Episode 469 | Ray Daniels

Summary

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New Rory & Mal – Episode 469 | Ray Daniels

Date: March 19, 2026
Guest: Ray Daniels
Main Theme: The evolving state of the music industry, the intersection of culture and commerce, authenticity in hip hop, the Drake/Kendrick beef aftermath, and the challenges facing modern music executives.

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid, high-energy conversation between Rory, Mal, and special guest Ray Daniels—acclaimed A&R and music manager with a résumé spanning work with Lizzo, Beyoncé, Future, NLE Choppa and more. Together, they tackle the saturation of podcast culture, shifting power dynamics in the music business, the rise of social media artists, "the era of the superstar," label economics, executive visibility, and the fallout from the Kendrick vs. Drake beef. Ray provides inside stories from label boardrooms and offers blunt, nuanced commentary about authenticity, legacy, and what's next in hip hop.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Ray Daniels’ Journey & Music Industry Perspectives

[03:41 - 06:47]

• Ray explains how he "earned" his current status, differentiating working by merit from working off of connections.
• Recalls being recognized by industry titans (e.g., Shakir, KP, Hip Hop) as a sign of "making it."
• Admits that going online was born out of desperation, feeling boxed in after sending an open letter ("Dear White Music Execs") that spotlighted his Blackness in a predominantly white pop industry.

"I wrote a letter that put a light on me, that made my peers see me as black... I was clear."
— Ray Daniels [06:47]

Major Label Economics & Executive Culture

[07:21 - 15:08]

• Discussion about how A&Rs and executives are increasingly sidelined by viral moments and major label bet-hedging.
• Ray explains the logic of betting big money on a few acts, making the music business "an exclusive thing we're in."
• Shares how being forced to sign what higher-ups dictated led to frustration and realization that “they don’t know how to pick.”
• Ray, Rory, and Mal debate the decline of forward-facing "star" execs like Irv Gotti and Dame Dash, with Ray positing:

"The moment on Backstage when Dame cursed out Kevin Liles—that’s when the Black exec died... We almost lamed ourselves out the building. And now the lames have the power."
— Ray Daniels [11:12]

• Talks about artists’ shifting priorities:
  • Many are no longer focused on artistic greatness or legacy, but rather using music as a means to wealth.
  • Culture’s shift: "Our opinions are not bought based off our relationships." (Mall [06:04])

The Bobby Shmurda Conference Room Incident

[15:25 - 19:26]

• Reflections on Bobby Shmurda’s viral "dancing-on-the-table" label showcase and its mixed implications (from "shucking and jiving" to necessary showbiz ritual).
• Music label showcases: a “necessary evil” to measure if an artist is ready for high-pressure attention.

Fame, Virality and Superstar Scarcity

[20:30 - 25:53]

• The trio discuss the dearth of true superstars in the era of social media fame, where internet popularity often takes precedence over musical skill.
• Ray argues the love of craft and peer respect has been replaced by a focus on "licks" (quick wins), leading to longevity issues for artists.

"These artists don’t care about number one. They care about money. I'm rich."
— Ray Daniels [21:53]

• Reflects on the comparative drive of artists from previous generations (Michael Jackson, Lauryn Hill), obsessed with being #1.

Structural Industry Challenges & Power Dynamics

[23:12 - 27:28]

• A frank take on how major labels, now part of larger entertainment conglomerates, often see artists as line items on a P&L sheet.
• Major labels’ short-term mentality contributes to a lack of artistic risk-taking and sustained superstar growth.

"P and L sheet has music on it? You can't hear a P and L sheet."
— Mall [23:13]

• Discussion on streaming economics, TikTok bidding wars, and label “market share.”

On A&R Compensation, Integrity & Creative Credit

[31:48 - 33:27]

• Ray and Mall criticize contemporary A&R practices, especially execs claiming songwriting or publishing credit for what is basically networking.

"The person remembers it. Like the statement, 'They say to ask for gifts, but the tree remembers.' The person that you took that little 10% from will always remember you the motherfucker that took from me in my worst moment."
— Ray Daniels [32:28]

Hip Hop Battles & the Drake vs. Kendrick Fallout

[46:00 - 82:18 (extensive)]

• In-depth analysis of the Drake/Kendrick Lamar beef and its implications on industry dynamics, culture, and artistry.
• Ray draws a line between "old school" authenticity—standing tall after a loss—and contemporary responses (public lawsuits, media PR spins).
• Ray argues Drake lost his "effortless" coolness by engaging in lawsuits, comparing it to "acting like a Karen," removing himself from the mythos of rap’s unflappable champions.

"From the inside, I'm in the inside, right on the inside. You suing real people. You suing people you sat down and ate dinner with. These are the same people... They only told you these secrets because you was half us."
— Ray Daniels [47:56]

• Mal and Rory strongly challenge Ray, reminding that Drake commands a significant portion of Universal’s revenue and is entitled to enforce fair play if he suspects label bias.
• They agree, however, that the culture harshly penalizes public vulnerability and deviation from rap’s “cool, untouchable” archetype.
• Ray likens Drake (Chick Fil A) and Kendrick (Mastro’s), arguing one’s reliable mass market appeal and the other’s selective, deep artistry.
• The conversation turns to how age accusations, label sabotage, and jealousy from peers all contributed to the climate that set Drake up.

"The only person alive that can beat Drake in a battle was the only person he battled."
— Ray Daniels [59:55]

• They humorously speculate if J. Cole "lined up" Drake for Kendrick, or backed out to avoid the chaos.

Legacy, Genre Evolution, and What’s Next for Hip Hop

[84:57 - 89:55]

• The hosts lament that the Kendrick/Drake battle “ruined hip hop," marking the end of an era where artist rivalries could still captivate culture.
• Ray and Mall draw parallels to other genres aging (rock, jazz) and muse about hip hop’s own cycle toward legacy status.
• The problem: Content and social media have eclipsed music as the main driver of cultural relevance. The absence of superstar execs and top down creative leadership is felt.

"I feel like, until I see a label that has like a Top Dog type CEO, we [hip hop] dead."
— Ray Daniels [85:53]

On LaRussell, Public Identity, and Handling Social Media “Smear” Moments

[92:22 - 102:33]

• Mal asks Ray for his take on LaRussell’s turbulent social media moment (heaven sent/Hitler comments, Wayne criticism).
• Ray argues the best thing an artist can do is "draw a line in the sand," embrace their perspective, and not parse their legacy for acceptance.
• In a digital era, negative attention is inevitable; how an artist handles it determines their long-term standing.

"How people deal with attention is kind of how I view them... Once you have the light, how are you in this regard? Now, I'm not saying that in LaRussell's case because LaRussell's had a bunch of attention on him. I'm looking at now how you deal with negative attention."
— Mall [97:26]

Tidal, Jay-Z’s Attempts at Artist Unity & Industry Pushback

[105:13 - 110:01]

• Mall and Ray debate the legacy of Tidal, Jay-Z’s attempt at artist-centered digital distribution. While Jay’s strategy was "gangster" in going up against the Big Three, poor marketing failed to galvanize support from most artists.
• Ray provides insight into Jay’s industry struggle: "Jay-Z is hated amongst his peers because he's the only one that's famous…"

Ray Daniels’ Closing Thoughts & Personal Background

[111:07 - End]

• Ray offers anecdotes about growing up in the Bronx and Atlanta, and reflects on how immersion in two regional cultures made him a better industry leader.
• He gifts the hosts a "free haircuts for a year" card from his app, The Cut, and expresses gratitude for real, purist hip hop discussion.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Epic moment on exec culture:
  “A cool nigga is not intimidated by another cool nigga walking in the room... But when you're not a cool nigga, cool niggas intimidate you for sure.”
  — Ray Daniels [11:12]

• On major labels and the bottom line:
  “P and L sheet has music on it? You can't hear a P and L sheet.”
  — Mall [23:16]

• On the glory of legacy compared to viral fame:
  “They just need that record. They don’t know what to do with you after they get that record.”
  — Ray Daniels [08:24]

• On Tidal and Jay-Z’s industry push:
  "Nobody wins in business with Jay Z. That's why we don't do business with him. He's the only one that wins. That's how he is."
  — Anecdote from Ray Daniels about a label CEO [104:11]

• On the post-Drake/Kendrick era:
  “We might not ever get hip hop again the way we had it.”
  — Ray Daniels [85:00]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Ray Daniels’ Industry Journey: [03:41–06:47]
• Major Label Power/Superstar Execs: [07:21–15:08]
• Bobby Shmurda Conference Room Story: [15:25–19:26]
• Superstars & TikTok Economics: [20:30–27:28]
• A&R Compensation & Integrity: [31:48–33:27]
• Drake vs. Kendrick Beef Analysis: [46:00–82:18]
• LaRussell’s Social Media/Reputation Management: [92:22–102:33]
• Tidal & Jay-Z’s Artist Unionization Attempt: [105:13–110:01]
• Ray Daniels’ Background/Gifts to Hosts: [111:07–End]

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Tone & Style

The conversation is unfiltered, passionate, occasionally comedic, and marked by the insider’s blunt honesty that defines both Ray's public persona and the Rory & Mal show. The language maintains industry jargon, sharp cultural commentary, and a camaraderie that balances critique with genuine admiration.

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Useful For

This summary is ideal for listeners who want a comprehensive, detailed understanding of the episode’s deep dive into hip hop industry dynamics in 2026, executive roles, the impact of the Drake/Kendrick feud, artist authenticity, and the challenge of legacy in streaming-era music.

Transcript

[Ray Daniels]

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[Mall]

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[Ray Daniels]

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[Mall]

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[Ray Daniels]

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[Mall]

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[Ray Daniels]

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[Mall]

Grow with confidence, and put your AP

[Ray Daniels]

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[Mall]

Learn [e-mail] BillPay Again, that's QuickBooks.com BillPay terms apply. Money movement services are provided by Intuit Payments, Inc. Licensed as a money transmitter by the New York State Department of Financial Services.

[Ray Daniels]

It's the new me and it's the old them this woman's History Month the podcast if youf Knew Better with Amber Grimes spotlights women who turn missteps into momentum and lessons into power. My like, tunnel vision of like, I

[Mall]

gotta achieve this was off the strengths

[Ray Daniels]

of like, I want to make a better life for us. If youf Knew Better brings real talk from women who've lived it, unpacking, career pivots, relationship lessons, and the mindset shifts that changed everything. Listen to if youf Knew Better with

[Mall]

Amber grimes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

[Ray Daniels]

Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mall]

Then she says, have you seen a

[Ray Daniels]

photo of my son?

[Mall]

And I'm like, who is this person? Welcome to the Boys and Girls Podcast.

[Ray Daniels]

Arranged marriage is basically a reality show and you're auditioning for your soulmate. And who's judging? Only your entire family. I sacrificed myself to this ancient tradition, hoping to find love the right way,

[Mall]

and instead I found chaos, comedy and

[Ray Daniels]

a lot of cringe.

[Mall]

Listen to Boys and Girls on the

[Ray Daniels]

iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts on the CENO Show Podcast. Each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor cultural icon Danny Trejo. Talk about addiction, transformation and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to binge, featuring powerful conversations with guests like Tiffany Haddish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic, and without this trope, I'm gonna die. Listen to Cino's show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On paper, the three hosts of the

[Mall]

Nick Dickenpole show are geniuses. We can explain how AI works, data centers, but there are certain things that we don't necessarily understand.

[Ray Daniels]

Better version of. Play stupid games, win stupid pr.

[Mall]

Yes. Which. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift who said that for the first time. I actually. I thought it was. I got that wrong. But, hey, no one's perfect.

[Ray Daniels]

We're pretty close, though. Listen to the Nick, Dick and Paul

[Mall]

show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ray Daniels]

No worry and Ma. No conductor, no Chloe and Ma.

[Rory]

All right, Rory. Today we are back with a new episode, and we are joined. We got another guest, probably a guest that I think we both been wanting to sit down and talk to for a minute.

[Mall]

Yeah, this probably the most excited I've been for a guest in a minute. And I don't mean that in a bad way to our other guests, because everyone's great. Everyone. Every guest is the greatest guest you've ever had. But this is somebody we're supposed to.

[Ray Daniels]

This is somebody that.

[Mall]

This is somebody I've argued with at. Like, I've yelled at the phone.

[Rory]

Yeah, I've yelled.

[Ray Daniels]

I've yelled at my phone.

[Mall]

Like, I've argued with this person, and I never met them.

[Rory]

I've raised my eyebrows.

[Ray Daniels]

Like, what did he just say?

[Rory]

What? What did he just say? But he is one of the guys that I respect because he's actually done it. He has knowledge in the game.

[Mall]

A and R. Music manager.

[Rory]

Yeah. He's worked with, you know, everybody. Lizzo, Beyonce, Ri. The future. You know, he's so.

[Mall]

He's Nle Chopper.

[Rory]

Yeah, he's one of the. He's one of the guys that I respect, but when he says certain things, I'd be like, yo, I wanna. I wanna meet Ray first.

[Ray Daniels]

I wanna meet y'. All. I'm so happy to meet y', all, too. I can't have this back and forth

[Rory]

online because then it comes across the wrong way. So today we are joined by Ray Daniels.

[Ray Daniels]

They love me. They love me.

[Mall]

But by far, the last. The last year, some of My favorite content that's. That's come out of this music podcasting space. Because I. I do feel like this got oversaturated, the way everything has. So it's to find people that are just starting in this game where it's, like, refreshing and, like, okay, this person's gonna stay here.

[Ray Daniels]

That's what I told ma. I told Ma, said, we should have did you two years ago. I'm like, bro, I wasn't ready. I had to earn this. Like, I feel like I earn deceit. Like, I feel like when I did other shows, it's because who I am and what I've done, and I got relationships with everybody, so I can cheat my way into certain rooms, but it's those rooms of people who don't know you who's like, I found you online, but I respect what you're doing, so I appreciate that.

[Rory]

And you worked with my brother, so I didn't know that until.

[Ray Daniels]

No, listen, your brothers are my family, bro. So when they told me. When they told me you was a family, I was like, that makes sense. Because from our space, it takes a lot to be. To do what we do and go outside and give your opinion. Right. It's hard to do this. So when I seen you, I'm like, oh, he talks like he doesn't give a fuck. He has to come from something. He comes from something. He talks like, I don't care if they call me. I don't give a fuck. I'm a stand on it.

[Mall]

And even on top of that, because, I mean, despite what podcast fans and listeners think, our opinions are not bought based off our relationships. I've worked in the major label system. You have as well.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Ma is from fucking hip hop royalty.

[Ray Daniels]

He's family. He's royalty.

[Mall]

Yeah. The amount of calls I have gotten with people I've worked with, like, yo, could you say this? Nah. Or get mad at you when you start saying shit on the microphone becomes very taxing of, like, yo, we worked together for 10 years at Universal. Okay.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

I'm not gonna say nothing disrespectful, but I'm gonna have my opinion. Have you ran into that at all?

[Ray Daniels]

You know, I'm sure you have. This has been the hardest journey for me, and I feel like I'm just getting into the place where I'm having fun. Like. Like, I got online and started talking out of desperation. Like, it wasn't like I wanted to. Like, if I didn't write this letter. Dear White Music Execs, I'm probably evp or president of a label right now.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

So I wrote a letter that put a light on me, that made my peers see me as black. I was clear. So, like, I would be in a room working on records for Zara Larson, Pussycat Dolls, all these pop acts, and they'll ask me what I think, and I'm like, I grew up listening to 8Ball and MJG. I'm not giving you my subjective opinion. I'm giving you my objective opinion. I know objectively how to make records, but it's been hard, bro. That's why I'm glad I'm here. Because if I would have got it earlier, it would have been like, oh, they probably just know him from such and such. That's why they let him on.

[Rory]

That makes sense.

