Podcast Summary: Unidentified Submerged Objects with Richard Dolan

Podcast: New Thinking Allowed Audio Podcast
Host: Jeffrey Mishlove
Guest: Richard Dolan
Date: May 12, 2025

Overview of the Episode

This episode explores the mysterious world of Unidentified Submerged Objects (USOs)—water-based UFO phenomena—with renowned researcher and author Richard Dolan. Drawing on his newest book, A History of USOs: Volume 1, From the Beginning to 1969, Dolan and host Jeffrey Mishlove delve into the evidence, case studies, historical patterns, and possible implications of anomalous underwater objects, all while reflecting on what these cases reveal about non-human intelligence and official secrecy.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Defining USOs and Their Prevalence

• USOs are a rare but distinctive subset of UFO phenomena, referring to unidentified objects observed in, entering, or emerging from bodies of water.
• The figure that "50% of UFO sightings are water-related" is a myth; credible USO sightings account for perhaps 1% of total UFO reports—possibly slightly higher—but are underrepresented due to humanity’s limited time on the water.
  • “When I would go through the accounts...maybe 1% or fewer are actually cases where an object is seen in the water or coming out of the water.... Rare though they might be, they are very distinctive and fascinating subset of the overall phenomenon.”
    (Richard Dolan, 03:39)

Famous and Recent Cases

• Military encounters are prominent among USO reports, with many cases involving Navy personnel, including the well-known "Tic Tac" incident off Southern California (2004). Some witnesses reported a large submerged object in addition to the airborne Tic Tac craft.
  • “There was something else in the water by the USS Nimitz carrier group that was quite substantial and apparently had incredible maneuverability.”
    (Dolan, 05:31)
• Recent and dramatic sightings include a 2017 oil rig case in the Gulf of Mexico where multiple witnesses saw a disc-shaped object "the size of a football field or more" emerge from the water and accelerate away at tremendous speed.
  (07:26)
  • “We saw the water dripping off the sides. It hovered and then it took off like faster than a speeding bullet.”
    (Dolan, recounting witness testimony, 08:41)

The Historical Record

• Ancient and pre-modern USO accounts are difficult to verify, as documentation is sparse and often ambiguous. Dolan’s earliest “solid” case dates from 1717 in the Caribbean.
  • "The first really solid one that I recorded for my collection was in 1717 in the Caribbean, off the coast of Martinique. And that’s a pretty good one."
    (Dolan, 11:11)

Unusual Phenomena: Luminous Spokes and Lights

• Many 19th and early 20th-century reports describe luminous “spokes” radiating from a wheel-like center underwater––with no visible craft present. These phenomena remain unexplained but seem to differ markedly from typical “craft” sightings.
  • “They would note this phenomenon of these luminous spokes without a rim...going out for often hundreds of yards, and they would be revolving around a central hub under the water.”
    (Dolan, 12:33)
  • Some researchers, like Charles Fort, speculated these were signs of nonhuman intelligence; others have tried but failed to explain them as natural bioluminescence.

Theories: Plasma, Intelligence, and Unfathomable Strangeness

• Plasma-based life or intelligence is considered as a hypothesis by some (e.g., Robert Temple) for certain luminous, amorphous USO phenomena.

  • “Is it at all possible that a plasma or some kind of light phenomena can act with intelligence?...From my complete amateuristic background, I’m inclined to think it is possible.”
    (Dolan, 15:05)

• Some USO or “wheel” phenomena may be utterly beyond current human understanding, potentially representing both technological and nonmaterial intelligences.

Adaptive Behavior in the Phenomenon

• Statistical review reveals behavioral adaptation: The timing and nature of USO activity appears to mirror advances in human surveillance and detection technologies.

  • The transition from day-night parity to predominantly nighttime encounters occurs post-1960s, especially in military contexts.

  • “Up until the late 1960s, it was 50, 50 day versus night. After the late 60s, almost immediately went to 75% at night....The percentage of nighttime encounters becomes almost 90% when you’re looking at military cases. So it seems to me that this is good evidence that they, A, can distinguish between civilian and military craft, but B, that they instituted some behavioral change by the late 1960s.”
    (Dolan, 21:40)

  • Possible implication: The intelligence(s) behind USOs are studying us and adapting in response to our technological advances to maintain secrecy.

Military Interference and Technology

• Multiple accounts exist of USO encounters disabling naval ships’ electronics and communications, sometimes for prolonged periods.
  • Example: In 1971, the USS John F. Kennedy experienced a glowing orange sphere hovering above, after which all communications reportedly ceased for 20 minutes, and sailors were deeply disturbed.
    • “Anything that’s going to shut the communications of a United States aircraft carrier down for 20 minutes, you have to assume that even that goes to the President.”
      (Dolan, 28:34)

Geographic Patterns and Site Clusters

• USOs are frequently reported near deep ocean trenches and underwater “hotspots,” such as:
  • Puerto Rico Trench/Bermuda Triangle
  • Offshore from Catalina Island (California)
  • Regions of the Bering Sea, South America, and Asia
• A minority of sightings occur in lakes and rivers, with the Great Lakes (especially Lake Michigan) being notable secondary hotspots.
  • “About 3/4 of all of the USO sightings are from an oceanic body of water, but about 15 to 20% are from lakes...a little more than 5% are rivers...”
    (Dolan, 39:41)

Encounters with Beings and Biological Phenomena

• Rare USO reports involve sightings of nonhuman beings, sometimes associated with missing time or water extraction activities.

