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New York Farm Bureau News Bytes
#2: Interview with Olivia Fuller on Transitioning the Family Farm - 02-22-2024
00:34:20
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- [00:03]
Steve Ammerman
Farmland transition is so important to farm families and the next generation of farmers. But when is the right time to start moving in that direction? Today on News Bites, we explore that question with someone who just went through the process. Hi, I'm Steve Ammerman, director of communications for New York Farm Bureau. And welcome to News Bites. Olivia Fuller is now the owner of Fuller Acres, a beef farm that continues to diversify in Washington County, New York. Her family is long history on the farm, and now it's her turn to carry on that tradition of working the land and feeding her community. But the process to get there isn't a quick one. Working with her dad, she and her partner navigated that journey and worked through some emotional issues to get there. Well, today Olivia speaks about the past several years and the lessons she learned that can help others looking to go through the process. Hi, Olivia. It's so good to have you on News Bites today, talking about a very personal experience for you as your farm has transitioned from your father and your family to, to you and all that that's meant to you and has brought to your family. So I kind of just wanted to, to dig deep into that and, and start off with simply, you know, tell us a little bit about your farm and your family.
- [01:22]
Olivia Fuller
Yeah, thanks, Steve, for having me. Really excited to be here. So our farm, Fulleracres Farm, is in Washington County, New York, a small town called Fort Ann. I'm the fourth generation farmer to be farming in our valley, which we call Welch Hollow. I come from a farming family on both sides of my family. So on my dad's side, we have been primarily dairy farmers, milking 100 cows for the last three generations. And my mom's side of the family, they were actually corn and soybean and hog farmers in Iowa. So really a deep agricultural root on both sides of my family. And I probably couldn't escape it if I wanted to.
- [02:05]
Steve Ammerman
Well, that's probably, that's probably a good thing. And I know you also do some maple as well. So it really is a diversified farm and it's continuing to diversify. What brought you back to the farm? What made you say, you know what, I want to be that next generation?
- [02:21]
Olivia Fuller
Yeah. I think a lot of different factors came into play bringing me back to the farm. I think it was kind of always kind of in the cards for me, even if I didn't realize it growing up. It's just how I grew up and so deeply immersed in who I am. And it took, you know, going away from the farm for a few years in college and early adulthood, I think to really understand and appreciate that and to kind of see other types of farming. I think growing up, I was just so immersed in dairy farming and didn't really think of there being other ways to farm, at least in, in my immediate region and on my specific farm, because my dad was always a dairy farmer. That's what he wanted to do and who he wanted to be. And then in the, in the late winter and early spring, we made maple syrup. But other than that, we were dairy farmers. So it was, it was hard for me to really picture myself doing anything else on the farm. And my partner, Tom, he has been on our farm working since high school. And so he was always immersed in the farm and playing a really important role. But neither of us were thinking, we're going to be dairy farmers. We love the land. We loved being on the farm, working together, helping my dad. But dairy farming, really, really hard work. And you have to be committed twice a day, milking 365 days a year. You really have to love what you do. And that was a big commitment that I wasn't ready. Ready to take. And so when I left the farm and went to college, I studied communication. I always enjoyed writing. I thought maybe I'll be a magazine editor or something like that, and I'll come back to the farm someday and we'll have more of like a hobby farm. But that's not, that's not what happened. So what happened was I went to college and studied communication. And about a year after finishing my degree, I came across a job for American Farmland Trust. And they are a national agricultural nonprofit working to protect farmland, keep farmers on the land, and promote sound farming practices. And I was just blown away that I could find a job that was both marrying my passion for farming with my, my skills in communication. So I started working, working at that job. And that just really opened so many pathways for me for just seeing different types of agriculture, even just in our state, and seeing, you know, other farms all across the state and different scales, different types of farming, different types of farmers, and especially working more in our, in our next generation kind of programming, just seeing the amount of young and beginning farmers who were eager to get onto the land. And I just, it started to really dawn on me, you know, how, how, how much I had back at the farm and that I had this thing that so many people are dreaming of and working so hard to get, you know, access to land. And it just, that combined with my partner studying beef and livestock at Cobleskill and seeing different ways of farming in that, in that setting just kind of all came together and got us thinking, maybe we can come back to the farm and we can both help my dad and take things in a slightly different direction.
