Episode 447 | Day and Night

Summary

New Rory & MAL – Episode 447 | "Day and Night" (January 27, 2026)

Host: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume
Summary by [Podcast Summarizer AI]

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Episode Overview

This episode marks New Rory & Mal's debut of a new episode on Netflix, with hosts Rory, Maul, and Damaris celebrating the milestone, reflecting on their journey, and seamlessly diving into their signature blend of hilarious banter, candid hot takes, and insightful cultural commentary. Key topics include the "intimacy coordinator" trend in TV/film, mental health days for students and adults, Kanye West's public apology and mental health discourse, the Kid Cudi & Jim Jones "Day and Night" debate, and thoughts on the business of music publishing. The trio’s chemistry delivers both laughs and real talk, making for a memorable episode.

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1. Launching on Netflix & "Intimacy Coordinators" in Entertainment

[03:07–09:01] New Era with Netflix & Champagne in the Snowstorm

• The team jokes and celebrates their first new episode dropped directly on Netflix.
• Maul and Rory poke fun at Netflix promo clichés and display their usual “culture will shift” mockery.
• Damaris shares her new reluctance to speak freely now that older family members can access the show more easily via Netflix.

[04:52–08:14] The "Intimacy Coordinator" Debate

• Damaris explains what an intimacy coordinator does on set (implements guidelines for actors in sex scenes, provides physical barriers for comfort).
• Hilarious discussion ensues about on-set logistics and misunderstandings (“Why would you cover my nipples?”—Maul [06:03]).

“I don’t want to see a sex scene with the erogenous zone blockers.” – Maul [07:14]

• The group jokes about the blurred lines between acting and real affection, admitting they’d rather film with someone they’re not attracted to.

Takeaway: The show’s tone is loose, playful, and self-aware—making light of cultural shifts while acknowledging the newly expanded audience via Netflix.

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2. Family, Work, and Oversharing in the Digital Age

[09:01–12:03] Work Boundaries & TMI

• Damaris and Maul riff about tracking menstrual cycles for work—joking about push notifications (“Baby D’s at it again!” [11:11]).
• The group transitions to a story about Dame Dash’s unique approach to sex scenes as a director, arguing the importance (or irrelevance) of intimacy coordinators.

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3. Mental Health Days: Parental Guilt, School Attendance, and Workplace Culture

[17:00–22:44] Personal Days and ‘Calling Out’

• Debate on whether employees (and kids) should give reasons for taking personal days.
• Damaris stresses the right to claim a “personal day” without elaborate excuses, while Rory asserts the “real world doesn’t care about your personal shit.”
• The team considers the value of letting children take the occasional mental health day, with Maul and Rory warning against setting a precedent for quitting “when things are rough.”

"If you quit during double sessions, it'll make the next thing easier to quit.” – Rory [21:05]

[24:03–27:57] School Stress, Social Anxiety, and Skipping Class

• Damaris recalls skipping class for mental health (“I would skip two classes and put my headphones on with all the Drake rares from YouTube” [25:24]).
• The hosts agree childhood stressors often mirror adulthood; what’s inside the school often exists later in the office.

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4. Social Media, High School Pressures & Shopping for the Snowstorm

[28:36–32:58] Life with Smartphones in School

• Maul jokes about how he wishes he had a smartphone in high school for content creation.
• Damaris observes that today’s teens face immense pressure to keep up appearances online—luxury brands, fashion trends, unrealistic standards.
• A New York vs. Upstate NY banter, as Damaris describes “old schools” (Air Force Ones) and school footwear culture.

[33:07–36:41] The Great Snowstorm Grocery Scramble

• All three swap stories about panic-buying food before the snowstorm, dealing with empty shelves and Instacart mishaps.
• Maul advises prepping early and "not being a rookie" about weather logistics (“Saturday morning is the apocalypse!” [33:54]).

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5. Kanye West, Apology Rollouts, and the 'Mental Health' Conversation

[41:32–62:06] Kanye’s Wall Street Journal Apology – Real Growth or Performative PR?

Main Discussion Points:

• Kanye West published a lengthy Wall Street Journal letter apologizing for past hurtful actions, citing undiagnosed bipolar disorder and frontal lobe damage from a car accident as root causes. The letter coincided with his new album release.
• Key Quotes:

  “He went into a long, long description of what bipolar is and... how it led him to loving the swastika.” – Rory [42:42] “I don’t think he wrote a word.” – Rory [53:49] “This is performative to me... We all know in this room, Kanye did not write none of this.” – Maul [49:47]

Debate:

• Maul: Views the apology as calculated PR and album rollout, not genuine introspection (“Just too performative for me” [61:41]).
• Damaris: Points out that public apologies, even if polished, may be the only way some artists know how to be vulnerable. She argues that even ghostwritten apologies can come from a place of truth.
• Rory: Suggests artists like Kanye adopt ‘corporation mindsets’—selling themselves with every move, and thus naturally blend PR with art.
• Larger Question: Is it wrong for artists to blend personal revelations (apologies, “coming out,” etc.) with album rollouts? Do all major artists have to do promo, or could Kanye simply “drop” music with no buildup?

“Even when Frank Ocean came out and said he was gay right before Channel Orange… a lot of artists only want to speak when they're putting out their music.” – Rory [62:05]

Consensus:
The table remains split—Maul is cynical, Damaris empathizes, Rory lands in between, highlighting the complexity and hypocrisy of music industry PR vs. “authenticity.”

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6. Kid Cudi vs. Jim Jones: Who "Made" Day and Night a Hit?

[91:57–99:41] Barbershop Debate: Origins of “Day and Night”

• Jim Jones publicly claims people only heard of Kid Cudi’s “Day and Night” because of his (Jones’) remix, which dominated Hot 97 and NYC clubs in 2008. Kid Cudi responds, arguing the song was already a smash.
• Rory details his “insider” experience: Jim Jones’ remix was indeed huge in NYC, and Hot 97’s power in that era was immense, but Cudi’s original was already “moving.”

“But to say that Hot 97 in 2008 didn’t determine the hip hop market of all 50 states… you’re bugging.” – Rory [94:05]

• The hosts agree:
  • Jim’s version “went platinum in the hood,” but “Day and Night” was destined to be a hit regardless (placement on Entourage was another major milestone).
  • Two things are true—a local co-sign helps, but star talent and song quality transcend.

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7. Versus Preview: Hit-Boy vs. Mike WiLL Made-It, Producer Culture, & R&B Shoutouts

[103:50–107:56] The Next Epic Beat Battle

• The crew debates who would win in a Hit-Boy vs. Mike WiLL Made-It “versus.” They praise both for massive versatility and catalog depth.
  • Maul: “Hit-Boy’s range is undeniable—Nas, Beyoncè, Nipsey… just undeniable.” [104:12]
  • But Damaris counters that Mike WiLL's mainstream “hits” are hard to top, citing “Pour It Up” and “Formation.”

[110:24–111:57] R&B Highlight: Ari Lennox’s ‘Vacancy’

• Special mention: Ari Lennox’s new album is praised as "more comfortable and less anxious" than her last, with JD and Bryan Michael Cox as executive producers.

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8. Music Publishing, Royalties, and Business Disputes

[115:25–126:56] Pharrell, Chad Hugo Lawsuit & How Publishing Gets Messy

• Rory expresses hope that Pharrell and Chad Hugo (The Neptunes) can resolve Chad’s lawsuit for missed royalties on major tracks (“Drop It Like It’s Hot”, “Hollaback Girl”, “Moneymaker”).
• They dissect the endless gray area in music publishing—splits, writing credits, and how collaboration value is determined, using both modern and Sinatra/Quincy Jones-era analogies.
• Key Quotes:

  “If I make a T-shirt, the T-shirt's $10... That’s an easy business. I don’t know what a baseline costs, or what it’s going to affect, how many points. I don’t know what that is.” – Rory [119:51]

Consensus:
The music business is confusing and often unfair, and even the greatest hits are surrounded by complex deals and “bullshit in the mix.”

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Notable & Memorable Moments

• New Era on Netflix:

  “We are here. We have arrived.” – Rory [03:53]

• On the True Purpose of Cancel Culture:

  “Whenever you see somebody being canceled or people calling for somebody to be canceled, nine times out of ten, it's somebody that never even supported them.” – Maul [47:50]

• Laugh-Out-Loud: Period Tracking for Work

  “Yo, imagine I had push notifications—oh, Baby D was having sex.” – Maul [11:13]

• On the Modern ‘Rollout’ Game:

  “Now everything has to be negative. I'm curious to see, with him going with a positive rollout, what happens… Is positivity even going to work?” – Rory [74:42]

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Key Discussion Timestamps

• [03:07] – Official Netflix episode start, celebratory banter
• [04:52] – Intimacy coordinators on TV sets explained
• [09:01] – Older family now can watch the podcast: generational media habits
• [17:00] – Calling out of work, personal days, “mental health day” debate
• [41:32] – Kanye’s mental health apology, promo or personal growth?
• [61:33] – Is it wrong for artists to blend rollouts with personal revelations?
• [91:57] – Kid Cudi/Day and Night debate: who made it a hit?
• [103:50] – Producer versus talk: Hit-Boy vs. Mike WiLL Made-It
• [110:24] – Ari Lennox’s new album review
• [115:25] – Pharrell, Chad Hugo, and the murky world of music publishing

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Closing Thoughts

Rory, Maul, and Damaris deliver a rich, winding episode weaving pop culture, knockabout humor, and smart industry talk. The team constantly balances deeply unserious clowning with moments of surprising insight, making even well-worn takes (e.g., mental health day discourse, “cancel culture,” artist authenticity) feel fresh.

Episode Theme:
Celebrating new beginnings, questioning authenticity in a PR-driven culture, and—most of all—showing that even as the show expands, New Rory & MAL’s signature style stays intact: unfiltered, laugh-out-loud, and unafraid to tackle the hot-button debates that keep the podcast world spinning.

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For full context and more hot takes, listen to "New Rory & MAL | Episode 447 | Day and Night" on your favorite streaming service or now, on Netflix.

Transcript

[Damaris]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Mall]

This is US Olympic gold medalist Tara.

[Rory]

Davis Woodhull and I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.

[Mall]

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[Rory]

A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.

[Mall]

So when it came to getting the.

[Rory]

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[Mall]

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[Rory]

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[Mall]

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[Maul]

This is Rob Gronkowski and Julian Edelman.

[Jacob Goldstein]

From Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules. Rob, I've never asked, are you a dips guy? Like the workout? You can't tell. No, I mean for your chips. Oh, I knew that. Yeah, of course. You got to try this new daisies French onion dip. Goes great on Sundays I like the sound of that. Everyone knows you need a good dip for game day. Personally, I like to dip everything I can. Veggies, crackers, chips. Heck, I might even dip a buffalo wing in there.

[Rory]

That reminds me, they also have Daisy's ranch dip.

[Jacob Goldstein]

Now you're speaking my language. Yep, seems like a no brainer on game day.

[Rory]

So get out there and give the French onion dip a try. You won't regret it.

[Mall]

The volume.

[Maul]

No worry.

[Damaris]

And mous.

[Rory]

Welcome to new Rory and Maul on Netflix. Who's excited? Can never get this guy excited.

[Maul]

Hey, we're on Netflix.

[Rory]

Seeing the greatest of shows with this guy. Live performances that blew my mind. And mall. Just not even being on Netflix does anything. It's very stoic.

[Maul]

It's my J Prince right there.

[Rory]

I mean, we do. We do need to do a 23 me with you guys. Somewhere down the line there's some relative.

[Maul]

There, some relations for sure.

[Rory]

But yes. Welcome to our first episode on Netflix. Well, our first new one because we did upload some older episodes just so people that were discovering the show could have an idea. But we. We are here. We have arrived.

[Maul]

We are here.

[Rory]

And in the. The forest of K. Netflix will never be the same.

[Damaris]

It will not, will not.

[Maul]

Read here for Netflix.

[Rory]

Should we do it, like promote this the way they promote all, like the. The new podcast of like, they're going to say the craziest. No one's safe.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

When these guys get on the microphone.

[Maul]

The culture will shift as a result.

[Rory]

The tectonic plates.

[Maul]

Yes. Nothing will be the same. But we are happy to be here at our. On our new home. Yes, Netflix. So yeah, man, let's get to it. Let's have some fun.

[Rory]

Yeah, I have some un. Unnamed champagne here. I'll keep the logo this way, but you know, just. I thought it was a nice, nice gesture. And on a snow day too. I hope Netflix already were complaining alcoholics.

[Maul]

Always need a reason to drink, don't they?

[Rory]

I think being on Netflix is a pretty good. Yeah, pretty good thing. And I was sober through the entire snow experience, so.

[Maul]

Nobody believes that. I swear to God, nobody believes that. You think that helps like you do? People like, yo, I put that on my mama. You don't even talk to you.

[Damaris]

Yo, I sent Rory a me. I sent Rory a tweet.

[Rory]

Okay, Was that close to it?

[Damaris]

No, no, I said Rory yesterday that said it was a girl that said, I swear on my life. And the dude responded was like, you suicidal? Swear on something.

[Maul]

Yeah, like you. Oh, my mama, are you going to.

[Rory]

Be demonetized from Netflix Unalived.

[Damaris]

Can we do that?

[Rory]

I don't know. Keep it, Keep it. Listen, they. They write people live on Netflix. It's in the scripted series.

[Maul]

Yeah, that is true.

[Rory]

It's not like I just say, oh.

[Damaris]

There'S an intimacy coordinator. I feel like we need an intimacy coordinator.

[Rory]

Wait, what is. What do they do?

[Damaris]

So intimacy coordinator is someone that goes on the sets of TV shows, movies and things like that for sex scenes or like any type of, like seeing that. If those two people.

[Maul]

Okay.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

Like, they will make people uncomfortable.

[Maul]

Proper guidelines in place.

[Damaris]

So they like, place like ball and like little cover ups in between nipples. And like, they make sure, like cover ups between nipples. When people are having sex on Netflix Mal, they're not actually having sex. So there needs to be covers.

[Maul]

Get that. But don't cover my nipples. We cover my nipples for not.

[Damaris]

Not your nipples cover her nipples? Yes.

[Maul]

For what?

[Damaris]

So that she's comfortable. She's acting.

[Rory]

The thought of mall with pasties on in the sex scene is just funny.

[Damaris]

She's not really like, she's.

[Maul]

No, I get that part, but I'm saying she's. You don't have to cover the nipples for us to not like, nobody thinks we're really having sex.

[Damaris]

It's not about.

[Maul]

We're not that good.

[Damaris]

But it's uncomfortable for the actor.

[Maul]

Yeah, but we still see nipples though.

[Damaris]

Sometimes. But it's not rubbing.

[Maul]

I've never seen a sex scene and did not see nipples.

[Rory]

What?

[Damaris]

No, there's. Yes, you can. You can have.

[Rory]

I would say majority of, like saw the.

[Maul]

Saw the boob and it was pasties on a nipple.

[Damaris]

No, no, it's like when they're hiding.

[Rory]

Nipple purposely in the scene because it's not maybe R rated. They are covered by things like.

[Maul]

No, I get genitalia being covered. I get that part. But I've never seen like a really good sex scene.

[Damaris]

If I'm doing a scene and I'm laying on my back and there's a man on top of me, there is something in between my erogenous zones so that when he's rubbing against me, it's not uncomfortable for the both of us.

[Maul]

Okay.

[Rory]

All right, so we'll be watching that movie. But you don't see. You don't see it. It's for the actor.

[Maul]

No, I can tell.

[Rory]

I know.

[Maul]

A good sex scene versus a sex scene where they had no chemistry. Those actors had no chemistry. Yeah, those are the ones with the pasties and the erogenous zone blockers. I don't want to see a sex scene with the erogenous zone blockers.

[Rory]

All right, let me try to say disrespectful, because I have a lot of respect for. For Chloe Bailey in that scene in that show that went viral. It was pretty much the trailer to get us to watch him.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

When he's blowing her back out and you see kind of her arch, like, the top of her cheeks, you don't think there was, like, clothes between them there.

[Maul]

They look.

[Rory]

But you can't.

[Maul]

I know that.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Maul]

I'm saying that if. If a woman is.

[Rory]

And she had paid, like, even though her shirt was off, she had things on her tits. You just can't see that.

[Maul]

Okay, okay. All right.

[Rory]

Maybe we're over explaining.

[Maul]

No. No wonder they didn't get a mall Emmy. Like.

[Rory]

I doubt there's been any real. I think it's like a, like, union mandated. You can't just have butt ass sex scenes. Right.

[Damaris]

These are not regular cups. These. This is for the beer.

[Rory]

I clean them. Okay.

[Maul]

Marisa, nobody's drinking that. Don't worry about it. It looks just for the camera. Erogenous zone blockers. That's a celebratory zone blocker.

