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When I read the Dao Te Ching, the pages, the words come off the page, they swirl around me, they drop into my heart center and then expand me like a blossom flower.
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Keep watching to learn more for early.
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Access to our videos and live stream events, sign up for our free Weekly newsletter@newthinkingallowed.org New Thinking Allowed is presented by the California Institute for Human Science, a fully accredited university offering distant learning graduate degrees that focus on mind, body and spirit. The topics that we cover here. We are particularly excited to announce new degrees emphasizing parapsychology and the paranormal. Visit their website at CIHS.
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Book 4 in the New Thinking Allowed Dialogue series is Charles T. Tart, 70 years of exploring Consciousness and Parapsychology, now available on Amazon.
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Thinking Allowed Conversations on the Leading Edge of Knowledge and Discovery with psychologist Jeffrey Mishlove.
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Foreign.
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Hello and welcome. I'm Emmy Vadnais, co host with Jeffrey Mishlove. Our topic today is the Dao de Ching with my guest San Ching, who is a daoist, master of qigong and nigong. He is an ordained priest and lineage holder of Taoism and he is also a spirit channeler and healer. He is author of the books Dao Te Ching, Magical Register, Immortality Crystallized in the Material, the Ancient Practice of Synchronicity and Primordial Mother Crystallized. If you enjoy this program, please like subscribe, press the bell icon and share. San is joining us from Las Vegas, Nevada. Now I'll switch over to the Internet page video. Welcome San. It is a joy to be back with you on New Thinking Allowed today.
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So great to see you again, Emmy. It's always, always a very grateful moment and I'm always welcoming our conversations. It always warms my heart.
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B
That is so kind. I feel the same way. Today we're going to be discussing the Dao Te Ching and I just want to remind everybody that we did have a previous conversation about the metaphysics of Dao and I'll link that interview in the upper right corner of your screen. And this book, the Tao Te Ching, is a way for people to access their own inner knowing. Perhaps some suggest that it is the most translated book next to the Bible.
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Well, this is really for any Taoist seeker on the path of remembering themselves. The Taoist rites comes with what we would refer to as a manual and the Tao Te Ching is such in definition. We're talking about the integration of a path, a remembrance, and how personal your relationship is with the words that are created on the pages of this text. And so when you meet those words with Your own attention and intention. All of a sudden you start to feel how familiar this experience is and how much you are at one with this stream of what some people might refer to as consciousness. We refer to it as the primordial mother, but it's a unified state and it's so calming the least. People feel very much at home and embrace it for what it gives them because it's very much like another tool that people use. For example, the Book of Changes, the I Ching, other divination tools that become very effective to give you messaging that you need to hear for your own path. And you'll never. You could read these 81 incantations over and over again, and they will always have a different meaning depending upon where you're at in your life, own experience.
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B
What does the title Dao Te Ching actually mean?
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Well, we're talking about the reference of a path of awareness and opening to the ultimate, which is servitude and selflessness. Through this acquisition of information, we go deeper, using these words as a vehicle to build on itself so the individual seeker will be able to attune to their own appropriate remembrance. So path in of itself and the intricacies of that language that we're talking about, which is, you know, returning to the mother, returning to wholeness. That holiness will be found in every single incantation. Every, every single page has that mirrored effect.
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B
Who was Lao Tzu, who is often attributed to having written the Tao Te Ching?
