Threshold Contact and Sleep Paralysis with Sheila Pryce Brooks

Summary

Podcast Summary: New Thinking Allowed – “Threshold Contact and Sleep Paralysis with Sheila Pryce Brooks” (Nov 8, 2025)

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Main Theme

In this episode, host Jeffrey Mishlove interviews Dr. Sheila Pryce Brooks, a scholar, author, and personal experiencer of sleep paralysis, about her profound research and direct experiences with the phenomenon. The conversation ranges from conventional scientific definitions to cross-cultural folklore, personal empowerment, the development of the new concept “Threshold Contact Experiences” (TCEs), and the broader implications for consciousness and contact with non-human intelligences.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Defining Sleep Paralysis: Conventional and Folkloric Views

• Medical Perspective:
  • Sleep paralysis is typically described as a glitch in REM sleep where “you open your eyes, you sense you’re in a different environment… you may try to shout or move or make a noise or awaken someone and find that you are paralyzed… they can’t move their mouth, arms won’t move” (Dr. Sheila Pryce Brooks, 03:18).
  • Seen as harmless by the medical community; often viewed as a temporary “hallucination” or REM-related anomaly. “There’s not an official medical diagnosis” (Jeffrey Mishlove, 05:47).
• Folkloric Perspective:
  • The phenomenon has ancient roots, occurring “for thousands of years,” popularly attributed to supernatural visitations such as the “incubus” or “hag” (Dr. Sheila Pryce Brooks, 07:14).
  • The term “incubus” refers to a male demon/being thought to sit on the sleeper’s chest; its female counterpart is the “succubus” (10:21).
  • Many cultures worldwide have unique terms for the experience, often translating to “the being that sits on your chest” or “ghost that rides you.”

2. Dr. Sheila’s Personal Journey

• She experienced “chronic sleep paralysis” for over thirty years, describing life as a “victim, tormented, harassed… sleep deprived because… the moment I would fall asleep, they would get me” (13:44).
• Identified physical precursor: intense cold, beginning at her feet and moving upward, signaling the onset.
• Encounters included a range of entities (incubus, “smoke entity,” the “hat man,” tall, “too tall for the room” beings).
• Initially characterized by overwhelming terror, her experience transformed after she shifted her mindset from victimhood to empowerment:
  • “I remember quite clearly that it was when that my mindset changed from being a passive victim to taking back my power. And I went to sleep those nights saying, bring it on. I'm not doing this anymore. Bring it on. And it was over those weeks that the experiences started to change” (00:00, 25:19).
  • Entities became less threatening; “we would dialogue,” OBEs (out-of-body experiences) became positive, and she had euphoric, loving experiences with non-human presences.

3. The Coining of ‘Threshold Contact Experiences’ (TCEs)

• Dr. Sheila observed that “sleep paralysis” was an inadequate term, missing the richness and variety of experiences, with many people crossing a “threshold” and making contact with some form of non-human intelligence (26:53–27:50).
• TCEs include a spectrum of phenomena: OBEs, contact with intelligences or deceased loved ones, psychic abilities, and life-changing insights.
• There is a need for further research to understand what occurs beyond the threshold, as “once that threshold is crossed, contact is made with what, scientifically, we don’t know” (25:19).

4. Epidemiology and Social Impact

• Found reported prevalence in studies ranges widely, from 3% to 80%, with 20–30% acknowledging such episodes during talks (32:31).
• There is significant stigma, misunderstanding, and psychological impact; some were sent to therapy, others kept silent for decades.

5. Stuck in the Terror State & Transformation

• Most experiencers remain “stuck in the fear-based state,” with only a small minority achieving transformation and empowerment (36:14).
• Some link these experiences to UFO encounters and intentionally attempt to induce contact (36:45).
• “There is a very clear connection between… sleep paralysis and the UFO phenomenon… What that is, how that works, we’re not sure, but it’s definitely worth more research” (Dr. Sheila, 38:51).

6. Ontology of the Entities

• Dr. Sheila asserts the entities are not mere hallucinations:
  • “The entities to some extent know who you are... there is an intelligence behind these entities... there’s the telepathic nature of the experience... it’s clearly an intelligent state there that’s going on between the two of you” (41:45).
• Offers evidence of hierarchy, relational intelligence, and dynamic interaction (e.g., one entity warning her another is coming).