[Ray Daniels]

This is a real journey I'm on because I feel like I see the future and I'm like. And I talk to God every day and I'm like, I know what needs to be done. Like, y' all are more the future than they are. They just have the infrastructure and the history. So they are arrogant about it. But, like, I remember when I was coming up in the music business, when Shakir knew your name. If KP knew your name, you will if your brother hip hop. I remember the first time your brother called me and he said, ray, I'm like, oh, I'm in the game. Yeah, yeah, yeah, My name, you know, I came up in that industry. And then when I finally, finally got to my top SVP title, instead of signing what I wanted, I signed what they told me to sign. So now it was like, well, if we sign what they told us to sign, then why are we in here then? Like, we should all be outside. Because, like. And then you start realizing, like, y' all don't know how to pick. Yeah, because see, what people don't know about a major label is when they sign you, they're betting a million dollars off top. Because even if they gave you half a million, they know they have to commit to video spending, travel.

[Mall]

So, like, they're betting on a write off.

[Ray Daniels]

But even if it's a write off, they still know they gotta spend. So my point is this is, if they have 100 million allocated, they only can spend sign a certain. It's not that they can sign 500 things and see what works. Like, or it's not like they could say, we're gonna give. Instead of giving 100 artists a million, we gonna give a thousand artists a mil. It's like, what? Like you making it bigger like it's supposed to be. This is an exclusive thing we're in. So once I started realizing we were letting anything in, anybody in, and it was like, I feel like I'm that nigga. I feel like I've earned the right to be that guy. So when I come in a room and I gotta sell you myself to an artist, that's weird to me. Like, I knew who Shayk was, right. I knew who Hop was. I knew Kaiser was. You had to know the players to be in the game. But now you don't have to. All you gotta do is make some noise online. And now they're treating you like you're the next big thing and you feeling it, but you don't even know. They just need that record. Yeah, they don't have no. They don't know what to do with you after they get that record. And they know you need. You need a record. They all need the record. So they like, if I get it, that means I'm hot. The record don't have to work, y'.

[Mall]

All.

[Rory]

Right.

[Ray Daniels]

The record don't have to make no money. But the fact that I got the deal tells the company he's valuable because he can go get a deal. So when I signed Annalee Choppa, it was like a huge moment because it was like, how did you get that? You beat baby? How did you do that? I'm like, I just stayed in it. And I just know what. I'm just a human, bro. I know how to close shit. Like, I know what I want to hear. I know what I heard. I know what the motherfuckers told me to make me say, okay, he's offering 400, he's offering 500. He's off in this. But I like him the most. I know what that. What he said. So I just. Yeah, it's like, be a human bro. Just with people, they'll love you.

[Mall]

Yeah. I think even, like, with what you're doing, you know, being a former VP of A& R, we've always talked about the Irvs, Dames, like, those type of execs not existing anymore. Of course, we have qc, we have Orlando, We. We have, yeah, great execs, don't get me wrong. But not ones that are forward facing. Like, if you could imagine if Irv and Dame had twitch in 2001, my God, I don't know if they'd make music anymore.

[Rory]

No.

[Mall]

But do you think that that's kind of missing where there is an opportunity for that exec to come back as the salesman in the face of a label. Because. Because Irv and Dame were entertaining. They're both. They were both recipes herb geniuses in their own right. Yes, on a marketing side and business side, but they are also. You couldn't keep your eyes off them. Like you're dancing in puff included.

[Ray Daniels]

I want to ask y' all something. I have a statement that I want to make to y'. All. I believe that the moment on backstage when Dame cursed out Kevin Laos, that's when the black exec died. Because everybody say this before.

[Mall]

I disagree with it.

[Ray Daniels]

Hear me out, everybody. From that point forward, if you're watching Dame and Kevin, I know everybody that I was with wanted to be Dame, which meant you wanted to have your own stay outside the building. And it became lame to be in the building. I was like, you a suit. You lame. So we almost lamed ourself out the building. And now the lames have the power, okay? So I think that. So to me, it's like, you gotta understand, a cool nigga is not intimidated by another cool nigga walking in the room, right? Like, I actually want more cool niggas around. You know, some shit I don't know. But when you're not a cool nigga, cool niggas intimidate you for sure. Like, nigga, I remember me and, dog, I knew it was different when I signed this kid. 2K, baby. First thing he asked me, not do I know Timbaland, not do I know Pharrell. Do you know Gary Vee? I'm like, what? He was like, bro, can you get me in the room with Gary Vee? And I'm like, why the fuck do you want to talk to Gary Vee? What the fuck does he. You think he knows more than me?

[Mall]

Try to be insane. No.

[Ray Daniels]

And I mean, for me, it was just. It was interesting because, you know, when the art. You get to that point in your career where someone says, yo, I want to work with Timbaland, I'm like, facetime, Timbaland, my nigga. I work with Jermaine. You get those relationships. You take pride in that. So I'm like, who you want to work with? And you say a name. I'm like, what? Yeah, that's what you want to do. So you start understanding the world is different. You rather talk to Gary Vee? And then that made me say, imagine if Gary Vee was the president of a label, a major, every young artist would want to sign to him. So I was like, I'm going to be Gary Vee. I'm going to be the dude that gives all the information away. And, yeah, I could get paid for a lot of this, but 95% is going to be bullshit. But that 5% that. Listen, that's like, I heard you like me with Dame. When I see Dame and your Biggs, I'm like, y' all raised me. When I talk, I want y' all to be proud of me. Like, when I said something, Dame called and cursed me out. I was like, no. I'm like, this is. This is Dame Dash. Yell at me through FaceTime. Like, I made it in life. Like, I'm family with these niggas now. So I just wanted to be accepted by them. But these new guys, they don't care what y' all think. They don't care what I think. They're empowered by someone who's saying, fuck what they think. Do what you want. And that's why the game is.

[Mall]

But I think the same way artists now have to pivot to the times as far as being personalities and being more than just a musical artist.

[Ray Daniels]

Yes.

[Mall]

Even what Lior put out with the. The pivot with YouTube and the letter he put out the other day, like, artists, I hate to say it, guys, you have to be more than just this now, different time. I think executives have to be that as well. Like justice from lvrn. I've been telling yo, start a podcast. You have the craziest personality ever, and you actually know what the fuck you're talking about. Imagine a Shark Tank if it was Irv Dame Biggs in that regard, where Mr. Wonderful was the face of every product that he puts out.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Mark Cuban is that as well. I think there's an opportunity right now for execs to have that. It's just execs are super corny now. Yeah. So they don't really exist. But if you get someone like a sycamore that could be on Mike all the time and actually be the face of everyone that he signed.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Now we're having a different conversation, because Sycamore is really anr.

[Ray Daniels]

Sycamore really cares about this.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

Like, I remember working with Sick when he came to Epic, and I was. He was doing Travis, and he was. He was. He would say something, and it would be like it was a slam dunk, but it was so small. Like, I got a house. Travis gonna work. Metro's coming, and we're gonna go. Let's go. And. And, you know, that's not exciting normally. Normally it's like, I don't care.

[Rory]

Right.

[Ray Daniels]

Tell me what happened after you made the hit? But he was leaning in so much that I was like. You could tell he was one of. He didn't. He wasn't a label guy. He was with them and he worked at the label. That's what Sycamore skill.

[Mall]

Like, he gets that, like, started that way.

[Ray Daniels]

Same way I'm with the artist. Like, yeah, I was with the label because I had to give the late. I had my money came from giving the label a hit. I can give you a hit, but if he the label and he ain't paying for it, I don't give a damn how excited we are. He has to pay for it. So I knew the whole. I knew all the labels and the exec. So I came up in that world.

[Mall]

What years were you at EPIC?

[Ray Daniels]

2013-2015. I did. I worked with. So I did the Sierra Jackie album. So I did the I bet you start loving me. I turned that in and I did the Future Honest album. I just want to take you out and show you I did those two albums, amongst other things.

[Mall]

But, yeah, 1315, I asked that question because one of my first gigs was with Shot Money at Def Jam and then he went with L A Reid over to Epic.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Were you there the day that Bobby Shmurda was standing on top of a desk rapping to all those white people?

[Ray Daniels]

I wasn't in the office because I wasn't New York based. But right after the deal got done, it was a big issue because, you know Gotti, it was a lot of stuff that happened with that with Bobby Smurda. I know.

[Mall]

You know, like with Shy was the one that signed.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah, exactly. Sha Money trying to sign him. Yo, Gotti wants him. It's this whole thing. He's in LA's office. We don't give a fuck who gets him as long as Epic gets him. Yeah, so we gotta sign him. So I was there. That was a Shot Money took a. He shout out to Shot Money, man.

[Mall]

Shot was there when the. The studio got raided, when he got arrested.

[Ray Daniels]

He's one of the greatest executives, like, as a black man that came up in his business. So, yeah, Shot Money was one of those greats. And to see him not in a president's job is like a travesty to our world. That's why I wouldn't dare with people. I want him not in power sitting

[Mall]

on this couch if it wasn't for Shot.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

I want to ask though, like, what did Epic, like, what did y' all think when that video went viral with Bobby as working at that label, especially as a black executive. Even you writing the white executive letter.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Seeing that go viral and the whole Internet going, why is Bobby Shmurda standing on top of this fucking desk in a conference room.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Rapping to all these fucking white people on their lunch break.

[Ray Daniels]

I'll tell you, that was the way you got the business excited for you. There was no Internet. So you know the story of Nelly. Nelly was signed, he got an album out. They trying to get Universal to focus on it. He flies the St. Lunatics and Nelly up, plays the song in a meeting. They come into the conference room, take it over. I think that that's necessary, like, so that during that time, you needed to stand on the table. If you didn't stand on the table, that meant that you ain't ready for the big stage in the minds of the label. Cause that's the stage in the room. If we all stand and you stand on the table, you take advantage. So, yeah, it was a.

[Rory]

But that was a little crazy, though. That was like. That looked like shucking and jiving.

[Ray Daniels]

Well, it does, because. Okay, let's talk about it. It does, because you gotta remember, LA is the only fucking opinion in the room that matters. But everybody else in the room, if y' all bob y' all head, right? Say, if we in a meeting, bro. And I like, I wanna sign her. I'm like, I'm about to sign Alexis. She's with us. And I'm like, I'm signing her. Y' all motherfuckers better not bob y' all head. Don't do nothing. Cause your head bob might be an extra $300,000, right? Cause they like. I don't know how Ray felt, but Rory was bobbing the fuck out his head. I know he liked it. So sometimes you gotta. And that's another tactic that we do in the music business. Sometimes you just stare at the camera. You stare at the artist in the eye. And you sit, look in the eye. And if they look away, I know you don't believe in what you're saying. Like, so it's like tactics that we use was like, we're gonna stare at you, all of us, and see if you break. Cause that's usually how you break. You usually don't. Nobody usually gets in front of an audience. And it's 20,000 people that know the words. Usually it's 30 people. No one knows you. You gotta go out there, hopefully make an impression. So for me, that's a part of it. All of it is a Part of it. You just gotta play the game.

[Mall]

Yeah. And, I mean, I've been in plenty of conference rooms where similar things happen, but Bobby is at that, you know, he was a young kid from Flatbush. That's how he acts. Like, I don't think he was doing the shucking and jiving thing. I could see why the Internet thought that. But that is how they bring in new talent.

[Rory]

I'll show you something.

[Ray Daniels]

I can tell you a story. I can tell you a story. Epic story, by the way. Shout out to L. A Reid. Cause he taught me what showbiz was. So we're turning in Ciara's Jackie album. So this is Ciara, She's a big deal. We have the whole label come meet with Ciara. Like, if you're a new artist, fuck you. Like, Ciara has an album. Everybody stopped for two hours. So we in a playback. And mind you, we killed it, bro. Like, me and Ciara left, like, yo. And I never forget. This shit was like a scene out of a movie. We walking out of the meeting and everybody stays in. I'm walking my artists out. I know I gotta go in. And when we walk out, I see Janelle Monae and what's my man name? I'm a classic man.

[Rory]

Dejenna.

[Ray Daniels]

Jidenna. Jidenna. And they all dressed like Michael Jackson in the 80s, like suits and sh. With like these dressed up suits like army sergeants. I'm like, so I'm like, what's going on? And they was like, you need to go back in, Ray. We about to do a showcase. And they came in and when that fucking. He had. I definitely had a cane on. And he stepped up the fucking chair like a gentleman. He didn't jump on the table, came with his cane. Play that shit on the table. I'm a classic man. N told me after it was done, that's how you get a label excited. You and Sierra did good, but that's how you get a label excited. You make them jump on a fucking table and make them people see you. And I was like, and by the way, look what happened with that record. Like, we knew we had a hit day one because of how they presented it. So you're right, bro. But it's also a necessary evil. I need to see if you can do this because you're gonna have to do this. And if I give you a million dollars today and I don't check to see if you're gonna do this, it's gonna be pie on my face. They gonna be like, he went, nobody likes him. He doesn't perform, he doesn't work. And it's like, ah. I knew better because he didn't do it for me.

[Rory]

But the talent level. And we was talking off mike about this. The talent level now, though, in the industry. But is seems to be like. It's an afterthought. It's almost like, no, just be famous or be popular first. We can sprinkle talent around you, but you have to have somebody that has personality, somebody that people just want to click and watch. Like, is it more important to just be famous now? And the labels and people like yourself can be like, okay, we can sprinkle talent. We can bring in the right producer and make this a thing.

[Ray Daniels]

Well, I'm gonna be honest. What you just described has been the industry for the last five years for sure. And that's why we don't have any superstars. Because these guys are not really there to get. These guys are not really there to be like Michael Jackson, which is our goal. They're there to get rich by any means necessary. I remember one day I was talking to Chopper's manager and I asked him, I was like, yo, bro, we gotta get a record out. And he was like, we have the one sage in the. In the market. I'm like, the number one sage. Like, you know, like, that's the you. Like, I'm like, I never thought I would hear that. Yeah, from like, I'm trying to tell you, let's put out more music. And you like, nah, we got the number one sage. We enjoying where we at.

[Rory]

Right?

[Ray Daniels]

Artists are. Artists are treating themselves like spokesmen and just selling whatever they could sell. If it's music, cool. But if it's this shirt and I can make 10 million doing that, as long as I got rich, I won. And that's not the artist Lauryn Hill was sick as she wasn't on top of.

[Rory]

Right.

[Ray Daniels]

You understand? I'm trying to say, like, these. Michael Jackson would be depressed if he wasn't the biggest in the world. Like, I remember Michael Jackson's documentary. Bad documentary. No, not the bad. Yeah, bad. And Michael was calling the CEO of the label, Martin not cares about, but the guy. I forgot, Walter Yetnikov. And Mike would be calling him, saying, we're not number one yet. What are we gonna do? We're not number one. Think about that. Michael fucking Jackson from Thrill 100 Million is calling his label here. Like, we're not number one. What are we doing to get number one? That's why it worked. These Artists don't care about number one. They care about money. I'm rich.

[Rory]

Also, the labels care about money, too. And I think a lot of that is the labels are like, listen, we don't care how we make this money. We don't care about the artist after the artist is done here. Like, we want to make money. And I think that a lot of the, you know, the problems or the lack of great music that we have is because the mindset changed in both the labels as well as the artists.

[Ray Daniels]

But would y' all not say that? Stay right there. But would you not then blame it on the shareholders? Right? Because, like, if you invest in the music, you have to know you're investing in music. They being invested in music and don't want to take no Ls. Who the hell do you know? You royalty in this shit.

[Mall]

Wait, hold on.

[Ray Daniels]

What?

[Mall]

P and L sheet has music on it? You can't hear a P and L sheet.

[Ray Daniels]

That's what they care about. That's what they Listen. What you mean that's what they care about?

[Mall]

Even we talk about the big three. As far as major labels, Big three is now with streaming services, with movies, and they're just regurgitating every Marvel movie that ever happened. They don't give a fuck about film. You think they give a fuck about music? It's a P and L sheet. Yeah, but.

[Ray Daniels]

But we in trouble.

[Mall]

And. And on top of that, is it music? It sound fucked up. Sorry to cut you off. It did start too. When you have people, hov I'm a hustler. Just so happened. I know how to rap. I'm not. Hov loves music, you know, that's a music nerd at the end of the day. But his goal at the end of the day was not for his love of music. Hov was trying to get the fuck out the projects.

