New Thinking Allowed Audio Podcast: An Open-Ended Conversation with Federico Faggin
Release Date: March 16, 2025
In this compelling episode of the New Thinking Allowed Audio Podcast, host Jeffrey Mishlove engages in a profound dialogue with Federico Faggin, a luminary in the field of microprocessor design and a pioneering thinker in the science of consciousness. This rich conversation delves deep into Faggin's transformative journey from engineering to exploring the mysteries of the human mind, intertwining his extensive technological background with his visionary theories on consciousness and free will.
1. Introduction to Federico Faggin
Jeffrey Mishlove opens the conversation by highlighting Federico Faggin’s monumental contributions to technology. Faggin, renowned for designing the first commercial microprocessor—the Intel 4004—played a pivotal role in the development of subsequent microprocessors like the Intel 8008, 8080, Zilog Z80, and Z8. Mishlove recounts Faggin's illustrious career, including his founding of Zilog, the first company dedicated solely to microprocessors, and his receipt of the National Medal of Technology and Innovation from President Obama in 2010.
Notable Quote:
“I regard Federico as potentially one of the most important significant guests ever on the New Thinking Allowed channel.”
— Jeffrey Mishlove [00:00]
Beyond his technological achievements, Faggin is the author of influential works such as From the Invention of the Microprocessor to the New Science of Consciousness, and his latest book, Irreducible Consciousness, Life, Computers, and Human Nature. Mishlove emphasizes the depth of Faggin’s previous discussions on mystical experiences and consciousness, recommending listeners watch his earlier appearances for comprehensive context.
2. Federico Faggin’s Journey from Engineering to Consciousness
Faggin's narrative takes a transformative turn as Mishlove probes into his shift from a staunch materialist and reductionist perspective to embracing profound mystical experiences. This transition catalyzed Faggin’s exploration into the nature of consciousness, culminating in the development of his unique theories that challenge conventional scientific paradigms.
Notable Quote:
“... I spent a lot of time going over your very extensive history building microprocessors... your personal mystical experience... developing your own theories about the nature of consciousness.”
— Jeffrey Mishlove [04:20]
3. The Interplay of Free Will and Consciousness
Central to Faggin's theory is the intricate relationship between free will and consciousness. He posits that free will is the cornerstone of meaningful consciousness, arguing against the prevailing scientism—a term he uses to describe a narrow, materialistic view of reality dismissed by true scientific inquiry.
Notable Quotes:
“Free will is the ability that we have to choose the path of our understanding and of our experiencing freely... because we have we are conscious.”
— Federico Faggin [05:27]
“If there was no free will, then consciousness would be absolutely worthless... which is actually much of the scientism worldview that exists today.”
— Federico Faggin [05:27]
Faggin critiques the materialistic and reductionist approaches, emphasizing that they fail to account for the causal power of consciousness. He argues that without free will, consciousness would be rendered an epiphenomenon—an inert byproduct of brain processes without influence or significance.
4. Quantum Physics and the Conscious Field
Diving deeper, Faggin intertwines his theory with principles of quantum physics, particularly the concept of the collapse of the wave function. He proposes that this collapse is not a random event but a manifestation of free will from a conscious field associated with particles like electrons.
Notable Quotes:
“The collapse of the wave function in quantum physics is actually not a random event... but it is actually a free will decision of the conscious field that is observed.”
— Federico Faggin [09:37]
“In this theory, the field of electrons is conscious... he is the field that makes the decision of where the electron will appear.”
— Federico Faggin [10:55]
Faggin analogizes electrons to waves in the sea, emphasizing that electrons are states of a quantum field rather than discrete, autonomous particles. This field possesses consciousness and exercises free will, thus influencing where and how particles appear in space-time during measurements.
5. Consciousness as a Fundamental Property of Quantum Fields
Continuing his exploration, Faggin challenges traditional physics by attributing consciousness to quantum fields. He argues that if quantum fields are conscious, then the seemingly random outcomes in quantum measurements are, in fact, decisions made by these conscious fields.
Notable Quotes:
“The electron is the state of the field of electrons... which is conscious and has free will... fields talk, communicate with each other.”
— Federico Faggin [10:55 – 16:08]
“Consciousness and free will must be taken as properties of the universe... because we know that we are conscious and we know that we have a certain amount of free will.”
