Episode 439 | Underrated

Summary

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New Rory & Mal – Episode 439 | "Underrated"

Date: January 8, 2026
Hosts: Pete & Ginger
Episode Summary by Theme and Timestamps

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Overview

Main Theme:
This episode dives deep into hip-hop's most underrated (and occasionally overrated) rappers. Pete and Ginger debate legacy, criteria for GOAT status, city-by-city MC rankings, and the effect of career choices on legacy—sprinkling personal anecdotes and barbershop-style banter throughout. The conversation weaves in and out of rankings, hot takes on Andre 3000, Fab, Banks, Snoop, Luda, and more—with big-picture questions about what makes someone “underrated” or a “legend.”

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Segment Breakdown

1. Tabloid Scandals and NBA Players

(02:04–07:48)

• Rumor talk kicks off with Zion Williamson’s baby drama, and the comedic absurdity of celebrity OnlyFans DM leaks.
• Pete theorizes on whether NBA players’ patterns with sex workers suggest an underlying “addiction,” asking:

  “If you just directly are obsessed with sex workers specifically...maybe there’s something tied to this that could be an addiction problem.” (03:01, Pete)

• Ginger counters with nuance about youth and wealth, noting the real issue is starting families without intention:

  “Maybe he doesn't want a serious relationship. Maybe he just wants to, you know, have fun with different beautiful women...But I think being young, rich, and wanting to have sex with beautiful women, I don't think that that's calls for rehab.” (03:33, Ginger)

• They riff on public vs. private choices and how generational access has changed cultural expectations.

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2. Jadakiss vs. Fabolous: Who’s More “Underrated”?

(07:54–16:19)

• Revisiting a viral debate from the previous episode: is Jada better than Fab, and why doesn’t Fab get “legend” status?
• Pete marvels at the staying power:

  “I still think Jada may be a better rapper, but I don’t know.” (08:29, Pete)

• Ginger insists Fab is criminally underrated:

  “We don’t speak about Fab...the way we should. We don’t champion Fab the way I think it deserves.” (08:45, Ginger)

• They praise Fab’s 25+ year career, mixtape classics, and continued demand, comparing him to legends of other genres who enjoy sustained relevance.

Memorable Quote

“I don't think I've ever heard anybody call Fab a legend...I think that’s what bothers me.” (11:14, Ginger)

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3. NYC Rappers: Top Fives and Regional Bias

(16:19–24:18)

• Discussion shifts to how artist “mystique” and accessibility affect legend status.
• Queens and Brooklyn top-five debates unfold—highlighting the difficulty of narrowing down the all-time greats:
  • “Queens is a tough one to put together, though.” (23:34, Pete)
• Pete personally ranks Lloyd Banks top three from Queens, stirring friendly controversy:

  “Banks is top three in Queens. To me personally.” (20:37, Pete)

• The back-and-forth examines how generational tastes, streaming data, and neighborhood pride color "best ever" lists.

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4. Underrated Rapper Hall of Fame

(24:23–35:19)

• The hosts and IG commenters mention overlooked names: AZ, Inspektah Deck, Chamillionaire, Beanie Sigel, Young Chris, Petey Crack, Sheek Louch, Cool G Rap, Cormega, Redman, ESG, Boosie Badazz, Obie Trice, Stat Quo, Nature, Ludacris.
• Discussion of Luda’s run (“Back for the First Time”, “Word of Mouf”, and “Chicken & Beer”) (33:16):

  “If you get into his first few albums, Ludacris's discography...might be underrated.” (33:23, Ginger)

• Comparison of Luda and Fab’s career arc—both are “underrated” city legends who sometimes get left out of “best” lists.

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5. The Andre 3000 Conundrum

(46:35–57:58)

• Ginger boldly claims Andre 3000 is “overrated” for getting GOAT status without a solo rap album:

  “The most overrated rapper to me… Andre 3000, only because he never put out a solo rap project, and he gets goat status.” (47:05, Ginger)

• Pete and Ginger dissect the validity of rating rappers based on solo output, comparing to other genres and artists (Biggie, Prodigy, Lauryn Hill).
• They stress three stacks’ influence—despite Ginger’s insistence:

  “You have to have a solo project. We have to just see what you sound like, what you look like, what you do on your own.” (49:09, Ginger)

• Pete pushes back with minutes-rapped and impact arguments, referencing specific OutKast and solo verses.

Notable Moment

“A Day in the Life of Andre Benjamin...that song is better than most y’all’s solo rap albums.” (58:42, Pete)

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6. Solo Output, Legacy & Modern Rap Output

(59:02–61:41)

• They debate whether high “output” enhances or diminishes an artist’s legacy.
• Pete: “I give more stats to the artists...that have a very high output at the legend status that they are.”
• They agree: more albums can risk diluting quality, but infrequent, perfect projects (e.g., Frank Ocean) earn respect.

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7. Overrated/Underrated: Wayne, Em, and Snoop’s Unlimited Output

(65:54–74:12)

• Wayne’s endless tapes get critiqued:

  “Sometimes it can lead to what we thought was a classic discography…now we’re leaning into more bad albums than we are good ones.” (61:00, Pete)

• Snoop Dogg’s discography size (45+ projects) leads to playful awe rather than critique:

  “Snoop is a vampire...he’s 892 years old.” (72:58, Ginger)

• Ginger notes Snoop’s mainstream crossover (Martha Stewart collabs, NBA commentary) as evidence of an unparalleled career arc.

Notable Quote

“Snoop Dogg is an incredible icon.” (74:53, Ginger)

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8. Legacy, Posthumous Albums, and Morality

(62:29–65:49)

• Debate over “should you participate in a posthumous album?” Ginger says it depends on personal connection:

  “It would depend on my relationship and how close of proximity I was to the artist...” (64:16, Ginger)

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9. Hip-Hop’s Most Untouchable Intros

(69:35–72:43)

• Hilarious run-through rap’s most basic, but iconic, opening lines. Snoop’s “1, 2, 3 and to the 4” gets roasted:

  “We would kill any other rapper if they started a verse like that.” (69:35, Ginger)

• Ginger admits, “It’s basic but…incredible way to start a verse.” (70:41)

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Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps & Attribution)

• “I don't think I've ever heard anybody call Fab a legend...I think that's what bothers me.” — Ginger (11:14)
• “Banks is top three in Queens. To me personally.” — Pete (20:37)
• “The most overrated rapper to me… Andre 3000, only because he never put out a solo rap project, and he gets goat status.” — Ginger (47:05)
• “A Day in the Life of Andre Benjamin...that song is better than most y’all’s solo rap albums.” — Pete (58:42)
• “Snoop is a vampire...he's 892 years old.” — Ginger (72:58)
• “Snoop Dogg is an incredible icon.” — Ginger (74:53)

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Episode Highlights & Tone

• Tone: Playful, knowledgeable, barbershop banter, opinionated but thoughtful.
• The hosts push each other, often disagree but listen—peppering the episode with pop culture references and personal nostalgia.
• “Underrated” isn’t just about technical skill—it’s about city pride, output, adaptability, and audience memory.
• The “criteria” for both overrated and legendary are constantly shifting; the episode is as much about how we rank as who we rank.

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Essential Takeaways

• Legacy is complicated: Should artist output quantity matter more than sheer skill or impact? Can GOAT status exist without a solo album?
• Regional bias is real: Generational and neighborhood differences hugely impact “top five” debates.
• Hip-hop history is ongoing: The episode stresses that lists are living debates, shaped by culture, nostalgia, and Twitter more than anything absolute.
• Snoop, Fab, Luda, Andre 3000: All “underrated” for different reasons—misunderstood, overlooked, overshadowed, or simply taken for granted.

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Transcript

[Pete]

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[Ginger]

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[Ginger]

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[Pete]

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[Pete]

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[DJ Hester Prynne]

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[Pete]

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[Pete]

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[Ginger]

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[Pete]

But then, right before trial, he was found dead, leaving countless questions behind.

[Ginger]

He couldn't have done this alone. I'm not gonna say everyone in the department knew, but he's just one of many.

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[Pete]

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[DJ Hester Prynne]

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[Pete]

The volume new in important news only. Fans motto claims New Orleans Pelicans player Zion Williams has fathered her child. What's up with your man?

[Ginger]

My man? That's not my. I don't know him.

[Pete]

I mean, I'm not mad at anyone that has a type of Zion.

[Ginger]

He has a type. Is that real or was that just like.

[Pete]

Here's the thing, I don't know, but I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go with. Probably.

[Ginger]

They'd be posting fake, like, DMS from him, like, trying to holl at, like, the most random, like, celebs. And it's like, that's not. People think it's real. It's not real. So I just don't know if that information is real.

[Pete]

Yeah, I'm gonna go with yes. Just based off patterns.

[Ginger]

Okay. Like, shout out my Gucci. Shout out my Zion.

[Pete]

Do you think that's something that, like, may need rehab?

[Ginger]

What going on? OnlyFans?

[Pete]

Well, I mean, I think anything Access could probably need to go to rehab. But if. I'm not saying this about Zion, because everything could be false in the. The headlines. But if you just directly are obsessed with sex workers specifically and are constantly being exposed for either getting them pregnant or you're all in their dm, like, at some point, you think maybe there's something tied to this that could be an addiction problem. Like, you're not just, like, out here dating. You're finding a specific type of woman for a specific type of reason, which always ends up getting you jammed up.

[Ginger]

Well, I mean, you don't want to. There's nothing wrong with a woman doing OnlyFans if that's the content she wants to create. No, I'm just saying, like, I'm not saying that. Onlyfans creators. Zion is young, he's rich. Maybe he doesn't want a serious relationship. Maybe he just wants to, you know, have fun with different beautiful women. I think impregnating these women that you have no intentions on being a family with and raising children and just paying child support, I think that's an issue. But I think being young, rich, and wanting to have sex with beautiful women, I don't think that that's calls for rehab. Now, again, creating families and children and not being there for children and just thinking that child support money is gonna be enough for a child, I think that's a problem. I think that when it gets to that. Because doesn't he have a. He has another child, right? With another. Was it. What was the Mariah Mills thing? Was she pregnant or.

[Pete]

I thought, did he have a baby.

[Ginger]

On her and she was mad and something like that. It was something weird like that.

