Andy Burnham Becomes Prime Minister

Summary

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BBC Newscast – Andy Burnham Becomes Prime Minister

Date: July 20, 2026
Hosts: Adam Fleming, Laura Kuenssberg, Faisal Islam, Chris Mason

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Episode Overview

This episode covers the dramatic and historic day Andy Burnham was welcomed as the new Prime Minister of the UK, taking over after Keir Starmer’s resignation. Broadcasting directly from Downing Street, the Newscast team gives an on-the-ground perspective, dissecting Burnham’s first moments, his pledges, style, the implications for the Labour Party, and what the immediate future holds for Britain under his leadership. The tone is vivid, personal, and candid throughout.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Atmosphere in Downing Street and Burnham’s First Moments

• [01:30] Adam describes Burnham's emotional arrival: the new PM hugs his mum, mingles warmly with friends, supporters, and children in party dress—much more relaxed than previous transitions.
  • "It felt a bit more like a family wedding than these things normally feel." – Faisal Islam [04:34]
• Burnham's entrance is described as unscripted, warm, inclusive, and distinctively personal compared to predecessors.

2. A New Style of Leadership

• [04:03-04:24] Laura notes the change in tone and style: "No script, no lectern... much more off the cuff... He did, many people will be relieved to know, still have a shirt and tie on to meet the King."
• The “no lectern” moment is highlighted as an intentional symbol of accessibility and informality.
• Burnham's informal, people-focused lines ("problem solving instead of point scoring, people instead of party") are said to be authentically his, not crafted by speechwriters. – Laura Kuenssberg [06:25]

3. Policy Signals and Early Pledges

• Burnham promises both a “new political and economic model for Britain” and concrete immediate help on the cost of living.
  • "Later this year I will bring forward a new plan for Britain, a ten year plan... But I can do something to give people some breathing space now, some help with the cost of living and I will set out some of those measures starting tomorrow, including how we pay for them." – Andy Burnham (played by Adam Fleming) [08:20]
• Immediate pledges include:
  • Ending rough sleeping.
  • Potential tax cuts by unfreezing thresholds.
  • Short-term cost-of-living relief—details to come imminently.
• Discussion of funding mechanisms—tax increases, spending cuts, or both: "If it’s to register on any sort of cost of living wicter scale... it’s going to cost a significant amount and therefore... the compensatory way that you fund it is going to be really controversial..." – Faisal Islam [09:50]

4. The Ten-Year Plan Concept

• Burnham’s long-term vision aims to create optimism and a sense of direction (“when Britain starts to believe again”).
• Speculation he might propose shifting fiscal rules to a 10-year horizon, not the traditional 5—possibly to allow more ambitious investment without breaking fiscal commitments. – Adam Fleming [11:00]
• Noted that actual benefits of policies like new housebuilding or devolution may take years to materialize.

5. Contrast with Keir Starmer and Recent Political Mood

• The Newscasters reflect on how Burnham’s “positivity and hope” is a stark break from what is described as Starmer’s “dire, dour press conferences and pain is to come.” – Faisal Islam [13:07]
• Politics seen as needing both policy and “feel-good”: "However, you can’t put a price on cheering people up. Yeah, politics is about policy, it’s about money... but... the ability to make people feel good is a basic skill for effective politicians..." – Laura Kuenssberg [13:55]
• Burnham’s personable style might win some public patience but faces massive expectations: “Downing Street staff are gonna have to start building in an extra hour on every single visit ... he’s gonna try and shake hands with every single person in the country.” – Laura Kuenssberg [15:10]

6. Labour Party Dynamics and Mandate Questions

• Burnham is seen as politically powerful, but surrounded by challenges: “He knows this is going to be very, very difficult from the get go...” – Laura Kuenssberg [11:01]
• Internal Labour politics: Unions played a big role in backing Burnham; potential horse-trading over early policy moves.
• Discussion of how much Burnham will stick to 2024 manifesto vs. pursue his own agenda, especially on constitutional reform, devolution, or issues like House of Lords and electoral reform. [16:59]

7. Regionalism and Devolution

• Burnham’s agenda on “Number 10 North”, devolution, and decentralizing power is central, but recognized as not a top public priority.
  • Potential challenges: ensuring policies don't only benefit the North; need to address concerns in other regions.
  • Laura: “I think what Andy Barnum actually is trying to get at is not north, south, I think it’s London and everyone else...” [19:41]

8. Immediate Moves: Ending Rough Sleeping

• Burnham’s first official instruction: prioritize ending rough sleeping, backed by £340 million extra redirected from unspent funds.
  • But as Laura points out, Burnham tried to do this in Manchester “with mixed results.” [28:40]
  • Many of his policies require central and local government coordination; execution will be the real test.

