. Once the world started focusing on Israel and Palestine, it's been going on for 40 years, but, yeah, once the world, like, started to focus on it, taking.

[Maul]

That thing serious over there, he was.

[Rory]

Like, all right, that's. That's where the algorithm's at now I'm Muslim.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

No, he really said he converted because of the. The struggle of the Palestinian people. That's why he wanted to convert.

[Maul]

But is it like a Britney Rena Muslim or is he like, really, like.

[Rory]

I need you to. What. What do you think of Britney Renner Muslim?

[Maul]

Because I think she was Muslim because she was dating Kevin Gates at the time, who is.

[Rory]

Who isn't Muslim. Yeah.

[Maul]

So she obviously, you know, she took on the Muslim religion for her. Her pardon. At the time.

[Rory]

Yeah. Okay. But religion isn't like, you know, when girls start, like, dressing like their boyfriend. That's not like, religion isn't that. Well, I mean, like, date somebody for a month and it's like. No, it's just Judaism in September and then we broke up. So. No, but you have to back to Jesus.

[Maul]

You have to be for 60 days, right? Is it was 60 or 90 days, something like that? Yeah. So she did her 90 days in. What is it? 90 days in. And. And what's the show? 90 days. 60 days in. 90 days in. She did 90 days in.

[Rory]

Well, they got married too, right. Because I think she's still in her divorce. No, because you can't get divorced right away in Islam. Like, they have a window with which I actually agree with that. Like, I think marriage in general, like, there should. If you want to get a divorce, give it 90 days.

[Maul]

Yeah. Think about it.

[Rory]

Yeah. But.

[Maul]

Yeah, I don't know if they got married, though.

[Rory]

But I mean, either way, I do have full confidence in Sean King against Netanyahu. I think he's going to be. It's either going to be Pat Patrick David or Sean King, I think is going to end this. This conflict for us.

[Maul]

But hopefully they get the job.

[Rory]

I'm really shocked that he didn't do, like, fundraising for his. His own Ramadan. Like, I could see him doing a telethon on Live. Sean King, like, yeah. Wow. He's fasting.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And the money goes to him. But he's going to, like, let's check.

[Maul]

In on Sean King, send him a little DM and just make sure he's all right, man. I haven't heard much from Sean King in a while.

[Rory]

Peace God. You want me? Just.

[Maul]

You want me? I just want to make sure he's good, man.

[Rory]

I'll dm. Peace God.

[Maul]

I think he's a good guy. I think he means well. So just want to check in on him. That's all.

[Rory]

I'm trying to think. Oh, yeah. Also in the midst of me rolling out the N word, I kind of. I kind of want my media. Media flowers, man. I kind of. I kind of feel like maul and I don't get a lot of credit for the stuff that we break, there's a lot of news that we have been the first people to talk about it, to break that news. And then it catches legs and everyone just goes to. To the mass media people, like, they were the ones that broke the. I've been telling y' all that a RICO case was coming with radio, right? We just skipped over that.

[Maul]

No, I mean, you didn't really. You didn't really. You. You alluded to it. You. You kind of flirted with it and then. But you. We didn't really go into it.

[Rory]

I did. I wanted to wait for the full report to actually come out.

[Maul]

Okay.

[Rory]

And it's. It's gonna. It's gonna be a long day for some of you guys.

[Maul]

How long of a day?

[Rory]

I got. I got a glance at some of that paperwork. There's some crazy names in there. It is like, I know a lot of y' all government names, though. I felt like whack 100. Like I was having a paperwork party. I was like, they was in on it, too. And wait, that's his real name.

[Maul]

But what does this mean, though, like, for music?

[Rory]

I mean, I think it's not just with the radio companies, obviously. Iheart, which we're on, being one of the biggest conglomerates of all time, I can speak for. I've definitely taken Payola. So, I mean, we may end up being in this. This case as well. Like, all our opinions up here are bought. They pay us for them, which is directly funneled through iHeartra so we can get a tax break. So we will probably be on that stand as well. Cuffed.

[Maul]

Never mind. No, get into your bag. Don't say never mind. Now, you there. Don't walk it back, please.

[Rory]

Just. Just bleep the name.

[Maul]

Go.

[Rory]

I'm joking. I'm not here to indict anyone. But yes, the rico, from my understanding, is labels not only just doing payola, which, for those people that don't know payola, is when companies or people will pay deejays or radio executives or they can pay the janitor at the. The radio station, give them money so that someone can play a record. Now, payola has been around since the inception of radio. That's why it's illegal, because they had to monitor it. We've known that's been going on. The bigger part of this radio RICO shit is the money laundering portion of it, which is an extreme version of what Payola would be. Funneling a bunch of money into radio so a record can continue to play. Yes, Payola. But Then when the radio station is setting the price higher than anyone else to funnel it back to the label. Now you are by definition laundering money.

[Maul]

Right?

[Rory]

You're putting money out, it's getting clean, no taxes there. And then it's coming back to you as a prophet. Yeah, that is, that is money laundering. This isn't just little like yo, a deja. Some guy from East New York was hanging outside the Hot 97 office with a brown paper bag and was like, yo, my man's rap. Here's. Here's 20k notices. It's not a. It's not HOV Dame and your brother giving flex champagne baskets or everyone at the radio station. But it's not labels paying for DJ Cruise to go to the Caribbean. This is legitimately a RICO money laundering situation between the three major labels and the biggest radio conglomerate in the world. Plus miss. Plus any other radio station across the country.

[Maul]

Right?

[Rory]

And guys, I heart, I know you're watching. I think you're innocent.

[Maul]

Okay, well, we go.

[Rory]

I think I heart's trying to buy NBC. Something along those lines. I heart, I'm here to stand with you. I don't think you guys are guilty. I could never see a world where Universal, Warner or Sony would ever be in bed with iHeartMedia. I don't see. I don't see a world where that happens.

[Maul]

So just to have, just to have fun here based on something I said. So do you understand the red button a little more now?

[Rory]

Oh, Drake's lawsuit certainly added to this.

[Maul]

Okay.

[Rory]

Significantly from my understanding, it was in play already. But with the lawsuit and people having to now show and reveal things because of the lawsuit, it certainly didn't help the labels or, or I art.

[Maul]

So what does this mean though, for. For music moving forward? What does this mean for artists? What does this mean?

[Rory]

They'll find a fall guy and everything will be business as usual and they'll find a new way to do it.

[Maul]

Right?

[Rory]

It's like any other business. I'm not even mad at the labels or radio. This goes on in any, any genre business. If we want to come down on iHeartMedia in Universal based off paying for some songs, go down to Wall street and see what they do at Chase bank, right? This somebody's gonna be a fault. No, they're gonna find one person.

[Maul]

It's nothing new.

[Rory]

There's not going to be a settlement here. I just think the feds, which is ironic because there's so much going on in the world. I think the feds are kind of bored and are Just running wild with RICO and the fed's aboard. Yeah.

[Maul]

That's interesting with so much going on.

[Rory]

Yeah. Like, listen, we were the first people up here to condemn Puff and believe everybody. I think a lot of that was for headlines and. And to get people up the ladder. Like, oh, I did the Puffy case. It's for headlines. This is going to be the same exact thing. No one's here for justice. They're here for headlines. Yes. I think the feds are. Are bored in a lot of cases because I even think on the side of the feds with. With crime, let's just say in New York with what they do with RICO's with gangs that doesn't get the headlines that they want. Puff gets the headlines. Universal music, I heart that gets the headlines that gets people up the ladder when they do these cases get. Getting fucking. Fucking GS9. Like, that's. Yeah, all right, cool. That's a headline for like a week.

[Maul]

Right?

[Rory]

You saw, even with the young thug thing, like, this is all about headlines. And I think that's what the feds, they have the RICO law, which just allows you to kind of just say whatever. Like, this is just. This is an organization, so anything that happened, now you're guilty of it. And there's no. There's no law that regulates rico, which I think there should be. Yeah.

[Maul]

Regulates rico? What do you mean?

[Rory]

There should be something that I think you have to further prove the criminal organization and the crimes that were involved in it. I do not think YSL is a gang, but according to them, it was a gang. Thug was at the top. He was apparently the leader of the gang. If somebody that's in the gang happens to murder somebody, I'm not responsible for that murder. Now if thug ordered the murder. Now we're talking different. RICO allows. If somebody just happens to claim the flag of your blood set and does some shit on their own, not even under the flag or orders. Now I'm part of this murder. Just because we're in the same gang. There needs to be regulation on rico.

[Damaris]

But you saying regulation on rico. But that's the whole point of the rico.

[Rory]

Like I'm saying they need to. To regulate that because it's a cheat code. All right, let's use the. The Mafia. There's Gambino associates that John got. John Gotti. Don't even know that person's name. Never seen them in his life. Some people just do crimes on their own, but they also just happen to be associated with a gang. You think Gotti is at his house and knows some 21 year old kid that's a Gambino associate that happened to to rob a liquor store that day. No, but now you can add it into a RICO and it's like you gotta prove that this was under my flag.

