Neurodiversity, Part 6: Update with Annika and Tristan

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Neurodiversity, Part 6: Update with Annika and Tristan

Podcast: New Thinking Allowed Audio Podcast
Date: May 3, 2025
Host: Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove
Guests: Annika and Tristan

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Overview

This episode offers a unique, in-depth update on Annika and Tristan—a pair sharing what they describe as “two souls in one body.” The conversation explores their lived experiences navigating society, their evolving understanding of consciousness, soul dynamics, out-of-body experiences, spiritual practice, shared dreams, and encounters with non-human intelligences. Through stories of vulnerability, humor, and music, they illuminate the challenges and joys of their extraordinary inner lives.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Life Since Their Last Visit: Stability and Growth

• Annika and Tristan report a year of spiritual growth and happiness, with stability in their “two souls, one body” arrangement.
• Both participated in an interview at the Peri Center in Italy, facilitated by Alex Gomez Marin.
  • Tristan: “He’s been absolutely wonderful in helping us… We’re hoping he’s going to put us under some scientific equipment soon so we can see how this works biologically.” (02:52)
• No dramatic external changes, but ongoing adaptation to living in a world largely unable to comprehend their experience.

2. Social Navigation and Staying Safe

• Annika is usually the public “face” due to how society perceives the body.
• Tristan occasionally appears solo, successfully “passing” to acquaintances, but outings still require caution.
• Increased social confidence, particularly when among trusted friends and in supportive online communities (like the Experiencer Network).
• Heightened caution given social tensions and anti-trans sentiments:
  • Annika: “We really haven’t been public more than the Perry center and your show, just because we’re, like, really afraid of being too far out there and, you know, getting too much attention.” (05:53)

3. Gender, Identity, and Societal Constructs

• Annika identifies as female, but legal documents were changed to nonbinary to respect Tristan.
• Both note how society equates the body with personhood and struggles with concepts like multiple souls sharing one body.
  • Annika: “The body is trans. We had to transition the body, but the souls… have always been the same.” (09:58)

On Gender Dysphoria and Trans Experiences

• Annika shares experiencing gender dysphoria upon “receiving” the body and transitioned for comfort.
• Tristan and Annika emphasize the diversity and complexity of trans and soul experiences:
  • Annika: “I think there’s way more complex soul situations than our society even knows about.” (10:40)

4. Psychological & Medical Reflections

• Diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), but neither Annika nor Tristan feel the diagnosis captures their reality.
• Dr. Mishlove remarks on the lack of literature and urges more research/documentation on similar cases in hopes of expanding understanding beyond pathology.

5. “Playing the Brain Like an Instrument”

• The duo uses meditation to facilitate “switching” between who is in control of the body.
• Early challenges included confusion, “glitches,” tics, and even choking episodes, which have lessened as they learned to “play” the brain together:
  • Annika: “Now we just make music together and dance all day.” (15:27)
• A playful parallel is made between their duet approach on a guitar-lele and their navigation of dual consciousness.

6. Extraordinary Experiences: The Ski Trip

• Detailed recounting of a transformative ski trip that highlighted the practical reality of “two souls, one body”:
  • Annika skied as a novice, later summoned Tristan to the body so he could ski with childhood muscle memory.
  • Annika experienced a sudden, vivid out-of-body episode with 360-degree perception while Tristan piloted the body at high speed.
  • The incident emphasized their distinct skills, memories, and perspectives and initiated further experiments into out-of-body experiences. (See timestamped segment [20:38]–[27:33])

Out-of-Body Experiences (OBEs)

• Differentiation between astral travel (going to an “afterlife realm”) and OBEs (remaining in the physical plane but outside the body).
• Both can induce OBEs through meditation; they have experimented with both being out of the body simultaneously, noticing unique phenomena like shared dream spaces and areas of consciousness.

7. Shared Dreaming and Sleep Dynamics

• Their shared consciousness extends into dreaming, often having shared or overlapping dreams with each other.
• They describe times when one falls asleep before the other, resulting in unusual sensations and mild hypnagogic hallucinations.
  • Annika: “It’s a really weird sensation… suddenly he just conks out and… his thoughts disappear.” (39:47)

8. Altered States, Entheogens, and Consciousness

• Use of cannabis had unpredictable effects: sometimes only one would be “high,” while the other remained unaffected—suggesting deeper, consciousness-dependent effects.
  • Tristan: “I had done a little bit more neuroscience research, and…this shouldn’t be happening. What’s going on?” (43:22)
• Through entheogens and meditation, they discovered the ability to move into higher “densities/frequencies” of consciousness; doing so provides clarity, smooths their soul-switching, and brings profound spiritual insights, but can also expose one to challenging lower states.

9. Chakras, Soul Energetics, and Spiritual Practice

• Each soul has its own set of chakras, confirmed by an intuitive in the Experiencer community.
• Through meditation, Annika or Tristan can assist the other by “unblocking” energetic centers, facilitating healing and personal growth.
  • Tristan: “There’s no words to really describe that sensation of this explosive energy…” (51:03)
• Tristan acknowledges his journey from skeptic to believer, having been forced to “contend with” and ultimately embrace profound spiritual realities.

10. Contact with Non-Human Intelligence

• Tristan recounts lifelong experiences with non-human (E.T.) entities, experienced as overwhelming, conscious presences—sometimes inducing sleep paralysis and terror, but never harm.
• As a child, Tristan drew an alien script during a dream/vision that later matched purportedly real UFO glyphs (see [59:02]).
• Annika also shares more recent direct encounters with these presences upon Tristan’s return to the body.
  • Annika: “It’s like having a whale suddenly show up in your house… it just overwhelms everything in the area.” (61:25)
• Both interpret their life arrangement as a pre-birth agreement, possibly assisted by these beings.

11. Music as Healing, Communication, and Expression

• Throughout, Annika and Tristan perform original songs that illustrate their unique connection and mutual love.
• They recount the creative process and how songs sometimes appeared in shared dreams or served as emotional bridges during challenging periods.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Social Concealment:
  • Tristan: “It still very much feels like we have to hide from the majority of society.” (05:44)
• On Gender & Soul:
  • Annika: “The body is trans… but the souls… have always been the same.” (09:58)
• On Psychiatric Labels:
  • Tristan: “Yeah, it’s not a disorder if it doesn’t cause a disorder in your life.” (12:43)
• On Integration:
  • Annika: “Now we just make music together and dance all day.” (15:36)
• On Out-of-Body Revelation:
  • Annika: “All of a sudden, that was gone and I was seeing… almost 360… I was seeing the mountain, skiers around…” (25:05)
• On Substance Use & Frequencies:
  • Tristan: “It depended on your frequency of consciousness… we could switch the body like it was nothing.” (43:38)
• On Soul Agreements:
  • Tristan: “We chose to do this before we incarnated… I feel like they [the ETs] have definitely… it’s all tied together.” (60:22)
• On Mission:
  • Annika: “You are…here to help others. You’re here to bridge the gap.” (63:58)

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Notable Timestamps

• [02:41] – Recap of the past year and scientific research prospects
• [05:44] – Social fears and navigating public life
• [10:40] – Complexity of soul and gender experiences
• [15:36] – Learning “to play the brain” as an instrument
• [20:38-27:33] – Ski trip and dramatic out-of-body experiences
• [32:07] – Differentiating astral travel from OBEs
• [41:46] – Dreams, sleep, and “falling asleep first”
• [43:38] – Effects of cannabis and meditative insight
• [49:23] – Independent soul chakras and energy work
• [53:54] – Early non-human entity experiences
• [59:02] – Alien script and childhood experiences
• [63:58] – The “mission” of helping others awaken spiritually
• [65:07] and beyond – Musical performances and deepening connection

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Songs Performed (Live)

• “Here With You”
• “Sorry for Eating Meat” (humorous song about dietary differences)
• “My Love Will Always Find You” (about connection beyond physical separation)

“Music brings us closer together, and it’s a dance. That’s really what it is.”
— Tristan (76:23)

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Closing Reflections

Annika and Tristan’s ongoing journey is a poignant exploration of neurodiversity, consciousness, and soul. They reflect on the challenges of societal misunderstanding, the beauty of internal harmony, and the possibilities that lie in exploring consciousness beyond the ordinary. With a blend of scientific curiosity, spiritual openness, and artistic expression, they invite listeners to consider new paradigms of identity, embodiment, and connection.

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For fellow experiencers:
Dr. Mishlove encourages viewers/listeners with similar or related experiences to come forward so the broader spectrum of human consciousness and identity can be better understood and compassionately studied.

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(Advertisements and outro omitted)

Transcript

[A]

Book three in the new Thinking Allowed.

[B]

Dialogue series is UFOs and UAP. Are we really Alone? Now available on Amazon, New Thinking Allowed.

[C]

Is presented by the California Institute for Human Science, a fully accredited university offering distant learning graduate degrees that focus on mind, body and spirit. The topics that we cover here. We are particularly excited to announce new degrees emphasizing parapsychology and the paranormal. Visit their [e-mail].

[D]

You can now download a free PDF.

[C]

Copy of issue number eight of the.

[D]

New Thinking Allowed magazine or order a beautiful printed copy.

[C]

Go to newthinkingallowed.org.

[E]

Thinking allowed conversations on the Leading Edge of Knowledge and Discovery with psychologist Jeffrey Mishlove.

