← New York Farm Bureau News Bytes
New York Farm Bureau News Bytes
#4: Interview with Kymara Lonergan on Exploring Emu Farming in the Hudson Valley - 03-21-2024
00:36:33
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- [00:02]
Steve Ammerman
New York State is blessed to have a rich diversity of farms all across New York. And today you're going to learn about one that raises flightless birds and is looking to soar. Hi, I'm Steve Ammerman, director of communications for New York Farm Bureau and welcome to News Bites. Camara Lonergan farms about 30 acres in Ulster County, New York in the Hudson Valley. Her specialty is raising fresh herbs and flowers that are used in soaps and a whole bunch of other different products that are, that she produces and sells on her farm. But she also raises emu. These are large birds that are very similar to ostrich. Her farm is a no kilt farm, but she's an expert on raising these animals that can be used for meat as well as for their fat, which she will explain today. She's confident that as more people learn about emu, raising them will take off. Hi Kamara, it's so great to see you and have a great conversation. We met recently at the New York Farm Bureau State Convention where you were showcasing your great work and what you sell. And it's a pleasure to have you with us on the Newsbytes podcast.
- [01:13]
Kamara Lonergan
Well, thank you. I'm really excited to be able to talk about the farm and Farm Bureau and farming in Ulster County, New York. So thanks for having me.
- [01:22]
Steve Ammerman
You're more than welcome. Well then let's start with a little bit about your farm. What do you do and where is it located? And just kind of give us a rundown of your, your farm.
- [01:32]
Kamara Lonergan
My farm is a, is a small farm. It's a. We have 33.75 acres in Ulster park and it was a not, it was not a farm. When I, when I moved here, I recreated basically from stories from my family what my family farm looked like or at least a, a part of it which had always been my, my really my lifelong ambition. So because of the terrain here in Ulster park, which equals rocks, we have a lot of rocks here. I have to diversify what I do and I grow several different things and I have different animals. But we are a no kill farm and the animals do earn their keep. We by being models and, and for advertising of, of what we grow to sell and the products we create. So we've been here about six years. Alice and Gina Emu are the big shots on the farm. They, they rule the roost. And we have four horses. They are their purposes for a Lakota Sioux based horse handling and riding program. And we have our cattle dog Poppy who takes care of everyone. So we grow saffron which we just got a high tunnel grant for, and edible flowers and herbs that are naturally dried and sent off to a chemist up in upstate New York. And we create our bath products and skincare products that are all FDA compliant. We don't create them here on the farm. They're, they're lab created and, and cruelty free. They're leaping money. Certified, not tested on animals.
- [03:23]
Steve Ammerman
And it looks like you have one of your animals behind you in that picture that we're seeing. Who is that?
- [03:28]
Kamara Lonergan
That's Alice. Alice is running in her, in her area. That's a photo of her running because that's what Emu loved to do is, is run in spurts. So that, that's, that's my buddy Alice. She's the model for Vampire Emu, one of our skincare products.
- [03:47]
Steve Ammerman
Well, before we hear more about Alice and Emu's, I would like to explore just a little bit more about your background. You said you've had the farm for six years, but farming goes way back in your family. You know, what is your family history in agriculture?
- [04:01]
Kamara Lonergan
Farming goes way back in my family, back to maybe the late 1800s, early 1900s. Few people realize that, that I, that I know, my associates, et cetera. But my great grandpa came from the Lake Como, Italy area and he bought a large parcel of land in the northwest corner of Connecticut. They grew, they raised hogs, grew hay. But the big thing they did was raise game, game birds, quail, pheasant. And my grandfather was one of the product testers for L.L. bean in the way back, and he was a guide throughout the Berkshires for fishing and hunting. But they raised the, the birds for, not only for hunting, but for eating. And the family lived communally on that area in the northwest corner and produced just about everything they ate, even their own wine, cheeses, we made maple syrup, et cetera. And that went on until around the 1930s, when, you know, people went, were in the military. Life changed. But I always was determined to bring the farm back. And I grew up in Litchfield County, Connecticut, in a completely agricultural community. So I spent all of my time as a child with farm animals. That's what I did. And friends who were working in dairy, they had dairy operations because that's primarily what we were in that area of Litchfield County.
- [05:42]
Steve Ammerman
So what was it about farming that you said, you know, I really need to continue this? And why, what is it that you enjoy about farming?