[Rory]

So what. What would the intimacy counselor do for our show coordinator? Yeah, because that hasn't made one of our sketches yet.

[Damaris]

They would, like, make sure. Okay, we're on. It's so weird because we're on Netflix now, and I'm, like, afraid, like, my aunts are tuned in.

[Rory]

Oh, for sure.

[Damaris]

All the crazy things I would say for the YouTub. I'm over here.

[Maul]

Like, you're afraid to say things on Netflix, but not YouTube?

[Damaris]

Yeah. Just because I feel like Netflix is for the. Like, my aunt and them have Netflix. Like, my. My. My mother has Netflix. My mother's not going to YouTube to watch this show. Like, it's just different. I don't know. It's so easily accessible.

[Rory]

Yeah. I will say I went to my godfather's right before the snowstorm, and it was a bunch of adults there, and they were thrilled that it was on. I was like, oh, I can finally watch it. I was like, you do know YouTube, like, was on your phone. You could have, like. No, I don't know how to do that. I knocked you on my TV and watch it. Yeah, the adults were thrilled. Where your whole older family is. Is going to see all the foul things that you say. And you may want to hire an intimacy coordinator for times like this.

[Damaris]

For, like, times when mall is, like, asking me if I'M ovulating. Like.

[Maul]

Like, I need the intimacy coordinator over here.

[Damaris]

Like, are you okay? Like, is that okay?

[Maul]

But why, though? Like, this is. I can't ask if you're ovulating. What's wrong with that? That's like a major. That's like a. A normal, bodily.

[Rory]

It's. Yeah, it's how the population continues. I understand.

[Maul]

Yeah. I'm just.

[Rory]

You were concerned for the population.

[Maul]

I'm on the side of. If you're ovulating, if you're, you know, on your monthly out. Listen, I'm one of those out. You can take the time off. Like, I'm one of those guys.

[Damaris]

I can take the time off when.

[Rory]

I'm on my monthly.

[Damaris]

Since when? I've been on this podcast for five years. I completely.

[Rory]

Since we're on Netflix.

[Maul]

Okay, Baby D, if you're on your menstrual, okay, you're on your cycle, just send me the app so I can track it, and then I will give you. I have to be able to prove it. I have to be able to prove it. I have to be able to prove that. Yes.

[Rory]

Well, even with the period apps, you personally submit that in there? Oh, they can guess.

[Maul]

But if Baby D gives it to me now, I can kind of track it now.

[Rory]

But what if she switches the birth control and it changes?

[Maul]

She has to birth control. She has to tell me that. As her. As her employer, she has to tell me that.

[Damaris]

Okay, he's left until my. My monthly.

[Maul]

So, okay, so send me the. The date, and then I'll track it from there. And then one day, if you come like, yo, Maul, you know what? I'm cramping. I'm not like, listen, I'll check the app. Yeah, intimacy coordinator, right?

[Rory]

Are you gonna keep push notifications on?

[Maul]

Yes, absolutely. I wanna know when Baby D is ovulating. Okay, cool. You're ovulating.

[Rory]

What noise are you gonna put for.

[Damaris]

You know, in that app, you also track every time you have sex, too. So I don't know if you wanna put your push notifications on February time.

[Maul]

You have. No, I won't get no sleep. My shit'll be going. I'll be like, bing. Oh, Baby D, go to sleep. Baby D, go to bed. Baby D's at it again.

[Damaris]

Yo, go.

[Maul]

Yo, imagine I had push notifications. Oh, Baby D was having sex.

[Damaris]

Yo, please, guys, we're on Netflix. We have to be professional.

[Maul]

Baby D, like, yo, if you don't go, take your horny ass to sleep, man. What's wrong with you?

[Rory]

It's a nasty collab calendar.

[Maul]

Yes. We need it, though. We need to know when Baby D's not feeling well with all women. Not just Baby D, all women. That should be a thing. You're on your monthly. You're not feeling. Women should be able to stay home, man. That's a natural thing.

[Rory]

My favorite story of when a director needed an intimacy coordinator was Dame, when he got sued. And I want to make it clear that Dame beat this case. They never say when Dame beats the lawsuits. He was directing a movie and he told a woman he was too uncomfortable to talk about sex with her and direct her that way. So he gave her a porno DP and said, yo, go watch this.

[Maul]

You know what I'm saying? Intimacy. What is it? Coordinator. Intimacy coordinator.

[Rory]

Counselor. But you gotta understand, the way Dame explained it, he was like, no, I was doing the respectful thing. It would have been disrespectful if I went to her, like, I need you to suck like this. Fuck like this to me. I felt that was too inappropriate.

[Maul]

Watch this.

[Rory]

So I was like, yo, here you go. Like, do what they do on you.

[Maul]

Do what they do.

[Rory]

Go in the car and come back.

[Damaris]

Go in the car.

[Maul]

Got seven minutes to get back in or flick the bean. Come back, let's get to the scene. Flick the bean, get to the scene.

[Rory]

How do you think you doing a scripted sex scene? Not really having sex. Like, I've thought about that.

[Maul]

Who would you want to ask about that? Last night, underneath you?

[Rory]

Somebody I wasn't attracted.

[Maul]

Wait, you hit Baby D? She always try to at work.

[Damaris]

I would want somebody I wasn't attracted to. Like, I don't want my biggest crush, you know what I'm saying, as an actor. Because then, you know, it gets uncomfortable. It get real uncomfortable.

[Maul]

Because I can't. You might get an Oscar.

[Damaris]

I can't turn myself on.

[Maul]

You might get an Oscar.

[Rory]

He might slip it in by accident.

[Maul]

See, that's why. That's why he needs an intimacy coordinating counselor.

[Damaris]

No, that's what.

[Rory]

Essentially because she's into him is what I'm saying.

[Damaris]

Yeah. I can't. I don't think. No, I would rather somebody I'm not attracted to.

[Maul]

I've never. Explain that. Explain that.

[Damaris]

Because it's work. It's the same thing where I wouldn't want a podcast with somebody that I'm attracted to. Like, it's work. No, I mean, like, no shade to y'. All.

[Rory]

No shady talking about.

[Maul]

Why wouldn't you want to?

[Damaris]

Because if I'm like, if I find you cute in it. Like, it's distract. It's a distraction. Are you seeing what I'm saying? Because then I'm flirting. I'm not active, like, with y'.

[Rory]

All.

[Damaris]

I'm actively, like, being funny, being a personality. If I'm attracted to them. Like, I'm like, I'm putting on my best riz. Like, it's just. It's a distraction.

[Rory]

I can. I'm an adult. I can have a personalized. Those two different things for. For sure. Like, I mean, not every day you want to be funnier. Maybe when you're sitting there. But that just makes for a better pie. But I could contain myself from, like, really trying to flirt.

[Damaris]

Oh.

[Maul]

Because I'm attracted to somebody.

[Damaris]

It's not even. Just. Even if. Even if you aren't acting on it, it's a distraction. Like, if I'm looking at Rory, like, damn, yo, he looks so good. I'm distracted. I can't. I can't.

[Rory]

But you pod for a living. I feel like you could fight through the urges. How handsome I am every day. Oh, yeah. Okay. I was thinking more, like, not a yes episode.

[Damaris]

No. Every day.

[Rory]

Every day. Working with somebody. Every day that you really want to. Yeah, that.

[Damaris]

That's. That's tough.

[Rory]

At that point, I would probably try to turn off that in the brain. Like, now it's. We work together now. Like, this is. We've decided this is never gonna happen again because we work together.

[Maul]

I'm about to say I've dealt with that. Like, when I was working, like, I've had jobs with women that I was attracted to, but once you work with them for, like, you know, two, three months, you don't even look at them like that.

[Damaris]

Yeah, well, once you date somebody, once you get to know anyone, a crush is just a lack of information. So once you know somebody for more than three minutes, you be like, ugh, Nah, I understand why.

[Maul]

Well, it can go both ways. Because you can have a crush on somebody, and then once you really get to know him, like, damn, I really.

[Damaris]

Like this person I know.

[Maul]

Or they. Excuse me.

[Damaris]

No, go ahead.

[Maul]

Or they can say something that will turtle, like, turn you off completely, and you're just like, you know something.

[Rory]

Like, okay, just put a beat there.

[Maul]

She was so hot.

[Rory]

It's funny that that's your.

[Maul]

She was so hot.

[Rory]

Not if, like, hey, you have kids or, like, anything like that. That's the one that puts it over the edge.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Yeah. Sometimes getting what you wish for is the absolute worst. Like, have you even kind of. I Don't want to say red flags, because that's. But just, like, a little annoyances. In the first 30 days, you're like, we'll push through these. She's that. That bad. And then 90 days in, you're like, this is the most annoying bad bitch I've ever seen in my entire life. I totally understand why nobody has stayed with her longer than a year.

[Maul]

Yeah. And then. But not only that. When you're working with somebody that's attractive, you first meet them. Like, damn, who's the new girl that just got hired? Yo, she's bad. Because I've been through that. All the homies go peak. Like, you're not. She nice. After, like, three months, a couple conversations, you like, that's Angela, man. I'm saying she cute, but it's just like, that's Angela. Like, that's.

[Rory]

But sometimes it works out. Remember those two news anchors that cheated on their spouses? And I think they're together now. Like, sometimes that's your soulmate. That's your twin flame sitting next to you.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And they probably figured that out on the air. That chemistry showed up there that made them get like, yo, fuck my family. Yeah, this is where I need to be. Like, work and here.

[Damaris]

You can't let your family keep you from the love of your life.

[Rory]

I'm lying.

[Damaris]

More. More. A lot more.

[Maul]

No, that's from. That's from the Book of Nicodemus. I love that book.

[Rory]

I read that the amount of children that have grown up fatherless because of that theory and then ended up robbing us is the reason why you shouldn't do that.

[Maul]

My homeboy had a really cute girl that was working in his store, and the other day, I was like, yo, what's the cute. Because I hadn't seen a while. Every time, like, I go visit, I'm like, yo, where's the girl that used to work? He's like, nah, I fired her. I was like, damn, what happened? He's like, yo, she called out one day to go protest.

[Damaris]

Isn't that, like, protected? Like, you can't fire somebody for that small.

[Rory]

Not on the mall side of what the protest is. We don't need to put a name on the protest. Protest I support. You can't just not go to work that day.

[Maul]

You can't not go to work because you want to go protest.

[Damaris]

Hold.

[Maul]

Protected. This. This job is protected.

[Rory]

You realize? All right, if that was the case, I could open up my phone and find a protest every day, every week.

[Maul]

I.

[Damaris]

But I think that that's I think that's different.

[Rory]

And even that, like in the, in mid 2010s when the protests were going crazy. Yeah. They got crazier after 6pm because people had to go to work.

[Damaris]

Oh yeah. At will employment. In most states, like New York, employers can fire people for any reason. Including protesting.

[Rory]

Yeah. Oh, I mean I, I can see how it can get into the weeds of what you're protesting this and that. But if you just be like, yo, I'm not coming into work because I'm going to protest, to me that's an easy fire. It's like, I think there's companies that be like, hey, if you. We fully support this, everyone's going to take the day. We're taking a Wednesday off for all of us to go do that. If you don't want to do it, take the day off. I could see that. But just somebody calling in like, nah.

[Maul]

I'm going to protest.

[Rory]

Oh, I mean, you had. First of all, you have sick days. Just say.

[Damaris]

That's another thing I never understood. Like when people like even like for example, when me and my homegirls go on vacation and they like, yo, I don't know what I'm gonna tell my job. Tell them you ain't coming in. I don't understand why you feel like you have to give them an excuse. Oh, I'm sick. Oh, I don't feel good. Oh, my grandmother died. I'm not coming in today for personal reasons, period. They don't have to ask you. They ask you. I don't. It's for, it's for personal reasons.

[Maul]

I said, when they fire you can. They said we fired you for personal.

[Damaris]

They can't fire you for not coming in for personal reasons. They cannot fire.

[Maul]

They can have a personal reason for firing you.

[Damaris]

I mean, it's at will employment. You can fire me, but you better make sure that you cross your eyes and dotted your cues or whatever the. Because I'm calling.

[Maul]

I used to dot my cues.

[Rory]

I mean, you kind of cross. A Q is just an O that's like halfway across.

[Damaris]

They gotta slash it or something like that. Whatever you. Because I'm calling them folk if it's.

[Rory]

If it's a one time thing. Yeah, of course. Like you can't ask somebody if that's not their character. Like they're not calling out or showing up late all the time and they're just like, yo, I have some personal things going on. Cool. But if that happens all the time.

[Damaris]

You'Re, well, yeah, but that's anything if anything happens all the time.

[Rory]

I know a lot of parents with some older kids that tell me they allow their kids to have a few personal days from school. Well, I think that is cool and important, and I'm a big advocate of mental health. Put better help ad here. Life doesn't care about your personal days. Like, are we preparing your kids that in the right way? I think the real world does not care about your personal shit.

[Damaris]

I understand that, but it's not about them.

[Rory]

And I don't want my kid to fudgeing, implode, and go nuts. I get it. But I'm still on the side of how I was raised. Like, no, you're going to school about your personal problem.

[Damaris]

Is that, like, working for you? Like, working through your mental health issues, coming to work and doing everything you got to do? How's that working for you?

[Rory]

What do you mean?

[Damaris]

You think you're like, okay, or you think you could use some personal days?

[Maul]

I could definitely use some personal days. I, me, myself, I could definitely use some personal days.

[Rory]

Yeah. And I think it's case by case basis of what happens in school, because school can be a very dangerous, scary, full of anxiety type of environment for some kids. And I can identify and understand that. But if you cool and you just want a day off, that's not how the world works. Okay? No, that's fine with me. Here's the thing. The world don't work that way. We have to put these episodes up. I. I signed a contract. I have to do this because I said I was going to do it. And that's how the world works. So, yeah, even though I don't want to come in here on certain days, I'm shoveling my car out Monday morning with Amara screaming her fucking head off in the backseat, and I'm coming here.

[Damaris]

And all of those are choices that you made yourself as a kid. You did not make the choice to go to school or be boring. You actually have no say in any of that shit. You don't even get to choose what fucking classes you're taking when you're in middle school. So, I mean, me personal, I'm not gonna. I feel like it's a kid by kid basis and a case by case basis, like. Cause I know my kid gonna wake me up one day. I'm gonna go to wake my kid up one day, like, yo, you gotta go to school. And they gonna look at me and be like, ma, I really can't do it today. And I'm gonna look at them like, yo, we in the house. I can't do it again either. Like, whatever.

[Rory]

So here's the thing. I'm not saying I even stand on either side with this, because I do get. And listen, if Amara comes in her room, in my room, crying in fourth grade of saying, like, I just can't do it today, you think I'm gonna turn into a drill sergeant? No. My fucking heart is gonna melt. And I'm gonna be like, just stay here. But as my freshman football coach said every single time, if you quit during double sessions, yeah, it'll be easy. Nothing wrong will happen in your life, but it'll make the next thing easier to quit. And then you'll just start a fucking pattern of quitting when things are a little rough that morning. And now you're just this soft person.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

That's gonna sit there like, well, the last time I said I wasn't going into school, everything was fine. And then that just leads to you doing it all the time, and now you're a fucking dropout, and now you're.

[Maul]

Sucking dick behind 711 for oxies.

[Rory]

Exactly. Because oxies make you feel better.

[Maul]

You didn't want to go to school.

[Rory]

So, I mean, I see both sides, I guess. I'm asking everyone in the room what that balance looks like. That's all. I don't have the answer.

[Maul]

My nephew has this new thing of where he says it's illegal. So, like, he told my sister, it's illegal for kids to go outside when it's 20 degrees. Like, he thinks that's gonna keep him from going to school, but he don't know that it's illegal for the teachers to take them outside for recess. So he. But he thinks it's illegal to just leave the house. Like, this nigga tried all kinds of shit not to go to school. Yo, it's illegal, nigga. No. You getting on that bus, you gonna be outside for 10 seconds, then get on a hot bus, then get off the bus in school for 10 seconds and go in a hot school building.

[Rory]

Now, I kind of. I respect that more than a mental health day. At least you're trying to work the system that's working you.

[Maul]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, it's illegal for kids.

[Rory]

I see what you're trying to. It's illegal for the real world for.

[Maul]

The teachers to take kids outside for recess if it's below 35 degrees. I think something like that. But he thinking, like, once he hits. Illegal for kids. He thinking like, oh, no, I can't even leave my house to Leave the house. Like, he trying to play that card now.

[Damaris]

That's so cute.

[Maul]

Yeah, he'll be in school tomorrow.

[Rory]

That. See, that would almost convince me. Like, you made a good argument. You're wrong as fuck. But I appreciate the attempt.

[Maul]

That ain't working on my sister. That ain't happening.

[Rory]

No, of course not.