[D]

Hello and welcome.

[E]

I'm Jeffrey Mishlove. Today is a very special day. We're here on the Ides of March in our little studio in Albuquerque. I have a live guest with me in the studio and actually two guests, Annika and Tristan are with me today. They've been on New Thinking Allowed four times in the past. I encourage you to check our listings. I'll even link to one of them in the upper right hand corner. The very first interview we did, if you haven't watched it, it'll be a very good introduction because we're going to pick up today as sort of an update. It's been a year since Annika and Tristan have been here with me in Albuquerque, and I know they've had exciting life.

[D]

Now I'm talking about two souls in one body.

[E]

Welcome, Anika. Welcome, Tristan.

[B]

Hi, Jeffrey. It's a pleasure being here.

[F]

Hi, Jeffrey. It's a real honor.

[E]

It's a pleasure to be with both of you and I know you've had an exciting life over the last year. Amongst other things, you met my good friend Alex Gomez Marin, who is the director of the Peri center in Italy, and he even arranged for you to be a special guest in a program there.

[F]

Yeah, we did a little interview at the Peri center online. It was great. It was wonderful. Tons of people attended. We were a little nervous, but it went great.

[B]

Yeah, he's been absolutely wonderful in helping us along with our case and studying us. And we're hoping that he's going to put us under some scientific equipment soon so we can see how this works biologically. But we're excited.

[F]

Yeah, he's been great.

[E]

And the interesting thing, I suppose from my point of view is here we are a year later and I don't notice personally because we've had now 12 hours or so to interact. Well, most of that was sleeping, but you've been here in Albuquerque now since last night. So we've had time together, and I.

[D]

Don'T notice any dramatic changes since you.

[E]

Were here a year ago. It seems as if your situation, in terms of stability, of two souls interacting in one body seems about the same.

[F]

Yeah, we've had a really great year. It's been really wonderful for us. A lot of spiritual growth, a lot of learning. But in terms of stability, yeah, we're doing great. We love each other.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

It's been wonderful. It's been a really, really special year. And yeah, like Jason said, we love each other. Everything is stable, everything's wonderful. Job is going great. Just everything's fantastic.

[E]

But I think it's fair to say that you're still aware of the fact that you live in a larger society that is almost incapable of understanding the very concept of two souls in one body.

[B]

Yeah, like, there's been friends I've opened up to about it, and it's been really nice to be able to send the interviews we did because it's like there's their perfect introduction to it. But, yeah, it's still something that whenever I go out, I have to, like, you know, make up a story as to, like, my situation or, you know, the person I spend all my time with. And some of my friends just know him as my dad, you know, so it's like, it's tricky to navigate reality.

[F]

As far as myself. Yeah, I don't get out of the house as much. I got to go on a ski trip, which was nice recently. It's nice when her friends do know because then I get invited to things, which is nice. But most of my life is still spent at home because we can't go out. I think we've gotten a little bit more confident just going for walks and talking with each other because everybody's on their devices these days, so they don't really notice us walking around talking to each other, which is nice. But still, we're always a little cautious, especially when we're laughing. And for being a little too animated or switching the body really hard back and forth, it still very much feels like we have to hide from the majority of society.

[E]

And the reason being.

[F]

The reason being, I think you kind of wanted to go into it.

[B]

The reason being because, well, one, we don't want people to look down on us or think like, oh, my God, you know, like, she's crazy because they'll see me first. Or, you know, or especially with the political situation in the country with the anti trans kind of movement, that's been pretty scary and to the point where it's like we've. We really haven't been public more than the Perry center and your show, just because we're, like, really afraid of being too far out there and, you know, getting too much attention. So we're trying to keep, like, a low profile.

[F]

Yeah, it's a little bit of a scary time in the country. And, you know, and also just from, like, the comments on the last video, not everybody is ready for this or can accept this, and some people really don't like it for some reason. So we just. We're playing it cautious. We're just playing it safe.

[E]

Annika, you're really the face of the two souls in one body for the most part. You're the one who's out in public.

[B]

Yes. Yeah, I'm the one who goes out. I'm the one who, like, you know, if we have to go do chores or something, like, I'm always like, the face of it, so. But, you know, we have also, like, Tristan has gone out alone now a couple times, and if he dresses in, like, his boy clothes that he has and he, like, you know, wears a hat or something, like, he goes out just fine and people recognize him as a boy and they see him. So there's been a few times where he's did a little excursion here and there.

[F]

I don't know if 711 is exactly.

[B]

An excursion, but yeah, it's still somewhere.

[F]

Yeah, I've gone out a few times, which is nice. And when, like, with her friends, it's been really nice because I can actually sit there and have a conversation at the table, they still see her, but more and more they're acknowledging me.

[E]

So you're beginning to form a circle of people.

[F]

Yeah, yeah. And we also have the Experiencer group, which is a collection of experiencers, the Experiencer Network, run by Oak, who runs our Experiencers over on Reddit. And they've been so wonderful and accepting. It's our online family. We're going to get to see them next month when we go to the UFO convention. It's going to be great to be able to go on trips together.

[B]

Yeah, we love going on trips. So even just being able to come here and be open and just not have to be afraid or have to, like, you know, hide. This is so wonderful.

[F]

Yeah. I will admit it's still weird going through airport security because I feel like I'm being smuggled through airport security because normally, you know, I would want to buy two tickets, but there's only one body. And so security only sees one body. But every time we go through the scanner, I'm like, I feel like a stowaway, you know, hiding along.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Legally, I guess you are now a female.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Actually, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like some of my documents, I decided to go non binary out of respect to Tristan. But legally female. Yep.

[E]

Technically speaking, among the other liabilities that you have, from a sociological point of view, you're a trans female.

[B]

Yes, yes. From a societal perspective. Yep.

[E]

But I imagine inside you don't feel that way. Exactly.

[B]

I do. I feel 100% female and I've always felt that way. But I'm also responsible for Tristan. I think it stems from society. Basically. Like our society completely sees the body as the person. And they see the physical aspect of a person as that is who they are versus the soul. And I think that's the big one. Is that. So when they look at me, they're going to see female, they might hear female. And that's my soul. But Tristan is also there and he's male, he's a boy, he's masculine, he's. And so when he's in front, when he has the body, sometimes people see the body as masculine. So I think it has more to do with our society. I like to say that the body is trans. Like we had to transition the body, but the souls, they've always been the same.

[E]

Well, what I meant to say is you're not a typical trans female. Because if I understand correctly, a typical trans female would have experience gender dysphoria. Is that something you experienced?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Like when I first got the body from Tristan. So when he first gave me the body, yeah, the dysphoria was crazy because the body was masculine, it was male. And so I transitioned the body to make myself more comfortable.

[F]

Yeah, you made yourself at home.

[B]

And so, yeah, I had to transition it. I had to work on it. I had to take hormones, the full work. So I definitely. And when it comes to trans women, there are some trans women just in my experience, working with the trans community is like some trans women feel like they were born in the wrong body and they've always had the same soul and the body just had. They had gender dysphoria and they had to transition it, while others, like one of my friends, they were in a similar two soul situation where it was a walk in, where they felt like they came in or that they were given the body by like the male soul that originally had it. So there's different. I think there's way more complex soul situations than our society even knows about.

[E]

I imagine that that's the case. I imagine that if we were to dig a little deeper into the actual experiences of people, we might come up with a hundred variations.

[F]

Yeah. And I think a lot of people are afraid. They're scared to talk about this. They're scared to be open about it. And one of the things that came out of that interview is that people reached to us after the video and said, hey, this is our situation and we're in the same boat. And we're multiple souls sharing a body. We're two people and male and female, and we're trying to figure it out and navigate it. So we've actually been able to help people who are in our situation. So it is more complex and it is more widespread than society lets on.

[E]

And I might add, as a researcher, I'm not aware of any case like yours in the literature. Maybe it exists. I haven't done a thoroughly examination. But in any case, the literature deals with psychopathology. It would be a psychiatric literature. And personally, I don't see you as suffering, at least right now, from a psychopathology. You seem to be well adjusted.

[B]

Yeah, we have a normal home life. It's full of love and adventure and fun. It's wonderful.

[F]

Yeah, it's not a disorder if it doesn't cause a disorder in your life. And while we do have an official DID diagnosis, even the doctor was like, he went to his colleagues, he went to his university trying to find something to give him a reference as to what our case was. And the closest he could find was did but even then he's like, I really don't know, but here's the closest diagnosis I can.

[E]

I would just throw it right out the window, frankly. I think we have to Medical profession hasn't encountered a person like you and they don't have a good category. Actually, I would suggest for any of our viewers or listeners who are experiencing something similar, it would be very useful if we could document a dozen different cases that are, let's say, part of the same spectrum to which you belong so that we can establish this as a thing that you're not just the only one out there by yourself willing to be public.

[F]

Yeah, that would be great if we had more people to back it up and more situations. And I think that this is worth digging into because it hints at the nature of the soul. It hints at the nature of our spirituality. And I think that merging of science and spirituality is a really good thing. Even Though there's going to be a lot of resistance in the scientific community, we're hoping, with Alex's help and other researchers, that we'll be able to understand how this works in the brain.

[B]

The brain's kind of like an instrument.

[F]

Yeah, exactly.

[E]

Well, you do play an instrument. You brought your guitar, Laylee.