[Pete]

She was a bit like One flew over the cuckoo's nest, put the cuckoo back in the clock type of person. But a lot of the stuff I think she said was probably true. And I do think Zion really did wife that girl. Like you saying you just are fudgeing sex workers and keeping it moving. No, he liked that girl, which is fine. There's nothing wrong.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Pete]

But I don't want to even make it just a onlyfans or sex worker thing, because that's not really what I'm saying. If your man was, like, only targeting bank tellers, like, that's his. He only fucks women that work at the bank, you'd probably have some questions of like, oh, yeah, I don't know if it's just you're targeting attractive women.

[Ginger]

Like, are you about to go. Are you about to go on a crazy spree?

[Pete]

There has to be a reason why you're doing this. That's what I'm getting at with, because we see shit. Rumors of James Harden, a bunch of NBA players that we can see the type of IG esque stereotype women that they go after. But that looks more like you may have a sex addiction for chicks with fat asses and big lips. This, like, the only thing every woman has in common in all of these rumors is that they are prostitutes.

[Ginger]

So, I mean, young, rich, you just want to pay for it and kind of like, just have fun. Like, you know, that's. Again, I don't. I don't even think Zion is 25 yet. Is he, like. He might not even be 25, 26, maybe.

[Pete]

That range. Yeah, I'm not making this a Zion thing. I just, I think with certain patterns.

[Ginger]

I think when you're young, you should.

[Pete]

Ask some questions of like, yeah, but not.

[Ginger]

Not when somebody's young as Zion is and has the money that Zion has. It's like he's having fun. Like, you know, now if he's approaching retirement and still doing that, it's like, all right, bro, you all right? But being like in your 20s and rich and being on OnlyFans and dating OnlyFans girls is like, I don't think there's nothing wrong. But again, I just think that when you start having these families and children or with different multiple women, I don't think it's healthy. I just think it's a little unhealthy to do that.

[Pete]

And I don't know what that kinker addiction could be, but I still think if we see a woman just targeting pro athletes, they have nothing really in common outside of money and fame. You'd be like, I know what that woman wants. Yeah, money. So I'm just curious what the people that just go after this type of woman at all times after it's backfired on them? God knows how many times in public.

[Ginger]

You have an issue. That's where young comes in at. He's young. He's young. He don't know yet. He don't get it.

[Pete]

I thought the point of paying sex workers was for them to be quiet. Yes, but I thought that was the whole point of that.

[Ginger]

But if you're having children with them, you can't expect them to Be quiet about that.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

You know what I'm saying?

[Pete]

Like, you know some Ralph Ciporetto.

[Ginger]

Yeah, like, that's what I'm saying. Like, once you start having children with these women, it's like, okay, she's gonna want child support and help raising her. This child.

[Pete]

Like, man, Nancy Reagan did it. You. You can turn them around.

[Ginger]

I don't know about that one. Different, different culture.

[Pete]

Trump did it. Reagan. A lot of people have turned different. Turn their queens around.

[Ginger]

Different culture.

[Pete]

True.

[Ginger]

See? Different culture, though.

[Pete]

I feel like America has entered that. There's mail order brides. That's domestic. US, like, it's not a FedEx International thing. You can now get a mail order bride, like, in the States. We've become that. That culture for sure.

[Ginger]

Absolutely.

[Pete]

And Zion's leading. Leading the charge.

[Ginger]

Leading the charge. This is starting forward. Starting forward. Zion Williams.

[Pete]

I didn't think this. This Jada and Fab thing from our last episode would get as much legs as it did, which made me very happy.

[Ginger]

I never know where the legs are gonna go. Never.

[Pete]

And here's the thing, because I thought.

[Ginger]

It was on sex workers, but apparently the legs are everywhere.

[Pete]

I mean, of course I still think people care about music and debating about music on the Internet, but the Internet has shamed New Yorkers for so long to tell us that nobody gives a fuck about our rappers but us. That's where I was like, oh, well, I mean, this is just a local conversation. This shit got more legs than fucking Drake and Kendrick.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Pete]

Like, they were debating in here, which. Which love to see. It didn't really skip. People brought up some good points, but it didn't really skew my perception. I still think Jada may be a better rapper, but I don't know.

[Ginger]

No, I agree with you there. I think Jada is a better rapper than Fab. I just think that Fab is criminally underrated. And that's where the conversation I was trying to take it, it was just like, bro, we don't speak about Fab. I think the way we should. We don't champion Fab the way I think it deserves. Somebody was actively putting out music in the late 90s and then still being as relevant as he is today, we talking about over 25 years. That's not easy for a lot of these rappers to do.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

And, you know, we know if Fab, if it's. And not only has he been putting out, you know, and been active and putting out music in so long, the fact that there's still a demand, like people still want soul tapes and still want, you know, summertime shootouts and want a new Fab album. Like, for you to still be in demand like that with your fan base 25 years later, that speaks volumes and that speaks to your craft. And I think that that's something that people should speak to more. Like, whether you have Fab again as just New York rappers, if you have Fab in your top five, 10, 20, whatever, that's all subjective. I just think that collectively, people need to really start identifying the fact that Fab has been out for so many years. He's put out so many dope bars, songs, mixtapes, you know, good, good albums. And, you know, he's still very much relevant so many years later. You know, just look at the rest of the landscape of rappers world. You know that, like, that does not happen for 25, 26 years.

[Pete]

Like, kiss too. Like, yeah, but that's early 90s.

[Ginger]

Started releasing very deservingly.

[Pete]

Still very much relevant today. Whether he's podcasting, I still think people want to hear new music from Jada, but also he's in that realm, which I guess we don't really honor in hip hop the way maybe rock and roll does. Like, Versus made Jada even more relevant off the material already put out. Like, Bruce Springsteen's always going to be relevant every year because he sings born in the USA at MetLife.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Pete]

And everyone champions the back catalog of the older statesmen of other genres, where it's like, no one goes like, nah, they not relevant. Kiss is not relevant. But I thought Versus was actually great with that because we saw not Jada have like, a new career per se, but he got the flowers and recognition he deserved for his back catalog, which I think, you know, launched into some of the podcast stuff or, you know, them doing a tour. I just think that was very helpful for Jada just to prove his longevity.

[Ginger]

You know what? I think it is, too. I don't think I've ever heard anybody call Fab a legend.

[Pete]

Okay.

[Ginger]

I think that's what. That's what bothers me. Like, I don't think I hear people say, yo, Fab is a legend. The way they kind of put that legend tag on other MCs and rappers. It's like, bro, 26 years, 27, maybe longer than 26 years Fab's been putting out music.

[Pete]

I don't think you'll find someone in my age group in the Northeast that wouldn't say that that's a rap fan.

[Ginger]

I think that wouldn't say that would.

[Pete]

All Say that Fab is a legend.

[Ginger]

No, I think you would say that's.

[Pete]

A very specific group.

[Ginger]

I think you would say it if somebody brought the conversation to you.

[Pete]

Oh, but I wouldn't just be running around.

[Ginger]

But you know how the same way you be like, we go, yo, Jada, legend, Nas, Legend. I think Fab belongs in that conversation.

[Pete]

I disagree.

[Ginger]

I'm not saying he's as great as a rapper, as a J or Nas, but when we start throwing out the legend hats and putting them in the ring, it's like, bro, y' all gotta start looking at fab and saying Fab's name. Or like 27 years, maybe even 28 years of putting out music.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

And like today, I'm talking about 20, 26. If Fab drops a summertime shootout or a soul tape, people are gonna go crazy about it. That's legend. That's legendary shit. That's legacy status.

[Pete]

Do you think if Fab just randomly announces one night only Madison Square Garden, he sells it up?

[Ginger]

Without a doubt.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

I saw a boogie do it.

[Pete]

True. Yeah. But I do think there'd be a lot of people that would think about that and be like, I don't know if that fab would 1000% sell out the Garden.

[Ginger]

Without a doubt.

[Pete]

But I guarantee you there will be a lot of people in the comments or even people you speak to that are of. Are. Are aware of who Fab is would be like, I don't know, bro. He may need to be Fab and friends. I mean, speaking to your point that I don't think Fab gets the. The. The just dude that, that he does.

[Ginger]

I mean, to put on a good.

[Pete]

Because you should say right away I was outselling the Garden, like, bring friends. Well, obviously what I'm saying, I'm not saying on the. The flyer, just Fab. Oh, yeah, no, we already know Fab's bringing it. Right. But I agree. But I think a lot of people would say no, no.

[Ginger]

And that's the issue I have.

[Pete]

What's the guard? 18,000.

[Ginger]

You don't think Fab, if he has a show one night only in New York City, Madison Garden is. That's not going to. 18, 000 people are not going to go to that.

[Pete]

I mean, I think they would.

[Ginger]

Absolutely.

[Pete]

Okay. Does Kiss sell out the Garden solo?

[Ginger]

I'm going to say yes, but I'm not going to say that confidently.

[Pete]

It would depend how it was promoted, I guess. I think the angle of how it was promoted, I think like if he was promoting running through I Kiss the Death album. Like, it would have to have some type of theme promotion to it. I feel like. Okay, because I. But I don't know. I mean, there's really not much difference between Kiss and Fab, I feel, as fans, so to say, without question, Fab selling it out. I feel like you should be able to say the same with Kiss.

[Ginger]

But it's the music.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

It's the songs. You know what I mean? I think more women show up to see a Fab show than a Jada show.

[Pete]

How many nights do you think Fab could do at Barclays?

[Ginger]

Oh, my God. He can get residency. It could be him and the Nets. When the Nets go on like, they roast.

[Pete]

If you're listening, please do that.

[Ginger]

Yeah. 100% like Fab in the Nets. Absolutely.

[Pete]

Yeah. And it'd probably be the same group of Brooklyn people every day. It wouldn't like. It wouldn't be new fans.

[Ginger]

Yeah, we going here. We going. You know where we going tonight? Back to the Barclays.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

Like, I. You know, and I love.

[Pete]

Oh, and the amount of, like, scam tickets the Barclays after night one would be like, why are we in the red? We just sold out a show. Did everyone get in for free?

[Ginger]

What? It would definitely be a problem. Absolutely.