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A
Well, you know, some people may refer to him as in, in essence the definition old teacher, wise teacher. This is fundamentally the definition of his name. And then furthermore, you go into understanding how the. The text came about and there are different translations which we came across as, you know, we were just briefly talking about this because it's so familiar and so many people have translated, even I think even more than the Bible, because it's such a small text that you can really sink your teeth into and go where you need to go. I find that a lot of people will. You'll find an iteration of that that is more in. In center of the. The. The translators version. So there might be a little bit more of a stoic yang expression of self as opposed to a Yin. You will find that when you get the right text, it will sing to you and bring you back to the. To that center point. So Lotsu, he, you know, through my own admission, I remembered my relationship with him many, many decades ago when I channeled him for the first time. And, and it was a very familiar experience, very profound. And it Set me on my journey to where I am today, but his own remembrance. And I'm actually finishing up a book on taoist immortals, and I go through and interview each one of these immortals and go into deep detail of their origin story. But in a nutshell, lasso described himself as a young boy having almost died in a local creek. He broke his ankle. He crawled to the side of the creek. He healed himself instantaneously, then gathered a relationship with the town as the. The. The wise healer. And then that turned into forging into his relationship with the culture. And furthermore, being an advisor to the specific authority or power at that particular time. Now, that echoes into his immortal self as supreme purity, which is forever. Now. Even lazu has his own iteration and emanation of self. And then you get a much broader expansion when you meet his immortal self integrated into what would be the mortal self. But there's still the spirit, so that connects the two. So supreme purity is the holder of all the light. That basically is the creation of the cosmos. So within Taoism, we have three dialogues with what is an iteration of the monologue, the mother, the three pure ones. Supreme purity is the immortalized version of La Tzu. Jade purity is the immortalized version of jade Emperor. And highest purity is the immortalized version of Ling Bao. And he. Ling bao is the keeper of magic. He's the magical teacher. He resides in the lower Duntian, and he basically captures and manipulates chi. And so whenever you fall into his teaching, you go very deep into that. So Jade emperor holds all the information and text within the heart center. The middle dantian and the upper Dantian is where lazu resides. For the light as it stands, stories may. May extend to he. He captured this scripture and then disappeared into, you know, the ether. No one really knows where he went. Well, actualize he was immortalized, and, you know, he's present at any moment and is constantly teaching others. Anyone that takes the Tao Te ching and wants to embody it through their own relationship, they will be very much satisfied with what takes place, because it's a union, and it's undeniable. You will feel the visceral experience from it.
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B
This was written about 2,000 years ago, is that right? And it includes 81 poetic verses that you also refer to as incantations.
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A
Right? Yeah. I mean, this is the part where the. The taoist alchemist really goes deep on the magic. Some people refer to that as the foundation. Most people do. Anyone that really understands the depth of. Of taoist alchemy always starts with the first channeled source, which we refer to the Primordial mother. Then the intricacies of that magic and how you lay down a magical grid and you work with that information. It's normally an. It's always a nine point grid. And that's fundamentally understanding how we get into the numerology, how that is very much in reference to the 81 cycles that come with the Dowdy Ching. And in evidence, it's 81 verses or 81 incantations. And so this is a very intimate experience that the seeker will have. The second they set their eyes on the Dao Te Ching, they will start to feel that remembrance. And it will come in a calming for someone that may not be as energetically sensitive. And as they start to really embody the Scripture, it will become extremely visceral. And so when I read the Dao Te Ching, the pages, the, the words come off the page, they swirl around me, they drop into my heart center and then expand me like a blossom flower. And that's really a very much a consensus. When people get really refined in their relationship with the Dao Te Ching, it will be a very sort of objective experience that they can't understand it. They're like, hang on, how is that universal? Yet it becomes that way when I've.
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B
Read the Dao Te Ching. Now I read a translation many years ago and I forget which translation. However, I recently read yours. And when I read both of those, I noticed how it seemed to really switch me from the linear, logical mind into more of an expansive, intuitive mind. Do you think that's part of the gift or intention of the Tao Te Ching?
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Oh, absolutely. I think it's really a consensus for any ancient script that it's an embodiment of that path and it emanates through the Scripture and it speaks to you in as you are, your body's in the tuning fork. So it's another expression or iteration of self. And more commonly, people may refer to experiences that are more controlled, say tarot cards, divination tools, I Ching, we referred to that earlier. These are all expressions of self that are coming through at a divine spark level that you can see evidence through the messaging. And the more you become intimate with the Dao Te Ching, you will find that it will speak to you. And everything that you do, you can use it even more of a profound experience than the I Ching, because a lot of people tend to use that because they want to. They want answers. The Tao Te Ching will give you the answers instantaneously. You just open the page and you'll find it there, and you'll be like, I cannot believe I've read this a hundred times. But it has such meaning to me right now. And it gives me complete guidance.
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B
What is the relationship between Daoism and the Tao Te Ching?
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The Tao Te Ching, we use that very heavily within the magic. That's why we call it the magical register. It's foundational, because when you're setting up a grid, which people might find it more common in practices like feng shui, where you're setting up objects to optimize the resonance within that space. And so when we set up magic, you're laying down a grid and you're aligning it with the cosmos and specifically the constellations, will. And this is where you get into star stepping, which is another magical path for Taoist alchemists. The magic goes really deep into star stepping. And so we use that grid to basically refine and harness the energy, draw it down into the material space. And then you start moving that energy around like you're on a chessboard. And so now the energy will meet. The ultimate goal for any Taoist, magician or alchemist is to bring everything to the whole most holiest unified state, bringing the immortality, which we refer to, crystallizing it in the material. So evidence of. Of the mother now, Evidence of something that is divine and holy. Right now, you and I are communing right now, the charge we're getting, we're feeling that unification because it's so powerful. And shout out to all our parapsychologist friends, this is psychokinesis. We feel that unity. We're feeling it. It's palpable because it's really, truly a resonance. It goes beyond the intellect, the finite mind, where we're attempting to manipulate things. There's no need for participation of us in any way, shape or form. We're just holding that resonance. And so some people might call it the egoic personality, self. Whatever you want, it's another iter of self is not required to hold that resonance. So then the magic gets really deep. You get to use the incantations, and it will take you on a. As. As we put it, a magical mystery ride where there's. There's phases of awareness that come with each incantation, where you can go up to 81 different phases within that same one incantation. There's a frequency and then a shape and a color that you can add to your experience.