[B]

Yeah, guitar, Lele. Yeah, guitar.

[E]

And we'll take it out later. But when you say the brain is.

[D]

An instrument, it made me think maybe.

[E]

The brain is almost like the way the two of you can do duets on your guitar. Laylee, you're playing the brain like you're having a duet.

[B]

Yeah, that's exactly what it's like. We have to, like. We use meditation to kind of move in and out of the body. We use it to decrease awareness throughout the body so that the other person can come in. And when Tristan first came back, because if you're not aware that it's an instrument, you may not know how to play it. And so when he first came back to the body, one of the most difficult things we had was that the brain was just full of so many thoughts. It was two people's thoughts, and it was so confusing. And we were dealing with glitches and tics. Early on, we had a lot of biological problems, struggling to not choke and things like that. And now we've learned how to play it. You know, we've learned how to play that instrument. And so now we just make music together and dance all day.

[E]

Well, so that's a good thing. And I know I want to talk more about some of the details of what it's like playing the brain as an instrument, but I thought it'd be very interesting to share with our viewers and listeners the experience you had on this ski trip.

[B]

Okay, yeah, sure. Okay. So the ski trip happened back in February, actually January. And what happened was, is that my friend invited both Tristan and myself to Mount Hood to go skiing. And I've never been skiing before, so I was like, oh, this is. I was really nervous about it, but I was like, okay, this will be a really fun experience. But Tristan, on the other hand, he grew up next to a ski resort, and so he spent his entire childhood skiing.

[E]

Let me stop for a minute, because there'll be viewers who haven't watched the earlier videos, and we should establish just for their clarity.

[F]

That's a good point.

[E]

Tristan was the original person born in this body.

[F]

Yes, that's correct.

[E]

Annika appeared when you were 22. 22. And then you. There was a time when you felt you were dying, Tristan, and you decided Annika wanted the body and she should have it because she had a life as well. And you basically left the body for five years.

[F]

Yes.

[E]

So when she said, when Tristan came back after five years, it's as if Annika summoned you back.

[F]

Yeah, she did. Because when I left the body, I had no intention of coming back for me. I thought I was dying. I wasn't spiritual. I was. I was atheist. I didn't really believe in any of this, but there was this knowing, this undercurrent that I couldn't ignore. And I recognized her as her own person, her own soul. And I realized that life had not been easy for her because of the way she came in. And so I gave her the body, and I said, you can take it. I want you to live your life. I want you to, you know, grow old, you know, experience Earth. I want you to live. And so I left. And then five years later, she figured out some sort of meditation or something and managed to pull me back to the body. And then I was in absolute shock. I had to come to the reality of everything that happened, and then we had to navigate life together. It was a real challenge. It was a real challenge.

[E]

So. And I think the fascinating thing about that is you had no memory at all of the intervening five years.

[F]

No. There's some vague knowings of places and things, but I don't. I don't have, like, a strong memory of it. And when I came back, I was so disoriented and afraid to be honest and overwhelmed that I don't think. Even if I did. I don't know. It's like a dream. I mean, maybe after so long, it fades or you don't remember it, but, yeah, it was basically from the beginning of 2017-2021. I just jumped through time. It was like Back to the Future or something, where suddenly there was. I went from. Let's see, Trump had just won, and then I went to Biden. So it was this massive jump in everything. I didn't know about the pandemic. I didn't know about the Oregon wild. I didn't know about the insurrection. I knew nothing that had happened. And so it was definitely an overwhelming experience.

[E]

Anyhow, you eventually adjusted to your new situation, having been summoned back into the body, and now we're on the ski trip.

[B]

Okay, so. Ski trip. Okay, so for the ski trip. So the first half, I spent it alone on the ski slope with my friends, and they were learning how to ski and snowboard, and I was learning how to ski and snowboard, and my friend's dad actually took me up the bunny hill and was like, showing me how to ski. And as I was skiing, I was crashing, and I ended up going backwards at one point and falling really hard. And it was really difficult. But as I was starting to get it, I felt thought, wow, maybe I'm starting to access Tristan's muscle memory or something, because I don't know how it works. So I'm thinking, wow, okay, that was really good. Maybe I'm tapping into something of his and that the body has some sort of memory of it. And then about after most of the day had gone by and I practiced and done my thing, everybody else kind of scattered off. And so I laid down on a picnic bench right by the lodge and I brought him into the body. And then he.

[E]

And then where had he been the.

[B]

Whole time he'd been in? It's sort of like when we leave the body, we enter, like, this fourth dimensional state where he tends to go upstream to this place in his childhood where he spent a lot of time that was very spiritually powerful for him. And I do the same. I go to, like, my childhood home where I came into the body first with Tristan. And so we go to these separate places, and then when we want to go get the other person, we'll actually meditate, go there, maybe talk for a little bit, and then we hug, and then the other person will pull them into the body. And so that's kind of how we do it. So he was out, he was upstream, we like to say. And I guess it could also be, like, interpreted as, like, the field of consciousness. And. Yeah, I don't know where it is. It's inner. It's. It's a strange place. And it's just as vivid as real life. It's just as real. It's beautiful. It's wonderful. So it's an interesting place. But for the ski trip, I brought him into the body, and then he was overjoyed.

[F]

Yeah, because I hadn't skied since I was 18. And one of the interesting facts about this is that she had never seen me ski.

[E]

Now, for clarity, once again, how old are you, Tristan?

[F]

The body's 38.

[E]

Body's 38. And so we could say, even though there were five missing years, you're 38?

[F]

Yeah, well, I like to say that I have 33 years of experience on planet Earth, and she's got 16 years of experience on planet Earth.

[E]

So, yeah, so we have a 16 year old and a 33 year old soul inhabiting this body. Just for clarity for our viewers. Okay, let's return now to the ski slope.

[B]

Well, do you want to go into it?

[F]

Okay, yeah, yeah. So basically I was excited. I was like, I get to be a kid again. I hadn't skied since I was 18 and I never got the chance to go skiing as an adult. So from age 22 till just recently, I hadn't been skiing. So she never got to experience me skiing with the body. So this was a new experience for the both of us. But as soon as I got the body, I felt great. It took me a little bit to shake off what we call spirit sickness. When you first come into the body after being away, it's almost like you're really weak and you can't control the body very well and you have to kind of shake it off and really get into the arms and the legs. So after I had shaken it off, I went for it. I just went straight to the top of the mountain and took on a black diamond, just like I did when I was 18.

[B]

And I just want to add, when he took over the body, I had my first realization because it was almost scary because the body recognized him in a way that it didn't. I don't know. All of a sudden it was like his soul just flowed into all of the muscles and the muscles just started responding, responding to him. And it was like, whoa, whoa, this, this isn't my body.

[F]

Like, this is.

[B]

This is really weird. And so I started feeling, like, really, really weird. And then it took me from the bottom of the ski slope to the picnic tables. It took me five minutes on skis to navigate over there. And meanwhile, when he took over the body, he traversed that distance in like a few seconds. Like, he had so much skill and muscle memory and it just was. It was shocking. And then I spent the day on the bunny hill, and he went right to a black diamond. And I was just nervous and scared of the bunny hill. So, like, to suddenly be at the top of a mountain and then like, he's just like, okay, we're gonna do it was terrifying. So I was really, really scared. But you can, you can go on.

[F]

Well, okay, so I went down the mountain. I was enjoying it. I was going as fast as I could. I was pushing the body. It was just like I was 18 again. It felt great. The muscles were a little bit weaker. I couldn't keep it up as long as I didn't have the same stamina, I think. But yeah, I Raced down the mountain, was cutting into it, really enjoying it, hitting moguls, jumps. It was fantastic.

[B]

And I was panicking the entire time. I was absolutely terrified. And then at one point. And I mean, like, really, really terrified, like, scared scared. And then at one point, he was racing down this one section of the mountain, and all of a sudden, I realized I could see and. But my sight. Because, you know, when you're skiing, you have these goggles on and they're tinted. So normally when you're looking through the eyes and you can see, like, the frame of the goggles, you can see the tint of the plastic, all of a sudden, that was gone. And I was seeing, like, the mountain. And I was seeing more than just the mountain. I was seeing, like, around me, like, almost 360. So I was seeing, like, up the mountain, down the mountain, and I was seeing skiers, like, around me. And I was like, what. What is going on? What is going on? And I was like, why? Like, what am I not moving? Like, what's. What's happening? And I was confused. And then I panicked and tried to get into the body.

[F]

From my perspective, I was just skiing, so I didn't. This is something she told me at. When we got to the bottom, I didn't know that she had somehow popped out of the body and was now behind me. I felt her presence behind me and to the right, but I didn't think much of it. But then right after she apparently had this experience, she started panicking, trying to come into the body and trying to, like, really get into it. And I had to. I had to yell at her because we were going really fast at that point, and I was like, you have to get out of the body now or we're going to crash. Because as she was starting to try and take over the legs, they started pizza pying and they were starting to noodle and wobble. And it was clearly almost like a beginner was trying to take over the body and didn't know how to handle what was going on. So I had to yell at her to get out of the body. Which didn't help.

[B]

No.

[F]

Because when we got down to the bottom of the mountain, I was feeling great. I was like, yes, I get to getting to be myself, getting to ski. I felt in my element. And I was like, all right, well, we're at the chairlift, so. And there's people around, so I'll just give you the body. So I dropped the body on her, and then she just started crying. And I realized that I Maybe had not handled that very well that I was so excited to ski that I kind of ignored how she might be feeling or if this was going to be scary. So. Yeah, and I felt absolutely guilty. I was, I was, I was devastated. So you wanna.

