Podcast Summary: "Becoming Gary Lachman with Gary Lachman"

New Thinking Allowed Audio Podcast, October 27, 2025
Host: Jeffrey Mishlove
Guest: Gary Lachman

Episode Overview

This special episode flips the script on Gary Lachman—best known as the former bassist and songwriter of Blondie and, more recently, a renowned historian of esoteric culture. Rather than discussing esoteric figures, as in his 16 prior appearances, this conversation focuses on Lachman's personal journey: his upbringing, musical career, intellectual pursuits, and eventual immersion in esoteric scholarship, as reflected in his new memoir Touched by the Presence: From Blondie’s Bowery & Rock and Roll to Magic and the Occult.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life, Outsider Status, and Intellectual Awakening

• Generational Divide & Reading Obsession
  • Lachman grew up in New Jersey with parents who were "very unsympathetic" to his reading habits and intellectual inclinations, reflective of the broader "generation gap" in postwar America.
    • "There was the tail end of the hippies... do your own thing and don't conform still had currency for me..." (03:57)
    • His parents, products of the Depression and WWII ("the Greatest Generation"), found his love of books threatening or incomprehensible.
  • He recounts how comic books, particularly the Legion of Superheroes, sparked early interests in the "occult and mysterious" and led him to self-driven learning.
    • "I've been trying to figure this out ever since I was about five years old..." (08:05)
• Notable Quote:
  • "My sensibilities changed and what I wanted to express, I couldn't express in a pop song anymore." (00:00, recapped later at 31:12)

2. Rock and Roll: Punk Origins, Blondie, and the Path Out

• Entry into Music Scene
  • Lachman fell in with radical, artistic circles—the "weirdest people" in town—eventually leading to New York, where he joined Blondie, despite lacking formal musical training.
    • "I was not known as a musician... I could kind of, sort of almost maybe play..." (12:51)
  • Describes 1970s NYC as dangerous but creatively fertile territory.
• On Punk Rock
  • Blondie emerged just before the "punk" label coalesced, with Lachman's songwriting blending '60s AM radio pop with a stripped-down, poetic new style.
    • "The early days... it was called New York rock or street rock... wasn't called anything." (16:39)
  • Self-taught on bass and guitar, embodying punk's DIY ethos.
• Leaving Blondie
  • Despite early fame, he felt stifled; lacking creative control and craving to play guitar, he left Blondie on the cusp of their major success.
    • "I wanted to have my own band. That was basically it." (22:11)
  • Wrote the song "I'm Always Touched By Your Presence, Dear," which became a hit in the UK and subtly referenced theosophy.
    • "It's the only song, I believe, with the word 'theosophy' in the lyrics that got to the top 10." (23:34)
• Rock to Esotericism
  • Formed his own band, The Know—a nod to Gnosticism—while increasingly drawing inspiration from occult and magical literature.
    • "I was trying to incorporate some of these ideas into the pop songs..." (31:12)

3. Transition to Scholarship: Philosophy & The Bodhi Tree

• Intellectual Deepening
  • After leaving music, Lachman devoted himself to reading and philosophy, even enrolling as a mature student in a philosophy program in Los Angeles after a mini-"Search for the Miraculous" (inspired by Gurdjieff).
    • "I would have been about 28... I discovered I was good at it..." (32:10–33:30)
• Double Life: Academia and the Occult
  • Worked at the famed metaphysical bookshop The Bodhi Tree, a spiritual and intellectual LA landmark—studying philosophy by day and discussing aura and crystals by night.
    • "At the shop, I was the resident rationalist, and then in my philosophy class, I was the one more interested in spiritual, occult sorts of things..." (36:32)
• Skepticism of Academic Fashions
  • Expressed strong discomfort with postmodernism and critical theory, preferring existentialism, phenomenology, and "old humanist, romantic" traditions.
    • "I wasn't interested in Marx. I wasn't interested in the French and their absolute fascination with this... incomprehensible philosophy..." (37:28)
  • Frustration at academia's resistance to esoteric or romantic perspectives; left graduate studies after skepticism from advisors.
• First Forays as a Writer
  • Began writing book reviews and essays on chaos theory, philosophy, and the occult, gradually building his writing career.