- [05:52]
Steve Ammerman
And that's what you did. I mean, you saw an opportunity and like you said, you were privileged enough to have that opportunity. And it really was just about timing too, I think, a lot of it. So you, you went to your dad and I'm sure it wasn't just like a, a one time conversation that you had with him. But, but your, your first step was trying to figure out what, where you and your partner wanted to take the farm, but also respect your father as well in that process.
- [06:21]
Olivia Fuller
Yeah, absolutely. And it, it's really evolved over time. So when we started to have these conversations, you know, I think back on it and I was thinking and had ideas around like starting a farmstead creamery. I was thinking, we already have a dairy, how great would it be to have like a farmstead creamery? I love cheese. But as I started to really like start to explore that path, I realized that takes a lot of investment and infrastructure. And you know, we started to have conversations around the table about different, you know, ways to diversify the farm and bring us into the farm business. And I'd say that the conservation easement was really the catalyst for us having those conversations. So around 2016, my dad had found out about an opportunity to apply for the state's farmland protection program through our local land trust Agricultural Stewardship Association. He attended a workshop and was really excited about that and also aligned to the work I was doing, which is just the cool timing of I was learning about farmland conservation and he was also just interested in doing it for our farm. So we kind of walked down that path together and it got us talking about, you know, what, what else could the farm be if we, if we do this thing that keeps our farm in farming forever, that really sparks the longer term conversation. And so we start talking about ways we could potentially partner you. Thinking about like maybe doing some dairy. But then what really the idea that really stuck was started to transition to beef. So the great thing about that was we already had the cows and you know, we had a mixed herd of mostly Holsteins, but also some Jerseys and Brown Swifts. But we, we weren't really needing to grow our dairy herd at that point. My dad had a pretty solid herd. We were trying to stay small anyways, so it just made sense to start breeding those dairy animals to beef breeds and so we started to have Angus and Hereford crosses born on the farm. And that was a way, with very little input, to be able to start to grow a new business enterprise. And we always had a couple of beef on the side for ourselves. But this was our first foray into actually selling meat from the farm. And so that was an opportunity for me to really use the skills that I had and the background I had and in marketing and communications and. And also just, you know, being willing to go out and talk to people and ask questions to learn about, you know, what does it take to actually sell meat from the farm and to have it USDA processed and how do you stop those marketing channels and. And all of that. So I kind of took that on, and that was my way of, you know, really putting some skin in the game, like you're giving time and energy to starting to grow this business. And at that point, I wasn't really getting anything out of it besides the fact that I was on the farm and helping my dad and enjoying it in that way. But I think that's something for the next generation to keep in mind, is you might have to do some things that are giving of yourself and of your time to help the senior generation while you're figuring out what you want to do. There might be some give and take there where you're not immediately going to profit off of what you're doing, but being able to contribute to the farm and kind of show what else is possible can be a really good way to go.
- [09:50]
Steve Ammerman
And that really was, you know. You know, maybe not an easy process, but a long process to start making that. That actual transition of what you produce, what you market, how the income streams are changing. But then comes the next step of that transition where you become the owner and you took over the land and those responsibilities as well, while also your dad has remained a part of that. And again, I know that's never an easy process. You did have assistance from the land. Is your legacy program, a program that New York Farm Bureau works with, with Nationwide Insurance. Your dad got, I guess, a postcard in the mail that really helped you in the end. Can you talk a little bit about what that process was like?