[B]

Yeah, I broke down. I, like, it was, it was overwhelming. Like, not only was the out of body experience just like shocking, but also like, I had never felt Tristan's mindset like that before where he was so aggressive and so like masculine and. Yeah, I'm gonna hit all the jumps and I'm gonna do this and. And it was like this very physical and also like I never knew him as a child or as a, as a teenager. So this was. It was like he kind of reverted to that state. So he felt like a stranger. And it was like almost like I didn't know him. I didn't know him like this or know that he could do this. And so it was really scary and I was emotionally overwhelmed. So I just started crying in the line for the chairlift. And then we did like another run and it was a little bit more diplomatic.

[F]

Yeah, I felt really bad. So I was like, well, we can.

[B]

You know, I'll let you ski a.

[F]

Little bit and then I'll ski a little bit. And I was very gentle and I was like, yeah, you're doing a great job. You know, pizza pie, french fry, you know, you know, be careful, do this.

[B]

That was, that was nicer.

[F]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I felt really bad.

[B]

And then afterwards, like, because we only got to do like that one last run, we went to like return the skis, do the snow boots. And then again, I was with, around my friend's family and some of their family knows, some of them don't. And so Tristan decided to leave. And so he meditated. He left the body. And I was so overwhelmed by the experience that I didn't bring him back to the body for three days. I just left him out, you know.

[E]

And he's upstream at this point, as you use that.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[E]

So there's a distinction between being out of the body and for Tristan, going upstream to a childhood place that he loved, or you going back to a childhood space that you remembered and have fond memories of. That's different than being out of your body on the ski slope where you have 360 degree vision of this three dimensional world.

[B]

Exactly. It's like the difference between still being here but being detached from the body and being outside of it in this material plane versus when we leave the body, we're going to an afterlife realm or some sort of astral or somewhere. And the other person has to actually come and get you to bring you into the body. And they can't just come in on.

[E]

Their own because that's what you started to do. You came back on your own into the body on the ski slope.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I was having like an out of body experience and then I was like, where's the body? You know, like that panic and then, I mean, I was like, I need to feel it, I need to feel it. And then immediately like, you know, I like snapped into the body and started to like push into the, into the muscles, into the body. And I could see through the goggles again. And, you know, I was panicking. And then that's when Tristan was like, you need to get out of the body now or we're going to crash.

[E]

Because he's going like 50 miles an hour.

[B]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I was like, I don't know, I didn't like, I was not going. I never went that fast on the bunny slope. So I was like, I don't know what to do. And so, yeah, I was a mess. I was an absolute mess.

[E]

Is this the first time you've had that sort of out of body experience in the 3D world but not in your body?

[B]

The only other time that's happened that was similar that I can relate it to is when I first entered Tristan's body. And this is like a pre birth memory and I was like some sort of ball of light or something and I was outside his body and I was watching him and his ex hugging at the top of the stairs. And then I felt this magnetic pull and I was like pulled into his body. That's like my early childhood memory. And I think we may have mentioned it on the last interview, I think, especially mine, I think, which was like the second one. That's the only thing I can relate because in that memory I also could see in almost a 360 view of everything and I could see everything with such incredible detail. So, yeah, that's the only experience I can relate it to.

[E]

So I guess one thing I want to make clear is that we're talking about two distinct experiences, one of which we could call astral travel and the other we could call an out of body experience.

[B]

Exactly.

[E]

And they're very different.

[B]

Yeah, very different. Yep. Yeah, it definitely, definitely. And then Tristan ended up having an out of body experience just last month, because I got like, after I had this experience, I got really into understanding it more And I was like, well, because it was really interesting because while I was out of the body, he still had the body. So most cases I've heard of out of body experiences, you know, if. Because they only have one soul. Like when they leave, the body's not doing anything. You know, it's asleep on the bed, it's laying there, it's in the hospital room. And they're looking at their body versus the body I was attached to was still going down the mountain. And it was like it was being piloted by somebody else. So that made it interesting. But then. So I wanted to know, hey, what could we do both get out of the body? Could we spend time having an out of body experience together? And what would that be like? What would it be like to. What would happen to the body? And all these questions. So I started looking up and doing research on out of body experiences. And we started practicing different protocols and techniques to forcefully have out of body experiences. And then. Do you want to tell us or. Yeah, you should tell us, Dallas. I talk to him.

[F]

Okay. Yeah. So I ended up having an out of body experience. And it's interesting because I didn't necessarily. When she got down to the bottom of the mountain, when we got down to the bottom of the mountain and I gave her the body, there was. And she told me what had happened, I had a really hard time believing her because I didn't experience it. The entire time I was skiing, I was in the body, I was going downhill. I didn't see anything strange. And here she was now telling me about it and sharing this memory of being out of body. And to me it was like, really, like really, really? You actually had this? This actually happened? And I had trouble believing her. And then something similar happened. So a month later, after we'd done all this research and we were practicing it daily, all of a sudden we were really tired from work, we were exhausted, and we had this dream where it was sort of like a falling dream. We were in our place, in our home. And then the home sort of started to fall over, and you could feel that falling sensation. And then we both woke up, but then immediately went back to sleep. When we went back to sleep, I realized that I was dreaming. I looked outside and I saw leaves on the trees. And I'm like, it's winter. Why would there be leaves on the trees? That doesn't make sense. And then I went, oh, I'm dreaming. And then immediately I went into the out of body protocol and I started lifting out of the body and all Of a sudden I heard this almost like an organic Velcro or a whooshing sound or something. It was really intense and loud, but I don't know if I necessarily heard it with my ears. It was like a vibration or something and I could feel like my entire upper body was tingling and vibrating. And I pulled out of the body just a little bit and I noticed that she wasn't coming with me. I could feel like that I could feel her energy, her energy body or something and it was still in the body and I was only like halfway out. The legs weren't out yet and my whole upper body was vibrating. And then I also noticed that there was some sort of resonance between our two souls or energy bodies. And so I was like, okay, if she's not coming with me, I'm going to go back in the body. So I just went back in and yeah, that was the extent of my out of body experience.

[E]

So you got about halfway up?

[F]

Yeah, I got about halfway up.

[E]

Did you have the 360 degree vision?

[F]

Yeah, it was very strange. I was still like halfway. So I had. Yeah, it was really weird. It was like a sight but not like a normal sight. It was not as tunnel visioned, it was more expansive. And also I was really intent on feeling the body too. So I felt like I could feel energy. It was very strange. I could feel her soul in the body. I could feel each part resonating and the whole body was just vibrating. It was very strange.

[E]

Well, at this point it's fair to say you've probably been in and out of the body hundreds of times.

[F]

Yeah, that's true.

[E]

But normally not having an out of body experience, but rather going into. When you go out of the body, normally you just go into a meditative state or upstream.

[F]

Exactly, exactly. It's different. We're leaving this plane, this density, we're going somewhere else versus being here still, but just being outside of the body as a soul. So yeah, that's the big difference. It's really fascinating.

[E]

So now the two of you are still experimenting with techniques for leaving the body and having this out of body experience within the three dimensional realm.

[B]

Yeah, we're still playing around with it. And also I just want to add, I didn't believe him when he came back into the body. He was like, I left the body, I got out, I was halfway out but I realized, you know, you weren't coming with me. And I was exhausted and tired and I just, I didn't care in that moment and I didn't realize he was lifting out. So I was just laying there and I was like, what is going on? Because my entire upper body, the physical body was, was vibrating. It felt like every cell in the body was like. So I felt the vibration. So I believe him when he says he got out. It's just I didn't experience it. I was laying there trying to sleep in a groggy, half awake state. So it was really strange.

[E]

Well, the other thing you alluded to here is the idea that you can be in a dream space together. You can have a shared dream.

[B]

Yeah, we share dream spaces all the time. Sometimes one person can dream and the other person doesn't, and then they'll, like, when we wake up, we'll often share our dreams because we'll either we have a shared dream, we'll remember different pieces of it because we'll have different perspective on the dream, or we'll have certain elements of the dream that resonated or, I don't know, maybe spoke to us more than other parts. So we can kind of get an idea of a little bit more of the dream by talking to each other afterwards. And it's taken us a while. I don't know if our dream spaces had to adjust to it or something because when Tristan first came back to the body, oh my God, our dreams were so chaotic. It was like we were trying to, like the dreams, like different elements were getting placed and it was like some pieces were me, some pieces were him. And it was like. It was like a really chaotic thing. And the other thing that we had to work on, which is funny because it actually happened on the way here too, is that one person can fall asleep before the other person, which is a really weird sensation because all of a sudden, you know, I feel his presence. He's there. And then all of a sudden he just conks out and he goes unconscious. And I feel like his thoughts just like disappear. And then things kind of get like, really weird like this. It's almost like I'm starting to hallucinate and the body becomes like, like hard to move, like paralyzed. And so like on the way here, like, Tristan kept falling asleep on the plane and I did not want to fall asleep, so I had to keep bumping him and going, hey, hey, you're falling asleep. You're falling asleep.