7. Overlap with DMT, OBEs, and Jungian Thought

• Strong parallels with DMT-induced entity encounters: “It’s almost as though when you cross that threshold, you… are in this… dimension to what we’re used to… during the TCE state one can have more control in that environment” (46:52).
• Responds to the subconscious projection theory: global consistency in experience points to something more than the individual subconscious—“So from the subconscious perspective, how is that possible unless our subconscious states are a shared state?” (49:20).
• Aligns with Jung’s collective unconscious, and adds contemporary context by referencing internet communities describing identical “archetypes” (the hat man, etc.).

8. Healing, Contact with Deceased, and Evolution of Understanding

• Interview studies included reports of contact with departed loved ones, providing comfort and closure (54:01–54:44).
• Suggests a new understanding of human consciousness and non-human intelligence may be emerging through these experiences.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Empowerment and Agency:

  • “It was when… my mindset changed from being a passive victim to taking back my power… bring it on. I’m not doing this anymore. Bring it on. And it was over those weeks that the experiences started to change.” (Dr. Sheila, 00:00, 25:19)

• On Cultural Universality:

  • “Most cultures don’t use ‘sleep paralysis’… Some cultures refer to it as the ghost that rides you, the being that sits on your chest… all relate to this sense of the pressure on the chest, some kind of beast or entity that will come and get you…” (10:21)

• On the Realness of Experiences:

  • “I know my experiences are perceptually real, you know… after gaining back my power… I needed to research this more. I needed to provide a way to help others who are also having these experiences.” (28:08)

• On Contact and Intelligence:

  • “The entities to some extent know who you are… almost a relational kind of experience… there’s the telepathic nature… there’s adapting to our intelligence, so that the experience can make sense for us.” (41:45)

• On DMT and Altered States:

  • “The same entities are being engaged during the DMT experiences as during sleep paralysis… That’s another threshold… when you cross that threshold… one is in this… different dimension.” (46:52)

• On the Limits of Medical Understanding:

  • “You’re not alone. Because there are many, many of us who are having the same experiences… too remarkably similar for it to be discounted as the subconscious…” (49:20–51:00)

• On Contact With the Deceased:

  • “During that threshold state… she did not see him physically, but she felt him… she saw a hand… a form of healing had taken place during the experience.” (54:01)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Definition and Medical/Folkloric Framework: 03:18–10:05
• Discussion of Incubus, Succubus, International Folk Terminology: 10:05–13:28
• Dr. Sheila’s Personal Experience and Turning Point: 13:44–27:50
• Introduction and Explanation of TCEs: 25:19–27:50
• Overlap with Near-Death Experiences: 28:08–32:21
• Prevalence and Social Stigma: 32:21–36:14
• Link With UFO Phenomena: 36:14–39:16
• Nature and Reality of Entities: 41:45–46:34
• DMT Parallels: 46:34–49:00
• Critique of Subconscious/Projection Theories: 49:00–53:32
• Jung and Contact With the Deceased: 53:32–57:02

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Takeaway

This conversation reframes “sleep paralysis” as part of a much broader spectrum of conscious experience, rooted in cultural history, validated by widespread reports, and possibly indicative of genuine contact with non-human intelligence. Dr. Pryce Brooks’ concept of Threshold Contact Experiences (TCEs) encourages a more open and holistic exploration of human consciousness, bridging folklore, scientific skepticism, personal empowerment, and the emerging understanding of anomalous phenomena.

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Further Listening

• For those interested in the intersection of sleep phenomena, entity contact, and consciousness research, this episode offers an accessible yet profound exploration, leaving open questions for science, culture, and personal growth.

Transcript

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

I remember quite clearly that it was when that my mindset changed from being a passive victim to taking back my power. And I went to sleep those nights saying, bring it on. I'm not doing this anymore. Bring it on. And it was over those weeks that the experiences started to change.

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[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

Thinking Allowed.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

Conversations on the Leading Edge of Knowledge and Discovery with psychologist Jeffrey Mishlove. Hello and welcome. I'm Jeffrey Mishlove. Today we will be exploring the phenomenology of sleep paralysis. With me is Dr. Sheila Price Brooks, who received her doctoral degree from the University of York in the United Kingdom for a dissertation exploring exactly this topic, the Phenomenology of sleep paralysis. Dr. Brooks is located today in Jamaica. Welcome, Sheila.