[Damaris]

But no, but this is the thing though. It's not about. At the end of the day, this person feels so confident doing this because you have provided a community and a culture where this is okay and stamped this gang. And now this person who's connected to your gang has done something whether you ordered it or not. It might not have gotten done if you weren't this big crime boss. Oh no, like you've cultivated this. You are responsible whether you ordered it or not.

[Rory]

I understand RICO to a degree. We'll use the mafia again as an example. Before I mean RICO existed, they just the feds were stupid and didn't know was in the law books. They couldn't get to the boss because the boss would never touch the drugs, the money, wouldn't order anything on the phone. Like you couldn't get to him because they insulated him so much. So they created RICO so they could do that. But then they ran crazy with it and just started adding things that have nothing to do under the flag of this organization. Sometimes people kill people and has nothing to do with the gang that we're in. And now I'm responsible for that murder just because you think I'm the head of this organization.

[Maul]

Pull up rico.

[Rory]

I just think you need to further prove that that more. I don't think RICO is wrong as far as the law. I just think that the lines are so blurred it allows the feds to get away with a lot of bullshit as far as adding charges to people that may have not even been aware of anything that was going on with the people under them.

[Maul]

Like.

[Rory]

And I think we're going to see that more with these types of cases. Because while what's happening with the labels and radio is by definition illegal, this is still white collar. So where do we draw the line? Is the assistant to the PM at the Breakfast Club now responsible because they're in this organization? Where do you draw the line of who?

[Maul]

Well no, it wouldn't be people that just work at the radio station per se. It would be the people that are running the radio station, the people at the labels. It would be that. It wouldn't be the intern that's running to go get bagels and coffee like he has nothing to do.

[Rory]

Let's say I'm a let's say I'm a radio personality. I'm not saying Hot 97 is involved with it. I'm just using Hot 97. Let's say I work at Hot 97 on a morning show and I cut a deal with the president of Atlantic where I am a third party contractor and you are paying me a fee every month. And we know what that fee is for. It is to help promote all Atlantic artists. Be favorable to Atlantic artists. Play more of Atlantic. I know what this is, but my program director doesn't know that. The program director's boss doesn't know that. The owner of Ms. Communications doesn't know that. But I went to the CEO of Atlantic and I took this money. Now EMIS is in a RICO because I did something on my own. That's fucked up. I'd be sitting there as Ms. Communications like, dude, I didn't know that. Rory went and took this back. This is not Paola, money laundering or rico. He went and did that shit by himself.

[Maul]

Yeah, but I think it's bigger than that though. If RICO is handed down, that's because they've done enough investigation, they've gathered enough information.

[Rory]

I'm not saying, I'm saying off RICO where I think it gets fucked up. This is just straight up, I think label to corporation.

[Maul]

Absolutely. So 100%. Yeah. So I think that you know the RICO thing, if the RICO comes down, trust and believe they've done their due diligence. They've investigated, they've gathered enough information over the years. They know exactly what's going on, who did what. Before that even comes to your doorstep.

[Rory]

I loved Shout out to Berg, friend of the show. I forgot who he was talking to. Was it maybe Gillian Wallow when he was telling everybody out of all his records, radio has always paid him out way more than any of you know Berg's records are streamed, I don't know five billion times. He always posts the numbers. They're insane. Said I've made ten times more money because radio pays out more.

[Maul]

There you go. Yeah, I mean listen man, gotta eat, you know what I'm saying? Got bills to pay, man.

[Rory]

And wonder. Wonder some sometimes. And all Drake and Kendrick stands. I'm not talking about this case with them too whatsoever. Have you ever just wondered why certain songs are just like always on the charts? Then you check like the streaming numbers and they ain't even really like that, all that. Yeah, radio. I've always said radio is super important. I don't care if people think radio is dead. Radio is extremely important as far as getting music out there and how it looks perception wise of how you're doing for sure.

[Maul]

Absolutely.

[Rory]

Because those numbers bit more easy to manipulate.

[Maul]

Listen man, we it's gonna be an interesting few at the end end of the months to well rest of the months of the year in regards to this Radio Rico situation that is upon us. But again you know they're gonna just get past this like you said and start it all over again and another 20 years we'll be right back at this again. No warrior.

[Rory]

Now Maul I know you do not have a phone so I am here to let you know that that is probably a device that you need in this day and age.

[Maul]

Bought me one, you got me one.

[Rory]

I mean listen I could find a service just don't tell nobody. For $25 a month you get unlimited talk, text and data forever. And their name is boost mobile.

[Maul]

Plus boost mobile is now legitimate nationwide 5G network.

[Rory]

Were they not before?

[Maul]

I mean I don't know if it was legit but now it's legit. They've invested billions into building 5G towers across the country. Visit boostmobile.com or head to your local Boost store today and get unlimited talk, text and data for 25 DOL a month. Forever. 5G speed is not available in all areas. After 30GB, customers may experience lower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

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[Rory]

Ah, come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.

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[Maul]

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[Rory]

I just pulled up my 2025 predictions. Now, I don't want to give myself the whole bouquet of flowers, but I Think I deserve at least a lily. I said Billboard gets hacked this year. And while they're not getting hacked, Billboard is going to have to open their books as well. With all these cases, you think Billboard's being left out? I'm not saying Billboard did anything illegal. I'm just talking about the place that is collecting these numbers gets hacked. That's why I said I don't deserve the whole bouquet.

[Maul]

There is the hack, but hacked, investigated is two different things.

[Rory]

And I'm not saying Billboard did anything criminal. I'm just thinking they're going to be a character witness in this whole thing.

[Maul]

They just have to answer some questions.

[Rory]

Here's the data.

[Maul]

Yeah, but that's not hacked.

[Rory]

I know. That's why I said I don't deserve the whole thing. But when I said that, I thought somebody was going to figure out how to hack Billboard and we were going to see the numbers that were fudged being revealed.

[Maul]

So you're saying as a result of investigation, we will see.

[Rory]

We will see. That's what I meant by Billboard gets hacked. We are going to see that.

[Maul]

Okay.

[Rory]

It'll just be pulled, the curtain be pulled a little bit on Billboard. I thought a hacker would do it. It'll be the federal government instead.

[Maul]

Yeah, it's no hack. It's like, no, we need to see what's really going on.

[Rory]

And mind you, I didn't see Billboard in any of the paperwork that I saw. But I do again, think if they are the ones collecting a lot of that data and showing it based off radio spins as well. Some. Somebody. Somebody.

[Maul]

You got some explaining to do. Oh, man. Yeah, man. See, that's why I'll be in the house, man. Cause I don't want no RICO coming to my way. I don't. With none of these radio stating no DJs, I don't know nobody. I don't want no problems.

[Rory]

I mean, if you're a radio exec, though, I think that's just part of the business.

[Maul]

Definitely part of the business, for sure. But when the feds get the knocking and start asking questions, y' all thought them Jeffrey files. Y' all thought them Jeffrey tapes was interesting. Wait till y' all hear these tapes. That's gonna hit the net next year. Wait till y' all hear how these execs start telling on each other. Wait till y' all hear. Wait till y' all hear that.

[Rory]

Wait till Tracy from Hot 97 has to go on the stand.

[Maul]

Yeah, wait till you. Wait till you hear that. Wait till you hear that.

[Rory]

I Mean, I. I do think a snitch fest will. Will happen very soon. And what's funny is the people that I think will be telling are also personalities. So it'll be content.

[Maul]

Yeah, definitely. Snitch Palooza is coming next year.

[Rory]

And again, in what I saw, I know the rumors were Flex was cooperating with the feds on this. And that also had something to do with Enough. And Camilo. I don't. I, I. As I'm saying this now, I don't think that's true as of now.

[Maul]

You don't?

[Rory]

But I can see how one and one together can, like, really make two. But, yeah, that was the rumor, and it's on the timeline. So it's. Who knows that Flex has been working and cooperating with the federal government with this payola case, and there was some tie to that with Camilo and. Enough. And I'm not. I'm not saying that whatsoever. I do think that's just a rumor, and it's not true. Now, do I think everybody's gonna start working with him soon? Yeah, I think that's gonna happen. These aren't criminals. These are fucking DJs and radio personalities. Yeah. Nothing to do with this shit.

[Maul]

Well, this is an old tweet from Flex. He said Drake is 100% right. National play per song. Drake don't pay for play. Pop. What is pop?

[Rory]

Chr.

[Maul]

What is that? Radio?

[Damaris]

Yeah, pop slash Christian.

[Maul]

Oh, pop Christian radio, 350k urban radio, 250k mix show, 100k local radio, mix show director, 40k local DJ, 3k to 5k per song. DJs on the radio five days a week. This is why independent artists don't rise to the top. All you artists know I ain't never take a dime from you, your manager, or your labels. Bomb has no price. Ask Israel. Thursday, 7pm oh, no.

[Rory]

We paid for it. My tax dollars.

[Maul]

That's a tweet almost a year ago from Flex.