- [05:51]
Kamara Lonergan
I, I love the land and because my family, the stories that my family, I'm, I'm the One that listened, you know, the kid that listened to those stories that were handed down and the stories of the old farmers in Litchfield County, Connecticut. And it's, it's a real, you know, the land is such a gift to us and to be able to be on the land and be part of it and to see what it yields and what you can make it yield is an amazing part of life that I never want to give up. And the animals, whether you raise them for meat or, you know, in my case, we're a no kill farm, but they still have a purpose. They're your partners on that land. So every day you get up, you're dealing with those animals, you're dealing with the vegetation of the land, the agriculture, and it's rewarding. And I feel there is a very, very fine line between art and farming, you know, art and science, because farming is such a great art if you're a creative person. And I just could never spend my life without being able to create something from the land and honor, you know, being a good steward of the land.
- [07:13]
Steve Ammerman
I think that's beautiful how you put it. And you know, really that is at the foundation of what farmers do and you know, just being stewards. I also love, I haven't heard of someone, but it makes total sense of calling your animals partners because you couldn't do what you do without, without the, the, the livestock and the emu. So let's talk about your partners. How did you get involved in raising emus?
- [07:35]
Kamara Lonergan
So it's a very weird story, but.
- [07:38]
Steve Ammerman
I like weird stories. They're more interesting.
- [07:41]
Kamara Lonergan
When I was a, a child and probably you remember the show, many people do, there was a show called Doctari and it was about animal safari and there was an emu on Doctari. And I, I was so enamored with, with the emu that I always swore I would have an emu as I was young, you know, I didn't really know you could farm them. And really it wasn't until around the 1980s that the American Emu association advocated and, and managed to get the, the USDA to recognize emu as livestock. So I didn't know, I just knew I wanted an emu. And once, you know, I was able to get my farm, the very first thing I did was get two emu. I figured, I can't have one, it'll be lonely. So I told my husband that I knew everything there was to know about emu and I didn't know anything about racing emu. So we picked them up in Vermont. Brought em, brought em here. They were chicks and it was just a, it clicked for me. It's like a calling. I don't know why, but emu have always been a calling for me and I relate really well to them in their space.
- [09:01]
Steve Ammerman
How many do you have?
- [09:02]
Kamara Lonergan
I only have two right now. I have two females coming. I, because of my age, honestly I don't feel I want a thousand emu and I do know someone that has a thousand emu in Texas. They really do. They have a very successful farm. But for me four is enough because each, each laying season each female can lay 20 to 40 eggs. So that's a lot of eggs with two breeder pair and I will have the four and, and the farm. The rest of the things I do is grow, you know, my saffron and make my. So it's a great niche for me and my land.
- [09:41]
Steve Ammerman
So what's involved in raising an emu? What are they like in terms of their, their character and, and, and what do you need to do to be a successful emu farmer?
- [09:53]
Kamara Lonergan
They need, they need the right amount, a correct amount of land. They don't need a ton of land. They aren't like cattle. Um, you can micro farm with emu, especially if you intend to raise them for meat and oil if you, you don't need acres and acres of land. So once for me, because I'm looking at creating breeder pairs, I handled them quite a bit. I even carried them around in my pockets when they were chicks. And so for me they're almost bonded to me. They do get a little bit crabby, the males, in the fall when the days shorten, that is when the breeding season begins. So they're looking for a girlfriend. They don't have a girlfriend, they have me. They're getting a little frustrated and one gets a little hissy at me and I have to, you know, kind of keep that one away from me. They take it out on me, but that's only for about a week. Most of the time. 98% of the time the males, since they raised the chicks are very friendly and not, not really a bird to be afraid of. Although they possess qualities you should certainly respect. Thankful. In our area, in, in our area of the country we have pool and grain to get our feed from. They are a family run company and they, they in my opinion and they've worked well for me, they produce a great quality product. The feed stores are happy to order it for me and pretty much that's what the birds eat. It's called rati. And otherwise they forage on all kinds of things, including creatures that may come into their area, such as spotted lanternfly. So that's a, that's a plus.
- [11:52]
Steve Ammerman
That's an invasive species that's moved into New York. That's really. Can be detrimental to a lot of crops and native plants and the vineyards. Yes.