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

Thank you, Jeffrey. And thank you for having me here on your show and for this opportunity to speak to your listeners and to your viewers. Thank you.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

Well, the topic of sleep paralysis has come up often on this channel because we focus a lot on the paranormal. UFO phenomenology, for example, has a lot to say. Many, many contactees and experiencers report events that are very much akin to sleep paralysis. So I know that there will be a big interest in this topic. Perhaps we could begin by defining how the phenomenon is viewed conventionally.

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

Conventionally, it's typically an experience whereby the person will wake up and they wake up during their sleep state, which sounds a bit strange waking up whilst you're asleep. But you literally do. You open your eyes, you sense that you're in a different environment. You scan with your eyes this environment as your eyes kind of dart from side to side because you feel a bit strange. Something is a bit off and it's like you know that you're not awake. Conventionally, it's seen as pressure on the chest. One might suddenly feel a great weight on their chest. They may try to shout or move or make a noise or awaken someone and find that they are paralyzed, that they can't move their mouth, that their arms won't move. They may try to get up and get out of bed, but they can't move. So there's this struggle intern, whilst the body is physically paralyzed. Now some persons may. Well, let's stick with the conventional approach first. Let's stay there. And that then is I guess, the conventional explanation of sleep paralysis. Hallucinations may take place. Persons may hallucinate and see different entities, different visions, things might happen. But it's all part of the. Like an issue with your REM sleep state. You're awake, but you're not awake. Your mind and your body has not aligned and does not synchronize. And that then creates the hallucination that one experiences. But eventually one wakes up out of it. It can last anything from a few minutes to a few seconds. One wakes up and one gets on with normal life. This is conventionally, it's a glitch, it's a one off. Some people do have it repeatedly. They may need some sleeping medications, different types of meds for it. But essentially it's not seen as a problem within the medical institution.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

In other words, there's not an official medical diagnosis for it.

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

No, because it's really termed as an hallucination. You know, it's just a blink really, that the person has experienced. It's nothing to worry about because the person wakes up and can function quite normally, you know, because it's an issue of the sleep state and that lack of synchronization between the sleeping and the waking moment. And that's the medical perspective of it.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

Is it related to other sleep disorders in any way, like sleep apnea, narcospathy.

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

Which is the sleep issue, where persons can fall asleep at strange times. What we do find is a lot of persons with that experience sleep paralysis as well. And the reason for that, we don't know. The reason for sleep paralysis itself conventionally is not known. It's very much theorized that it is this kind of glitch. But from a scientific perspective, we really don't know what it is that's going on.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

There's a lot of folklore associated with sleep paralysis.

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

So the folklore with sleep paralysis goes back thousands of years, literally. And it can be seen perhaps at the time of the first written records being produced that persons are speaking about experiences that are incredibly similar to those that are being had today. And those experiences include seeing different entities. The most common one at that time, in terms of the written record was an incubus type entity that would come and sit on the chest of individuals whilst they're sleeping. And that's very much written about to the extent that sleep paralysis was called the incubus. Way back, you would be said to be having the incubus episode, you know, because it was so popular. But a range of different entities have been spoken about historically over the years. And the folklore extends to different countries, different cultures. They're all speaking to the same phenomenon of the paralysis of the liminal state that you enter and you wake up that different reality experiencing different sensations, different noises, different types of engagements. The folklore definitely speaks to that. Both historically and worldwide, people are having these same experiences. And so it's been going on for many, many, many years. And it was only during the Enlightenment period where we kind of shifted into this kind of scientific fr. Everything had to be measured. Spirit doesn't exist anymore. It's only what we can see tangibly, that can be measured, that the term sleep paralysis was coined during that era because it was something tangible. But unfortunately, when that came about, all of the other mystical types of experiences that went along with the paralysis were dismissed. They no longer were credible. So right now, what we're left with is a somewhat inaccurate term, sleep paralysis, for something which is really, really far more extensive than just the physical paralysis of the body.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

Now, you've used an interesting term, incubus. I've often heard it in the context of incubus and succubus. But could you define that for our viewers? I suspect many of our viewers will be unfamiliar with either term.