[Rory]

So I've always heard behind the scenes from a lot of credible sources of people that love Flex and people that hate Flex, that Flex has truly never taken a dollar of payola since the beginning of his career. He has been tried a thousand times on it, and Flex has never taken a dollar. So I do, too. I definitely do. Now, I know we've just been talking about thug and snitching and what's right or wrong. What's the rules here? Because let's say hypothetically. Hypothetically, Flex, I'm not saying you're working with the Fist. Is that A bad thing to not try to clean up radio and payola and something that really only benefits few major label artists. I don't think that Flex is wrong. If that was the case. I'm not saying maybe go tell on like your local DJ that's taking 3K. To me, that's like, all right, it's a little ratchet. But if you're working with the federal government to clean up something that I feel has. Has destroyed radio.

[Maul]

Yeah, what's wrong with radio? Destroy music.

[Rory]

Fair. That too.

[Maul]

Because he clearly says, this is why independent artists don't rise.

[Rory]

Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with Flex saying, I've been in this. This game for 30 years. I'll tell you everything. Let's clean this up.

[Maul]

I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I think having integrity in music, especially if you're a DJ of the culture and, you know, things like that, I respect that. But I'm not gonna sit here and say if he's in the room, you know, saying, oh, yeah, no, he took this and he took. I'm not gonna say that. That's cool. I understand why he would be doing it. You know, he's trying to keep some type of integrity in music and make sure all artists get a fair shot. You know, particular independent artists get a chance to, you know, make it big. So I respect it, but I'm not gonna. I understand it, but I don't respect it. If he is giving. I'm not saying Flex is. We want to make that clear. Not saying Flex is talking to the feds, giving nobody's name. I'm saying if that comes to fruition and it is what he's doing, I understand it. Not going to say I respect it, but I do understand it.

[Rory]

Should I. Should I jam up Rosenberg right now and cash app him a dollar and put in the description payola for off road Sunday nights for a dollar.

[Maul]

Listen, man, I mean, why not? A dollar goes a long way.

[Damaris]

Nah, send 100. Really them up.

[Rory]

No, I don't really. I don't really got it like that right now. Oh, yeah, maybe a dollar's. Can you do cents on. On cash?

[Damaris]

Funny.

[Rory]

Okay, do 50 cents.

[Maul]

A dollar fifty. How much is it to ride the trains now?

[Damaris]

275.

[Maul]

275, 290.

[Damaris]

Oh, damn.

[Maul]

Yo, yo. New York is such a crazy, crazy city. Like they do things like this, like that whole congestion toll shit like this. That has done nothing for traffic. Like, nothing like. And it's like now Everybody's just paying $9 extra just to come into the city, like every day. Like that is. But it's like they know that that's not going to stop people from. I remember when the GW was. I used to. The GW used to be 9 do to cross the bridge. Now it's almost like 20 to cross the GW.

[Rory]

Got him. He'll be behind bars by Monday.

[Maul]

Yeah, we'll have his ass in the Alcatraz.

[Rory]

I got you, Rosenberg.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Have you ever seen Pelham123 with. With Denzel Washington.

[Maul]

Love that movie.

[Rory]

So in that movie, Denzel was like, high ranking. They put him down to, like, the regular guy because he was under investigation for taking money with train contracts. And then John Travolta gets him to admit it. And he went to Japan to go pick which, like, model of train. And he took the money. But he said, that was the train I was going to pick anyways. It didn't influence his decision he was picking that. But if y', all, you know, give me some bread in it, I'll keep that to myself and make it look like that. Is that wrong if a DJ does it? Because if somebody, if a label's trying to pay me for a record, I was already gonna, like, play a record that you like. Yeah. Like, in my head, you don't need to do this. Like, I was gonna play this record, but if you will offer me money, even if it's illegal, I'm not gonna say no to that shit.

[Maul]

You know why that's interesting, though? Because when you think about it, right? If a label sends a. A DJ a record, like, they're essentially leaving it in the DJs hands to have a certain level of taste or ear to hear hit record when he. When he or she hears it. Like, say that. Say the DJ just doesn't know a hit record. Like. And then the label's like, no, like, this is the hit. Like, this is. So it's. It's a slippery thing because it's kind of like, what if that DJ just doesn't understand or hear the record? Like, they don't get it.

[Rory]

But that. I mean, that is. That is rare, though. I think that's actually more specific to. To hip hop because pop radio. Is there DJs that break records, like, even, let's say Hot 97, Power 105, there are only a few DJs that are really coming up with their own sets, per se. Because a lot of that is the program director saying, these are the records you're playing from one to three. It's. It's rare where people like Flex do get the ability to pick. Like when Mr. C would do Lunchtime Rewind. What was that called?

[Maul]

Yeah, Lunchtime Rebound, something like that.

[Rory]

He was able to pick his records because that was specific to that show. And see legendary dj. Most people that are either doing mornings, afternoons, like, you're not. This is. You're getting a list of the records to play. So it's. It's more so that the label and program directors deciding on what is going to be the thing that is going to morph our minds into liking the song. The program directors, like, like, very rarely is there somebody like a Flex that does get to just do their whole set. Like, they'll play what they want. They can break records. Flex, we know has an ear, but that's not in this day and age. No, there's plenty of DJs that are great DJs. Enough. A great DJ. But when he was on with. With Angie at Hot. That slot during the day, like, enough has to. To play the hit records that are. Are given. Like. Which is nothing against enough. That. That's the job in afternoon radio.

[Maul]

The program directors here.

[Rory]

Yeah, here you go. Enough. Of course, enough will mix in certain stuff. But yeah, you're going to have to hear Chris Brown, Busta Rhymes. What's the name of that record? They ran that one.

[Maul]

Look at Me Now.

[Rory]

You're gonna have to look at me now 15 times the next three hours. Like that's just gonna have to happen. So that's not really a DJ thing as far as an ear of a hit. You kind of have to march to those orders when you're under. Especially at iheart, you being that syndicated at least. Emma is a little like Hot 97 is a local radio station at the end of the day. Power 105 is not that anymore. They're under iHeart where that is a strict, strict role of what you're playing and when you're playing it, they don't play with that at all. People atmosphere don't even like hip hop. And they just flex. You could do it, but anybody else. Here's the data. Here's what we agreed upon, man.

[Maul]

Bring some more. Bring some integrity back into the entertainment industry. It. Why not?

[Rory]

I mean, what business has integrity overall?

[Maul]

This business.

[Rory]

No, I'm saying not this business specifically. I'm saying as far as entertainment, banking, construction, which business on earth would you say? Oh yeah, everyone over there, they got it right.

[Maul]

The whole business. Because the price is the price.

[Rory]

I. I'm stumped. I actually think. I think you hoes have more integrity.

[Maul]

Than all of us, the whole business.

[Rory]

I think that's the only, like, cut and dry. This is what it is.

[Maul]

That's her price. She tells you what it is, you pay that price, and you can. You mean, like, do what you.

[Rory]

Yeah, that's the gig. I mean, the only would be some of the customers don't have integrity and try to. Try to harm the women. But that's where you have checks and balances. That's where the pimp comes in and with his integrity, whoops your ass.

[Maul]

I physically. I physically can't pay for. I tried it.

[Rory]

How'd you go about trying it?

[Maul]

Like, I was with a girl. She was like a porn star.

[Rory]

Okay, nice.

[Maul]

And she was like, yo, if you want to have sex with me tonight, here's my price. Like, it's up to you. I physically couldn't do it. Like, I got sick. I was like, so if I just give you money right now, like, we can have. She was like, yeah. I was like, really? So, yeah, you do whatever you want. I was like, whatever I want. I could not do it. I physically could not do it.

[Rory]

I mean, I've told you guys before. It's. It's an ego thing for me. I'm not above it. Like, I don't judge people that pay for pussy. I am just so insecure that, like, I have to think you like me when we're having sex. Like, the transaction.

[Maul]

But is that an insecurity?

[Rory]

Not like. Like, you have to, like, be in love with me. Like, I have to feel like, yo, you want to have sex with me?

[Maul]

Yeah. Not.

[Rory]

Not, like, paying you.

[Maul]

Like.

[Rory]

Yeah, like, that feeling.

[Maul]

I was just like, there's no way that this is a normal thing, but.

[Damaris]

She probably would have. Like, this is the thing. I think because you guys are both attractive men, I think the girls want to fudge you. But, like, because they about they business, it's like. I mean, I like this nigga. I would fuck this nigga for free, but I can't.

[Rory]

And it was like.

[Maul]

It was like around the end of the month. You know how that get.

[Damaris]

It's like when I go on spaces. I be wanting to go on spaces, but I'm like, this feel like podcasting for free. I do this for a living. Like, I. With y'.

[Maul]

All.

[Damaris]

I want to talk to y', all, but now I get paid for this. Like, I feel like that's probably how they feel.

[Rory]

So you're saying the sex workers.

[Maul]

The way to put it, it's like.

[Rory]

The DJs taking Paola for records they would have played anyways. Yeah, like, I would sleep with that guy. But, I mean, if I'm gonna get paid for.

[Maul]

Yeah, yeah, you gonna give me 10 bands?

[Rory]

I'm just gonna. You for free if you're offering money.