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You mentioned a couple terms, if you could just give us a little more info on them. You mentioned the. The Grid. And then you also mentioned star stepping.
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Yes, I mean, star stepping is, is one of the ultimate cultivational practices for, for magic, for Taoism. And so across the Chinese landscape, embedded into the landscape, what people don't notice is there are hundreds of pyramids that have their tops locked off. And it's always been a perplexing question mark as to what, in what purpose is a pyramid basically laid within the Chinese landscape? It's more common within Egypt and other places. But when you look closer at pyramids, they're across the globe. So we use that flat surface, that peak point, which would normally be the most concentrated point, to draw energy down within a pyramid and then have it emanate within that structure to, to elevate the recipient. We use the flat surface to draw the grid. It's a nine point grid. Imagine a box. In most cases, everything is, is a macro to a micro. So you can use your, you know, you could go as deep as your eyes, you could go as deep as your face, your hands, your feet. You can dip into the correlation of the cosmos within that intimate setting. So normally we will draw that grid down on a part of the body or furthermore, something a little bit more elaborate, like for example, the top of that pyramid. And that's where most Taoist alchemists have the most intimate or the closest they get to the heavens. So when they draw that grid down now, they start, step, and within the nine points is where you move around the constellations and then cultivate that energy, draw it down from, from the heavens.
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B
What is the overall message of the Dao Te Ching? What is it wanting to impart to people?
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Every single incantation brings you back to the same end. Roads, which is all rivers return to the ocean. Everything becomes an absolute stream of divinity. And your union with the mother is the absolute remembrance and emanation. And so more and more you, you focus your attention on any individual incantation. You will be captured by your own self's resonance. And so all of a sudden the mind will disappear and you will feel the embodiment. So your tuning fork is a barometer. Your body will show the evidence. So it goes beyond intellectualizing things and attempting to contort them with the mind that just bleeds away and, and ultimately when you detach and attach, which is another rite of passage, you become that you can optimize the intellect supercharged as a holiness, but that requires more conditioning. And this is where it starts. When you use the Dao Te Ching as the magical register, you will instantly read it and feel how Alive those words are. And that's that you reference the poetry. And that's something that we talk about in relation to what we refer to as the rhapsody, where we go deep into bringing that heaven and being able to actualize it in a material state.
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B
Certainly we are discussing and talking about it. We are also in what it's talking about and living what it's talking about. At the same time, I urge those who are interested definitely to read the Tao Te Ching, because it's an experience, to actually read it as well. You have also created your own translation, which is actually a channeled version. Can you share a little bit about how that came to be? Did that just come to you one day? Or what was that journey like to have that relationship with Lao Tzu and then actually channel your own version of the Tao Te Ching?