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

Well, that's exactly it. I mean, and it is seen in this context along with the word succubus. Historically, they were said to be the two kind of demons entities. And there is a painting that your viewers can look up by Henry Fuseli, was done in the 1700s. And it's the picture of a. It's a lady and she is lying on a bed, you know, with her back to the bed, and there's a huge kind of beast like entity sitting on top of her. And that is a depiction of the incubus. The incubus is the male version and the succubus is the female version. But I will say that the incubus, when it comes to sleep paralysis, appears in both. With both female and men, they both experience the incubus who comes to what some cultures say ride them at night. Some cultures refer to being ridden at night. For example, in Newfoundland, there's a hag. It's called the hag. And the hag's going to come and ride, you know, and you've been, or you've Been hag ridden. These are terms that are used to relate to the incubus of olden days, which is being used now culturally in some societies. And I will say that geographically, the different cultures all have a different term for the word sleep paralysis. Most cultures don't use sleep paralysis. It's us in, like, Western cultures who kind of scientifically and neatly package it as sleep paralysis. Some cultures refer to it as the ghost that rides you, you know, the being that sits on your chest. It translates into those words in different cultures. But it can be seen, as I said before, in nearly all cultures and countries across the world. And they all relate to this sense of the pressure on the chest, some kind of beast or entity that will come and get you whilst you're sleeping and really just terrify you. The experience, I will say, and I missed that when I spoke about the conventional approach to sleep paralysis. What is consistent is the terror that one experiences when they awaken and they're in that state and they realize that they cannot move and that they are. There is a terror, and there is also a sense that something is around that knows that you're terrified and that you are afraid.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

I gather that your research is not only academic, but, one might say, also personal, that you've had experiences of what is known as sleep paralysis throughout your life.