  • Example: 1914 case near Lake Huron (Georgian Bay), where witnesses saw small beings collecting water with a hose. When startled, the craft took off with a being still clinging to the outside.
    • "It seems almost too crazy to believe. Then on the other hand, I can say to myself, are these beings flawless? Do they never make a mistake?...All I can say is maybe, I don't know."
      (Dolan, 43:24)

• Speculations about biological robots: Some beings may be artificial, genetically engineered, or cybernetic—and possibly “expendable,” aligning with reports from alleged abductees.

Government Secrecy, Disclosure, and Retrieval Efforts

• Official response remains one of obfuscation, with “whistleblower” revelations failing to bring true disclosure.

  • “They are coming out, they do make something of an impact, but...we’re not having game changers. One would have thought two years ago that David Grusch could be a game changer...and they haven’t.”
    (Dolan, 49:45)

• Possible retrieval operations: U.S. Navy modifications to nuclear submarines in the 1960s reportedly enabled retrievals of small USOs from ocean shelves. Analogous operations (e.g., the Glomar Explorer’s retrieval of a downed Soviet sub) demonstrate such feats are technically possible.

Patterns in Data: Electromagnetic Effects and Missing Time

• Statistical findings indicate a link between electromagnetic interference (EMI) and “missing time” experiences: EM effects (communication failures, dead electronics, etc.) appeared at a rate four times higher in cases reporting missing time than in standard USO incidents.
  • "Military encounters were twice as likely as the norm. So military Encounters had a 20% likelihood of electromagnetic interference. And that to me is also seems not random."
    (Dolan, 62:13)
  • Suggested implication: EM effects may be intentionally used by USO intelligences to facilitate abductions or evade detection.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I liken our relationship to them, especially under the water, as a kind of dance...For a while, but then we started to notice them quietly. Certainly not talking about it with the general public.”
  —Richard Dolan (25:29)
• “Beings and sometimes allegations of missing time. But as far as with the beings, yeah, this is a small minority. I think 3 or 4% of the cases where someone will...report...I saw, or I believe I saw silhouettes or an actual being associated with the craft.”
  —Richard Dolan (40:43)
• “The only thing that’s different about these USOs is that they are basically aerial UFOs that go into the water is really what it looks like to me.”
  —Richard Dolan (46:22)
• “We hear so much talk these days about biologics. And another term I’ve heard recently is the idea of biological robots, that these beings associated with these craft are in a sense dispensable, that they don’t mind if we occasionally capture one.”
  —Jeffrey Mishlove (56:26)
• "For every case that I included, there were at least five or more that I just discarded...But one thing that gives me confidence is, again, when I would notice patterns in the data that would crop up."
  —Richard Dolan (59:36)
• “There are certainly times with any project like this where you have your frustrating moments and days, but overall, truthfully, it was a non stop fascination for me...these cases which have been completely forgotten. And they're extraordinary moments in a person's life or really in the history of our society.”
  —Richard Dolan (64:14)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Debunking the “50% USO” myth: 02:48–05:11
• Military USO encounters & the Tic Tac case: 05:11–06:56
• Oil rig mega-USO sighting (2017): 07:26–09:21
• Historical USO cases misgivings: 09:21–11:19
• Spoked luminous wheels/wheel lights: 12:03–14:38
• Speculative plasma intelligence (Robert Temple): 14:38–16:42
• The USO phenomenon “adapts” to human tech: 19:16–21:40
• Rise of military USO encounters at night: 21:40–26:34
• EMI disabling warships, USS John F. Kennedy (1971): 26:34–30:03
• Geographical clustering, oceanic “hotspots”: 36:30–39:41
• Lakes, rivers, and land-based USO encounters: 39:32–40:32
• Sightings of beings/biological robots: 40:43–44:50, 56:26–59:10
• Disclosure, government secrecy & retrievals: 48:18–55:42
• Patterns in EMI and missing time data: 59:27–63:40

Episode Tone and Style

• The tone is methodical, open-minded, and rigorous, with Dolan emphasizing careful data collection, skepticism of unsupported claims, and statistical analysis to identify significant patterns.
• Both host and guest maintain a collegial and curious spirit, willing to follow the evidence even when it points to the bizarre or incomprehensible.

Conclusion

Richard Dolan’s work on USOs brings a scholarly yet imaginative approach to a highly unusual phenomenon, blending deep archival research, data analysis, and theoretical openness. The discussion leaves listeners with a sense of awe at the strangeness and subtlety of these underwater enigmas and suggests that, for now, we are only scratching the surface of a vast hidden reality.