[Damaris]

I feel like there's a balance. I feel like I would. I would. From the beginning of the school year, you get. You get two mental health days, a school year to a school year. I feel like that's.

[Rory]

But what we doing during those mental health days? You playing Xbox, if that's what you need to do.

[Maul]

You've had mental health days from school before.

[Damaris]

Well, back, I couldn't do that. My mother was like, go to school. I just would skip. Like, you see what I'm saying? So, like, that's not something new that. That kids are just not.

[Maul]

But why didn't you want to go to school, though?

[Damaris]

There were times where, especially middle school, it's just so. Especially as a girl, there's so much drama and just weird shit that's going on and people that are supposed to be your friends or talking behind your back and then somebody's messing with a boy they're not supposed to be with. And when you're young, you just feel you don't want to go to school.

[Maul]

Because people told behind your back, just.

[Damaris]

It could be anything. When you're a kid, shit just feels heavier, like.

[Rory]

And I know that sucks, but that doesn't change in the office. That doesn't change in adult worlds.

[Damaris]

No, it doesn't. It does not change.

[Rory]

And it sucks to say, but you kind of have to get not used to it or think it's okay, but get exposed to it so it doesn't affect you in a way that's going to cripple you as an adult.

[Damaris]

But shit like that goes on for a week, two weeks. If you take one one day out of that two weeks, it's not like you're avoiding the problem. It's just like, yo, today I can't deal with this shit.

[Rory]

I hip check kids at the playground that even touch Amara. Like, I'm with you. If I find out that there's been a week that she's been bullied by the same group of girls is, yeah, it's going to be time. What's their last names? Yeah, with my address, dot com. We find in their parents and we're going from there.

[Damaris]

Bullying I would never let my kid run from now you're not Running from bullying. But when sometimes you're just overwhelmed. Like, you got a lot of fudgeing homework, you got all these fucking classes. Shit not going right with your friends. You can. You got sports, you got that. Sometimes kids. I get overwhelmed as an adult from dealing with a whole bunch of shit. So when you're a kid and you got all of that going on, it's not weird for you to overwhelmed. So I used to skip. Like, I would skip a class or skip two classes and go put my headphones on, put on all the drake rares from YouTube and sit underneath the steps with my headphones in and not the first two classes.

[Maul]

You was one of the weird girls.

[Damaris]

I wasn't weird.

[Maul]

Like, if I saw you sitting under a bleach, I was like, it was weird already. What's she doing?

[Damaris]

Not the bleach, but, like in the basement where the gym is, like, where nobody ever really goes. You know, the art class basement. Like that. Yeah. And just be. Have my hoodie on with my headphones and just be in my own little girl.

[Rory]

But, I mean, of course there's stuff wrong with that. But I don't think what I'm saying is what you're saying. I skipped school all the time. And it wasn't to do progressive things, but, I mean, it still was things that taught me about life. Like, I wasn't literally just being like, yo, I'm so anxious just so I could trick my mom so I could play PS2 for the rest of the day. Like, that's where I'm saying the mental health shit could just be used and. Which is a perfect segue to gay, which we'll get to. But, I mean, that's what I'm more on the side of. Well, you're not about. Just because you don't feel like going to school that day doesn't mean that you're not going to school that day.

[Damaris]

Yeah, well, I think that that makes sense. But your kids know how to manipulate you. You know how to manipulate your parents. I know how to manipulate mine.

[Maul]

Work the system.

[Damaris]

Yeah, like you're. Work this parent. Your kids know how to manipulate you. So you could say, my kid won't be able to get this or get this one off, but your kid will be able to get one off. And as a parent, you just gotta learn to deal with that.

[Maul]

I mean, I think it's. It's not even your kid getting it off. I think, you know, when your kid is trying to be slick and sometimes as a parent, you just be like, you Know what? All right, you can stay home, but you know what they pulling. You know, they not sick. It's like, yo, you just had those days where kids just don't want to get up. You've had those days. You didn't want to get up, get dressed, go to school. Like you just was tired or whatever, but you weren't sick. Like, I used to play. I don't feel good. I feel great. I just didn't feel like getting on a train, going all the way to Harlem and going to school. I didn't feel like doing that. But I wasn't sick. I wasn't at home coughing and had a fever. None of that. I just. I'm like, damn, I gotta get. I gotta go to school.

[Damaris]

Like, especially days like this, going to.

[Maul]

School, it's cold outside, it's nasty outside. I'm like, man, this is for what. But then I noticed that it be times where you feel like that you go to school before, you know, the school day is over. School really isn't that bad.

[Damaris]

School is. I. I used to enjoy school when I was a kid. So school is fun. Some days it ain't, but school is.

[Maul]

Usually fun, especially by school. Not fun. Like, what. What was it about that day where it was like school didn't feel fun today? It was probably something petty, like you and one of your homegirls was beefing about something. I wasn't speaking.

[Damaris]

Yeah, but when you were a boy.

[Rory]

That you feel so much bigger, you liked.

[Maul]

Like you saw him holding another girl's hand in the hallway. Like the other period. Like, now all of a sudden, this week sucks. It's like, no, it doesn't. Like, this week is fine. Like, you just are upset about something, and as a kid, you don't know how to handle your emotions and things like that. So you run from it. I don't wanna go today. I'm not going to school. Why? I don't feel good. That's not why that boy didn't call you back or he's flirting with another girl, or you don't wanna deal with that. And I think as parents, you know that. Cause you dealt with it, right? And then when it's your turn, you have kids, you know, like, oh, okay. And that's when you have the conversation with your kid. Like, yo, so what's going on? What's going on in school? What happened? Cause, you know, it ain't that they sick. It's not. Your kid is not sick. Your kid is fine. They just don't feel like dealing with the social aspect of being in the school today. That's what it is.

[Rory]

Now before you get to that world.

[Maul]

Okay, I gotta tell you something. We're back. Sponsored by Boost Mobile. Unlimited talk, text and data.

[Rory]

Perfect segue. I don't know what it's like to be in school now with a phone, I can assume a lot more weird bullying, weird drama, shit happening.

[Maul]

Oh my God, I wish I had a smartphone in high school. Are you kidding me?

[Damaris]

I had a smartphone.

[Rory]

Maybe I would need a fucking mental health day if I had a smart smartphone in junior high and high school. Like, yeah, maybe I would have needed one because this is. No, I can't even escape all the way to midnight. I'm able to talk with everybody that I go to high school with.

[Damaris]

So they want to take the crazy, they want to take the phones out of. I mean, but I could. We were talk.

[Rory]

I used to be, don't get me wrong. But come on, when I was in.

[Damaris]

High school then and now, Facebook and Twitter were big. When I was in high school, we.

[Rory]

Had MySpace and Facebook. But like it wasn't like we didn't live and breathe it.

[Damaris]

Nah, we lived and breathed Facebook when I was kidding.

[Maul]

I envy kids being in high school now that have like Instagram and shit. Nah, I wish I had that. Imagine if I had a smartphone. And in between classes I get to interview kids in the school by how they feeling. Like I would pod in between classes, like real quick, three minutes, like, yo, so how you felt about that last class? You jacking the teacher? You jacking up?

[Rory]

You jacking the teacher?

[Maul]

I would be lit and I don't know, like social media. If I had it, I'm outta here.

[Rory]

Even doing like teacher recaps for, for the underclassmen. Yeah, like you could go back a year to CEO. I took the same class. Look at all my reviews.

[Maul]

Yeah, give your teacher reviews for the day.

[Damaris]

Well, they have that. Well, it was mainly in college. RateMyProfessor.com because I used to use that. But you have to understand these kids, from what I see, my friend's kids, my ex's daughter, they have so much pressure on them because for example, the girls have. It's just too much access. So now these 18 year old girls, 17 year old girls don't look 18, don't look 17. They got bust down weaves. They out here wearing the same that we wearing. We, we got the same fashion nova outfit on. And then the little boys that are competing with them are competing with these that are playing college Hoops. Because everybody has access to everybody. Everybody feels like they should look the way that everybody else looks on Instagram. There's no blurred lines of this person is an adult and this person is a teenager. It's very weird for them. The kids are coming home, asking poor kids. Not regular kid. Like, not like, well off kids. Like, poor kids. We from the hood. These little. Is asking for a Mary's for their birthday, for their 15th birthday, for high school.

[Maul]

What?

[Damaris]

Why you want thousand dollar jeans? Y' all all competing. Like, why are y'. All. That's. It's weird. It's very, very weird.

[Rory]

They don't know. It's like two pairs. Black jeans, blue jeans. Yo, that's what you got.

[Damaris]

That first.

[Rory]

That better lasts for the whole year of school.

[Damaris]

Them old. The old schools. Beef and broccoli's. What was the first day of school? Shoes. Old schools.

[Rory]

Beef and broccoli, Beef and Brocks on the first day.

[Damaris]

Pair of Jordans.

[Maul]

What's old schools?

[Damaris]

Old school. White on whites. Air Force ones.

[Maul]

That's what y'. All never old school.

[Rory]

We call them old schools in upstate A ones. There was always old schools.

[Maul]

Old schools. That's cr. I've never heard that before.

[Damaris]

White on whites are old schools. I didn't even notice that that was upstate slang until y' all just didn't know what I was talking about.

[Maul]

Old schools. I've never heard air forces be called old schools.

[Rory]

And how cold is it in Syracuse that on the first day of school, you wearing beef and brocks?

[Damaris]

We used to. They used to wear that like it was cool.

[Rory]

Like, it was like, I love beef and Brock.

[Damaris]

Like, you didn't. There was no snow on the ground.

[Rory]

Just put their version of trying to steal beef and Brock says these, so.

[Damaris]

But the first Montclair sneaker slash boots on.

[Rory]

I like these boots.

[Maul]

Good boot.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I mean, there's elements outside.

[Maul]

Run from police.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Maul]

Jump over snowbanks.

[Rory]

Yeah. Before we get to Kanye taking his mental health day from school, how did you guys handle. Handle the snowstorm? Because Damaris was talking like we was locked up for a week. I had to remind her that the Snow day was 12 hours.

[Damaris]

I know, but I ain't left the crib since Thursday when we recorded.

[Rory]

I think because of your health scare, you were already, like, locked up, and then you had a day of freedom, and then parole came.

[Damaris]

I'm locked up again.

[Rory]

Yeah. You had to go right back.

[Damaris]

Yeah. And like I said, like I was telling Rory, I'm like, yo, I love being single. Like, Being single is for me. But when all your homegirls is like, they locked in with a nigga and you just in the house. I was in the house rocking like this. You can only watch so much long order. Like, you go, I only deal with so much rape. So I'm just sitting up there like.

[Maul]

Well, that's why you gotta get off of Law and Order and watch something else. You can't be watching Law and Order and you locked in the house. That's torture.

[Rory]

That's a snow. That's a snow day special, though. And mental health is sick day. You just watch Law and Order.

[Damaris]

But like, three to four days I was in there, man. I was just cooking random shit. Like, shit don't even go together. Why am I boiling apples? Like, I'm just doing shit. You know what I'm saying?

[Rory]

Like, yo, I did the same fucking thing. I made wings in the crock pot early so they could cook for like, six hours for the second game. And then I just. I bought all this food for no fucking reason. I started making bolognese, and my dad is like, wait, we got chicken wings over here. You about to make Bolognese? I was like, I'm making everything. Yeah, fuck, I'm just putting shit together today.

[Maul]

Grocery shopping was dumb. Like, I bought all. I bought these groceries and I cooked breakfast. That was it. Everything else, I was just like, yeah, damn, I have nothing to eat. And I was just looking at shit.

[Damaris]

In the fridge like, bro, I did an instacart order. My original instacart order was $120. My final receipt. Only $45, cuz. Nothing was available. Them niggas ain't have avocados, green beans, green peppers, sliced cheese, sliced turkey. I said, you went crazy.

[Maul]

What day was day was this?

[Damaris]

This was Saturday morning.

[Maul]

Oh, nah, you a rookie. I know you're supposed to. Friday, Thursday, Friday, you supposed to get that. I know Saturday morning, that's the apocalypse is 12 hours away. Like, you supposed to get that days before. You wait till 12. 12 hours left before the apocalypse. Nah, ain't gonna be nothing on the shelves. My homegirls, Mitch and Major, shout out to Mitch and Major. I told them Thursday. I'm like, yo, listen, y' all better get some groceries. Cause it's gonna be. You know what I mean? Sunday is gonna be rough. Y' all ain't gonna be in the house no good. They're like, it ain't gonna be nothing. They always say that. I'm like, all right, guess who FaceTimed me together Sunday afternoon, hungry, talking about, they ain't got no groceries. I'm looking at the phone. I told y'. All, Thursday, go get groceries. Everybody thought this storm Pee's was another one. Like, nah, this storm is weak.

[Damaris]

It is weak. But everybody else, perception is everything. Everybody else acted like it was the worst in the world. So now groceries ain't available because everybody took it. Like, everybody went, great.

[Maul]

No, the storm wasn't weak, though. That was a legit snowstorm we got.

[Damaris]

Yeah, but it wasn't that bad.

[Maul]

What?

[Damaris]

I'm from upstate. That was nothing. If I could, like, today I was able to walk outside. It's not that bad.

[Maul]

Well, that's because they do a great job of, you know, shoveling the sidewalks and things like that. But it's a lot of snow outside for this era. Yeah, that's a lot of snow for.

[Rory]

The last four or five years. Yes, this. This was a lot. But back to kids that take mental health days. It was fine, though. Like, it. It really wasn't that. That crazy.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

This used to be a very regular thing.

[Maul]

But I was happy that they had.

[Rory]

Chinese food Major in them, because, I mean, they'll deliver.

[Maul]

I don't know what they deliver food.

[Rory]

To me during hurricane season.

[Maul]

Well, Major. Major had food from Saturday that she ordered and didn't eat, so she ate that Sunday. So she had to live like a fugitive for 24 hours. But I'm sure she's fine.

[Rory]

Do you. I mean, I know not now. How do you decide who your companion is going to be for the snow day? When you're single.

[Maul]

You don't. You do what you've always done.

[Rory]

She comes through that night, and when you wake up, she snowed in.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Nah.

[Maul]

You setting up for the. Nah, nah, nah. If a girl came to see you Saturday, she knew she was staying with you all day. Sunday fair. The woman knew she was not leaving your house.

[Rory]

But if you're like, somebody, like P is like, nah, it's gonna be fine. I'll just leave in the morning. Cause there's been times with inclement weather that I went to somebody's house. Like, I leave in the morning, and then there was no way I was leaving in the morning.

[Maul]

Y' all are rookies. I would never.

[Rory]

That was. It's learning experience.

[Maul]

I would never go to a woman's house planning to leave the next day when it's supposed to be a snowstorm. If I go to a woman's house and the day before a snowstorm, I plan on staying there through the Snowstorm. There is no. I'm stuck here. Yeah, not stuck. Nowhere as a grown man. It's not happening.

[Rory]

All right, so you did it. Dolo.

[Maul]

Dolo Watched the games, chilled in the crib. That was it, man. Had food. I had some hot cocoa. I was good, man.

[Rory]

That's cute.

[Maul]

Yeah, that was it. All right.

[Damaris]

You vegan. So it was with water. That's nasty.

[Maul]

You got me twisted. You think I drink hot chocolate with water?

[Rory]

Yeah. What else would you do with oat milk, Rory?

[Maul]

Oh, my bad. Same thing you put in your coffee.

[Rory]

Coffee.

[Maul]

Yeah, I did.

[Rory]

That's ah. That is vegan.

[Damaris]

Oh, yeah.

[Maul]

Oat milk makes you always got vegan water. Carrots.

[Rory]

Carrots is funny up. Oh, carrots.

[Maul]

Oh, carrots. He ate carrots all day Sunday.

[Rory]

I didn't think. I didn't think you were Rudolph. I just, you know.

[Maul]

No, y' all be acting like. Yeah, oat milk y' all never had.

[Rory]

It's actually the only milk.

[Damaris]

I've had it. I've had it with oat milk.

[Maul]

Yeah, Fire.

[Rory]

Okay, mall. I see that Damaris is over there on a phone that is not the all new iPhone Pro 17, designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever.

[Damaris]

What?

[Rory]

Like, what is that?

[Maul]

Is that a flip phone?

[Rory]

Yeah. Are you concerned about traffic or someone trying to transfer all your data?

[Maul]

You got no snowstorm updates on that phone.

[Rory]

Well, good news, Damaris. I know you're sitting over there. If you go to boost mobile, they will send an expert to your home and deliver your brand new iPhone 17 Pro. So you don't have to have that sour look that you have on your face right now while you're scrolling through what it was that an iPhone 12 boost mobile would never.

[Maul]

If you visit boostmobile.com to get started delivery available for select devices [e-mail] terms of blocks.