- [10:38]
Olivia Fuller
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. This has been a very long process in the making, and I think a lot of people understand that with transition planning, and I think that's why a lot of people avoid it, is because it really is a long game. So I'd say our conversations really started around the time that we decided to pursue the conservation easement in 2016 and 2017 when we were awarded. And it was just a slow conversation since then. And in the beginning, we were. We weren't really talking about the actual land transfer. That was a big. That was a big topic. So we took baby steps. We talked about, you know, diversifying the business and getting us to the point where we could be on the farm and living there. We could both be making a living from the land and working off farm as well. So it wasn't that I was, you know, completely, you know, make. I wasn't making a living off the land, but I was able to be here and. And help support the farm business. The Land is your legacy program and the New York Farm Bureau workshop really came at a really critical time for us to be making those bigger decisions. So we had gotten pretty established in growing the beef herd. You know, I was feeling pretty established in the, yes, this is where I want to be, what I want to do. We were starting to also add some different livestock enterprises with pastured pork and some lamb as well. And it got to be the point where the dairy was starting to hinder our ability to move our business forward. And it was also hindering my dad because it was losing money every year. And there's only so many years that you can do that just out of the passion of loving what you do. And you get to the point where you've got to be able to make it, make a decision and change things. So when my dad got the postcard in the mail from New York Farm Bureau for this workshop and told me, hey, there's this transition planning workshop at Washington County Fairgrounds. You want to go? I was absolutely on board. And so it was really helpful to have something that we could go to in person. You know, we've been going through this process over the years of the pandemic, too. So we started this in 2017 and have, you know, continued on through 2020 and all of those challenges. So a lot of service providers couldn't, you know, meet us in person. And we still did receive a lot of support virtually. And I've had a colleague at American Farmland Trust, Kim Bello, who has been kind of a through line for me through this process and has really helped me kind of figure out who to talk to along the way and bounce ideas off of. But the Land is your Legacy program. And that transition workshop came into the picture. I think it was November 2022, and we were still milking cows at that time. I was spending a lot of time helping with the dairy farm, as was My partner and we were giving a lot of our energy into just keeping the dairy going. My dad had had a hip replacement surgery and it was just physically having. Having a hard time keeping up with the demands of being a full time dairy farmer. So when this workshop came about and we were able to go into the room and see, I think especially for him to see other farmers who were in a similar position, that it's not just him that, you know, having these challenges and needing to, you make this next decision for his business and his livelihood. I think that really, that really helped. And that also gave us the introduction to Henry Monshin through the Land Is yous Legacy program. And you know, from that point on, we're also connected through Scott Keys at New York Farm Bureau, kind of helped us get connected and get tapped into that program. And then we really embarked on making some decisions to really transition the, the farm in the, in the sense of the land. And so, yeah, that's a really complicated process. And so it took meeting with attorneys and, you know, other advisors, business advisors. And just what would you say, what.
- [14:54]
Steve Ammerman
Would you say is. Was perhaps the biggest challenge, you know, was it that the logistics, the legalities, was it the emotional side of things, in particular for your father? You know, what, what was perhaps the, the hardest pitfall that you had to get across?
- [15:11]
Olivia Fuller
That's a great question. I would say the biggest challenge was the emotional piece. I mean, the logistics are also challenging and just needing to be patient and persevere through the hoops that you need to jump through and all of the ducks you need to get in a row. But really having the grace with your family to go down this process and to confront things like mortality and that this is a really big decision. And being the next generation, you might be really excited about all the new things you're going to do and taking the farm in a new direction. We have to remember that the senior generation is winding down from a lifetime of hard work and all the dedication they've given to the land and what they've built. And so it's really important for me that I'm also, as we take things in a new direction, that we're also honoring all of what my dad has put into the farm business. The one thing I'm really proud of is that right now we are renovating what was our milking parlor into our self serve farm store. And so we are really taking a building that he has spent so many years, decades, seven decades of his. Well, not that long because he actually built the milking Parlor in the late 70s into the early 80s. And so he had been on the farm milking cows in a tie stall barn long before that. But the milking parlor was really his kind of vision for the future when he was my age. So when he was taking things over, he designed his melting parlor and his freestyle barn, and that was his kind of his addition to the farm and the mark that he left. And to be able to come in as the next generation and now take that building and give it new life as our self serve farm store is really exciting. We're even using boards that he milled for the original barn and we're using those as our boards on our wall of the farm store. So being able to really keep that legacy alive and give it new life. So it's not just a building that is sitting empty and vacant and that we're actually using that and building on that and, and just really carrying that legacy forward. And that's really been important for me.