[Ray Daniels]

He was trying to get that money

[Mall]

as he fucking should. Jeezy was trying to get the fuck out of Macomb, Georgia. Like, they wouldn't do that if it didn't lead to a financial situation. Now, they happen to be extremely talented in what they do. These kids are just looking at the

[Ray Daniels]

lick like, that's what I'm telling you.

[Mall]

Like, everybody.

[Ray Daniels]

I could just go on YouTube and do it like. Jay came from the greatness code. Jay thought Jay cared what Big thought. Jay cared what Nas thought. He cared what Jazz thought. That's what made him great. These new Sexyy Red doesn't give a fuck with Lauren, thinks about her music. She don't care what Nikki thinks about her music. Cause I'm rich, and that's the problem. You're gonna get rich. But there has to be a respect part to it. Whereas, like, I want the respect of their peers. So that's why even me, like, you starting off saying, we saw this guy's like, that's respect to me. That means I heard someone speak like my peer. So I want to talk to you rather than like, who the fuck is this guy? Where did he come from? So a lot of it is just, you know, putting it out and hope they find it. But, like, oh, people don't care no more. That's my problem. Like, you don't care what your idols think about what you're doing right now.

[Mall]

I mean, the goal was always that, no matter who it was. Again, back to the Jay example. Jay is so smart. If he didn't know he was one of the best rappers, he wouldn't have looked at that as a lick lick. Now, the lick doesn't need talent. Like, Jeezy had to kind of learn how to, even though he's in the south. And. But I think if you compare right now to Jeezy. Jeezy's the crazy. Jeezy's Nas, as far as lyricism goes, compared to what's going on now.

[Ray Daniels]

And his catalog is so much better

[Mall]

than everything because he knew that that's what it took to be in the market, and the market doesn't call for that. But this goal is the exact same. Jeezy and Hov was trying to get

[Rory]

rich, but is it.

[Ray Daniels]

Is it just.

[Mall]

That's all he was trying to do.

[Rory]

Is it just in our culture, though? Because I don't think this happens outside of hip hop and outside of, you

[Ray Daniels]

know, I think it's.

[Mall]

You think people are for the love of stocks.

[Ray Daniels]

I think it's our culture, because our culture is. It's the poorest, right? Our culture came from poor people not having anything, saying, let's create something. So I think that hip hop is our extract. Like, it's how we can make money. And I like dog. My mother would be driving school buses right now for $2,500 a month if it wasn't for hip hop. If it wasn't for her son having an opportunity at hip hop to retire her in 2012. So to me, hip hop is our savior, but we're allowing it to be a joke. And that's my issue, where it's like, I don't mind a jokey artist, but can we get some real. But you can't get real if you don't have real execs in the seats. And these people can't tell you. And there's a few like Sycamore, Larry Jackson, Dash over at Geffen. There's a few that are really good. Orlando, Great Orlando. If there's some shit happened, I don't give a fuck if it's in the third world country, Orlando's gonna pull up with his jury on and a Rolls Royce and he gonna close it. That's what makes him a great executive, right?

[Mall]

And he's like, music. Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

And you got. You have to understand that part. We don't have that part no more. It's like. Like, I remember having to play a record for LA to get it out. Now, you don't have to play records to get it out. You don't just put it out. You don't even. You don't. It's $20, right? $3 at some places, like, just put it out free. At some place. We'll take out money on the back end. So I think the. The. They've made it the entry so low that everybody's coming in, but I think. I think we're past that. I think that the music is about to get back to what it was because the gold rush is over. Like, when the last time a TikTok artist made. Like, was it Jello? Jello's probably the last TikTok artist that had a bidding war that had like. And look what happened with that. So it's like TikTok number break deal.

[Mall]

7 million.

[Ray Daniels]

8 million.

[Mall]

8 million.

[Rory]

He thought that was great.

[Mall]

No, I thought it was a great deal for Def Jam. Cause I think they recouped in two months.

[Ray Daniels]

No.

[Rory]

Hell no.

[Mall]

On their investment. Oh, y' all are out y' all mind. And Ray, this is why I think it's crazy. You're saying this because you're.

[Rory]

13 million.

[Mall]

13 million. You're one of the few people that. That understands streaming that is on YouTube. Talking about this. You don't think that they made their money back in. In the span of the months that that Jello had.

[Ray Daniels]

You know what? It depends on how big their market share was. So let me get an example. Let's say if they were point market share and Jello Record took them to 1.1, that 0.3% jump is worth more than $8 million. You're right about that. But it's just the way streaming is paid out. So that's why. That's another thing. We're not rewarding the greatest. We're just like, it don't matter. It's like, I made money this court. I keep my job. And it's like, I remember LA told me, he was telling me about Clive and he was like, ray, I've never had the number one artist in the world. And I'm like, nigga, you signed Bieber? He was like, yeah, they were huge. But Clive had Whitney. And you know me, I'm like, I know Whitney was big, but to me in the 90s, I think Rihanna is just as big. And he was like, you have no idea. LA doesn't come from the world where having a hit and making money makes him happy. He would be sick if he had a hit and he was making money. He needs a superstar. That's what he feeds off.

[Mall]

But LA is one of, like, the last music men. Say it again. Presidents, like, like, Shout Out, Steve Bartles, like, everyone that's involved, Lucian, whatever. They're not music like la. You're. You're talking a foreign language right now. So I hear you, but nah, Jello with Sinks made that back in two months.

[Ray Daniels]

Probably did, but, like, but. But here's the thing. What happens when somebody else comes in the room?

[Mall]

What? A Def Jam deal.

[Ray Daniels]

What happens when the next person comes in the room with a viral record? What do you think he gonna tell Def Jam?

[Mall]

And first of all, I don't think he got no 8 million or 13 liquid. I think they put it up against something and they made it back on. What. What they put up. I think he made a little bit of change. But what they put against the loan that they had, yes, for sure.

[Ray Daniels]

But the way streaming pays out, if he helped their market share jump a few points, it's worth over 8 million. Like, if Spotify made 300 million and they got to pay you 150 million and it's based on market share, so that means if it's 100 million, you get 800,000.

[Rory]

Def Jam Investment was worth it.

[Ray Daniels]

Yes. So I'm like, so that's what he did it for? But, yeah, I wouldn't have let that number get out. I can't believe they left you a little. You gave Jello 8 million. I won nine.

[Rory]

Right, right.

[Mall]

I mean, to me, that. That's marketing. I. I think, respectfully, anyone that does, like, announce those. Those numbers and is stupid just because the irs. But to me, that's marketing with. All right, you guys in the bidding war, that was for Jell. Oh, you started the bidding war when you already had a deal with him for marketing purposes. You're putting that number out to make Jello seem bigger than he really is in that regard. Now it's like, oh, never mind. Maybe I gotta pay attention to this guy.

[Ray Daniels]

Can I give you some information? I don't even know if I'm supposed to say this, but fuck it. When we signed Nlee Choppa his we gave him 8 million. That was the biggest deal in Warner Records history in the Atlantic for new artists. And the way the deal was set up, we got. We didn't get his masters because he had a partnership with United Masters. So we had the income.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

N. I think nine months in, we got a $3.7 million check from United Masters. Now think about how big Choppa was compared to how big one song from Jello is. It's like, I don't think people understand the numbers. Like. And by the way, United masses might pay differently compared to major labels how they get streaming. But I know we recouped. I ain't gonna lie. When we came to 8 million, I was like, man, we fucked. I was like, I guess we ain't gonna never get that back.

[Mall]

I mean, Nle Chopper, not my type type of shit, but I would guess he's somewhere in the 20 million as far as value of which he would bring to a label.

[Ray Daniels]

He probably makes Warner about 15 to 25 million a year.

[Mall]

That makes sense to me whether he

[Ray Daniels]

puts out an album or not.

[Mall]

Yeah. Just with the back catalog that he has already.

[Ray Daniels]

That's what made me never take a job again. That's why I can't do what I did again. I can't. Like, I ain't been at that company in four years and I'm still making tens of millions of dollars and I don't get no royalties, no nothing. I'll never help somebody get rich again and not have something on the back end for me.

[Mall]

So. All right, here's my.

[Rory]

Change the business model.

[Mall]

This might be a quick nerd segment.

[Ray Daniels]

Let's go. I like nerd moments.

[Mall]

I agree that you should be paid way more.

[Ray Daniels]

Okay.

[Mall]

Based off that, if you bring someone in and they're bringing in this amount of money to a company, I'm with you. I've seen a lot of a RS try to put themselves in splits that they didn't fucking do. They're in pub that they didn't fucking do. And to me, I hear you as an A R, you should make more money if you bring in someone that is. Is generating this type of income for a company. But I've seen a RS do some wild of. Wait, you have 10 of this record.

[Ray Daniels]

Why? Why? Because you.

[Mall]

Because you showed up that day and transcribed the lyrics?

[Ray Daniels]

No, because they tell they. Because they tell me.

[Mall]

They say I produced it. You ain't producing a thing on here.

[Ray Daniels]

This is what they do. Rory and Mall is somebody y' all can get on the album. You ain't nobody. I want 10% if you make the album. Me bringing them in the room, I'm supposed to. Everybody wanna work with them. Me bringing you in the room, I'm not. So if I'm bringing you in the room, I'm gonna need a percent. I think that's whack. I think that's dumb. And I always say, like, the person remembers it. Like the statement. They say to ask for gifts, but the tree remembers. The person that you took that little 10% from will always remember you the motherfucker that took from me in my worst moment. So I like. I hate that. But like, it's a big thing, bro. And it's just like nobody has a problem. It's like nobody's saying nothing. It's like we. I can't believe this. Yeah, like, just bl. Like I came up. You put your mama name. Like. I ain't gonna put my name. I'm gonna put my mother name. They ain't gonna know who that is, but they just putting they name like, it's like, damn. No shame.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

Like. Cause my mind, I'm afraid of an artist. Like, my biggest fear, My biggest fear is the artist trying to call me out. Out. Because when an artist calls you out, you done in this business.

[Rory]

Are you though?

[Ray Daniels]

Yes. Name somebody. Name somebody that recovered from a real artist calling him out.

[Mall]

Can you give me some examples?

[Ray Daniels]

I don't think IRV recovered after 50 called him out.

[Mall]

You bugging.

[Ray Daniels]

You think IRV recovered after 50 called him out? Like he got back to the same IRV Gotti after 50 called him out?

[Mall]

No, I think a lot of that had to do with the trial with supreme and.

[Rory]

Yeah, that came.

[Mall]

And them being falsely accused of money laundering.

[Ray Daniels]

I'm not arguing none of that. But my point is still in association that he got caught up in.

[Mall]

Yeah, but that was just the. That was the Perfect Storm. The movie perfect storm. When three storms come together as one. That's so right. 50 was coming at. At one point. At some point, when you peak, you're going to start to fall. Murder Inc. Owned everything. There's only one way you can go after that. On top of that, all of Our assets are being frozen because I'm being falsely accused of never giving pre money except to do a fucking movie.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mall]

Which is legal. I. I don't understand when that became illegal. To give someone money to fund a movie.

[Ray Daniels]

If they draft on a movie

[Mall]

is selling crack on set.

[Ray Daniels]

Then get them.

[Mall]

But like I talking, they going to

[Ray Daniels]

find a way to blame it on somebody 100%.

[Mall]

So I think it was a perfect storm of those three things of the peak just hitting its peak and starting to fall as everyone does. Same way 5050 hit a peak and fell musically, everyone hits that.

[Ray Daniels]

Why nobody work?

[Mall]

So I don't know what you're saying.

[Ray Daniels]

Let me ask you a question. Why is nobody working with. What's Mary J. Blige's husband name? Ex husband name?

[Mall]

God the King.

[Ray Daniels]

What was his name?

[Rory]

Is it Kedar?

[Mall]

He's the only man that's getting out though.

[Ray Daniels]

Kendu.

[Rory]

Kendu.

[Ray Daniels]

Kendu.

[Mall]

Salute. King.

[Ray Daniels]

Listen. Kendu can't manage anything now because Mary don't fuck with him. Yeah, but when Mary don't fuck with you, you're not on the island no more. You're done.

[Mall]

But you got to pick. You have to win. For losing the you be the only man that gets alimony out of a case in. In the history of the court system. That's true. Own that. Shut the fuck up and sit over there.

[Ray Daniels]

But them table. But them tables you was able to sit at.

[Rory]

Oh, yeah. Oh, of course. Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

Jay Z table. Where you sitting at? You're done. He can't come Around. One artist said he can't come around. You're done. Pastor Troy did his masterpiece. He killed him. He killed no Limit. He killed no Limit. I don't.

[Mall]

But again, I think that's more of a perfect storm of what was going on with no Limit. I don't think Pastor Troy killed no Limit.

[Ray Daniels]

I ain't gonna lie, bro. I was in Atlanta. I was there. I was nigga. I thought. I no Limit Soldier dog. I wore no Limit Soldier. And then when Pastor Troy said tell P them down South Georgia boys is ready for war. I was living in Georgia. I'm like, man forget themselves. I'm a down south Georgia. It's like artists can change how people see people.

[Rory]

Oh yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

100 Biggie did it to Kwame Polka Dots. It's like once one person that's new says your is old, you are Jay Z did it to T. Pain. Death of auto Tomb. T. Pain admitted it.

[Rory]

Like she got a good nice check though. She just sold that catalog.

[Ray Daniels]

He got no, no, no, no.

[Mall]

I have to get pushback.

[Ray Daniels]

Let's go.

[Mall]

This is insane. And this is whole vengers. We are the most Jay Z biased podcast of all time. If there's one thing that Jay Z did not end it. The death of Auto Tune was a resurrection. Jesus Christ walked again after that death. Auto Tune is still here and is the number one thing in rap right now. Jay Z didn't kill. He did not kill T Pain. He did not kill. He did not kill wearing Timms anymore. That's the only two things Jay Z tried to kill and didn't kill.

[Ray Daniels]

Jay Z killed. Let me tell you.

[Mall]

He killed Rims.

[Ray Daniels]

He might not have killed.

[Mall]

He killed Jerseys.

[Ray Daniels]

Auto Toon. He did kill Jerseys. He did kill Rims. He might not have killed Auto Tune, but he killed the face of Auto Tune. Too much T Pain. And like when he said like, T Pain even admitted it. Like his money went from here.

[Mall]

Showing your age.

[Rory]

Damn, that hurt Pain, though. It definitely does hurt him.

[Ray Daniels]

It did hurt him. I think T Pain is one of the most.

[Mall]

How is that the case when you said death of Auto Tune and within the same months, your number one artist ever under you, Kanye west, who is an icon, stopped rapping and did a fucking T pain album. What?

[Rory]

800 ACE.

[Ray Daniels]

He did the album. He did the album because his mother died. And the One thing that ye did with 808's and heartbreaks is that.

[Mall]

Wait, he shows Auto Tune cause his mother died?

[Ray Daniels]

No, I think that he was emotional, he wanted to sing. And I think he was just trying something. I think his mother dying triggered him to say, I'm gonna go. Cause my father dying played a huge role in me. Like when Delta called me back after 9 11, I went, Father died. And I was like, man, Bill Cosby was my father. I wonder if I would be working at Delta. It was like death. When you was a parent, it changes how you see things. So I can see. I can see that happening and being

[Mall]

like, I respect that point. And I think that's a separate point that you're deflecting from. Jay Z did not kill him, by the way.

[Ray Daniels]

I love Auto Tune whatsoever. I love this shit. Let's go.

[Mall]

Jay Z did not kill autotune whatsoever.

[Ray Daniels]

I didn't say he might. I said he killed. He. He might not have killed Auto Tune. I give you that because people still use it. I think he killed the face of Auto Tune, which was T Pac. And I think T Pain was saying, listen, I think if T Pain was sitting in his chair, he'll say, hell, yeah. He my business up.

[Mall]

Oh, no, no, no. For sure. There was a few months where. Where that was the case. DOA came out in. In what year? 09909 would be my guess. T Pain had a number one album after that.

[Ray Daniels]

He still had beige people fucking with him. So, you know T Pain. T Pain can make a hit with anything. Like, you know, black folks weren't fucking fucking with you and that booty. I don't know. No, like that, but like, jamming that.