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A
Yeah, it's so fascinating. My relationship with my teacher, it Once actualized or activated 30 over 36 years ago, I experience a very intimate relationship. It's like basically I'll wake up and go to sleep. My lucidity is always present with him in the periphery or presently channeling through me as a catalyst or conduit or in a mediumship relationship where I can. I can have a conversation with him without it being. Without him, his. His resonance entering my physical body. But I'm getting the information and of course I'm still emanating it. So it's very easy for me to. To access information in. In that sense of the word. And so he was like, we need to revise this. There's actually, for the audience, he's about to do a Part 2 of the DAO Te Ching and we're about to transcribe that. I'm going to transcribe that from him. So that's going to be a very interesting deal. So it'll be mind blowing. I'm super excited about it. And so he basically said, we're transcribing this. I'm like, okay, all right, so use as a channeler, as we're all channelers to some degree, but something a little bit more focused wise from an emanated, visceral physical experience. I'll sit there and he'll say go. And things will just come out of my mouth. I can't even remember quite honestly. And it's profound because you witness this stuff and it's. It's second to none. It's like you cannot. You don't have enough, enough depth to your imagination to create this stuff. And that's when you know you are Streaming what people would call, you know, God consciousness. We refer to it as the mother, primordial mother, the Dao universe, Buddha. You will get this information and it'll be like, wow, you can't make this stuff up. Yeah. And so he just basically said transcribe it. And so I transcribed that. I don't know. He did it in about a day and a half. I don't know what to say. It's just, it comes out like all my books. I can write a 300 page book in about, I don't know, an hour or two because I'm not, I'm just, just coming through. And I, and I, I do understand what people perceive as writer's block. And it does happen for me. I've never met it with that type of relationship. So when he speaks, this just comes through me. I. There. I think the biggest thing for people to be really confident with their own information is to let go of perceived versions of self and, and just sit in the information. And the, the less you squeeze, the more you receive, which it's like you want to be the, the, the harbor of change or the, you know, the, the evidence of what would be a very similar response, which is always stuck in a structure. So your mind is like the undulating flame. You reach for it and it just disappears. And the less you attempt to control that flame, the more and more you just, you bleed into everything and everything then returns back to that center that go. Expands to nothing. And this is what we call the great bellows. So information just will flow to you. And I mean, we all have it. It just depends on how deep you want to recognize that's taking place. Maybe it's only when you're, you know, dancing on a Friday night at, you know, dance class, or you hear a song that really evokes a passion within you. That's that moment. Allow it, move into it. Recognize that the mind, if the mind touches it and it becomes an emanated state where you're feeling a visceral response. Now you need to refine your communication. And I think we briefly talked about idiomotor response and, and how that's relevant. How what is a conjured up intellectualized version as opposed to you being eliminating as one stream. And that's a part of your own cultivation to recognize what that is. And that's where the, the messaging and clairvoyance, mediumship, channeling, these are all things that everyone should take their own path on. Find a method that's repeatable and start conditioning themselves so that they can have or maximize the wonderment of who they are through that stream, through that holiness.
- [25:33]
B
It's a very creative process. And at the same time there may be people listening, thinking, well, how do you know you're not just making this up in your own creative mind? How do you know you're really channeling Lao Tzu? And also how you were describing him earlier. On one hand it sounds like this was a living person and on another hand it sounds like there's a personification going on in reference to the different energy within and around the human body.
- [26:02]
A
Yes, yes, and yes. What I find most perplexing is, you know, I came from a background that was, you know, and people may have heard my story from the previous podcast. So in essence what, what happened was it's when you have a and about face on whatever path you're on and you recognize that it's completely, it's, it's contradictive to how you perceive reality. Which is. How I met Lazu as a teenager was, I had no expectation. I just knew I was developing this relationship with my fascination with superheroes, the physical body, super supernatural experiences and my, my intimate relationship with the Chinese culture. This had all grown as little mustard seeds over my childhood. And then it became actualized when I channeled Lu. Now this is the part where, well, how do you know what your channeling is? Where, where, who and how? Well, this comes from repeatability, right? I will tell people that it's very important that when you're, when you're accessing a stream of information, it will be undeniable when it returns you to servitude and selflessness. And the emanation is always, the message is always of the higher state of embodiment. When you start getting into things that are more manipulated and there's a lot more fear based stuff. You might want to pause and perhaps your personality is starting to manipulate the information due to your own agenda. And this will come and you'll start to recognize this. I would suggest that people start with connecting with self. One of the very important things of alchemy is you codified this substance that we call chi that is, is basically the, the essence of life on, in this material state. When you make it really, really, it becomes really dense through these alchemical processes. So there's no confusion where you're thinking with your mind, am I feeling this? Am I hearing this? It's a conditioned process. I think the apprehension for many people is that takes commitment and there's a lot of information out here. These days where their commitment to themselves is not strong enough and people like, well, jiffy, what do you mean to myself? Yes, you must love yourself, you must honor yourself. You must value and appreciate and be grateful for who, who you are. And that's where a lot of people get lost. They're like, but that's all it comes down to. And then the more you focus that attention