[Maul]

I, I, I literally, like, we were laughing at the fact she was like, yeah, you just not a, you're not a john. Like, you're not a trick. I was like, I cannot do it. Like, I was laughing. I was laughing at the fact I was like, yo, this is insane that these are some people's. Like, this is their normal way of interacting with women.

[Rory]

But I've talked with sex workers on that topic before where they've said men have talked themselves out of free. Because the, because the moment a lot of men go and know a woman's a sex worker and, like, start talking to them, and then out of, like, respect, just assume that you got to pay for it. But there's been times this specific girl. Something's like, I was. Would have just this dude. But the moment he brought up money, now, now you're always a trick in my mind for the rest of your life. Like, it switched right away. Like, I was here because I liked you. But the moment somebody say money. Oh, now you trick forever. Like, if he could have just kept his mouth shut, he could have for free.

[Maul]

Yeah, no, I get it, I get it.

[Rory]

But, you know, I mean, I don't know. Is throwing money at strip club. Isn't. Isn't paying for, obviously. But there's. There's still an aspect to it. Small version of payola.

[Maul]

It's not.

[Rory]

That's the local DJ thing that that Flex was talking about.

[Maul]

That's three or five artists go to the radio. They still pay all the money. Like, if the artists go to the radio station, start throwing money at the dj, is that paying for the play? Like, is that paying for the record?

[Rory]

Absolutely.

[Maul]

Is it?

[Rory]

I mean, like, if I'm throwing money.

[Maul]

At you, you're not playing my record.

[Rory]

You know how, like, some people do marketing, like, run into the radio station to have, like, strippers with them to try to perform the. And then money gets thrown. You just walk out and you leave the money there. Like, I mean, yeah, y' all could pick that up. We ain't picking it up.

[Maul]

Yeah, but, like, if I go to a strip club, pretty girl on stage, and I'm throwing money, spending money on her, and then, like, you know, but it's like. It's not even. I don't even like her. I like this other girl. The other girl just see me throw money at the end of the night. The other girl, like, you know, we kind of start talking. We hit it off, we go. We leave strip club or go some, you know, breakfast or whatever. She comes home with me, we have sex.

[Rory]

Technically.

[Maul]

Technically. Did I pay for that pussy because I was throwing money in the strip club?

[Damaris]

Yes.

[Maul]

Nah.

[Damaris]

Because if you wouldn't, you wouldn't.

[Rory]

You see what I'm saying?

[Damaris]

It gets tricky because you wouldn't have gotten that pussy if you wasn't throwing that money in the strip club.

[Maul]

I don't know.

[Rory]

We just.

[Maul]

We will never know.

[Rory]

Okay, but then if I take you to an expensive dinner or even do, like, a fun date, but it costs money, and you want to sleep with me because we did that, is that not the same? Exact.

[Maul]

Yeah. Like, if I take you on a.

[Rory]

Date just because it's not hand to.

[Maul]

Hand, nice restaurant, go get some drinks, you know, that whole thing, and then you come back home and we have sex. Did I pay for, like. Are you selling that cat?

[Damaris]

No, because you both got something out of it because you ate two twice.

[Rory]

Strip club Mac and cheese. And then the real Mac and cheese.

[Damaris]

Chris Brown, you know, y' all heard what he said.

[Maul]

What Chris Brown said, I'd be so tired of y' all not.

[Rory]

Not about what y' all talking about.

[Maul]

Oh, what Chris say? I'm about to say what? You know, I don't be knowing. I start telling me. I'm like, wait, what happened there?

[Rory]

He finally admitted that Damaris and I were right, that Quavo is much bigger than him.

[Maul]

Yeah, right.

[Rory]

He said, everyone compares Michael Jackson, Beyonce, Usher, and Quavo to me, but we're all superstars in our own right.

[Maul]

Yeah, he never said that.

[Damaris]

Yes, he did.

[Maul]

He didn't say people compare. What? Quavo.

[Rory]

What he.

[Damaris]

You added. I didn't hear you add Quavo into it. You're mad annoying.

[Maul]

Yeah, that's something like.

[Rory]

No, he put something up on his IG store, I believe. Can you. You click that, Josh?

[Maul]

He tweeted Honest opinion. Beyonce, Michael Jackson, and Usher are all the best superstars in lanes of their own. I see a lot of podcasts and debates on who's better, and the truth is that we all shine bright in our own way. I'll never say I'm a better anything. I'm just being the best Chris Brown in some way, shape or form. These artists have Influenced me to go hard and never give up. I just want to be recognized for helping people with my gifts.

[Rory]

That's on Piru.

[Maul]

That's a very humble thing for Chris to say, but I'll go on record and say I do believe Chris Brown is a better dancer than Michael Jackson.

[Rory]

I agree.

[Maul]

Actually, all of these other. Usher, Beyonce, like, I don't. You know, I think Chris Brown is the better dancer out of these names. Michael Jackson is obviously he's the apex entertainer. He is the one that everybody, all generations. You see kids now that are maybe 3, 4, 5 years old dressed up like Michael Jackson, dance like Michael. So Michael Jackson is obviously the. The one that all artists and entertainers aspire to kind of be like. But it's okay to have artists that come after that are better vocalists than Michael Jackson, better dancers than Michael. Michael just encompassed the entire thing. The mystique, the aura, the entertaining, just everything all in one is what made Michael Jackson so special. But I do believe Chris Brown is a better dancer than Michael Jackson.

[Rory]

This is. Pardon my age. This is gonna maybe be a stupid question. Did Michael Jackson invent the moonwalk or is.

[Maul]

No, that.

[Rory]

No, he just didn't. Was. He just made it iconic?

[Maul]

He made it iconic. He. He got it from some dancers he was watching on.

[Rory]

So he talks about culturally appropriated it.

[Maul]

No, no, no. It's culture vulture.

[Rory]

Michael was.

[Maul]

No, there was black people that created.

[Rory]

It, and he ended up being white.

[Maul]

They were on Soul Train and. And he saw that move.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Maul]

It was part of, like, the whole ro. When, you know, dancers were doing the whole robot type of thing. And he saw that on, I think on Soul Train, and he just made that a part of his performance. And, you know, obviously his platform was the biggest in the world. So when he did it, that was the first time that many people saw that move.

[Rory]

But I mean, how much stake do you put into iconic choreography versus being the better dancer? Like, I agree with you. If we were in the same place Steve Harvey was doing you got Served, and it's just Michael and Chris in the ring. Yeah, I'm going to take Chris Brown in that regard as far as dancing. Yeah. But as far as iconic choreography, I think Michael and Beyonce are over here, and then Chris Brown and Usher are over here. Like between. Between. Obviously Thriller goes without saying, but like Beyonce with her crazy in love choreography. I remember everyone trying to do that when I was in eighth. Seventh, eighth grade. Single ladies. Like, she has iconic choreography with her dancing. Like that is going to last forever. Same way with Michael I mean, the yo video, I think Chris definitely had iconic, like, people would try and do that choreography. But in the Usher My Way video, I remember that. But do they have their. Their staple as far as dancing goes? Michael Isamo, Chris Brown and Usher as compared. We know Beyonce and Michael Jackson have their staples. Does Chris and like a move, like, move. Anytime Beyonce is on tour and if she's going to perform Single Ladies, people are waiting for that choreography. Like, that's the whole thing.

[Damaris]

Chris Brown. Chris Brown has it with wall to wall. I don't hear nothing but ladies calling yeah and take you down and take.

[Rory]

You down yeah, take you down. Did too. Yeah, yeah. But is it at the level we think that a Single Ladies or Thriller would be?

[Damaris]

Nothing is at the level of Single Ladies.

[Maul]

There would never be anything at the level of Thriller.

[Rory]

Well, obviously, but. But I still think. Not to say Single Ladies is compared to Thriller as far as choreography, but she did check that box of. I have an iconic, iconic choreography dance. I just, I. I feel like Usher and Chris maybe could out dance them, but don't have that.

[Damaris]

Well, that. Well, part of that is because Usher and Chris can out dance them. Their choreography is harder to do for sure.

[Rory]

I mean, so the reason why Single.

[Damaris]

Ladies in Thriller are so. Well, not Thriller, but the reason why Single Ladies is so popular is because the choreographer. I mean, the choreography, like White Housewives at home were at home doing this shit. Like, it's super easy. It's simple and easy to remember. So that's why it got as big as it got.

[Rory]

That's a good point. Because even like when Michael Jackson would do the lean, we like, everyone tries the lean.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

So. Yeah, I hear you. That. That does. That does make sense too. It was very simplified so everyone could. It was like the first TikTok dances. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I get that. Because I mean, as I think Beyonce is up there with Michael, but she can't do a backflip without a running start. And that's something Chris Brown can do.

[Maul]

Beyonce could run 10 minutes and I don't think she could do it back. You mean running start? Like, I don't do that.

[Damaris]

I think my baby could do it back flip. If she tries to put her mind to it.

[Rory]

Beyonce could do it back for sure.

[Maul]

No, we. We can know. We can all.

[Rory]

But Chris Brown doesn't need to work on it.