[Pete]

How did they sneak all these empty Casamigos bottles in here?

[Ginger]

The bar made what? Like, that was all we did last night.

[Pete]

Like, looking at the ticket price of everything, having a. A PayPal return to send this, like, all right, cool, we'll eat it. But let's see what the bar did.

[Ginger]

Let's see what the bar did. 800.

[Pete]

$800 at the Barclays Center.

[Ginger]

$800 at the bar.

[Pete]

Holy shit. Now, Fab at the Barclays would. Would be great.

[Ginger]

Yeah. But that's all I was talking to, man. And I love having that conversation. I saw some people jumped in the comment section, and some agreed, some disagreed. Because I said I feel like Fab is the most underrated rapper ever. And I do feel like that because, again, when we just be having these conversations, I do a lot of listening and see a lot of lists and, you know, and I'm just like, Fab don't get the. He don't get the notoriety and the talk that I think he deserves, man. But it was dope.

[Pete]

Cause he was one of the first rappers that didn't have a crazy mystique because, like, times were changing. Whereas it used to be rapper. Put an album out, do a tour, disappear. There was mystique to Jay, to Nas, even to DMX to some degree. Even though he was, you know, you could just be walking through the Bronx and play Zachs.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Pete]

Fab was. He changed with the times he went with the Internet. Like, he was. Made himself seen. He was out all the time. He was rapping with the younger kids. Like, I think the less mystique you have from that era, maybe you get an oversight of the legend status because you're so accessible. Like, you couldn't even think of that person being a legend because they're outside every day. Like, you see, we knew every Fab joke ever in 2012. Yeah. He would talk to everyone on the Internet. Like, I think that that changed the perception. Now that doesn't matter. Like, that's actually required of artists to do that and still be legends. But Fab was in that weird time of, you're from the 90s cloth, but now you're. You're a 2000s rapper at the end of the day.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Pete]

And like post 2010. So I think that probably changed it as well. Where Kiss was in the Bad Boy, the Rough Riders mystique era, then went into, you know, the modern era. That's where I think a lot of it does. Does happen. But we were on Bag Fuel yesterday. I believe they put an episode out this week. Shout out to Esso and Heineken and Space Ghost. You got. I could see you a little salty on your face when. When Heineken asked who's a better rapper.

[Ginger]

Fab or Banks, that wasn't salty. I just don't. I don't think that that's.

[Pete]

You looked offended.

[Ginger]

No, no. I just don't think that that's a. A good matchup.

[Pete]

Well, that's why I said, are we talking about just rapping? Just because if Fab and Banks were to do a versus. Not to say that Banks could not hold his own, but if we're doing solo versus Banks versus Fab, it's gonna be a long night for Banks.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Pete]

But if it's just rapping, I have Banks over Fab.

[Ginger]

Banks can. Banks can rap. I don't. I just don't. I don't feel like he's a better rapper than Fab, though. I don't. But he can rap. You know, we know that Banks can rap, but it's not. I don't think that he raps better than Fab, though. And, you know, it's the thing with Banks that I always noticed, like, Queens, y' all hold Banks down. Like, you can't say nothing close to being negative about Banks to Somebody from Queens.

[Pete]

What would there be negative to say?

[Ginger]

No, no, I'm not saying it is.

[Pete]

I'm just saying you can't be like.

[Ginger]

No, you can't even be, like, perfect. Nah. But I don't think he better than y' all be like, well, what you mean? Like, did you not hit? And then y' all get. When y' all start calling him Plk. When y' all get into that. Yeah, it's like, all right, man. Y' all can get into that. Yo, Plk. Nah, y' all don't want to see Plk. It's like, no, we do want to see it. We fuck with Plk.

[Pete]

But I call him Hefner sometimes.

[Ginger]

Yeah, listen, and I love the fact that people having these conversations about New York rap. I love that. I love that. I love to see that. But in my. In my humbled opinion. Because I can't rhyme. But in my humble opinion, Fab is a better rapper than Banks.

[Pete]

But I mean, it's just because Banks during that, like, 2000s mixtape era that that took over New York. Like, I mean, yeah, of course, 50 was 50, but after 50 cents, the future. No mercy, no fear. 50's focusing on making hit records with Dr. Dre. Banks was like, our representation of that. Like, when Fab would go do his mixtape. Cool. We got Banks over here. Like, he was our mixtape guy. That's why. That's why we revered him.

[Ginger]

Is Banks top five out of Queens ever?

[Pete]

Are you asking my personal or. Or what?

[Ginger]

I know you personally, so. Yes, I'm asking you a personal question.

[Pete]

No, because if we're doing, like, the top five, like, when you add in all the tiers of what would make the top five list? That's a separate question than my. My personal. Yes. He's 1000%. Like, I cool G. Rap is the reason for the mafioso New York rap. I love. He should be top five queens rapper of all time. But I, at 35 years old, listen to way more Lloyd Banks than I did Cool J rap.

[Ginger]

Oh, yeah, I understand.

[Pete]

So, like, to me, yes, but you.

[Ginger]

Know rap, you know music.

[Pete]

Banks is top three in Queens. To me personally. Like, personally of what I listened to mostly growing up. Yeah, Banks would be right there.

[Ginger]

Okay, so if you got him top three queens, he's. You got him above 50. You got him above 50.

[Pete]

Personally.

[Ginger]

Yeah. No way. Personally. Do you personally have him over 50? Like, to you and you.

[Pete]

I probably listen to banks in 50s. The same.

[Ginger]

Okay, I got that. Is Banks a better rapper than 50?

[Pete]

Yes.

[Ginger]

Okay.

[Pete]

@.

[Ginger]

Rapping? Yeah. No, he's not a. We know he's not a better artist. We know that.

[Pete]

Yeah. At rapping. Yes. But that's not as much as I. I am the white nerdy rap fan. I do like songs. Yeah. Like, if I were to pick an album, I would pick a 50 Cent album over a Lloyd Banks one. Yeah, in a heartbeat. Just because 50 is a great artist and Banks is in his own right, but is a better rapper as an artist. Yeah, Banks would be top. Top five. But I mean, if I'm going with my non personal one, like, yeah, Nas ll, like, once you get into that, that realm is like, all right, man, what are we doing right.

[Ginger]

Now? That's what I'm saying. Like you saying you got Banks three top.

[Pete]

Prodigy. Like you just.

[Ginger]

Said. You just said that. I want you to understand what you just said. Rory, you said you got Banks.

[Pete]

Top three out of Queens ever of my personal.

[Ginger]

Favorite. Yes, I heard that part. It cannot be a personal favor because nobody else is gonna say what.

[Pete]

You just said, which is, I.

[Ginger]

Disagree.

[Pete]

Banks. I think people my age. I think people my age, for.

[Ginger]

Sure. Nah.

[Pete]

Bro. People my age.

[Ginger]

Nah. Cause people your age, a lot more people are gonna have Nikki in the top three out of.

[Pete]

Queens. If I'm doing my regular list, yeah, Nikki would be top three top five for sure. I put Nikki in top five of the modern rap period. Not just a.

[Ginger]

Burrow. All right, so this is what I'm.

[Pete]

Saying. But then if you're getting into the rapping weeds, like I got Pharaoh Monch pret high in my Queens.

[Ginger]

Rappers. Okay, but I'm just saying.

[Pete]

That'S. Where do you put tip? Like there's a pause. There's a lot of Queens rappers there. But if I'm going off the 20 years, 20 plus years of me listening to hip hop, Banks is probably. If I were to do my Spotify wrap up of my whole life. Yeah. Banks would be up.

[Ginger]

There. Okay. I'm not mad at that. I'm just saying. I'm just. I'm just trying to get more into your. Your brain. Your musical brain. Like Queens mc did.

[Pete]

I. Midnight Marauders is one of the greatest ever. Did I listen to it constantly? Sure. But in my 93 Chevy Malibu from 04 to.

[Ginger]

2010. Yeah, it's.

[Pete]

Banks. It was. Yeah, it was. More Money in the bank part three playing every day. Not. Not elect electric relaxation. Like we was just banging. Banks.

[Ginger]

Mixtape. I get it. I just like the fact that people are having these conversations.

[Pete]

Man. It's good to Queens is a tough one to put together, though. As far, obviously, Brooklyn would probably be the. The. The toughest. But putting a Queen's top five together, you have to leave out.

[Ginger]

Legends. Oh, like, without a doubt.

[Pete]

Cuz. Out the gate between LL, Nikki, Q Tip, Prodigy, Cool G, Run, DMC. I mean, where do we start? There, 50. It gets very tough to put a top five together. You're going to disrespect the Legends somewhere throughout.

[Ginger]

This. Dare I say, Ja.

[Pete]

Rule. Oh, dare. Of course he's up there. Rule might make my personal five of who I listen to. Like, mainly, let's say, high school, NAS, banks, 50, rule, and. And then probably I would put tribe at five of who I listen to the most at that.

[Ginger]

Time.

[Pete]

Okay. Yeah. All.

[Ginger]

Right. Is Fab. Is Fab top five out of Brooklyn? I don't know.

[Pete]

Man. While I think, okay, do you have them in top five? I know people are literally yelling at their AirPods car speakers of how mad they are for us to even consider this, but I'm not mad at the.

[Ginger]

Conversation. I got. I got Fab. Top five out of Brooklyn, probably. Yeah. J Big. Yeah, Fab, Kane, Kim.

[Pete]

Foxy.

[Ginger]

Okay. Yeah, Fab is probably my top five out of.

[Pete]

Brooklyn. You have most in.

[Ginger]

There. Yeah, but not in my top.

[Pete]

Five. Okay. Okay. Personally, it is. Well, you're. You're, you know, 10 years my senior, so I can see you having Kane there. Do I respect Big Daddy Kane and think he's amazing and all that? Kane ain't my personal.

[Ginger]

Father. Hold the fuck.

[Pete]

Up. Because I'm.

[Ginger]

Young. We didn't say.

[Pete]

Rakim. Rakim is from Long.

[Ginger]

Island. Oh, yeah, I forgot. I always feel like Rakim was from.

[Pete]

Queens. No, no, but that Long island, when we were talking with Dela. That's a crazy list, if you get down to.

[Ginger]

It.