[F]

Yeah, because I actually started dreaming on the plane and so I'll start to start dreaming and then all of a sudden I'll like, energetically or something. She comes into it and is like, hey, you're dreaming. You're dreaming. Wake up, wake up. And then I'll be like, oh, okay, yeah, I'm sorry about that. And you know, that happened a couple.

[B]

Times because I was listening to an audiobook and he kept falling asleep.

[F]

Yeah, it was. So that's. That's another unusual thing. I think it's really cute. I love it when she falls asleep first because it's just this nice. I don't know, it's like when you're laying in bed with a loved one and they're asleep, it's this very calming presence. You suddenly realize you're alone, but at the same time they're there and they're vulnerable. I don't know. I've always enjoyed that sensation.

[E]

Well, it suggests, though, that when one of you is awake and the other one is asleep, at least for. For Anika, that's not so comfortable. She wants you to be awake, Tristan, when she's awake.

[B]

I'm comfortable when he falls asleep, but just not on the plane while I'm trying to do something. You know what I mean? Like, if I'm trying to listen to a book and he starts falling asleep, it's like, hey, hey, wake up, wake up. Because if I don't wake him up, then the hallucinations kind of start because it's like he's starting to dream and I'm starting to hear some of the dreams or experience some of the dream. And the same is true for you.

[F]

Yeah. So if she falls asleep, it's cute, but then after about a minute or so, it's like, yeah, there's visual hallucinations, there's weird stuff. It's like a hypnagogic kind of thing. And you're just kind of taking it in and it can be a little nerve wracking because you're like, oh, man, I'm hearing the dream, I'm hearing their stuff. And there's shapes and geometry and all sorts of weird stuff. So, yeah, we tend to. And then it's really hard not to fall asleep with them too, after they've gone into that state. Because then if you start to pay attention to what they're doing and you start getting sucked into it as well. So all of a sudden I'll end up asleep too.

[E]

Now, what about the use of entheogens or other intoxicants or altered states of consciousness induced through substance? How does that work? If you take, let's just say, hypothetically, cannabis or alcohol, and one of you is stoned, how does the other one feel?

[B]

Okay, I'm really Glad you asked that, because when Tristan came back to the body, I was a really heavy weed smoker. I smoked marijuana pretty often. I had a vape. And he had never done weed in his life.

[F]

Yeah, I had avoided drugs my whole life, so this. It was a new experience for me. But go ahead.

[B]

So that was actually one of the first things that really threw us off because it was not what we expected. We expected that if we are smoking or intoxicated, specifically marijuana, alcohol, we're both really kind of drunk, I would say. Or one of us can be a little bit more sober, or they're fighting the alcohol a little bit more.

[F]

More.

[B]

But when it came to weed, there was something weird, and that was that one of us could be completely stoned and, like, goofy and laughy and, you know, everything that you think of, like, total, total stoner kind of stuff, you know, and the other person was not. And they were clear, and they were. They were almost even more clear than they would be normally. And we were like, what's going on? And so early on, we were just randomly trading the high back and forth and like.

[F]

Yeah, I don't know. I didn't understand how that could happen in the brain. I had done a little bit more neuroscience research, and I was like, this shouldn't be happening. How can this be happening? What's going on? Because it should affect us both equally. So, yeah, I didn't know what the.

[B]

Method of action was, but over time, we started to learn something, and that was that it depended on your frequency of consciousness that the marijuana allowed you to. If you used it for meditation, you could achieve higher frequencies of consciousness. And so one person could be vibrating higher and have this clarity and almost have, like, this spiritual insight, whereas the other person might not be. And then we learned that if we both focused on that frequency, we meditated, we could both achieve that frequency. And that's when we started having really intense spiritual experiences, because we realized that this was something we could control on and off weed by meditating and achieving these higher densities of consciousness. So. And the best part was, is when we got into those higher states, we could switch the body like it was nothing. Like, sometimes it's a struggle. Sometimes it's like we're fighting over it. And if we're especially. We're in lower vibrations, it's like the body is kind of shaking, and, you know, there's glitches and things. But in these states, it was like, you just. The switches were just so smooth, and it was just. And we had this spiritual Insight. And then, you know, over time, over, like, we don't smoke anymore because it.

[F]

Comes with a cost.

[B]

While it gives you that spiritual insight and you can use it as to experience higher densities, you're going to end up. It also makes going into lower densities a lot easier. And that's why people get like, paranoid and they get scared or they have panic attacks. It's because that vibration, you have to really control it and know what you're doing and know how to meditate your way out of things like paranoia and get into those higher densities. Otherwise you are going to crash and end up in those lower densities. So much more easier. It almost makes it easier to get into higher states and lower states. So you have to be really careful to which one you're in and know.

[F]

It's also really helpful that we can tell each other. I can be like, hey, you're in a lower density. You're in a lower state of consciousness. Your frequency is off. And then I can actually kind of use my soul energetically to help pull her up into a higher frequency.

[B]

Yeah, that's a move we do often because, like, if he ends up in a lower frequency, I can actually, like. I don't know, it's like I can move my energy through his chakras and cause him to elevate and unblock things. And it gets really weird.

[F]

Yeah. And the other thing too is when she goes into higher density states, and this goes for either of us, one of us can end up in, say, fifth density or even sixth density. And then it becomes harder and harder to understand the concepts that they're relaying to you because it's a different way of thinking and a different state of consciousness. So it's sort of like they become Ra in terms of the law of one, that kind of material. They become like their higher self. And suddenly they're able to tell you things about consciousness and reality that you just don't have access to here in a lower state. And I remember asking her question after question after question after question. And I couldn't quite understand the concepts. It didn't match my reality. So she was like in a different reality state of consciousness. But that doesn't make it not true either. It's like they just. When you're in that state, they have a different understanding of reality and really weird coincidences, synchronicities start happening. And it just really, really strange. I say that in third density.

[B]

Yeah. And this is something that everybody can do. The densities are real, you know, and this isn't just the law of one or like this. It's talked like Jesus talks about it. Jesus talks about like fourth density. He uses parables to talk about it. And, you know, he talks about fourth and fifth density. And then you have Krishna talking about fifth and sixth density in the Bhagavad Gita. So, like these. It's all a part of. It's all in the spiritual works.

[E]

I mean, Jesus actually said fourth density.

[B]

No, he didn't say fourth density. No, no, this is, this is my interpretation, my distortion, because I resonated really well with the law of one. So everybody's talking about the same thing. They're just talking about it through a different lens. And one of the most difficult things is when you're in a higher density is trying to communicate with those who are in a lower frequency because they won't understand what you're saying. It will cause confusion. It doesn't seem to match the reality they're experiencing. And so that's something that we've had to learn to work on, is how to communicate. And Jesus was great because he's talking about fourth density things, but he's not saying fourth density. He's not like Ra, where Ra kind of sounds like an engineer or a scientist laying it all out specifically. Whereas Jesus is like giving parables and doing things that consciousnesses who are in third density will understand to be able to get to fourth density in the first place. And Krishna is the same way, talking about helping third density, maybe fourth density beings achieve fifth density and understanding even sixth density. So it's all there. It just depends on what works for you and your interpretation of it.

[E]

Okay, now I want to go back to something one of you said earlier. I forget who about chakras. Okay, Yeah, I think it was you, Anika. You said something about you can work with Tristan's chakras.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[E]

So in other words, you share one body, but you each have, because you're separate souls, you each have your own chakras.

[B]

Yes, yes. And we also got a chakra reading from someone in the experiencer community who specializes in reading chakras. And they also confirmed that we had two sets, individual for our souls, two sets of chakras. So that was confirming. But also in these meditative states, if Tristan is having a difficult time, I can feel his chakra, and then I can use my energy to sort of flow into it and unblock it and help him. Do you want to describe it?

[F]

Yeah, so. So it's cool because we even got it on video this one time. And so it's really incredible. Like I'll be there and I'll be kind of nervous or something and then she'll be like, hey, your fourth chakra is blocked. And when it comes to chakras, it's very much a part of your consciousness. It's very much the frame of mind that you're stuck in as much as it is this physical part in the body that corresponds to the chakra. And so all of a sudden I'll feel this incredible release or this energy flow upwards or one chakra will. All of a sudden I'll just feel like this overwhelming emotion and it's incredible. And then she'll pull me up into higher densities of consciousness through the crown chakra. It's incredible. There's no words to really describe that sensation of this explosive energy and transformation into higher densities. It's incredible.

[E]

So can you work with her chakras as well?

[F]

Yes, because if she's struggling with something, and that depends, if she's struggling with something in her personal life that is giving her trouble and she has some sort of blockage, I can do the same and help assist her energy and push my energy into her chakras and help her to open up. Because when you get into those higher states, you can very easily see the lower states and what the problem is that they're running into. And so you can then help them overcome that by highlighting it and pushing your energy through.

[E]

I guess it's fair to say that because in effect you were forced to come to terms with this idea of two souls in one body. It's not as if it's something you deliberately chose, it just happened.

[F]

No, I had to contend with it. That's what I like to say. I was an atheist. I didn't believe any of this. I thought chakra is garbage. I really was anti spiritual completely for the majority of my life. But our experience together completely transformed my understanding of everything, even chakras. That's something that I have come to terms with do exist because I can feel them. I know when she's working with them. I understand when I have a blockage in which one and she can read which one that. So it's like it's not something that I get to choose, it's something I have to contend with. Just like you have to contend with a brick wall that's in front of you or you have to contend with certain aspects of your life that you can't change. I've had to contend with the spiritual reality that exists, which is, I would.