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[Rory]

Well, yes. Back to our mental health day. Kanye finally took one and did a nice dissertation in op ed. Wall Street Journal. I believe this was took out. It took out a whole ad because I don't even think it's an article. I just think he took out a long ass ad in the Wall Street Journal starting out with to those I've hurt. And I mean, I'll save everyone for the time. For the most part, he's suggesting that after his accident that we all know started through the wire, he said that that damaged his frontal lobe, which could have, you know, led him to further further diagnosis of bipolar disorder. Doctors were telling me he had, you know, small signs of autism to begin, but he was suggesting that this went undiagnosed and untreated and it led him to hurt a lot of people. It led him to loving the swastika. It's who owns Lexus. Because I, I know Kanye hit his face on the steering wheel of his Lexus when he got in a car accident. I'm just curious how that landed on a swastika.

[Maul]

But yeah, well, because he probably hit the Lexus logo and then it, and then it kind of good. Yeah, it was kind of, kind of.

[Rory]

Like how you reverse the chat GBT logo and it turns in. Never mind. So, yeah, he was apologizing for a lot of his behavior over the years. He understands that he's hurt a lot of people. He went into a long, long description of what bipolar is and how it's diagnosed and how the doctors that he had suggested that that wasn't the case. And now his wife, after he hit rock bottom, suggested that he get some more help. And I think now he has fully accepted that he does have bipolar type one. And he wanted to apologize to everyone the week before Bully comes out.

[Damaris]

Stop. So y' all don't, y' all don't forgive him?

[Rory]

No, no, see, I want to see what y' all gonna say because everyone cares about mental health till it's time to care about mental health. What's up? I, I like this because I think every white actor that has lost his mind off drugs, done some wild shit on Hollywood Boulevard, always has their moment when they sit down with Diane Sawyer and like, yo, I, I, I was going crazy. I had mental health. And we all wrap our arms around them and love them.

[Maul]

No, we don't.

[Rory]

White actors are allowed to have Mental breakdowns and then get right back to the place they were supposed to be.

[Maul]

No.

[Rory]

I have been on this podcast saying millions of things I disagree with Kanye west about.

[Maul]

That's not true.

[Rory]

But now I'm saying, why can't he get the same luxury as. As. As other people?

[Maul]

That's not true. Because if that's the case, nobody forgave Mel Gibson for his rent.

[Rory]

He was just on Joe Rogan where everyone's like, yo, it's got.

[Maul]

That don't mean that. Don't mean that don't mean that don't mean people forgave him and wrap their arms around him. Nobody forgave Hulk Hogan. He's still a racist.

[Rory]

Well, he's dead.

[Maul]

He probably has more reason to have CTE and concussions than anybody.

[Rory]

Wait, wait.

[Maul]

He's been getting body slams for seven.

[Rory]

If you don't think people forgave Hulk Hogan.

[Maul]

Who?

[Rory]

Hulk Hogan never had a point in his whole career.

[Maul]

Nobody forgave Hulk Hogan.

[Rory]

Never once did it, bro.

[Maul]

When he died. When he died and people was posting about him on social media, there were people clowning people for that. Like, oh, y' all are really okay.

[Rory]

Social media is not a real place to what you're saying. It doesn't matter what people saying. Where did he ever take a loss in fame, Money, money, jobs?

[Damaris]

Never.

[Rory]

His career only went up.

[Damaris]

Never.

[Rory]

The more videos we got of him cucking someone else's wife and using the N word. I think he got another WWE deal.

[Maul]

No, I don't think so. I don't think after that, like, well, he was probably already done wrestling.

[Rory]

He was definitely done wrestling. No, no, no. I mean, like, he kept working. He was still the face of what wrestling was. He did commentating, like, Hulk Hogan never went away. He had reality shows. He had.

[Maul]

He didn't do no commentating. What you talking about? Yeah, like, what are you talking about?

[Rory]

Because he's a heel. You guys don't understand the game. Like, I understand.

[Maul]

You don't understand the fact that people did not forgive him.

[Rory]

You really think Hulk Hogan was canceled, people?

[Maul]

Yes. Yes, yes.

[Rory]

I don't think so.

[Maul]

People were mad that people were saying, rest in peace to Hulk Hogan.

[Damaris]

Okay, but. Okay, I'm saying, here's this thing. Negativity tends to be commented, right? People don't comment good things. They only comment bad things. So if you go in a comment section and it's full of bad things, it doesn't mean that people only think bad things. It just means that people who have negative opinions are more Likely to comment. That doesn't mean that nobody forgave him. That's not true. There's plenty of people.

[Maul]

I'm sure. I'm sure some of his hardcore fans gave him.

[Damaris]

The majority of his hardcore fans. Look at Hulk audience. They don't care about him being racist.

[Maul]

He was never forgiven for that, though. And I'm talking about our community. He was never forgiven for that.

[Damaris]

Okay, that's. That's in our community.

[Maul]

But he probably had. He probably had.

[Rory]

I saw a lot of black people.

[Maul]

Some frontal lobe injuries. He probably had concussions. I'm pretty sure he could have used this same excuse of I hit my head and I. My frontal lobe was damaged.

[Damaris]

He could have. But everybody has always known that. That Kanye's family has been coming out and saying that he was bipolar for years and that he needs to take meds. He was the one fighting against it. But people have come out forever and said, Kanye is bipolar. He needs to take meds. That's not. Like, this isn't a new, like thing.

[Maul]

None of this is new.

[Damaris]

Yeah, his mania.

[Rory]

Even 2015, he was doing stuff with Stone Cold Steve Austin as wwe. Tough is enough that he was a commentator on, like, he's. He. He kept going. He was a judge. He was a judge on the sixth season of this.

[Damaris]

Yeah. You can't get canceled when the. When. By. By yourself fan base. So Hulk Hogan can't be canceled by black people. Like, that's not his main fan base. Just the same thing. Like, Kanye can't be completely canceled by white people. Like, they white people. If all white people start hating Kanye, it doesn't mean that Kanye is canceled. Kanye came from the black community. We brought him up and pitched him. So it's up to us to cancel him. And we did not do that. We tried. We fake tried, but we never collectively came and canceled Kanye. Like, Kanye was not really canceling canceled.

[Maul]

Oh, you can be canceled. When you wake up and see that being in your account. No more. That's canceled. That's the only cancel I care about. I don't care what you. On social media.

[Rory]

Well, I'm curious because you've been.

[Maul]

That beer's gone. Oh, I've been canceled.

[Rory]

You. You've said for years on podcasting, which. Which I've agreed and been stand corrected a lot of times with you. Like when we went to the Daniel Caesar show at. In an arena, you said, nobody has ever been canceled. Like, you can't really get canceled. Hulk Hogan was not canceled.

[Maul]

I will say. I say your fans don't cancel you. Okay, people that supported you. Whenever you see somebody being canceled or people calling for somebody to be canceled, nine times out of 10, it's somebody that never even supported them. It's never your fans. Because if you say something right now, Rory, your fans.

[Rory]

Not on Netflix.

[Maul]

But. Not on Netflix. But your fans probably know the context. They probably know you know.

[Rory]

What does it mean? Yeah, I love it.

[Maul]

They know you. They follow you. Now, somebody that don't know you, don't follow, they just hear something here, a clip they like, oh, what is he? Oh, he's canceled. They don't know you. They don't know the tone. They don't know the context. They don't know. They don't get your humor. So when you see people trying to be canceled or calling for somebody to be canceled, find somewhere where they ever even supported who they were trying to cancel.

[Rory]

Yeah, no, that's why I said. I stand corrected. When you've said that before. So that's why I'm going with the same logic that you have here. I don't think Hulk Hogan was ever really canceled. I think when he died, yes, there was people on Twitter that were mad, especially at black people that were saying, rest in peace to him. But I don't think that equates to him being canceled, per se. And Kanye, for the most part, if you were to have a definition of it, yes, it would be him going on Drink Champs in saying, I could say anti Semitic things and Adidas would never drop me. And then Adidas dropped him the two days later.

[Maul]

Right?

[Rory]

Yes, that's a vert. But not all of us have access to things that can really be canceled, more or less. Like, I don't have a billion dollars. And if a company has the ability to take that away from me, yeah, you kind of just canceled me. But Kanye, in his own right, despite even the insane things he's done, is an extremely creative and smart guy. So even if you take a billion dollars from him, he's going to find a way to make more money. He's not a fluke as far as creativity.

[Maul]

No, no, no. He's talented. His talent is legit.

[Rory]

So why. Why this? Why this now? Do we. Do we think this is something that he actually feels?

[Maul]

Well, that's what I was going to say. The one thing that I don't like about this, the whole ad or page in the Wall Street Journal, all of this is performative to me. If Kanye. Because I don't. We. I think we all know in this room, Kanye did not write none of this. We know that he approved it. He read it and said, okay, put it out. Those are not his words.

[Rory]

Now, he's admitted to ghostwriters before. Now, I think rhyme fest are consequence wrote this. I think that that wasn't a shot.

[Maul]

If he felt like this, right? If he felt like this. If this is indeed, why won't he just say it? He can go live on his social media. He can put out a. Post a video, and just saying, like, yo, listen, I got help. You know, whatever. Whatever this. And then the Belly the Bully album coming up. It's just performatives. This is just promo. This feels like promo. It feels performative. It feels like, you know, because we know Kanye, and we know that when he does this, it's usually because he's getting ready to sell us something. So now it's like the boy who cried wolf. I don't look at this and be like, damn, ye. Like Damaris said, we been kind of saying these things about Kanye for years. Like, yo, is he all right? He seems to be, you know, his emotions all over the place. Like, is he okay? Like, he needs to get help. Things. Like. So, yes, we've been saying these things because we're watching it, and from our lens, it looked like this was somebody that we once knew, and then now this is a whole different person. Something seems a bit off about this person. Cool. Now, if this is, in fact, true and all that, first of all, we hope that he's getting the help that he needs. We hope that, you know, physically that he's getting better and taking care of himself. I don't think that he should be in a state like this and, you know, jumping right back into putting out music because then now you have to, you know, you have to travel, you have to perform, you have to do this, you have to do that, and it's like, okay. But now you're putting mental and physical health to the back burner of the rigorous grind of, I have something to sell. I have music out. I have to perform. I have to be away from family, friends, doctors, or whatever. If this is really what it is, take the time to address this. Get better. Because now, cool. All these words are said. We read this beautiful Wall street ad and all of this. What happens if a month from now, we get another rant and after the Bully album is out and, you know, we all hear it and love it or hate it, what happens when we get the next rant? Yeah, like, then. Then what is it? Like, you know what I mean, so that's why I'm just like, all right, I get it. But to me, Wall street ad and all, it just feels a little. A little staged, a little performative.

[Rory]

So I know he did a interview with Justin LeBoy again, which by the time we're recording this, I don't think it's out. But I did see a clip yesterday that he was talking about Bully being very positive. He felt like it's his miseducation as far as every bar mattering. There's nothing wasted there. It is all about positivity. He said it's more like his Gnarles Barkley type of album more than it would be 808's because 808's even had heartbreak in it. It was not negative per se, but there's. I mean, even if you get into the depths of 808s and where that even goes with the Devil, it's dark tones. He's saying this is very much his positive and happy moment. And then the next day, he puts this out. I'm with you, Mall of its performative, because he's trying to sell us something. But what's wrong if artists do that? Like, even when Frank Ocean. Even when Frank Ocean came out and.

[Maul]

Said, yo, you're using mental health I I as an excuse for your actions.

[Rory]

I don't think mental health gives you an excuse to be an. But it is a conversation to be had. And I think yay. Has. Has been a habitual line crosser with all of that. And I'm not here to defend Kanye and anything that he has said, even with the excuse of mental health, because he clearly did ignore it, even when the people around him were trying to tell him. But if you get into bipolar, this. And that doesn't change anything. But some acknowledgment here. This is the most humble we've ever seen. Kanye, But I'm with you. I don't think he wrote a word.

[Maul]

Yeah, the most humble. We don't even need to write this.

[Rory]

Exactly.

[Maul]

This is the most humble. He didn't write that. What are you talking about?

[Damaris]

Some people can feel away and not know how to articulate their thoughts. Right? Some people just suck at articulating their thoughts. We've seen from people in this room. And sometimes when you're trying to explain yourself and you're not good at it, you make.

[Rory]

Kanye is very good at articulating his thoughts. Thoughts maybe probably one of the best.

[Damaris]

People ever can be good at articulating your thoughts in a rap about A subject.

[Maul]

No, no, no. It wasn't. No. Beat on when he articulated some of these thoughts. But what music playing.

[Damaris]

What I'm saying is, when you're talking about something that's sensitive to you, that you're still dealing with inside yourself, and I'm not making excuses for Kanye, just generalize. It can be. We come on this podcast and talk about every day, just fly out our mouth. We're witty, we're funny, we're quick. When we're talking about something that has affected our lives. We ruined our lives. I've ruined my family. Yeah. My words don't come out as smoothly. Might need some help. I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. I'd rather him do that than to go sit in front of a computer and let his. His thoughts and his mouth run away with him. And then he says something in the wrong way. And it's our. It's articulated wrong. People take it the wrong way. So they write it up how they want it to be heard. No, he went and got a professional. This is how I feel. Can you make this sound good? I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. I don't think it. I don't think it makes it any less sincere that that happens.

[Maul]

Let's go to pr.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Maul]

That's politicist. That's what they do.

[Rory]

And even with this Justin the Boy thing, it's gonna come out probably on his channel or whatever. The last few ones did, they have the edit button. Like, he can go on a rant, and then they can. You know, Justin the Boy will be like, ah, damn. Like, they'll. They'll find a way to cure it. So I don't think that's bad. But I'm asking if you think this is from a genuine place or is this now? Because Kanye becomes the theme of every album, if you've noticed. And I'm not trying to do the Kanye nerd thing. But Yeezus, he became that fucking brash, insane person for that project. My Beautiful Dark Swiss and Fantasy. He became the cool, suave, we only Wearing suits. He becomes what the album is. He's a manic fucking artist. Because Bully is supposed to be so positive. And now he's sitting with Justin Leboy saying it's his miseducation. Is this just a rollout, or is this really where his brain is at?

[Maul]

He. It's a rollout. We've seen this before. It's his rollout.

[Damaris]

You've never seen Kanye apologize for A fuck thing he's ever said.

[Maul]

What?

[Damaris]

Kanye be out here apologizing for shit that he say?

[Maul]

Yeah, he's apologized before.

[Damaris]

I'm sure he's. We've all apologized before, but Kanye has never apologized.

[Maul]

This is just the latest.

[Damaris]

Kanye has never taken full accountability for his mental health and the horrible shit that he said and the way that it's affected people.

[Maul]

Now, I will say you're right there. He's never directly, you know, attached it to mental health and the car accident and frontal lobe damage and all of that.

[Rory]

I think.

[Damaris]

No, I think the frontal lobe damage shit, I think that's a cop out. Me personally, I think that that's a cop out.

[Maul]

I do believe you. Want to know why I think it's all a cop out? Because if we roll the tay back when he did the whole gotcha, it seemed like you knew exactly what the fuck he was doing and saying. Then when you hit us with the gotcha moment when you lost all that money and was like, oh, gotcha. I told you, they control everything. Look, they took all my money. It was like he knew. He was very aware and cognizant of what he was doing and saying, I'm doing this on purpose to show y'. All. Yes, they run everything. Watch when I start saying this. Watch. They take everything from me.

[Rory]

Gotcha. And right to Maul's point, I did.

[Maul]

Wanna say, that's very calculated. Frontal lobe clears the motherfucker there, though.

[Rory]

Is this another version of. Cause I think. Think again. Not trying to be the yays a genius of not saying that. He wanted to see what it was like to be canceled. He knew what he was doing and everything that he was saying with everybody. Cameron said on his podcast, I was just with Kanye. He's not crazy. What he's putting on that.

[Maul]

I don't think Kanye's crazy at all. I think Kanye got to a level where he thought and forgot his place. You still a black man. You don't control this yet. You're very talented. Talented, creative. You can create anything and sell it. Yes. But don't get it twisted. You're still a black man in America, bro. There's still a pecking order here. So you have to still walk a certain way, talk a certain way. You can't just be out here doing and saying whatever you want because you sold a bunch of sneakers for Adidas.

[Damaris]

I agree with that.

[Maul]

You can't do that. You bugging them. Nah, that ain't how they. Michael Jordan sold a shit ton of sneakers from Nike. Mike ain't no never said what Kanye said.

[Rory]

Republicans buy sneakers too.

[Maul]

Mike played it but quickly. Republicans buy sneakers. Yeah.

[Rory]

I think Kanye was actually pretty lucid even with a bipolar brain. Lucid in what he was doing with everything he said after drink champs with the anti semitic stuff. Is this still part of that experiment to see what it is like to get out of being canceled? Is this, is he literally doing. Because he brings up the Truman show all the time. See, all he does is the Truman Show.