- [17:30]
Steve Ammerman
Really honoring the past, you know, in that way. And your dad is still involved in the farm too. It's not like he just stepped away.
- [17:37]
Olivia Fuller
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So we're, we're really lucky and grateful that he is able to and wanting to be involved in the farm business. And I'd say that's another thing to really keep in mind as well, is how can you continue to work together if that's what both sides of the family desire? And so I know I'm talking a lot about intergenerational farm transition within families because that's my experience and that's my lens. But it's also really challenging for, and maybe even more challenging for a new generation who doesn't have a farm family they're coming into, and for those senior farmers who don't have a new generation in their family that is either able or willing or wanting to come into the farm business. So that I think is even more challenging when you're not even, you know, in the same, in the same room together and growing up together and having that family connection is how do you, how do you bridge that divide with somebody entirely new to your business? And so that's a huge challenge. But it is something that I think is definitely possible to work around and to make those connections, especially for young farmers who get out there in the community and get to know the farms in their area, attend farm bureau meetings, get to know the farmers who are in their communities and be willing to. I think some of the same principles apply. Being willing to kind of step in and Help, you know, get involved with the senior generation and have a little bit of like a mentorship between Gen1 generation to the next. And you might find an opportunity presents itself to kind of be able to access land in that way. And we have, through American Farmland Trust, we have a farmland Finder website through our Farmland Regeneration New York program where there's hundreds of farm properties listed in New York State that are looking for farmers to lease or purchase land.
- [19:36]
Steve Ammerman
Well, I mean, it's interesting what you're saying though, but no transition is, is like any other. They all have their, their challenges and opportunities. And I would assume in some instances for some farm families it might be easier to transition if you're not a part of the family. You know, we've heard stories that were. It's incredibly difficult within the family. But it's important, I think if nothing else, that like you're doing here, you're talking about it, you're raising awareness about that there are options available and there's help available, which is really important. And I think people can learn just from your story and how, you know, you've moved through things and hopefully they can try and find something in your story that will help them in theirs as well as they move through. And as you look now, you know, you're, you're the main farm owner on the farm. What you see as, you know, maybe a challenge that you hadn't thought about prior. And what do you see as your opportunity as you're looking to grow in a new direction?
- [20:36]
Olivia Fuller
Yeah. Thank you. I'd say, you know, farming is ripe with challenges, but I think having the, the right attitude to face them is, is everything, I'd say a challenge that I face as, as the next generation. And I think a lot of farmers are increasingly in this position where they are not only farming, they're also working additional jobs. And I was really lucky in the fact that I was working for an organization that was supportive of agriculture. And just kind of the perfect storm of when I came back to the farm more full time was 2020 and we were able to transition to working remotely. And I don't think I would have been able to grow the business in the way that I have if I didn't have that flexibility to be on the farm and doing things during the workday and have that kind of flexibility to have a full time job and be farming. And I think that just in the balance of that time is the real challenge because I want to give 100% to everything I do and I want to give 100% to the farm. I want to give 100% to my job. And so just finding that striking a balance between, you know, what, what I can do in a given day and where the seasons are really the most important, what seasons are really important for me to focus on my off farm work and what seasons are really important for me to really dig into farming. That's been a learning curve for me and one that I think I've started to hit my stride in, but is always a challenge. And I think that's going to be the case for more farmers in the next generation who are balancing off farm jobs and kind of wearing many hats. And I see a lot of farmers who are really taking advantage of the age of social media and especially on Instagram, there's a lot of farmers who are kind of able to tap into their communication skills in that way. And that's something I'm trying to do. And I think it's an opportunity to really share my story and connect with the consumer audience directly. So that's been something that I've been really excited about. I think also just bringing people out to the farm is a huge opportunity for me. This year. As a dairy farm, we weren't really like a public venue and my dad is also a more private person. I think that's one area where we, where we have different kind of values and approaches to farming. And I'm really excited to kind of start to dip my toe in the water of having some on farm events and bringing people out to see the farm and see our practices and what we're doing on the land and to make that connection to the land available to others, while also still respecting the fact that my dad also lives here and is also part of the farm business and we are a working farm. So I'm not trying to be completely agritourism, but I want to start to open the doors and bring more people in to see our farm and get to connect with us. And so that's something that the Farm Store is going to help us bring. And that's also something that virtually social media and our email newsletters and all these communication vehicles have really kind of helped with as well. Just really making that authentic connection to our customers, to our fellow farmers and greater community. Just really kind of being able to show our face and what we're all about. And I think that's been a huge opportunity.
