Astral Travel with Robert Temple

Summary

Podcast Summary: Astral Travel with Robert Temple

Podcast: New Thinking Allowed Audio Podcast
Host: Jeffrey Mishlove
Guest: Robert Temple
Release Date: May 1, 2025
Main Theme:
Jeffrey Mishlove interviews author and researcher Robert Temple about his decades-long experiences with astral projection, encounters with non-physical entities, and what these experiences reveal about the structure of the afterlife and consciousness. The conversation blends personal narrative, cross-cultural insights, and reflections on the boundary between imagination and ontological reality.

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Episode Overview

Robert Temple discusses his unique nightly experiences with what he interprets as astral travel—initially as a passive observer linked to an interstellar “probe,” and later as an active “dreamwalker” traversing realms inhabited by the dead. He details the structure and inhabitants of the so-called “other world,” his interactions with guides and entities, and the philosophical implications of his experiences. The conversation delves into distinctions between fantasy and genuine transcendental experience, and links ancient traditions with modern parapsychological research.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Robert Temple’s Early Astral Experiences

• Galactic Probe Live Stream ([03:56]–[10:12])

  • For a decade, Temple found himself nightly “plugged into” a consciousness stream from an automated probe searching for moons and planets throughout the galaxy.

    “Every night I would be plugged into like a sort of live stream of an exploring satellite...somebody rather hooked me onto its live stream.” (A, [03:56])

  • He observed countless crystalline moons, many so distinctly detailed over thousands of nights that he doubts it could be fantasy alone.

    “How could I invent 10 years worth of...20, 30 moons a night and multiply that by 10 years?...That’s too many moons to invent.” (A, [07:45])

• Speculation on Plasma Entities ([05:30]–[07:31])

  • Temple and Mishlove discuss the possibility that these probes are conscious plasma entities, tying in Temple’s earlier research on plasma physics and consciousness.

2. Transition to Dreamwalker and Afterlife Realms

• Becoming a Dreamwalker ([10:12]–[29:40])

  • Approximately 30 years ago, the experiences shifted to nightly visits to the “other world,” encountering tens of new personalities each night, totaling over 250,000.

    “If I’m doing this by my own creative fantasy I must be the greatest fantasist in the history of the universe...I don’t think it’s possible. So by Occam’s razor, it must be true that they really exist.” (A, [10:12])

  • Temple identifies as a “dreamwalker”:

    “I must rush to say that I’m by no means the only dreamwalker...Many people do what I’m about to describe. It’s just that they have amnesia when they wake up.” (A, [10:12])

• Guides in the Other World ([14:00]–[18:00])

  • A central “woman guide,” always in a gray gown with an unseen face, insists that Temple share his observations with the earthly public.

    “She’s saying, you have to tell people on Earth, the public, these things that I’m showing you. That’s why I’m showing them to you.” (A, [12:45])

  • Guardian entities, not to be called “angels,” aid the process:

    “My Guardian has communicated with me on her orders. She’s higher than him...they don’t like being called guardian angels.” (A, [18:00])

• Structure of the Afterlife ([21:00]–[29:40])

  • The “other world” is divided into three: the Pit (hell), the Light Regions (heaven), and the Gray Regions (a vast middle, analogous to purgatory), with most deceased residing in the gray regions.

    “It’s like what Julius Caesar said about Gaul...all Gaul is divided into three parts. The same is true of the other world.” (A, [21:00])

3. Detailed Descriptions of the Afterlife Regions

• Gray Regions: Levels and Inhabitants ([29:40]–[44:37])

  • Millions of hierarchical levels, constructed as if inside a hollow, artificial sphere.

    “I realized that this whole thing is inside a hollow sphere...it’s been constructed. This is not natural.” (A, [37:00])

  • The lowest levels are bleak:

    “I saw these sort of giant slugs crawling along...these are the lowest level of people that we have in the middle region. They’re so bad that they can’t even take on human form.” (A, [32:30])

  • The upper levels are pleasant; residents can shape their surroundings through imagination—creating homes, landscapes, or even golf courses.

• No Physical Sensuality, but Retained Gender and Scent ([39:00], [51:15])

  • Sexual anatomy or reproduction are absent, yet gender distinctions persist and matter profoundly.

    “Gender transcends sexual form that we have here on Earth.”

  • Scent, especially aromas like incense or food, uniquely carries across realms.

    “The only physical sense that carries over is scent. You can detect aromas in the other world. And the ancient shamans came to realize this...” (A, [52:00])

4. Behavior of the Dead and the Nature of Encounters

• Dreamwalkers as Entertainment ([44:44]–[51:15])

  • The dead, recognizing dreamwalkers by their nakedness (in contrast to clothed denizens), taunt and scare newcomers, often staging elaborate “haunted house” scenarios akin to movies.

    “One of their favorite things, especially the younger ones, is to pretend to be evil demons...They think that’s hilarious.” (A, [44:44])

• Dream Construction and Boredom ([44:44]–[49:19])

  • Activities are ultimately fruitless, leading to boredom and eventual hibernation or “amber” suspension until reincarnation.

    “They basically hibernate until it’s time for their next incarnation.” (A, [41:40])

5. Affirmations of Ancient Knowledge

• Alignment with Historical Esoteric Traditions ([41:00], [54:30])
  • Much of what Temple found in the “other world” matches ancient religious ideas (Tibetan Bardo, incense for the gods, afterlife structures).

    “Some of the things that I read were so, so fantastic that even I...was dismissing these things as just complete childish fantasy...So much of it turns out not to be at all.” (A, [41:00])

6. Plasma Beings and Encounters in the Waking State

• Encounters on Airplanes and with Plasma Entities ([63:16]–[73:08])

  • Temple describes meeting a tall, luminous plasma entity while asleep on an airplane, communicating telepathically, interested in humans who “have light.”

    “She bent over...kissed the top of my head and woke me up...She said, I go into the planes and study humans...most of them are all dark...you and your wife are the only ones who have light.” (A, [66:23])

  • The entity explains her people avoid Earth’s surface due to “lizards,” symbolic of growing evil, forcing good beings to higher atmospheric levels.

    “We can’t go down there because of the lizards. It was her language. She said, and the lizards get worse all the time.” (A, [69:40])

• Plasma/Automaton Entities ([73:08]–[79:56])

  • Temple details an encounter with a colossal, spinning plasma cylinder entity named “Orthar,” with an acronymic English name, visible to both him and a witness.

    “He said, Orthar. My name is Orthar. You mean O R T H A R. Yes...That stands for orbital reconnaissance, terrestrial hugging, automated rover, doesn’t it? Yes.” (A, [73:45])

7. Language and Communication in the Other World

• Encounters with Non-English Speakers ([80:06])
  • Most visits are in English-speaking areas, but in the “disembodied” state, Temple can speak fluent German, suggesting mental translation is possible.