[Pete]

Yeah. Between them fucking Rakim, half of LL Cool J doom biz, like, it gets kind of crazy in Long island as.

[Ginger]

Well. I think so. I think. But see, that's the thing. I think definitively, definitively, more people will say Fab is top five out of Brooklyn than they would say Banks is top five out of.

[Pete]

Queensland. Yeah, I don't debate that at.

[Ginger]

All. So that's what I'm saying. It's like, definitively, I don't think people argued. I think top five out of Brooklyn, Fab is there for sure. For. For 95% of.

[Pete]

People. Okay, where do you put. Where do you put Jizza then? Because you just leaving out most. Jizza is kind of nuts to.

[Ginger]

Me. No, I'M just saying in my personal top five, I mean, obviously the, you know, legends, they'll be on that list. But yeah, for me personally.

[Pete]

Nah. Speaking of the underrated rappers, you know, we didn't put like a full list together or anything, but I. I felt like not bringing up AZ and the most underrated rappers of all time was kind of.

[Ginger]

Nuts. But the output. AZ don't have enough.

[Pete]

Music. What? I. I think maybe you just weren't paying.

[Ginger]

Attention. Me, of course I was paying.

[Pete]

Attention. I mean, do or Die is obviously a classic. But then, you know, the Nine Lives joint, Asiatic, he put out a lot when I was in high school. Like, he just wasn't on a major label. Let me pull up AZ's. Cause AZ had some of my favorite albums when I was in high.

[Ginger]

School. Yeah. But I'm talking about, like, what Fab has been able to do and how relevant he's been able to stay and things like that over 26, 27 years. That's not. You know what I'm saying? Like Az, of course he's a. To me, he's a legend for sure. But when you say most underrated ever, I think fab is.

[Pete]

That. That run of doe or die pieces of a man, which is incredible. Nine lives Asiatic AWOL in the format 95 to 06. AZ was very, very consistent and very, very underrated in. In my opinion, because I was even writing them down once I was seeing the comments of the. The underrated. I have AZ pretty high. I have inspected deck super high. But just the output wasn't there. And, you know, losing his first album in the flood during that Wu Tang, I think things obviously would have been different. This is my sleeper. Underrated rapper.

[Ginger]

Chamillionaire.

[Pete]

Okay. I figured I would get a laugh from you, but you got it. Like, did you listen to chamillionaire in the mid-2000s? Like, he could really rap and his albums were fucking great. Yeah, I just think he kind of came off as like a caricature to some.

[Ginger]

Degree. It was a little too.

[Pete]

Animated. Yeah, but I mean, it was the era of people coming off what Luda did with being animated. It kind of was like a thing in hip.

[Ginger]

Hop.

[Pete]

Yeah. It just. He could really like.

[Ginger]

Rap. No, no, no. For.

[Pete]

Sure. And would never get that. Isn't he like some crypto billionaire now or some. Yeah, I see why he's doing his.

[Ginger]

Rap. He doesn't care about rap. You don't care whose list he's.

[Pete]

On. He doesn't give a. Yeah, I was just jotting Names down. On the way here, we talked about chic. I still think Chic gets overlooked. Like the Wheel of the street album. I think Sheik had the best verses for sure. Cool G rap we just brought up before. I got Cor Mega there. Again, just a bunch of queens.

[Ginger]

Rappers, the whole queens.

[Pete]

Down. Draco, which we talked about. I feel like a lot of the LA sound now is just kind of his flow and his approach to music. Redman ESG I have there. I didn't realize how good Boosie was until I got older. Like, when I was younger, Boosie had like two hit records. Of course we knew who Boosie was. How I learned how to spell, which I guess is saying something fab, too. Yeah, that's not how you spell. Did you know that? That's how you spell it? Yeah. Okay. Nobody told me you didn't know. Red.

[Ginger]

Square. Like, you don't spell he. Like, he's spelling it wrong. It was like, he's doing that on purpose.

[Pete]

Like. But there was never a time when I had to like, spell fabulous at that in that era. So I never really got.

[Ginger]

Correct. You don't even say fabulous. When do you say that? When do you say the word fabulous? Like, that was like. If we go out the Internet, you'd be like, oh, my God, steak was fabulous. That is the last time we ever going to.

[Pete]

Dinner. I'm actually kind of. That's how good Fab must have been at rapping in the late 90s that no one from your era gave him for calling himself.

[Ginger]

Fabulous. Well, it was fabulous.

[Pete]

Sport. You know, that's what you guys always say. Like, that changes.

[Ginger]

Anything. I mean, I mean, you know, that was his.

[Pete]

Name. I mean, I know it came from allegedly some. Some non quote unquote gay. Like, I know it wasn't fabulous. It was like, you know, some polo shit. Yeah, but still, I'm. I'm shocked that no one was like, fabulous. That's what you landed on. See, but not sports at the.

[Ginger]

End. You try you making it now. You making it where you like to do that. You like to make things weird. I get what you're.

[Pete]

Saying. At that time, fabulous was probably the most, like, stereotypical gay joke from straight people. Fabulous. And they would do this, like. I'm sure that was the SNL skit at that time. Like, that happened for sure. And then Fab came out kind of on his may, like the pretty boy. Like, I'm shocked that people weren't giving him more like, that's how good of a rapper you are. That we was like, all right, fine. You could.

[Ginger]

Be. We overlooked.

[Pete]

It. You could be.

[Ginger]

Fabulous. Like, what's his name again? Fabulous. Okay. All right. Yeah, he's nice. Like, he can.

[Pete]

Rape. And then I'd say the same, but no one's saying anything to stack bundles. When he said I'm the gorgeous gangster, we was like, yeah, you.

[Ginger]

Are. We agreed. He's like, no, listen, I get.

[Pete]

It. Someone telling me he's not. Someone go tell him he's not.

[Ginger]

Gorgeous. Someone dispute that. Somebody. Somebody expressed their discrepancies about.

[Pete]

That. Sell go buy. No, yo. Yeah, yo, your man not gorgeous. Rest in peace. To stacks.

[Ginger]

Man. Rest in peace. Stack bundles. For sure. But, yeah, the most underrated rapper ever is Ludacris, and his discography is better than Fab and.

[Pete]

Jadakiss. Respectfully, we're reading off some IG comments. I do agree that Luda is one of the most underrated rappers.

[Ginger]

Ever. Yes, for sure. For.

[Pete]

Sure. But because Luda is.

[Ginger]

A. That they talk about more than they talk about Fab, and they give him more praise than they give Fab.

[Pete]

I kind of feel like Luda is the Fab of Atlanta. And this is. You have every right to kill me on this because I'm not from Atlanta. This is me outside looking in. When I talk to my Atlanta friends and we have these debates, they don't bring Luda name up the way I feel like they.

[Ginger]

Should.

[Pete]

Okay. The same way we're talking about Fab, like, yeah, we all know if you think about it, this guy is a legend. I just don't hear Luda's name being brought up right away in even. You don't have to put him in the top five. But the fact that you're not even bringing his name up to debate, it has always been crazy to me. I think Luda and Fab have a very similar trajectory in that point with their Cities. Like, before T.I. and Jeezy came along, though, this was the guy, like, this was who kind of ushered in the eventual takeover from the South. And I know Atlanta could debate about somebody I wasn't around, but I'm saying from the outside looking in, where all of us were like, well, shit.

[Ginger]

It'S.

[Pete]

It. Atlanta's better than us now. Yeah, like, they got it. It was Luda kind of ushering that. That part in. And I'm not saying that he has a better catalog than Jada and Fab, but if you get in to.

[Ginger]

His first few albums, ludicrous discography is. It might be underrated. I'm. I'm willing to agree with.

[Pete]

That. Back for the first time, word of mouth, chicken and beer when we had that debate of, like, the three album run. I apologize for not putting Ludacris in that conversation. Back for the first time, word of mouth, chicken and beer from 2000 to 2003 is the craziest three year run of that time. I feel like that was nuts. And on the visual side. Yeah, I'm not mad at that.

[Ginger]

Comment. No. I do feel like he's underrated, but I feel like Luda gets. He does get his praise, though. I feel like people do. I feel like he's underrated as far as, like, people not really understanding how dope of an emcee is, like, lyrically. I think people look at the, you know, the animation and the visuals and things like that, you know, it's more like too much, maybe, of a character. For a lot of people rap, it kind of leans into the character.

[Pete]

Thing. Well, he was funny. He was a radio personality. Like, it was funny. But Luda could still rap when it.

[Ginger]

Was. So that's what I say. I think he's underrated in that regard. Not of his celebrity, star power and how people revere him and talk about him. I don't think he's underrated there. I think he's underrated when you start talking about his skill set and how well he can really.

[Pete]

Rap. He actually has more in common with Fab, now that I think about it even more, because Fab has a lot of those lines that are more silly and fun. Her feet are killing her. Call it shoe aside. What? All right, cool. It's for the song. Fab could really rap. Luda and him are very similar in that regard, too. You're gonna get a lot.

[Ginger]

Of. It's the delivery.

[Pete]

Though.

[Ginger]

Yeah. The way Luda say it and.

[Pete]

The way some people call it, like, remedial bars and it's like, no, that's for the fun of the.

[Ginger]

Song.

[Pete]

Yeah. But when it's time to rap, both of them can really, really rap. But Luda, like, you're gonna get the hip hop quotable song, which to me is. Is captions. It's like caption rap. The same way Fab was doing.

[Ginger]

It.

[Pete]

Yeah. Yeah. Luda and Fab are actually extremely similar, just from different places in the country. But, yeah, the Boosie shit. It wasn't until Boosie started doing content and the Internet had to tell me that Boosie was like. Like a rapper. I wasn't. I wasn't really paying.

[Ginger]

Attention.

[Pete]

Yeah. Yes. Boosie Is Boosie. That's why we gave him a pass for wearing. Wearing the jacket Courtside, the Cabin jacket. Which was crazy because I don't even think Boosie knows, like, how much he does mean to our fraternity and our strolls and everything. I think he just like, didn't he say, like, he borrowed it from his brother and just was like, oh, is this cool? It's.

[Ginger]

Red. Shout out to Scott Veneer. You know, he's curated some music for some of our favorite shows. How to make it in.

[Pete]

America. He did Entourage too.