[Maul]

But I'm just saying right now, if B goes on stage tonight, there will be no backflip. Like, you know, I mean, I'm not saying anything. Beyonce's Amazing. But she not trying to do no backflip tonight on stage.

[Rory]

No, I think Usher in his prime could do a backflip with a running start. I don't know many performers that could just stand there and do a.

[Maul]

Usher has done back Phillips on stage.

[Rory]

Yeah, but he had like two or three steps. I don't think he didn't even travel NBA wise. I'm saying it was a quick run and start.

[Maul]

Usher has a whole set literally on roller skates.

[Rory]

Yeah, that's true.

[Maul]

That. That.

[Rory]

That is crazy to do that.

[Maul]

Like, just doing a whole, you know, a bunch of your records and the choreography. Y' all are all on roller skates. That's incredible. I mean, these are all, you know, to what Usher's. I mean, Chris Brown is saying, these are all the best of the best. When you talk about performers and entertainers, Usher and Chris and Michael Jackson and Beyonce, these are the. These are the top of the pyramids. When you talk about entertainment and, you know, music and dance choreography, things like that. Janet Jackson as well. I mean, her Rhythm Nation video obviously was groundbreaking and changing. Even the one video that she did. What was the name of the song? Is it Miss yous Much? When she was in the dance studio by herself with a chair.

[Damaris]

Pleasure Principal.

[Maul]

Pleasure Principal. That was a iconic video. And it was just her in the video in the dance studio. So, yeah, I mean, I understand what Chris is saying. I think he was being a little humble and not trying to, you know, make it seem like he. Because obviously you don't want to be the person to say, I'm better than anybody, or, you know, you let the. The audience and the. The fans say that. But I will say, you know, just in watching both and being a fan of both entertainers and in regards to him and Michael Jackson, I do think Chris is the better dancer out of Michael. Him and Michael Jackson.

[Rory]

It's not my world, so I could be wrong. But I want justice for choreographers. Like, the way we get these Billboard complex, all these lists with producers. We know every backstory of every Quincy Jones thing with Michael Jackson. Like, is there a list of choreographers? Like, why did they not get as much shine as even engineers get when you get down to the nerdy? Well, because I would like to know.

[Damaris]

Because they still do lg.

[Rory]

I mean, Puff put LG On. Like, that was the most famous one I remember as a kid because she was on the reality show.

[Damaris]

Well, people pay attention to things that apply to them. So while I was gonna say why engineers would be important, to you is because that's what you would care about.

[Rory]

But even like the best producers, 21st century shit, that what we talked about last week. I feel like a casual fan clicked that right away, too. If I, as a. I wouldn't say a casual fan of choreography. I mean, I like dancing, but I don't sit and think about who put it together. I would click that list right away. And that's not even my world. I would love for those people to be highlighted and learn more about it. So that's a huge part of music that just is not talked about.

[Damaris]

But I mean, like, again, like, I. I hear you, but I don't know, maybe it's because I really. I love dancing so much that I'm more like. Sean Bankhead does the majority of people's videos these days. Right. So a lot of the famous choreography that ends up being TikTok dances, like, for example, Cardi B's up. Or I put that on my mama, Victoria Monet.

[Rory]

Like, great choreography. Yes.

[Damaris]

Which became huge. Right? Like that. He did all of that. Shawn Bankhead has been huge with the videos that he's created. As far as, like, I remember all of Janet's choreographers, obviously, because some of them used to be her dancers. And I was, like, obsessed. But there are. You can find that list. But again, that would be up first. That would be something that you would have to pay attention to because the publications and stuff that it's gonna be in might not be something that you're interested in, but the theater kids know about it and for sure.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

You know what I'm saying?

[Rory]

So I'm. I'm interested. That's really why I'm asking, like, did, like, did Michael have a main.

[Maul]

There goes an usher backflip that was.

[Rory]

A backflip with no running start. I. I stand correct.

[Maul]

May, give us your.

[Rory]

Do y' all know how hard it is to stand there and do a backflip?

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Go try. No, no, Go see your bed and go try. Let me see how close.

[Maul]

I'm going to be in the hospital for about a month. If I try to do back. I would knock all this shit over trying to do a back backflip.

[Rory]

Did Michael have, like, a main choreographer? The way Quincy was his main producer? Like, is there something we know he did? He did bad. He did like.

[Maul]

I think he worked with a lot of people on. On a number of projects. I don't know if he had one main choreographer, though.

[Rory]

And I also want to know, like, who. Who's the prince of this dancing. Like, which icon never had a choreographer? Like, if you saw them dance, they came up with it.

[Damaris]

That just doesn't.

[Rory]

That's why I said the Prince of It.

[Damaris]

There's only one song outside of Paula Abdul. I don't think that that tends to happen just because it's. So much choreography is needed, especially for not really music videos, for tours.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

You know what I'm saying? Like, tours. It's like, that's so much choreography. So Michael worked with seven prominent choreographers, but most importantly, Vincent Patterson for Smooth Criminal, the Bad Tour, Michael Peters for Thriller, and Beat It. He has a couple people.

[Rory]

Yeah. Mike worked a few choreography for Thriller and Beat It. Like you Michael Jackson of that.

[Maul]

Yo. The way these kids watch Gracie's Corner, that's the way I watch Thriller. Like, that was my. Gracie's Corner. Like, my mom.

[Rory]

That was my.

[Maul]

No, seriously. My mom had to put the Thriller cassette in, like, my book bag when I went to the babysitters so that she would put that in. That would be the only way I sat and watched TV is watching Thriller.

[Rory]

I showed Amara Toy Story for the first time. You did? And because Amara likes her. Her shows, like the Miss Rachel's, Peppa Pig, Mickey Mouse, Baby Shark, all that. It was the first time she sat for, like, an hour and a half and watched a movie. She was. She was locked in.

[Maul]

Really?

[Rory]

Like, locked in. I've never heard her be that quiet. And that's still in my entire life.

[Damaris]

That's so funny. I, like, I introduced my. My goddaughters to Toy Story, and I didn't think because they have their same movies that they watch over and over, and I didn't think that they would watch it. They're one in three, and they sat and they were, like, into the story, and I was like, okay. Like, classics.

[Rory]

A classic is a classic.

[Maul]

Toy Story is definitely a classic.

[Rory]

Oh, I loved it. Because now, this coming weekend, now we can watch Story two. Like, I have excuses to watch all those movies now because I'm mars into them. Like, even her eyes would, like, light up at certain. Like, I knew she was really locked in. In focus because even during the storyline, she would, like, react to certain parts. I'm like, oh, yeah, you gotta story. You gotta.

[Maul]

Yeah, you gotta.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

Toy Story is mental. Outside of the story being good.

[Maul]

Right.

[Damaris]

Which older kids care about. Toy Story is mentally stimulating for children. The colors are bright enough. The voices are loud. Like, it's. It's mentally stimulating.

[Rory]

I know it's been, like, repurposed and refurbished and all that. But the fact that that was made in 1995 is like, insane. It. I cannot believe in 1995 they made that movie. That's nice. If you just look at everything that was being made at that time. Like what Pixar. That was like revolution. That was like Apple action. Matter of fact, didn't Steve Jobs buy Pixar? That was like. That was like iconic as far as technology goes, of what they did in 95 with Toy Story.

[Maul]

It's a great movie, though.

[Rory]

Great storyline that could come out in 2025 and it would look no different.

[Damaris]

And it was. That was the first Pixar movie.

[Rory]

Yeah. No, Pixar is. Is Apple. Like they revolutionized everything.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Then the fact that they did that at that level for the first time was nuts. And it's like an all star cast.

[Damaris]

Pixar has some of the best, like, children's movies too, because the Incredibles is like one of my personal favorite. Like, Pixar has the good movies like Monsters Inc. All of those are Pixar. They're not Disney.

[Rory]

Yo, Matt. Like. And also imagine them pitching that to Tom Hanks. And I know Castaway was after, but just use it as an example. Like one of my movies, I had to be on a deserted island, lose £80, grow a beard. Had to. Had to carry a movie as one person with no real dialogue. And then they're like, no. You can just sit in an air conditioned studio and just say these lines right here and make like, say it into the mic 15 times. 1. Knock me out in two days. Like, you know, I. Indonesia and an island for six months.

[Maul]

It got paid less on a water diet. Just drinking water every day. That was it. Did he win anything for Castaway?

[Rory]

I would hope so.

[Maul]

No, don't say he had to because we know people that went through crazy transformations for roles and they didn't win.

[Rory]

Castaway has like four lines in it. You know how good of an actor you have to be to carry a movie with no lines?

[Damaris]

He won best actor for Castaway.

[Rory]

I would hope so.

[Damaris]

Oh, no, he got nominated. He did not win at. At the Academy Awards. He got nominated.

[Maul]

He won a Golden Globe for best actor. He didn't get. He didn't get the. Who beat him?

[Rory]

Macklemore. Who. Who beat Tom Hanks and Castaway for.

[Damaris]

Best actor for 2001. I don't know. Let me see.

[Maul]

Somebody got naked for the best actor.

[Damaris]

Best actor.