- [24:00]
Steve Ammerman
Well, as a professional communicator and a professional farmer, I mean, do you have one tip for, for someone who may be interested in, in, in marketing in a different way or, or you know, using social media in a, in a more expressive way to, to tell their story. What, what is, is there something that's really worked for you or something that's really caught on that, that you've, you've tried to replicate?
- [24:24]
Olivia Fuller
Yeah, I would say to really just be authentic and to not get caught up in perfection. And there are creators who have like just, you know, really perfect, pristine shooting and they're, they're just really great at filming themselves. And it can feel like I'm never going to be that good. My videos aren't going to be, you know, that beautiful and, and that crisp and, you know, that articulate, but still do it. And your authentic self and sharing your story and sharing behind the scenes what you're doing on a day to day basis, that may not seem that interesting to you, but it's really interesting to your customers and to people who don't have the experience of growing up on a farm. And so all these little like, mundane things that you think it's not that big of a deal. It is a big deal to other people and it just shows who you are and what you are doing every day to, to feed people, to grow food, to steward the land. And that is so important to share with other people.
- [25:24]
Steve Ammerman
Absolutely. You said it very, very well. And I think the more people that understand it and see it and, and realize how, how we raise food in this country, that only can benefit not just your farm, but all farms. So I think it's really important in what you're doing and you know, just to kind of, you know, wrap things up as you, as you look at the experience that you've been through over the past several years and you know, what's on the horizon, why is it so important for you? And I'm sure it's really, you know, hit you in many times in many different ways to know that you're continuing that legacy for your family. And as you look through this process and know it's happening, you know what. Can you put that into words?
- [26:07]
Olivia Fuller
Yeah. I think that a moment that really, really made everything worth it for me this summer was being able to watch my dad go out onto the lake in a fishing boat that he bought and be able to just take a day and catch fish and relax. And I was just so honored to be able to watch that transition happen. Because growing up we didn't go on vacation. We went maybe three places in my childhood we went to, and my, my family didn't Even go with me on this one. I went to Disney World in fifth grade with a family friend. We went to. I would have visited my mom's side of the family, which was going back to another farm just across the country. And then we went to New Hampshire to go to the beach and we didn't, we just didn't take time away from the farm and really, you know, take time to relax. It just made such an impact on me to be able to watch my dad through the, through this process, to be able to start to have some time to relax. And so this summer he bought a little aluminum fishing boat. He got his fishing license and went out on the water and invited me to go with him. So we went out and we caught fish and just had such a, such a nice time. And that made it all worth it for me because I've just seen him work so hard all of my years growing up and it was a good reminder to me and something that I value as a farmer to make time to do things off the farm and things for, for myself and that replenish me and keep me going. So I think I'm excited to farm in a, in a new way where we still are working really hard. We still have days where we go from early morning to late night, but really keeping that balance in mind and really trying to intentionally take some time for ourselves to be able to enjoy what we're doing, to, you know, really build in building more of that like, holistic kind of approach to farming where we, we work, you know, we work hard, but we also take time to enjoy ourselves and appreciate what we, what we have here. And I think that going to be what keeps us sustainable long term is being able to do that and to really appreciate and enjoy what we have here.
