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New York Farm Bureau News Bytes
#1: Interview with Adam Howell and Audrey McDougal on NY FarmNet - 5/14/25
00:27:06
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- [00:12]
Amanda Powers
When life on the farm gets tough, whether it's financial uncertainty, emotional strain, or the everyday stress of running a business tied to the land, New York farmnet shows up. They knock on the door, sit down at the kitchen table and listen. Hi, I'm Amanda Powers, Director of communications at New York Farm Bureau, and you're listening to News Bites. News Bites brings you stories and conversations that spotlight the people and programs supporting agriculture across the state. Today I'm joined by New York FarmNet outreach director Adam Howell and family consultant Audrey McDougall. Together, they walk us through how this unique program provides real time help to farmers, meeting them where they are, literally and emotionally. This is about more than farming. It's about supporting the people who feed us during the good times and the hard ones. Let's jump in.
- [01:08]
Unknown
For free confidential assistance From New York FarmNet, call 1-800-547-3276. If you or someone you know is suicidal or in emotional distress, dial 988 for 24. 7 support. For a life threatening emergency, call 911 or go to the nearest hospital emergency room.
- [01:28]
Amanda Powers
Hello, we're talking today with Adam Howell, outreach director at Farmnet, and Audrey McDougall, a family consultant. So, Adam, let's start with you telling us a little bit about farmnet and the services you offer.
- [01:39]
Adam Howell
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having us here. So New York farmnet is a totally free confidential consultation service and we're available to any farmer in New York State, big or small, regardless of what commodity, regardless of what type, beginning or, or an older type of farm. We are here to serve New York farmers, again with free consultation, free advice, and free services that address both the financial and mental health side of farming. So what we do is we send out two consultants, usually to the farm. We do work on the farm in person with, with farmers on any number of issues, and we help them lay out a plan to address any type, of, any type of problem, any type of opportunity, any type of change that they're having in the farm itself. And like I said, we're available to any farmer throughout the state.
- [02:26]
Audrey McDougall
Great.
- [02:26]
Amanda Powers
And speaking of throughout the state, what areas specifically do you cover? Everything from Buffalo to Long island, everything.
- [02:32]
Adam Howell
From Long island to Buffalo to the north country, the Mohawk Valley, Hudson Valley, Finger Lakes, Western New York. We serve dairy, like I said, in the big dairy producing areas, fruit growers in the Lake Erie watershed and everything in between. So we are active all over the state. We're funded by the state of New York. So we are, like I said, a free Service for anyone who needs us within the boundaries of New York State.
- [02:55]
Amanda Powers
That's great. So, Audrey, it sounds like you have boots on the ground, so maybe you could tell us some things that we should know about mental health and farmers.
- [03:02]
Audrey McDougall
Yes, absolutely. So we, you know, we go out to help farmers, we go to the homes, we speak with the families, and mental health is a serious concern for farmers and this population. There are many reasons for that. We know that there are higher rates of depression in rural areas, higher rates of depression and anxiety among farmers compared to other occupations, because it's a stressful job. I mean, it's a job that is a lifestyle as well. And there's all sorts of occupational hazards that go along with farming and all sorts of unpredictability. So mental health is a serious concern. And we know that among farmers, the suicide rate is three times more, three times higher than the national average. So it is a concern, and it's something that, you know, we take very seriously at farmnet.
- [03:54]
Amanda Powers
Adam, I suppose you probably do many things on many different days, but what is there a typical day for you at farmnet and what does that look like?
- [04:02]
Adam Howell
You know, the fun thing is that there isn't a typical day. And that's why I like working at farmnet so much. There is a very big sense of community amongst agriculture in the local areas throughout the state. And my job is fun because I get to tell the story of the farmers that we serve, talk about how we help farmers across the state, and really also shine a light on some of the struggles that farming and farming communities have in these rural agricultural areas. We do a lot of different activities. In addition to the direct consulting that we do, we do educational outreach. We do a series of presentations called Talk Saves Lives and Stress Management. We work on things like financial, financial knowledge for farmers, tax awareness. So there's no one, two, two days that are the same. And it's a lot of fun because we get to be creative in telling these stories. And I really enj the fact that I'm working on the ground in places like this with farmers.
- [05:01]
Amanda Powers
That's great. You mentioned Talk Saves Lives. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
- [05:05]
Adam Howell
Sure, Audrey, I'll let you skip to that.
- [05:08]
Amanda Powers
Yeah.