8. Philosophical Considerations: Fantasy or Reality?

• Mishlove repeatedly raises the skepticism that these experiences may originate from imagination or creativity, but Temple’s shared visions with others (as in the plasma cylinder witnessed by his coworker) suggest possible objectivity.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Veracity of Experiences:

  “If I’m doing this by my own creative fantasy I must be the greatest fantasist in the history of the universe...So by Occam’s razor, it must be true that they really exist.” (Robert Temple, [10:12])

• On the Smell Crossing Over:

  “The only physical sense that carries over is scent...If you burn mountains of frankincense, it can be smelt by non physical beings.” (Robert Temple, [52:00])

• On Ancient Traditions Being Accurate:

  “Some of the things that I read were so...fantastic...so much of it turns out not to be at all [fantasy]—accurate to the most astonishing and almost terrifying degree.” (Robert Temple, [41:00])

• On Guides and Their Hierarchy:

  “My Guardian...got really upset by being called an angel. He said, none of us are angels. Guardian angel is wrong. Angels are very high and we would never dare to call ourselves angels.” (Robert Temple, [18:00])

• On the Boredom of the Dead:

  “All these dead people in the middle regions are bored stiff. There’s nothing to do. You can’t accomplish anything.” (Robert Temple, [44:44])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic / Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:56-07:31 | Astral travel via galactic probe; crystalline moons and plasma entities | | 10:12-14:00 | Dreamwalking and the nightly afterlife encounters | | 14:00-18:00 | Description of guides, the woman in gray, and guardian entities | | 21:00-29:40 | Structure of the afterlife: Pit, Gray Regions, Light Regions | | 29:40-44:37 | Detailed gray regions; levels, inhabitants, and artificial construction | | 44:44-49:19 | Dead people’s boredom; interactions with dreamwalkers | | 51:15-54:30 | Aroma, incense, and food in the afterlife | | 63:16-73:08 | Encounters with plasma beings (airplane and Orthar the cylinder) | | 80:06-80:38 | Language skills in the afterlife: speaking German fluently as a disembodied mind |

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Tone and Language

The discussion is candid, speculative, and tinged with a sense of humor and humility. Temple oscillates between skeptical reflection and direct reporting of his experiences, while Mishlove frames questions with a blend of scientific interest and open-mindedness. Both acknowledge the difficulty in separating fantasy from alternate realities, and the limits of current vocabulary to fully describe such experiences.

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides a captivating, at times whimsical, but deeply thought-provoking exploration of the afterlife and non-physical realities as experienced by Robert Temple. Both guest and host invite listeners to question the boundaries between imagination, ancient wisdom, and possible ontological truths of consciousness beyond the body. Whether approached from a psychological, spiritual, or scientific lens, the conversation remains accessible, richly detailed, and infused with curiosity.

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“You don’t mind talking to somebody who’s out of his mind. You have a very wide tolerance.”
— Robert Temple ([81:00])

“Well, you’re out of your mind in the very best way.”
— Jeffrey Mishlove ([81:10])

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For more episodes and resources:
Visit newthinkingallowed.org

Transcript

[A]

Book three in the new thinking allowed dialogue series is UFOs and UAP are we really Alone? Now available on Amazon, New Thinking Allowed.

[B]

Is presented by the California Institute for Human Science, a fully accredited university offering distant learning graduate degrees that focus on mind, body and spirit. The topics that we cover here. We are particularly excited to announce new degrees emphasizing parapsychology and the paranormal. Visit their [e-mail]. you can now download a free PDF copy of issue number eight of the new Thinking Allowed magazine or order a beautiful printed copy. Go to newthinkingallowed.org.

[A]

Thinking allowed.

[B]

Conversations on the Leading Edge of Knowledge and Discovery with psychologist Jeffrey Mishlove. Hello and welcome. I'm Jeffrey Mishlove. Today we are going to explore the subject of astral projection. My guest is one of my favorite new friends, Robert Temple. He is author of A New Science of Heaven how the Science of Plasma Physics is Shedding Light on Spiritual Experience. Robert was a surprise guest recently in a livestream event we did about this book. If you haven't watched it, I'm going to link to it in the upper right hand corner of your screen. If you have a computer that can capture that link, I think you'll enjoy that video quite a bit. Robert has also written many other books including Egyptian dawn, the Sphinx Mystery, the Genius of China, Oracles of the Dead, the Crystal sun and the Serious Mystery, which was a bestseller, as well as open to suggestions the Uses and Abuses of Hypnosis. In addition, Robert was a very close associate of my mentor, Arthur M. Young. In fact, he knew Arthur Young well before I ever even met the man. So we have that in common. Robert lives in England and now I'll switch over to the Internet video. Welcome Robert. It is a pleasure to be with you once again.

[A]

Well, it's a great pleasure to see you again, Jeffrey. We're very much on the same bandwidth.

[B]

I feel that way. Although we only met each other a few weeks ago. I feel like I've known you for a very long time.

[A]

I know. I feel the same. Well, maybe we knew each other before. And then of course, we were both so closely associated with Arthur Young for years and knew of each other. We sort of finally have met and slotted in as if, as you say, as if we'd always known each other.

[B]

Well, I'm particularly interested today in just a couple of sentences you mentioned briefly in our last conversation online in which you let me know that you have had the gift of astral projection and I happen to think it's a wonderful gift and Eager to explore it with you further.

[A]

Before I started this, it was about 30 years ago, but before that I was plugged into something very strange. Every night I would be plugged into like a sort of live stream of an exploring satellite going through the galaxy looking for solid bodies like planets and moons. And that went on for many, many, many years that it sort of lulled me to sleep. I saw quite a lot of beautiful bodies in space. The one I remember most vividly was completely made what appeared to be ruby crystals, sparkling red all over. They varied considerably. Each one was different. A lot of them were dark and boring, of course, but this was a robotic automatic probe that was going through the galaxy and somebody rather hooked me onto its live stream. I mean, I didn't actually learn anything from this, but it kind of lulled me into sleep. And I guess it was informative because I saw more moons than I needed to. I mean, I wouldn't exactly say if you've seen one moon, you've seen them all, because they're all different, obviously. But you know, I got mooned out, frankly. I mean, years of moons.

[B]

So this is prior to actual astral projection. Although it sounds, you could call it astral projection, you're out in space. But if it was some sort of a satellite that you got plugged into, it would suggest to me that the satellite was some sort of plasma entity. It was conscious that you could plug into it in a dreamlike state.

[A]

Probably, yes. Now that we know what we know about plasma, which I didn't then, I think you're right. It must have been a robotic plasma probe, because there are many, many, many plasma robots of all kinds of descriptions.

[B]

And one of the points we made when you were so generous as to surprise me and join us on our livestream event was that plasma entities could be conscious.