[Mall]

All right, so three rings came out this, that, around the same time. Okay, let's go. That, that, that happened. And now we're going through Chopped and Screw with Ludacris.

[Ray Daniels]

Chopped and Screwed.

[Mall]

That record was huge.

[Ray Daniels]

Truth.

[Mall]

Can't believe it. With Lil Wayne.

[Ray Daniels]

Oh, I can't. That came out after.

[Mall]

This was the same time that DOA was happening.

[Ray Daniels]

But you look what you're saying, though,

[Mall]

what are we talking about?

[Ray Daniels]

But you're saying, when you say. When you say Lil Wayne. When you say Lil Wayne and Ludacris, that's like saying he was accompanied by the sun. Of course it's gonna shine. Like. Like. Like. What I'm talking about is when he tried to go for himself. Like, we don't mind you auto tuning on there, on there, here and there. But when you try to feed us auto tune. After Jay Z said this the death of Auto Tune. And you know, everybody looked up the hoe. So everybody's like, whoa, maybe let me stop.

[Mall]

This is a bad joke. Peach, keep it. Then he. Charlie Kirked the whole thing. He killed the face and the. The whole movement rose. I agree with.

[Ray Daniels]

With that. I'm not mad.

[Mall]

Everyone did all. It's like, all right, if he killed T Pain's career, cool.

[Ray Daniels]

Yes.

[Mall]

Let's. Let's. Let's live in that hypothetical.

[Ray Daniels]

He killed him at the moment.

[Mall]

Everyone kept autotune after that.

[Ray Daniels]

Like, T. Pain was the only person that couldn't use it.

[Rory]

That's why I feel like T Pain spoke to that too.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah, he said, he's like, bro, I'm the only person that can't use it. I remember he said Usher came to him on a plane and was like, you kill R and B. He's like, what the did I do? All of a sudden I was a hero. And all of a sudden I got stars telling me I'm up the world, like, just having fun.

[Rory]

Yeah, I was just.

[Mall]

And if you look to really killed music, Pain shouldn't be on your list.

[Ray Daniels]

I was trying to sing, bro. That was my first album called Rapper Turks.

[Rory]

Great music.

[Mall]

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[Rory]

This is forever.

[Mall]

No, this is Forever Mall, okay? It's a permanent price with no contracts and no price hikes. You can keep your phone and your number, but you save up to $600 a year compared to any of the major carriers. Mall can you please stop overpaying and switch to a fair [e-mail] based on

[Rory]

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[Mall]

this episode is sponsored by Better Help. It is March, which means it is Women's Month. So let's all take a moment to celebrate all the women in our life and everything that they carry, whether it be work, relationships, family, all the roles that they play all the time. Damaris I want to acknowledge that it must be very tough to be on this podcast and maybe it could drive you into therapy. But thank God we have better help that can help you with all that you have to deal with when dealing with people like Mal and I. Damaris betterhelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US with over 30,000 therapists. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, Having served over 6 million people globally and it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for live sessions based off over 1.7 million client reviews. Everyone, please take some time this month, especially to talk to the women in your life and tell them that you appreciate them. Women deal with a lot and pardon the mansplaining to all of our women listeners. I know it can be extremely rough. Whether it be postpartum, whether it be work, whether it be relationships. Therapy does help with everything that you need. I can attest to the women in my life that have taken therapy with what they're going through. It's worked like you would not believe your emotional well being matters. Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com rorymale that's betterhelp.com rorymal hey,

[Ray Daniels]

it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my how we do it gaming team take on Gilly The King and Wallow. Two, six, $7 million gaming in an epic Global Gaming League video game showdown. Four rounds, multiple games, one winner, plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match match against Neo right [e-mail] that's globalgamingleague.com everybody games.

[Mall]

When you listen to podcasts about AI

[Ray Daniels]

and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about and they are experts at everything. Here at the Nick Dick and Pole

[Mall]

show, we're not afraid to make mistakes. What Coogler did that I think was so unique.

[Ray Daniels]

He's the writer, director. Who do you think?

[Mall]

Years. I don't know.

[Ray Daniels]

You meet the, like, the president.

[Mall]

You think the president.

[Ray Daniels]

You think Canada has a president?

[Mall]

You think China has a president?

[Ray Daniels]

La Crusette.

[Mall]

God, I love that thing.

[Ray Daniels]

I use it all the time.

[Mall]

What color? I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it. It like.

[Ray Daniels]

It's like the old Polish saying, not

[Mall]

my monkeys, not my circus.

[Ray Daniels]

Yep, it was a good one. I like that saying.

[Mall]

It's an actual Polish saying.

[Ray Daniels]

It is an actual poll. Better version of play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[Mall]

Yes. Which. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift who said that for the first time. I actually. I thought it was. I got that wrong.

[Ray Daniels]

Listen to the Nick Dick and poll show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

[Mall]

or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the new me and it's the old them.

[Ray Daniels]

Everybody's on their journey, and your journey

[Mall]

is different to theirs.

[Ray Daniels]

This Women's History Month, the podcast if you knew better with Amber Grimes spotlights women who turn missteps into momentum and lessons into power.

[Mall]

Power. I think coming out of where I

[Ray Daniels]

came from, I'm from the Bronx.

[Mall]

I think I grew up really poor. I didn't know that then because I

[Ray Daniels]

very much use my creativity to romanticize life.

[Mall]

And I'm like, my mom did a really good job of, like, you step back and you're like, whoa, We. I don't know how we made it. So a lot of my life was, like, built out of, like, survival to get to the next place. Like, my drive, my, like, tunnel vision of, like, I got to be better. I got to. To achieve. This was off the strengths of, like, I want to make a better life for us.

[Ray Daniels]

If youf Knew Better brings real talk from women who've lived it, unpacking career pivots, relationship lessons, and the mindset shifts that changed everything. Listen to if youf Knew Better with Amber grimes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my How We do it gaming team take on Gilly the King and Wallow 26 7's million dollars game in an epic global gaming league video game showdown. Four rounds, multiple games, one winner, plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match against Neo right [e-mail] that's globalgamingleague.com everybody games.

[Rory]

So, Ray, you. One of my, one of the things that I definitely wanted to talk to you about.

[Ray Daniels]

Let's go.

[Rory]

Was your stance on Drake's top tier reign being over as a result of him. I'm glad we talking suing during the whole battle thing now. Let's, let's, let's speak to that. Do you think that Drake's reign at the top is over? Do you think Drake's career will never be the same? Do you think people will never look at Drake the same as a result of suing the labels or just as a result of the battle?

[Ray Daniels]

I think all of it is one in the same. And I love that you're a Drake fan and you say some stuff where I'm like, come on, bro, you know.

[Rory]

But like what?

[Ray Daniels]

Like, like, nah, you team Drake. Like, hey, hey, I think you said, I think you, you are the only person on record that is credible because a lot of people say it, but you're the only credible person I know that say Kendrick lost. The only person that I know that say that. So it's like, that's a little like, God damn, he really must be.

[Rory]

I think the tide is turning though. I'm seeing more and more people say, yo, Family Matters was the best, best record in the whole beef.

[Mall]

That's an algorithm though.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah, you know, like, like I'm, my business partner. Alexis is famous for telling me that's your algorithm because they know what you interested in. Shows me something totally different.

[Mall]

Ties don't turn. Your algorithm turns.

[Ray Daniels]

So here's what I say. Number one, I said, Drake is done if he continues the lawsuit. Because what happens is, is you're acting like a Karen now. You gotta understand, rap is about being the coolest nigga rap is about being effortless. Rap is like, I woke up ghost.

[Rory]

Great.

[Ray Daniels]

Like, we. We wouldn't. We wouldn't like HOV if he tried harder. Part of what we love about him is he's so effortlessly great.

[Mall]

So meanwhile he. He tries so hard. Like, that's why he's so great, because he tries hard.

[Ray Daniels]

No, you're right. He stays. He stay. But he doesn't. He. He doesn't make it seem like he's trying hard. He's like Michael Jordan. The only time we saw him stressed out was a flu game, but every other time, he looked like Michael Jordan.

[Mall]

Joke with my friend. There's no way HOVs ever woken up after 10am yes, yes.

[Ray Daniels]

But. Nah, but, bro, when I said he's done, it's like, you gotta understand from the inside. I'm in the inside, right on the inside. You suing real people. You suing people you sat down and ate dinner with. These are the same people. That's like, you suing us. Like, you suing us for doing what we probably only revealed to you. Cause you was half us. You half us. You not. Like, they don't tell black people a lot of shit in the music business, bro. I ain't been at too many tables with white men that just was forthcoming with how for me to win. Black men all the time, but not white men. Drake is half Jewish, so he's at these tables. Them Jewish men, they like, bro, here's what we do. So he knows the secrets. So when you got mad, when he got used against you, to me, that's like, bro, you only know what they doing. And you sue him because they showed you, which is some going against the mob shit. Like, dog, you know how to. How much shit do you know? And you know that you will never. You probably say 90, 10% of the shit you know, and 90% you'll never say, right? Because we understand the world that we come from. So when Drake started like this and this, and it's like. Like, dog, you have a kid, when you have a baby, they hit their head, right? Everybody knows this. Don't react, because if you rat, they gonna cry. But if you don't and you act like nothing happened, they'll be like, everything is fine. But if they see you running to him like, oh, you okay? And it's like, Drake, if you just acted like you were okay, bro, we would have thought you were okay. Like, let's be clear, him losing the battle wasn't a detriment to his career. When rap Battles happen. We know someone is gonna lose. We know y' all are friends. We know there's nobody gonna shoot each other. So it wasn't like a real battle. It was like, yo, we know it's a battle amongst friends. So when you can't take a joke amongst friends, you make yourself different. It's like when we started off talking about. When I'm in class, I don't wanna raise my hand. Cause I don't wanna interrupt. Like, it's like you're interrupting the movie, bro. Why are you suing, bro? It's over. We would've forgot about it if you didn't sue.

[Rory]

But. Yeah, but that.

[Ray Daniels]

But.

[Rory]

But it's different in the case of. If you're Drake and have information on. On exactly what the labels were doing behind the scenes on that whole thing.

[Ray Daniels]

True.

[Rory]

And funds that were being used that you generated and this, that, and the third, and business. You're in negotiations with these labels and you may have asked for a number, and they don't want to give you that. So on this side, this new imprint that we signed, we're going to help this artist do something that may kind of take a hit on your career and your name and your brand. So we're going to help support that. Like, you can't see where artists will be like, oh, I see what y' all doing.

[Ray Daniels]

So let me tell you, Drake's. You actually just really helped me see something that I didn't see. What Drake didn't understand was that you're suing Lucien's office. Lucien is the daddy to all the companies. So one of his sons is Interscope, and they son is Kendrick. Another son is Monty, and his son is Drake. I have to treat both parties the same. So if he's winning, I have to help the same way if he's winning. Cause if he don't help, then you can have topping them saying they showing faith to their favorite. They don't want to help. So it was so a lot of the times, it's like you have to let the chips fall where they may. And, bro, everybody gets knocked down. And I ain't gonna lie, bro. I'm more of a Drake fan than I am a Kendrick fan. I just know Kendrick is more gifted. You know what I'm trying to say? It's like, I listen to Drake music way more than I listen to Kendrick. But you know the difference with how Drake is Chick Fil A, he's the top, he sells. It's always guaranteed. Kendrick is mastros. We might not Eat there every once a week, right? But when we do eat there, we know we going for something special compared to Chick Fil A. So my thing was, you gave him the advantage, bro. Like, I'm a Drake fan. I be wishing I was these niggas friends so I could tell him, bro, don't do that. Here's what Lucia ain't gonna do. As soon as you sue, what they gonna do? This guy is acting like a baby. Look at him. They're gonna make you look worse. So you. So I get it. Don't get me wrong, it's an ass whipping. Don't get me wrong, whatever it was, come back with a wreck. And if I was you, I would have said, like, remember how when Pink did the Don't Let Me Get Me, and she went from like, R and B to rock? And she goes, la told me you'll be a pop star, nigga. LA hated that line, Ma. He hated that shit. But it was like, she told her truth and they put a fake L A Reid in the video, and that's it. So my thing is, it's all the game, bro. Like, you are the biggest. You are the best. If you. It's like a nigga getting punched. You know, you walk up like, oh, you might cry in the car, but y' all not gonna see me. All I'm saying is cry in the car. These chicks love you. You can't cry in front of black women. You know that? You can't cry in front of them. You can't be lame in front of. You can't unlame yourself in front of black women. You ain't know that. That's why Will shoot the club before they get their ass whipped. Because you. She ain't going. You ain't get no ass now if you get your ass whipped. So you. You better off killing a. Going to jail for five years, coming out. At least Bras are gonna like you.

[Rory]

I'm a legend now.

[Ray Daniels]

That's my point. So with Drake is like, you would have been more of a legend if you just let it go. But now we're talking about Iceman and the lawsuit. We should only be talking about the music right now. You brought the lawsuit into this. That's all. I'm so. I'm like, if you keep that going. You think Universal would y' all do it if y' all was universal? You think Universal is going to work you and give you their best if you have a lawsuit against them?

[Rory]

No, I think they almost have to. Nah, he demands too much of the space.

[Ray Daniels]

I agree.

[Rory]

Like right now, all of these, we got some good music out this year. The only album that everybody wants to hear, the only artist that everybody wants to hear from is the one that is now deemed not cool. A crybaby, you know, lost the battle, is suing. That's not by coincidence. That's because he is the biggest and the best artist.

[Ray Daniels]

True. But when you're the biggest and the best, you can't play by the rules that the small guy plays by. You have to be the biggest and the best. That's what makes you that. It's like Mike Tyson, he. He lost the holy field, but he's still my favorite boxer ever. Because no matter how many times he lost, he got up like a man, he took it on the chin, and he kept going. He didn't say they cheated. It's like once you in the ring when he. Drake was saying they cheated for him. So I'm gonna sue them, bro. You lost. It's okay.

[Mall]

Okay, I like that point that you're saying, who on earth is playing by the same rules as Drake?

[Rory]

Nobody.

[Ray Daniels]

Nobody.

[Mall]

So granted, Jay and Nas probably one of the. At that time, the biggest battles we've seen in hip hop of what we would call two A list artists going at. I don't know if hip hop was the biggest genre data wise at that point. Now hip hop is that everything evolves and changes and the way things evolve and change, especially with business, when you are a hip hop artist. Drake's a pop star. Cool, Whatever. He's still a hip hop artist.

[Ray Daniels]

Hip hop all day.

[Mall]

When you now control close to the same market as Taylor Swift when it comes to a label. Back to the perfect storm theory. The latest battle we've ever seen in our entire lives is Kendrick and Drake because of the two biggest A list artists. When hip hop data wise, money wise is at the highest it's ever been. I know it sounds crazy to the Internet, but we can never speak like we know what Drake is going through and how important it would be. When you're negotiating a deal at the level that he is. During the biggest battle, where you generate that much money to keep the lights on there. And y' all got the motherfucking nerve to put money behind somebody.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah, you're right.

[Mall]

Of course it wasn't quiet because you are correct. Correct. What do you. What did Drake think they were gonna do? Pr wise? Of course they're gonna make him look out to be a crybaby. And I'm not mad at anyone that Says he's a crybaby. Yeah, I. I get it.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

But I could never imagine in that situation, generating the money that I do, knowing the information that I have to be like, yo, it's all about the. It's all about URL. Y'.

[Ray Daniels]

All.

[Mall]

You know what? I would like that. That's just all like. I get what y' all saying, but this is not. Hip hop is the number one genre or has dropped a little bit, but it's still the best. Biggest. Biggest genre on earth as far as cultural impact. And Drake has surpassed all of that. It's him and Taylor Swift in that building, bro. Of course I'm fucking suing. What are we talking about?

[Ray Daniels]

You're 100% right. But what I'm saying is, is that it's like, no, I'm not suing. You know what I'mma do? I'mma look at this. You know what?

[Mall]

Drake would have been better, so I wouldn't have sued. I'm stupid. So I wouldn't have sued.