[Maul]

That's what happens when you. Everything you do.

[Rory]

Bipolar brain though.

[Maul]

No, no, 100%.

[Damaris]

And that's what I was about to bring up.

[Maul]

I'm.

[Damaris]

You guys are describing. Hey, he wants to feel like what it's like to be canceled and then crime out of the cancellation. That's bipolar manic.

[Rory]

He brings up the Truman show his whole career and you can even. He talks about with a bipolar brain how it can feel like that without bringing up the Truman Show. Is this his version of getting out of that like let me say all the right things and in a time when we've cared about mental health more than any time, it's been an excuse for everybody. Anytime anyone crashes out, can't do nothing, oh, it's because of mental health health. So now he can take this time to prove his point in an experiment in his bipolar brain that I'll just say all the right things. He even said with some of the bully clips before the Justin LA Boy. I just go back to doing the soul shit. They'll be back. I'll just say all the right things.

[Maul]

I'm just saying that's a very, very thought out process. You have to be on a certain clear headed consciousness thinking level to be able to think that far and come up with a plan and then execute that plan. Now I'm not saying Kanye doesn't have some mental health issues or some mental health things he needs to address. I'm not saying that. I would never write that off. I'm just saying with all of this, the Wall street ad and all of this and you can't expect me to be like, oh, okay, well then I totally understand that. No, I get it. I'm not saying he don't have mental health issues. But what's going to happen after all of this ad and the bully come out and then we're back to another rant.

[Damaris]

That's if it happens. You talking about in the future? We don't know if that's going to happen. You don't. You can only speak on what's going on right now that you've already seen.

[Maul]

Let's play the odds here. What are the odds that he is going to have another rant?

[Damaris]

So I think there is. There. There's definitely an odd that he will have another ramp, but at the same.

[Rory]

Time, he's about to have a whole interview.

[Damaris]

If he has another rant, it doesn't take away from what he said. If I'm bipolar.

[Maul]

I'm not saying that.

[Damaris]

If I'm bipolar and I'm manic and I'm in the process of ruining my life, and then I get on meds and look back and be like, oh, fuck y', all, I ruined my life. Let me come out and apologize for it. It doesn't mean that I'll never be manic again. It doesn't mean that I'll never make another bad decision.

[Maul]

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, what is all of this for, though? What is the ad and all? That's so. Back to what I'm saying. It just feels performative. It feels to. As part of the whole. You know, the whole.

[Rory]

And that's possible.

[Damaris]

That's it. You're probably right. But I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt because everybody else get the benefit of the doubt.

[Rory]

So, I mean, that's what I started with. I. We've seen this with so many white actors and people that have lost their minds. They never got any second chances after they pulled moves like this where they got the whole PR team to tell them exactly what to say, put them in front of the right person, and now we're like, yeah, you can star back in movies. You're fine now. You like, listen, you were in Hollywood. It was crazy. I. Black people have not really gotten that luxury when they've had mental breakdowns. That's kind of been specifically for the rich white. So, yeah, I mean, if. If they can do it, why can't. Yay, post something in the Wall Street Journal and do the same PR move that everyone else does? I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

[Maul]

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I'm just saying me as a person, just looking at this, this just feels too. Who is part of the play?

[Rory]

Which, again, I think a couple things can be true. But separating from Kanye, do you think this is wrong for artists to do in general, not take advantage of mental health? And again, I think that's a gray area with what Kanye's doing right now down to the. The Frank Ocean announcing he's gay on Tumblr right before Channel Orange. A lot of artists, the only time they want to speak is when they're putting out their music. They speak to their music. They're.

[Damaris]

They.

[Rory]

They're having. Have, like, they have to promote it. There has to be a rollout. I kind of hate when artists get that flack, like, oh, you doing this for the rollout? Everything's a rollout. This for the rollout. A lot of artists, up until the TikTok era did kind of mind they business. I know there was the DVD era, the blog era, this and that, Instagram, whatever. But for the most part, artists say the biggest things when they're trying to sell something. Why wouldn't you? Yeah, like what? Y' all are gonna.

[Damaris]

Y'.

[Maul]

All.

[Damaris]

Y' all gonna tear me apart.

[Rory]

What's wrong with it? And a lot of times, a lot of artists with the things they have to say ends up feeling okay to say after you record an album that has to do with the themes and the subject matter of what you're getting at, even down to, like, this, the song. That is one of the funniest things. You said that when Forrest Gump came on from Channel Orange, he was in the shower, and you almost wrapped yourself around the curtain.

[Maul]

Delete.

[Rory]

Turning that shit off. But who's. Who's to say that Frank didn't feel better about coming out after writing that song? Like, sometimes that can empower somebody to say certain things about what is happening. So, yeah, do I think there's a lot of artists that are calling paparazzi or fabricating making up these drama things like, oh, we have to just get the Internet talking when I sell something. Of course, I'm not stupid, but I do give a little bit more flack to artists like Frank. Kanye to a degree, because Kanye kind of is the reason we're all here with these dramatic rollouts. But sometimes that's the only time they want to speak. So if and if I have to sell something and I'm not a marketer, I'm an artist. I sit in the studio and make music. I don't know how to market. The only thing I know how to do is be myself and talk about what's going on in my life. And I don't want to do that with y' all until it's time for me to come out of my hole, which is in the studio. That's the time I'm gonna get on every. Every one of these platforms to speak.

[Maul]

But the only problem I have with that is the algorithm. Everybody's playing the algorithm game, have no choice. How do you get into the algorithm? How do you get to the top of the algorithm? And we know that the algorithm rewards negativity. That's what makes it to the top of the algorithm. You disrespect somebody, somebody has a fight, somebody, you know, whatever. That's what makes it to the top of the algorithm. Disrespect, negative energy. Right. My only thing with Kanye is I feel like he knew that. So a lot of the things he said were disrespect.

[Rory]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Maul]

That's how he controlled the whole, you know, he's at the top of everyone's algorithm. You couldn't open your phone, you couldn't go on social media and not see Kanye at the top. Right. So now, not in his personal business, but I think it's safe to say that he may have taken a hit financially for some of the things that he did and said over the last. Right, Just a small, small.

[Damaris]

Just.

[Maul]

Just a little bit. Yeah, just a little bit. Right, cool.

[Rory]

And personally.

[Maul]

And personally. Right.

[Rory]

Because you also have to understand he. Well, no longer is married, but is tied in for the rest of his. Well, I was going to get to his ex wife.

[Damaris]

Okay.

[Rory]

Yes, he's married to Bianca.

[Damaris]

Yes, married.

[Rory]

My apologies. He was married to a conglomerate. Like, let's remember that as well. Which affects everything that has to do with his personal life. His personal life became a conglomerate by his choice. I'm not giving him sympathy, trust me. That was his choice as a grown ass man, man. But that, yeah, that affects the Kardashian billionaire conglomerate. Not saying it's Adidas, but it ain't that far away from it. Now, that affects you seeing your kids and then your own personal money's up.

[Maul]

Based off of things you said.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Maul]

Because again, you get caught up in this negative thing. When I say something negative, it's right to the top of the algorithm. Right. Cool. Now you give us this on the Wall street at yo, you know, mental health, frontal lobe damage. I didn't know. Undiagnosed. Cool. And if that's real, we understand that, like, damn, that's, you know, it's fucked up that that went undiagnosed all of these years. Hopefully he's addressing that and getting help for that. My thing is, why are we attaching that to him? Why do you have to attach that? To sell something, though? Like, Kanye's talent speaks for itself at this point. Kanye don't have to do none of this to sell something. Kanye could just announce an album at midnight, and the numbers are gonna do what the numbers are gonna do.

[Damaris]

Agree.

[Maul]

So that's when I have a problem with this. Like, all of this. You don't need to use this as an angle for your rollout to sell something.

[Damaris]

But who. But this is the thing. You can't confirm that that's your opinion of what he's doing, but bouncing off the back of Aurora, that's what he's.

[Maul]

Bully is coming.

[Damaris]

Okay, understood that. But what I'm saying is he could have wanted to say this for five months. Right.

[Maul]

So then say it.

[Damaris]

No, because this is the thing, y'. All. Especially when everybody hates you or you feel like everybody hates you. Right. Like, that's reality versus your perception. If you feel like everybody hates you and on top of that, feel like you don't really owe people and people are going to talk about you anyway. People are going to sit on their podcast and not believe what the. You're saying anyway. Okay. If that's the case, I'm going to use that to my advantage. If I was an artist, I would do that, too. I'm not over here trying to convince y' all that I'm being. That I'm being real or that I'm being authentic, because y' all are going to believe me or y' all aren't going to believe me. But if this. If I'm going to come out and be vulnerable with you when I've given you so much of myself. Yeah. I'm going to attach it to my album. Yeah.

[Maul]

I don't have.

[Damaris]

I don't have to prove to y' all that I'm being authentic.

[Maul]

Don't try to sell me something and prove and. And be authentic.

[Damaris]

So you saying you will believe it? You will believe this? If Bully was coming to you, I'm.

[Maul]

Saying that you would believe it or wouldn't believe it no matter if the album was coming out or not.

[Damaris]

You believe it if Bully was coming a year from now?

[Maul]

No.

[Damaris]

So then.

[Maul]

No.

[Damaris]

So then what's the point? Like, that's what. If you're not going to believe it.

[Rory]

You'Re not going to believe.

[Maul]

Because I think a lot of people feel like I feel, which is, like, they don't matter that you have an album coming next week. Like, we don't care. You could have told us this. Like I said, I didn't need this whole. Whole pr, you know, press release thing. I didn't need that. I would rather open my phone and see Kanye speaking Directly into a camera and being vulnerable. Not no edit button. None of that. And be like, yo, listen, man, I said some things to me that would feel more genuine than some words that I'm reading in the world. I don't even read the Wall Street Journal.

[Rory]

And I know y'.

[Maul]

All. I know you start there. I don't even. I don't even read that page.

[Rory]

There's a group of people that read it. Huh? There's a group of people that read it.

[Maul]

Of course. See, his. His frontal lobe was opening up. Now you see how he start opening. His is opening now. This is what I'm saying. This is. It's okay. We know what this is. Let's just stop acting like we don't. Kanye don't have to do no promo. Kanye. But Kanye could. On his. On his Instagram, it could just say bully. That's it.

[Rory]

Not now.

[Maul]

And the numbers is going to do. He gonna have the number one album. Nope. What you mean? No?

[Damaris]

I don't know about him having a number one.

[Maul]

Get the fuck. Why? Unless Bad Bunny run another commercial.

[Rory]

You.

[Maul]

That would be the only reason I.

[Rory]

Think his album's coming out February 8th. I think it's coming around the same.

[Maul]

Like that would be the only reason Kanye ain't got the number one album is if Bad Bunny run another commercial.

[Rory]

Everything after the super bowl is going to be number one for Bad Bunny. But all right, with that said, Kanye has surpassed that. Of course, anything with Kanye that happens with us in this room, he doesn't need to do a rollout. We are going to see it. I even have Vultures 2 in my laptop, and I don't even think it got released. And I'm saying they sent it to me. It was just leaked with. I pay attention.

[Maul]

That's what I'm saying now.

[Rory]

Kanye is so super past that ENT thing. That's why he's one of the highest streamed people on Spotify history. Even if he's 25, that's still crazy. With that said, he. With all his comments about the Jewish community and everything, does need to address that to sell the album. Because I think Bully would go to deaf ears. By deaf ears, I mean just the type of people in this room that pay attention to hip hop. I'll tell you this. My mom and her best friend were in my car. Wait, no, let me finish this.

[Maul]

Kanye you talking about.

[Rory]

I know. I'm telling you people.

[Maul]

You don't think if Kanye puts out an album tomorrow, his fan base is.

[Rory]

Can we look up what vultures did vultures one that came out on DSPs. Let's look at the numbers. You think that went number one? Went nowhere near number one.

[Maul]

All right, but how did he release.

[Rory]

I don't even remember the last Kanye west album that went number one.

[Damaris]

Yeah, number ones ain't as easy to come by as like, we think.

[Maul]

Well, Kanye.

[Damaris]

No, for Kanye either.

[Maul]

Well, Kanye got kind of the way he was releasing and putting out. You didn't know if it was out, if it was not.

[Damaris]

Like it did go to number one one. It did be.

[Rory]

No Hip, hip hop, guys. I'm Talking about number one, where Kanye.

[Damaris]

Used to be the Billboard 200 albums chart. Number one on the Billboard 200.

[Rory]

Ain't no way at that time when Taylor Swift was coming out that Kanye west was number one.

[Damaris]

Okay, we're back. Rory was wrong.

[Rory]

Completely wrong. Vulture spent number one on Billboard for two weeks. Carnival. I was an incredible record. I was. I was talking more about the album. Album, yeah. That spent two weeks there. What was the first week sales, Josh?

[Damaris]

148,000.

[Rory]

148,000. Which is incredible. Okay. But I still think that's lower numbers148 for. For a Kanye album. And my point was that I was getting to. Was the Pete Davidson in Game song is the one that went the craziest for Kanye when it came to the news outside of the numbers, when he said, I hope Pete Davidson dies at AIDS and put the video out that my mom and her friend listened to that record. Like, did you hear about the new Kanye, the one with Game Mom? That's the one you're talking about. Because they was talking about Pete Davidson and all the gossip shit. So I was saying, to your point of ye being in that negative algorithm shit, he has to do stuff like this to get to that next level.

[Maul]

Kanye doesn't have to do anything. And that's the point. And I think that's the point that people have to understand.

[Rory]

Okay, but do you also remember Vultures, which I was completely wrong about? Do you remember the vultures role out? He had every right wing streamer. They were in that hotel room streaming for seven days. They were kicking women out the room. They were doing the Andrew Tate rollout. It was the most negative. So I'm saying he still has to do stuff Vultures did. I was wrong. Vultures went number one. But now to that point, yeah, he had a insanely negative rollout and a very public one. One. So you're saying he doesn't need to do that. Yes, he does. He. He needed to do that. To make Vultures be number one?

[Maul]

No, because every other album went number one before that, and he didn't.

[Rory]

You don't remember all his antics through every album ever?

[Maul]

I'm saying he didn't have to do what he did. As far as a rollout on the Vultures album, I'm not saying you don't have to promo your stuff. I'm saying I think Kanye west is at a point in his career now where these things, These every. All the tricks and things that every other artist has to do, he does not have to do. Do that.

[Rory]

He invented those tricks, though.

[Maul]

But I'm saying he doesn't. He no longer has to do that. He can just. Again, Instagram. Yay, Bully. So white letters, black background bully. That will be enough. People know the album is coming. That's it. This is Kanye Westweed, one of the most influential artists of his time.

[Rory]

Like, he doesn't have influential art.

[Maul]

He doesn't have to do these things that everybody else is. He doesn't have to do that.

[Damaris]

I hear what you're saying, Ma, but. But you have no baseline for the past. Let's say past 10 years, right? You have no. Wait, 10 years. How long would that be? Damn time flying. Okay, let's say past five years, five to 10, whatever. You have no baseline of him not doing wild to sell an album to say he doesn't need to do wild to sell.

[Rory]

20 years of Kanye's career has been that.

[Damaris]

Yeah, he's always done wild, so you.

[Maul]

Can'T say Kanye always done wild to sell album. Album. This is. This is. This is.

[Damaris]

This is recent.

[Maul]

This is real. He hasn't always done wild to sell.

[Damaris]

An album, but past 10 years, in the. In the age of the. You need the Internet to sell albums or 10 years or.

[Maul]

Because the algorithm awards negativity. Okay, this is what I'm saying.

[Damaris]

So if he doesn't do negativity, does he still sell the same. That was Rory's problem, I think.

[Maul]

Yes. This is Kanye before. Before the algorithm, he was selling shitload of records, influencing all artists. After the algorithm, yes. He doesn't. He does not. He became a victim of that. He fell into that. I think he didn't need to do that. And I think now he's realizing he didn't have to go that far. He didn't have to do all of that negative shit he was doing and saying those things he was doing.

[Rory]

I actually think this is perfect. Mall, because you're making an amazing point. We're talking about all the negative shit he did to get number one with vultures. Now he's doing positive. Let's take out if we think somebody else wrote it. This and that bully. He said with Justin Leboy is miseducation. It's only about positivity. Every bar is supposed to uplift everybody in the world. He did a full apology of his whole entire career in the Wall Street Journal. Journal. Let's see.

[Maul]

What was his role?

[Rory]

This could be.

[Maul]

What's his rollout for the gospel album? Because that was positive. What was his role?

[Rory]

I love that.

[Maul]

What was his rollout for that?

[Rory]

Oh, I mean even when he did with Sunday.