[A]

That's right. And it's been proved in the laboratory, so it's not speculation. Even very small plasmoids created in the lab, and those have got to be very small, showed signs of emergent self organizing properties and they started becoming complicated entirely spontaneously. And then this progressed so far that they showed behavior which could only be described as intelligent. I mean, we can qualify that by saying AI kind of intelligence. I mean, I don't know whether you could call it creative intelligence or initiatory intelligence. I mean, what is intelligence and how many levels of it are there? But it was definitely intelligent behavior. And that was, I think, the first person to prove it was Professor Tsitovich in Russia, because the Russians have been very Interested in plasma for a lot longer than those of us who are not in Russia.

[B]

So these events that you had sort of traveling through the galaxy and apparently attached to a probe that's looking for moons and planets. This went on for a few years, and then things changed.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, I would think that maybe I was watching moons for about 10 years. I just. It didn't strike me as odd, you know, I'd go to sleep and I'd be plugged into this galactic probe. I suppose the motive must have been to detect minerals or something. And it was completely silent, you know, there was no sound attached to this. It was just silently doing its thing. And it must have been sampling remotely the constituents of all these moons and so on. But I only saw the visual feed, you see, and it was just. There were so many. But they're all small, you know, none of them were anything that had an atmosphere or anything like that. And very few of them had water. These are pretty much rocky moons, many crystalline ones. You know, there was a big emphasis on huge, mega crystals. Crystalline moons that could be very beautiful. And a lot were very boring. And some of them were black and dark and, I mean, they come in all shapes and sizes, mostly small. But I guess you could call some of them asteroids. But one curious thing about them is I never saw any that looked like an asteroid in our system, you know, that we see these photographs of these dust balls. None of them were dust. They were all solid. And the emphasis is on crystals. Definitely crystals. Is it amazing how many crystalline moons there seem to be? If this is real and not some weird fantasy. But how can you watch 10 years worth of moons and keep inventing new ones? You know, there's a limit to my powers of fantasy. How could I invent 10 years worth of. I mean, I might see 20, 30 moons a night and multiply that by 10 years. I mean, that's too many moons to invent.

[B]

I think you spent some 10 years roaming through space, it would seem, attached to some sort of probe moving through the galaxy looking for solid objects. And then at some point, you developed a different form of astral projection.

[A]