[E]

Think, a great gift.

[F]

Yes, a great gift. It's been a. Been absolutely transformative in every aspect of my life. I am so incredibly grateful that she came into my life, that we've had this experience together. It has helped us ascend and to experience and spend more time in higher densities and embody our higher selves. It's the mission, while we're here to do. And so, yeah, I am unbelievably grateful for this experience.

[E]

Well, before we close this interview, I want to get into one other issue, which is your, Tristan, your memories going back to early childhood of some sort of non human presence that's been interacting with you. Some people might say, oh, you just had night terrors. You get paralyzed at night, feel this terror. That's one of the interpretations of UFO abduction kind of experience. And I'm not clear that you ever felt you were abducted, but there's been this presence in your life.

[F]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, people might.

[F]

And if they're not ready to accept this reality, that's fine. And they might say, oh, it's a night chair, it's sleep paralysis, it's hypnagogic, that's fine. Some people aren't ready to address this greater spiritual reality and the reality that there are beings interacting with us. But I know that it was real, that even if these were altered states of consciousness, that I was having these interactions. And so from a very early age, I was terrified of the movie E.T. because these E.T. beings, which I think was somewhat of a screen memory, they would show up in my bedroom or in the house. And as soon as they did, I could feel their presence. And that's the unmistakable calling card, is that their consciousness. You can feel it through walls. You can feel it through everything. It permeates the area. It's like having a whale in the house. It's like, you can't ignore something that huge suddenly shifting into, through the house. It's overwhelming. And as soon as I would feel that it was almost like every, like it would trigger my body, I would feel absolutely terrified and panic. And then if I saw them, if I walked out into the living room or they came into the bedroom, I would end up paralyzed. And so suddenly I couldn't move and I couldn't do anything. And then I could feel them approaching and approaching, approaching. And I'd become so terrified that then I'd black out. And then I'd wake up in my bed in the morning and there were times where I was like, you Know, I have met vague memories of these states where I was, like, on my grandmother's porch, frozen, standing up, and the beings were around and. Yeah, and my parents didn't understand why I was so terrified of E.T. i mean, to the point of where I couldn't look at the box, I couldn't look at any images. If it came on tv, I'd, you know, any up. Having to hide. It was overwhelming to a point where it wasn't normal. And over time, because these experiences happened all the way into my 20s. So it's not like, oh, I grew out of this. It was constant. It was a constant presence in my life. Probably a little bit more common when I was a child. But as I got older, I kind of made my peace and I kind of even became friends with these beings on some level. And I just accepted that they were friends. They never hurt me. They never. Yeah, I was terrified of them. But that's on me, you know, that's my state that I was in. But they never hurt me. At most, I felt like they tickled me, which is such a weird thing to say. But sometimes I would feel these long fingers or something like tickling my body. And it was so strange. There's so few people. I've even told this. It feels weird saying it, but, yeah, it was never malicious. And when I was younger, I was also really sick and I also had health conditions. And so I don't know if they helped me overcome these or if I was abducted. They helped me with that. I don't know for certain, but it definitely feels like a friendly interaction.

[E]

Is there communication? Do you have any exchanges of any kind with them?

[F]

I think the limiting factor has always been my state of consciousness. Being in such a fierce state and wrapped up in my own thoughts. If anything, it was probably to not be afraid. But at the same time, no direct communication. Except Annika has maybe had communication. So I'm going to pass it to you.

[B]

Yeah, so I've had, like. So I've heard the stories of Tristan's experiences and also. Wait, you have to finish the one thing. So the writing.

[F]

Okay. I wasn't sure if I should mention that.

[B]

No, no, it's really cool.

[F]

Okay. So. Yeah, so I used to have these dreams where I'd go to this alternate reality and I'd dream the same dream, and it'd be the same characters, it'd be the same place over and over and over again. And one of the beings there was ET But I made friends or something. I don't really know These were dreams. But one of the things was it kind of gave me this. It opened up my mind to other dimensions and the understanding of it. And so I kind of made this giant map and I wrote this story about it. And then I signed it with my name saying by Tristan. And then I got to the next line.

[B]

I was like, well, I'd really like.

[F]

To add ET's signature here because I felt like he helped me understand this somehow. And so I just kind of sat there and I was like, well, how would he sign it? And so all of a sudden I was like, I think it's like this. And so I started writing the name, but it was not in English. It was just these circles and dots and lines.

[E]

How old were you when this happened?

[F]

I was probably 10, maybe 12 or 13.

[E]

Early on.

[F]

Early on.

[E]

A young child.

[F]

Yes, a young child. And so I wrote this script and signed his name. And then years, just recently, in the last year, Danny Sheehan, he came out and he apparently he went into a skiff at one point and he got access to classified information where he got to see some of the writing on some of the crafts or some of the hieroglyphs or whatever you want to call it, the script. And he managed to smuggle it out of the skiff. He wrote it down. And so he posted on the Internet that writing, and it looks identical to the writing on that paper.

[E]

You saved that from when you were 10 years old?

[F]

Yes, yes. It disappeared for a time in my life. My dad had it for a bit and then just out of the blue, he. He sent it all to me last year. So I got to go through it all again and it was like, oh, things are starting to make sense. I've always had these interactions and this was something real. So it was. Yeah, yeah.

[D]

Well, do you think there's any connection.

[E]

Whatsoever between these childhood experiences and then your adult experience of having Annika's soul enter your body and now you're sharing it with her?

[F]

Yeah. I would say, like Anika and I understand that we chose to do this before we came into, before we incarnated that pre birth, we had pre birth agreements. We wanted to learn, we wanted to. We were ready for this. This was something that we chose to do before we came into the body and before I was even born. And so I think that they have been helping or assisting with that process and especially helping whatever the body needed to be able to handle this or undertake it, or even if I had a hard time as a soul, like attaching to the Body. I don't know. Yeah, I feel like they have definitely. It's all tied together.

[E]

So there's a sense in which you and Annika are not totally alone. You've got helpers.

[F]

Yes, absolutely.

[B]

Yep. Definitely. Definitely. And I've like, is it okay?

[F]

Yeah, it's fine.

[A]

Go for it.

[B]

So I've gotten to experience a little bit of his beings, too, in that I've had a few times where I've ended up in that dream state. And I had never experienced it until he came back into the body. And then I started interacting with. With these beings to some extent every now and then. Like. Like I've had them break into dreams. I've had them be a presence in the room. And like Tristan describes, when they're in the room or in the house, it's, it's, it is. It's like having a whale suddenly show up in your house. And it's like making the whale noises so you can, like, really feel it. And you're like. And you're like, oh, my God. And it is. It's overwhelming. It just overwhelms every. Everything in the area. And you feel almost like your consciousness can get lost in this sea of just everything. And so we've had a couple experiences where they've been in the house or moved through the house, and you can totally feel them. And I've even had dreams where I had an interaction in a dream once where all of a sudden, and it's so easy to tell, like, I've gotten really used to knowing when, like, I'm having an interaction in a dream, because you feel their presence. It's overwhelming. The dream feels vividly real. It's not like a normal dream at all. It's not like, oh, something weird is going on in my daily life. It's like they're there. Like, you just know it. And so I was like, outside, and I was like, in the dream, in this dream state. And then all of a sudden, a UFO showed up like a flying saucer, and it was moving through the clouds, and it had, like, these white lights on it. And as soon as I saw it, that overwhelming presence just hit my consciousness. And it wasn't malicious. It wasn't benevolent. It was just this overwhelming presence. And then the communication that I got was. And it's going to sound weird, but the closest thing I can describe to this communication was, you know, you are. I don't want to say like boots on the ground, but, like, you're here to help others. You're here to Bridge the gap. Something like that. Something, something. I don't know. It's so hard to translate this. Purely telepathic communication. And the dream's imagery was important, and it just like. And then all of a sudden I woke up and I was like. That presence was still there. Do you know what I mean? It doesn't. Like, you wake up and that presence doesn't leave as soon as you wake up. It's still there for a bit and then it fades. So it was. Or you can feel it moving away from you, like going through the house and leaving. So, yeah, I've gotten to experience it.

[E]

So the message is that you are on a mission of.

[B]

Yes, yes. To help others. To help them understand that they're God, their source, they're divine, that they're immortal, that they're a soul, not just a body. That the way forward is love, compassion, acceptance, not victimizing and blaming. Or it's about. So taking responsibility and accepting who you are and to look inward at the self. So, absolutely, yeah, that's definitely been the message.

[E]

Last time you were here in Albuquerque, you brought your guitar. This time, I see you've got a new instrument.

[B]

It's a guitar, Lele. So it's a ukulele and a guitar.

[F]

Combined into one, which is fitting, considering our situation. Two things in one.

[E]

So I understand you've written some new songs as well.

[B]

We have. We'd like to play also the one we played last time as well, because we've had a lot of time to practice, and so we figured we'd play that as well. Probably start with that one. But, yeah, we wrote some new songs, too.

[E]

Well, I'm sure our viewers will love to hear them.

[B]

Okay, great. Ready?

[F]

Yeah, all set.