[Maul]

Sunday service. Right.

[Rory]

Sunday service.

[Maul]

Traveled the country with a choir.

[Rory]

I thought that was awesome.

[Maul]

Beautiful. I went to. Yeah.

[Rory]

Thought it was great fire.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

So no. Okay. But things definitely turned in the Internet after that time. The Internet was still negative at that.

[Damaris]

Time, but not the way.

[Rory]

But it turned to a everything negative type of world that we're currently in right now. Now everything has to be negative. I'm curious to see to your point with him going with a positive rollout. What happens? I don't have any predictions. I have no idea.

[Maul]

For me, it's always this and it will always be this with any of these artists. I don't care about your rollout. I don't care about your roll up.

[Damaris]

You care if the music is good. All that matters.

[Maul]

What does the music sound like? That's my thing. I don't care about this Wall street ad. I care about his mental health. Hopefully he's addressing that and he's getting help for that. That part. Yes, absolutely. I care about. About. But I didn't need the Wall street ad. I. I just again, too performative.

[Rory]

I think it's actually a great experiment to see if positivity even works in a rollout.

[Maul]

Yeah. But he.

[Rory]

If, If. If being humble. If, if being hey, I need forgiveness because I up. I said a bunch of things.

[Maul]

But how would you know if it works with Kanye? The album is gonna go number one no matter what.

[Rory]

You proving me wrong with the vultures thing is actually going to. We'll have an answer.

[Maul]

The album goes. As long as he stays away from Bad Bunny. As long as he stays away number one.

[Rory]

Because that can change. Let's look at the. The stream sales, which I hate. Who cares about that? But let's. Let's look at the sales.

[Maul]

Okay.

[Damaris]

All right.

[Maul]

What are we.

[Damaris]

We used to do sales guesses. What are you guys guessing? Units. Album equivalent units.

[Maul]

Oh, that is so. Because I don't even know what.

[Rory]

200.

[Maul]

I don't even know what that means. How many?

[Damaris]

10.

[Maul]

How many pre orders did Rocky have?

[Rory]

A million. Million.

[Maul]

How many did he sell for how many? What was his first week numbers? Because he has a number two. He didn't debut at number one, right?

[Rory]

No debut number one.

[Maul]

Yeah. Over. Over. Bad Bunny.

[Rory]

Congrats to A.S.A.P. rocky. Yes. He has a number one album. 120, 000. I think he ate us. Was. Does 200. Because I do think with this Wall Street Journal.

[Maul]

Plus, Rocky debuted at number one.

[Rory]

Yeah. Right. No. Congrats to A.S. rocky.

[Maul]

That's pretty Gucci.

[Rory]

Yeah, it's great. Yeah.

[Damaris]

Yeah. I think if.

[Rory]

If Vultures did 148 and Yay is doing his apology tour. I'm 200.

[Damaris]

I'm going 120.

[Rory]

I'll go 120 under Vultures.

[Damaris]

Unless. Unless he sells something and packs it out. Unless he sells something.

[Maul]

Like, can you pull up the. The rabbi that he was speaking with a couple months ago? That was.

[Rory]

That was. Shook his hand and that was crazy. That was crazy. Yeah. No, no, I've had a version.

[Maul]

What was that rabbi's name? Peach.

[Rory]

A lot of people had never heard that.

[Maul]

Is that rabbi? There you go. Rabbi Yoshi Yosef.

[Rory]

Yes.

[Maul]

Remember that?

[Rory]

Kanye made his amends.

[Maul]

There we go. So then we got that right, baby D. Follow me. That was November.

[Damaris]

Following you everywhere, baby.

[Maul]

That was November. We're January now. We get the Wall street ad apology towards. Do you not see how his team and staff are planning?

[Damaris]

I see that. I'm not disagreeing with you.

[Maul]

So that's where it's for me. I say performative, planned. We're gonna do this, then we're gonna do that, then we're gonna do this, and then the album comes.

[Rory]

So is every artist has been performative.

[Maul]

Yeah, but I'm just saying for what he's done over the years and said for him to now make this turn and you can't expect somebody like me to be like, oh, yeah, I feel him.

[Damaris]

Yeah. No, I don't expect you to. But I also don't think that Kanye is doing this for you.

[Maul]

I'm one of his consumers.

[Damaris]

Yeah, but you're gonna. You bought. In his height of the worst shit. He was saying you bought Yeezy boots. You're not the person he's apologizing.

[Rory]

And, you know, I think. You know, I think ball, but he doesn't.

[Maul]

But again, my thing is, if you want to say apologize to people you hurt with Your words. I'm always for that. Apologize. Right. My thing is, why attach it? Like you said, why are we getting an album coming off the Wall street thing? It's just. Stop selling shit for a second. Sit down. Yeah, but. Sit down. Get your mental health together. Get your life together. You know what I mean? Your kids is growing up. Do all stop selling shit for a second.

[Damaris]

But he hasn't sold us anything in a couple years.

[Maul]

What you talking about?

[Damaris]

He's been.

[Rory]

Well, Maul's been waiting for his boots for a while. He sold his swastika merch last February. I ordered swastika us, but we going.

[Maul]

Into February of next year and I.

[Rory]

Still ain't got Kanye kind of hasn't stopped selling stuff, but. All right, well, and we can close this because I know this dragged a bit, but you would consider, like, do you consider artists a brand at this point? I'm not a businessman. I'm a businessman.

[Maul]

Like certain. Certain artists. Everybody just be saying that.

[Rory]

No, no, no. But using artists in the same vein.

[Maul]

One million percent, okay? One million.

[Rory]

So you don't think Pepsi beats to the drum of how we're going to move based off how we're selling something? Something. Why is Kanye, who is a. A brand at one point was just as valuable as a major corporation that has been around for a hundred years? Because that's how talented Kanye west was with his vision. Why can he not move at the same pace that every more major corporation does?

[Maul]

Because he's saying that he has frontal lobe damage and mental health issues that he needs to address.

[Rory]

Pepsi.

[Maul]

The Pepsi CEO never came out an.

[Rory]

Ad with Kendall Jenner stopping racism by opening that.

[Damaris]

You have to let it go.

[Maul]

And.

[Rory]

And I know it's the craziest commercial of all time. They had an Asian playing the violin at a riot. Pepsi put out an ad. Yo, we messed up. We're gonna do better. At least Kanye gave me some more words that made me feel like I'm actually talking to a human being. And he's a brand that at one point, probably not as valuable as Pepsi, but close in the billions. Why can't he move the same way? His life is a brand. He's always going to sell. He's selling his personality. He's was married to the conglomerate of selling your personality. Their brands, the Kardashians, are a brand. You don't get skims without Kim selling herself, her lifestyle. These people, anytime they walk outside, they're selling themselves. I don't mean that in a negative way either. And I don't I don't. I don't mean that in a negative way.

[Maul]

Everything you're saying is correct. What I'm saying is if you're having mental health issues, if you're front.

[Rory]

I took all of you.

[Maul]

You need to sit the down. Go live on a. Off of. Off a farm somewhere for a couple years. Get your mental health together. Relax. Stop trying sell. Put shit in the consumer space all the time. Like just fucking chill and relax. You made enough money. Life is great. Get your fucking. Get your. Get your physical and mental health in order before you start to jump back into the space and want to sell shit again.

[Rory]

That's like, that's all I'm saying. Telling Pepsi to stop selling the Pepsi that's in our fridges every day.

[Maul]

No, that's not.

[Rory]

That's how you become a billionaire. Like, that's how you. That's the difference between. Kanye also hoe. But he has done it outside of his lifestyle brand. That's the difference. They sell things every goddamn day.

[Maul]

Pepsi and Kanye'.

[Rory]

Rihanna did not become a billionaire until she started selling fenty and her lifestyle brand that she could match with what she was doing with the music videos. Yeah, but her being.

[Maul]

Yeah, but what do you talk about? What point are you making? Rihanna is not saying negative about a group of people in the world. Rihanna's not going on.

[Rory]

No, no, no. We're talking about a separate, separate point.

[Maul]

So the point I'm making is sit down and stop trying to sell.

[Rory]

Sure. I'm just telling you that he has the mind state of a corporation because he is one now. He walks outside and is being sold. So his mind is always there. That doesn't mean go fucking buy a Nazi chain. I'm not saying. I'm not co signing that. I'm just saying where those types of brains are at. He's. He's a corporation. Not to the way some other rapper is that also sells alcohol. You're talking about somebody that has entered billionaires. When Rihanna walks out every time, when she's with Rocky, when she's with her kids, of course she's living her life the way she wants to live. Live it. You don't think she's throwing on the fenty coat. She knows her whole life is being sold every time she walks out that building.

[Maul]

Okay.

[Rory]

So yeah, that puts them in that mall wants.

[Damaris]

So here's the thing, Ma. All authenticity, the majority. I won't say all the majority of authenticity. The majority of the authenticity that we are sold because we are being sold. Authenticity because authenticity is what makes. That's why we have so many influencers, right? And influencers that have become the new celebrities, because they're just normal people that showed us our lives, and now we related to them, and now we give. We bought shit from them, and they influence our lives. So authenticity, a lot of times is forced. It's fake, it's acted. And some people are better at it than others. Kanye didn't take that route. He didn't get in front of the camera like Diddy did after the rape accusations come out and say, hey, I'm working on it with God, me and my pastor, and did the fake authenticity. He did it the way that artists used to do it when the label was running everything. I'm going to put out a fucking press release. Now I have a whole bunch of money, so my press release, I can force it to be seen by the people I want it to be seen by. And I can understand why that might rub you wrong, but please understand that even when people are doing the fake, sit in front of the camera with the black T shirt while they're in their kitchen and their kids are in the back playing and their wife is bringing them a plate of food, that's staged, too, but it's staged to look authentic. Kanye just didn't.

[Maul]

Well, you let Kyrie tell it. This is all a stage.

[Damaris]

Everything is a stage. That's the world we live in.

[Rory]

I agree with Kyrie, and I definitely.

[Maul]

Agree with Kyrie on that one.

[Rory]

Learned that pretty early, and that's why I think Kanye believes a lot of shit that he's saying. So I'm with you there. But to Damaris's point, Kanye has, in the years of gangsta rap, came out with a polo and said, I'm a nerd dog. Like, he. So he sold a group of people, a large group authenticity of. I'm around a bunch of people that usually, if you're in this position, you're gonna pretend like, nah, I'm from Chicago. I'm G.D. no, I'm a nerd. I'm an art student in a time when it wasn't cool to be an art student. So everyone took his introduction to the world as an authenticity.

[Maul]

That's who he really. He was. That was authentic on Kanye. That's who he was.

[Damaris]

That.

[Rory]

That was in everyone's.

[Maul]

That was his most authentic. That was him. Yeah. He worked at the Gap. He was a Gap kid. He wore Gap. He was a preppy kid. That's. And there's nothing wrong with that. Like, no, no, of course there's space for that in hip hop.

[Rory]

I'm just saying, at a time when it wasn't even cool to say that type of shit, you got to that point of so authenticity, and that's what.

[Maul]

We got away from is in. In hip hop, you are rewarded for being authentic.

[Rory]

That's what it used to be at a time.

[Maul]

You couldn't even sound like other rappers at one point, even if vocally and tone wise, we just had naturally the same people, like, yo, that ain't gonna work. You sound too much like. Like this person or you look too much like that person. Like, you had to be authentic. Now it's just cookie cutter. Put them on the conveyor belt, send them down the line. And I'm saying an artist as talented as Kanye should not fall into that, because he doesn't have to.

[Rory]

Well, when he was yelling, listen to the kids, bro, I actually liked that. But now I'm. I'm starting to see where that disappeared, because I. I think you're. You're handicapped in a good way because you grew up around three people. That. That actually made the things they were living so authentic. That that was the lifestyle that was sold to the world, and that's why they fell in love with that. That company. Kanye ended up being a kid in that company as far as his authenticity as well. And then Kanye started listening to his own kids. He started listening to Playboi Carti of what you should do, whereas, no, all these kids do what they did because they saw you. And I like listening to the kids, bro. I think Drake as somebody that keeps up with the youth, this and that, I think that's important for longevity. But sometimes you know better than your kids.

[Maul]

Oh, yeah?

[Rory]

Well, you sure sometimes. Sometimes you see all these kids popping, which. Kanye's talked about his insecurities with Drake. Younger artists like, damn, they became popping. What the fuck? You don't take the advice. Take your own advice.

[Maul]

Frontal lobe, but no warrior now.

[Rory]

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[Rory]

I mean, I guess it's a good segue into the Kid Cudi thing. Another person that was always authentically themselves in a time when it wasn't cool to be. We've been having this Jim Jones Kid Cudi debate for about 15 years. I'm happy it finally hit the Internet.

[Damaris]

Oh, I've never heard it before.

[Rory]

Oh, this has been a. This is an age, age old rap barbershop conversation. So Kid Cudi replied, I'll be honest with you, even when I was looking it up, I don't know what sparked Marked Cudi doing this. I don't know.

[Damaris]

Well, Jim Jones spoke first.

[Rory]

Jim Jones Fair came on his podcast.

[Damaris]

Jim Jones came out and said that people only heard of Day and Night. And Josh, can you pull up the direct quote, please? Something along the lines of people only heard of Day and night because Jim Jones remixed it. Right. So then you get the Internet, you get the New York Internet agreeing with him in the other 49 states, saying, I've never even heard that version.

[Maul]

You know what's funny with that right there alone? It's a cover of a song that's already out. So how could people.

[Rory]

How you heard it?

[Maul]

Yeah, like how could people only have heard it because you remixed it or you made a cover of the song? Like, that makes no sense.

[Damaris]

Okay, so people would know who Kid Cudi is.

[Maul]

Yeah, he said people would know Kid Cudi.

[Damaris]

Okay, what was the original?

[Rory]

So, all right, I have some like actual.

[Maul]

We talk about day and night.

[Damaris]

Yes.

[Rory]

Okay, so I have some actual, like real knowledge into this timeline because I worked at by any means when. By any means produced the video of Jim Jones in the booth. You can pull up Day and Night remix Jim Jones. Aristotle produced that video. BB Gun Shot was a By any means production at that time. The song was still bubbling. Yes. Did they play the Jim Jones verse first that then got put into the Kid Cudi Day and night song on Hot 97 on the radio, when radio was still very, very much prevalent in 2008 and in the blogs. Was. Was that a moment when Jim Jones got on it? Absolutely. So Jim's right for the Tri State to some degree. But at this time, Cudi was living in Brooklyn and Jersey City. Like, Cudi was working that record in New York York. That's how Jim probably heard it because Cudi was working that record. But to say that that moment of Jim Jones shooting that video in the studio, the red lights, the blunt of going on that beat, that's what played at parties in the club and on the radio in New York City. Only speaking about that. But to say that Hot 97 in 2008 didn't determine the hip hop market of all 50 states. States you're bugging. Maybe that's New York ego, but there's no way that you're telling me that what Hot 97 was doing in 2008 did not dictate what a lot of places were doing in middle markets. Atlanta, of course, is always going to do their own thing. LA is always going to do their own thing. But if you don't think people are not following what Hot 97 does in this period, you're bugging. Now. With that said, I saw Cudi's response. He's also completely cool, correct? That record was going, bro.

[Damaris]

It was going so.

[Rory]

And I think it was a New York City remix, but it was one of those things in New York that became a staple of Jim Jones on that record. But that record was going dog, like.

[Damaris]

And I think that it's. It's a hit record where we have to be. And that even goes back to the conversation that me and Ma just eventually agreed to disagree on when it came to. Is Drake the reason why the Migos exist? You can say I made this better and I put more eyes on this. Which you can't say is, is this. Your career would never exist without me. There's a difference. There's a difference between I helped you and I helped you grow. But there's also some things that would all were always going to jump off. It might have just taken a little bit longer. Day and Night was always going to be a hit. Jim Jones knew that. That's why the fuck he hopped on an unknown artist's song. Because the shit was so hot he had to be on it.

[Rory]

Also, Jim is an incredible A and R. So Jim is. Jim has always been great at understanding what's at sounds good before he even knew how to rap. Jimmy was that good at that. So yeah, he heard a record like, oh, this is hard. I don't care what the world thinks. I think it's hot. So I'm gonna get on the record. Jimmy's always been that way, so I know probably in his brain he's thinking like, I don't care if that was gonna be a hit. I was rapping on that no matter what. And yeah, it brought my BlackBerry with the side scroll ringtone was Jimmy's version of Day and night in 2008. Like that. That was a, a, a record. It played in the party better. And then Cuddy came in. It was a moment because they had both of them and Jim coming off balling like it was a thing, I think.

[Maul]

Can we Put up when Day and Night played on Entourage, because I think that was the.

[Rory]

That was definitely big.

[Maul]

That was the moment.