and intention, that's where we, we evoke what we call the Shen Gong, the spirit power. This is where the rubber meets the road. And through your own conditioning, I suggest you find a, a method where you're not just getting carried away with a different phase or cycle of your, your mental process. And because it's still a psychological state until otherwise noted, there's going to be degrees of awareness. It's not to dismiss mental process, intellect, psych, psychological states because these are all stepping stones to remembering who you are. You need to start somewhere. And many people tend to go, well I'm just spiritual, I don't want to get into the psyche part. These all have fundamental value in finding your nuggets. I always refer to it as deduction. Elementary, my dear Watson. As the deduction. As you become more aware of these crumbs, then you can find a path because you being a healer for many decades and understanding all these different phases, from a physical expression to a psychological and mental emotional phase thing, all these things are so important to remember who you are. And many people just want to go straight to the secret source and there's nothing wrong. I look, I experienced it myself, yet I, I had to be able to hold it. I think the biggest issue is people jump the line to their awakening as Brahman consciousness, cosmic consciousness, pure source, akashic records, holds of a mentor, however you want to describe it, and they can't hold the charge. This is where I think we briefly talked about this, about how healing and on that path as being a healer can be problematic for many people if they don't fortify the physical body because it's an avatar. That is a body centric sort of thing. People talk about out of body, near death experiences, astral projection. This is kind of recognizing that as consciousness you can focus your attention on your body and then emanate through that or you are everything. And, and that is the stepping stones where through your own experiences you will start to recognize that you're channeling information that is of a higher, low frequency. That would then show you that I'm still playing in this symbiosis of yin and yang and I have this. This effect where I have to determine whether it's good or bad, heaven or hell. This is all part of your own process. When you get to that center point, you enter it, and then you recognize you are everything. You are everything and nothing. And that's where the conditioning, where you will feel. It's like, okay, for me, I hear lotsu. I see lotsu. And I'm not 3 cents short of a dollar, and I'm far from likely, as Crock and Tubs would say from Miami Vice, you left your groceries at the meat market. I have not. I've ever. It's. It's just so funny when you think about it, Emmy, 20, 30 years ago, when someone go, what do you do? Well, I'm a priest. Okay. What does that mean? Well, you know, I do, like, you know, ceremonies, transitions, birthing of children, weddings, exorcism.
- [32:07]
B
Oh, what?
- [32:08]
A
What? That. And then they get all puckered up because Hollywood has made it into a sort of a tarnished thing. And if you're coming from a dualistic perspective, and we all go into dualism, non dualism, non centric, centric, all these things are phases of your own remembrance and awareness. But there's no right or wrong way. It's a matter of where do you meet the mark on your own marathon or a sprint. It's however you want to make it, but it has to make sense to you. So, you know, you and I have a great relationship with chi and Eastern practices that work very well for us. But some other people might want to go down another path where they're. They're deep into other things that seem to be popular. But what I was getting at, you know, 30 years ago, when exorcism was a big thing, now, you know, that person would not consider themselves struggling with their intellect. They would, you know, realize they're channeling the Pleiadians, open up a YouTube channel and get 100,000 followers. I mean, that's where I think we're at with our own conscious awareness. What do you think?
- [33:19]
B
I think you did a very good job describing how you have had enough experiences through your consciousness, through your life, that you recognize the veracity of what you're receiving. And myself, having read your translation, but really a channeled version of the Tao Te Ching, it's for you to say that it took you, what you said a day, day and a half, or something like that. That's remarkable. And additionally, not only is the version I read in English, you also have another language in there as well.
- [33:56]
A
That's right. You know, it's very important. And I mean, I don't use these conjured words of material realm of man stuff, but to honor where this information comes from. Because when we emanate through the characters and languages that are translated that would be related to the Chinese culture, more commonly Mandarin as opposed to Cantonese, you. The, the Cantonese is more old world, but it's still many variables from other dialects and, and different versions of communication throughout all the provinces in, in China, you will go into a little town and they will speak a language that you've never heard of. And you'll have to either somehow hodgepodge it together or recognize you don't know how to communicate with these people. And so the honor and the importance of the characters and people could get really deep on that. They may not even understand it. But through the Pinyon, you can sing along to that scripture. And I'm about to release actually an audible version where I'm going to sing along and have a sing along of the scripture. And that's so visceral, somatic, it's beautiful. And, and people love to just fall into that and get really met with, you know, an experience which is what this is. If you look at the book, what happens to the front page is a culmination of a talisman, which is a magical, basically symbol that is being conjured up. So when you look at that actual book, each page has a phase where it lays on top of each other and it brings you back to the whole completion of the, what we refer to as the sacred infinite flower.
- [35:47]
B
Yes, I noticed that. It's very beautiful and it's subtle, but it does, it can grab your attention because you've overlaid the words on those images. So each verse has a different image? Yes, it has that visual imagery as well, in addition to the words itself.
- [36:08]
A
So that's the original talisman. And when someone draws that, this is part of like manipulating the energy appropriately to return things to whole. And so when you lay your, your brush down drawing a talisman, a direction is very important. The direction of the actual flow of the ink is so critical. And so it's not just like, oh, just draw this thing out. No, you cannot take the brush off the page.