[Ginger]

Right? Yeah.

[Pete]

Entourage. Yeah. He smoked.

[Ginger]

Entourage. He was in the comments. He said, if we're talking underrated, I would argue Beanie Siegel is the most underrated. He has two of my most listened to albums, Scott. I mean, your musical ear, your taste is impeccable. But Beans is probably considered to most the best rapper out of his city. Fab is not considered the best rapper out of New York on.

[Pete]

Nobody's. And there's no disrespect for just Philly and New York as far as time period of who's putting out hip hop and sheer population. It's an unfair comparison. Like, it'd be easier to be the best I get. I'm not skill level because number one on our rapper cities, but just the sheer population of each city is different. But to be considered how much.

[Ginger]

Longer from your city means you're not.

[Pete]

Underrated. I don't care if you're in Scottsdale.

[Ginger]

Arizona.

[Pete]

Exactly. If you're the number one robbing.

[Ginger]

Your city, you're not.

[Pete]

Underrated. Number one of.

[Ginger]

Anything. That's what I'm.

[Pete]

Saying. So I'm not here to.

[Ginger]

Ha. If people have you as number one from your city, you're not.

[Pete]

Under. I don't even think I'm number one in tomorrow's.

[Ginger]

Life.

[Pete]

Yeah. So no. And we've talked about our personal top tens. I have Beans in my personal top 10 favorite of all.

[Ginger]

Time.

[Pete]

Yeah. But I do see what. What he is saying. Like, I think it was just cuz Bean Bean's run wasn't short just when he was at his height. The run of Rockefeller was so short when he was at the height when he was the next.

[Ginger]

Guy.

[Pete]

Yeah. It just got cut. Cut too quick. And then he went to jail as well. Like, there was a lot of factors. So I could see what. What Scott.

[Ginger]

Said. There were some things that messed with his trajectory as far as being a.

[Pete]

Superstar. And if this changes anything, Scott did put Lloyd Banks my House in Entourage, which was a mixtape record. I don't remember any fat.

[Ginger]

Mixtape. No.

[Pete]

Scott. I don't remember Vincent Chase banging Fab.

[Ginger]

Mixtape. Yeah, like, if you ever watched.

[Pete]

I remember Turtle throwing on that More Money in The Bank Part 2.

[Ginger]

Though. Yeah. You watched any of those series on HBO around that time. And the music that was curated Broke Mogul on Instagram, Scott Veneer. He was responsible for all of that impeccable, what I call curation and playlist of some of our favorite.

[Pete]

Shows. Yeah. While we're talking about Philly, I had Young Chris on my list.

[Ginger]

Underrated. Oh, yeah, he's underrated. If we talking about. I don't say Beans is not underrated to.

[Pete]

Me. Yeah.

[Ginger]

Chris. Young Chris is.

[Pete]

Underrated. Even Petey. I think most of State Property, if things had panned out different, would get the flowers that. That, that they deserve. Because everybody in state property could rap. Rap. I have Obi Trice on my.

[Ginger]

List.

[Pete]

Okay. I even still, like, every now and then will throw on OB's second album, Second Round on Me. Like, Obi made good projects. Even after, like, his allure and the Eminem shit kind of faded. He was still putting out joints. Like, I even think the setup is on that. He had hit records and he could rap really.

[Ginger]

Well.

[Pete]

Yeah. And who's our guy that was also signed as Shady at that time? Stat.

[Ginger]

Quo. Stat Quo is underrated out of.

[Pete]

Atlanta, and it was one of the.

[Ginger]

Most underrated rappers out of Atlanta. Stat Quo, without a doubt, is one of the most underrated rappers out of.

[Pete]

Atlanta. And I promise you, Paul, this is not a diss at all. I will say Shady Records has had some of the best rappers that just ended up. I don't know what happened with how you guys were promoting. Remember. Remember Cassius that was signed the same time as Stat Quo? He was.

[Ginger]

Nice. Cassius was. Is he from.

[Pete]

Cleveland?

[Ginger]

Chicago. Chicago.

[Pete]

Okay. Yeah. But he was on that whole Eminem Presents the Re up shit. That. That Stat Quo was like the star on ob. Like, it was the Shady. You know, their version with mixtape as a major album. Yeah, he was like. They had a lot of guys in that era that were fire. I just don't know what happened. But, I mean, Paul's gonna take it as it is. They're sensitive over there. Another Queen's rapper. I have.

[Ginger]

Nature.

[Pete]

Okay. Nature. I even think.

[Ginger]

On.

[Pete]

Yeah. From tv might. Might have the best verse. What was the album? It's a red cover. I can't remember the name of it. I used to play that Nature album all the time. Four Seasons or some like that. It was a red cover nature. I have very high on.

[Ginger]

That. No worry about.

[Pete]

Mal. I saw your vision board for 2026 and what I saw right there was you upgrading to the all new iPhone 17 Pro. 2026 is the year you're going to get.

[Ginger]

It. This is.

[Pete]

It. And what makes it so easy is Boost Mobile because you don't have to think about traffic, you don't have to think about going to the store. They will order a new phone online for you, send an expert to your home or work to deliver your brand new iPhone 17 Pro. So you could check that off your vision board right away in.

[Ginger]

2026. Get right to it. Visit boostmobile.com to get started. Delivery available for select devices [e-mail] terms.

[Pete]

Apply. Mall Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock bet, the official sports book partner of the Miami Heat and the Orlando Magic. Just clean it up in Florida over there. I cleaned up over the holidays. I made some money, man, on on Hard Rock.

[Ginger]

Bet. Yeah. So you was a little excited in the group.

[Pete]

Chat? Yeah, a little Knicks and Spurs. I got. I got a little my money.

[Ginger]

Back. Some of that money.

[Pete]

Back. But listen, man, baby, when it's cold outside, you know that means the hardwood is heating.

[Ginger]

Up.

[Pete]

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[Ginger]

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[DJ Hester Prynne]

Virginia. When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put.

[Ginger]

On?

[DJ Hester Prynne]

Biggie. You put on Biggie when you feel.

[Pete]

Uncomfortable. Because I want to get.

[DJ Hester Prynne]

Confident. This is DJ Hester Prynne's Music is Therapy, a new podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist that asks one simple question. Who do you want to be and what's the song? The of that can take you there. Music changes what you feel, and what you feel changes what you do. Right that moment where a song shifts something inside you, that's where transformation starts. This year, I'm talking to experts across every area of life, like personal finance icon Gene Chaty, New York Times journalist David Gellis, relationship legend Dan Savage, human connection teacher Mark Groves, and the man who shaped my ear more than anyone, Requestlove. They'll bring the strategies. I'll pair them with the right records, and we'll teach you how to use the music to make change stick. This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for your entire year. Listen to DJ Hester Prynne's Music is Therapy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your.

[Ginger]

Podcasts. Like, if we're on the air here and I literally have my contract.

[Pete]

Here and I'm looking at, you know.

[Ginger]

As soon as I sign this, I'm gonna get a seven figure check. I've told them I won't be working here in two weeks. From the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creatives who built a cultural empire, the Atlanta Is podcast uncovers the stories behind one of the most influential cities in the world. The thing I love about Atlanta is that it's a city of hustlers, man. Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's rise. Featuring conversations with Ludacris, Will Packer, Pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ Drama, and more. The full series is available to listen. Listen to now. I really just had never experienced anything like what was going on in the city as far as, like, you know, seeing so many young, black, affluent creatives in all walks of.

[Pete]

Life. The church had dwindled almost to.

[Ginger]

Nothing. And God said, this is your assignment. And that's like, how, you know, like, okay, oh, you from Atlanta for real. I ain't got to say too.

[Pete]

Much. I'm Grady.

[Ginger]

Baby. Shut up. Listen to Atlanta is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever, wherever you get your.

[Pete]

Podcast. The take I wanted to have last episode when we were talking about underrated rappers, I didn't say because.

[Ginger]

Oh.

[Pete]

It'S just gonna make all our listeners roll their eyes when it comes to rapping. I think Jay Z is an underrated rapper. He gets his just do of of of course people. I don't even like him. Put him number one because what he's accomplished everything. He's. He can rap just as good as every last one of your favorite.

[Ginger]

Rappers. But see, when you say under.

[Pete]

He'S an underrated lyricist, like I don't think he gets his flowers for how good of a rapper he is. Not songmaker, not great albums, not achievements, not longevity, just flat out rapping. I don't think people throw his name in the mix because we always like the same way we were saying with Fab Max. We talk about just rapping, rapping. Nobody throws hove when we're talking the just yo. We just talk about rapping because then we get into the black thoughts faramount. And I'm not here to debate if he's better than them or not. But I don't think Jay gets put in those conversations the way he can rap just as good as everyone.

[Ginger]

Else. Yeah, but I can't say on.

[Pete]

Some lyrical miracle, whatever you want to say, Jay can do.

[Ginger]

That. But I can't say Jay Z is underrated only because if we look at any, you know, platform whatever and look at their list of the greatest ever, he's on everybody's.

[Pete]

List. No, I'm talking about when we're having the lyricist, rapper, rapper.

[Ginger]

Conversation. Are you talking about his skill set? Like they don't give that part of his skill set.

[Pete]

Enough. Everything else, Jay gets his flowers for everything. I'm saying that part like when we talk about lyricists, people be like, oh well, I put hov there. But if we talking just lyricists, I got black thought right here. Like Jay doesn't even ever get in that conversation when we're talking about.

[Ginger]

That. Yeah, but I can't say Jay's underrated. Cause he gets his just due from everybody artists.

[Pete]

Publications. But I'm saying just the, the.

[Ginger]

Lyrical. I get what you're saying. That part of his skill set doesn't get.

[Pete]

Where. Where Nas gets Nas is put in both those conversations. Nas will get his flowers on the side that Jay gets his flowers on. On all the lists publications. But then when we're talking about the nerdy lyrical side, Nas will still be in that conversation, but Jay won't. Yeah, I just, I don't understand why, like Jay is just as good as everybody at rappers.

[Ginger]

Happen. Who's the one rapper that you see a lot of people speak about and give praise to that. You just, like, y' all might be putting too much on.

[Pete]

That. That's a good.