Yes, it's been going on for about 30 years. And none of this is by my wish or by my intention. This all happens on its own to me. And so then it gets really, really interesting and complicated. And I have to preface what I'm about to say as my subjective experience. It could all be wrong. Nobody needs to believe me, and I don't care if they believe me or not. I'm just Telling my experience now, for 30 years, I've been visiting the other world, which is full of dead people. And I usually meet 20, 30 people each time. And they're all completely different personalities. And if you add this up, I think it comes to way over 100,000 individuals I have met in 30 years. And that's on the conservative figures estimated at only meeting 10 per night. In fact, it's way over a quarter of a million, actually, all of them different people. Now, if I'm doing this by my own creative fantasy I must be the greatest fantasy in the history of the universe. Because who can create 250,000 different personalities in 30 years when they're asleep? It's not as if they're all the same. They're all different. And I just. I mean, anybody who wants to say I'm a fantasist is really praising me because they're claiming that I have the most fantastic, inventive power of anyone who's ever lived. How can anybody create 250,000 different people all with their own personalities and strange activities and thoughts and so on? I don't think it's possible. So by Occam's razor, it must be true that they really exist. I can't invent that many people. So this is. But it's how many I've met, you see? Well, okay, how does it happen? So this is what happens. Tends to be. Well, in fact, I don't even have to be in deep sleep sometimes. It starts the minute I go to sleep, as if they're waiting for me. So I become what's called a dream walker. Now, I must rush to say that I'm by no means the only dreamwalker. Many, many, many people do what I'm about to describe. It's just that they have amnesia when they wake up and they don't remember any of it. Or they have vague memories, but they haven't put the pieces together because I meet other dreamwalkers in the other world. And so the dead people. And it's kind of a rude way of referring to them, but it's kind of simple. The dead people, they are. They always know it instantly when they see a dreamwalker. And as I move into this sphere as I sort of pass through a kind of intermediate stage which is dark and all the dreamwalkers are pale, ghostly figures entering, entering the other world. I see them. You know, there's some distance, as if we're all going along in a kind of line together but separated quite far. I mean, you can't talk to them, but you can see them. And so you know that thousands of people are doing this with you. Really? Many, many, many, many people do this. They just don't know that they do it when they wake up. They don't have any memory, or if they do, it's vague and confused, and they think it's just a dream. But the trouble is, for me, it happens every night. And it's been happening every night for 30 years or so. And a lot of it's forcibly impressed upon me by a guide. And I'll describe her in a moment, who shows me important things and says to me in no uncertain terms, bossing me around a bit. She's a woman, so of course she's telling me what to do. And she's saying, you have to tell people on Earth, the public, these things that I'm showing you. That's why I'm showing them to you. Well, I have no natural inclination to want to do that because you start talking like that and everybody laughs at you. And then they think you're crazy and they dismiss you as some kind of raving loony. And you can lose friends that way. But still, she's most insistent that I have to tell the public about what she's shown me, which is quite amazing things, because she says that people on Earth need to know, first of all, that they cannot die, that they will go on because everything's based on reincarnation, you see. There's no such thing as extinction at death. That's a total Earth fantasy. First of all, they need to know that they will continue to exist. And therefore, if they know that and the things that go on in what you can call the afterlife, they might change their behavior accordingly. And there are good reasons to do so. And I'll get into that. First, let me describe her. She's always dressed in a long gray gown. She has a slender figure. She looks like she's about 30, something like that, in terms of her bodily appearance. And she has a very good figure of an attractive young woman, but completely plainly dressed. Nothing fancy at all, very plain. But I'm never allowed to see her face. It's. It's nothing. Doubt you know how you have blobs on television when you see somebody being arrested? That kind of thing. It's that in principle, except you don't see any blob. It's a complete vacuum where her face is. I'm never permitted to see her face. And she mostly stands behind my right shoulder when she's taking me around and guiding me and she speaks to me telepathically, of course, a lot. And I have seen her move away from me and interact with other entities. So that's how I know what she looks like. But I never see the face. Never. And who knows the reason for that. But it may be that I might recognize her and that would not be good. Or it might mean that her face is unseeable because she's such a high entity that you couldn't tolerate the sight of her face. You know, that's another possibility. So that's her. I don't know her name, but she has a particular interest in me. She's not the same as my Guardian, by the way, Guardians don't like being called guardian angels. My Guardian has communicated with me on her orders. She's higher than him. He's a chapter, not a gal. And he's very proud of being in the Guardian service. It's like being in the Secret Service guarding the President, except they guard everybody. But he's absolutely freaked out when I said guardian angel. He says, we are not angels. Not angels, not angels. He got really upset by being called an angel. He said, none of us are angels. Guardian angel is wrong. He said the angels are very high and we would never dare to call ourselves angels. He got really, really upset about that. So I said, okay, okay, you're just a Guardian. Yes, we are Guardians. And he's damn good too. He saved my life so many times he wouldn't believe it. And. But he's very funny. I do know his name, but I won't say it. And he, you see, he's an automated entity, but incredibly highly intelligent and he has a personality. But he's been programmed, as all the Guardians have been, not to have emotions about the people that they're guarding because they're not permitted to feel sympathy or anything. He does have dislikes of people. He named one person that he had known before I came along, who is a well known public personality, long deceased, a woman. And he said, I like her very much. So they kind of like people, but they're not allowed to show it. And he said he didn't really like me very much. You see, they don't have any of the niceties or politeness because they don't have those kind of interactions. And since he'd been told he had to speak to me, he admitted he didn't really like me very much. And I mean, I wouldn't say he disliked me, but he doesn't really like me. And I said, what are you going to do, because, you know, the person you're guarding dies and then you onto the next client or subject said, what are you going to do when I die? And then you go on to the next person. Oh, I'll be very glad, he said, because then I'll go on to something new and I might get a promotion. They've been programmed to want promotions. He's very. I mean, he's very transparently honest because he doesn't know how to be dishonest. And so it's fascinating interacting with him, although I try not to because, you know, I feel that I would be, you know, disrupting natural process if I tried to get too friendly with my guardian. You know, he knows I have a high opinion of him, even if he doesn't. For me, that's hilarious, really. But, you know, he said all these things and so hilarious, you'd be so amazed if you knew who he really liked. This woman who was well known, but I better not mention names. Anyway, so he is very much subsidiary to the woman who is not a guardian. She's a higher entity. I have no idea what kind of higher entity, but she's high in some way and she has a universal past. I mean, she can go anywhere in the. In the other world because there are different many sections of the other world and she can go anywhere. So that must mean she's pretty high up. And anyway, she's chosen me to tell the public some of the things that she's shown me, which I will tell you as we go along. But I thought it best to explain who she is. And everything is telepathic. You know, I don't have visual hallucinations through the optic nerve or auditory hallucinations through my ears. Everything is telepathic. All the speech is telepathic and everything's purely at the mental level. I don't hear voices. I hear things telepathically. Only people who hear voices through their ears have a real problem because that means that they're mentally ill, apparently. And I have never had that experience, fortunately. So now here's what happens. But first I should describe that the other world, we'll call it that. It's like what Julius Caesar said about Gaul in his book about the Civil wars, the Gallic wars, omnia gallia intres partes, deweesa esther, which means all gall is divided into three parts. And the same is true of the other world. So it's like there's the equivalent of hell, which they call the pit. And then at the opposite extreme, there's the equivalent of heaven or the light regions. And then in the middle, which is where 85 to 90% of humans go when they die, is the. They call it the gray regions because it's neither heaven nor hell. In other words, most people aren't irredeemably evil to go to hell, and most people are not sublimely angelic to go to heaven, you see? So most people are in the middle. This is a little bit similar to the Roman Catholic concept of purgatory, but it's not really purgatory in the Catholic understanding of it. But at least they know that there's a middle region, which is more than most religions do, although the Buddhists, especially Tibetan Buddhists, call it the Bardo, and they understand it very well. So my visits are always to the middle regions. You can't visit the Pit or Hell because you can never get out again. It's a place of permanent confinement. And then only the irredeemably evil go there. And there's a tremendous sadness on the part of the higher entities when even one person has to go there because it means they've lost somebody. It's the whole thing about the hundred sheep and the 99 might be good, but I'll go. Jesus said that he would save the one, because to save a sinner is better than to have one sinner and to have 99 good people, because the whole system is basically set up for the purpose of redemption. Everything's based on the concept of redemption, because they don't want a single soul to be lost. They get really, really, really upset when anybody has to go to the pit, because that means they've failed. In order to succeed in their purpose, they have to save everybody if they can. And this is a real imperative. Now, I've been taken on a complete tour from top to bottom of the gray regions, this middle region, by my woman. And at the bottom, there are such horrible, wicked people you couldn't imagine. But they're not what's considered irredeemably evil. They might have a slight spark, like if they. It's like the mafia bosses who do terrible things. They love their families and do anything for their children, and they love their children. Well, that's love, you see? And so they're not irredeemably evil, and they're not going to the pit because they do love somebody. The only ones who go are people who don't love anybody. And so you get some really, really bad eggs down in the bottom of the. Of the middle regions. Well, in fact, I'll tell you the details, it's really shocking. In fact, it's really disgusting. I said to my woman, because we can converse with each other, you see. It's not just her speaking to me. I said, I would like to see the bottom level, because there's over a million levels. Because you see there's hundreds of millions or billions of dead people there. And they're all at all these different levels which go on forever. And I said, I want to see the bottom of it. I want