- [36:37]
B
I want to read one of the verses from the Tao Te Ching. And this is from your channeled version. This is verse 16. This is just part of it. And it says all possibilities is the vision of oneness. Vision of oneness is universal love. Universal love is the great truth of nature. Great truth of Nature is Tao. Know this and you will live forever. Body dissolves, your identity forgotten. He who has dao has all eternity.
- [37:12]
A
Wow. Yes, yes and yes. Because you're the vehicle and you're the tuning fork. It just adds another flavor of. Of oscillation and emanation, because that's how it works. You are just. The second the breath meets this material, you return it. And so you will feel the evidence of it. You experience that. It's like, oh, my goodness. Wow. This is why ancient scripture in any form is so important, because it's an embodiment. And more and more of that will show itself through your reading.
- [37:52]
B
Do you have any favorite verses or any pieces that you would like to share from the Tao Te Ching?
- [37:59]
A
Yeah, I mean, I absolutely love every one, but let me just pick one right now. Okay. Verse 28. Let male merge with female. Let bright merge with dull. Let high merge with low. This will reveal the world as whole. Opposing forces will unite within, revealing a power abundant in its giving, infinite in its effect, flowing through everything, returning one to the first breath, guiding everything. It returns to no limits, embracing everything. It returns to the uncarved block. The block divided becomes useful. Leaders can rule with a few pieces of it. The sage holds the block complete, holding all things within himself embodies the great unity that cannot be controlled or separated. Amen to that.
- [39:07]
B
One just wants to sit and kind of absorb and take in all of it. It's quite beautiful. Can we talk a little bit about the core themes of the Tao Te Ching? For example, simplicity, humility, balance, and effortless action. Does that resonate with you, Hasan, or do you have others you would suggest?
- [39:37]
A
No, no. I mean, it really is returning to the flow of nature, which is an effortless, A sublime, synchronistic, serendipitous, super ride of remembrance, where people are just in this whimsical, childlike state, and they never have to escape it. It doesn't end with, you know, the last word of an individual incantation. You are at all times holding that charge. And so when you hold the charge, it's very. It's impossible. It's like, you know, if one of my children, they're. They're having their version of a spill key, the spill key moment. I'm feeling a little upset or overwhelmed. You cannot. You revert to this sort of, like, collapse sort of state where you have to fall in on yourself. The second you open your chest up, shoulders back, arms up in the air, head up, you feel a flow and a charge. Because the biology is Giving you the ability to emanate and embody that flow of energy. And that's what happens when you read the Dao Te Ching. It returns you to that perfection, what we call perfection manifest, the primordial mother. It's a mirrored effect. The second you read it, you will feel the embodiment and you will become whole. And that's where the simplicity, the synchronization, and really the way and nature of things is the true essence.
- [41:17]
B
There seem to be paradoxes in the Tao Te Ching, which makes me think of like, sort of like the Japanese koans, where they give you something to contemplate that doesn't seem to rationally fully make sense. For example, soft overcomes hard knowing, not knowing is true knowledge and so forth. Can you enlighten us a little bit about these paradoxes?
- [41:43]
A
It's understanding the rule set for what you would believe is your reality. So material state is a distortion of energy, and your attention, intention forms from it. Cup, a cell phone, whatever, you're getting a version, a subjective version of reality. And so the paradox is when you find your answer, there is no answer. And so. Hang on, hang on a second. It's messing with my mind. Because when you arrive, the true outcome is you are everything and nothing at the same time. And that could only be met with an experience. And the experiential moment is being able to cultivate those energies that goes beyond the intellect where you're attempting to go. Well, how is it that, you know, I just. I've. I've virtually signaled everything. I've taken the shirt off my back. I'm. I'm part of the community. I've surrendered everything. I do not obsess over material things. Yet I'm not meeting the satisfaction of being given this message from the primordial mother or God, Universe, Buddha. And so my life becomes more and more diminished. I'm feeling like I'm less in the flow, not more in the flow. And that requires you to go through what we call a process of selfishness, reveals the selflessness, requires the sacrifice so that the. That when you recognize that you completely let go, which is what we call the flow, which is Wu Ji, Everything will be revealed to you. As one of my teachers would always say, when you accept you know nothing, you know everything. And so the less you push, the less you control from the mind. And you recognize that it has already been completed, that you're experiencing something that is a creation that is constant. Then everything comes to you. And it's like, it seems so counterintuitive yet that's the continued messaging that takes place within all the scriptures within Taoism.
- [44:00]
B
It sounds like it helps us get out of our egoic minds, our sense of personal identity, into our intuitive, holistic selves, which is really one with everything and, and where we can access more of that knowing.