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

Yes, I have, Jeffrey, for the best part, I'd say, of 30 years plus, I experienced what I would call chronic sleep paralysis. Just thinking about it, kind of, you know, a bit shaky at the moment, but we continue. For those years, I was terrified to sleep. I was convinced that they were waiting for me, that they were going to get me, that they wanted to kill me, and that I wouldn't wake up one morning, that my family would find me dead in the morning in bed, not knowing how I had died. I felt victimized, tormented, harassed. And as I said, I was extremely sleep deprived because I was convinced that the moment that I would fall asleep, that they would get me. And the primary reason for that was because the majority of times when I'd sleep and it was so bad that it would even happen, I'd sleep, it would happen. I'd have an experience. I'd wake up, you know, traumatized, doze back off, and then it would pick up from where it left off. So it would continue, you know, despite having woken up. And through those years, I had begun to notice that the experience would be preceded by a temperature change around me, especially at my feet. It would start to go icy cold. And that coldness would gradually get higher up on my body. It's akin to going into a pool of cold water, you know, and it gradually. It gets colder and colder and higher and higher on your body. And then I would be consumed by this coldness. And at that point, if I hadn't woken up, it was too late. If I could wake up, as soon as I would feel the temperature change, I had a chance to not have the experience, you know, so that would proceed it. Once I was having. Once I was asleep, I never knew what would happen. And I still don't. And I should say I still have them, you know. So whether there would be an incubus, because I've seen the incubus and experienced the incubus many times, whether it would be the incubus, whether it would be what I call a smoke entity. Experience that one many times. And that one would start off as just an innocent wisp of smoke in front of my eyes or in the door frame, in the doorway there or at the window. And it would gradually take form. It would get bigger and denser and take form. The hat man is another one I've seen very, very often. And that's the silhouette of the man in the top hat and a cape. I've seen the traditional kind of grey, like entities. I've seen very tall, long, long legs and bodies that kind of. It's almost like they're too tall for the room. They bend over the ceiling, you know, because they're so tall. So I've seen a range of entities during the experiences that I've had. Very early on, they were very terrifying, very frightening. I'd awaken, my heart would be beating very fast, and it would take hours for me in the. To come around, you know. I've also experienced multiple times of having those episodes and thinking I'm awake, I'm thinking I've woken up only to find that I'm still in that state. I refer to them as dream loops. And I think there's now another term for that experience there. So I would think I'm awake, I can start my day only to see something. And that would trigger me and remind me that I'm still back in that state, you know, but what's happened is, is that over the years. But what perhaps I should say is that what happened was that I had reached the state where I thought I could not escape. And I thought, is this gonna go on forever? Is this what life is going to be like? I remember clearly going to the doctors one day, having tried a multitude of things on my own, there was a point where I thought I was cursed. I thought somebody had put a spell on me. I had been to see various pastors and. And various religious figures. I prayed constantly. When I awoken in sleep paralysis, I would ask for God to help me. I would call the name of Jesus. Those things never worked for me, having spoken to hundreds of people since. Sometimes it works for them, but for me, it never worked. And I got angry one day. I think it was after I'd been to the doctors and the doctor said that I was stressed, I needed to get some sleep. That was what the doctor had said to me. I'm tired, I'm overworked. And prescribed me sleeping tablets. And I left the doctor's office and cried. I remember that very clearly, feeling that. How can a doctor, a trusted kind of medical professional, prescribe me sleeping tablets when I've said quite clearly, I'm afraid to sleep, you know? So I obviously didn't take the tablets. I mean, my thinking was that they may make me less responsive. I may not be able to. They may kind of drug me so much that I may not be able to wake up myself if something is happening. So I didn't take the tablets. A short while after that, I got angry. I was fed up with being abused and victimized and tormented. And I remember quite clearly that it was when that my mindset changed from being a passive victim to taking back my power. And I went to sleep those nights saying, bring it on. I'm not doing this anymore. Bring it on. And it was over those weeks that the experiences started to change. They were no longer filled with terror. I would see the entities and we would dialogue. I would go to different places. I had many obeisances, out of body experiences. I would go to different places, both on Earth and off Earth, you know, I remember one experience in particular, Jeffrey, where I woke up again in that state. I woke up and it was like a hand reached down and I heard, come with us, come with us. And I grabbed the hand and we just went up. I went up through the ceiling, through the sky. I was out, up, up, and I was looking at the planet. And I was way up into the. There was blackness around, but there was a light, a pinprick of light that we were going towards. And as the closer we got, I was filled with this powerful feeling of love. It was in my body, this love feeling. And it got stronger the closer that I got to that light. And there was a point when I heard, I have to take you back now. And so it was almost as though that was as far as I could go. And then, whoops, I was back in my body again, you know, And I was left with that kind of euphoric feeling when I woke up again in the morning, you know. So the experiences changed, and I became more empowered, I had more agency, you know, I could observe the experiences without being a participant, so to speak, you know. So what that then meant is that when I awoke in the mornings, I would have clearer recall. I would remember what was happening and the engagements that I was having. So the experiences then completely changed from what had kind of engulfed my life in a terrifying way to this transcendental experience that I continue to have now. So now when I sleep, I really don't know what's going to happen, but the fear is not there. I don't know who I'm going to see or what I'm going to see or what the engagements will be like, but that fear is not there. And most importantly, Jeffrey, is that that awareness of the paralysis is not there, which was, I think, confining because people are expecting to have paralysis. And there isn't always that awareness of the paralysis. When you awaken, you go straight into that new type of experience, and the paralysis is a normal physiological response. We all have this paralysis when we sleep. The difference is that for some of us, when we awaken in that state, we realize that we're paralyzed. But everyone goes through that when they sleep, and it's part of the body's kind of safety response so that we don't act out our dreams. So that's why that happens. And that is also why during my. My research and the period of my studies and everything, I found that the term sleep paralysis is no longer appropriate for the experiences that people are having. The sleep paralysis was coined at a time when it was not perhaps safe any longer to talk about the mystical elements. If, you know, if we think back, there were times when people were being burned for saying that they had these experiences. So those were completely cut out. So the term that I'm now using are threshold contact experiences. TCEs. And that is because the research is showing me that there is a threshold that some persons can cross or that is crossed. And once that threshold is crossed, contact is made with what, scientifically, we don't know. We do know that there is some kind of intelligence and a relational experience can take place once that threshold is crossed. And there is a need for more research to understand what happens past that threshold. But this is what's happening to persons once they cross the threshold. There is a range of phenomena that can be experienced from OBEs to dialogue with different types of entities and non human intelligences that can all take place once the threshold is crossed and persons can come back with messages. Sometimes with having wonderful experiences with psychic abilities, they awaken. These abilities are more honed in and clearer. And that's as a result of having had the tce. The threshold Contact experience.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

What a wonderful term. I haven't ever heard it before and I gather at some point, I presume after you regained your power is when you decided to become a researcher and investigate this whole area in depth.

