New Thinking Allowed Audio Podcast

Episode Title: An Open-Ended Conversation with Chris Bache
Host: Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove
Guest: Chris Bache, PhD
Date: November 25, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth, open-ended conversation between Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove and Dr. Chris Bache, philosopher, professor emeritus, and author known for his meticulous 20-year exploration of LSD as both a tool for personal transformation and a window into the evolution of humanity. They delve into Bache’s spiritual journey, his contemplative practice, transformative psychedelic experiences, and his profound insights into the nature of consciousness, collective suffering and karma, reincarnation, archetypal realms, and the spiritual future of humanity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life Journey: From Catholicism to Spiritual Pluralism

• Chris Bache recounts his strong Catholic upbringing and early ambition to become a priest.
  • "I'll tell you, I don't remember a time in my life when I didn't want to be a priest... it just was there in the beginning." (03:21, A)
• Seminary years and eventual decision that celibacy and the Catholic path weren’t for him.
• Transitioned academically and spiritually through degrees in theology and New Testament criticism, eventually stepping outside of Christianity:
  • "The historical Jesus actually was my way out of Christianity and into a larger world of spiritual teachers." (04:38, A)
• Longtime study and teaching of world religions, heavily influenced by Houston Smith.

2. Intellectual Influences: Ian Stevenson & Stan Grof

• Ian Stevenson’s research on reincarnation profoundly changed Bache’s worldview:
  • "He convinced me in one reading... that reincarnation is simply true, it's just a fact." (07:20, A)
• The breakthrough shifted Bache’s sense of personal and collective storylines in life.
• Stan Grof’s pioneering LSD work influenced Bache’s approach to exploring consciousness:
  • "Stan's work was incredibly important, not just for psychology and therapy, but for philosophy, my discipline." (10:52, A)

3. Reincarnation: From Personal to Collective Meaning

• Reincarnation seen not as theological speculation but as an empirically supported aspect of human experience.
  • "If you don't understand reincarnation, then you really can't understand much that's happening in this world." (08:20, A)
• Describes life as one chapter of a much larger cosmic story.

4. The LSD Odyssey: Methods and Surprises

• Detailed his rigorous, methodical approach to LSD—73 high-dose sessions over 20 years, meticulously recorded and introspected.
• Initial motivation was to accelerate personal spiritual progress and complete “karmic work,” but the process led far beyond personal concerns.
  • “If you work with highly amplified states of consciousness, pretty soon you shatter the boundaries of your personal psyche.” (13:37, A)
• Described "chewing up karma" and confronting layers of self and collective experience.

5. Beyond the Ego: Encounter with Collective Suffering and Karma

• After dissolving personal boundaries, confronted overwhelming collective trauma and suffering:
  • "In the cleansing portion... there's this huge, deeper and deeper experience of the terrible suffering that still resides within the collective psyche." (17:42, A)
• Experienced what Buddhists call bodhicitta, awakening of compassion tied to a felt pre-birth commitment:
  • "It was basically reminding me of a commitment that I had made before I was born… awakening my compassion." (00:00, A / 16:47, A)
• Emphasized that trauma and karma are inherently collective, not private:
  • "There is no such thing as private karma... We're always drawing from and feeding back into the karma of our species." (21:49, A)

6. Layers of Consciousness: From Humanity to the Archetypal and Beyond

• Described transitions through various “layers”:
  • Personal psyche → Collective human consciousness → Archetypal (beyond human forms) → Unitive Reality/Primal Void
• Insights received:
  • Individual diseases/problems are expressions of collective humanity.
  • Archetypes experienced as vast, nonhuman forces—not as Jungian figures, but as immense, galaxy-like beings:
    • "I experienced archetypes as vast, massive beings living on a different order of time, a different order of reality... My mind imaged them as galaxies." (33:18, A)
• Experienced the fusion of all his past lives into a singular "diamond soul" – the culminating mystical individuation.
  • "There was an extraordinary explosion in my heart and that was an explosion of diamond light... it was a soul individuality, not an egoic individuality." (40:21, A)

7. Role of Teaching, “Quantum Pedagogy,” and Contagious States

• Teaching career at Akron State University—students affected by Bache’s inner transformation without explicit disclosure.
• Described “quantum pedagogy”: the sharing of consciousness fields between teacher and students.
  • "States of consciousness are contagious, negative states are contagious, positive states are contagious." (56:43, A)
• Subtle, synchronous events in the classroom reflected the “transparency” and energetic resonance from his inner work.