[Rory]

Halberry Swordfish. Then I.

[Damaris]

And a leading role. Russell Crowe, Gladiator.

[Rory]

Oh, okay, never mind. You know What? I. I kind of stand corrected.

[Maul]

All right, cuz if we talking about visually, it was Toy Story, then it was 300. 3000. That was crazy.

[Damaris]

Gladiator One best picture that year too.

[Rory]

Gladiators. I comfortably would say, wait, it was pro Gladiator.

[Maul]

That's the one, yeah. Oh, I thought you was talking about 3,000.

[Damaris]

No, General.

[Maul]

300. 300 General. That movie was crazy.

[Damaris]

Yeah, he won.

[Rory]

Russell Crowe's in 300.

[Maul]

Not the. Oh, same white guy. It's not Russell Crowe.

[Rory]

That's not the other guy.

[Maul]

It's Russell Crowe. B.

[Rory]

What's the On Watch the Throne when they start naming all the Russells. Russell Brand, Russell Crowe. Yo, Kanye be getting some sick lines off that.

[Maul]

We just allow Gladiator when it makes sense, though.

[Rory]

Yeah, of course.

[Maul]

Yeah, that, that, that's. That's one of the.

[Rory]

No, I stand corrected right away. What could be cast away? Gladiator.

[Maul]

I know. Tom Hanks was like, like, nobody's beating Gladiator that year.

[Damaris]

Yo, can you imagine, like, could you imagine, like coming out like you worked your whole entire life on a movie. Like you put your blood, sweat, tears, everything on this project. It's amazing. Like, it's a.

[Rory]

It's.

[Damaris]

Everybody wants to watch it and then Titanic come out the same year. Boy, I'll be pissed. I would be pissed.

[Rory]

We talked to Neil Brennan, friend of the show, co creators of Chappelle show, also great stand up comedian. When they wrote Half Baked, I think it was the week it opened, it was Titanic. What's the with Cuba Gooden Jr. When he's the agent, I think it was like Titanic, Jerry Maguire. It like Neil started naming all the movies that Half Baked went against and he was like, no wonder we were all blackballed from the end of like, duh. We finally wrote a movie, got distribution. We hated the movie, but all right, cool. It's going out. It's the first time we've ever done it. It's a cult classic movie for sure. But at the time, a lot of cult classics come out and it's not till 15 years later that it starts to like it. Like Scarface bombed at the box office, didn't do anything. He said, we finally get the date and it's Titanic. It's the next thing, it's like, yeah, a studio. Zach never talked to me again until Chappelle Show.

[Maul]

That's just bad.

[Damaris]

Oh, yeah.

[Maul]

Terrible timing.

[Damaris]

Came out around the same time. Best picture. Titanic went against as good as it gets. The full amante. Goodwill hunting.

[Rory]

Oh yeah, Goodwill hunting. Titanic and Goodwill Hunting was the same week as Half Baked.

[Maul]

Oh my God.

[Rory]

We are extremely excited to announce our new presenter sponsor Hard Rock bet.

[Maul]

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[Rory]

Football is back. Hard Rock is the only legal sports book in the state of Florida and is also available in Arizona, Ohio, New Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois and Colorado with more states launching very soon. Ma as New Yorkers, we know all of our family members just moved down to Florida so this will be great for them.

[Maul]

This is absolutely great. You can also play on Hard Rock Bets Online Casino if you are in New Jersey Mall.

[Rory]

You know I'd be in Jersey, I'd be in Jersey. As we gear up for the NFL season, sign up for Hard Rock Bet and make a $5 bet and you'll get $150 in bonus bets if you win. So please head over to Hard Rock Bet, sign up and make your first deposit today.

[Maul]

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[Rory]

Ah, come on.

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[Rory]

This thing is ancient.

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[Maul]

Did you see the Charlie Sheen interview?

[Rory]

Yeah, well, I saw. I mean, I saw the clip.

[Maul]

First of all, Charlie Sheen is the legend. Let's just start. Start there.

[Rory]

Tiger Blood.

[Maul]

Legendary Charlie Sheen.

[Rory]

He was. He was Khaled before Khaled for sure. Like, winning was. Yeah, winning was a thing.

[Maul]

Absolutely. He said that he has. He started having sex with men while he was on crack and says it's.

[Rory]

Fucking liberating to finally talk about now.

[Maul]

I don't know if y' all remember the clip that went viral years ago where there was a crackhead, they was arguing, they was ready to fight, and the dude told him, leave him alone. He was like, I want some pussy, but I'll settle for some butt. I didn't understand.

[Rory]

Just go beat off.

[Maul]

I didn't understand it then. I was like. But now seeing this Charlie Sheen interview, I'm like, oh, crack makes you horny. And you don't care if it's vagina or men, but you just want to have sex.

[Rory]

Crack. Crack is what turned the frogs gay, right?

[Maul]

So he said crack is what started it. That's what. That's where it was born or sparked. And in whatever chunks of time that I was off the pipe trying to navigate that, trying to come to terms with it. Wait, what he said?

[Rory]

Where did that come from? As far as once he was sober, he couldn't figure out why he was fucking dudes. It came from arm and hammer. Like, that's where it came from.

[Maul]

This is on Good Morning America, by the way. This interview. It's on Good Morning America.

[Rory]

Why did that happen? And then just finally being like, so what? Some of it was weird. A lot of it was fun, and life goes on. He told Good Morning America, yo.

[Maul]

He said. He said, it's like. He calls it flipping the menu over, having gay sex.

[Rory]

Don't tell me where the beverages are. Is gay sex.

[Maul]

That's not the same thing, Charlie. Like, don't even compare it to that. That's just not. No, you. So Charlie Sheen is gay? No.

[Rory]

You don't think he's bisexual? We not have. Wait, wait, wait. I didn't say nothing.

[Maul]

I didn't say anything.

[Rory]

You don't think that drugs, specifically crack, can make you do things that you never would have done unless you were on crack?

[Maul]

I think that if you're down to doing crack, you'll do anything.

[Rory]

I don't know about that. I think there's probably a lot of.

[Maul]

If you're smoking crack, I think a.

[Rory]

Majority of crackheads are probably homophobic.

[Maul]

Smoking, you're down to smoking crack. That's not a. That's a person that will do anything.

[Rory]

Crackheads are actually really judgy about other people's lives, lifestyles, which is always the most ironic and funny thing.

[Damaris]

I don't like the way y' all demonize crack.

[Maul]

I'm not saying I've seen the things that people do smoke crack.

[Rory]

I'm not young thug in suggesting that being a snitch and being gay are the same thing. So hear me out and let me land this point. I think there's people that have committed violent crimes that they would have never done, but because they started smoking crack, their mind was altered. And I'm not comparing that to being gay. I'm just saying I don't think crime and gay is the same. I just think drugs can also be gay, though. I mean, before Obama, I think drugs can alter your mind to do something you never would have done, including possibly a bunch of men. Like, I don't know if Richard Pryor just came in the world gay. I think he did a little freebase and just started some dudes in Hollywood.

[Maul]

That's what we different. I think that. I think that crack only enhances what's already inside.

[Damaris]

I know all the time, you can't. Sucking dick is a commitment. I don't.

[Rory]

I. I've never tried.

[Damaris]

There's no drug. There is no drug that can prepare you to hit your knees and suck dick. There's no drug.

[Maul]

There's no drug that can compare you, that could prepare you to hit your knees.

[Damaris]

Like, you gotta. You gotta commit to that shit, bro. Drugs can't make you gay, bro.

[Maul]

Nah, drugs don't make you gay. You gay already.

[Damaris]

It was inside you. You were curious about it.

[Maul]

You was thinking about it.

[Damaris]

You might've been bi, curious. And then the drug hit, and you was like, money.

[Rory]

Like, that's what people do, right? Suck dick for crack, but that's for addiction.

[Maul]

Yo, listen, man, I'm sure they'd much.

[Rory]

Rather, you know, pick up recycled canned goods to get money, but sometimes there's.

[Maul]

A dick there and somebody wants it sucked. So, I mean, sometimes.

[Rory]

Oh, dog says, yo, I got these cheeseburgers. But. All right, so you both don't see the point of, like, maybe drugs could just alter your mind to do something you. You wouldn't have done. That was never even inside you before. I think somebody was never a killer, but when they got some crack in them, they became a killer. But they would have never done that.

[Damaris]

Everybody never done that everybody has. Has killer like in them, though. Everybody is capable of killing. Not everybody capable of sucking dick, but. Or doing anal.

[Maul]

But everybody is capable of killing somebody before I suck dick. That's a fact. That's a fact. I kill his whole room before I suck.

[Rory]

Are you serious?

[Maul]

I will kill all. I will kill everybody in this room before I suck a dick. If.

[Rory]

If someone came and said go.

[Maul]

If somebody came in here and said suck a dick or kill me, I'm.

[Rory]

Going to kill everybody in this room.

[Maul]

Give me the gun. I'm going to kill him with you. I'm not sucking no dick.

[Rory]

Have us all killed before you suck.