to see the base, the basement, the absolute bottom level of the gray regions. And it gets darker the lower down you go, you see, because all the light's coming from above. And it gets darker and darker the lower you go. And so she was very happy to take me there because I think she thought, this is good, that I'll tell people they do need to know this. Otherwise I wouldn't have been permitted, you see. In other words, I was asking the right question that time. So she took me down there. I mean, you just, you know, you think, and then you're there. There's no traveling involved. And it was almost completely dark. Just the slightest little glimmer enough for you to sort of make out some things. And I saw these sort of giant slugs crawling along, inching along, inching along, just going ahead in sort of dirty puddles as if they were in a gutter kind of thing. And they were about this long, maybe 3ft long. Fat and slow. Inching along, inching along, inching along. And she said, these are the lowest level of people that we have in the middle region. They're so bad that they can't even take on human form, that they are just slugs creeping along in the dark, going nowhere and doing nothing. And they're just basically animated blobs. But they're not irredeemably evil. They might be the tiniest of sparks in some of them, but if it's the tiniest spark, we still try to save them. And they will get reincarnated, and they'll be thugs and murderers again, just in case they get a little bit better. And, of course, the rest of us have to put up with these people coming back. But that's the system. And so I looked around and I said, you know, this, like, it's. This is an artificial construction here. I mean, what I'm seeing is like a huge concrete casting. It's. It's. This is. This whole middle region is. It's constructed. It's not just floating around in space. The bottom of it is a solid concrete Basement. I could hardly believe my eyes because I thought this whole thing is built. So now I'll take you up to the top level of the middle region. It's completely covered by a vast dome from which light is uniformly being emitted. And there's no day or night, it's constant now. You can't see the sky. There's no sun, there's no moon, there are no stars. It's just this dome emanating light downwards. And there's no weather, no clouds, no rain. There's nothing like that. It just comes down and this light goes down and it gets darker and darker as it goes down a million levels. And I realized that this whole thing is inside a hollow sphere. So it's like a moon or a planet that's hollow and everybody's in there. So it's been constructed. This is not natural. It's been constructed. And this raises all kinds of questions, you know, by whom? When I mean, is this whole thing like we're all on a stage show, is this. So in other words, is life really life or is it an enactment? You know, I have a lot of trouble thinking about this. What does it really signify? And you see the people in the middle region are. They're not thoroughly alert. They're semi, semi asleep. They're kind of slumberous, sort of half awake, as it were. They're not really very sharp and they're not thinking straight. They're just being. And kind of in an in between slightly twilight world. That's why it's called the gray regions, because it is kind of twilight world. And they're just waiting. And they have various activities which I'll describe at the different levels. And they do quite a lot of things, but they can't actually accomplish anything. They can't accomplish anything. And you see, and there's no concept of sexual reproduction in the other world, so there are no genitalia on dead people. And although. So their projections are from their imagination. It's like everything comes out of imagination. Power of imagination. And individuals can project images of themselves which they themselves create through their imagination. And they generally tend to look like they're about 30. And the women, even though they don't have the physical anatomy of a woman, still have very feminine forms with busts, even though the breasts are non functional. In other words, they would not be used to produce milk for babies. But they keep the traditional feminine form out of habit or for aesthetic reasons or whatever. And gender is incredibly important. There are very, very sharp distinctions between male and female. Gender in the other world, even with the higher entities. And it gets even more pronounced with the higher entities. And there's no underlying physical anatomy or sexual aspect to any of this, which is interesting because it shows that gender transcends sexual form that we have here on Earth. And, you know, all kinds of different sexual variations occur here. But there's only two genders with dead people and with higher entities. And they're masculine and feminine. And it's a sort of yin and yang type thing, which seems to be a universal principle. And so, you know, the angels, they're very, very. Angels are tricky characters. I've only ever interacted with one. He was very nice. But the thing is they're very powerful and everybody's pretty scared of them. And. And they are not anything remotely like us. They're totally non human in the way they think and the way they feel. I mean, they're full of compassion and all of that, but they're very, very practical and they never let sentimentality get the better of them. And they're very aloof in a way that they don't necessarily intend, but they just are. And everybody avoids them because you don't want to get mixed up with an angel because they're so weird. And it's easier to just avoid them, you know, because you don't really know how they're thinking. We're not really qualified to deal with angels, frankly. It's as simple as that. Because there are different species, completely different species, and nothing like us. Even though they may look like us or project that kind of look of being human. They may even project wings. I don't know. I've never seen wings on anybody. But I meant. I think they're entirely symbolic. But the. I have had a contact with one angel, but I was not permitted to see him. We spoke to one another. That's a very interesting and long story. It's nothing to do with astral travel. And so these are some of the fundamentals. Now, the higher regions, which we could call heaven, although that's a very inadequate term, are the regions of light are somewhere you can't just go as a tourist, you know, that's not permitted. And so I haven't been taken on a tour of Heaven. I've been forced to go on tours of the middle region every night for 30 years. And I've been told specifically it's because I have to learn about it and become intimately familiar with its denizens, the people who are there, of the different levels. I have to get to know them and know what they're like and what it's like. Now when I said that, they get a bit groggy after about maybe 100 years of Earth time, that kind of period or sometimes earlier, they basically go into a kind of hibernation because they realize they're not achieving anything and they've got pretty bored and it's easier just to go to sleep. And so they basically hibernate until it's time for their next incarnation. And this brings us to a very strange thing involving a television series. Some things come out in film and television which are higher knowledge that's being fed to the public as fiction. And this was the case with a very interesting science fiction television series called Fringe. There were several things about Fringe that were true presented as fiction. But the one that struck me the most is that in this series they have people going into Amber, as it was called, where they become immobilized and they hibernate and they're surrounded by this solidified stuff that crystallizes and they're basically frozen. It's like being bees in amber going into ember, they call it. And that was in the series, but I've seen it in the other world and it really happens. And I had a very bad and disturbing experience that brought this home to me. Because, you know, you mustn't mess with experimenting or wanting too much to find out things out of idle curiosity. You have to have a reason to want to know, otherwise you get into trouble. And a good reason. And I'm a 17th century historian, among other things, and I've written a whole three volume work of 750,000 words on the trial and execution of King Charles I. In fact, I'm a direct descendant, as it happens, and I didn't know this at first, of one of the people who signed his death warrant. How much coincidence is there in that? And so I'm particularly interested in the mid 17th century period. And some of these guys were of particular interest because they're very, very interesting people. And so I decided to try to contact one of them. Big mistake. Oh, no, don't do that. I mean, nothing happened to me that was bad, but what happened was I was sort of raping the system. So this guy suddenly woke up and he's surrounded by like ice. And I pressed the trigger and forced him to awaken. And he'd been asleep for at least 250 years, frozen in this hibernation. And what I could see. I was allowed to witness this process, if only to teach me not to do this again. The stuff he was frozen in kind of started cracking up. Like ice cracks up when you smash it on a frozen lake top or something. It started shattering, as it were, and coming off in chunks around him. And his head emerged and I saw him waking up and opening his eyes and wondering where he was and what's going on and coming out of a kind of stupor. And I got really worried that I'd basically gone against the rules. Not intentionally, but, you know, one should not interrupt the normal process with this guy. So I immediately stepped away from that and I presume he went back to sleep. I hope he did, because it was very disturbing for him and confusing. I didn't particularly hurt him or anything, but one should not interfere with these things. And anyway, I learned my lesson. But I did see the shattering of this ice. Like stuff where they go into amber, just like in the series, science fiction series. So I don't know where the writers of those scripts got this from. But what I have discovered is that many of the strange things I've seen and experienced on these astral travels, and it is what the theosophists call the astral realm. Of course, the middle regions, they. A lot of these things turn out to be things that ancient peoples knew very well and which I had dismissed when reading ancient philosophy, mythology and all that sort of thing. A lot of stuff which I thought was nonsense, I now realize is completely accurate. Completely accurate to the most astonishing and almost terrifying degree. And what this suggests to me, I think almost proves to me, is that in antiquity people relied so much on seers and shamans who went into trances and went on night journeys, like the kind of thing I'm doing. But they did it by trying to initiate it for themselves. Who knows, maybe with psychedelics or whatever means they use that in fact, the things I'm telling you about were well known for tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of years by the shamans of early humans, even in the cave dwelling times, certainly in all the historically recorded religions. I've been really shocked at how precisely accurate. Some of the weird things that religions have related are. Completely accurate. Accurate to the most astonishing degree. And it's been quite a humbling experience because, you know, I'm not somebody who goes around dismissing things. But some of the things that I read were so, so fantastic that even I, with an open mind at what I think I was an open mind, was dismissing these things as just complete childish fantasy and nonsense. And so much of it turns out not to be at All. So it's been, as I say, very humbling because it shows me that being excessively rational. And I am a very skeptical person. I may not sound like it, but I am. I've had to realize that, you know, one shouldn't really utterly dismiss anything because some of the things I've seen are so fantastic that, I mean, I've just had to drop opposition in principle to weird things because you never know, one of them might unexpectedly, really unexpectedly turn out to be true. It's really, really a learning curve. I can tell you. I've almost learned more from all these weird experiences than I have from reading all my books. I have over 50,000 books, by the way.