[A]

Okay. All yours. All right, here we go. And I didn't have no folks to guide my soul A child so wild Them love left me alone. Bless you so. And can you believe I'm here with you? And you're here with me? And can you feel me relying on you as you're lying on me? I don't know how but you're hearing my sound and I don't know how I am and all them kids where they grew when bloom and me. You're the la. Tried leaving town but my town, well, it left me or so it seem can you believe I'm here with you? And you, you're here with me and can you feel me relying on you as you're relying on me? And I don't know how but you're hearing my sound and I don't know how I ever live without you and for my sin I reckon I had to atone I forgive you. Sky fell in in the water Washed my bones down the road.

[B]

And can.

[A]

You believe I'm here with you? And you're here with me and can you feel me relying on you as you're relying on me and I don't know how but you're here hearing my sound that I don't know how.

[B]

And.

[A]

A cat skill eagle swooping within a gorge Got a la who still flies higher than a desert hawk and soars red blue for wonder where you read that and can you believe I'm here with you when you're here with me? And can you feel me relying on you as you're relying on me? I don't know how but you're hearing my sound and I don't know how I ever live without you.

[F]

All right, Together.

[B]

Okay, let's do it.

[A]

Ready to dance?

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[F]

Ready?

[A]

And I don't know how How I can feel this way do it again. You can do it. Okay. All right, I'll start over. And I don't know how I could feel this way and I don't know if it's you or the time of day that's making me stray.

[F]

And can.

[A]

You believe I'm here with you and you're here with me and can you feel me relying on you as you're relying on me I don't know how but you're hearing my sound and I don't know how I ever.

[F]

That was pretty good.

[E]

That was lovely. Absolutely lovely. Even the little. I don't know if it was a mistake, but it worked out beautifully.

[F]

Yeah, it was good. I liked it. I messed up there a little bit at the end. I thought I was on the first verse when I was on the last, but, yeah, worked out nice.

[B]

All right, what do you want to do next?

[F]

We could try that one again. So that way you have two takes.

[E]

You don't need two takes. That was perfect.

[A]

Oh, that was perfect.

[F]

Okay.

[A]

All right.

[F]

All right. So the next song is one that Annika wrote to tease me because I was a lifelong vegetarian, and when I came back to the body, she was eating meat and, I mean, hot wings, burgers, the full deal. And I was pretty devastated, and it took some time to adjust.

[A]

Well, okay.

[B]

Well, to be fair, I, like, then went vegan, so.

[F]

Yeah, you came around to it.

[B]

You came around to it because I realized you had a lot of good points and. And I also didn't want to torture you every time I ate something.

[F]

Yeah, it wasn't pleasant.

[B]

So, yeah, this song came from us kind of teasing each other about the different diets. So. Okay, here we go.

[F]

All yours.

[A]

Well, I'm sorry for reading me but the crab, his heart shuffled into my mouth I tried to assist don't know. But the butter didn't help him out. It was awful. So I had no choice but to swallow him down and now he's inside me and he's not coming out. How could you do this to me, babe? A creature, he had a name. I feel so bad that he's gone. This vegan will never recover. Maybe you will, maybe I won't maybe.

[B]

You will, maybe I won't maybe you.

[A]

Will, maybe I won't. Well, I'm sorry for eating these. Are you? But the cow you moved into my mouth. I tried to evade but the government locked him down Likely.

[F]

Sorry.

[A]

So I had no choice but to swallow him down. And now he's inside me and he's not coming out. How could you do this to me, babe? Sorry. Are you that creature, he had a name. I feel so bad that he's gone. This vegan will never recover.

[B]

Maybe you will, maybe I won't maybe you will, maybe I won't maybe you.

[A]

Will, maybe I won't. I'm sorry for eating me. But that pig, he waddled right into my mouth.

[F]

I don't think so.

[A]

I tried.

[B]

I told him to get.

[A]

Did you. But the bread roll blocked his route. That's horrible.

[B]

So I had no choice but to.

[A]

Swallow him down and now he's inside me and he's not coming.

[F]

Awful.

[A]

How could you do this to me, babe? That creature, he had a name. Get out of here. I feel so bad that he's gone. This vegan will never recover.

[B]

Maybe you will, maybe I won't maybe you will, maybe I won't maybe you.

[A]

Will, maybe I won't. Sorry for eating me but the chicken, she flew into my mouth I opened up wide. Oh. But the hot sauce weighed her down. That's horrible. So I had no choice but to swallow her down. Now she's inside me and she's not coming. Oh, how could you do this to me, babe? I mean, I'm sorry. That creature, she had a name. I feel so bad that she's gone. This vegan will never recover. Maybe you will, maybe I won't maybe you will, maybe I won't maybe you will.

[F]

Maybe I will.

[A]

I forgive you.

[F]

That's a fun one.

[E]

Yeah, that was very cute. But I I'm guessing you go back and forth so quickly. Is that hard to do? Did it take a lot of practice?

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

When we first started playing this song.

[F]

That part came naturally. And, yeah, that took some time. So we weren't stepping on each other's toes or accidentally glitching. Because if we mess up these switches, we can cause some feedback in the brain that causes shaking or ticks and things like that. The biggest challenge is when we first started playing guitar together because we had really bad. I think they're called functional seizures. So they're not like full blown, light induced seizures, but they were really bad to the point of where there's like, click and then we get disoriented and confused, and it's almost like the brain is overwhelmed. So we had to get really good at stepping out of the brain and out of the body so that the other person could come in and just treat. Just trusting in the process of it working. And that took a long time to do.

[B]

Yeah, the glitches are really scary. And we had most of them at the beginning. So just to kind of echo, what you're saying is like, yeah, they were pretty bad. But those fast switches are actually the most fun because it's like we really are coming over top of each other and pushing that limit as to how far we can switch on top of each other. And it's really great because I can feel feel him and feel his face and feel his expression. So it's really hard not to laugh because I can sense he's like, he's devastated or that he's like. I can feel his emotions, and I love that. So it's a lot of fun.

[F]

Yeah. Music brings us closer together, and it's a dance. That's really what it is.

[E]

Well, the other thing I find kind of amazing is you've got only one set of vocal cords here.

[F]

Yeah, that's.

[A]

That's true.

[F]

That's true. Yeah. I don't know how that works. We just somehow manage it. I don't know. It's. As soon as I come in, it's like, this is how I've always talked. This is how I was talked when I was a kid. And then she knows how to. She does something with the vocal cords and she can speak, so it's really something else. I love her voice, so I love it when we play together.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[D]

So you have one more.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. And so this song is. I don't. We will get this.

[A]

We will. We will have faith.

[B]

So with this song, this song We. We wrote together when we were unaware that we were together. So what ended up happening is after Tristan came back to the body, I was in denial about him being there, even though I was. And this goes to what Tristan was saying with, like, the functional seizures and the problems we were experiencing, rocking major sensory issues, we were having a really difficult time because we weren't acknowledging each other. We were trying to be like, you know, I'm avoiding you, but how can you avoid somebody who's in your body? You really can't. So we were having a lot of medical problems, and at the same time, there was this undercurrent of emotion that we couldn't ignore. And so I wrote a little bit of the song, he wrote a little bit of the song, and. And together we wrote this song. And the song is about love still finding its way to you, even when you're not incarnated, or love, like, even if that person has become a spirit and has moved on or is somewhere else, their love still finds a way to you. And so that's what this song became. And then later, like, way after, we went back and looked through our songs, and there was this song, and, yeah.

[F]

It'S a really special one, and it was just kind of a way to express our love for each other. And I think a lot of it was maybe because you asked me what happened when you were gone, and I think this may be a part of it, is that some of this song is me describing how my love found Annika while I was gone or how I found her. So, yeah, it's. It's a. It's a nice song.

[B]

Okay. Are you ready?

[A]

Yep.

[F]

You start.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Up where the sky sings on a wisp of a warm wind from a cloud and drop drizzles my heart I can only hope it reaches you on your lips I pray it quenches you as then you'll be feeling me too for my love will always find you up where leaves dangle as sunny green tassels through the trees Aubrey's carries my heart I can only hope it reaches you on your cheeks I pray it could caresses you as then you'll be feeling me too for my love will always find you with every which way flowers follow and sway with the busy buzzing of beats my heart I can only hope it reaches you on your nose I pray they nuz as then you'll be feeling me too for my love will always find you With a.

[F]

Trickle and glurg a stream splashes and.

[A]

Whirls over a crayfish and a dam drips my heart I can only hope it reaches you along your body Trickling down you as then you'll be feeling me too for my love will always find you With On a bump on a log Lives the bugs and the moss Deep in dirt near the roots rest my heart I can only hope it reaches you on your soul I pray it sticks to as then you'll be feeling me too for my love will always find you as twilight sets in and the frog peepers sing the night's fireflies light in my heart I can only hope they reach you in your eyes I pray they shine into as then you'll be feeling me too for my love will always find you as in night, night Night fades to black and the owl's hoot back the From a shooting star showers my heart I can only hope I hope it reaches you through your life I pray it guides you as then you'll be feeling me too for my love will always find you.

[F]

Nice once again.

[E]

It was lovely. And it made me think, though, the story of how you were Tristan. You were absent for five years, and I always had the impression it was Annika who reached out somehow and brought you back. But maybe it came from your end as well.