- [05:09]
Audrey McDougall
The Talk Saves Lives, that is a presentation, a curriculum that is developed by the American foundation for Suicide Prevention, the afsp. And what it is is basically a presentation around how to talk about suicide and how to use conversation around suicide as a way to prevent suicide. So it really equips people with the tools of, you Know, how do you express concern to a loved one? How do you initiate that conversation? It also provides education around the risk factors and the warning signs for suicide. So it's a really informative presentation that helps people in the community feel more comfortable talking about suicide with the goal of kind of reducing that stigma that exists so people feel like they can address it and feel like they can really have those conversations.
- [06:01]
Amanda Powers
Is this something you hold regularly or do people ask you for these services, like, on an as needed basis?
- [06:06]
Audrey McDougall
Yeah, I think both. But typically we get requests to go out and provide these presentations. I've done several of them on the Cornell campus for students. We've worked with the vet school collaboratively there. But, yeah, we get both. We get requests and we also can go out and provide those presentations.
- [06:24]
Amanda Powers
Right?
- [06:25]
Audrey McDougall
Yeah.
- [06:25]
Amanda Powers
And speaking of just your everyday, what about you? What does your day look like? And maybe you could tell me a little bit about what a family consultant for farmnet does.
- [06:33]
Audrey McDougall
Yes, absolutely. So no two days are alike, but typically we go out to the farms, we meet farmers where they're at. And family consultants in particular, we are social workers or counselors. So we have a background in mental health. We have a background in addressing some of the emotional difficulties that people face. And so with farmnet, what we can do, we go out with the financial consultants and we go into people's homes, and we can support the farmer and their family members with having really difficult conversations. Because a lot of times, you know, these farm transitions that we get calls about, whether it's succession planning or retirement planning or maybe, you know, facing the sale of a farm or a beginning farmer looking to get into it. Right. These are all transitions that come with a lot of stress. And so sometimes families don't have the practice or they don't know how to begin talking about it and how to kind of cope with all the emotions that they're feeling. So the family consultants, like, our job is really to support that conversation and model how to communicate about these issues. Right.
- [07:47]
Amanda Powers
And I imagine too that because so many farmers work with family members, that adds a whole layer of extra challenges.
- [07:54]
Audrey McDougall
Absolutely. Yeah. I think, you know how families are. Like, I don't think most of us envision working with our families 247 in our workplace as well. And that adds a whole nother layer of complication when it comes to communicating. And, you know, different people have different ideas about how the business should be run. So sometimes there can be conflicts within families and they really just need a little bit of extra support and a third party to come in and say, hey, let's sit down and talk about this. You know, I can help you do that.
- [08:26]
Amanda Powers
So it doesn't have to be just the old way or just the new way.
- [08:28]
Audrey McDougall
Exactly.
- [08:29]
Amanda Powers
Somewhere meeting somewhere, Somewhere in the middle. Yeah, yeah. You talked about stress, and obviously farmers carry a lot of stress even when things are really good.
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Audrey McDougall
Yeah.
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Amanda Powers
What are some of the common stressors that you see when you talk to families?
- [08:42]
Audrey McDougall
Yeah, absolutely. I would say one of the biggest stressors is financial, the financial pressure of running a farm, especially in today's economy. And, you know, farmers, they don't get to set their prices. Right. They're kind of responding to what's going on with markets. So that unpredictability in the work is a big piece. And the financial pressure. And a lot of times we're seeing farms that are fourth, fifth generation family farms. And so that pressure falls on the shoulders of whoever's running a farm today. And that can be a lot of pressure for someone to deal with. In addition to the financial pressure, I would say the unpredictability of the weather. Obviously, when your income is dependent on the weather, that is a huge risk. So farmers are carrying this constant uncertainty, this dependency on factors that are out of their control. So I think that adds a whole layer of stress to the job. And then on top of that, it's physically demanding. So there's a lot of risk in terms of hazards with farm equipment and the actual work itself. And sometimes we see people dealing with chronic pain after many years of farming. And we know that chronic pain can be a risk factor for depression and suicide. So that can add a component of stress as well. And then I would say the family piece, as we mentioned, you know, working alongside your family, especially the differences between older generation and younger, and ideas about farm management and decision making and control. We do see a lot of stress that I think older farmers face in terms of their identity being so wrapped up in the farm. And then we also see the younger generation taking on a lot of anxiety about the future. You know, they're asking questions like, how am I going to run this farm? How much debt am I willing to take on? So there's different stress factors, I think, for different generations as well. And when families have to come together and decide things, it can be very stressful.