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

Yeah, I had regained my power and realized that. And I always had realized that there's something else going on here that this isn't. I'm not having an hallucination, I'm having perceptually real experiences, you know, and, and whether or not everyone has caught up with me on that, you know, I'm not bothered with that. But for me I know my experiences are perceptually real, you know, and then I started to speak to others because my research, after I did my went through my studies, it was the same narrative that we were sharing. The same narrative, the same types of experience. Yes, no two experiences are identical. But it was after gaining back my power that I decided that I needed to research this more. I needed to provide a way to help others who are also having these experiences. I also know that there is a stigma or there was a great stigma for persons who are having these experiences, you know, because it's akin to saying that you're engaging with demons during your sleep. So people tended to keep it within. They don't share these experiences, you know. I also know that it can have an impact on relationships, on your very identity and who and what you are. Having had that, having gone through that, you now know that there is more to this life, you know, without a doubt that more exists beyond that threshold. And I know that the research that I've done, there's overlap with the near death experiences that persons are having because in sleep paralysis the phenomena is strikingly similar. Persons will speak about the light. I've just gave an experience about the light that I saw. People will talk about tunnels, they'll speak about seeing loved ones receiving messages, etc. So there is overlap with the, the near death experience that we're starting to know know more about due to more research that is happening on it, you know, so, so yes, having gained back my power, I said that somebody has to take the step to kind of understand the phenomenon a lot more, and hence why I've coined the term the tce, to take into account the expanded range of things that can happen. So it's not just paralysis to understand that there is a line that is crossed, that threshold that is crossed to give credibility to the medical community who can now say to their patients, you've had a tce, you know, and that then validates the individual because the doctor or whoever is supporting you or with you now understands that you've experienced a range of phenomena, not just being paralyzed during sleep, but that it comes with this whole kind of soup of different experiences.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

Do we have any data with regard to the proportion of the population who have these experiences?

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

The data is very, very broad, and I guess it depends on which academic study you'll look at. It ranges from anything from about 3% to 80% of the population have these experience. David Hufford, who is a trailblazer in the world of sleep paralysis, estimated it at 20% of the population experiences it. I know when I do talks and I ask persons to raise their hand and say, have you had sleep paralysis? It's around 20, 30% of the audience will say that they've had these experiences. So it's happening to a lot of people who don't have anything to turn to in terms of saying, yes, this is what I experienced. So they'll say that they've had sleep paralysis with or without the paralysis. So the sleep paralysis could have been an extended obe, for example, you know. But yes, it's a significant amount of the population are having these experiences.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

And I presume that your research involved interviewing many people who reported these experiences.

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

Yes, it does. Yes, it does. And it continues today as well. I'm still speaking to people and documenting experiences, but yes, I spoke to many people. And within that, the formal parameters, in terms of the research at the University of York, interviews lasted around three hours, going into four hours on average, because I think persons felt as though at last someone gets it, you know, at last you understand. And I'm not being ridiculed or thought of as being mad. There were times when it was quite sad. I spoke to some young people whose parents had put them into therapy for it. I had spoken to persons whose relationships had broken up because of the experiences that, that they were having. I've spoken to persons who have kept it a secret 20 years, had not shared it with anybody, but were able to share it with me. So there were some instances of sadness during the discussions that I've had. But on the flip side, persons were able to relate their experiences to me. And I think also because I'm an experiencer and I've gone through it for so long, it's a space that I'm very familiar with. It's a territory that I'm extremely familiar with in terms of what happens in that space. And it is to be taken seriously as well.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

Well, in your case, it went on for years in the terror state before you began to regain your power. I wonder what percentage of the people that you've interview able to achieve that perspective.

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

A very small percentage. The majority of people that I spoke to were in that fair base state and they were stuck there. It's almost as though you're on a loop, and I know that loop only too well, where you're afraid and you think they're going to get you. You're afraid to sleep. You don't want to have that terror. You also have to be mindful about where you sleep, who you sleep with, who's in the bed, who's in the house. Do you share this information with people you know? So the vast majority of them were stuck in that. That state. I will say that a percentage of them also linked it to the UF phenomena quite clearly. They were seeing UFOs on a regular basis. They were doing various practices, some of them, to have the UFO engage with them. They were that they were. The entities that they were seeing, they would say would communicate with them telepathically during the day and during the sleep state. And so for a percentage of them, they were actively, what would I say, they were researching personally, their own experiences with extraterrestrial entities. During the sleep state and the wake state. They were doing various meditation, they were going to various sites, and it's during those experiences that they could almost kind of try and bring on a state of sleep paralysis and have those experiences. So there was this intertwining of sleep paralysis and the UFO phenomenon which people were speaking to me about. And some of them had seen entities and shadows of entities during the wake state as well. So there is a very clear connection between those two themes. And. But it's one that again, needs more research. I think there's maybe two papers, two academic papers that I was able to find, and there may well be more that spoke to the relationship between sleep paralysis and the UFO phenomenon. But there is a very clear link between the two. What that is, how that works, we're not sure, but it's definitely worth more research.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

Well, there are certainly a Number of UFO contactees. I think Whitley Strieber is archetypal in this regard, who began terrifying experiences typically involving medical procedures done on them. And then after a period of time, and they digest the experience, they come to see it in a positive light.