[Ginger]

Question. It. Man, it. Let's have a conversation. These mics aren't here. These cameras aren't here. It's just you and me.

[Pete]

Okay? We're saying the era that we're talking about right now. Are you saying, like, currently? Because a lot of these guys stink that y' all think I.

[Ginger]

Know. Oh, I don't.

[Pete]

Listen. Because if we're talking modern era, like, most of y' all.

[Ginger]

Stink. No, I'm talking about just, you know, from. Again, my taste level, you know, my growing up in the culture and consuming the.

[Pete]

Culture. The era you grew up in, that which we've been talking about this whole.

[Ginger]

Episode. The most overrated rapper to me, and, you know, he's a legend. But I fell victim to this at one point, too. And then I had to really sit down and really think about it, like, yeah, he's dope, but he might be overrated. Andre 3000, only because he never put out a solo rap project, and he gets goat.

[Pete]

Status. Like we called, like dessert. No, no.

[Ginger]

No. His. Listen, we know the.

[Pete]

Influence. It wasn't until Twitter that I found out that the world thought three Stacks, Lauryn Hill, and Tupac were all overrated and not legends. It wasn't till Twitter did I find that.

[Ginger]

Out. But this. The thing is, 3,000 never had a solo rap album. And I think to be considered top five rappers of all time and not have a solo rap album might be like, damn, bro. Like, how many other people can? You know what I mean? It's just like, I get the influence. Like, one of my favorite groups. I'm always, you know, whenever we even get a hint that we're getting a 3,000 verse, I'm probably one of the first people to, like, run and listen to it. So I know his skill set. Andre 3000 is an incredible rapper. But I just think when you talking about just overrated, when you. You have to have a solo rap album, why? To be considered top five of one of the goats. Because it's like, it's just that I think that's one of the qualifications. Can you be considered a goat at your sport and didn't win the.

[Pete]

Title. But in every. Every other genre of music, the people that we say are goats, 99% of them were, like, in.

[Ginger]

Groups. What do you.

[Pete]

Mean? Outside of, like, Stevie Michael and Prince, like, people are in bands, people are in groups and are still revered as the greatest at their craft. Like, what Just because he's in.

[Ginger]

It. But they put out solo. They put out solo.

[Pete]

Projects. Not.

[Ginger]

Everybody. Who did you just name that didn't put out a.

[Pete]

Solo. No, I'm saying aside from Stevie, Mike and Prince, most of music is within groups and bands. Like that's a. That's a.

[Ginger]

Thing. I mean, there's. Yes, there's groups and bands, but I'm talking about in.

[Pete]

Rap. Somebody says you're one of the greatest other genres. I'm saying rap is the only. Only place that I feel like we do this has to be a solo artist, maybe pop music in that regard. Cause I feel like which one.

[Ginger]

Of the top singers of all time was in a group that we like? Anybody's top five R&B vocalists of all time is probably. They weren't in a group maybe at one point, but they put out a solo project. That's what I'm saying. You have to put out a solo project. We have to just see what you sound like, what you look like, what you do on your own. And we got that with New Blue sun. That wasn't rapid, you know, good vibe, good energy. I'm there, I'm with that. You know, that's my type of shit too. But when you say. Because again, I fell victim at one point of having 3,000 in my top five rappers of all time. And I had to really think about it. I'm like, that's not fair to somebody whose entire career is a solo career. And they've put out amazing albums, amazing bars, amazing, you know, and they don't get that slot whereas 3,000 gets it. But he never. We never got a solo rap project from.

[Pete]

Him. But he's even from the era where there was, you know, it was three verse era. So it's not like every song is just three stacks with a 16 move on big boy. And a song like he has a. He has an output of verses that could still rival somebody that is a solo artist. With the amount of Outkast projects that. That were put out, plus the verses he. Legendary verses he's put out at the latter half of his career. If you put all verses side by side with solo artists that we deem the best. How is three sacks not.

[Ginger]

There? Listen, he's there because he's in the conversation of greatest of all time. So that right there is. And again, it pains me to even have an overrated rapper conversation and put 3000 name in it. Cause he is one of my favorite rappers of all time. But you gotta have at least one solo rap Album, I think, where.

[Pete]

The offensive part, where fans like me, it's the word overrated. If you were like, yo, there should be. There should be. There should be an asterisk maybe next to his name because he was in a group type of thing. Like, I'm saying, like a Roger Maris asterisk on something because the playing field is a little different right now. But Roger Maris wasn't overrated because he had five extra games than Babe Ruth to get 61 home runs. Like. Like, it's just a different playing. You're not overrated. You just. It's. You're just in a different category maybe because you guys are playing different sports when it comes to putting an album.

[Ginger]

Out. Yeah. But with this thing called rap roar, you got it. We got to know what you do by.

[DJ Hester Prynne]

Yourself. Just.

[Pete]

You. Is Barry Sanders overrated because he had a shorter.

[Ginger]

Career? He needs a winner right now. So. Yeah, I mean. Yeah, well, things like that. Kevin Durant probably needs to be on a team where he's not surrounded by Steph and Klay. And, like, he need to go get one with Houston right now to be considered Goat or to be.

[Pete]

Considered. Like, you can say that about so many basketball players from that.

[Ginger]

Era. Of course you can. But what I'm saying is that doesn't mean that Kevin Durant's not a great player. That doesn't mean that Andre 2000 is not a great rapper and a great MC. I'm just saying that me personally, I can't have him in my top five. And I used to, but I can't, because, bro, you gotta have at least one solo rap project to be considered top five. Or. And being overrated means that you're rated. It means that people, they look at.

[Pete]

You. No, that's semantics. No, but it is.

[Ginger]

Though. It is.

[Pete]

Though. That's.

[Ginger]

Semantics. It is, though. It's meaning, like, yo, so many people fuck with you and like, you. And it's like, aight, but hold on, man, we gotta start looking at. Aight, do he have a solo rap? So we gotta kinda take. It's just the attributes. It's like you gotta move the slacker down. Like, he don't got a solo rap joint, so he can't be. You know what I'm saying? That's all it is. Not saying he ain't. He's better. He's still better than 98% of y'.

[Pete]

All. Okay, let's go with. With the circumstances argument. Cause I've had this debate with the three sacks thing. Unfortunately, Biggie's Career was cut short. But I don't think anyone in this room would ever debate or give pushback that Biggie is not one of the greatest rappers that's ever existed on earth. And the amount of output he put out in the years that he was here, a double diss. Classic solo project. Classic. The amount of rapping. If you go off minutes, I'm sure 3 stacks surpasses Biggie in the amount of elite rapping minutes. So why should it matter when he has put out just more than Biggie and we revere Biggie no matter what. And Biggie only put out three discs solo albums. Okay, but it still has the amount, the amount of verses to prove. It's the amount of verses that prove that you're elite just because he happened to be rapping with somebody else on those. Let's look at the totality of the proof that we have. We have this many Biggie versus this many Three Stacks versus can they not be.

[Ginger]

Comparable? I don't think so. I think you got to.

[Pete]

Have. I think you just was able to have a longer career with the exact same amount of points. It's down to the Barry Sanders thing. Like you had a short career, but it was probably one of the most impactful we've ever seen. If you say Barry Sanders not one of the greatest running backs of all time, you're out of your fucking mind. Same with Biggie in that regard. But. But if you look at the time of someone reaching the numbers that Barry Sanders got just in a longer format, why should that take away from. From them? Because it can just because Barry Sanders did it in a quicker amount of.

[Ginger]

Time. Because it can go the opposite way as.

[Pete]

Well. Because then also I don't even like that version because there's a lot of elite rap like Wayne. I think in Modern era is. Is up there with. With one of the greatest rappers of the modern era. I wish Wayne pulled back a bit with his solo output. I wish sometimes he got on his three stack shit and just gave us 12 verses in one year and kept.

[Ginger]

It. Well, here's another one to me. And.

[Pete]

Me. Well, I don't even want to get down that.

[Ginger]

Path. We've had this debate. You've had this debate. You know, I don't know if you want to have it again, but we've had that.

[Pete]

Conversation. Even though I don't agree with the Lauren debate, I understand that one more than the Three Stacks one, because we have this, this body of work from Outkast which has so many Andre 3000 verses it's not like Outkast put out at Aliens, and we said three stacks was the best, and then we got the Flute album. Like, then I'd understand. There's a huge output, even though it's not solo, of Three Stacks.

[Ginger]

Verses. No, I. Yes, I understand that. And he's still one of the Goats. But you can't be top five all time on my list and not have a solo rap album. I'm sorry, that's just not. It's not. It's not fair. It's like, bro, we gotta get him by himself. We gotta see what he. And I get it. The verses, what everything. You know, outkast has done the greatest rap group of all time, in my opinion. I mean, yes, we give him all of that. I give all them that praise, but it wasn't a solo album. It wasn't a solo effort. Yes, he has verses, his own verses and things like that. Rapping his ass off. I just think that it's overrating him to put him top five if. If not just Andre 2000 anybody. If they don't have a solo album, a solo rap album. I'm.

[Pete]

Sorry. Okay, what if he put out one solo project that was not to the level of what, Equemani at Alien, Southern, Playlistic Cadillac, Funky music, Stankonia. But he put one out. Now, do you put them there, like, today? Because I.

[Ginger]

Think. What does it sound.

[Pete]

Like? I.

[Ginger]

Think. Think it has to be just because you put it up. No, it has to be. It has to be.

[Pete]

Good. Okay, what's the best example? All right, I think P. Prodigy is one of my favorite New York rappers. H and I. C, solo project. I love project. Went crazy on that. Al. Went crazy on that. That's such a good solo project. But would I say it compares to the infamous. No. So is that. I still think Prodigy is one of the best in New York, period. But that's not because he put out hnic. It's because everything he did with Mobb Deep, it's his verses on the Mobb Deep.

[Ginger]

Album. Yeah, but you also don't have him as a.

[Pete]

Goat. I have him as one of the goats in New York.

[Ginger]

City. I'm talking about rap in New.

[Pete]

York. Yeah, he's up there for me.

[Ginger]

In New York in.

[Pete]

Rap. Oh, I know. I'm just using an example of somebody that was in it, considered for.

[Ginger]

Sure a goat, no matter where you from. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You gotta have a solo.