- [10:53]
Amanda Powers
That's when they need a mediator.
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Audrey McDougall
Yes. Yeah.
- [10:56]
Amanda Powers
So with all this uncertainty, we hear a lot about uncertainty.
- [10:59]
Audrey McDougall
Yeah.
- [11:00]
Amanda Powers
Adam, are you noticing an uptick in this, like in requests to farmnet for this type of assistance, given the Economic climate and the crazy weather we've been having.
- [11:11]
Adam Howell
Sure. And one of the things that we're also seeing is there's a little bit more of a willingness to talk about things and approach things with regards to mental health and agriculture. One of the interesting things about our program, we were formed in 1986, and at the time we only had financial consultants. Over time, those financial consultants came and reported back that there were underlying issues with the family, with mental health that were driving the concerns and the stress and the problems at the farm. But at the time, we didn't consider that there was a cultural aspect towards approaching mental health and agriculture. And that's changing. And we brought on the social workers as a means of addressing both sides holistically. That's our program model and that's what makes us unique. So we are seeing an uptick. But that's not a bad thing in terms of people being willing to ask the tough questions and address things like mental health, because we want to approach both sides of the issue. It's not just a financial concern. Whenever finances lead to stress and lead to depression or lead to those other things like substance abuse. So there is more pressure out there in the world happening in agriculture, but also we're seeing positively that people are more willing to talk about mental health and agriculture, which is a good thing.
- [12:30]
Amanda Powers
It's definitely a step in the right direction. I mean, with mental health being such a multifaceted situation, it sounds like farmit is also evolving to be more multifaceted to help out with that. So you talked about stigma. Maybe it's improving a little bit now with people being able to talk about it. But when it comes right down to it, how do you get farmers to open up and talk to you? That seems to be the big question.
- [12:50]
Audrey McDougall
Yes. You know, I think it's interesting because there is. There definitely is stigma out there. Right. So a lot of the communities we're going into, and I myself, like, I grew up in a small rural community, so I understand the stigma around talking about mental health and explaining to people that you're going through something or having a hard time. Farmers really have these values of like, self reliance and independence and being strong, being tough. Right. And so I think a lot of times, you know, luckily we are seeing that stigma is shifting a little bit. And I know that, you know, there's been recent studies that 90% of farmers in a recent study said they are willing to talk about mental health with a friend or a family member. So there's a difference in who they're talking to and how they're talking about it. But when it comes to professional help, you know, we go in and I think the most important thing is just authenticity. So I'm just, I'm going in, I'm being authentic, I'm showing curiosity for what they do and what they're going through. And I really, you know, I have so much respect for farmers and the work that they do. And just demonstrating that respect is a big part of it in terms of building trust. And I think, you know, farmnet is really unique because we aren't coming in like other mental health professionals, you know, where you would go into an office and sit down. And we really recognize that farmers have expertise about their own lives and we're not here to tell them what to do.
- [14:24]
Amanda Powers
So you're going out to them.
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Audrey McDougall
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [14:26]
Amanda Powers
Which not to mention their days are so busy, they, you know, it's probably better for them anyway to not have to schedule an appointment and go to an office that might not be close to the farm.
- [14:34]
Audrey McDougall
That's a big part. And I meant to say this earlier when we, you know, talking about mental health with farmers, like, one of the biggest pieces is access. Many farmers do not have access to mental health care because, you know, 65% of rural counties in this country do not have a single psychiatrist. So, you know, that's a huge gap in services. And even the counties where maybe farmers can access services, they might have to drive like 50 miles to get to the nearest mental health clinic. Right. And so access to mental health services is a big piece of why we're seeing higher rates of mental health issues in rural places and in farming communities, you know, and also Internet access, like many rural homes don't have reliable Internet for telehealth. And so we really need to think about, like, how are, how are we viewing mental health services in these areas and how are we getting help to people rather than having farmers need to, you know, because when are they going to leave the farm? And they work like 70, 80 hours a week, if not more. So it's, it's not going to be easy for them to leave and go to an appointment, especially if it's 50 miles away. Especially if it's 50 miles away.
- [15:46]
Amanda Powers
Right.
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Audrey McDougall
And finding a therapist is hard enough. Even if you live in a city, that process can be very complicated. So I think, you know, what we do at farmnet is really unique in terms of getting, getting that support to the farmers where they're at.
- [16:00]
Amanda Powers
Well, I'm surprised to hear that you're saying that 90%. I understand. You're just saying that they might talk to family or friends as opposed to a therapist, but that's a much higher number than I was expecting. So at least they're talking to someone.