- [28:34]
Steve Ammerman
When we were talking the other day, you said something that was really great, that it was nice to see your dad realize he could still be a farmer even though he wasn't a dairy farmer, and to make that realization that there was still maybe another way of doing things, but he still innately a farmer and, and, but also now he's able to enjoy a few other things in life as well and find that balance. And I think that's a really, really touching story.
- [29:01]
Olivia Fuller
Yeah, thank you. I, yeah, I'm so happy to see him be able to, to stay in farming and stay as an active, you know, part of our farm team. I don't know what I would do without, without him running a lot of our tractor work and without his insight into the animal health and he's still very much an active part of our farm. And I'm really glad that we can have that situation where we're farming together and having this overlap and being able to see that the farm continues without being a dairy, that we're still farmers and that we're still be able to work together and enter this new chapter. And it was really great to sit down at the attorney's office and to sign this paperwork. And to hear him say this feels like a huge weight off my shoulders. He was really, really happy when we finally were able to do that and said it was one of the best days of his life. And just being able to get from that point where we were sitting around the table and not sure where things were going to go. It was never contentious, but there was times where we just weren't sure what the next step would be. It took a long time for him to feel like he was ready to make a change from being a dairy farmer and to be able to imagine being able to do anything else. I think there's a lot of fear wrapped up in that of I'm going to have to get a job in town. And so that was always an underlying goal of mine, to just make sure that he didn't feel like he had to do that, that he had a place on the farm and that we could work together and that we this and that. That I think is really important to have, like a shared goal or a vision. So things are going to change. All along the journey of a farm transition, like, I learned early on, we're not going to be a creamery, we're not going to make cheese. I learned I don't have time to go to farmers markets as much as I love them. So I've got to do my marketing in a way that brings people to the farm or, or I also do some delivery. So I had to make. Make my marketing work for me. But we also had the shared goal of my dad, you know, wanting to be able to continue farming to the ability that he could and want us both wanting to stay on the land and be. We be farming together. And so that really drove us to, you know, find a plan that would enable us to do that. And I'm really proud that we have. We've kind of made that happen. And we both have made some compromises along the way. And I think that it has really, you know, that's really just strengthened our relationship and has really helped, you know, helped us work together, is, you know, coming. Coming together around the table and just moving things forward inch by inch. And I like to say that this type of transition process, it moves at the speed of trust. It's going to take the time that it takes, and you just have to keep showing up, even if in the early part of the process, it feels like you're just saying the same things and you're just. But you're continuing to talk, and that's the important thing. You might not be moving leaps and bounds ahead every time you sit at the table or that you have those conversations. I had a lot of conversations side by side in the milking parlor. And so I think that's also a lesson to just meet people where they are. And so we had a lot of conversations just in the pit of the parlor, you know, thinking about, you know, well, what if we tried this and, you know, just kind of moving things along in the formal meetings, but also outside of them and just having those. Having that open line of communication, I think is so critical.
- [32:48]
Steve Ammerman
Yeah. And I love that line. Moving in the speed of trust. That's a good thing. And not just farmland transition. That's a good lesson in life. So, so. Well, Olivia, thank you so much for, for talking about this and being so open about the process. And, you know, we wish you the best of luck on the beef side of things, as well as maple. I mean, we're in the thick of maple season, so I hope that's going well.
- [33:12]
Olivia Fuller
Thank you so much, Steve. I really appreciate it. And thank you for sharing my story and for the work that the Farm Bureau does to help farmers advocate and to connect with each other and to access programs like the Land is your legacy program. It's really important.
- [33:28]
Steve Ammerman
Well, thank you so much, and we wish you and your. Your father and your partner all the best. We really do appreciate Olivia being so open about the farm transition. And if you want to learn more about Olivia and her farm in Fort Ann, check out our website@fulleracres.com and if you want to learn more about land as your legacy, you can find that information courtesy of Nationwide Insurance on their website. And we've also spoken to Henry Monshein on a previous News Bites podcast about the program. So take a listen. Well, thanks for listening today. If you have ideas for a future podcast, just send me a message at New York Farm Bureau. I also want to thank Seth Moser Katz for putting today's episode together. Until next time, make sure to thank a farmer for all that they do.