- [12:03]
Kamara Lonergan
So emu like to chow down on them and they certainly. We don't have many snakes in their area anymore. And the frogs run and hide. You know, they are omnivores. They're. They're very easy to clean up after because the. Their feed does not stay in their system long. It doesn't build up ammonia. They have a very short digestive system. And you can use their manure immediately on your crops for fertilizing. It will not do.
- [12:36]
Steve Ammerman
You do that as, as well you use.
- [12:38]
Kamara Lonergan
I do on my saffron. So it's great because in the fall I can take their straw with that has manure in it and cover my well after I harvest my saffron, I can cover it to protect it from the snow. Cause we don't lift our bulbs and it's got emu manure in it. So it, it's fertilizing everything as well as protecting it. But they are wonderful to me. They are very wonderful birds to interact with and on a daily basis.
- [13:10]
Steve Ammerman
And you know, most people are listening to this versus seeing this podcast and if they don't know what an emu is, I mean, maybe to. To me the, the closest bird like is an ostrich. But. But they're very different. I would imagine they are all related.
- [13:27]
Kamara Lonergan
The emu is the cousin of the ostrich and. And the emu is also related to the cassowary and they're all ratites. The ostrich is the largest bird in the world and the emu is the second largest bird. So they are all flightless birds and they. Some of them are white. There are white emu, but that does not mean they're albino. And then there's the normal emu, as you see behind me. That's like a grayish blackish color. But they lay a small, a bit of a smaller leg egg than an ostrich. And it is teal in color with a rough, a very rough shape to it. A rough edge, not edge texture. So it makes it very good in handcrafts. People use them to create egg sculptures and such.
- [14:21]
Steve Ammerman
Hmm, very interesting. So as you said that, you know, you raise them for the oil. Some raise them for meat, which is actually becoming more popular because of the tick borne illness known as Alpha gal syndrome, which is essentially creating an allergy to red meat. So people are turning more to emu meat, is that correct?
- [14:45]
Kamara Lonergan
Yes. First of all, my emu are not raised for oil because you can't get oil without the meat. So they have to be processed to get the oil. A lot of people don't realize that the oil is, is rendered is. So the hump of the bird and the drumsticks have big particles of fat on there that is rendered. That fat is removed and is shipped to the refinery and there it is processed in, into the oil. The meat is the only red meat, theoretically, you know, the only red meat that a person who has been bit by the Lone Star tick and develops an allergy to that enzyme of that tick. The allergy is called alpha gal allergy. That is the meat that the people claim they can eat that does not give them a severe anaphylactic reaction that mammalian meat does. So emu meat is a red meat, but it is not a dark. It's not the same as turkey. It's a very different type of meat. And there's a huge. We can't even supply the demand. We need more emu farmers now in, in New York State so that we can supply the demand because this tick is moving up from the south and it is indeed in New York State.
- [16:08]
Steve Ammerman
So you know, emu farming is a small part of New York agriculture and as you said, you would love to, to see it grow and there are opportunities there. What is the footprint like for emu agriculture in New York State?
- [16:21]
Kamara Lonergan
Well, right now there is, there's about. You mean how many farmers are there?
- [16:28]
Steve Ammerman
Yeah. And how many birds are you are. You may not know an exact number, but do you have an idea of, of the number?
- [16:35]
Kamara Lonergan
There is about 100. I would say right now in New York State there has to be a hundred producers of emu birds. The problem the farmers are having is the same problem that anyone else that's trying to get their animals processed. There aren't enough processors. But I have a solution. I feel that if we could get together and form a co op such as Vermont did some years ago, it's disbanded now. We could, as emu farmers in New York State, work together, get our birds up to New Hampshire where they do process emu and get some of that meat and get, get ourselves known as emu meat and oil producers once again in New York State.
- [17:29]
Steve Ammerman
That would, that would be a great opportunity to see that grow and you know, obviously there is great potential, like you said, for the meat as well as the oil. And that's something that I know I wasn't familiar with before you and I had that conversation and met that emus produce oil that can be used in, in, in different ways. What exactly is emu oil and, and how do you use it on your farm?