[F]

It's entirely possible. I mean, there's stuff that we don't know, like our past life agreements. There's things that we have knowings of, but not clear recollections within our memory. So I think, yeah, maybe we planned it, I don't know. But when I left, I was certain I wasn't going to come back. So in many ways, I think as I was dying, these are some of the feelings I had while dying. Like, I like, you're going to take the body, you're going to go on with your life, but my spirit, my soul will still be involved somehow. And that my love will find you. Because I didn't know what was on the other side. I didn't know what to expect. I was an atheist and just at the very last second became spiritual. So for me, and even then, I didn't understand what I was spiritual love. I just knew she was a soul, a person, and that she deserved life and to experience earth and to grow. And that's what I wanted, for her to grow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there were times in my life where I did feel Tristan's presence, where I felt like he kept me safe, or that he was there, but not quite like in the body, that he was somewhere else, but he was, like, nearby or something. And Weird coincidences and synchronicities that would happen. That just kind of felt like it was Tristan saying, I love you, just like spiritually or something. Or he'd send somebody that was very protective of me to help me out or something.

[E]

But at the same time, you were really on your own for five years in an adult body and with the mentality of eight year old.

[B]

Yeah, and it was hard. And I was used, abused, and I had to do everything I could to survive. And it was a challenge every single day. And I was also dealing with the grief of Tristan, which was overwhelming. And when he left the body, it was like a void opened up inside of me. I had never been alone my entire childhood. Up until I was eight years old, I was with. With him. So to suddenly have his presence gone from the body and have the body and experiencing this reality, it was overwhelming. It was incredible. It was shocking. And, yeah, I struggled for a bit. And it wasn't until the end of the five years that I had come to term and made my peace with it and I had accepted his death. And that's when he surprised me. Even though I was the one who got him. When I was in that meditative state where I went to get him, it was so strange. I had experienced ego death. I went through this whole thing, meditating in the middle of my living room after bombarding myself with colors and shapes. And I basically turned my entire apartment into a mini rave trying to. Because I was curious as to what all this stuff was in my brain, the synesthesia. So I was trying to trigger it as much as possible. And then I sat there and I just meditated. Meditated. And all of a sudden I saw these two colors and I realized I was looking at something like souls or something. Like there was my pink colors and then there was Tristan's, but he was farther away or not there or something. And then I just put all of, like, I just reached into that green. And then I don't remember anything beyond that point. I don't have any conscious memory of what happened next. And then. And a few minutes later, because I was keeping track of it on my phone, a few minutes later, he was there. And I was like, oh, my God. And I thought I had broken something. I thought I had meditated so hard that I, you know, something went wrong in the brain or something. And then I was like, oh, my God. I was like panicking. I was panicking. Something felt wrong. I couldn't move as much. And then all of a sudden, Tristan's voice came through. And he's like, well, you should probably lay down. I was like, what just happened? Like, what's. What is this? And I was like, yeah, you're probably right. I should lay down. And so I did. And then right after that, like, there was almost like a break all of a sudden, like, the next day, we accepted for a short while, for a week, that he was back. And I was like, oh, my God, you're back. And this is wonderful. And we watched, like, movies together, and we hung out and we spent time together. And Tristan was trying to winterize my apartment because he was in a panic state of, like, I don't know how I got here, and I feel like there's winter. And he thought he was, like, in the country, back home, and he just, like, he was out of it. And then that lasted about a week where we spent time together.

[F]

Yeah, I was completely out of it. I was just not doing well. I was really struggling. I didn't understand where I was, how I got there. I didn't recognize the apartment. I thought that I was visiting. I must have visited a relative, or I was visiting my daughter in college, or I was visiting my girlfriend. I didn't know what was going on, just that I really loved this person and I wanted to just spend time some. So we had a nice time. But then after that, we both went into denial about it because society doesn't accept this stuff at all. And so we did not accept it either, but we had to contend with it. So there was all these problems of physical problems where glitching out and these little seizures and sometimes really big ones, and then, you know, and just suddenly appearing in different places in the house because the other person would take the body and do something without acknowledging each other. And it was very frustrating, very scary for about nine months. And then I had a dream with my grandmother, which we talked about on the one episode, and we kind of came out of it like, this is real. We have to accept this.

[B]

And in that dream, that was the first song. Like, I was playing that song in the dream. It was a premonition, but it was also.

[F]

Yeah, it's weird because the time travel Y aspects of it, because how can you learn a song in a dream and then later you're playing the song that is a premonition of the dream. It creates this weird.

[E]

Was this a shared dream?

[B]

Yeah, it was a shared dream. So what happened was, is we were walking up to Tristan's grandmother's house, and it was dusk, and it had this element to. It that was, like, very mystical and incredible. And I was walking up the hill singing this song, like, you know, can.

[A]

You believe I'm here with you when.

[B]

You'Re here with me? And as I was singing this song, Tristan was walking next to me. And then we arrived at his grandmother's house. And, like, the stars were, like, beautiful blue. So amazing colors. And then Tristan walked up to his grandmother's house and he put his hand on. I should really let you tell this.

[F]

Yeah. I reached out and I put my hand on her cottage. It was a log cabin. I just said Nana, because she died while I was away. And I was dealing with the grief because I learned that she had died after I came back. So I was in full blown grief over this. I was trying to process my feelings, and I just put my hand and said, I'm sorry I wasn't there for when you passed, Nana. I hope you can forgive me. I love you. I miss you. And then I don't think we maybe mentioned this because we hadn't gotten to that point yet, but I felt E.T. s presence in her house in the dream. So E.T. that being that we talked about, I felt him in the house. And so I didn't want to go in, you know what I mean? Because I knew he was in there. And I was just like, I'm going to stay out here. And then we woke up, which is just super, you know, I don't know what to make of that, but he was there, too. And then we woke up. And then Annika immediately grabbed the guitar and started figuring out the song on the guitar, trying to figure out how to play it. And sure enough, she did, and she recorded it on the phone. And then we just started playing it. And then it developed and furthered and we practiced it and it got better. But that was the big moment where we realized that we had to contend with this, that this was real.

[B]

Yep. Yep. And then here's the second part of the story. We, a year later, ended up going and visiting his childhood home. And we were like, well, let's walk up to your grandmother's house. And it was exactly like the dream. I was walking up there. I was singing the song. You know, I even had like, the, like, the guitar, and it was like, just like singing it, like, happily. And then we. It was like the same twilight feeling. Everything felt mystical. We arrived at the cottage and it was like. It was identical. It was spooky. And we both were feeling like we were experiencing deja vu. And then sure enough, Tristan went and he Put his hand on the cottage. He said his piece, and that, you know, he, you know, loved her and he missed her.

[F]

I said exactly what I said in the dream, except there was one difference, and that was when I put my hand where I did in the dream. There was an acorn. There actually two acorns, but the acorns were fused together, so it was two acorns in one acorn. And it just was. How else do you interpret that? Right where my hand was. And, yeah, it was a double acorn. And I was like, all right. Well, my grandmother, she said hi. That was her way of saying hi. And, yeah, and we had a great trip. And then I had some spiritual awakenings. And that whole trip was weird.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that whole trip was A lot of weird, spiritual stuff happened.

[F]

Yeah. We saw an orb hovering over the lake, at my childhood lake. We heard something, some sort of cloaked being in the woods. I mean, the woods weren't acting normal the entire time we were there. Even the animals were strange. There were just snakes everywhere. The deer weren't, like, spooked. We ended up walking up this path, and there was a buck just laying on the path, and it did not move. And I was like, annika, we got to get around this thing, because this deer isn't acting normal. It's not afraid of us. It's just. And we're, like, talking and conversating. So this should be a weird experience for the deer. But the deer just sat there watching us. So that whole trip, and that's when I had my coming to God realization that I was like, oh, my God, God exists. God is real. And even my mom, she was experiencing it, too. So it wasn't like we were just walking around experiencing these. She said it was the strangest that in her entire life living there, the strangest that place has ever been. So it was a powerful experience.

[E]

Well, it certainly suggests that there are hidden forces that have something to do with. With your situation.

[B]

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And it's been helpful. I mean, everything happens for a reason, and everything has led us to this moment. Everything has led us to having the spiritual understandings that we do and being able to experiment with consciousness and reach higher densities. It's been an amazing journey.

[F]

Yeah, we wouldn't change a thing.

[E]

Well, is there anything else you'd like.

[D]

To add before we conclude this particular episode?

[B]

I don't think so. I think that covers a lot of it.

[F]

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. All good here.

[E]

Well, thank you so much for being here with me in Albuquerque. Once again, it's such a pleasure to be able to reflect back a year after we did our first set of interviews and to see your happy face and growth that you're experiencing. And of course, since you're here, we'll be doing several more.

[B]

Great.

[E]

I know we have a lot more to talk about, so for now, Anika and Tristan, thank you both.

[F]

Thank you so much.

[E]

And for those of you who are watching or listening, thank you. Because at the end of the day, you are the reason that we are here.

[A]

Book three in the new thinking allowed.

[B]

Dialogue series is UFOs and UAP are we really Alone? Now available on Amazon, New Thinking Allowed.

[C]

Is presented by the California Institute for Human Science, a fully accredited university offering distant learning graduate degrees that focus on mind, body and spirit, the topics that we cover here. We are particularly excited to announce new degrees emphasizing parapsychology and the paranormal. Visit their [e-mail].

[D]

You can now download a free PDF.

[C]

Copy of issue number 8 of the.

[D]

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[C]

Go to newthinkingallowed.org.