Podcast Summary: "Dream Initiation with Sarah Janes"

New Thinking Allowed Audio Podcast
Host: Jeffrey Mishlove
Guest: Sarah Janes
Date: January 3, 2026

Overview

This episode of New Thinking Allowed explores the ancient practice and cultural significance of dreaming as an initiatory, healing, and oracular experience. Jeffrey Mishlove interviews Sarah Janes—author, scholar, and lifelong lucid dreamer—about her research into dream incubation, its historical roots, and its transformative potential. The conversation moves from personal stories to cross-cultural perspectives, brain science, and renewed interest in sacred dreaming practices.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Power and Undervaluation of Dreams

• Sarah Janes laments the modern "cult of wakefulness," noting how dreaming remains vastly underrated despite its role in psychological and spiritual integration. She highlights a parallel between dreaming and psychedelic experiences, especially in the context of healing and transformation.

  • "There's a bit of a cult of wakefulness in the modern world and dreaming is vastly underrated." (00:00)

• Lucid dreaming as a lifelong experience:

  • Janes describes a family legacy of lucid dreaming and how losing her dream life post-childbirth sparked an obsessive appreciation and evangelism for dreaming (03:26, 03:56).

• Dreams as guidance and life-shaping forces:

  • Both Mishlove and Janes share anecdotes about dreams leading them to life decisions and places—often with a sense of recognition or "coming home" when arriving at locations previously seen in dreams (05:14–09:19).

Historical and Cultural Roots of Dream Incubation

• Ancient Practices and Sleep Temples:

  • Janes recounts the tradition of dream incubation at sites like the Sanctuary of Asclepius in Greece, where individuals would receive dream callings to visit for healing (06:05–07:42).
  • The figure of Asclepius, the Greek god of healing, appears as a dream guide, with temples facilitating dream-based healing rituals.

• Archaeological Connections:

  • Discussion of ancient Anatolian sites (e.g., Göbekli Tepe, Çatalhöyük) and how material evidence suggests intentional sleep, dreaming, and even interment with ancestors as central to early human spirituality (10:06–12:57, 18:09–21:12).
  • Emerging consensus on the importance of dreaming in shaping beliefs about the soul, afterlife, and inspiration.

"A dream that nearly everyone will have in their lifetime is having an interaction with someone who's deceased. And I think for ancient people that would be quite strong evidence that the soul perpetuates after bodily death." —Sarah Janes (12:01)

• The Role of Caves and Necromancy:
  • Caves as original dream incubation chambers; relationships with the dead and seeking knowledge of the future via dreams were common practices (18:50–21:12).

Cross-Cultural Parallels and Modern Revivals

• Indigenous Dream Traditions:

  • Janes mentions research on Australian Aboriginal "dreaming" as a worldview where consciousness and time are fluid, and dreaming is a way of being woven into the cosmic fabric (13:06–15:40).

• Initiation and Lucidity:

  • Initiation in dreams provides a direct awareness of nonphysical realities—what some traditions call the astral or spiritual planes (21:12–24:47).

"The most fundamental initiation that occurs in dreams is a direct awareness of the world beyond this three dimensional physical plane... there's this vast reality beyond our normal waking sensory experience." —Jeffrey Mishlove (21:12)

• Mythology and Memory:
  • The Greek goddess Mnemosyne (Memory) is referenced as the mother of the Muses and the original inspiration for all creativity—a metaphor for how lucidity in dreams brings a flood of insight that bridges subconscious and conscious life (21:52–24:47).

Loss, Transformation, and Rediscovery

• Bronze Age Collapse and Lost Wisdom:

  • The fragmentation of ancient cultures led to the loss of continuous dream wisdom transmission, unlike in cultures such as India or Tibet, where meditative practices were preserved (27:14–29:01).

• Ecstasy and Transformation in Dreams:

  • Dreams—especially lucid and ecstatic ones—often induce transformation, problem-solving, healing, and profound insight (29:01–34:55).
  • Discussion of dream sexual symbolism (e.g., snakes in Asclepian rites), physical healing in dreams, and the blending of physical and spiritual healing modalities at ancient temples.

• Dreams, Environment, and the Ka

  • The Egyptian "ka" is discussed as the creative, animating life force, and environmental influences (smells, sounds, even hieroglyphs) are emphasized as vital to dream quality (46:56–51:29).

Psychological & Therapeutic Aspects of Dreaming

• Western ambivalence and demonization:

  • Later Western monotheism sometimes reinterpreted dreams as demonic, but pre-Christian traditions and even some Christian practices (e.g., pilgrimage to dream of saints) retained the dream's healing and oracular role (34:55–39:21).