- [17:52]
Kamara Lonergan
Emu oil is high in all of the omega fatty acids and it is very similar to the makeup of the human skin. So when you put that emu oil on your skin, it is going to pass quickly through the barrier and it is, it is very healing and it imparts a healing quality and it's, it's very nutritious, shall we say. That's, that's because of the composition of the oil. How do I use it on my farm? If I have an injured animal, I'm putting emu oil on that animal. How do I make money from it? I have it in my emu oil products. Now the thing is, in the world of emu oil, there are some no good nicks who come from away and they create fake emu oil out of vegetable oil, et cetera. And the consumer doesn't, doesn't realize this. How would you know if it was emu oil or, I don't know, olive oil mixed with Wesson oil? You wouldn't know. You take the word of who is selling it to you. So an entity exists. The American Emu association has an oil certification program and it is very strict. The committee reviews the composition of what the person is trying to sell and the oil has a seal on it. It says American emu oil certified oil and it's all USA made. My oil, since I'm the vice president of the emu association, I know all the emu farmers in the country. So I call them up and I say, hey, you know, I'd like to buy some oil from you and I know exactly where it's coming from. And they're all, you know, old school farmers that have been around a long time since the beginning of the emu boom and have hung in there. So emu oil can be used for so many different, different things. This, I'm not talking about eating, I'm talking about cli, clinically on your skin or, or in, in a product. In fact, we have a dry product, a horse powder that has emu oil in it. We found a way to add emu oil to it without it being clumpy. So it has tons of uses or you can just bottle it and you know, sell it as, as it is.
- [20:24]
Steve Ammerman
Then is the market like, where, where would people purchase this? Or I guess obviously you, they can go directly to you to purchase the products, clearly. But is that a, a growing market as well?
- [20:36]
Kamara Lonergan
Well, the pioneer, in my opinion of the emu oil market was Montana Emu Ranch. And they have been around E, you can always find them. They're, they're in like the vitamin stores. They've done an awesome job of, of marketing their product. But there are other people, there's people on Etsy, there's people on Amazon. We, we don't sell the oil, we're selling blended products. But the thing is that I, I feel the consumers have to, to do their research and be aware of who you're buying it from, especially on Amazon and that sort of thing. Because the whole purpose of the emu oil is the extreme benefit to the skin. And if you're putting your money out and buying something that's not pure, you know, emu oil, then it defeat, it's defeating the purpose. It's just so the consumer needs to be made, you know, needs to do their research and make sure you're buying the right product.
- [21:43]
Steve Ammerman
That's always important. You know, this is something that, you know, if there are growing markets, farms are always looking at ways to diversify and, you know, add to what they do. If a farmer is interested in raising emus, you know, let's talk a little bit about that. We'll start with the challenges. You know, what are, what's some of the advice you would have to another farmer who would be interested in raising the birds?
- [22:07]
Kamara Lonergan
Well, first of all, in, in, in our area of New York State, one of the things I want the farmers to know is that silvopasture, if your farm is in silvopasture, emu are the exactly most perfect creatures for that because they are grazers and they would love to go amongst the trees and eat your bugs and wild berries and worms and such.
- [22:35]
Steve Ammerman
They are perfect silvopasture animals and silvopasture just for people. That's literally pasture being pasture raised using, incorporating woods and forests as well, correct? Yeah.
- [22:45]
Kamara Lonergan
So, and not only that, they're eating these, this, your berries and things that are, you've planted these trees, now they're fertilizing your pasture. So the challenge we have in New York State is ice. This is my challenge. When they're, when it's icy, the birds don't have a lot of traction. You have to keep them in a smaller area My, my birds. I devised a. A tent that has a light cover so that the sun comes in. It's almost like a high tunnel and it melts everything. And they're nice and warm in there during the day and I don't have to worry about them putting a leg out. Cause if they put a leg out they, they. You can't fix it. They have to be put down. So the ice drives me crazy. I, you know, I'm, I don't like that. Although bigger farmers they. You can put your, you know, lime out your barn lime, et cetera. And the birds are fine. Some farmers don't offer them shelter. They. Because emu make themselves sort of an igloo in the, in the snow. I have shelter for mine. It's just my choice. But I know many farmers that. That do not Raccoons carry a bacteria that, that will if the bird because they peck at everything. So if they peck at the feces of a raccoon that bacteria goes into the spinal cord and causes a neurological. Fatal neurological problem. They must be wormed with ivermectin pour over cattle wormer and you put a bit of that on the back of their neck. Of course, I'm not a vet. I'm just telling you, you know my experience and that helps. They have to be vaccinated against West East West Nile just like your horses do and everything else because we're getting more and more mosquitoes around here. There is a vet, believe it or not, there's an emu vet here. He's from Australia and His name is Dr. Gunsberg from early vet. He. He's been really great with my emu. And so there is hope for farmers that way. Otherwise emu are just super easy keepers. You know you. There's not. The challenge is the, the landscape. You know, fencing has to be 6 foot high because you don't want them to escape. If they get out in our Ulster county woods, they're going to keep on going. Some hunters going to think he's having a nightmare because they will keep running through the woods. They run about 30 miles an hour. It once they get. Get a full head of steam it's.