[Pete]

Album. So that's just a checklist. It doesn't matter what the solo project is or if it compares to what you did with six.

[Ginger]

Albums. I'm just saying at least. At least we have to have a solo. Not saying it has to be a classic. And it has to. I'm not putting all of that on it. I'm saying at the very least, we need to have a solo album from you. At the very least. I guess that's all. But still a legend. Still a legend, hall of Famer, all of those things. Like, I'm not. I don't want this to be taken as I'm discrediting Andre 3000 in any shape, form, or fashion. But I'm just saying, me personally, I used to have him in my top five, and I had to kind of restructure that and look like. But he don't have a solo.

[Pete]

Rap. I mean, if we're going with three sacks being overrated. I think Big Boi is one of the most underrated rappers of all time. I think Big Boy is an elite rapper that just happened to be next to a.

[Ginger]

Unicorn. I'm on that side because Big.

[Pete]

Boy could rap better.

[Ginger]

Than. Better than people give him credit for. And. And some may say a lot of those songs, he had the better.

[Pete]

Verses. Oh, there's. There's plenty of outkast Records where Big K got certified. So this is what I'm.

[Ginger]

Saying. So, yes, I.

[Pete]

Agree. Sir Lucius Left Foot is a great solo project. Big Boy got great solo.

[Ginger]

Shit. This is what I'm.

[Pete]

Saying. And Speaker Box, I mean, I know it's an outcast, but they were two separate. Speaker Box is an incredible rap.

[Ginger]

Album.

[Pete]

Absolutely. And obviously Love Below is one of the greatest. I wouldn't call it a rap.

[Ginger]

Album. I don't know what it is music. It's just beautiful.

[Pete]

Music. Just a creative. What the fuck is.

[Ginger]

Music? It's just. He just let us in. In his mind. He just let us into his.

[Pete]

Mind. Here's where I differ. I think A Day in the Life of Andre Benjamin, which is the last record on Love Below, I think that song is better than most y' all solo rap.

[Ginger]

Albums.

[Pete]

That's. I think three Stacks rapping for three minutes straight is better than a lot of y' all solo albums that are 50 minutes.

[Ginger]

Long.

[Pete]

Yeah. I mean, so that's why I still, like. After he did something, say Atlanta, he fucking destroyed every rapper at the end of the.

[Ginger]

Album. And a.

[Pete]

Joint. What was the.

[Ginger]

Joint? You have a raw 16 ain't.

[Pete]

Enough. Yeah, I was at Def Jam when that happened. And that. That song was called Something different. And then they came in and said, we're changing the title, the whole concept of the song, the hook, everything. Sixteen.

[Ginger]

Eight. Yeah. Once.

[Pete]

You. Once you got that and everything, everything changed. Like, this song is now about.

[Ginger]

Being. That's why it's like, he give us those moments. I just need a solo album of those, like, those type of moments and those things like, God damn. Like to at least have that, you know, again. Still one of my favorite MCs ever. One of the most influential artists of our culture. Not taking Nothing away from Andre 2000 in any shape, form, or fashion. But me personally, I used. I did have him in my top five. And I had to change that. Cause it's just not. If you don't have a solo rap album, it's like, come on.

[Pete]

Man. I give. And this isn't a three stacks thing, but just in general, I give give more stats to the artists like hov, Nas, Drake, people that have a very high output at the legend status that they are. I think that is a stat. I think that speaks to how talented you are that you could put out this much music and still retain your status. But with that said, I don't take away from artists that do the opposite. Cause I don't want you to have a high output if it's not gonna be at the degree of what you're doing with the cycle that you have. Like. Like, it's a stat that they can do that. But I don't think it takes away from your artistry. If you're on a. You know what? Every two, three years, I think I want to do this. I don't want to have the craziest and highest output. I'm smart. And we're not going to make it a M M thing. But even a Wayne thing, like, when you have a crazy output, sometimes it can lead to what we thought was a classic discography. There's st. We're leaning into more bad albums than we are good.

[Ginger]

Ones.

[Pete]

Yeah. So, yes. While I give the rappers that can do that more credit, I don't take away from artists that are smart enough to know I'm not gonna be.

[Ginger]

Like, yeah, let me.

[Pete]

Chill. I'm. I'm.

[Ginger]

Cool. Yeah, yeah. Let me take my time. Let me take a.

[Pete]

Year. I'm all.

[Ginger]

Right. Like, yeah, let me take a year off and just chill a little.

[Pete]

Bit. Like, do I want a Frank Ocean album? Of course I do. But if Frank is sitting there every year and has 15 records and goes, nah, this ain't blonde, I'm gonna Take his word for.

[Ginger]

It. I respect that and I appreciate.

[Pete]

That. Yeah, yeah. Don't give me some shit where now I'm looking like, yeah, with Channel Orange Blonde and Nostalgia, we got you as one of the modern guys. Don't start giving me reasons to not say.

[Ginger]

Yeah. Don't start giving me just these filler albums where it's like, was it a contract negotiation? Like, what was going on? You was just trying to get out of a deal. Cause, you know, we start having those. Nah, he was trying to get out of his deal on that one. We love doing that. Going to one album that was kind of like. Like, nah. But he was going through something with the label. They made him put that.

[Pete]

Out. Like, I like the last Kehlani project, but I see why Folded came after that.

[Ginger]

Album.

[Pete]

Yeah. You came back real quick with a. A monster while you were trying to get off of that weird that you held that.

[Ginger]

Record. That's a real thing. That's what I'm saying. We don't want too many of those.

[Pete]

Though.

[Ginger]

Yeah. From our favorite artists. Yeah.

[Pete]

Man. But. Shit. Yeah. I never liked the Tupac overrated one, but that's a big Twitter thing. I don't see it, man. Go through Tupac's.

[Ginger]

Discography.

[Pete]

Yeah. Tell me the blemish in that.

[Ginger]

Discography. I think to what we were just saying. I think a lot of it is some of that where it's like, it was so many songs after his unfortunate demise. I think that it was kind of like people felt that way where it was like, we get it, but it's like, you know, I feel like Pac maybe may have went back in and changed some of these.

[Pete]

Verses. And Pac also had. He had the Wayne output. We just didn't know. Like, you hear every producer, like, yo, Pac would knock out five songs a day. Like, but we don't know if Pac wanted you to hear the five.

[Ginger]

Songs that happened that was just like. It could have been references. It could have been something that he was just like, let me just start this idea, you know. Cause you know how it is with creating Music World. You start an idea to hear this. Yeah. Like, you just live with it for a while, and then you go back and, you know, you make the necessary changes to it.

[Pete]

So. Yeah. Cause, like. But I don't hold, like, until the End of Time. The song itself, until the End of Time is incredible. I think we would have gotten that song from Pac had he stayed a lot the rest of that album. I don't know if Pac would have co signed, like, I don't hold Born Again against Biggie. I don't.

[Ginger]

Know. I don't.

[Pete]

Know. I don't put that in his.

[Ginger]

Cat. Like, I just don't know if Big would have been 100% behind.

[Pete]

That. And don't ask me, are you still down? When you're not asking me.

[Ginger]

That.

[Pete]

Yeah. And also, who came up with Loyal to the Game as a title seven years after his.

[Ginger]

Death? Yeah, like, I just. It's like.

[Pete]

Those. Those loyal to Resting and can we. Can we find a different.

[Ginger]

Title? Man, it's over, man. Just let. Let the man.

[Pete]

Rest. Would you. Would you be part of a. One of those albums? Not in the way, like, Alan Havoc doing the Mobb Deep thing where it's like, this is the crew or like, what Daylight did. Would you ever want to participate in someone that passed.

[Ginger]

Album? It depends on how close of a relationship I have with the artist, how you know, the type of conversations we had. If I know, you know, that the artist would have wanted that music to eventually be released, hopefully release it in the way that they would want it done, things like that, then, yeah, I mean, artists created and, you know, most times the artists want the art that they create to be released into the world. But again, it would depend on my relationship and how close of proximity I was to the artist, whose music or whatever art it is, who it belonged to. Like, if you just hire me to work at a label and be like, yo, we got these whoever, whoever songs. I'm just like, I don't know. Like, I never had a relationship with this person. I don't know if I want to touch this. Like, you know what I mean? It's just like. It's just a very, you know, kind of like, awkward space to be in. But if you have that art, that relationship with that artist. Yeah, I would be on the side. Like, I know they wanted to do this. They wanted to get this out. This was the vision they had for it. This is how they wanted it to sound, feel, look like then. Yeah, I would definitely be on the side of putting that out and working on a project like.

[Pete]

That. Yeah. Because there was. I never even asked Shaw Money. Like, he worked on, I think, the first Awesomest Pac album. He did, like, three records. I'm curious how he felt because he never met.

[Ginger]

Pack. Like, it has to be.

[Pete]

Awkward.

[Ginger]

Yeah. Like, you don't know this.

[Pete]

Person. Of course I'll give you this beat, but, like, I like this beat.

[Ginger]

Yeah. Like, would this person ever even, like, like me and, like, my work, Like, I don't it's just so many different, like, you know, emotions that surround that type of decision that I would have to have that personal relationship with the.

[Pete]

Artist. Yeah, nah, for sure. But yeah, we won't get you down your Wayne Rabbit hole of.

[Ginger]

Overage. Plus, I love Wayne, man, but, you know, it's just like you said, just the output sometimes is like, we didn't need that version and we didn't need that. That, you know, song or that mixtape. Like, we didn't. We just didn't need.

[Pete]

That. You know who has the craziest output that he doesn't get flack for? And I'm not here in any way to give this legend flack, but Snoop does not give. Have the same rules that we put on Em and Wayne and certain. Certain rappers. When you. When you go on Wikipedia, just look at the discography. Yeah, we're harsher on Wayne and Em and Black, man. He was. He was with Martha Stewart for that.

[Ginger]

Album. Yeah, yeah. Him and Martha had something going.

[Pete]

On. I don't know. Legend, most famous rapper of all time. Who am I even fucking? I'm not here to ever take down a legend that way. I'm just saying we move the goalpost for certain rappers with certain.

[Ginger]

Output. I agree, I agree. That's just like, Snoop is on that list. He's on that list of like.