[Maul]

A dick for sure. Y' all all got to go for sure. Like Damaris said, nothing can prepare you for that. To look a dick in the face and watch it and watch it and watch it coming towards you. There's no way. Yo, he pe's got to go. It's his time. I can't interfere with the Lord. The Lord said, this man is coming. Yeah, this is. God sent this man here today.

[Rory]

And matter of fact, this would be a sin. God.

[Maul]

I'm not getting in the way of what God has ordained this man to do here today. I'm not getting in the way of that.

[Rory]

I'm not that so. Raven. I can't.

[Damaris]

But maybe God ordained you to suck a dick.

[Maul]

God will. God never woke up and said, today is a day mall going to suck a dick. God has never said that. That. He's never said that.

[Rory]

God would be very bored that day.

[Maul]

God has never said that.

[Rory]

I would look at God like, there's a lot of things going on that need your attention in the world. Yeah, maybe Maul and Dick is not really worth.

[Maul]

It's not. Everybody gotta go. Everybody gotta die. If it's up to me, everybody's not.

[Rory]

But we're so petty. If Maul ended up doing that, we wouldn't even be grateful. We would clown him for sucking dick on the next episode, even though he saved our lives.

[Maul]

Yeah, you gotta. And I gotta live with that. Give me death. Death before dishonor. Give me death.

[Rory]

Yeah, you gotta fall on the sword. You gotta sit on the sword.

[Maul]

Hey, yo. Nah. Kill me, bro. Kill me that.

[Rory]

I want to say something nice, but I feel like you guys are gonna judge me. If there was a. A firing squad with assault rifles at all y', all and the only way to save the four of y' all was for me to suck a dick, I would probably do it.

[Maul]

You're a good friend. You're A good friend. He's a gay friend. I'm not mad at him. I have gay friends, but he's gay.

[Rory]

All you guys died. It would, like, really. It would be a very tragic moment. A lot of trauma. I think I could get through therapy of me sucking the dick. If all of you died and I watched it happen. Yeah. I think that would affect my life way more than, you know. Wait, can I smoke some crack before? All right, yeah. If there's crack on deck with the firing squad, yeah, I do it.

[Maul]

There's no way, bro. There's no way.

[Rory]

I mean, sometimes it's weird. A lot of it was fucking fun. And life goes on. He told Good Morning America, like, look what Charlie said, man. Look what Charlie said.

[Maul]

Nah, fam. A coward dies a thousand deaths, man.

[Rory]

All right, first of all, a man sucking a dick does not make him a coward. Matter of fact, that's the bravest man I've ever met in my life.

[Maul]

It's not.

[Rory]

You've done things I could never do.

[Maul]

Listen, man, I'm just letting y' all know. Don't be.

[Rory]

That's Russell Crowe. And Gladiator is basically the equivalent.

[Maul]

Yo, I'm. Kill me. There's no way around it. God, kill me.

[Rory]

Life is way more important than.

[Maul]

Death is beautiful. Death is inevitable. It's inevitable. We all got to do it. It. We all ain't got to suck a dick, but we all got to die. That's a fact.

[Rory]

I suppose that's true.

[Maul]

That's a fact. It ain't true. It's a fact. We all gotta die. We all ain't gotta suck a dude that.

[Rory]

Oh, we have other stuff on the list, but I don't even know after that if I want to talk about any of this. We'll save the. The cam and dame. Full breakdown, I think, for Patreon. That's something I think I wanted us to get into. You can keep all this. This is promo for Patreon. I want to get into the weeds. Weeds of that. Because you and I probably have a bit more information on that than. That's a Patreon thing. I think it'd be good.

[Damaris]

Let's do it. Let's do a voicemail and get out of here.

[Maul]

You've got mail.

[Rory]

All right. I mean, with that said, do we have voicemails that are sponsored by Boost? I don't know if Boost even wants their name next to the conversation we just had, but sometimes. Sometimes you gotta get boosted.

[Maul]

Yeah, 5G by crack. Unlimited talk, text data, and crack.

[Rory]

If you feel like sucking some dick?

[Voicemail Caller]

About time you brought your ass back down.

[Maul]

Vacation.

[Voicemail Caller]

So I wanted to marry and Rory. Mall can't really talk about this. Cause according to mall, he wouldn't give a. A penny. He wouldn't give her a ham sandwich. And like I said, he wouldn't give her a ghetto sandwich. A ghetto sandwich where he gets sugar meat on there and nothing. Or just ketchup on there or nothing. He wouldn't even do that for a. So it's for Rory, and this is for the Maris. Cause the marriage always say, Rory.

[Rory]

He's all over whatever.

[Voicemail Caller]

So, Rory, you ever had a female that you showed up for her? Y' all had an agreement. Y' all had a situation. You know, you show up for. You do things. Y' all got an arrangement you do outside that arranged agreement and everything. But she don't treat you with the. With, I don't want to say reverence, but she don't treat you how she should in the way you show up for her, you know? Like, she always acting annoyed and like that. Because I got the situation where we've been each other for years, but this get on my nerves. And the reason I can't stop with her, because she see my addiction. God damn it. I love a thick chocolate. I love them so chocolate, they damn near blue. You know what I'm saying? But she be acting annoying, man. We tell her, like, we ain't got to deal with each other. You know that, right? I can go find me something else. You can go find you something else. So the marriage. He ever treated a. That he showed up for you less than you should have. And Rory just in reverse, okay?

[Damaris]

So, first of all, ain't no such thing as less than I should have. Just because. Just because you paying for things and buying things or doing what you say that you're supposed to be doing doesn't mean that you're a good partner. You can be failing in other ways. Like, I think a lot of times men feel like they should be appreciated for the things they do. And then, like, the shit that they don't do, it's just like, yeah, but, like, look at the shit I do do. And it's like, no, but we've had this conversation about loving the person. And when you're dating, like, the way that they need to be loved. And you could be an annoying nigga. You talking about something. She's annoying you. Yeah, you're probably annoying her. That's probably why she treats you like that. You just annoy me in this Call.

[Rory]

But what, like, what does agreement mean me? Because now, now I wish he would have just put me in the mall category. I've never been like, yo, I'll pay your rent if you suck my dick. Like, yeah, I. I've never been in that situation where because I'm paying for something. I just assume. Matter of fact, we've been. If I'm about to start to pay for something. So I. I've never been in that situation. He. He sounds like he was just tricking. And once he stopped tricking, she ain't want him. Am I wrong there? No, he was all over the place. I was a little confused. But I mean, I think that happens in real relationships where, you know, the. The corny 80, 20 rule. Sometimes you're 20, sometimes you're 80, and there's. It balances out and this and that. I've definitely been in relationships where I've been less present and she's been present or opposite it. Like, I've been present. She has been present. That's happened. But that's in a relationship, not more on an agreement of like a. A monetary value of. Of anything. Like, the agreement wasn't, all right, if I continue to pay this or do that, then we are locked in. It was like an actual, like, real relationship. So, yeah, I guess I've been in the situation he's talking about. But the way he's wording it sounds like this is a transaction. So if you want it to continue, keep the transaction. Would you buy a chick a ham sandwich? A ghetto sandwich, like, at anything? Do you think that assessment of you was fairly accurate? Can we just replay just, just, just that part?

[Maul]

I've been to plenty beautiful restaurants with beautiful women in my life, but I.

[Rory]

Just want to get just that part about mall. Let's get it accurate.

[Voicemail Caller]

He's here for the marriage. By the time you brought your ass back.

[Rory]

Dang.

[Voicemail Caller]

She had been vacation.

[Rory]

And then. Yeah.

[Voicemail Caller]

Perspective on this. And Rory. Mall can't really talk about this. Cause according to mall, he wouldn't give a. A penny. He wouldn't give her a ham sandwich. You know what I'm saying? He wouldn't give her a ghetto sandwich. A ghetto sandwich where it's just meat on there and nothing. Or just ketchup on there or nothing. He wouldn't even do that for a. Yeah, for a.

[Maul]

No, but for wouldn't.

[Rory]

You wouldn't. You wouldn't give a. A. A ketchup sandwich?

[Maul]

No. A woman. Yes. A No.

[Damaris]

Y' all parents ever been broke and made like A creative. Sorry. We gave him advice and made, like, a creative description. Like, have y' all ever done that? Like, because he talked about ketchup sandwiches. I know people have eaten, like, sugar sandwiches. Like, was there anything.

[Maul]

If I ate a sugar sandwich in my life, it was by choice. I have never, I would never disrespect my mother and make it even seem like we had, we was down with just bread and sugar. Never happened.

[Rory]

I, I, maybe this is coming from a very privileged position. When people used to talk about sugar sandwiches, I thought it was a running joke. No, I, I know. That's the thing. I've, in my house, we never ate sugar sandwiches.

[Maul]

No. Never had to eat a sugar sandwich.

[Rory]

I wouldn't even think about putting sugar on bread and putting another piece of bread. I would just eat the bread.

[Maul]

Just toast the bread and butter at that point.

[Damaris]

Like, well, I guess you would want something sweet. When we were really poor, my dad used to make, like, he used to make these cookies out of, like, just apples and like, oats. I don't know how he did it, but they were like, so good. But I didn't realize till I older, like, oh, that was poverty.