[B]

Well, can you give an example of an experience that seemed improbable but turned out to be true?

[A]

All these dead people in the middle regions are bored stiff. There's nothing to do. You can't accomplish anything. You can't leave your region that you're in. You're basically relegated to your region. And you can't. You can't go up. You might be able to go down, by the way. You go automatically. It's all automatic. You don't come before a tribunal. In 99% of the cases, you have a personal frequency. It's like having your own QR code that identifies you and it's read out when you die. And you go automatically to the level that has that frequency. In other words, your destination is determined by your code. But you can raise your frequency. If you're a good person, you get a higher and higher frequency. You can do that during your Earth life just by being a good person. And then every time you raise your frequency, you're going to end up when you die going to a higher level than you would have done. But the process of going to your level is automatic. It's all automated, the whole system, because there's not enough personnel. I mean, they do have staff, but there's not enough personnel to deal with such a gigantic population as the world has, has to be automated. But there are always exceptions in special cases and people who need treatment and counseling for their mental illness. And a lot of that goes on. But I'll come back to the main thing I was about to say, which is because they're so bored, they recognize the dreamwalkers coming. Because you see everybody in the other world is clothed in some way, but all the dreamwalkers are naked. I discovered this one night because I didn't know. How is it that everybody knows I'm not a native coming in. You see, I'm walking around. How do they all know I'm a dream walker? And I just looked down or somebody pushed my head down or something. And I looked down and thought, I've got nothing on, no underwear, it's all showing. And you know, they just. You see somebody naked in the other world that's a dreamwalker because there's no resident who is. So that's how they spot us. So now, okay. But, you know, they're not interested in our physical appearance because it has no relevance to them anymore. And what they do is to keep themselves from going mad with boredom is they taunt and tease us. And one of their favorite things, especially the younger ones, is to pretend to be evil demons. They're not evil demons, but they impersonate them and they make scary noises and they threaten you and they said they're going to kill you. And they come with knives up to your throat and do all of that. Of course they can't harm you, but they try to scare you to death. And they think that's hilarious. And they all burst out with laughter. And they have fun with us. You know, we're like fresh meat for them. You know, they're teasing and taunting us. And then they have the most fantastically complicated scenarios. They'll take you through a haunted house. They do all of that. A lot of the stuff that you see in movies you can go through with these people because of course they've seen those movies too. And so they're projecting them for. For you because they died during the period since movies were invented. And so they know what people are supposed to be scared of in horror movies and so on, slasher films and all that. So they replicate all that. So a lot of people come back from what they call a nightmare. They've been attacked by demons and they think it's a nightmare to nod. They've been to the middle regions of the other world where the dead people are impersonating demons in order to have fun and tease them. And this happens all the time? All the time. It's very, very, very, very popular and pretty much standard behavior. Scare the.

[B]

Even at the higher levels of the middle world.

[A]

Oh, not at the very higher levels. They don't behave like that. They're much better behaved. Yeah, it's mostly the middle level of the middle regions. The higher levels are so lovely and pleasant that although you can't do anything productive, you have such a great time that those people believe they're in heaven. They really do. I remember meeting two Tweedy elderly ladies because they specifically wanted to be dressed in their traditional tweedy outfits that they'd always worn because they were golfers, you see, and they didn't wish to look to be 30. They wanted to look their proper selves. So they were alike. And they're 60s. You can do that if you want. If you don't want to tart yourself up, you can look old like you did when you were alive on earth. Anyway, I met these two, and it was a very, very lovely mowed grass, green hillside with some trees. And down below were this huge golf course which they'd created by the power of their imagination. The higher level you are, you can create a house easily. Some people create desert islands for themselves that you can live your fantasies. And so they were passionate golfers when they were on Earth. And so they were having such tremendous fun because they had the golf clubs. And of course, these are imagined golf clubs, but that didn't make them any less real to them. And they had the imagined golf balls and they had the imagined course, and they were literally playing golf. They really were. And the sun seemed to be shining brightly. Of course, it wasn't the sun, it was the dome. But, you know, they sort of had got used to not acknowledging it to be just a dome. And they were just thrilled because all they wanted to do on Earth was go out and play golf in their tweeds and be those kind of people. And they were able to do it the whole time, and they never got tired of it, because, you see, you have limitless energy when you're dead because you don't get tired anymore. And so they truly believed they were in heaven. They were even boasting to me about it because they knew I was one of the dream walkers. They were very polite to me and rather condescending. They felt sorry for me because I wasn't in heaven like they were. I was just visiting. And they made it very plain that they said heaven is absolutely wonderful. They told me this. They weren't in heaven, but they were convinced they were. And so that made quite an impression on me. And now one thing that this is another thing that I discovered, which equates with ancient knowledge that the only physical sense that carries over is scent. You can detect aromas in the other world. And the ancient shamans came to realize this. And this explains why there's all the incense all the time in the religious ceremonies, because they know the gods, if the gods are there, can. Whatever the higher entities are, they can smell it. And in fact, they do like it. And so that's true. If you burn mountains of frankincense, it can be smelt by non physical beings because aromas carry over. Maybe not all of them, but definitely. And so I had a very interesting encounter, a double encounter. I went to this strange street scene. It was in a kind of 19th, late 19th century type street with those kind of houses, several story houses, and sort of around the Cobbly street. Very, very German or Central European type thing. But the people, they all spoke English. Well, everything's trans. Auto translated anyway. But so I noticed I was. There was quite a crowd milling around in this very small town square kind of area where they congregate. And I could see that some of them were going into what looked like a tavern, what we in England would call a pub. This is clearly not in England. And so I thought, why would they be going into a tavern when they're not able to eat or drink, you see. But this was in the early days when I was still learning how things were. They pretend that they can still do a lot of things that they did on earth and they're able to convince themselves that they're eating and drinking when they're not. So I went in there and there was this very, very powerful personality, this guy who was very dominant and he was like the leader of this region. Very, very charismatic man who looked like he was about 50 and quite a bit chunky, but not so tall. And he was in charge. And this, he had created this tavern. And it had a long central table, gleaming wooden table. This is another imaginative projection. And it had many places laid out there for people to sit. And there were plates and cutlery and napkins, the whole thing. And big sort of beer glasses all lined up ready for a big banquet. And so I was invited in eagerly. Sit down, Join us by this man. And I said, and all the people started raising their beer glasses as if they were drinking and holding them up for toasts and all that. But of course they weren't drinking. But they were holding them up and making motion as if they were drinking. And I got a bit fed up with this and I said, but there's no beer in those glasses. You're not drinking beer, you're pretending. There was a very irritated and awkward silence and people froze up and they looked at me, what do you mean we're pretending? Of course we're drinking beer. And meanwhile he had a big sort of thing like a huge roast meat on a skewer, on a spit that he was turning as if he was Roasting this huge piece of meat which he called beef. And I said. He said, sit down. And he was handing round plates with slice of a slice of this to everybody. But of course, they couldn't eat it. But they convinced themselves that they were having a meal. And I got angry about this. And I said, but that's not beef. It's not real food. You know perfectly well you can't eat or drink anything that's not beef. He said, this is roast beef. I prepared it myself. I said, it's not roast beef. Of course it's not. He got really upset. And so what happened was, and this is very unusual, the next night I went back to the same man at the same place almost never happens. And I think he had summoned me. And he said, come in. I want to show you how this really is roast beef. And it was the same setup as the previous night, except for one thing. The room was filled with the most fantastically strong smell of roast beef that I had ever experienced. He had created the aroma, you see, and he said, you can smell it, can't you? I said, yes, it's amazing. He said, now you know it's real roast beef, you see. Well, this goes to show the power of aroma in the other world, if it's evoked. And it explains all that business of burning incense for the gods that all the ancient peoples were always doing. And they would often burn it at the tops of structures, you know, so that it could go up into the sky. And you see this, the seers and the shamans, they were visiting these places, and they knew what I've been learning, you know. And also, as I said earlier, I'm not unusual because there are so many dream walkers. But you see, they're not mentally programmed to be able to accept the fact they're visiting the other world. So even if they do remember something, they can't consider it to be what it really is. Whereas in ancient times, they weren't so blocked by conventional thinking. The conventional thinking was quite different. That, of course, this was a visit to the dead. See, they didn't have the programmed resistance to such concepts that we have today. And therefore, they knew perfectly well all these things that I'm slowly learning. It's taken me 30 years to really even begin to get a grip with this, I would say, even though it's been every night for 30 years. And so these things, as far as I'm concerned, are real. But what is real? Do you put it in italics? Do you put it in quotes? What is real? Real and unreal real. In other words, our vocabulary is entirely inadequate to cover these kind of phenomena. We just don't have the words for all of this.