8. Cautions and Integration: The Cost of Deep Work

• Emphasizes he does not recommend his aggressive high-dose protocol—its energetic/psychological demands are considerable.
  • "I discourage people from using the protocol that I did..." (44:48, A)
• Stresses the importance of daily spiritual practice to stabilize and integrate the energetic aftermath.
• Understanding that spiritual growth is less about “reaching an endpoint” than “balancing our individuality and infinity.”

9. Physiological and Philosophical Reflections

• Engaged, but not fixated, on theories of LSD’s physiological function (e.g., default mode network).
• Noted most famed psychedelic writers/interpreters have had only a handful of experiences, missing deeper layers unlocked by persistent work.
• Recognizes each psychedelic as activating “different altitudes” or bands of consciousness (LSD: high-cosmological; psilocybin: emotional/body).

10. Holotropic Breathwork and Non-Psychedelic Methods

• Affirms that breathwork and non-drug techniques can access similar states; “psychedelics amplify consciousness, but it’s consciousness that does the work.” (65:48, A)
• Chose not to become a clinical facilitator but an explorer and communicator.

11. The Crisis and Future of Humanity

• Recurrent vision during LSD sessions: humanity is facing both catastrophic suffering and an evolutionary turning point.
  • "We are coming into a time of intense suffering, intense labor, but magnificent outcome. The birth of the future human..." (75:03, A)
• Sees hope in the “birth of the diamond soul,” a new collective human that integrates wisdom, healing, and identity beyond ego.
• Warns there are no guarantees—the future is not fixed—but his visionary direct experience assures him of eventual transformation (while remaining humble about the limits of visionary knowledge).

12. Living the Teachings: Grounding and Wholeness

• Discusses the challenge in integrating nonordinary experiences on returning “from the mountain.”
• Sought wholeness by re-integrating his public/professional life with psychedelic inner journey:
  • "The longest chapter to write... Coming off the Mountain... I had split my life in two parts. I was a professor and I was a psychonaut." (68:30, A)
• Emphasizes helping convene conversations among spiritual/psychedelic explorers for collective meaning-making.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Awakening Compassion:
  "It was basically awakening my compassion so that I would do anything if given the opportunity to save the children." (16:47, A)

• On the Collective Nature of Karma:
  "There is no such thing as private karma... We are all growing together, we're all arm in arm." (21:49, A)

• On Archetypes:
  "I experienced archetypes as vast, massive beings living on a different order of time... The closest I could come to seeing them, my mind imaged them as galaxies." (33:18, A)

• On the Diamond Soul:
  "When they fused, there was an extraordinary explosion in my heart... I was an individual, so the individual was there, but it was a soul individuality, not an egoic individuality." (40:21, A)

• On the Crisis of Humanity:
  "We are coming into a time of intense suffering, intense labor, but magnificent outcome. The birth of the future human..." (75:03, A)

• On Sharing and Integration:
  "Writing 'LSD in the Mind of the Universe' was the beginning of healing that wound of silence so that I could take the two... and I began to be whole within myself." (68:30, A)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Early life & shift from Catholicism: 03:21–05:00
• Discovery of reincarnation: 07:10–08:20
• Stan Grof & LSD’s philosophical significance: 10:52–12:15
• Rationale and method for LSD work: 12:15–13:37
• Encounter with collective suffering and bodhicitta: 16:35–19:37
• Insights into collective karma: 21:49–23:42
• Archetypal reality and beyond: 32:44–36:30
• Fusion of past lives and the diamond soul: 40:21–42:09
• Energetic effects & quantum pedagogy: 56:28–57:59
• Cautions about high-dose work and integration: 44:41–47:36
• Vision of humanity's crisis and hope for transformation: 73:08–76:14

Conclusion: Tone and Closing Reflections

The conversation is profound yet warmly human, rooted in both the mystical and the practical. Bache is candid about both the glories and difficulties of deep psychedelic exploration, continuously returning to the imperative of integration, humility, and service to the greater whole. Mishlove’s questions further clarify and contextualize, drawing out the nuances and commemorating the rarity and value of Bache’s journey. The message for listeners: we are participating in something far vaster than ourselves, and the next evolutionary leap—while daunting and catalyzed by suffering—may just lead to the birth of a new humanity.