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

Yeah, and I guess that mirrors the sleep paralysis experience, which starts with the terror state and the fair state and then it transforms. So there is perhaps something about one's outlook or one's mindset and approach to the experience that can then shape the experience. And I'm an example of that. I guess that when you begin to kind of see it positively and want to understand it more and know more about it, I also know that when the experiences stop, persons miss them. It's like, oh, why haven't I had an episode? I mean, what's going on? Where are they? So persons get accustomed to them, you know, and so there's something about that pleasurable state that one wants to explore further, you know, and understand more. And it demonstrates that, you know, it asks the question, what, what or who are we? For me, we're far more than this physical being. There's a lot more going on to what makes up a human and the human potential, which I know, which I, you know, I categorically know to be true, you know, that there is something on the other side beyond that threshold and even in day to day life, but we just don't have that understanding of what that is.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

Contact implies, of course, that these entities have an ontological reality of their own. These are not hallucinations, as you said. Can you elaborate on that?

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

So the, the entities to some extent know who you are. They know what kind of will frighten you. It's almost as though there is. Well, it's not. There is, there is an intelligence behind these entities. So there's a knowing of what will frighten you and what won't. There's almost a relational kind of experience between you and the entity. There's the telepathic nature of the experience where the communication goes back and forth between you and the entity. There's an understanding of our social dynamics. So it's aware that perhaps that you were in bed. It's aware of how to communicate and the dynamics of that. It's aware of that. It is kind of injecting itself into your sleep state. It's very much aware of that. That and those dynamics. It's aware of the dynamics between individuals. I remember one experience where I awoken and there was whispering in my ears and I could see a lady and she Said, they're coming, they're coming, I've got to go, I've got to go, they're coming. And she said that and I then immediately she disappeared and a huge shadow came in the space where she was and engulfed me. And of course I went into this panic state. So that implies there's a hierarchy, there is something whereby she is, she herself knows that she is part of this hierarchy. For her to say that they are coming and that she knew she had to go. So those again, that again shows me that the, the entities are aware of the dynamics in terms of relationships between, between humans and that this whatever was coming, she knew she had to warn me, which again shows that understanding and that she had to disappear. You know, so there's clear. That's clearly an intelligent example of what was happening there. I've had persons say that the entity will perhaps appear on the ceiling. They're lying on the bed, it will appear on the ceiling. The hat man, for example, his hat, you can't see his face. The face will transform. Perhaps you're looking up at the face and you'll suddenly see the face of a family member, for example. So it has access to that. It may swoop down and frighten you further. And it's almost a deliberate act, that swooping sensation where it will try to frighten you. They'll observe you and you know that you're being observed. So it will stand in the corner of the room perhaps and be looking at you and watching you and you'll know that dynamic of being watched. And that's clearly an intelligent state there that's going on between the two of you. So the relationship is definitely one of intelligence to intelligence. And there's a sense that, that there's an adapting to our intelligence so that the experience can make sense for us. And there's also the sense that as our framework adapts, their framework adapts as well, which is why it can shift from the fear based terror framework into those more pleasurable, transcendental type of experiences which can guide you and show you that there is more going on within this human life and what we're kind of used to in terms of our very existence.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

I'm sure you're familiar with a lot of the research going on these days with DMT and people reporting contact with entities while they're under the influence of that drug. Do you think there's an overlap or similarity there?

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

Most definitely, because again, the same entities are being engaged during the DMT experiences as during sleep paralysis. It's Almost. And again, that's another threshold that has been crossed. And it's almost as though when you cross that threshold, you kind of. It's a portal almost or, you know, a door that one crosses. And now one is in this, this space, which is very much a different dimension to what we're used to. And in that space, that's where these different entities can also reside and access that space as well. So it's almost as though during the sleep paralysis state, or the TCE state, let's call it, that one has the ability to have that same DMT experience and have those engagements during, during the TCE state, which, which is a mirror in some ways, because the DMT state can be different, the entities that are seen, there's definitely overlap there, I guess that the sleep paralysis state can be more sustained. And during the tce, one can have more control in that environment because you can be quite lucid and you can have those engagements. You can become familiar with the entities and the different forms that you see during those experiences as well. But there is definitely an overlap between those two states. And perhaps maybe having an altered state experience, that space kind of is a suitable framework for those two experiences.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

Well, the obvious alternative explanation would be that what you're encountering aren't external entities at all, but are actually the contents of your own subconscious mind. How do you address that potential explanation?