- [25:28]
Steve Ammerman
A pretty good clip.
- [25:29]
Kamara Lonergan
It is. And they can jump five foot tall, you know, five feet straight up.
- [25:33]
Steve Ammerman
Wow.
- [25:34]
Kamara Lonergan
But generally if they have their supply of food and water, they aren't gonna. They don't really go anywhere. Cause that's what they're looking for. Right. They. They'll take off to look for more food and water. So I keep mine have Food all day. I don't feed em in increments. And the other challenge is, you know, getting them processed, if that's what your, your goal is.
- [26:00]
Steve Ammerman
And like you said, that's a, that's a challenge for a lot of, of livestock producers these days of having that, that capability with just the limited amount that, that we have in New York State. But you know, this conversation today, it really has been educational. I know education is very near and dear to you. You're, you're the vice president of the American EMU association, is that correct? And in chair of the education committee. So why is it that, you know, why do you love sharing the story?
- [26:28]
Kamara Lonergan
Well, you know, I, I founded the education committee because I felt that, you know, the people that, that know about everything, like know all about cows and know all about chickens, they, they take it for granted. You know, they keep all that information inside of them and they don't realize how hard it is for people to, to learn about these things on their own. So I felt we needed an education committee within the EMU association so that we could get that information out to people. Because with the education, of course more people will want to farm. There's so much mystery around emu and you know, it's not that hard to do. It's really not a hard, a hard thing to raise emu for farming. And I feel the more education we get out, the more our farmers will be looking to learn about value added products, which is another thing I teach them about. And grant funding, because grant funding is very important if you want to take advantage of that and emu certainly help you to qualify. In fact, I did get emu into the New York Grown and certified program for feathers. It took me two years. But this is great for our farmers because now they can apply for grants and funding, you know, programs through, through New York Grown. But education to me is, is just paramount to keeping farming alive. And you don't know, you could talk to one person or have one bit of information out there and you might stimulate them to start farming. And with farms shrinking in our, our country, keeping the public educated is so important to keep farming alive. And that's why it's so important to me, because farming's all I care about except my son, my emus. But farming is my life, no matter how big the farm or how small.
- [28:38]
Steve Ammerman
Yeah, and, and I mean, just in where you are in, in Ulster county, in the Hudson Valley, you know, it's, there's a lot of pressure on farms these days, a lot of development Pressure. And, and so there, there, there are many challenges to farming outside of just raising the livestock and raising the birds.
- [28:53]
Kamara Lonergan
It was very hard for me because it was important for me to own the farm myself. And there was no farm here. This was woods and clay and lots of bluestone. So when I moved here, I ran the projects, I hired people, but I knew what I wanted. We put in the barn, I had all the excavating done. Of course, I own the farm as a female run farm and I'm an older lady and the gefelas don't like that. I didn't have an easy time of it. And when I put up the farm stand, it's an old model T garage, but we. The design, the artist that I worked with, he designed it. So we used natural elements, cedar and such, and it would look like part of the landscape. But the neighbors hated it and they really, they complained to any agency they could think of. I did get my farm placed into a farm district, which has been a tremendous help. But I still have people complaining. They, they think the emu silly things. Oh, the emu are going to put someone's eye out. You know, that's like an old wives tale about birds doing that. The farm stand they don't like, they haven't complained about manure or anything. The town has been very supportive of the farm because there's not many left here.
- [30:28]
Steve Ammerman
Yeah, but you know, you provide so much beyond the products that you sell and the options you have to consumers. It's, it's the open land and it's, it's the scenic landscape. It's, it's the. What you contribute to your economy, the local economy down there. There's so much that, that farms contribute that people sometimes take for granted. So as you said, education is key. And the more people that, that learn about it, the more people will appreciate it. That's important.