[B]

In your journeys to the middle regions, did you encounter non human beings, beings from other planets or animals, or any other beings other than deceased humans?

[A]

Very good question, Jeffrey. Certainly no other kinds of humanoid or intelligent beings, no. But on very rare occasions you can meet a dog. But I mean normally animals have their own place they go. But dogs, you know, high level pets who have intelligence, on very rare occasions you can find them and occasionally you can find children because children are not born there. And when you see somebody who's a child, you know that he has died as a child and is projecting the appearance he had when he died. And this can go on for a long time until they finally become acclimatized to their new environment and then they allow themselves to project an older form. So it's quite rare to see a child, but you do see them. And some of the most mischievous taunters and teasers that I've met have been teenagers who'd obviously died as teenagers in accidents or whatever. I remember something quite vividly. It was a very, very mischievous girl who was the ringleader of a bunch of teasers. And she looked like she was about 15. And she was dressed in, I presume as she must have looked on her. She was dressed in sort of threadbare clothes and a skirt that was sort of falling apart and disheveled hair and obviously reproducing what she looked like on Earth. She must have been a homeless girl or something of that kind, living off her wits somehow, but she still looked like that. You can keep your appearance if you want. And I'll few occasions I've met people who still looked old like they did the moment they died as old people, because they think of it as vanity to try to tart themselves up to look 30 again. Because they think I want to be authentic, you know, I want to look like what I left looked like when I left the Earth. But you don't meet many of them because even if they do that for a while, everybody teases them and they give up in the end and they say, oh, okay, I look a bit younger.

[B]

What about plasma beings? I think you've referred in our previous interactions to the idea that you have or could interact with plasma beings.

[A]

Oh yes, but not in the middle regions. I do that while I'm here. I had some extremely important interactions when I was flying to Singapore at 38,000ft or whatever it was. And one of them came into the plane. She was a young woman, a higher entity. And I was asleep. And she bent over. I could see her in my sleep bending over because she's about eight feet tall. You know, these higher entities are always tall. And she kissed the top of my head and woke me up, but I could still see her, but telepathically. And she was very interesting. She told me her name. We had a very long conversation. I mostly asked her about their language that they have. She came from a particular type of higher being. And I was interested in the fact that they can't pronounce hard consonants because they have no teeth, you know, because I'm interested in language. You know, I studied Sanskrit in many ancient languages. And so I'm interested in language to an extent that most people aren't, frankly. And I'm interested in language structure and all that. In other words, I'm no good at picking up languages by sound. I can't speak every European language as I go around and order food in Korean and all that kind of thing. I'm not that kind. I'm a sort of language studier type thing. And so I guess it's because of studying Sanskrit I got really deeply involved in linguistics. Frankly. I was a sole student, you see, my professor, just him and me. But sometimes the linguists, the much older linguists, you know, would come in, they're doing their PhDs and they need six weeks of Sanskrit because they've done their old Church Slavonic and every language you could think of, and maybe even studied Hopi, one of the world's most interesting languages. But then they would be told you, well, you have to do some Sanskrit. Oh, but I've done my Avestan. Never mind, never mind. You have to do Sanskrit. Oh, no, no, please, not Sanskrit. Anyway, they would come in reluctantly and then they'd leave again. So I was. The only other students I saw were 10 years older than me who, you know, they were studying medieval French. Next, to become a professional linguist, you're really slopping around everywhere.

[B]

So you're talking to the plasma entity about language.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. She was fascinated. She was, you know, she answered any question. She was very innocent, sweet, delightful girl. And she. She said that my wife and I were flying to Singapore together. And she said to us, well, to me, my wife is still asleep. I asked my father if I can go into the plains and study humans. He reluctantly agreed. And she said, I go into the plains. She entered the plains and was walked down the aisles and Studied the people. But she said, but they're always. Most of them are all dark. And she said she was very delighted this time because Olivia and I had light. That's why she kissed me on the head. I said, you mean we're the only people on the plane who have any light? She said, everybody's dark except for one other man way at the back of the plane. Because we were going business class. It was on business. She said, there's one man at the back who's glowing a bit, and he might. If he continues along that path, he'll glow more and more. She said, apart from him who's quite faint, you and your wife are the only people who have any light. Everybody else is completely dark. And she says she gets pretty depressed going into the plains and studying the humans because there's almost never anybody there that she's looking for. People who have some light, you see. And so she was glad that we could have that conversation. It went on for ages. And this is entirely telepathic, of course, and I learned a lot from her. And she lives in the atmosphere, the high atmosphere. Her type live in the high atmosphere. She said, it's very interesting that she. What? She said, do you mean you live up at. Yeah, she says, we live at this altitude. At the bottom of where we are is where all these planes go. In other words, they're sort of 40,000ft and more. And I said, do you really like being up there? Oh, yes. I said, must take you a long time to get anywhere. Oh, no, no. Anywhere we want to go, we're there instantly. But she said, I'm really curious what it's like to be down on Earth. I said, oh, you mean you've never been there? Oh, no, no, we can't go down there. I said, you mean that you're higher entities and you've never been to Earth? She said, we can't go down there because of the lizards. It was her language. She said, and the lizards get worse all the time. And we used to be much lower. In fact, they used to be able to come to hilltop height. And I think that's when they were interacting on the tops of all the big structures and things with the shamans. But she said, we've been driven up higher and higher over time because the power of the lizards is so great. And so what I want more than anything is to be able to stand on the surface of the Earth and watch the sunset and see the trees and see what you're experiencing. And she said it was the first time she'd met an under worker, she called me an under worker. And she was going to go back and tell her father, all excited then because you see, they can't come to the Earth because the power of evil is so great, because they're completely good, these guys. I guess they're sort of maybe at the angel level, who knows? But I said, are there other beings who live a bit lower down in the atmosphere? She said, oh, yes, yes, there are some at the cloud level. But you know, they're not sort of. They're just sort of not very interesting. I mean, she didn't derogate them or anything. She didn't say it like that. It's me talking. She implied that, yeah, sure, they're there and they're very nice, but we don't see much of them. And so she was completely a plasma being. And she had. I guess I'll have to tell you what she looked like. It was very striking to see the first time ever. She had long arms and legs and in the middle of each limb was like a neon light tube glowing, which was her plasma. And she had projected this form that was as close to being a human girl as it was possible for her to get. But she was a glowing plasma being, but glowing brightly. And she was trying to be pleasant looking so that I would not be frightened and also that I would like her because she wanted to have a human friend, even if it was only for half an hour. You see, it was considered her father had allowed her to do this in the hope that one day she might meet somebody that she could actually talk to. So this is a big plus from her point of view because she got to talk to somebody. She said, you are so brave to actually go and live down there. She said that she didn't know anybody who would dare. So that was a rather depressing thing to realize that the power of evil has become so strong in the earth from what she called the lizards.