- [16:10]
Audrey McDougall
To someone. Absolutely.
- [16:11]
Amanda Powers
Which will get the ball rolling. Hopefully to talk to a professional.
- [16:14]
Audrey McDougall
Yeah.
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Amanda Powers
So that's great. I'd love for you to tell us about a couple of. And you can maybe both share this. Some success stories or just some. Maybe some hurdles some of your clients have gotten over.
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Audrey McDougall
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
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Adam Howell
So we've had a lot of success over the years and on a variety of issues. Like I said, we're a very broad program. We work on a lot of different things from beginning farming to retirement. But I would say the ones that stick out in my mind personally, there have been a lot of really great succession planning cases that we've helped out with. Some of the issues that are involved in succession planning may not be so obvious to people when they're thinking about it, like intergenerational conflict communication. That's really where our model brings in the social workers and family consultants to help facilitate those difficult discussions. Because a lot of times farmers don't like to think about, you know, the end of the career or how to pass the baton or maybe aren't as accepting of the newer ideas on how to run the business from the younger generation. So it's not just the legal or tax implications of succession planning and turning over the business in retirement. It's also that communication piece and really facilitating an open, honest conversation so that everybody on the same page, especially when there's different members of the family or different areas of the operation that have different people with different levels of involvement, you know, and different expectations for the future. So I think about succession planning, but really there's a whole host of others, you know, transitioning a farm from maybe one type of commodity to another. We know that a lot of dairies that have been smaller mid size have actually moved into other types of commodities as a means of maintaining their productivity and keeping the farm in operation. So dairy to beef, things of that nature. So helping make that transition to where a farm can take on a different type of opportunity but still thrive. And so we like to see that as much as anything else.
- [18:09]
Audrey McDougall
Yeah. And I will just add to what Adam said. You know, when I think about success in the cases that I've helped with it, really, to me, it's about clients feeling that they know how to address their own stress and they've gained tools in how to do that. So it's not that they're going to use farmnet forever, but they've made some strides in understanding, like, oh, it's okay for me to talk about this. It's okay for me to acknowledge that I'm having a hard time. And one thing pops out in my mind. I recently had a client say to me, you know, I wouldn't have gone to find a therapist if it wasn't, you know, like this, if it wasn't over the phone, the way that we talk every week on the phone. And, you know, it wasn't someone who has the farming background or the farming knowledge that we have through our organization. So just hearing that to me is success like that shows that that person has kind of shifted their mindset on what it looks like to access help and what that help can be for them. So that felt successful to me.
- [19:15]
Amanda Powers
It must be very satisfying, really, to know that you're really making a difference like that. Do you find that as far as the willingness to talk, is there a difference between the younger generation and the older generation, or is it just as difficult across the board?
- [19:28]
Audrey McDougall
You know, it's so interesting that you say like that you bring that up, because I have noticed a difference with the younger generation being slightly more open to talk. But with the older generation, once that trust is built, people open up. People really do. You can tell that they've been wanting to share with someone and they just didn't know how. But another thing that I find really interesting is that younger, the younger generation of farmers coming up, they're experiencing really high rates of mental health problems as well, specifically anxiety. Like, I just read a recent study that, you know, they surveyed young farmers in the Midwest, and 70% of the farmers they surveyed met criteria for an anxiety disorder. And it was something in the 50s for depression. And so these are people who are like 22 to 24 years old who were just returning to the family farm or working on the family farm. And that number really shocked me. But it does track with what we hear from clients at farmnet, where the younger generation is also experiencing their own set of mental health difficulties. So luckily, yes, I do think there's a little bit of a difference there. And I think younger. The younger generation is more likely to talk about it. I think social media has been part of that. But in general, there's a little bit more comfort with sharing about mental health.
- [20:52]
Amanda Powers
So funny you should say social media, because I was just going to say, with the younger generation, that can also be anxiety. And Stress producing.
- [20:58]
Adam Howell
So it kind of works.
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Amanda Powers
True.
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Audrey McDougall
It could be. It could work in both ways. Yeah. Yeah.
- [21:03]
Amanda Powers
So I guess for people, you know, there's always getting over that first hump of just being able to talk to someone. So if someone, a farmer or one of their employees is having an issue, what are the steps they should take?