- [30:56]
Kamara Lonergan
Yes, it's true. And Farm Bureau has helped me a tremendous amount. And I tell you, number one with Farm Bureau, if you have an organization where there's a collective voice of smaller people like me, now a smaller person like me has more power because when I get my back up against the wall, which I did the past couple years, one was with a piece of legislation that someone was trying to put through that you couldn't own emu or ostrich, period in New York state, and the DEC had a hand in part of it with this legislator, and I assume they were thinking of taking our birds away because they were saying they were not native to New York State. So Kyle, I guess, on our staff for public policy.
- [31:53]
Steve Ammerman
Sam.
- [31:54]
Kamara Lonergan
Yeah. Yes. He's become the emu lawyer. I guess they please him. But he helped me a lot with lobbying. Not really lobbying, but information gathering. And I did the rest of educating the senator, but he did, too. And Farm Bureau is like a safety net for me because I'm alone. There's no farmers here around me. And if something goes wrong or I can't solve a problem, I'm calling Farm Bureau because that's what my family did, or the Farm Agricultural Society or whatever, or the cattle farmer, the dairy guys up in Connecticut. When I grew up, we called Farm Bureau. Everybody talked about, you couldn't go to the bar at night after work without somebody mentioning the Farm Bureau. So that I just knew from my growing up in an ag community that if I got in trouble here, call Farm Bureau. And I did. And I have to say, I called a lot. I had a New York State audit. It was horrible. Audit on my farm. And Farm Bureau didn't. They couldn't make the audit go away, but they helped me to understand it, and that was really important. And I don't care about the discounts or anything. I just care that that safety net is there for me to get some questions answered. And I like it so much that I asked them if I could be on the board. I think it's awesome. I don't ever want to see Farm Bureau go away.
- [33:31]
Steve Ammerman
Are you on the Ulster County Board?
- [33:33]
Kamara Lonergan
Yeah. This is my first.
- [33:35]
Steve Ammerman
I didn't realize that. That's. That's exciting.
- [33:37]
Kamara Lonergan
Yeah. It's my first year, and everybody's really nice, and I hope I can be a voice for. For some of the minority, the female farmers, you know, like me. I hope I can help others and get more education out there.
- [33:52]
Steve Ammerman
Well, and I think just being on our podcast today, you're doing your part, and I greatly appreciate that, and thank you for those kind words, and it's nice that you. You had a positive experience and we were able to help. That's. That's our goal for our members, is to help them. You know, last thing, if people are interested in learning more, where would you encourage them to go? Obviously, they could reach out to you. You have your. Your farm website. We should probably say, what is the name of. Of your farm and your website? That's important.
- [34:21]
Kamara Lonergan
It's thunderhorsehollow.com and you can find me on Facebook. Thunderhorse Hollow Farm. Just look for the emu. That's me. Yeah. Hard to miss. I will teach people about Emu farming. I can't because of the new farm law. I cannot use my emu to teach anybody anything. I would be able to come and help you at your farm. I can talk to you on the phone to get you started. If I cannot answer your question, I will get your questions answered because I know everybody that you know that knows what they're doing in the emu industry. Also, if a person wants to go to a website that has vast amounts of information, the American Emu association has generations of information. It's aea-emu.org.
- [35:20]
Steve Ammerman
Very good.
- [35:24]
Kamara Lonergan
Yes. People can find whatever they are looking for, but if you're a member, then they have an even bigger quality, you know, category of things that can reference.
- [35:34]
Steve Ammerman
Absolutely. Well, Kamara, we really appreciate you taking your time today to talk about what you do and share your passion, which is very exciting to see. And, you know, I wish you the best of luck with your farm as you continue to grow and do more. And hopefully we will see each other again soon.
- [35:54]
Kamara Lonergan
Thank you very much. I'm very excited that you gave me this opportunity and there's nothing I love more than to talk about emu. That's my favorite thing.
- [36:04]
Steve Ammerman
Well, very good. This was a great conversation. Thanks so much, Kamara.
- [36:07]
Kamara Lonergan
Thank you.
- [36:10]
Steve Ammerman
So if you'd like to learn more about Kamara, just go to her website@thunderhorse hollow.com and we look forward to telling more member stories in future editions of News Bites and exploring all that New York agriculture has to offer. Well, thanks for listening to today's podcast. It was edited by Seth Moser Katz. Until next time, make sure to thank a farmer for all that they do.