[Ray Daniels]

If I was Drake's team, you know, I would have told him, let's ask to leave the label.

[Mall]

No, but that.

[Ray Daniels]

All right. No, no, hear me out.

[Mall]

No, but that's why I.

[Ray Daniels]

No, if I leave the label.

[Mall]

Get out of here.

[Ray Daniels]

Suing, what happens then? They afraid of me? This motherfucker about to leave. We got to make it right. But when you sue, like, I would have asked to leave. Yo, let me out of here. Since y', all, like, Since y' all want to work that. And y'. All. Y' all forgot that I'm the favorite. Y' all didn't protect my likeliness. Let me out this deal. Because he's worth. Drake is probably worth three or four. His catalog is worth about $3 billion. Like, if he sold it on an open market.

[Mall]

Agreed.

[Ray Daniels]

So why are you taking a half a billion dollar advance? You should have did what the Weeknd did. Went and leveraged it, got a loan, leveraged it against it. But you like the machine too, bro. And that's what I'm saying. You can't get mad when the system works for you. And when you get mad when it doesn't, like, that's my only thing. And like I said, I hate this mall. I'm glad I'm talking about this, because I'm a real Drake fan. Like, n. I love this nigga. Like, I remember fighting niggas. Like, he's gonna be the biggest artist in the world. That's kind of how I got credibility from niggas. Cause I Would be the first nigga when Best I Ever had came out. He's gonna be the biggest artist in the world. How the fuck you know? I could tell you he's half black, he's half Jewish, he's talking directly to women. He's no violence in him. He's from Canada. He's clean, clean cut. He's gonna be the biggest. And you know why? The most important thing he can do any genre because he's from Canada. Like, Kendrick can't do one dance. He can't. Unless he's with a UK artist and he's a feature, but he can't make that his song. Drake is the ultimate cheat code in music. And you, you got tricked out of your spot by. By the culture. And to me, that was the part that I feel. I'm like, dog, the culture really fucked you up. They made. We gonna do the battle. Drake had nothing to gain from the Kendrick battle. Let's be honest. Nothing. Like, no.

[Rory]

When you the top, you okay.

[Ray Daniels]

When you the top nigga. All I could do is lose. Why are we doing this again?

[Mall]

No, but. But you can't win for losing. Because I'd sit on this couch if. If Drake ducked to like that smoke, I'd be on this couch saying, yo,

[Ray Daniels]

but the like, that smoke came from. But the like, that smoke came from the first person shooter, right?

[Rory]

Didn't it?

[Ray Daniels]

It was a response to him. I think what happened with Drake was. This is what I think happened. I'm gonna tell you what I think happened from the inside.

[Mall]

Well, the first person shooter Drake didn't happen.

[Ray Daniels]

I don't have no idea.

[Mall]

But they have a long history of back and forth.

[Ray Daniels]

I think that what happened with Drake was that none of his peers could beat him. They knew they couldn't. And it was like. And the nigga could do anything he wants. He can do Rick Ross type music, he can do Travis type music. He can do ap, could do a K pop song if he wants. He could do whatever he wants because he's from Canada. And I think his peers got a little frustrated with that. So I think they've been trying to bait him. And, you know, he probably knocked off everybody girl, right? So, you know, you really want to get him. And it's like, Ross can't beat him one on one. It's like, we in jail, bro. Like, who can beat this nigga? Like, who's the one? And I think the only person alive that can beat Drake in the battle was the only person he battled. There's not another Human that could touch him. Nowhere close. But you went against the one nigga you shouldn't have, and then you took the bait. So when he's doing the slave shit, he's leveraging the half. He's leveraging the half Jew part. That was your superpower. Now the culture is looking at you like you don't know no better. Hold on. He don't know, bro. You went into dog. Kendrick comes from Compton, my nigga. They burpees. These niggas is burpees lifting weights at five in their backyard. They're three hours behind us, bro. Like, what time. Whatever time it is right now. No, it's 4:30 right now. It's 1:30 there. That's a whole different.

[Rory]

The only thing that's funny about that, I know mad niggas in Compton that

[Ray Daniels]

don't do burpees doing the push ups and shit. And I'm like, don't b. Don't battle him. Y'. All don't battle that guy. Like his friends want to get you. Like, I know two T. I know these guys. I've been around these guys. These guys are guys you don't want to play with. Drake is Canadian, bro. Be Canadian. Another thing I would have said, they never happen.

[Mall]

He's Canadian.

[Ray Daniels]

Hear me out. Let me tell you what I mean by that. He is being Canadian. But hear me out. Let me tell you what I mean. Here's what I'm saying. Kendrick has to come to Toronto one time and that's on tour. Drake, you're in LA a 100 times a year. That's all. I'm just saying, like, when one of y' all get off the train or get off the plane, you never know if it's a. A TSA motherfucker, that's cool. With somebody from top, it's like, you just never know. So I'm like, don't have that fight. If Cole comes in, do it. What if Cole lined him up? What if he told him we go? I just thought about, damn, that's. What if Cole lined him up?

[Rory]

I've been saying that because it's like the only half. And they killing me if they.

[Ray Daniels]

If Cole joins the battle. It doesn't go that bad for Drake because it's three people fighting each other. It's like, you know, I know the definition.

[Mall]

Definition of lining someone up. And I don't think that was the case. Why do you think that Cole would have lined him up in that situation? I think Cole backed up.

[Ray Daniels]

Okay, so look at it from this standpoint. Drake and J. Cole.

[Mall]

I think Cole. This was for funsies.

[Ray Daniels]

Drake and J. Cole are kind of the same person.

[Mall]

Yes, right. I agree with you. I agree with you. Hold hard.

[Ray Daniels]

Drake is just 100 times better.

[Rory]

Dreads. When you got dreads, they don't look at it that way.

[Ray Daniels]

That's true. No, but he grew the dreads up once you got dreads. But the dreads came after he was a full. You know that Full.

[Rory]

Once you got dreads. Yeah, 100%.

[Mall]

Drake braided his son's hair.

[Rory]

I don't know what that means.

[Ray Daniels]

I love you, bro.

[Rory]

I don't know what that means.

[Mall]

To who got it. It was funny.

[Ray Daniels]

It was funny. But my thing is, bro, you. You listen. If JCole does the battle, if I. Drake's team and I'm sitting with him and I'm like, okay, I don't. Listen, bro, Kendrick is dangerous and we got to go to la. I'll do it. If Cole's involved, like, let's all hit each other. But if it's going to be you versus him, let's gracefully bow out.

[Mall]

No, no, I don't think Drake thinks that way. I think Cole thought that way.

[Ray Daniels]

I think Cole lined him up. As I'm talking to y' all about. I haven't talked about this because the Internet hates me. When I say something, when I say Drake name, they're like, we hate this. So I'm like, let me stop talking about him because I'm a fan of his. But I think as we talking about it, I think Cole might have line if that. Think about it. If J. Cole lined Drake up, that is the greatest lineup in the history of rap music. Let me think about that. They were on tour together. They probably like, we gonna go at him. Let's do it for the hell of it, man. You know what? I'm straight.

[Mall]

I think you're. I think you're giving Cole too much credit in that regard. I really think he just rapped on first person shooter.

[Ray Daniels]

Yo.

[Mall]

It's the big three. Like, I just think he would. I think Cole is an actual nice. I mean, that good way, a nice guy, but also competitive rapper and just said some shit. And I think Kendrick, he's not a competitive rapper. I'm saying at the time when it

[Rory]

was time to compete, he didn't want to compete.

[Mall]

Hey, can I finish?

[Rory]

Oh, no. Just take that off of his name. He's not.

[Mall]

I think at that time, yes. And I can totally understand Kendrick's point of view. If I'm looking like, yo, y', All y' all hugging on stage. Y' all need to do a tour together. I could see Kendrick. Kendrick looking at that like, ugh.

[Ray Daniels]

You know, he was gross. You know, he was in the backyard doing push ups with short jeans shorts. Y' all gotta get together.

[Mall]

I can, I can totally see Kendrick especially be Kendrick being a very funny. When I say clown, I mean a good way. Like, yeah, Hedrick, clown on people.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah, for sure.

[Mall]

Like looking at that like, this is gross. Y' all hugging on stage to talk about the last 20 years again. Get the out of here. That was him and then doing it like that verse.

[Ray Daniels]

But that was hip hop.

[Rory]

I respect, I respect all that. I'm waiting for him to get with J. Cole. Apologize. Explain that.

[Mall]

I think when it comes to being competitive and here for the sport, Drake and Kendrick are alike. But I think as human beings, Drake and Cole are alike. And then when it got to that point, Cole was like, I'm not you, Drake. Because Drake doesn't get enough credit for going after anyone that says a word about him. I give him more credit.

[Ray Daniels]

That's true.

[Mall]

Which a lot of rappers, HOV included. You just give a little subliminal here. Drake will rap at you right away, no matter who you are.

[Rory]

But that's what Ray is saying. I don't, I don't, I don't understand.

[Mall]

Because ho and Drake are similar humans where Kendrick doesn't need to be part of it.

[Ray Daniels]

But my thing is this is the game is the game. And when you in the game and you're rich as Drake, that means you've taken a lot of losses, but you've taken way more wins to be as rich and successful as Drake. My whole thing is that's a loss we don't have if that's a loss that we focus on. The battle was two years ago. We still talk about it because of the lawsuit. If the lawsuit went away, he would drop music. It would have been over him and Kendrick would have hugged on stage in Toronto. It would have been.

[Rory]

I don't think it's cause of the lawsuit. I don't think it's that. I think that that was such a big moment that we gonna be talking about that forever. You can't be two years removed from the biggest moment in rap. Rap history and not talk about it

[Ray Daniels]

unless you're the biggest artist in history of rap.

[Rory]

Now. Do you feel like music wise because, you know, we've gotten some music this year, some good albums, some good music, but there's clearly a good. There's Clearly. And we say there's no who are the superstars. Yeah, right. So do you feel like there is clearly a wide gap missing when there's no Drake album music to really place?

[Ray Daniels]

Bro, we need him.

[Rory]

A lot of people don't feel like that.

[Ray Daniels]

No. If they don't feel like that, they're not paying attention to the economy. Like, Drake made artists that we might not have taken as serious feel more serious. Like when Drake does a record with block boy jb, like, you look at him differently. Like, Drake co signed him. Like he got a hit, but Drake co signed him. So it's like you need him. Because a Drake cosign is worth three years of a career. And if Drake just co signs you, that's three years of getting money. Right. Because of that. So I think we need him. I just. I just wish he didn't take it so personal. Like, if I was you, I would. I would have took it personal, but I would have never let them know. I would. I would have took Lucy and dog. Let me tell you something. When Michael Jackson was having problems with Tommy Mottola and he was like, they not going, oh, y'. All not going, oh, y', all, Y'. All. Y' all not gonna treat me like I'm Michael Jackson. He flew to Japan, met with the Japanese family that owns Sony, and got Tommy Mottola fired that way from the dinner table.

[Mall]

This motherfucker racist.

[Ray Daniels]

This motherfucker racist. He gotta go. They fired him. So imagine if you was Drake and you flew him. You don't think the owners of Universal, the Vindeed his daughter probably is obsessed with Drake, would love to sit at the. Probably get my hand job under the table while he talking to the dad and then say, yo, bro, I don't like what they. He would have got way more from it. But my thing was you're acting like a spoiled child when you are a spoiled child. Don't act spoiled when you are spoiled.

[Rory]

But why? Why spoiled? Why do you feel you.

[Ray Daniels]

Because you've always won. The reason why he's acting like this is because this is his first time. He took a real genuine loss, but

[Rory]

he's always won because he was better than that.

[Ray Daniels]

That's my point. I agree with you. But the one time.

[Rory]

You don't spoil. Like, they gave it to him.

[Ray Daniels]

No, no, I'm saying. But the one time. No, you're right. No, I think Drake is incredible. Like the one. He was in my top three until the lawsuit.

[Rory]

Like, that took him out.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah, to me, because, like, bro, like, y' all don't know a lot about me, but like the music industry, like they did me Dirty in 2020. They basically set me to die. And I could have sued and probably got crazy money. But I know they would have never respected me because they would have thought, you need to sue to win N. I'm going to put a camera on me.

[Mall]

That's a hip hop.

[Ray Daniels]

I'm going to come back.

[Mall]

The rest of the world sue.

[Ray Daniels]

But you like, what are we talking about? But if we're in hip hop, hip hop, you have to play by the rules or don't. And right now, Drake is not playing by the rules of hip hop because he's suing.

[Mall]

And I'm not comparing this to the Drake thing, but if you're not gonna

[Ray Daniels]

pay by the rules.

[Mall]

All the hip hop artists that we love and respect have sued people before. I'm not saying in a rap battle I want to make that clear, but let's not act like Jay Z's not sued somebody before. 50 cents. Not sued somebody before like that.

[Ray Daniels]

But I think when Jay Z sues somebody, everybody feels like it's valid. I think this the first time when no one feels this lawsuit is valid except for Drake Stans and his friends and his him. If I think that the lawsuit is dumb, it's not going to work. It goes go away. Perception wise, I'm. My thing is, is there's Drake is more powerful than Lucy and Grange.

[Mall]

I agree.

[Ray Daniels]

Let me make this known. If I, by the way, if Drake don't notice, he need to notice. He is way more powerful than Lucien Grange ever will be. Because Lucien only controls a back office.

[Rory]

I think he knows that, which is why he sued.

[Ray Daniels]

I wouldn't have sued. I would have. I would have sat on the table.

[Mall]

I get what you're saying, but I think that's UMG's percentage of universal income per year.

[Rory]

But back to the superstar thing.

[Mall]

I think it's one for Stars Breeze Stars for sure.

[Rory]

But do we. I think it's clear now. And I laugh because, you know, a lot of my homies in my chat, you know, they text me, yo, yo Maul, tell Drake we sorry, we need him, bro. 20, 24. We all lied. Like, you know, it's like it's a lot of that. And I'm just laughing because they're saying like, we're getting good music and artists are dropping and you know, we're getting some good projects. But to what they're saying, it's clear like, bro, we need that.

[Mall]

We need Music from him.

[Ray Daniels]

We don't need music, we need excitement. Drake, he brings excitement. Like none of these. Like you gotta remember like ye is a great performer. Cause ye watch hov hov watched Kane. These other people ain't watching nobody. Like they're not watching. These young boys ain't watching Travis saying I wanna be great like Travis. They just getting their money and saying, I made $3 million last year. You can't tell me I ain't a. Okay, you know, you need to make $3 million the rest of your life every year for you to maintain the lifestyle you have right now. That 3 million will burn out real quick in six months if you ain't got three more coming in. So keep, keep working, keep going.

[Mall]

But I don't really think that's the full problem. Like, yeah, Drake is needed here. But Drake is also a legacy act now and was getting probably the longest run and most dominant run we've ever seen in music. The issue is there's no one else to me like Drake. No matter. Let's take the battle out of everything, no matter what. Drake was eventually going to get to legacy era and he's about to be 40 soon. Like we're gonna. It's still no country for old men. To some regards with new music. You take the battle out and Drake is still the biggest artist and no one has a weird perception of him. It's still like duh. Like Drake can't keep this shit moving for the rest of our fucking life. Like it. No matter what. People would have been like, I don't know if I want the Drake cosign on someone that's 21 and Drake is 40.

[Ray Daniels]

That's another thing.

[Mall]

Even as talented as he could, to

[Ray Daniels]

be honest with you, that's another thing they did when they called his age out. Because you gotta remember Drake didn't age. Like Drake was still like 25 to me, right? And then he was like, he's 38, 37. Oh, why is he messing with a 21 year old? Then it becomes like, yo, he gave them two ammo. Too much ammo. Like it was like he didn't have to play by the rules, so he did. And then once they start focusing on him and they realize how many rules he was allowed to break, I think that's what made all his peers come after him. It's jealousy. I ain't saying it's wrong, but if Drake would have went against any other rapper in the world, we would not be sitting here. He only went against Kendrick and that was the only person you shouldn't have went against. That's it. I mean, I want to tell y' all something funny. Let me tell you something funny. I want to tell you this story. About five years ago, I'm in the studio with a super producer. I'll tell you off camera who it is, but I'm not going to say. Now, in a big song, the producer was huge. And they was arguing Drake versus Tupac. And the producer is from the old school, so he's arguing Pac, and the songwriter's from the new school. He's like, drake, Drake, Drake. And he starts screaming, you don't know. Drake. Drake. So the guy got up and punched him in his mouth. Wait, it's a true story. No, Maul, this is a true story. This in the studio.