- [21:15]
Audrey McDougall
Yeah, that's a great question. I would definitely advise, you know, a farmer or a family member to speak to someone. Like, start with someone that you trust and just share to someone in your life about what's going on. I would say start with a trusted individual. It might be the veterinarian that comes to the farm. It might be your doctor. Right. It might not be the first thing you're going to do is call a therapist, but talk to someone and share what's going on. And then I would also definitely recommend the 988 National Hotline. 988 is a number that people can call or text at any time 24, 7. And there will be trained counselors available to talk and to listen to. And so that's a great resource that anyone can access anytime. And in addition to that, obviously calling farmnet as a next step when it comes to getting professional help and seeking out that support from people who really understand agriculture. But yeah, I think just starting with a trusted individual and knowing that your family cares about you, your friends care about you, you know, the people you work with and interact with on a daily basis understand that stress, so it's okay to open up about it.
- [22:30]
Amanda Powers
Do you find that in terms of opening up, do you find that we talked about stigma, but are people still afraid or even ashamed to reach out? And in which case maybe sometimes an Anonymous Like a 988 might be better.
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Audrey McDougall
Yes, I do. I think that's true. I think there is still that shame and embarrassment sometimes, especially when it comes to what we see a lot at farmnet, which is this. It's a combination of financial pressure, financial decision making, business decisions that maybe aren't going well, like maybe the business is struggling and things aren't working out the way that the family hoped. There can be a lot of shame and embarrassment in that, I think, especially in the older generation sometimes if they've been steering the ship and then it's, you know, it's time to take a look at the finances because the younger generation's joining and maybe the picture isn't pretty, you know, what they're looking at. So I think there can be this shame and embarrassment around certain issues that then translates into self Doubt and feelings of low self worth and all the things that we see going along with increased anxiety and depression. Yeah.
- [23:39]
Adam Howell
One thing I'll just mention is that's where our model comes from. It's a learned model where we discovered early on that confidentiality and then going to the farm are key in getting farmers to utilize our services and open up. Because of this, the perceived stigma of maybe going to a service provider in a rural area where other people might know them, we found that it's a much more effective way of getting those services to people if we make sure that they understand that we are completely confidential and that we, we will meet them in their home. You know, we have like this informal saying that the best solutions are found at the kitchen table. And that's where we do a lot of our, of our work is meeting with people where they feel comfortable. And that's what makes us so successful with getting farmers to open up and utilize our services.
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Amanda Powers
So, yeah, I don't think people think about that when they think about mental health like that someone might actually be able to come to you. So I'm sure some of your clients are probably surprised by that.
- [24:39]
Adam Howell
In general, it's not available, you know, a. We're very lucky in New York State that there is a free program where we're willing to send people to the farm because in most places the rural area service gap is too extreme to even have within driving distance sometimes for a farmer to go to a place, let alone have somebody come to see them.
- [24:55]
Audrey McDougall
So, yeah, and the confidentiality piece is huge, like, especially for, you know, when people are already feeling ashamed or embarrassed, you know, if they think that, you know, the ag community is a small community, people are going to hear about this. That can be a barrier sometimes. So we really reiterate that. We emphasize that, you know, everything we do is confidential. Right.
- [25:17]
Amanda Powers
So I guess I want to end here by you giving us your. How do we reach you? What's the best way to get a hold if I'm, if I need assistance? Is it the website? Do I give you a call?
- [25:27]
Adam Howell
I would say you can go to our website, newyorkfarmnet.org or call us. We have a 24. 7 hotline, 1-800-547-3276. And we will always make every effort to get back to folks, usually within one or two days. And if it's, if it's the right fit, we'll set up a free consultation and sign some consultants. And the other thing I'll mention is we have consultants all over the state. So they're local to the area. They know the areas that they're working and they have different specialties. We try to approach the right fit for the right case. But yeah, it's pre in my perfect world, every farmer in New York State, regardless of what their issue is, would give us a call at some point in their operation because we can provide that third party perspective regardless and always find some way to help. So yeah.
- [26:17]
Amanda Powers
Well, Adam, Audrey, it was such a pleasure.
- [26:19]
Audrey McDougall
Thank you both. Thanks so much for coming out.
- [26:21]
Amanda Powers
Of course.
- [26:22]
Audrey McDougall
Thanks.
- [26:23]
Unknown
Farmers, businesses and rural communities are stronger together. Join New York Farm Bureau and be part of the voice that protects and supports agriculture across the state. Get access to valuable benefits, aggressive advocate for policies that matter and connect with a network of farmers just like you. Visit nyfb.org, reach out to your local county farm Bureau or call 1-800-342-4143 and press 0. That's 1-800-342-4443 and press 0 and join today.
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Amanda Powers
Sam.