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

So that's interesting. And I have heard that say, and that said, and that's akin to the hallucination theory as well. And what I would say is that many people are having the same experiences. So from the subconscious perspective, how, how is that possible unless our subconscious states are a shared state, I guess, which then perhaps takes us back to that shared space, you know, which is kind of interdimensionally where those entities can reside, you know, from our subconscious, I've heard that it could be persons have experienced a trauma in their waking life, you know, and that's been buried in the subconscious and it's prompting these experiences. I've heard that said. And again, you know, I would have to say that I put it on the other person to explain. How is it possible internationally around the world that the same shared experiences are happening? You know, I would have said that my traumatic experience would have been unique to me. So I ask you, how is it that millions of people are all having the same experiences without having had a traumatic experience in their waking life life that they are aware of? And so the argument just does not hold water, you know, because it. I just cannot See how that is, is possible. And I guess that somebody would have to explain to me how that is possible. And you know, you also then take into account the folkloric, the historic kind of supporting data for the TCE experiences. You know, it's not just a one off phenomenon. It's happening to millions of people and it has done for thousands of years for eons and it continues to happen. So and I guess and this is to any viewer or listener that thinks that, that they are having one off experiences and that they are alone in this. No, you're not. Because there are many, many of us who are having the same experiences, having this, going through the same trauma, you know, that these thresholds kind of can induce. You're not alone. It's not a unique experience to you based on the life that you've lived. It's too remarkably similar for it to be discounted as the subconscious, a subconscious experience that is playing out during the sleep state. And today in this kind of world of social media, one just has to Google the hat man, for example. Just Google the hat man. You will see millions of hits come up of persons who have seen the hat man. And so I would really have to kind of pass that argument back onto whoever has suggested it to explain, you know, how it's possible that so many people are having these same experiences.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

Well, I imagine you're probably familiar with Jungian psychology and Carl Jung's notion of the collective unconscious that, that we all share in the archetypes. Jung of course, thought that in addition to the collective unconscious, there was another reality. He describes, for example, the idea that in our dreams we actually are visited by deceased individuals.

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

And I would definitely say that Jung was onto something there experiences that I've interviewed. Several of them met persons who had passed on, who had transitioned during that threshold state. Many of them have had these experiences. I know one lady in particular was quite distraught. She had lost her partner. And she said that during the, that threshold state, she said that she did not see him physically, but she felt him. She could feel him, you know, in that state. And she saw a hand. And when she was retelling it to me, she said, and in that moment when she woke up, she knew that he was fine and that he was happy and that she no longer needed to worry about him. So, so a form of healing had taken place during the experience, you know, so I would definitely say that Jung is, is, is. He was on to something there when he spoke about that. His idea of the collective mind may also be what we now call, call kind of universal consciousness, you know, or the field, you know, in terms of a share, a sharing of space that is not physically tangible but yet still it's there. And that may then account for the DMT experiences and the threshold contact experience experiences. It's definitely an area that's worthy of more exploration and it's one that just by speaking to experiences and hearing how similar the experiences are, it brings credibility to Jung and to the DMT work and to also the threshold contact work. I guess that. But I'm also going a bit further by saying that it is contact with a form of intelligence. And I guess Jung was saying that as well, but not in those words when speaking about loved ones and seeing them in that space. So I'm clearly saying that it is an intelligent form of consciousness or entity or let's say non human intelligence that's being engaged in those spaces. Most definitely.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

Well, Dr. Sheila Price Brooks, this has been a very enlightening and fascinating conversation. I'm delighted to be able to share your research with the New Thinking Allowed audience and I will be following your work closely over the years because I think you're definitely onto something that needs to be more deeply understood. Thank you so much for being with.

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

Me today and thank you Jeffrey for hosting me. It's been wonderful.

[Jeffrey Mishlove]

It's been a real pleasure. I hope we do more and for those of you watching or listening, thank you you for being with us because you are the reason that we are here.

[Dr. Sheila Price Brooks]

Foreign.

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