[B]

Well, this is very different from astral travel though, because I gather what you're saying, you're in your normal waking state when you have these encounters.

[A]

Yes, And I've had very strange entities appear to me. Good Lord. One of them was a spinning cylinder who spoke. And he was very keen for me to realize he was male. He's a cylinder, but he's about 30ft tall and he's transparent. You could see contra rotation going on. So there was something spinning this way inside him and something spinning the other way clockwise and anti clockwise. And he was super intelligent. And he. I said, what's your name? And he said, orthar. Orthar. My name is Orthar. You mean O R T H A R. Yes, Orthar, I said. I seemed to know instantly what that meant. I said, that stands for orbital reconnaissance, terrestrial hugging, automated rover, doesn't it? Yes. What are you doing here? I move at this level, just above Earth's surface. Yes, but what are you doing here? This was in my office in London. And of course he was sticking up through the ceiling. I mean, I was in an old building from 1685 with high ceilings, but even though the ceiling was a good 15ft up, he was still double that. But of course he's invisible, except that I could see him psychically and I was with a young woman that we were discussing Egyptology, actually, because, you see, I'm involved in Egyptology and because I'm actually chairman of the Ancient Egypt foundation and my wife is the vice chairman and we support things in Egypt. But anyway, this young woman was doing a project with us. It was a friend, and she was there and she could see him too. Said, do you see him? He's a cylinder and he's speaking to me. Yes, I can see him. He's talking to you. Why is he doing that? And what is he? What is this? And do you know that guy hung around for three days? I mean, if he's supposed to be a rover studying what's going on at ground level on the Earth, why is he wasting three days sitting in my office? That's not intelligent.

[B]

Well, you might be particularly interesting to him.

[A]

Well, apparently I just had to just ignore him. I can't let these kind of entities distract me from my work, you know. But he hung around for three days and then he went. He hasn't returned. But you see, there are other mysteries. Why did he have an English name, English language name and English initials? If Orthor. That's orbital reconnaissance, terrestrial hugging, automated rover. That's English. Yeah. So what is a plasma cylinder 30ft high that's got a super computer brain, who's seriously intelligent, who's detecting stuff? Why has he got an English name?

[B]

Well, I would have been tempted at this point to go back to your original hypothesis that this might all be a product of your fantasy mind, since you're undoubtedly a very creative person. But then you talk about a woman in your office who saw the entity along with you, so that suggests there's something objective going on here.

[A]

Well, it doesn't make any sense to me. If he's okay so maybe he's some sort of alien intelligence or whatever it is. But if he's got an English name, it sort of suggests that he's been manufactured or programmed by people who speak.

[B]

English well, who certainly plasma entities. The woman you spoke to on the airplane was also communicating in English, was she not?

[A]

But. Well, with some difficulty because she wasn't used to it. You know, she has all these higher entities, they've got like Google Translate kind of thing in their heads. And so she doesn't speak English. I heard a lot of her own speech, which is very interesting, made up of mostly vowels and liquids and.

[B]

Very.

[A]

Very interesting her language. But she could speak to me through an automatic translator facility of some kind that it would come out as English. But she struggled a lot because also because she was young and she made up neologisms by which I mean completely new words. And so they're very cleverly constructed words in terms of the meaning, but they're words that have never existed or been used before that she made up to try to communicate in English what she was trying to say. So she didn't speak English by any means, but she did really well in coming up with words that were not English but were constructed of English elements so that I could sort of understand what they meant, even though I. These words didn't really exist is that she was like that. Whereas the spinning cylinder spoke perfect English, but in a kind of automated voice because he was, you know, pains to explain that he was not a sold entity as he called it, that he says he is an automaton. He's proud of it. He's proud to be an automaton. The automatons, which are that intelligent like being automatons, they're very happy.

[B]

Let me jump around again, Robert. When you're in the astral plane in the middle regions, did you run into humans there who did not speak English?

[A]

Yes, it's an interesting question. And again, Jeffrey, I was almost exclusively in English speaking territory because they. But I did go into German speaking territory. That's the only other language. And the odd thing is that when I'm disembodied, I speak completely fluent German. Highly, highly philosophical. You know, I could be having a conversation with Martin Heidegger. My German is so perfect when I'm not embodied.

[B]

Well, Robert, we've covered an awful lot of territory here, from languages to communicating with. With astral beings or plasma beings and astral beings in the middle region. Well, this has been a pure delight for me, Robert. I'm so glad to have this time with you.

[A]

Well, you don't mind talking to somebody who's out of his mind. You have a very wide tolerance.

[B]

Well, you're out of your mind in the very best way.

[A]

That's good to know. I feel better now. It's great talking to you, Jeffrey.

[B]

Well, thank you so much for your time and I hope that we can do this frequently because I know we're still just scratching the surface.

[A]

Well, long may thinking be allowed.

[B]

Thank you. Thank you very much, Robert. And for those of you watching or listening, thank you for being with us because you are the reason that we are here.

[A]

Foreign dialogue series is UFOs and UAP are we really Alone? Now available on Amazon, New Thinking Allowed.

[B]

Is presented by the California Institute for Human Science, a fully accredited university offering distant learning graduate degrees that focus on mind, body and spirit, the topics that we cover here. We are particularly excited to announce new degrees emphasizing parapsychology and the paranormal. Visit their [e-mail]. you can now download a free PDF copy of issue number 8 of the new Thinking Allowed magazine or or order a beautiful printed copy. Go to newthinkingallowed.org.