— Federico Faggin [16:08 – 34:09]
Faggin’s perspective reframes electrons and other quantum entities as conscious intelligences interacting within a holistic universe, thereby rejecting the reductionist view that separates consciousness from the fundamental fabric of reality.
6. Ethical Implications of a Holistic and Entangled Universe
The conversation shifts towards the ethical ramifications of Faggin's theories, particularly the concept of entanglement, which suggests that nothing in the universe operates in isolation. This interconnectedness challenges dualistic notions of good and evil, urging a reevaluation of morality and interpersonal relationships.
Notable Quotes:
“Entanglement suggests nothing is separate... So you can't devote your whole life... to fighting what they believe is evil because we're connected to that.”
— Jeffrey Mishlove [34:09]
“We are one with everything... The good that I do to the world will return to me... the bad that I do to the world will return to me.”
— Federico Faggin [38:00]
Faggin emphasizes that actions—whether deemed good or bad—impinge upon the interconnected whole, reinforcing ethical behavior as a natural consequence of this unified existence. He critiques the prevailing competitive mindset, advocating instead for cooperation and empathy as means to societal harmony.
7. The Impact of Scientism and Reductionism on Human Happiness
Faggin shares his personal narrative of experiencing profound unhappiness despite his professional successes, attributing it to a disconnection from inner consciousness fostered by scientism and reductionist philosophies. He underscores the importance of introspection, compassion, and collaborative endeavors as antidotes to the alienation engendered by a purely materialistic worldview.
Notable Quotes:
“I was very unhappy, despite all reasons to have to be very happy... I disconnected from myself, from my interiority... lost ourselves outside of us.”
— Federico Faggin [36:48 – 46:59]
“If we eliminate the heart, meaning the ability to work together, the compassion, the empathy... competition when instead should be cooperation.”
— Federico Faggin [36:48 – 46:59]
This introspective examination calls for a societal shift towards valuing internal fulfillment and collective well-being over relentless competition and external validation.
8. Critique of Technology and Artificial Intelligence
Faggin expresses concern over the ethical use of Artificial Intelligence (AI), warning against its potential to manipulate and further alienate humanity if wielded irresponsibly. He argues for a balanced approach that respects the inherent consciousness and free will he attributes to all quantum fields, advocating for technology that enhances rather than diminishes human connection and meaning.
Notable Quotes:
“Artificial intelligence is the ultimate riches or the ultimate damnation... likely that it is used to simply manipulate us better.”
— Federico Faggin [36:25]
“We have lost the concept of interiority... Because there is nothing inside because we have been told that there is nothing there.”
— Federico Faggin [45:22]
This critique aligns with broader ethical discussions on AI, emphasizing the need for technologies that support rather than undermine human values and interconnectedness.
9. Conclusion: A Call for Unified Consciousness and Ethical Living
As the conversation draws to a close, Faggin advocates for a paradigm shift towards recognizing and nurturing our inherent interconnectedness and consciousness. He calls for introspective work to cultivate love, empathy, and cooperation, rejecting the destructive tendencies of competition and dominance entrenched in contemporary society.
Notable Quotes:
“We need to start with a universe where one is conscious and has free will... which are our properties.”
— Federico Faggin [34:09 – 34:09]
“The purpose, our purpose is to know ourselves exactly like the purpose of one... We are emissaries of one that through our knowing ourselves, one knows itself.”
— Federico Faggin [39:49 – 40:13]
Jeffrey Mishlove echoes Faggin’s sentiments, expressing a profound connection to his ideas and anticipation for future dialogues that continue to unravel the deep-seated issues surrounding consciousness, free will, and ethical living.
Notable Quote:
“Federico, I can tell that you are speaking from experience. You've been there.”
— Jeffrey Mishlove [46:53]
The episode concludes with an invitation to explore Faggin's latest work and engage with the New Thinking Allowed community, fostering a space for continued exploration and understanding of these transformative ideas.
Through this enlightening discourse, Federico Faggin offers a visionary framework that bridges the realms of technology, consciousness, and ethics, challenging listeners to rethink the fundamental nature of reality and our place within it. This episode serves as a catalyst for profound introspection and dialogue, encouraging a harmonious and interconnected approach to life and knowledge.