[Mall]

No, no, this is an issue.

[Ray Daniels]

No, no, this is. No, this is a true story. By the way, this is five, six years ago. And I'm gonna tell. When I tell who it is, y' all gonna laugh. But he punches him in his mouth,

[Rory]

and producer punches the song.

[Ray Daniels]

Producer punches the songwriter in his mouth. And the songwriter falls to the ground like, what are you doing, bro? What are you doing, bro? And the producer stands over him and says, that's the difference between my generation. Your generation. Keep that in mind, because that's really just like, we. I came from a world where a will punch you in your mouth.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

You say something crazy, you might get punched in your mouth. And he got punched in his mouth, and as soon as you leave, said, what are you doing?

[Mall]

Can I. Can I ask you what the sentence was that got him punched?

[Ray Daniels]

No, he.

[Mall]

Cuz it definitely wasn't yo, hotline bling.

[Ray Daniels]

It wasn't. No, it wasn't even that. He just was. He was just yelling. Yeah, Like. And the producer is a yeller too. When I tell you, I'm be like, oh, yeah, I know how he is.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Ray Daniels]

He yells, too. So the other guy start yelling like, oh, yo. And he said, what? Yeah, just punched him in his mouth right in front of everybody. And the just fell to the floor. And he was standing over him, and I swear to God, he. He was like, that's the difference between my generation. Your generation. Little nigga, little nigga got up, got up, was like, he ain't gonna hit me no more. He ain't gonna hit me no more. And just walked out and said, he'll never work with me again. That nigga ain't made no hit since that songwriter. But the producer is filthy rich. I gotta tell that story.

[Mall]

Cause it was like there's a metaphor somewhere in this entire thing.

[Ray Daniels]

The whole point is that. The whole point is that you're gonna get punched in your mouth at some point for sure. And what you do back is gonna tell us what generation you from. Are you go and fight like a man or you gonna walk away or you gonna sue? That tells us everything. Oh, you sue. Oh, you my son age. Oh, you fight. Oh, yeah, you must be right. You about to fight. Okay, it's just degenerations.

[Rory]

But I get what you're saying. But I just think in that situation.

[Mall]

But Suge Knight also sued.

[Rory]

Yeah, it's a difference. I just think that again. Cause we hold Drake to this. He gotta be hip hop all the way through.

[Ray Daniels]

Right?

[Rory]

Cause you're saying that if you can't sue. Because that's not hip hop. That's not our culture. That's. That's not. But it's like we give everybody else a pass. They could do shit that's not hip hop. And it's like, nah, it's all good. What J. Cole did is not hip hop, in my opinion.

[Ray Daniels]

I agree.

[Rory]

But nobody wants to call that out. Well, what he did is. Oh no. He wants to protect his family. And you know, he saw that it was about to get ugly and nasty. I saw n die over rap.

[Ray Daniels]

I agree. What Was the number one sneaker from the 90s? Jordan Barkley had sneakers. Barry Bonds has sneakers. Deor Sanders has sneakers. But why was Jordan number one? Cause he was. And that's my thing. Like in my mind, if Drake is the only person the last 20 years have belonged to Drake for sure. Like dog. Like you like dog. One year you take a L. Who cares?

[Rory]

But it wasn't again, I think everybody, you know, it wasn't the music. I think it was more so what he knows that the labels were doing. And like you said, he's more powerful than Lucien. So he's challenging.

[Ray Daniels]

He only knows cause they told him

[Mall]

things evolve, things happening to be a rap. And I'm only telling you things evolve to the biggest.

[Ray Daniels]

Because they told him. And they only told him because he's on their side too. Yeah, once he used. You know what I tell people? Remember the whole Ryan Coogler deal thing. And everybody's making a big deal of his deal. You know what pissed me off about it? Ryan Coogler is not the first person to get that deal. He's the first black person.

[Rory]

Right.

[Ray Daniels]

Spielberg been having that deal. It just never. When black people get it, it becomes a big Fucking deal. Like, oh, yeah. Oh, it's a turning point. We get it. So that's all I'm saying. It's like he. He just. He just shouldn't have went into it. And if he did, he should have took what came with it, kept it moving, pieced it up with Kendrick, and then kept it going like, oh, hell,

[Rory]

can't piece it up with Kendrick.

[Mall]

Let this go.

[Rory]

Hell no.

[Mall]

Do y' all think it's wild that Tommy Motola was racist and gay?

[Ray Daniels]

He was gay. I thought he was married to Mariah.

[Mall]

He's gay, as is he bisexual?

[Ray Daniels]

If you knew Tommy would told the story how he became impossible power. He.

[Mall]

He. He was.

[Ray Daniels]

He.

[Rory]

He's a.

[Ray Daniels]

He's a smart. Because he only managed hauling oats. That's all he had.

[Rory]

And then Mariah.

[Ray Daniels]

No, he signed her, okay? And then he married her.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Tommy Mottola is not gay, according to.

[Mall]

Yeah, all right, all right. I'm just telling you.

[Ray Daniels]

I'm just telling you.

[Rory]

He says he's a heterosexual. He is a heterosexual male music exec.

[Ray Daniels]

That's what he wants you to know.

[Mall]

We're talking off Mike, and you had the statement that rap is a joke. I know you didn't mean rap is a joke, but I did want you to expound a little bit on that. Outside of anything we talked about Drake

[Ray Daniels]

and Kendrick, I stress that rappers should treat rap like wwe.

[Mall]

Rap is wwe.

[Ray Daniels]

WWE proves that men just want to be entertained. Like, all those guys are friends behind closed doors, but we don't care. We love the characters. And I just think that if you play more into that, like, say, for example, if all this was happening and we knew Kendrick and Drake was somewhere laughing at us, we would see it differently. Right? That's what I mean by wwe. Meaning, like, say, if y' all got something going on, and I'm like, who else got something going on? And then you find, like, let's just do something against each other. I don't care. Like, and now all of a sudden, we're in the headlines, and it's like, we're making each other bigger than ever for the moment to drive records of sales. We all won. We ain't really beefing behind closed doors. It's over. Like, who cares? Players.

[Mall]

Well, I mean, that's happening on the Execa. We talk about Lucian. I mean, his sons are on the three. Lucian has done Monopoly.

[Ray Daniels]

He.

[Mall]

He has all of Park Place everywhere. When you're putting your son in your rival as the head of that.

[Ray Daniels]

But here's the Thing.

[Mall]

So you signing 6 9, and he's beefing with somebody on your son's label.

[Ray Daniels]

Like, here's what people don't know.

[Mall]

Everyone's laughing behind the scenes, but here's

[Ray Daniels]

what people don't know about his son. Son. His son Lucien didn't want his son to go to Warner. He didn't want that. He just couldn't get the deal approved by the board because it was his son. What his son wanted. The board was like, we're not giving that to your son. No, he's not getting that. So Warner gave it to him. That's why he couldn't get it. He didn't place his son there. He didn't. But I think that that also is like, look at Lucien. Lucian is probably about to exit Warren. I mean, Universal right now. He might be like, that's what I'm saying. Like, he knows.

[Mall]

Is it?

[Ray Daniels]

My thing is Drake, if you mad at him, just don't say nothing. Get him on our backhand. His wife or something like that got

[Mall]

him in the 20V1. He's everybody's wife.

[Ray Daniels]

Hey, I would listen. My point is this. I'm gonna get your ass back somehow. Nigga, I might not get you back. I can't beat you over there, but I'm gonna get you back somehow. Drake could get his wife, his daughter, dog, his daughter out. Who cares? Like, do something to hurt him, but not sue him. That's all I'm saying.

[Mall]

But then y' all called Drake corny when he posted Lucian's daughter or whoever the it was.

[Rory]

When it's out, it don't matter what Drake.

[Ray Daniels]

Anything Drake do right now, they're gonna say corn a lawsuit. And that's what I mean by, like. I hate that he did that.

[Rory]

Because it's like that that follows him.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah. It's like, bro, you. He too great for that to follow him. But it's no choice because of how the culture is. It's like, you could go 999 days being the best man on earth. Good. That 1,000 day you had a day off, they turn on you. Yeah, that's fucked up. I feel if I'm Drake, I wouldn't even drop music no more.

[Mall]

Hey, y', all, n listen.

[Rory]

And that was another thing I was gonna get into. Like, do we feel like. Like, should Drake even drop music Music anymore?

[Ray Daniels]

Listen, man, I told you.

[Rory]

Oh, just let us suffer. Like, just let us keep this.

[Ray Daniels]

I told Joe, and I'm gonna tell y' all this. I can't. If I owned a 767 plane. Nobody could get me to respond. I will fly my plane over by your house, call you and tell you, look outside. I'mma pay the FCC fine. I don't give a how much it cost. I want to just ride by and show you I could do what I want.

[Rory]

Right?

[Ray Daniels]

Like, I. I can't beef with nobody.

[Mall]

I let the fighter jets fly by.

[Ray Daniels]

I will not beef with nobody ever in history.

[Rory]

I feel you.

[Ray Daniels]

Like, unless I'm beef with another on a private jet like mine. But if that's. Nobody's on his level.

[Rory]

See, but that's why. But that's why I respect it. Because you see how you say that. Yeah, but because he, he's hip hop,

[Ray Daniels]

he cares about the culture, he carries

[Rory]

that to a different level. Like, you say something to me, I'm coming at you. Like, yeah, to me, I, I think that's more commendable because he, he doesn't have to respond. He's at a level. But if he didn't, as a culture, we would have all sat here.

[Mall]

I would have sat on this couch.

[Ray Daniels]

I'm saying this on camera. I'm gonna say this on. Talking to you has made me feel more empathy for Drake than I ever felt.

[Rory]

Why is that?

[Ray Daniels]

Because you're right. It's like, that's what I mean. I hate when people take my words out of like, he's done. He's done if he doesn't drop. Like, by the way, anybody is done if they don't drop. Yes, that's true. Like, like, like, you don't think Rihanna's a little scared? Just a little. Like, what if they don't like this shit? Like, I know they anticipating it, but once I put it out, there's no more anticipation. So you don't think part of her is. Like, when she was in that every year album cycle. I was on every album. I love that cycle. Rihanna ain't dropped the Al album in 10 years. Like, of course, when she comes, she nervous. I won't play them games. I'm scared to death. Everybody can listen to my music.

[Mall]

And as much as I push back on more with this entire Drake and Kendrick thing, which we can end that part. You talk about super producers, which. I'll tell you off, Mike.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Super producer that is very much tied to that side. I saw him personally pull me aside. He whispered my ears and say, all is right.

[Rory]

But see, this is the thing.

[Mall]

No, but.

[Rory]

Cause I've had the phone calls. But I don't, you know, it's a lot of Shit, I'd be like, I'm

[Mall]

not even bringing that shit. I know the Internet won't believe anything I'm saying, dawg. Y' all favorite producer over there was like, yo, I'm all right.

[Ray Daniels]

You know what it is? You know what it is? The battle. They Not Like Us. Not Like Us is really the song that kind of pushed it because it was the first hit in the battle. Everything else we was just listening to, waiting for what was next. Not Like Us was the first record that they left. And like, nine months later, we were still bumping it. So it's like we forgot it's a Drake diss. It's just a bop in our head. It's like Meek Mill, dreams and nightmares, like, play that shit. We want to jump to it, but it represents something.

[Mall]

That's where Drake mismanaged the entire thing. Another amazing emcee said, they're both MCs. Drake ran into a writer, not an emcee, a writer. He wrote the script of what was going to happen. Whereas Drake thought he was about dealing with Kendrick. He thought because Drake is from hip hop, don't get it twisted. Drake is a fucking mc, was rapping on dilla beats when he came out. Drake thought, because I'm going against Kendrick, I'm about to do my rap. I'm about to have every entendre. I'mma do everything. And Kendrick knew that was coming and said, oh, now I'm going. Go in your world and go make it a hit. You think I'm about to do this rapity rap with you?

[Ray Daniels]

You know, I'm tell to be like, Let me see what the be felt like, you know?

[Mall]

But that was the okie doke. That's why Kendrick was brilliant in his strategy.

[Ray Daniels]

That's what I'm saying.

[Mall]

Yo, the lyrics on Not Like Us is like the worst lyrics. I mean, outside the third verse, but, bro, third, they're awful, bruh.

[Ray Daniels]

I just.

[Mall]

Because he knew Drake was gonna be like, yo, let me go try to outrap Kendrick. Because I think Drake is just a formal mc, as Kendrick is. But like, nah, if I'm Kendrick and I'm a clown, and I mean that in a good way, and I'm a writer and I know that Drake's gonna try to rap with me. Nah, let me just go do. Let me go. Do not like us.

[Ray Daniels]

Can I tell you what it felt like? You know what it felt like? It felt like he got lined up in the hood, right? Like slap boxing, you know? Slap boxing. You like slap box, slap Box. Then you get in the red, right? So. And then you slap. And then all of a sudden he punches you. They like, oh, what the? Now they like, keep going. You like, hold on, man, we supposed to be slap boxing. This nigga just punched me. Keep going. Now you gotta fight back.

[Rory]

I said no. I said all the time that no matter what I think the culture was

[Ray Daniels]

gonna say Drake, they lined him up

[Rory]

if he would have what Terror said made a hit or made us dance. Yo, this always trying to make you dance. This always trying to make a hit.

[Mall]

You can't win for losing in Drake.

[Rory]

No matter like, so, so, so to end it, like you said, at the top, when you're at the top, all you can do is lose. That's why I wouldn't have did it. I understand it, but I respect it. Because he kept it hip hop. He stayed in the battle no matter what. He didn't apologize. He didn't back down from nobody. Gotta respect it.

[Mall]

No, if you take an L and you was in the ring, I never win or lose.

[Rory]

I respect it.

[Ray Daniels]

Okay, one question I'm asking you that you might know the answer to. Cause I'm just curious. Does he.

[Rory]

How you plan is a classic.

[Ray Daniels]

Okay, no, no, for sure. I hope it is. But my question is, does he plan on dropping Ice while the lawsuit is still pending? Or do you think he's gonna wait for the lawsuit to end and then drop Iceman? Because it's hard to drop Iceman and get it to work with the same people you're suing. That's what I'm asking.

[Mall]

Still Drake, though.

[Rory]

Yeah, it's still Drake. I think no matter what, it's gonna work. The registers will ring. It's gonna be number one. He's gonna have.

[Ray Daniels]

You don't think they'll play dirty games to compress him to maybe shadow ban him? He does 200 instead of 500.

[Rory]

He'll try. But this, this album is so anticipated. It's going to break through. They're going to try. They're going to try.

[Mall]

But even like Nokia, you saw the dirty games with that. And I hate that I'm like on the Drake defending side of this, but I'm just an objective human being. Nokia was a huge hit. That would have been crazier if they weren't playing dirty games to block that record. Like Nokia would have been.

[Rory]

What did I miss? That shit.

[Ray Daniels]

What did I miss? Was hard n was like, that's not it. I'm like. But see, here's the one thing. What happened when he lost. Lost the battle. You gave us reason to question you. We never question you. Like when? What I. Like when I was questioning what? His left footstep. That shit wouldn't work today. Half of his records won't work. Hotline. Blake won't work today. Like, that's my point. It was. We didn't. It was Drake. So we all accepted it. Now we're like, how you feel about this?

[Mall]

No, there was just one time. That left footstep, all that TikTok shit he was doing during the pandemic, I didn't care because I already know he has one of the greatest catalogs of all time. If you want to do left footstep with a fucking shiesty on in your crib during the Pandemic, I don't hold that against your fucking career. I really don't. I thought it was stupid, like, but. Like, I don't really care, but what did I miss?