- [44:18]
A
Well, yeah, it removes the finite mind. The idea that you, you are creating something because your participation is not required. Anything that you are thinking up in your mind is, is not, is not anywhere near the truth. It's when you experience it and it emanates from the heart that you will. You will instantly have informational access. And so there is no in between. It's not like to sit here and conjure up something. Everything is instantaneous, which will be perceived as instantaneous. I mean, if we start talking about physics and other things of that nature. There is a. There is a degree of what is light speed? Where are we at? What are we actually? From a, from a precognition aspect. What does that really mean? You will, you will experience it as now that in. In a short form. That's what that means. It means that instantaneously past, present and future are melded together. That's where the, the symbiosis of yin and Yang becomes whole. When is. Is symbolic, as you know, right and left side of the brain, when you merge those together, you have complete union, holy stream dominion, Imperium maestro over. The actual operating system that would be in is always independent. And that's where you cultivate the energy and the energy will be independent. So it runs on outside of your finite mind. And all of a sudden you're like, oh, hang on, I have all the answers. I can tap into it instantaneously without having to process it.
- [46:08]
B
Can you give an example of how the Tao Te Ching has helped you in your life?
- [46:15]
A
Connecting with that relationship and recognizing that I have for many lifetimes been experiencing and emanating this message to really guide what is a collective in remembering their own true holy nature. It's so beautiful. It's transformed everything that I know to be true. Because before my relationship with lazu, I was just always under the understanding that something greater would take place, that if you believe, you will create or receive more of the same. And that was just an intuitive thing that I had as a young boy. But it became really tangible when I was able to meet it with an understanding. When I first evoked lazu, everywhere I looked, anyone's mouth would open with a yin and Yang symbol inside it. Like, I can't even you know, this was days into channeling him. And then when I. When I was embodied through the scripture and then the. The all the ancient practices, from a priest perspective, it just made absolute sense. And quite frankly, I sound like I'm a fanboy because I'm a little biased because I am a Daoist priest. But you can relate yin and Yang to everything within a dualistic model. It's like just. It's just so. It just makes so much sense. There's so many people like, I had no idea this yin and Yang thing was a thing, but it makes sense to how I understand reality. And I assume you have a similar relationship with that. It's like it just. It clicks.
- [48:00]
B
Yeah, I'm actually wearing a rainbow yin yang on my lapel, which is the. As we know, the logo for new thinking allowed that Jeffrey Mishlove created many years ago, which my understanding, it just came to him while he was walking down the street street one day and created this. So there's a lot of meaning in this. And yes, we can continue to contemplate it. And perhaps that's also I noticed for myself, the Tao Te Ching seems to help expand the mind, the consciousness, to what is possible in our understanding. Like you've been talking about here with our time together today.
- [48:38]
A
The Yin and Yang is absolutely profound revelations for anyone that's seeking to know thyself or understand something about their own experience, their own reality, or taking it from subjective to objective to a unified state. The Yin and Yang is such a potent symbol symbolism. And then furthermore, I mean, we could ask Jeffrey what the deeper meaning is. But when I look at that symbol that he created, it has such deep meaning because it refers to the light spectrum that is created between the earth and the sun. Furthermore, someone might refer to that as a rainbow. And that is ultimately in reflection to the energy potential that lies within everybody. And once you connect with that, then you have a whole new version of yourself because you can start to really enhance your experience and have more direct understanding, which is where most. I believe most people are looking for something to do with a holy experience that can only come from going past the mind, the intellect. I always refer to it. If you're thinking, you're not knowing. If you're knowing, you are feeling. And that feeling, feeling will speak to you louder so you're not interrupted by. You don't have to attempt to manipulate an outcome. The body will emanate it and you'll go, oh my goodness. That felt right for me. I went in a room, I I really enjoyed the company or I went into a space where I felt like it was very contracted and limited. I need to step out of that space. The body is speaking all the time in this stress adaptation and then expansive sort of like language that is nonverbal.
- [50:29]
B
Yes. The Yin and the Yang has many metaphors, representations of what it means. It's a very deep symbol and one might suggest it represents the unconscious and the conscious mind, the day and the night, the light and the dark within ourselves. And also perhaps that left and right brain that as you were talking about the thinking and the knowing and the feeling. And also we may be able to use our intuition and our logic together that it isn't that one necessarily needs to override the other. However, in my personal experience and helping a lot of people with their intuition over the years, being able to access this inner knowing can enhance our lives and inform us so that we're not just looking at things from a rational, linear perspective, which sometimes might be able to inform us, but oftentimes can be quite limiting.