• Entities, Nightmares, and Sleep Paralysis:

  • Nightmares and sleep paralysis are traditionally seen as external entities; modern approaches (and new terminology such as "Threshold Contact Experience") encourage facing and befriending these experiences, transforming them into sources of wisdom (40:12–42:54).

"But the best thing is always to, like, really love it and not be scared of it and think it's funny or think it's silly. And then you transform it." —Sarah Janes (41:30)

Group Dreaming and Social Dimensions

• Shared Dream Practices:
  • Recalling the (possibly apocryphal) Senoi dream culture, the value of group dream sharing and collective incubation is emphasized, both historically and in Janes's modern retreats (43:44–44:56).

Practical Techniques and Psychological Tools

• Dream Incubation and Lucid Dreaming Methods:

  • Practical methods include engaging memory, emotion, environment (smell, sound), and creativity to promote lucidity and dream recall.
  • Sarah's practical tips: introduce scents like coffee or rosemary to your sleep environment for potential memory and lucidity enhancement (47:45–51:29).

• Problem-solving and Healing:

  • Lucid dreams are highlighted as useful tools for insight, closure, trauma resolution, and even self-therapy (45:34–46:56).

• Geopsychology:

  • The environment's deep psychological influence is acknowledged as an emerging field, reinforcing why ancient sanctuaries were built for harmony and impact (51:29–54:43).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "There's a bit of a cult of wakefulness in the modern world and dreaming is vastly underrated."
  — Sarah Janes (00:00)
• "For me, like Istanbul is the strongest feeling I've ever had of having visited somewhere in a dream. Everything seems really familiar. It's so fantastic."
  — Sarah Janes (08:08)
• "I think there's something to be said for following your dreams. I do think that's kind of the purpose of them, that trying to reveal the best possible path for us."
  — Sarah Janes (06:05)
• "A dream that nearly everyone will have in their lifetime is having an interaction with someone who's deceased. And I think for ancient people that would be quite strong evidence that the soul perpetuates after bodily death."
  — Sarah Janes (12:01)
• "Dreaming tells us the future all the time. So it hints at this version of reality that's oracular, that the world is revealing itself and its next moves in everything all the time."
  — Sarah Janes (22:50)
• "Ecstasy and lucid dreaming—when you suddenly remember who and where you are...you have this flood of ecstasy or bliss that feels like inspiration."
  — Sarah Janes (23:41)
• "If you're having a lot of nightmares, then you're trying to tell yourself something, you're trying to resolve something. It's not an ideal situation."
  — Sarah Janes (34:55)
• "My main area of research is in the history and culture of dreaming and dreaming for healing and divinatory purposes."
  — Sarah Janes (29:44)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00] The undervaluation of dreaming and overlap with psychedelic integration
• [03:01] Sarah Janes’s introduction and background as a lifelong lucid dreamer
• [06:05] Dreams leading to real-world decisions and recognition of "dream places"
• [10:06] Archaeological and historical speculation on early dreaming rituals
• [13:06] Connections between Paleolithic/cave-dwelling culture and indigenous dreaming practices
• [18:50] Caves, ancestor dreaming, and necromancy in ancient rituals
• [21:12] Initiation in dreams: direct experience of nonphysical realities
• [27:14] Cultural amnesia post-Bronze Age collapse; loss and rediscovery of dream knowledge
• [29:01] Sex and ecstasy in ancient dreaming and healing
• [34:55] Interactions of healing, medicine, and dreaming in ancient temples
• [39:21] The demonization of certain dream experiences; Lilith and sleep paralysis
• [41:30] Transforming nightmares; facing dream entities with love and humor
• [43:44] Senoi dream sharing culture and group dream work
• [45:34] Lucid dreaming as a tool for problem solving and trauma resolution
• [47:45] The Egyptian concept of the ka and dream body
• [51:29] The emerging field of geopsychology: environment's impact on the psyche
• [54:43] Reflections on the sacredness of life and the inner world

Takeaways

• Ancient and indigenous dream wisdom is being rediscovered as both spiritual and practical guidance.
• Dream initiation is a bridge to the sacred, to the ancestors, and to dimensions of reality beyond the waking world.
• Modern dream research and practice—especially when accompanied by group sharing and environmental awareness—can profoundly heal, inspire, and transform individuals.
• Sarah Janes exemplifies the union of scholarship, lived experience, and creative practice in the field of dream study, advocating for a revival of dream incubation and active engagement with the dream world as part of holistic well-being.

End of Summary