[Rory]

I mean, I could turn ramen noodles into some. That you think you're in the East Village eating, like, same. Yeah. I can make a, a Ramen pack for 10 bucks, last a month, and this is going to be gourmet. When you're poor, you know how to do that. That, But a sugar sandwich. A, a ketchup sandwich.

[Damaris]

Yes.

[Maul]

Yeah, I'm never, we, we just was never down to that. I'm sorry.

[Rory]

Like, I never got that from a privileged pie.

[Maul]

Yeah, Like, I don't know.

[Rory]

I used to think people were joking when they were like, nah, I ate sugar stuff. Like, why would you do that?

[Maul]

Yeah, I'm just, Was never, we was never down to just bread and sugar. Like, it never got that bad.

[Rory]

And I mean, I, I guess with certain government assistant, you get, you know, milk, butter, cheese, bread. Just make a grilled cheese, man.

[Maul]

Like I said, it never got that bad. No, not saying wasn't no public assistance. None of that. It just, it never got that bad.

[Rory]

Somehow my mom is on public assistance now, and I have no idea how she did that. Oh, she becoming to my crib with, with because she has to, like, buy certain.

[Maul]

Because she's retired. Right?

[Rory]

Yeah, but it's, yeah, it has something to do with her, her diabetes and her medical, like, like, she be coming to my house with, like, six tubes of toothpaste. She's Like, I just got. I gotta spend this money or.

[Maul]

Yeah, they give them the card. You gotta run it up now.

[Rory]

You wanna get on food stamps?

[Maul]

I love old people like that. Like, nah, why you go take my card to go to Whole Foods? Give me that shit. Hell yeah, I'm going.

[Damaris]

Does Whole Foods except food stamps.

[Maul]

What?

[Rory]

Yeah, of course.

[Damaris]

Oh, damn. I need to sign up.

[Maul]

Hell yeah. It's not food stamps. Ebt.

[Rory]

Oh, yeah. TBT cards.

[Maul]

It's not this. Y'.

[Rory]

All.

[Maul]

Y' all don't even. Y' all don't. Y' all never. Y' all never went to the store with food stamps. Y' all don't even know what that is.

[Rory]

No, I never did.

[Maul]

Y' all way too young for that.

[Rory]

At. Yeah, well, no, I remember food stamps, but I. My first job was at, like, a local grocery store. Not a big one. Like a Mom and pop type thing. That was the first year that they switched over to the EBT card because, remember, I had to learn how to do that whole thing. And it would always be funny of the. The people that would either whisper EBT or the people that would just proudly yell it because you would, you know, ask payment. Some people be like, you know, they want to is ebt.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Then there'd be some. Some people, they're not even in line yet. Like, yo, mine's ebt.

[Maul]

Like, okay, My mom's had food stamps and wasn't on public assistance. People used to sell their food stamps.

[Rory]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Maul]

And then my mom sent me to the store with the food stamps. The homies work there now. Think we on welfare. Like, I'm like, my mom's keep. Some lady she know always saw her food stamps, she like, yeah, it. Why not? Not because it was obviously cheaper.

[Rory]

Yeah, you're coming out better if you're giving cash for those. Budget a grocery bill. Yeah, I'm buying food stamps.

[Maul]

Yeah. But now my homie is the one that's bagging the groceries, and he see me handing the lady food stamps. Now when he get off and go back to the block, guess who's on welfare? Mall.

[Rory]

She put the stamp on his forehead.

[Maul]

Yeah. Now I'm outside. I gotta fight to prove you know what I'm saying? Nah, we ain't on no public. Like, now I gotta fight everybody else up.

[Damaris]

Yo, when I discovered, like, discover your poor as a kid, like, by, like, other kids making fun of you. Cuz, like, they was like, oh, you get, like, reduced lunch. You get free lunch. Was clowning me. I'm like, I thought that was cool. Oh, you're poor.

[Maul]

Oh, you have to eat here. You have to come here early and get.

[Damaris]

Reduce. Like, damn, you don't pay for your lunch. Like, no O.

[Maul]

It wouldn't be a problem. School was better though. Like, it wouldn't have been a problem.

[Rory]

Elementary school had reduced lunch. But like everybody. I have to ask my mom of how they. I didn't need to be on reduced lunch whatsoever. I don't know how she. She moved that whole.

[Maul]

It's called work the system. Work the system.

[Rory]

And it was like you really weren't even getting that much off on it. Like it was like two, three dollars.

[Maul]

I wouldn't mind if the school. If the school lunch or the school food in America was like up to the standards of other countries. I wouldn't be mad at that. But like, this is terrible that they feed us here. Like. Like who's eating tater tots and chocolate milk at 8 in the morning?

[Damaris]

The turkey surprise still fire. I don't care what nobody say that turkey with that gravy with that mashed potato hit as a kid. I'm sorry.

[Maul]

That box. That box. That powder. Them powdered potatoes in that box.

[Damaris]

Yeah, our shit. I don't think our shits was powder. I don't know.

[Maul]

You think somebody was mashing potatoes back, baby? D, I got news for you. It wasn't a potato in your school. No, that was a box and water.

[Damaris]

They were bussing.

[Maul]

That's all that shit was. That wasn't real eggs. Oh, that was box.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

Oh, I don't eat people eggs like in real life. I'm damn sure not eating no school eggs.

[Maul]

Yeah. You ever go. You never went back in that little. In the back of the cafeteria. Keep going to go in the stock room.

[Rory]

You see, my favorite was the nasty personal pizza. And then they tried to put on the side iceberg.

[Maul]

Let us all.

[Rory]

Oh, my God. That's not. That's probably. That's probably worse for you than the pizza. That dirty ass lettuce.

[Maul]

Yo, school food in America is crazy, bro. It's insane.

[Rory]

I mean, Damaris might remember. I don't know if peach because we're a few years apart when they added spicy chickens into the mix when I was in high school.

[Maul]

Oh, my God, you're a pigeon.

[Rory]

Shit. Had my asshole burning like Tabasco. That shit was.

[Maul]

Nah, I was happy.

[Rory]

I see them shits every day.

[Maul]

I was happy when I finally went to like a public high school. And then we could go outside for lunch. Lunch. That was the greatest.

[Rory]

We only do that junior and senior year or. Yeah, because freshman, sophomore, we couldn't.

[Maul]

No, we did as a freshman. We was able to go outside.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Maul]

Blimpy Subway, McDonald's, Chinese food. I was eating all that on the app. All of that. What? I couldn't wait to go outside and get food. I was never with school food. Never was never a fan.

[Rory]

But I mean, they had. I'm sure there's a doc about it, but like, imagine pumping all that like sodium and terrible food into a kid and then he has two more classes after that. Like he's gonna pay attention to.

[Maul]

His stomach is all up.

[Rory]

His whole brain scrambled after that.

[Maul]

He gotta take a His stomach.

[Rory]

Now you yelling at him for not paying attention.

[Maul]

He trying to focus on. Not on himself. Are you mad that he can't count?

[Rory]

But that was always in high school. They used to. I don't know if it was a rumor or theory or whatever, but in retrospect, it was probably true. Like the. They would purposely put in public school lunches was so you would. To get it out your system so they wouldn't be liable for anything that they're feeding you. Like, get that. Flush that out. Because if that shit stay in your stomach.

[Maul]

I don't believe that that was the.

[Rory]

You know, that was. It was around the same time that everyone thought Lil Kim was getting her pumic stumped.

[Damaris]

Stumped.

[Rory]

Pumic stumped. And Sierra's a man.

[Maul]

Get your pumic stumped to marriage. The marriage. That's your problem. Get your pumic stomped. Listen, your pumic stomped.

[Rory]

Listen, like when. When big boy rapped. I. I can dick your. So whatever the he. He flipped it on. It's cool, man.

[Maul]

What?

[Rory]

You're not a hip hop dude.

[Damaris]

He's sleepy.

[Rory]

He ate school lunch. I ate school lunch. I am very sleepy, by the way.

[Maul]

All right, well, let's get out of here, cuz you sleep.

[Rory]

No, I have to go right to Rock Nation.

[Maul]

I got to meet.

[Rory]

Like, I literally have to leave very soon.

[Maul]

All right, cool.

[Damaris]

Well, shout out to Rock Nation artist.

[Maul]

They.

[Rory]

I got to go get cursed out by. By Rock Nation, which should be fun. Fun for what? But I mean, I'm just gonna yell outside that they'll crumble. Yeah, you won't see the last of me. I know Tory Lanez, Pops. I love Roc Nation. They're not involved in the payload.

[Maul]

Shout out to Roc Nation. Everybody up there. I will talk to y' all soon. Be safe. Be blessed. I'm the. He's just ginger. Don't eat school lunch. No worrying now.

[Rory]

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[Rory]

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[Rory]

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[Maul]

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[Damaris]

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[Damaris]

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[Rory]

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[Rory]

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[Rory]

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[Rory]

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[Rory]

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[Maul]

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[Damaris]

This is an iHeart podcast.