[Rory]

It was also big. Like when. Same era when Entourage had Charles Hamilton, Brooklyn Girl on it. That was big. Entourage premiered a. A different version of what's the Kanye with T. Pain, Good Life. Go watch Entourage. They premiered the song the day before it came out. It's a different version. Kanye changed it that night.

[Maul]

I get what Jim is saying. Jim definitely. You know, when he did Day and Night, that went platinum in the hood.

[Damaris]

Sure.

[Maul]

But, I mean, Day and Night was gonna be Day and Night if Jim never did that or not. Like, when you're getting your song placed on the biggest show on hbo, a monumental show. Like, if your song is making it there, bro. Cuddy, if Jim never did Day and Night over, that song was gonna be what it is.

[Rory]

Like, that Cudi is a talent, that if there's a bunch of people in his circle of life that never existed, he's still gonna be Cudi. Like, yeah, that's.

[Maul]

It's go now. But now Jim's. Jim's version did go platinum in hood.

[Damaris]

It did go platinum in my ring.

[Maul]

Like, we going. Like, we not going to do that. But it also implied him in the hood because the Day and Night song, the Cudi song, was so dope and so was so big.

[Rory]

And in the context that you guys pulled up, I have to give some pushback just on a personal level. He said, my intern shot that video. I mean, if you considered Aristotle an intern, I guess that's fair. But I want to give a lot of credit to Aristotle, who went on to shoot videos for Nas. Fab J. Cole has a feature film on Hulu right now. Like, Aristotle is super established. So I kind of wish Jimmy would have not said it that way, because Aristotle so established, you could have said, yo, Aristotle and BB gun shot that.

[Maul]

So that. That aired November 2008 on Entourage Day and Night. When did Jim's Day and Night drop? Same.

[Rory]

Around the same. Same time.

[Maul]

Because that was 2008.

[Rory]

October, if anything.

[Maul]

So, okay, so Jim's came out October 2008, and the Entourage episode was November.

[Damaris]

2008, which mean it was shot probably seven months before.

[Maul]

Yeah, but you can't. You got to speak to when it was played, though. Like, when people actually heard Day and Night on Entourage. So, yeah, it's around the same time, but Day and Night was definitely taking off way before that.

[Rory]

Yeah. But yeah, I was about to say, even though then Entourage of when they shoot everything and then do the scores, I guess. But that was playing on radio.

[Maul]

Yeah, that was. That was.

[Rory]

It was a record.

[Maul]

Yeah, that was a. That was a big record. But it's just. I get what Jim is saying, though, like, because he did that, you know, his version of the record, it definitely was big. You know what I'm saying? But I just think that Jim just, you know the words. Just the wrong choice of words.

[Damaris]

See, you be ma. You do that a lot for people. You give people a lot of benefit, doubt, and be like, no, never. For real. When he be like, you know, I feel like he was trying to say. And I think he was trying to say, no, niggas know what they be saying.

[Maul]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's the wrong choice of words that he chose. Now, the song, his version was big. Jim Jones version of the song was big. Like I said, in the hood, everybody was playing that shit. So I get why, in Jim's mind, his perception is because everybody he's around, that's what he was hearing, was his version of it. So I understand. But for him to say what he said, I'm just saying, like, nah, you definitely. Your version of it definitely was big, but that song was that song with or without your version. But we're not gonna take it away from Jim's version of Dan Knight being a hit, because it was.

[Damaris]

Oh, yeah, no, two things.

[Maul]

That's what I'm saying. Just the wrong choice of words that he chose. That's all. I'm not saying that he didn't mean what he said. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying he chose the wrong words because day and night, Kid Cudi.

[Damaris]

He chose the right words to prove his wrong point.

[Rory]

But even again. Oh, yes, yes. But also with somebody that's been batting a thousand on cosigns, I can see why he would think like, no, everything that I co sign before everyone else does in my circle clearly seems to be right. But also, in 2008, the entire music industry had moved to LA LA. Yet let's not act like all the execs that was pushing everything with Cudi wasn't in their cars going home like, oh, all right, Jimmy on this, this going. This is going crazy in New York. Let's not act like that's not a thing at that time. You guys can say, we're irrelevant now, and it's fine. We can argue about that. At another time in 2007-8, yes, it was a thing that Jim Jones and Kid Cudi were playing on hot 97 non stop for every exception exec on their drive home back to New Jersey for sure.

[Maul]

Like, yeah, not mad at that.

[Rory]

Like that. Definitely. I'm sure that helped Cudi in his meetings. Cudi is. Is a genius. He's going to be Cuddy no matter what. But let's not act like at that time when everyone was gravitating towards that song with the execs that lived in the energy of this city at that time, that wasn't helpful. It was definitely. I know if I. If I was in a A R office and every morning I'm driving to work and every night I'm driving to work, I hear this goddamn song with Jimmy's version on it coming off the bones like, all right, cool. Cudi is at this point too. You have to understand. It's 2008. They're just getting into the tight pants thing. This is 808 and heartbreaks. Nope, same. We talking about Kanye kind of being a trailblazer where it was cool to be a nerd just for him. All right, the hood is co signing this because don't act like the office at that time didn't think what the hood was thinking at that time. Jimmy was a good cosign for what was going on. Cudi is a little left. We heard he's working on his Kanye album.

[Damaris]

Album.

[Rory]

I don't know. He wears weird tight pants. He's out of his mind.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

A co sign from the hood at that time for an exec like, all right, cool. The hood's with it. This sound isn't that crazy because we're coming off all Ron Brown at that time. This is polished. This is like 80s pop, weird dark tones and yeah, this is kind of nuts coming off that Ron Brown that the hood would with this. That's important.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

To how a record starts to get broken. I know everyone wants to take credit once the record is. Is number five on Billboard, but it takes the hood to get it there. That's all. Especially if that's.

[Damaris]

I don't think it takes the hood to get it there.

[Rory]

But I'm talking about in this time with. With execs and in buildings. That's a. That's a thing. Energy used to be a thing. That's where you get Sav and Stevo best of both offices. People that actually used to go out into the street and figure out what the was happening happening in not New York City, but the entire country. Everything. People say the. The labels are Missing is where you merge Jim Jones and Kid Cudi with Day and Night. That's when worked.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

All right. Hood co signing this weirdo. And I don't mean weirdo in a bad way. Hood is co signing this weirdo.

[Maul]

Bottom line is, Day and Night was a smash.

[Rory]

Cutty out of here, and it doesn't matter.

[Maul]

Huge record. Huge record.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Maul]

No matter who remixed it. Huge, huge record.

[Rory]

Are you guys gonna watch this? Hit Boy and Mike Will made it.

[Damaris]

Versus Fake Ass for sure.

[Maul]

A lot of records. Because Hit Boy Mike Will got a lot of records, I'll tell you that. Yeah, I'm watching this.

[Damaris]

Who y' all think is gonna win?

[Maul]

Hit Boy.

[Damaris]

Yeah, you said that really quickly. I agree, but you said that quickly.

[Maul]

I mean, I. I say it all the time, and not just because that's my guy. Hit Boy might be the most talented producer. When you can produce an entire collection for Nas and then, you know, produce for Beyonce and then, you know, produce for, you know, Nipsey and, you know, it's just the range that Hit Boy has is undeniable. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's just. It's undeniable.

[Damaris]

It is. But for the first 10, I think Mike will might. The first 10, I think it's going to be up and up. But I think after. After. After those 10, I think hit Boy will start to come in.

[Rory]

Here's the thing. I think Mike Will is. Is kind of like the Atlanta Hit Boy, because I'm with you. Hit Boy's range is absolutely insane.

[Maul]

He can. He can play a Beyonce, but if.

[Rory]

You can go from Meek Millen Ross, Tupac back and then go to a Miley Cyrus record, Mike Will has the most insane range.

[Damaris]

He has range as well.

[Maul]

Listen, there's a reason why this is going to be dope. They both have range.

[Rory]

Tom Delight's future. That's a point.

[Maul]

Hit Boy. Boy.

[Rory]

It's not no lie two chains.

[Maul]

Because if you play that, if you play that future record Mike, what happens? I'm throwing Niggas in Paris.

[Damaris]

So Niggas in Paris is an automatic win, right? Niggas in Paris is an automatic win. But you know what else is also automatic win? Poured up. Poured up is an automatic win to me. For a lot of people. You got to remember, it's not just about Rihanna.

[Rory]

Pour it up. Pour it up.

[Maul]

Oh, pour it up.

[Damaris]

I still got my money. Yeah, okay.

[Maul]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Damaris]

Like, and also to make her dance.

[Rory]

His automatic win, but also that Michael has Beyonce. Didn't he Do Formation.

[Damaris]

Was Formation him or Hit Boy?

[Rory]

No, that was Mike Will.

[Maul]

Oh, it was.

[Damaris]

It was.

[Rory]

And don't get it Twist. I. Hit Boy has records on the last two Beyonce projects.

[Damaris]

No, yeah, that is. That's him.

[Rory]

He has a 16 candle. Like, but I don't know if that.

[Damaris]

Black Beatles, black in A versus today. Black Beatles, black Beatles in the city. We talk about 2016. Like, come on now.

[Rory]

No, this is. This actually, in a weird way makes more sense than the Boy Wonder and Hit Boy Battle.

[Maul]

Yeah, because of the range you talking about.

[Rory]

Yeah, they both just have a lot of records also with the same artists as well in the pop world.

[Maul]

Yo, can Josh, can you pull up that Billboard Top producers?

[Damaris]

Oh, I didn't like.

[Maul]

Where was Hit Boy at on that?

[Damaris]

I didn't know that Mike Will did Humble by Kendrick Lamont. Okay, that's crazy.

[Rory]

So, all right, Humble and DNA versus Mad City, which is one of the craziest Hit Boy beats of all time, which is off. Good kid, man.

[Maul]

I think you're pulling up. Is this R B? Was it just producers?

[Rory]

Okay, yeah, but I mean, a lot of these didn't go with specific range like Boy Wonder has rightfully so hit records with.

[Maul]

I just want to see what else.

[Rory]

But it has so many with Drake.

[Maul]

That where Hit Boy was at on this.

[Damaris]

Move that Dope by.

[Rory]

Just Move that Dope control F and then type in Hitboy. I'm gonna. You and I are gonna go through like a Microsoft Word.

[Damaris]

Move that Dope by Future, Pusha T and Pharrell is.

[Maul]

Wow.

[Damaris]

One of my favorite beats of all time.

[Maul]

No Hit Boy on the top producers of the 21st century.

[Damaris]

It's. Who did the list? Rolling Stone. What you expect?

[Rory]

Well, no, no, it's Billboard. It's based off, like actual data.

[Damaris]

Oh, okay.

[Rory]

And my thing with Hip Boy has. I don't even want to call them cult classics, cuz they're huge records. But Hip Boy has more of like the records Beyonce was experimenting on rather than the Hit records.

[Maul]

In Paris is a top song of this song.

[Rory]

Of course.

[Damaris]

That should be like. That's an automatic win.

[Maul]

There's nothing that alone should put him on that list somewhere. Like.

[Rory]

Well, it's based off how many you have, I guess. So even if that's. That's one, I guess. I don't know though.

[Maul]

Like, it is gonna be interesting though.

[Rory]

So no type still works.

[Damaris]

Click, click, Go click is gonna go crazy. Crazy. Sickle Mode is gonna go crazy.

[Rory]

That's. That's Hit Boy. That's not my Will.

[Damaris]

I know.

[Rory]

I'm sorry.

[Damaris]

I'm naming Hit Boy.

[Maul]

He's not. He's not. He has to be. His picture's right there.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

He's literally as big as Pharrell.

[Damaris]

So I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie to y'. All. Mike, Will has more hits. Hits. He has a significant amount.

[Rory]

But we've seen in verses where that doesn't necessarily mean everything gotta be on the others. It's. It's kind of how you structure your playlist and how songs go against each other. Like, it's how.

[Maul]

Yeah, that's a very big part of the versus.

[Rory]

You could have more hits that don't mean anything.

[Maul]

It's like when you play them versus, like, if. And especially if I got to play a record first, it's like playing a hand of spades. You got to play your hand. Right? Because now if I play, you know, one of my biggest records, and then you play something that people just like more, it's like, okay, who got Got that?

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Like, I'm not saying that they might have charted.

[Maul]

That song I played might have charted higher than the one you played, but.

[Rory]

As with, like, in the Jay Z jar, another tip. His biggest record. New York State of Mind or Empire State of Mind.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

You think Jay Z's playing that in his verses? No, of course not. Like, just because you have bigger hits there doesn't mean anything.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And even I wouldn't say ludicrous. Shouldn't have beat Nelly, but it shouldn't have been a wash. Nelly had an awful. Like, how did you even think to structure it this way? Yeah, I'm excited. I'm curious if they're gonna go one for one or if it's gonna be the 15 minute set versus 15 minute set.

[Maul]

I think it should be that.

[Rory]

I prefer that. I think that's cool.

[Maul]

I think it should be that. I think the whole verses is. I think we kind of got away from what it was at one point. It kind of turned into more of a just showcase of songs and, you know, performatives. More performative. So I like that way of doing it like that. That type of setup. Like, you take 15 minutes, I take 15 minutes.

[Rory]

Yeah. And I mean, the last one they did with cash money and no limit. They did it that way. And hopefully there's performers like, I would love to see Ray Schremmer together again with Mike Will.

[Maul]

J.D. definitely dodged the bullet with that bad boy one, didn't he?

[Damaris]

Ooh.

[Maul]

Wouldn't want to be attached to that And I'm talking about. They was going for the Mercedes Benz stadium.

[Rory]

Oh, I know.

[Maul]

That was going to be the. I thought they booked it. That was going to be the.

[Rory]

There was, like, a date and everything.

[Maul]

Hey, J.D.

[Rory]

I know.

[Maul]

I know. He happy that one didn't go down.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Maul]

To have to pull that up and look at that over and over again on YouTube.

[Rory]

Speaking of, JD I did listen to Ari Lennox album Vacancy over the weekend. It's good. It's really good. It's. It feels like Ari is more comfortable and less anxious than she was on the last project, because I know she was dealing with a lot of stuff behind the scenes with labels and this and that.

[Maul]

Is this. Is this a Dreamville album?

[Rory]

I wouldn't say that.

[Damaris]

They said it was a very horny album, but Art.

[Rory]

But Ari's always said that.

[Maul]

Well, she got off the label. Now she can be horny again, so.

[Damaris]

Okay. Because, you know, you squirt when you're comfortable.

[Maul]

You got to be the most comfortable. Got to be. If she's not comfortable, she ain't gonna squirt. Rory, I don't know if you knew that or not.

[Rory]

I don't know that. Okay.

[Damaris]

That's a callback, y'.

[Mall]

All.

[Damaris]

I'm not being overly freaked out. It's a mall call.

[Rory]

That's very funny. Well, all of Ari's music. I wouldn't say Ari's music is. Is horny, but she's always talked about sex through or just because it's a neo soul sound. Are you listening to the lyrics?

[Maul]

First of all, the neo soul women are the most horny.

[Rory]

No, Jill Scott.

[Maul]

Just because they got into pepper grinder.

[Rory]

To a mic stand and I was.

[Maul]

Like, incense lit and they got Bob Marley on their wall, don't think that she ain't about to go in there and squirt all over the place.

[Damaris]

Yo, Ma.

[Maul]

Yeah. Don't let that neo soul fool you. Just shave up butter and all of that. I know, but.

[Rory]

No, most of. I won't say most, but a lot of Ari's music is. I wouldn't say, just sexually explicit.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

The record we did together, the first bar, is X Videos. I don't need those anymore.

[Maul]

I know. Like. I know.

[Rory]

Yeah, but no, it. It feels. It feels like she had less people in her ear. And knowing her, this felt like an album that. That she actually had full control with with JD And Brian Michael Cox, because they executive produced the whole thing, and they did everything in the compound in Atlanta. No, it. It's good. It's Very good. Stripped all the fat of the last two projects where I felt like she was super in her head and had too many people telling her what to do. It's not far off her regular sound. If you're an Ari fan, it's. It's still an Ari album. It's just.

[Maul]

Well, she with.

[Rory]

Now she's with Interscope, so she was signed with Dreamville and Interscope. Okay, left Interscope. I'm sorry, left Dreamville, just stayed with Interscope.

[Maul]

Got it.

[Rory]

Which is good too because if you're not on a sub label now you own 50. Well, not own, but you have 50 of your. As opposed to 25. Because if you sign to a sub label, they take 25 and. Yeah, so signing direct to the label is, you know, bit more profitable.

[Maul]

I get it. Shout out my Ari.

[Rory]

But yeah, no, check out Ari Vacancy. Really good album. Shout out to J. Jd, he got, he got in his bag. He has little ad libs. And on there I felt like I was listening to some, some Mariah back in the day. A lot of it is like 2000s. Mariah. Oh, you.