- [51:30]
A
Yes, you're always fought with the fringe benefits of your external stressors being your personality. It's always going to attempt to commandeer your insight, foresight, revised sight. And then, you know, the more and more you become mastered and in. In your own conditioning. That's why alchemy for, for a Taoist, and many people find it appealing, the alchemical process, because you're conditioning something that can be repeatable outside of. Of the intellect, that, that tapping into that phase or band of resonance, you can experience something that doesn't have to make sense with the mind. It's already happening independent of your thoughts. And that's where it becomes very exciting because you. It will be a constant battle between yin and Yang when you're on this path, which I believe anyone that's listening to this incredible podcast is on a path of recognizing there's something greater. If, if that wasn't the case, I wouldn't be listening to this material. I believe.
- [52:44]
B
How can reading and being and feeling the Tao Te Ching enhance people's everyday lives?
- [52:53]
A
Oh my goodness. Because, you know, if you turn it into a ritual, which is so rewarding, and that's part of the very infrastructure of any Taoist seeker, is that Taoist rites of passage is creating a ritual. Every day I wake up, I'm given a directive and a mandate in the morning, welcoming of ceremony. And I have that through the course of the day and then the evening. I'll then revise that with my teachers and close the Day out with an evening ceremony. These are so important because you know, if you were to water it down to what you know, some hypnotists would refer to as a hetero action, a cycle where you are feeling the need to complete an open ended experience where one starts, one must finish. It's a natural selection or instinctual thing, thing that you need to get past. So what, what, how does that work? Go up to a door and open it and see if you're, you can you, you're going to fight a compelling nature of wanting to close that door because that's part of the cycle of your experience within this. When you experience the Tao Te Ching, it layers the effects. So when you read it specifically the translation that I transcribed, there's, there's things that you can add to it. So there's in, there's actually invoking invoke like magical incantations that you can apply to each verse. And if you apply that to the verse as an experiencer, you're going to feel that buildup and the more you speak it audibly or inaudibly, it's going to fill your physical body, body up and you're going to be home. Holy moly. Where, where is this coming from? So it's a substantive thing where you are experiencing something greater than what's in your mind. And that's where you, the mind will just bleed out into the background and you'll be able to really be the true holiness embodiment. And so when you layer that on as you, you start your day and you end your day with a verse, I would suggest that most people that are, that want to experience this, they take one verse and they use it for a week. And every morning they start with it, every evening they finish with it. And you will watch an accumulative effect. And the more and more you become familiar with your energy, you're going to notice holy moly. This is building on itself. And it will, interestingly, people will notice a reset that will instantly be reset. They'll be like, wow, I didn't do anything other than I read this. And it just, it was like this oscillating blossoming flower that I've got inside me. Because you are remembering. It's like a, it's, it is a mirrored effect where you get the holiness. You may feel like you're, you've had a bad night's sleep or you've had a long day or things are creating pressure within your own experience. Read the scripture and it will instantly reset your so for any person who's interested in finding themselves and this aligns with their, their excitement, apply that and you will be absolutely rewarded with the outcome from an experiential moment.
- [56:24]
B
San, is there anything else you want to share about the Tao Te Ching today?
- [56:29]
A
That it is one of the most profound contributions to humanity that I'm aware of. I think that anyone that is interested in finding a greater sense of self or understanding what they're doing within their own journey, use this ancient scripture to sand off the edges and bring them back into the center and let them blossom out into their true self, which requires less thinking and, and the knowing is part of the feeling and that's where this thing is alive and without any further sort of explanation. It comes from an experience and the universal understanding with the language, whether you're familiar with Mandarin or Cantonese or English, you can merge yourself into this and be really rewarded with what happens because it's a mirrored effect. If you're feeling sub level experiences from a humanistic perspective, the second you read this, you will be elated, aligned, expressed and feel the oscillating divination of self. And that's in most cases, that's all we need to remember to align with that holiness. And that may come from that scripture, it may come from the Bible or, or the Dharma. Whatever it is that you align yourself with, you won't realize it from reading San Ching.
- [58:05]
B
I've enjoyed this conversation immensely. I've enjoyed dancing in the Dao, talking about the Dao Te Ching with you, and I look forward to more conversations with you in the future.
- [58:17]
A
I'm very grateful for being able to share this incredible scripture and I can't thank you enough for allowing me to share it with your audience because it's a. It's a beautiful expression of self and I highly recommend and suggest that people go out and express it for themselves if this is something that aligns them.
- [58:43]
B
My pleasure, son. And thank you for being with me. And for those of you watching or listening, thank you for being with us and dancing in the dao with us because you are the reason that we are here.
- [59:19]
C
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