4. Crisis, Collapse, and Destiny’s Rebirth

• Personal & Professional Crisis
  • After a stint as a science writer at UCLA—despite no science background—Lachman found money and comfort did not equate to happiness:
    • "I'm making a lot of money... But am I? And then, you know, from the depths of my soul comes no." (51:05)
  • His marriage collapsed, he lost his job, and faced existential despair.
    • Quoting Jung and Goethe on life's forced transformations when one fails to heed the inner imperative to change.
• Pivotal Meeting and Move to London
  • Participation in a Rosicrucian conference in the Czech Republic, a fortuitous reconnection with Colin Wilson, and an invitation to London crystallized his next move:
    • "It's either I'm going to follow my destiny, follow my bliss... and take the plunge..." (52:49)
  • Sold possessions, moved to London on January 1, 1996; memoir ends at this juncture.

5. Reinvention and the Work of Scholarship

• Finding Home in England
  • England offered the environment Lachman needed; continuous writing and research followed.
    • "England's been very good to me. London's been very, very good to me. It hasn't been easy, but I've been working steadily since I came." (53:42)
• Late Bloomer/Second Act
  • Inspired by authors like Henry Miller and Owen Barfield, who "bloomed late," and recognizing his true calling only at 40.
    • "I'm one of those late bloomers... It took me four decades to find myself." (54:00–54:14)
  • Brief returns to music punctuated his new vocation, but he embraced the scholar’s path.
• On Esotericism’s Influence
  • Reflects that his encounters with figures like Blavatsky, Steiner, Swedenborg, and Jung had more impact than early fame:
    • "You, your exposure to these figures... has had a deeper impact on you than the fact that you wrote books or that you wrote songs." (58:03, Mishlove)
  • Lachman emphasizes that, in the end, the esoteric journey is deeply subjective—a matter of one’s own "inner world." (58:29)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Self-Discovery and Nonconformity:
  "I only wanted to follow the promptings of my true self. Why was that so difficult? Why is it so difficult to become who you are?" (59:05, Gary Lachman)

• On the Artist’s Calling:
  "If you bring forth what is within you, what is within you will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what is within you will destroy you." — Quoting the Gospel of Thomas, (59:33)

• On Perseverance:
  "You never gave up. You had many disappointments... but you kept going. You always picked yourself back up." (58:43, Mishlove) "What's the alternative? I'll be unable to pick myself up soon enough..." (59:05, Lachman)

• On Fate and Creative Life:
  "Nietzsche said... his formula for greatness is the love of fate... to be able to affirm your life." (56:32, Lachman)

Timeline & Timestamps for Major Segments

• Comic Books and Early Mysticism (05:53–11:29)
• New York, Blondie, and Punk’s Emergence (11:45–20:34)
• Songwriting, Ex Offender, Touched by Your Presence Dear (20:34–23:34)
• Rock to Occult/Intellectual Interests (23:34–32:03)
• Academic Turn and The Bodhi Tree (32:10–36:32)
• On Academic Philosophy, Deconstructionism (37:13–39:47)
• Crisis at UCLA and Collapse (51:05–52:49)
• Move to London, End of Memoir (52:49–54:00)
• Reflection on Late Blooming and Destiny (54:00–57:00)
• Esotericism vs. Acclaim (58:03–59:05)
• Resilience and Personal Philosophy (59:05–60:23)

Tone & Language

Lachman speaks with humility, humor, and erudition, wearied but passionate, sometimes self-deprecating, yet always reflective. Mishlove’s tone is supportive, curious, and appreciative.

For Listeners: Key Takeaways

• Becoming oneself is a nonlinear, often late-blooming process.
• External success can mask deeper dissatisfaction if one’s true callings are unfulfilled.
• Esoteric and spiritual pursuits can provide profound meaning outside the mainstream.
• Resilience in the face of loss, reinvention, and starting over is essential.
• The creative journey demands authenticity, and sometimes “bringing forth what is within you” is the only viable path—even (or especially) in the face of adversity.

For more on Gary Lachman’s journey and the historical figures that inspired him, listeners are encouraged to explore his new memoir and earlier works. To all engaging with these ideas: as Lachman and Mishlove both imply, the real transformative work is done within.