[Damaris]

I'm about to go run to it right now.

[Rory]

No, and she. And Ari was always great with Valsetto, but she went more volsaito than I've ever heard her before on her previous projects. But now JD throwing little ad libs in there and I was like, okay, I'm not mad at this shit.

[Maul]

Jd, JD and Bcox did the whole album. Album Fire.

[Rory]

Yeah. In. In the studio that we've been to, they locked in and just did the entire thing.

[Maul]

Fire.

[Rory]

So I liked, I like that R B compound. They over there with Division 85 and.

[Maul]

JD been doing that for a lot of years, man. Like I, I, you know, I always speak highly jade. Like he's what he's been doing, you know, the last.

[Damaris]

30 years.

[Maul]

More, more than that.

[Rory]

Before I was born.

[Maul]

Yeah. Crisscross was early 90s. We approaching almost.

[Rory]

JD's been working over 30.

[Maul]

Over 35 years.

[Rory]

35 now, so he probably 38.

[Maul]

Probably 35 years. Yeah. 90s. Yeah, I'm 91.

[Rory]

No, but even I don't think Crisscross was even his first group.

[Maul]

That might have been the first one though.

[Rory]

I'm saying that was the first one that popped. But he's been working.

[Maul]

Well, no, he's, he's been, he, I'm talking about. JD is a hip hop baby. He was a back.

[Damaris]

He was dancing jump. Came out in 92.

[Maul]

92.

[Damaris]

So let's give him. Since the 19. Since 1990. Let's give him. Since that.

[Maul]

That's. I said 35 years. Almost 35 years, 34 years.

[Rory]

It's funny, anytime I've been to his compound and there's been like a.

[Maul]

A.

[Rory]

A big R and B artist that there. That didn't work with him prior, every single time I've talked with them on the side, I'd be like, yo, I've never been with a legend that still touches the machine, which to me is a big, big things. Like, every time I get with a list, legendary producer, they don't touch. Like, they just be hitting the space bar on some shit. And I'm like, all right, who. Who did that?

[Maul]

No, JD Is still.

[Rory]

JD Sits there and cooks up from scratch. He's gonna hit every instrument. When you in there, like, shout out to him.

[Maul]

And B. Cops, I think they was number one, number two on the top producers. I mean, of the 21st, which they fuck. That's insane. Shout out to the guys, J.D.

[Rory]

Brian Cox, before we get to either voicemails or close out this first Netflix episode.

[Damaris]

Good job, guys.

[Rory]

I do. I really hope this Chad Hugo and Pharrell thing gets. Gets solved. I'm not mad at. If Chad feels like he was done wrong and he's owed royalties. We know Chad Hugo is a genius the same way that Pharrell is a genius. We know Chad is just kept to himself. But if you're not paying royalties, and I'm not saying Pharrell is even responsible for that, he could have put that in people's hands, his business management team, and said, hey, you figure out the publishing, make sure everyone's paid. I don't want to sit here and condemn Pharrell for those types of things because I don't know the information. If he did that shit, I'm here to condemn him. My favorite producer, I'd still condemn, but I hope they figure this out. I don't want to see, like, my favorite fucking production dude duo just be in this place where no one's getting paid what they're owed. This. This. This was sad. Sad to see.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

But if I'm Chad. Yeah. Pay me what? Pay me what you owe me. I'm not gonna sit here for the. For the love of the game.

[Damaris]

For the love of the game. Are you crazy?

[Rory]

No. And. And. And again, I. I don't. We don't know the full details. They just said that Chad Hugo had filed a lawsuit for specific records. Drop it like it's hot. Holla back, girl. Moneymaker. You know, just billion Dollar songs, right.

[Maul]

Some songs that literally kept on the lights of some of these offices still.

[Rory]

Yeah, still keeping the lights on the back catalog is. And I mean, and that was at the time, you know, who knows, With MTV news, with pr when they were like, oh, no, it's a. I think it was a million dollars for drop it like it's hot that I was a kid. But I remember watching mtv and they asked Snoop Dogg was like, would you pay for that beat? It's like, I had to pay Pharrell a million dollars for that beat. A million dollars for one beat?

[Damaris]

It was worth it.

[Rory]

That's up front. That's not. You still getting 50%?

[Maul]

Yeah. You don't know. And you don't know.

[Rory]

A lot of producers don't take any money up front. You just get 50% pub and you can live for the the rest of your life off that shit. Pharrell was charging a million dollars a beat at that time and 50% publishing.

[Maul]

And you don't know what that song is going to do. It sounds great in the studio. We all vibing to it. The homies is fucking with it. We don't know what this is going to do in the world though. So I might be over paying for this beat and it's like that I.

[Rory]

Ain'T even recoup now. Obviously we know Chad is no novice to anything. I give Pharrell a lot of credit because like Swift, Swizz, I've seen interviews where artists are like, why swizz and Pharrell were so great to work with. When I got to the studio, they had the beat and the hook already done. All I had to do was fill in the verses. This wasn't even a cook up session. You gave me a hit record. You're on the hook. You wrote the hook. Here's the beat, I'm filling in three verses and we're done. I could do that in 10 minutes. And now I have the biggest record of my life. If Pharrell is writing those hooks, yeah, I could see him taking more royalties and pub on on certain things. But there's a lot of Chad beats with the Neptunes that everyone says Pharrell had nothing to do with. And Chad did all the beats. I don't know what's true at all. I just know they're my favorite production duo and I hope they figure it out. But I just don't think Chad, who's been minding his business and is quiet, is doing this for no reason.

[Damaris]

Do you think that where there's Smoke. There's fire in sense of, like Pharrell being a little bit funny with money because Khalees has been complaining about him.

[Rory]

For years as well, possibly. And. And again, I don't want to discredit Khalees whatsoever. I mean, that. That album in itself is like a 2000s classic. The amount of kids that came from that album. Tyler's a kid from that album. You can listen to Tyler albums now and you can hear the Khalees. Khalees's first album. And you hear the single the same. I've also heard that she didn't write on it, but I don't want to take that from Khalis because I don't know, I was a kid. Yeah, but there's been so many conflicting points from producers, engineers on who wrote what, and a lot of people have said, all right, Pharrell wrote some of that, so why wouldn't he take royalties on it? So I. I don't know. It's the most confusing business on earth.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

If I. If I make a T shirt, the T shirts, $10. The designer charges this much and we put it up for 50% markup and the person distributing gets 10%. That's an easy business. I don't know what a baseline cost or what it's going to affect, how many points. I don't know what that is. If I make a baseline that we later find out is the reason why everyone loves this song. I'm going to be sitting there like, yo, give me my fucking money, dog. That's the reason why we all love this. Now, you can't do that with a T shirt. I. I sold you this t shirt for 10 bucks. Yeah, this t shirt is always worth 10 bucks.

[Maul]

There moments like this where you gotta.

[Rory]

It's such a confusing business that.

[Maul]

No, it's not.

[Rory]

There's enemies in. In. In awful people in it for sure. But even with the people that are trying their best, it's tough.

[Maul]

It's not a confusing business. People make it confusing.

[Rory]

I'm saying with publishing specifically, that's still not confusing.

[Maul]

Quincy Jones and Frank Sinatra had no confusion.

[Rory]

Well, they're going 50, 50.

[Maul]

You see how easy that is?

[Rory]

No confusion, no contracts.

[Maul]

And they never had a contract with each other. None of that handshake conversation. This what we. This is how we rocking. People make it confusing when they start doing shit.

[Damaris]

It's not always fuck shit, but I'm.

[Rory]

Saying it's always fuck. It's not fuck shit.

[Damaris]

It's fuck shit. No, sometimes you might not. Sometimes Two people can disagree on how much they brought to a project. You. I bought this and you bought this. You might value this more, but I value this more. The fans value this more. It can get confusing.

[Maul]

No, you make it confusing. We having this conversation before anything goes out this door.

[Rory]

No, we're making a song in the.

[Maul]

Studio, right again in here, right now. We haven't touched a lyric. Nothing has been played. Nothing. We're having a conversation. Yo, this is how we. This is what we doing.

[Rory]

That's not how it works.

[Damaris]

That's. I was gonna say that, but that's the creative process. If you haven't created anything, you don't know what you're going to create. Are you see what I'm saying? I can't tell you what. What my worth is, right? With. With this beat. I'm. I'm making a beat. Khalees is writing lyrics. I can't tell you what this beat is worth because I haven't created it yet. I can't tell you what these lyrics are worth because I haven't created it yet. Is the. Is the beat. The most important, important part of the song is the lyrics.

[Maul]

You don't know the part you're missing. Missing is what I'm saying. You look at somebody. I don't know if any of these people we're talking about have a more extensive catalog or more value catalog than Quincy Jones and Frank Sinatra, Pharrell, whoever else you want to name. I don't know if their catalog is worth more than Quincy Jones and Frank Sinatra. What I'm saying is the conversation that those two gentlemen had was very simple. Conversation. Handshake, shake. No confusion. Their entire career working together, none. And they made a ton of money with each other.

[Rory]

Okay, okay, let's say, all right, Frank was writing everything, and Frank sang everything. Now, let's say they put something down on a skeleton track where Quincy just had some strings playing, and then he's going to go with a whole orchestra and a bunch of musicians. After Frank leaves, we have a 50, 50 handshake. Now, if I'm a musician, musician that played something, wrote something on the song, that's what I think. A lot of people misunderstand when they see Spotify credits. Writing, writing doesn't mean you necessarily wrote the lyrics writing the song. Child is a writer on all my stuff, even if he didn't write a lyric at all because he wrote music on there. I put writers on everything that wrote music. It's not just lyrics. Now, if I'm a bass player and I think I deserve 7.5% pub on this because the baseline is leading this entire thing. I don't give a fuck what hand should shake Quincy Jones and Frank Sinatra have on this. Quincy, this is coming out of your 50%. Yeah, yeah, we're going to have a conversation here. There's not everything is hyp.

[Damaris]

Like if, if Frank Sinatra and, and, and what he's saying is, I wrote.

[Rory]

Music on that, I deserve pub.

[Damaris]

If Frank Sinatra and Jones split 50, 50, right? They each have 50, 50. If one of them brings in some people, a chorus or a band or somebody to do something on there, you don't suddenly create more money out of thin air. That has to come out of somebody's fish.

[Maul]

Yeah, it's coming, it's coming. Yeah. So we. I had that conversation with Frank. Yo, Frank. I had to pay the business. All right, cool.

[Rory]

But that doesn't even come out how publishing works. That wouldn't even be a Frank conversation. That would be a Quincy conversation. Because how pub is split, it is 50 with the actual writing of the song and the other 50 is split up between whatever's happening with the music. Now, If Quincy's taking 50, if I know even if I go in to do a record, I know out the gate I'm hiring musicians and I don't play the game where I just give you a fee and take pub. I. I just don't play that game. I'm going to be on the right side of history. You're going to get your pub on that. But I know going in, if I'm starting a record, if me and Nick Grant start a record, I know for a fact I'm going to hire some musicians that are probably going to be able to play what I'm trying to do in Ableton way better than I ever, ever could. And I'm going to give them their pub on that entire thing. So if me and nick have a 50, 50 split, if we're doing an EP, my pub is supposed to be diluted for everyone that comes in there and writes music. And now that pub gets diluted a bit more. If it's something that I'm doing on Ableton and I want you to replay it now, I can have that argument with you. Like, hey, maybe you don't get 20% pub on this. Maybe that's more of a 10 to 15, because I told you exactly what I wanted to do and you played it for me. And that's where I'm saying it gets complicated because there's no real consumer The T shirts $10. We're selling it for 20. That's a debate between two human beings. And the song's not even out yet.

[Damaris]

And also ma, and you don't even.

[Rory]

Know what the value of the song is going to be.

[Damaris]

I'm sure Frank Sinatra and Quincy Jones didn't have any problems, but I promise you there's probably people that were in the studio with them or around them that might have had a problem with some things.

[Rory]

With our goats that we all love to death and speak highly of. Everything was shitty when they, when they walk in to a studio. We've talked about our, our favorite writers on this pod in the last two years. They don't get the pub they deserve because when it comes with this artist, they're taking 50% pub even if they didn't write anything. So now someone that wrote a whole song is getting 2% pub because it's also with a producer that walks into a studio and it's like I'm take. If I come in here, it's 50% pub. And that's with people we speak to about often and we, we champion. That happens to some of our favorite writer. Writers we've had on this podcast that won't speak about it because it's complicated and it, it's political and they're trying to keep their job. But yeah, you, you want to work on an A list artist, be happy with 3% if you wrote a whole record, which is crazy because you deserve 50.

[Maul]

Good point. But my point still stands.

[Damaris]

Okay, okay, people, we're agreeing to disagree on that.

[Maul]

People put bullshit. People put bullshit in the mix. They do.

[Rory]

Hey, no, they do. And I'm what I was really getting to. And we can close. This is the conversation I'm saying when, if I, if Quincy is telling someone exactly how to play something. Now we have a debate on what pub you owe instead of. Instead of. There's been times where I've had. You met Mitch, my bass player before. Mitch just comes in. If we have an idea, me and Azad and tell him there's a, a different version of pub there than if I send Mitch a record and Mitch comes up with the baseline. Mitch is taking at least 15% on that. He wrote a whole. I didn't even tell you what to do on the baseline. I gave you a skeleton and you came with a funky ass baseline. You taking 15% at minimum.

[Damaris]

So if, if we're confusing to the average listener who isn't into music the way that we are, and they don't know about this type what we're saying into chat GPT and it'll make a little bit more sense. Cuz I know that this can be fus. Be confusing for the casual music listener. They don't know what the we're talking about.

[Rory]

It's confusing to professionals in the music business. Yeah, yeah, that's. And what's so up is why everyone hates major labels. Is everything we're arguing about, somebody else ends up owning. That wasn't even there.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Now you wonder why everyone's pissed. Yep. Bully.

[Maul]

All right, Rory, it was fun, you know, talking to you today, debating you. Did we have a debate today? I think we debated.

[Rory]

Oh, we. I think we had healthy discourse.

[Maul]

I thought if I said something that offended you, I'm sorry. My frontal lobe is a little. I'm not. I'm not smoking weed anymore. So my frontal lobe is a little more clear than it's ever been in the last few years. Worry.

[Rory]

So next episode I will tell you about the time I slammed into a telephone pole and definitely fucked up my frontal loaf.

[Maul]

That explains so much.

[Rory]

That'll be fun. Oh, no, you should have told me.

[Maul]

This when I first met you.

[Rory]

It's actually a very fun conversation.

[Maul]

Like, hey, I was in a car accident. Frontal lobe is a little. Because then now I'm expecting anything after that. Like, oh, I get it. I understand. Right?

[Rory]

Fair.

[Maul]

Yes. You gotta lead with the frontal lobe injury, Rory.

[Rory]

Well, yeah, Josh added to the list. My frontal lobe injury.

[Maul]

Yes.

[Rory]

Want to know all about of our next episode.

[Maul]

All right. Well, this has been fun. Welcome to the family. The Netflix family. We are here.

[Damaris]

You can say it though.

[Maul]

Also bonus contents patreon.com New Rory and Mall where you can catch more of New Rory and Maul. And we'll talk to y' all soon. Be safe. Be blessed. I'm that nigga. He's just ginger. Welcome to Netflix.

[Damaris]

No worrying now.

[Rory]

Running my small business was like playing basketball. Five on one and I was the one. Now QuickBooks gives me access to a team of AI agents and trusted experts.

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[Rory]

I need nothing but Nick outdoit with intuit.

[Damaris]

QuickBooks feature availability varies by production.

[Jacob Goldstein]

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[Mall]

At CVS it matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night. And we want everyone to feel welcome, welcomed and rewarded. It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and yeah, healthy snack. At cvs, we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you get your medicine matters. So Visit [e-mail] or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you.

[Damaris]

Store hours vary by location.

[Rory]

This is Julian Edelman from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jewels. Sunday mornings I've got my game day read, Ritual Coffee, Lucky socks, and now.

[Jacob Goldstein]

New Morning Uncrustable Sandwiches. It's all about that 12 gram protein boost with the new Uncrustables Bright Eyed Berry or Up and Apple flavors.

[Rory]

Bright Eye Berries got a feisty receiver.

[Jacob Goldstein]

Energy up an apple. Your classic Do it all tight end, soft pillowy, packed with protein and easy.

[Rory]

Enough enough for Grunk to grab from the freezer.

[Jacob Goldstein]

Whether you're on the couch, driving to the tailgate or heading to the locker room, New Morning Uncrustable Sandwiches are the MVP of snacks.

[Rory]

Your new Sunday kickoff ritual starts here with New Morning Uncrustable sandwiches packed with 12 grams of protein.

[Damaris]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.