[Ray Daniels]

I thought that was hard.

[Mall]

I know, but at that point, to your. To what you're saying, it felt like a clean slate to some degree. We're looking at a new Drake. You gotta come with something crazy. And Nokia was fire. I just think the labels did their smear campaign during it in the same. Same regard. But I do want to get off this to your point that you've said a bunch of times that we've also said, I think that battle ruined hip hop.

[Ray Daniels]

It killed hip hop.

[Mall]

It ruined everything. So I don't even want to talk about it anymore.

[Ray Daniels]

It hurts me to talk about it now because we might not ever get hip hop again the way we had it.

[Mall]

I said after, like, that we could pull up the episode. I said, let's all enjoy this now because this is the last time we're going to see hip hop.

[Ray Daniels]

I agree.

[Mall]

This was before the battle. I said, like, that this is the last time we're ever going to see hip hop again.

[Ray Daniels]

Because you know what it is?

[Mall]

There's no superstars. It's dumb.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah, it's. Hip hop are always the cool guy. So it's like, remember rock was running in the 80s and the 90s and Axl Rose and welcome to the joke. It was, like, so different. And then all of a sudden, they was lame. They costumes look lame. Everything about it was, like, played out. And I think that that's what rap is right now. We just don't realize it yet because our kids still look like the rappers, but our kids are all famous now. Like, everybody's famous now. So I just think it's A. I'm afraid for hip hop. I feel like until I see a label that has like a Top Dog type CEO, we dead.

[Mall]

I think it's gonna go through the same cycle as every genre really has and just go to legacy and there'll still be some young acts there. But we're now seeing. Because hip hop is so young, we're seeing the Nas's and the Jay Z's age in a cool way.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Like if, I mean, obviously Nas is an investor in Ring Camera. He doesn't need to go on tour. But if we needed him to be what Bruce Springsteen is as far as that. Like my dad will go to MetLife. He thinks Bruce is the coolest. They love Bruce.

[Ray Daniels]

He's like the cool boss. Yeah, like the Boss.

[Mall]

Yeah, he could be. He could wear a, a button up shirt and just sit there with a guitar.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

And he'll be cool. If Nas needed to do that. I think hip hop is starting to age that way. Where I think KRS and Kane didn't get that, that, that opportunity because they were knocking the door down.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

At, at the time. I think if Elvis lived, I don't think he would have been this cool legacy act that y' all think he would have.

[Ray Daniels]

Cuz. Cuz you get a chance to get out of shape, the hairs get gray, stomach to grow out and it becomes like you don't look.

[Mall]

Yeah, but now, but now you'll get Grateful Dead led. Like people that can now tour in rock as legacy acts. Shit, even Kiss will take the makeup off and go do their thing. Now we're seeing rap do that because it's such a young genre. So I don't think it's over in that regard. Legacy is just starting. Okay, so HOV is doing Roots, Picnic, and that's gonna be old music.

[Ray Daniels]

Okay, I'm gonna tell you what I think. Cause you're right. I'm not saying hip hop is over. I'm saying hip hop, the genre of music is done. I think hip hop has. So you gotta remember first of all, like my kids are in the culture. Like probably if you had kids, they was in the culture. Right. Like you have kids.

[Rory]

No.

[Ray Daniels]

So my Drake and Kendrick was dropping. My son is the one that called me when Family Matters dropped. Yo dad, it's out. Go. Listen. Like, my son is 16 at the time. It's like, dog, we in the culture together now. When I was a kid, my mother was listening to Anita Baker and Luther Vandross and I was listening to Rakim. Now me and my Kids are listening to the same thing. So I think hip hop has an opportunity to spread. But we so used to. We trying to go through the roof and it's like, no, there's no more roof. The ceiling is up there. All we can do is just populate the floor we on right now. That's what I believe.

[Mall]

It's going through the same stuff cycle of, of every genre. And unfortunately, hip hop is hitting the worst time in history where music is meeting commerce. So in, in 20 years, Kendrick's going to do the 30 year anniversary damn tour and everyone will be there. Yeah, but as far as the young version of keeping the genre going, I don't know where that's going because everything's content based. And now you're running into Lior Cohen, who's the head of YouTube Music, saying, We're not focused on songs.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

So it's, it's not because of a hip hop reason. It's because of, of the.

[Ray Daniels]

But, but, but you know what I say though?

[Mall]

The playing field that we're in. But hip hop will live forever.

[Ray Daniels]

Hip hop is.

[Mall]

Drake is gonna do a huge tour at some point.

[Ray Daniels]

Like, hip hop has always been the driver. I can't think of anything that pop music made popular, right? Like a sneaker. Like when Will Smith goes Men in Black and all of a sudden we sell 3 million Ray Ban glasses in the following few months. Like, hip hop is the only, like, let's be clear. Like, let's just say it. Like the black man is the coolest man on earth, right? Any table that a black man.

[Mall]

There's an Asiatic man too.

[Ray Daniels]

No, no, yeah, for sure. But I say any table that a black man is at that table, if there's. There's eight other races there, they all look cooler because a black man is there. So, like, that's kind of like our currency. So, you know, I want to just rant on, but like, black men are we. To me. Hip hop is our extract. And I feel like, like your man, he's got to come on board, bro. I love Drake. I just wish that he understood that it's not personal. You're from Canada, so you don't know how we do in the States. In the States, we joan each other. I'mma snap on you from the beginning to the end. My best friend, the first thing he said to me was, hey, big head motherfucker, where you think you going? And he joan me the whole walk home from the school bus. And I just don't think Drake understands that in America, we Gonna laugh at you for from time to time.

[Rory]

I know. I think he understands that. But ain't nobody joking with pedophile though.

[Ray Daniels]

That's true.

[Rory]

We've never joked with that. You can't tell me one time growing up somebody that is so. You chested a molester.

[Ray Daniels]

That is so true.

[Rory]

When you ever heard that?

[Ray Daniels]

That's true.

[Rory]

You don't play with that. That's not something we play with.

[Ray Daniels]

I say who plays with that though? The that want you to get in the ring and fight him. That's why he did it.

[Rory]

Listen, I get it.

[Mall]

That's what's looking back.

[Rory]

I get it.

[Ray Daniels]

You're slap boxing a dude that's been in the back lifting weights, doing burpees that can't. Can't wait to fight somebody.

[Rory]

I understand.

[Mall]

Yeah. That was the problem.

[Ray Daniels]

He just. He couldn't wait to fight somebody.

[Rory]

He needed that moment.

[Ray Daniels]

I know.

[Mall]

But that was the problem with the entire thing. He knew. He said it on record.

[Ray Daniels]

Yo.

[Mall]

I know you got a thousand records sitting in the hard drive. Why would you. With that person. That person waiting to do this.

[Rory]

Because I'm a rapper.

[Ray Daniels]

Exactly.

[Rory]

I'm a rapper. And I ain't about to just leave.

[Mall]

You had tummy issues.

[Ray Daniels]

Just take a break.

[Rory]

I'm not ducking no smoke. I. I respect.

[Mall]

I know. I respect that as well.

[Rory]

No worry.

[Mall]

Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor Hard Rock BET Mall. That's Florida Sportsbook. Everybody knows that. It's tourney time March Madness. And my favorite thing to do at this time of year is fill out my bracket and get mad. Yeah. But does give me some opportunity to win some money at the end of the day. So join me in the volume bracket contest presented by Hard Rock bet. The grand prize winner scores a two night stay at the guitar Hotel at Seminole Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Hollywood Park, Florida. And if you're lucky mall will be there for a meet. And greet. And you get. And you get $1,000 in bonus bets to use on the Hard Rock Bet app. All you have to do is head to bracket.thevolume.com and fill out your bracket. That is bracket.thevolume.com to make your picks. And once your brackets locked in, it's time to hit the hardwood. Pause on the Hard Rock BET app all tournament long Mo.

[Rory]

So don't sit on the bench. Download the Hard Rock BET app today and let's get the party started. Payable and bonus bets. Not a cash offer offered by the Seminole Tribe. Of Florida. In Florida, offered by Seminole Hard Rock Digital, LLC in all other states must be 21 plus and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee or Virginia to play. Terms and conditions apply. Concerned about gambling In Florida, you call 1-833-play- wise in Indiana, if you or someone you know has a gambling problem wants help, call 1-800-9 with it gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, and Florida, Virginia.

[Mall]

Ray, you have posted a rapper that we love and supported for a long time here, LaRussell. You posted him a lot. You've talked about him a lot. Yeah. How have you felt outside of. Of him signing with Rock? And then the Lil Wayne comes. You're heaven sent. I just want to make that clear. Yeah, you are. I just want to make like. I just to make that. Just so you feel comfortable on the couch. Everyone here is heaven sent. I just want to make that. Make that very clear. How have you, as someone that has coached a lot of people's careers.

[Ray Daniels]

Yes.

[Mall]

And we love LaRussell so much. That's why I, like, love him. I hate that he's going through some shit even though he's. He's a human being and be up the same way I do with the attention he has on him now, has he been handling things?

[Ray Daniels]

You know what? I think he has.

[Mall]

I just want someone to put him, like, in a. Just give him a noogie and be like, yo, you are. You shut the fuck up.

[Ray Daniels]

Okay, so let me tell you, the greatest thing an artist can do is draw a line in the sand and say, I'm over here. That's the greatest thing an artist can do. Like, that means you know your audience, you know who you're making it for, you know everything. So to me, La Russell, to me is he's finally drawing his line. He had like. He's like. So, like, he's saying things like, I'm not gonna lie, that. That Hitler. Heaven sent. I understood where he was coming from, but he has to understand that that's like a white man saying, every KKK man is heaven sent. And we would be offended by that. So I get what you're trying to do, but just because you're trying to do good doesn't mean that you don't hurt people. So to me, that was the only thing he said where I was like, the Lil Wayne thing, I agree with. Right. I just. I think that Lil Wayne is a great rapper, but I don't think that Lil Wayne. I don't even wanna say this because it becomes bad. I'm just saying Lil Wayne can rap. That's what he's great at, rapping. I think that we like other people because of the character they also play. Like, I don't just like Jay Z as a rapper. I like the character he plays. I don't like ye as a rapper. I like Wayne as a rapper. I don't like the character he plays where he's like, I don't, like, think about it. He's like, black Lives Matter. What's that like? He's just never been with us. He's always kind of been like, ma', am, I sit in my own corner and do my own thing. And he's been able to get with that. But I don't think that's not why I would ever put him in that same space. And so when someone like Russell says, who gotta remember? Listen to this. I love Pac more now than I did when I was a kid. When I was a kid, I loved him. But as a man, I really love him. Cause I'm like, man, this man was talking some shit. He was 22, 23, talking shit. That still affects me today. So what I'm saying is to look at that from the Russell standpoint. You getting older, you're becoming more of a man. And now you're looking at your eyes like, damn, that's what he did. I wish he would have did this. So I know people judging him, but that's what happens when you grow. You got to think about this. HOV probably grew up loving Big Daddy Kane and Rakim. But at some point, you got to measure yourself against them and be like, nah, I don't like what they did. I like what I'm doing. And I think that's what LA Russell is. And I think growth hurts no matter what. If you think about the time where you probably got to the furthest, you was probably going through the most you've ever went through in that moment. So growth hurts anyway, bro. So. So to me, LA Russell is just growing. And now there's a line in the sand where everybody was behind him. Like, we love him. But now there's people over here that don't like him. And those people get. That's what drives an artist. Go back to the WWE thing. Like, my favorite wrestler of all time is Stone Cold Steve Austin. He's the greatest heel ever. I don't like a baby face. I like heels. So it's like, you can play different sides of the fence and still win. And.

[Mall]

Yeah, yeah. All right. Yeah. We are saying the same thing with the Russell part. I forget what he rapped about. Forget the Wayne. Because I agree with the Wayne thing as well. Like, I kind of looked at Wayne insane.

[Rory]

Ray was mad Wayne didn't get the Super Bowl.

[Ray Daniels]

Nah. No, no. I'll be real with you. I don't think Wayne. I don't think Wayne should do the super bowl because his.

[Mall]

Wayne should never do.

[Ray Daniels]

His vocals are so hard to follow. Like, imagine him singing a melody.

[Mall]

Lily.

[Ray Daniels]

Like, if they. You thought they had a problem with Kendrick singing. Damn. And we imagine I being in. Like, it would be. I just don't think he should do the Super Bowl.

[Rory]

Wayne should not do this.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah, I don't think so. But.

[Rory]

And that's okay. Everybody's not.

[Ray Daniels]

Everybody's not meant for the Super Bowl. Like, the super bowl is everybody. It's not just one corner of the world.

[Rory]

Right.

[Ray Daniels]

Because if Lil Wayne deserves it and so does Kid Rocky because he's. That he's Lil Wayne to that world.

[Rory]

Right?

[Mall]

Well, I mean, Kid Rock did his own Super Bowl. That's what I mean by Peach.

[Ray Daniels]

He should be able to.

[Mall]

I didn't even see Bad Bunny. I saw what's his name, Mar. But now with the Russell, I guess it's just interesting to see how somebody is finally dealing with not being a darling.

[Ray Daniels]

I love that.

[Mall]

That's why I'm observing this the Russell. And we've clowned him after he said that. But we support and love Russell. I'm just observing somebody finally not being a darling and how they handle that. Like, it's not just a woman thing. But I judge anyone how they deal with attention.

[Ray Daniels]

Yes.

[Mall]

That's a bit attention. You said attention.

[Ray Daniels]

That's really. I like that.

[Mall]

That's how people deal with attention is. Is kind of how I view them. Yes.

[Ray Daniels]

That's. That's who you are.

[Mall]

Like. Yeah, I know who you are. Once. Once you have.

[Ray Daniels]

Once you got the light.

[Mall]

Yes. Like, how are you in this regard? Now, I'm not saying that in LaRussell's case because LaRussell's had a bunch of attention on him. I'm looking at now how you deal with negative attention because you have been nothing but as rightfully so. You started this in your backyard. You deserve every bit of flower you've gotten in this entire time. But that's not how the world works. Now, you say one motherfucking thing wrong, which is kind of true about Wayne, or you say that dumbass shit. I'm not judging La Russell's rhymes based off that bum ass epstein shit. Because LaRussell has had 10,000 hours of amazing rhymes that make sense. You're just an idiot in that. We understand what you were saying. Stop it.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

I'm judging Russell right now of how he's dealing with negative pub. What you think through the whole thing? I think that's what separates everybody. I think Jay Z got killed and we saw how he pivoted and said, we doing. Streets is watching. Yeah, he knows how to pivot. Once you finally get some negative shit.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

To me, that defines what an artist. Artist is. And I'm finally judging LA Russell. How are you going to figure out for the first time, not being the darling independent rapper how we moving now? Because it was stupid. Stop trying to explain. I don't know what heaven sent me. Yo. It was dumb. It was dumb. It's not profound. I'm sorry. What you said was not profound. It's the mark, which we all do.

[Ray Daniels]

We all missed the mark, though.

[Mall]

Come on. I'm never judging somebody missing the mark once.

[Rory]

I'm saying. But the whole.

[Mall]

But how are you gonna move from it?

[Rory]

We all move.

[Ray Daniels]

But to me, I think LaRussell is fine because LaRussell is a household name in the hip hop space and none of us probably know any of his music, which means we hear him talk. We don't hear him rap. We hear him talk. We know what he does. Like, I know a few of his songs, but I'm saying, you can't. The Russell puts out 80 songs a year. He has a whole different model. Right.

[Mall]

That was my first conversation with Rest in Peace. To Hovain.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Which. Which was his manager at that point. I said, I can't keep up with his output.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

He's putting out so much music. I'm paying attention more to what he's doing in the backyard and what he's saying. I was trying to keep up with the. He was putting out like 10 EPS in like six months.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah, six month period. So he's playing a different game. He's treating music like a. I want to say like a hustle, but he's treating it like it's his trap and he's playing a different game. And I don't think this. The Hitler thing is gonna. Is gonna blow over because he's not gonna stand on it. Like, yay.