[Pete]

Yo, I don't even think people realize Snoop's output. Snoop may have 45.

[Ginger]

Albums. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete]

Definitely.

[Ginger]

Yeah. Like, when it was Snoop Lyon, like, once it got to Snoop Lyon, I was just like, yeah, I think I'm gonna just chill on. I didn't really go down to Snoop lion campaign. I didn't really. I wasn't a part of that.

[Pete]

One. Do we put Kanye in the ones that, like, leaked or were on a stem player? Like, we've never talked about those modern rules of like. Yeah, I mean, Donda 2 does exist. It's in my itunes, but it's not on.

[Ginger]

Streaming. Yeah. You know what it is, I think with Kanye, because we can point to he just changed as a person and mentally and things like.

[Pete]

That. Did.

[Ginger]

He?

[Pete]

Yeah. Not only changed the person, I think his focus of who he is as a person.

[Ginger]

Changed. Yeah, that means he changed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he changed. You know, his mentally, he.

[Pete]

Changed. He reacted to things that he. In the same way he would have just, you know, George Bush hates black people is the same Kanye as now. It's just different words coming up. Does that make.

[Ginger]

Sense? Yeah, 100%. But that. But that would be. Hold my Statement true. He changed. You know what I'm saying? So that's what I think we could kind of, you know, liken that to is like, yeah, Kanye just became a different version of himself. So naturally the art and the music changed along with that. But I mean, I don't, I don't think I could look at a Kanye album and be like, that was trash. Or that was.

[Pete]

Whack. I mean, ye was probably the only one that by Kanye's standards, by Kanye's standards. I call trash vultures. 1. I. I did like vultures too. I don't even know if that ended up on DSPs or it was just a leak, but. And then there's that. But they're. But they're still not, you know, they're still not comparable like to a graduation to Pablo, even latter part of his career with Yeezus. Everything. It doesn't compare to.

[Ginger]

That.

[Pete]

Yeah. Like, it's still the way we kind of look at em with certain stuff. Like if you're an EM fan, yeah, this is great and I'm glad he's still putting out music, but this isn't the Eminem show. Yeah, his focus is different. So I hope ye protects his legacy. Music wise, it's. Everything else now is subjective to your political views of protecting his legacy as a person. And that's not my place. Music wise, I hope he protects.

[Ginger]

It. Listen, Snoop is the most famous rapper probably ever that we will ever see. Great song. But he started, he started it with counting 1, 2, 3 into the 4. We would kill any other rapper if they started a verse like that. We would kill any other rapper. Like, let's just be honest. Any other rapper starts a verse like that, we are killing.

[Pete]

Them. But no, but see, to me, that's kind of like when we go back to. I don't know if it's on Bagfield or our episode of like Fab how people write out lyrics. And it's like, nah, Big Sean's doper than that. You writing out what he said right here. That was the vibe of the song. Snoop came on like the coolest motherfucker you'd ever heard in your life. Just because it wasn't lyrical. That wasn't the point of the.

[Ginger]

Song. No, I'm not saying, bro, start starting a verse like that is.

[Pete]

Crazy. Like, can't tell me nothing. Like, like, like that's basic as. But it's so.

[Ginger]

Iconic. But that's the hook. That's the melody to the.

[Pete]

Hook. I had a dream I could buy my way to Heaven when I woke I spent it on a necklace. Hard. That's a hardest shit of all.

[Ginger]

Time. That's a bar. I don't know where you was trying to go with that. That is a bard. Wait, that's a. Starting your verse. Like, that is a dream. That's a fucking bomb. Like, I've never heard a rapper say.

[Pete]

That. Yeah, he.

[Ginger]

Went. Never heard a rapper say that or anything close to.

[Pete]

That. It's basic but.

[Ginger]

Profound. Incredible way to start a verse.

[Pete]

And not to, like, try to make it too deep. The introduction of Snoop doggy dog and Dr. Dre is at the door. That's kind of a metaphor of what the. Was about to happen. Like, even it's. It's almost to the. To the. The Eminem intro of hi, kids. Do you like violence? Have you ever seen me stick Nine Inch Nails to each one of my eyelids? Like, who the fuck is this? Like, it was the introduction to what would end up being such a legendary career like Snoop doggy dog and Dr. Dre is at the.

[Ginger]

Door. In hindsight, yes. It was incredible to set it.

[Pete]

Up. 80s had very basic.

[Ginger]

Bars. No, for sure, for.

[Pete]

Sure. I don't think anyone say DLC is the.

[Ginger]

Most. I get it. But that's the start. And it's like, 1, 2, 3, into the 4. I was like, when you go back and listen to this, like, nah, we was supposed to give him more flack for that one. Just starting at first, like that incredible song. Iconic, legendary song. But just starting it like that. When we look back, it's like somebody in the studio supposed to be like, yo, we sure we keeping that?

[Pete]

Or. Well, he started to spaz.

[Ginger]

After. Oh, no. Listen.

[Pete]

Listen. Because none of y' all gave DMC any fucking flack for D's for never. Dirty MC's for mostly clean. That's just as bad as 1, 2.

[Ginger]

3. Hell no. Hell.

[Pete]

No. Dirty MC's for mostly.

[Ginger]

Clean. Counting at the intro of the verse, like, come on, bro. Come on. Like, I get it, but, like, come on. Like I said, in hindsight, incredible the way the career's panned out. But it's just like, when you just listen to it, at first, it was like, yeah, it was more the music and the vibe that we kind of was, like, into, but just, like, from rap standards, kind of like. Like, you.

[Pete]

Counted. But I think that kind of, like, represented that west coast funk sound where it was so cool and laid back, where New York was so aggressive and like, that was the vibe. Like, you was on some. Just laid back. One, two, Three into the.

[Ginger]

Ford. Like, this is almost too.

[Pete]

Easy. Like it matched what was going.

[Ginger]

On. Yeah, I get it, I get.

[Pete]

It. But I mean, going from 1, 2, 3, 4 to sexual seduction. I mean, what. What a.

[Ginger]

Range. Listen, man, that's why he's.

[Pete]

Snoop. Wasn't he a pastor from one album.

[Ginger]

Too? Of.

[Pete]

Course. Definitely assume gospel album.

[Ginger]

Somewhere. Listen, Snoop is a vampire. I'm convinced. I'm convinced. Snoop is 892 years old. He's a vamp, bro. I just watched Snoop analyze the fucking Clippers and Warriors game on Peacock the other night. I'm like, yo, what fucking movie am I watching? This is. Bro. It was like. It almost didn't seem like this was real. Like, bro, I'm. This is. He stood trial for murder. Like, this dude. Like, this is the same guy that stood trial when Steve Kerr was getting ejected. Like, the way he was analyzing that, he's like, hold on, back up, cuz. Like, I'm like, bro, this is tv. I'm watching. This is Snoop analyzing a real NBA game.

[Pete]

Bro. Yeah. Snoop was never really a Pittsburgh Steelers fan. That jersey meant something.

[Ginger]

Else. Yeah, shout out to Snoop, man. Definitely the most famous rapper that we ever had in our culture, for.

[Pete]

Sure. And just as far as entertainers, he probably has top five entertainer career of all time, bro. Like, maybe top. Like, he's.

[Ginger]

Giving. He's selling us beer, real estate. He loves the kids, pee wee.

[Pete]

Football. Yeah. I'm saying, he has the biggest Pop Warner league in California.

[Ginger]

Bro. What is. Like, it's. He's eight. He's 90 years old, bro. I'm telling.

[Pete]

You. Did you ever watch the DOC with his popcorn and.

[Ginger]

Shit?

[Pete]

Yeah. He's flying them up to Seattle. He's cursing out kids and getting them to the league. I'm like, this is Snoop.

[Ginger]

Dogg. Incredible, man, the way he was able to turn around. Cause again, you know, I remember it from the beginning. And, you know, looking back to things that Snoop went through and, you know, his career and his life to where he is today. I mean, you know, the Snoop Dogg documentary, a movie, docu series, whatever it is, it's gonna be incredible to sit back and just watch that and really, you know, appreciate the life and the career that he's been able to build for himself. Cause without a doubt, Snoop Dogg is an incredible.

[Pete]

Icon. Yeah. And I love, like, how long. And we can close this, but how long his career has been that the NBA's not even going to look into his past of, like, this guy's had a.

[Ginger]

Shady. Doesn't.

[Pete]

Matter. Like, There is a song about murder. Was the.

[Ginger]

Case. Yeah. Doesn't matter. All of that is, like, he.

[Pete]

Was with Lil Half Dead.

[Ginger]

Like. Yeah, I mean, I get it.

[Pete]

Man, but if any other person had that type of career in this era, they could never commentate for the.

[Ginger]

NBA.

[Pete]

Never. It would never.

[Ginger]

Happen. First turn your first album Doggy Style to now analyzing NBA games on P. It's just like, bro, that is just that. Life is fucking.

[Pete]

Incredible. Yeah. Absolutely incredible. I'm glad we did a cool little music.

[Ginger]

Pod. Yeah, man, we got a.

[Pete]

Code. That wasn't really the plan, but.

[Ginger]

Yeah, I'd like to see music a little more often throughout the year, man. It's always good to tap in and kind of pick your brain and see what you're thinking about.

[Pete]

Rap. Yeah. I still haven't watched the ASAP Rocky Punk Rocky music video, but I'm going.

[Ginger]

To. I'm sure the visual is.

[Pete]

Insane. Yeah. Is he on some punk rock shit? Is that what y' all said?

[Ginger]

Okay. All right. That's what Rocky.

[Pete]

Doing. All right. As soon as possible, respectfully, to his wife. I. It was more so, you know, the photo lighting and, you know, I'm a fan of the. The.

[Ginger]

Products. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get.

[Pete]

It. I'm swinging only to that of the. The two photos that Rihanna posted.

[Ginger]

Yesterday, which I'm wearing just mainly right.

[Pete]

Now. I just. I'm appreciator of fabric.

[Ginger]

Yeah. Great underwear, three kids. Yeah. Listen, man, we out of here. We're talking to y' all soon. Be safe. Be blessed. I'm that he's just Ginger.

[Pete]

Pete. This is an iHeart.

[Ginger]

Podcast. Guaranteed.