[Mall]

Did.

[Ray Daniels]

Like, he's not gonna stand in it. He's like. He's talked about it because, remember, you saw what he said. He said. He said I was Just trying to say they haven't said. Because everybody that's born is heaven sent. Now they become evil. But you playing a game with words that can hurt people. And that's why I'm like, he missed it.

[Mall]

But he's. He's acting like he's saying something profound. And we talked in the last episode. Even though I disagree with a lot of what ye said, at least yay. Started a conversation that came from an actual perspective point of view. You just saying everybody's having said like you arguing with us being mad at that. It's like though you didn't say anything profound.

[Ray Daniels]

That was the first time. You know what I was saying.

[Mall]

You have no perspective on this.

[Ray Daniels]

I'm gonna be honest with you. The Russell. I don't think the Lil Wayne thing was. I didn't think he thought it was gonna do what it is. Cause he was telling his truth.

[Mall]

And that was unfortunate.

[Ray Daniels]

But I think this time is the first time where he. He's learning. Like this is his first time he put his foot in his mouth and. And he's like, oh. Cause they're not gonna. He's gonna lose something for that. Like he's probably already lost something. He's probably already lost money. We don't want you to do a show. Probably a bought misfa. He was gonna get 25,000. He probably missed some money already because of it. But I just. To me, this is the first time we're gonna see how he handles it. And I think he's a great talker. I just think that he should say I fucked up, keep it going. But he has this silly side to him where it'd be like, what's wrong?

[Mall]

Let's talk.

[Ray Daniels]

I don't think he should do that this time. I think he should just let it go.

[Rory]

I'm on the opposite side. The Russell is so self built. I don't think nobody that supports the Russell's music, that knows his music will stop listening.

[Ray Daniels]

Of course.

[Rory]

I don't think nobody that has been to his backyard. The pagola will not go anymore. I don't think that the Russell loses anything. I think people that really don't care about any of the Russell was saying are the only ones that all of a sudden care about what Russell is saying. I don't think anybody cares about this the way they trying to pretend that they care about it.

[Mall]

I think that Epstein was the dumb thing ever. I'm sitting here, I'm a LaRussell supporter.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah, same here.

[Mall]

I thought it was stupid, but it Would never change my mind. I'm here to support LaRusso. He said some dumb shit, but all right.

[Ray Daniels]

There is not one celebrity that has ever lived that I agree with everything they said and did.

[Rory]

Nobody.

[Ray Daniels]

No personality. We live in society now where we think if we don't agree, that means we don't support. And I think that we got to lose that. Like, it's okay to disagree. He says something dumb. Everybody does. Everybody does something dumb. It's hot. They recover afterwards that we should focus on. And to me, I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt because he's been out, he's been talking, and he ain't up. Literally, he ain't said nothing crazy. And.

[Mall]

But I also.

[Ray Daniels]

Let's also be clear, Russell.

[Mall]

A beautiful example of how you should move.

[Ray Daniels]

Let's also be clear. LaRussell is. He's going to learn this because he's with HOV now. He's under the microscope. Everything he do, they gonna think Roc Nation.

[Rory]

Tell me that's the difference.

[Ray Daniels]

That's the difference. So I think that. I think that he. If he's smart, he turned it on because he's like, I'm with Roc Nation. They gonna think I'm. They gonna. I might as well do some Mafioso type shit anyway. Cause y' all gonna think it. I could see him doing that.

[Mall]

You know what's so fucked up about the. The position LaRussell's in is what he said, the Wayne thing. I know for a fact that there were people backing that clip for a smear campaign because he was signed to Jay. Now with that said with his Epstein thing, where it's catch 22 with the Internet now. You have that already. I'm signed here. Now I'm getting a smear campaign on X Twitter because I'm signed with him. Nobody give a about that Wayne. Yeah, nobody really cared about that Wayne. It was a smear campaign behind it for sure.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Now I say something about Epstein, and now the smear campaign is Jay told him to support Epstein. Like, how can you even. And I'm saying what he said was. Was stupid. But it's now to your point, being under the microscope with everything. Roc Nation. That's why I laugh. People think Roc Nation has way more power than it does. And I'm telling you, the people against Roc Nation are doing way more smear campaigns than Roc Nation is doing it. Y'. All.

[Ray Daniels]

I could. I could tell you. I can give you some insight on Roc Nation from that standpoint. Jay Z is hated amongst his peers. Because he's the only one that's famous. So like he, Jay Z.

[Mall]

What do you consider his peers when you say that?

[Ray Daniels]

The CEOs of the labels, Lucian, Lucien, the C, like they all are trying to kill his name because he beats them every time. And y' all gotta spend 2 million to get what Jay could spend half a million to get. Cuz he's Jay. So they gonna always hate on us. So Jay Z. I remember being in a staff meeting with the CEO of a company, swear to God, just says it in front of everybody. I should say something about Jay. And they was like, nobody wins when they do business with Jay Z. Like in front of. Like, you gotta remember this. Like, this is CEO of a major label talking in front of 50 of his employees. Nobody wins in business with Jay Z. That's why we don't do business with him. He's the only one that wins. That's how he is. And it's like, why the fuck would you say that in the like. But that's the shit we talking about. You have to somehow discredit him because the work. Let me tell y' all something. If Roc Nation gets one win, the big three on Trouble One. Not. Not this version of Roc Nation. I'm not talking about with HOV leading J. Cole. This, my little. I'm talking about this staff, this team. If they break something, man, I mean, it's over.

[Mall]

Title was the start of that. And that's why I respect Jay Z for so many things starting. Title, to me was the most gangster shit he's ever done in his entire life.

[Ray Daniels]

I thought that was a bad move. Fucking. And like, why?

[Mall]

Why? Because it didn't work out.

[Ray Daniels]

Because. No, the reason I thought it was a bad move was because the way he did it.

[Mall]

Oh, the marketing plan was the worst thing that's ever.

[Ray Daniels]

So if Jay Z would have started Title and said, I'm going to create a fun artist, going to eat from it, everyone type thing. But Jay Z did what. He has a famous line, less is more. Right? So he had. So you pick, hand pick the people you want to be on this table with you. And now you got 12 of the biggest artists in the world, but the other 990 that are out there, like, we never fucking with you. We never. And Tidal paid more than everybody else. But it was like I was just

[Mall]

about to say, I hope you know that Title paid artists out way more than anybody else.

[Ray Daniels]

Think about this. Why an artist not telling everybody to listen to their music on Tidal? Well, because Jay Z Picked the artist that he wanted to represent. Tidal. And that was the people that was ushered. And Nicki Minaj's the people that signed the paper. Alicia Keys, the people that owned it.

[Mall]

Okay, all right. Nah.

[Ray Daniels]

Prince. I think Prince was.

[Rory]

No, Prince was there. I think Prince was at the release, the press release.

[Ray Daniels]

I know Madonna.

[Mall]

I think he may have passed, like, maybe the same year.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah, yeah, but I know Madonna.

[Rory]

I think Prince was on stage.

[Mall]

Yeah, hear me out. Worst marketing plan ever when they had everybody on stage there. Because as a consumer, we looked at it like, why are all these millionaires complaining? It was the same way when Metallica did Napster. And it was like, dog, like I

[Ray Daniels]

said, I was down.

[Mall]

Mind you, Metallica was right. Rory.

[Ray Daniels]

I was downloading the out of Kaza. Metallica. I'm that like, I know kids. I got some money. I'm downloading this, y'.

[Mall]

All. So the marketing plan as. As far as that. Of what it looked like to consumers, not what it was. I'm talking about what. I'm a consumer. It's a bunch of millionaires up here telling me they not making enough money. Which is true. True. But Jay, at that exact same time, was also dealing with Apple, about to start Apple Music, and knew that Apple Music was going to start to do their exclusive deals. They did one with Chance. They did one with Drake. Everyone knew that these DSP wars were starting out as exclusive deals. You have to pay for my app to get that. So Jay, being the genius that he is, is saying, yo, Nikki, I will give you some stake in this, and we'll put all of our albums through this entire thing. And you know who, ironically, is the only one that ever stuck to that? Not even Jay. Jay didn't even stick to it. Who? Beyonce. You couldn't get lemonade off top. Beyonce is the only one that stuck to that deal. If everyone stuck to that deal that was on that stage, we would be having a different conversation. And I don't know the back. I don't know why they didn't. And it's not my business to know that.

[Ray Daniels]

I agree.

[Mall]

I'm saying what Jay was trying to do was one of the most gangster I've ever seen in my life going against the big three p like you going against you going against Spotify and the whole country of Sweden at this point. If he would have gotten everyone to stick to that exclusive plan. He didn't even stick to it.

[Ray Daniels]

I was about to say, but why didn't he? Because they know his wife. They know him.

[Mall]

He was the only one that stood stuck to it.

[Ray Daniels]

That's real. No, you. I just think. I just think that that was a bad move. I think the way he did it was bad. I think he still. I wish he didn't sell it because I think that.

[Mall]

Oh, I'm glad he.

[Ray Daniels]

I mean, it's time right now to get behind Tidal, because Spotify is kind of like the monster Spotify, more of an equal monster Universal now.

[Mall]

Right? I hear you. But consumers are based on routine. And at that point, everyone was scrambling to, hey, are you on Spotify? Are you on Apple? Tidal would have been the time to do that if all of our favorite artists only had exclusive albums on that point. We're too programmed. This is my phone. I got Apple Music Spot. I'm not. If you bring me a new dsp, I'm not signing up for it. But, like, I'm just not.

[Ray Daniels]

What if every artist said to you. What if every artist said, we don't. We know you don't care where you listen to music. Spotify, Apple, Twitter, whatever. But if you listen on Tidal, it means more to us. So please go to Tidal.

[Mall]

I think no, that's where you get people Patreon. That's where you get those. Those paywall things that are important. I'm saying Jay was trying to do something that we complain about. Why don't artists have unions? Why don't everyone do? Jay tried to do that and no one stuck to the plan. And again, I think Jay had horrible marketing with that.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah, that's my.

[Mall]

Don't. Don't have my guys with the masks on telling me they're poor. Like, I just. I'm cool.

[Ray Daniels]

We're poor over here, which. You guys are all private jets.

[Mall]

We don't want to feel sorry for none of you. Yeah, Like, I don't want to see Diplo tell me about the. I'm just saying that he tried and that time has passed. It's over. It's. It's Spotify and Apple, and that's just the world that we live in. The same way that it went from HBO Go, now it's Max now it's. Everything is just falling under the same.

[Ray Daniels]

Everybody trying to figure out what they going to be. We don't know yet. Everybody's like, we. I don't think the music business, though, we still trying to figure out. I think Iceman is going to tell

[Rory]

us, well, I want to rap.

[Ray Daniels]

That's the most important.

[Rory]

I cannot wait until this album come out because I. I want to have a conversation with you, bro, let me

[Ray Daniels]

say, I'll come anytime y' all come to Atlanta. We follow each other. Like, yeah, I love this shit. Because y' all are purists.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

No matter what. I like purists. Like, keep it pure.

[Rory]

Absolutely. Don't.

[Ray Daniels]

Don't dilute the waters for yourself, because that's cheating. Like, just keep it pure, bro. Like, as long as it's pure, everybody got a chance to win. It's like sports.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

It's like just Gary. But everybody get a chance to win. Don't just cheat for one person.

[Rory]

We're going. We're going to have a good. We're going to have a conversation. Once this Iceman album drops, I'm coming back once everything happens. Please, Like, I can't. I can't wait to sit next to Ray and then have another conversation about, you know, everything that has transpired.

[Mall]

You know, you're from the Bronx on low.

[Rory]

Really?

[Ray Daniels]

Patterson Projects. Nah, I went to PSA team. I graduated. I went to IS 183 Middle School, Junior high school. I left the Bronx when I was 12, right after my 12th birthday.

[Rory]

Oh, wow.

[Ray Daniels]

And I told you I love. Let me tell you something I loved. I was in New York, New York, New York, from 12 to 14. When I came the summer that Biggie dropped, Juicy dropped that summer, Biggie had New York on fire. I came to see my family. I was New York all day. I hang around my cousin cousins. They like, you old country. And I was like, damn, I'm representing. Yo, you ain't. You country ass. That was like, I might as well be from Atlanta. This. Y' all ain't gonna represent. I can't represent like, new. And I always say, bro, if you go to Patterson Projects right now, you might run into a cousin of mine. Might one out of a million chance, maybe. But if you go anywhere in Atlanta, Georgia, and you say my name, they all see me grind. That's why I claim Atlanta, because that's why I became a man. But I did see the Bronx hustling. I do come from some.

[Rory]

So you got some early, early DNA years.

[Ray Daniels]

And I tell people I think I'm great at music because I grew up in New York in the 80s, so I seen the block party turn into hip hop being what it is. And then I left for Atlanta in 91, and now I'm watching Atlanta flourish, and I'm also seeing New York flourish. So I had that point. But I wanted to tell y' all something real quick. So I'm the creative director of the Cut It's a haircut app. And I appreciate you guys, you know? So we got a jacket for you, but I want to offer. I got this for you. I got one in my pocket. I'm going to show y'. All. I'm going to offer it. Listen, I'm gonna get this to my. My guys. I only have.

[Mall]

Hold on.

[Ray Daniels]

I think. Oh, no. Here you go. Free haircuts for a year.

[Rory]

Oh, wow.

[Ray Daniels]

For you, free haircut. Rory for YouTube. So all you gotta do is. All you gotta do.

[Mall]

I don't have a tough cut. It's fine.

[Ray Daniels]

No, no, but I'm saying as many times you want, get your haircut. That's your gold card. All you gotta do. You can say with the same barber. All you gotta do is tell your barber to download the app. He should already. We got 300,000 barbers on the app. Tell him to download the app. Every time he get a haircut, he presses a button, you set it with him, he gets paid. You don't have to cover nothing. So, yeah, free haircuts on me, man. I just want to thank y' all for having me on your show.

[Rory]

Fire, man. I appreciate it.

[Mall]

Oh, yeah, Because I'm gonna get. I'm gonna get my barber to your. Love you, by the way, the squire.

[Ray Daniels]

And by the way, listen, And I'm gonna tell y', all, if y'. All. If y' all shout it out, you know, from time to time, I shout it from time to time, we might give y' all another year and another year. Like, come on, brother, like. And if y' all ever want to do something in the community, give haircuts to your neighborhood. Anything with haircuts. Barbering, call us. We got you.

[Mall]

They. They clown me a lot because my barber is also J. Cole's barber.

[Ray Daniels]

Hey, and by the way, he'll do. And we. We house calls, too.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Ray Daniels]

Yeah, yeah. No, no. If you out of town, anywhere you go, anywhere you need a haircut, I don't give a. If you in Africa, wherever you go, use that. Barber gonna find you, come cut your hair on us.

[Rory]

The. The cut, the cut.

[Mall]

And if my barber signs up for this, I could use that.

[Ray Daniels]

He probably already on there, but all he got. All he got do is sign up for that. And. And when you get his haircut, he gets paid all your money. Gonna pay him to the.

[Mall]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ray Daniels]

All right, cool.

[Rory]

This is dope.

[Ray Daniels]

Oh, thanks. Thanks for having me, man. I just want to say I appreciate y' all for having me.

[Rory]

I appreciate you.

[Ray Daniels]

We gonna talk to you again soon.

[Rory]

Soon, man.

[Mall]

Please come back after show. We definitely want to go on your platform.

[Ray Daniels]

Listen, anytime y' all in Atlanta, my is y' all come pull up.

[Rory]

Coming to talk. I'm coming to.

[Ray Daniels]

I like talking shit. You know? I like talking shit on the Internet.

[Rory]

I. I love it.

[Ray Daniels]

I love it.

[Rory]

I love it. I'm glad we finally got a chance to sit down and talk. Appreciate everything that you bring to the culture, all the conversations, all the knowledge, all of the Jews that you drop. That's Ray Daniels. I'm that nigga. He's just ginger. Peace.

[Ray Daniels]

That's hard.

[Rory]

No warrior.

[Ray Daniels]

Now, this is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.