9. Personal Logistics and Symbolism

• Lighthearted banter about whether Burnham will actually move into Downing Street or split time with Manchester [30:39].
• Discussion of “Number 10 North”—will it truly be a second seat of power, or merely symbolic?
• Former officials warn: “If all that moves is a small part of the Communities and Housing Department and a kind of remote office for number 10, Whitehall will have pulled the wool over his eyes.” – Laura quoting a source [33:09]

10. Cabinet Formation & Immediate Challenges

• The team speculate on the rapid changes within the Cabinet, some Starmer appointees (Valence, Timson) quitting.
• Questions about whether key policies from recent administrations will pause or be drastically altered in the transition.
  • “Could hit the buffers simply because there’s this lag period where there wasn’t a decision.” – Chris Mason [35:24]

11. Other Early Policy Questions

• Special administrative regime for water companies is flagged as an early test of Burnham’s approach to essential utilities—somewhere between nationalization and strict government control. [36:34]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On change of atmosphere:
  “It felt a bit more like a family wedding than these things normally feel."
  — Faisal Islam [04:34]

• On political tone:
  "However, you can't put a price on cheering people up... The ability to make people feel good is a basic skill for effective politicians."
  — Laura Kuenssberg [13:55]

• On leadership style:
  “He looks cuddly to the public, but he’s a hammer.”
  — Laura Kuenssberg, quoting a Burnham ally [35:50]

• On the challenge ahead:
  “He knows this is going to be very, very difficult from the get go, but... whatever happens, it’s going to be a very different political atmosphere for the country because he’s such a different figure to Starmer, like for good or for ill.”
  — Laura Kuenssberg [11:01]

• On expectations and delivery:
  “Still waiting... for the Christmas list of ideas years. Most of which, like any Christmas list, will have people thinking, oh, you know, things that are appealing to plenty—I'd like a pony.”
  — Chris Mason and Laura Kuenssberg, on policy detail [30:05]

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Important Timestamps

• 01:30 – Burnham’s arrival and emotional moments outside No.10
• 04:03 – Discussion on change of style (no lectern, off-the-cuff speech)
• 08:20 – Burnham’s ten-year vision and pledge for cost-of-living help
• 13:55 – Politics as persuasion: cheer, hope and optimism contrasted with Starmer’s approach
• 19:41 – North vs. South or London vs. everyone else
• 27:11 – Rough sleeping pledge: details and challenges
• 30:39 – Will Burnham (and his dog) move into Downing Street?
• 33:09 – How far will devolution go—symbol or substance?
• 36:34 – Early test: handling water companies in crisis

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Conclusion & Takeaways

The episode depicts a political change as much in mood and approach as in substance. Andy Burnham is presented as an energetic, optimistic figure aiming for radical policy transformation and a reset of the national mood, but also facing immediate fiscal and structural constraints, political complexities within his own party, and skepticism about how much can actually change—and how fast. The hosts’ insightful, slightly irreverent tone underscores both the symbolism and reality of the moment, leaving listeners with a sense of anticipation and uncertainty as Burnham’s first real decisions loom.

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Transcript

[Adam Fleming]

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK Decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day, but what policy changes should investors be watching? Listen to Washington Wise, an original podcast for investors from Charles Schwab to hear the stories making news in Washington right now. Host Mike Townsend, Charles Schwab's Managing director for Legislative and Regulatory affairs, takes a non partisan look at the stories that matter most to investors, including policy initiatives for retirement savings, taxes and trade, inflation concerns, the Federal Reserve, and how regulatory developments can affect companies, sectors and even the entire market. Mike and his guests offer their perspective on how policy changes could affect what you do with your portfolio. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] washingtonwise or wherever you listen.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

This Monday.com ad was created by a team of people and AI agents. Reese, our content agent, wrote the copy based on our best practices, like mentioning Monday.com three times. That was the second. Johnny, our coordination agent, built the timeline and kept everyone aligned. Olivia, our human creative director, stayed in the loop because agents are great, but they don't always know when a joke lands. She had one tell listeners it only takes minutes to build an agent, so make sure minutes create your own AI agent. Today on Monday.com

[Adam Fleming]

let's build a new national sense of unity, of common purpose and positivity. Let us make this the moment when Britain starts to believe again. The moment we bring back hope. Thank you very much everybody. Hello, we're in Downing Street. Andy Burnham, the new Prime Minister of the uk, is just a couple of meters away from me, hugging. I think that's his mum. And all that clapping is from his friends, family, supporters and new staffers who've just welcomed him into Downing Street. He's just done his speech to the nation, not from behind a lectern, just from a couple of microphones. And he's made some huge pledges, things like a new political and and economic model for Britain. And you can feel a very different vibe here already. He's spending ages trying to have a little moment with every single person who's come here and who has helped him to get here, from the mayoralty of Greater Manchester to the prime ministership of the U.K. also, it just feels so different. For example, there's loads of children here and they're all dressed up in their finest outfits for this big moment to see their, maybe their relative take on this huge job. He's doing a few fist bumps now. He's really, really close to me and now he strides forwards, really looking like he's enjoying himself. One Last wave to everyone who's here, grabbing his wife by the hands, giving her a big old kiss, and walking in to stand on the famous doorstep to begin the premiership of Andy Burnham, which we will discuss on this episode from Downing street of. Newscast, newscast, newscast.

[Chris Mason]

From the BBC, humanity's next great voyage begins.

[Adam Fleming]

You know, I like my buses. I'll come onto them.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

I see that.

[Adam Fleming]

He was, I guess, the mayor of a town.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Ooh la lock.

[Faisal Islam]

Thinking about it like a panto helped.

[Adam Fleming]

Do we play music now or what do we do?

[Laura Kuenssberg]

And what will you do? Stare at a wall?

[Adam Fleming]

Hello, it's Adam. Not in the newscast studio, but in Downing Street.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

And it's Laura in Downing Street.

[Faisal Islam]

And it's Faisal in Downing street, too.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Why would we be here today?

[Adam Fleming]

Well, it's not Sunday, it's not Saturday, but it's good to be reunited anyway, always. So loads to discuss, actually, and I think maybe more to discuss than you would have in your typical new prime minister coming in, saying things in Downing Street. I think we got kind of more clues and more sort of change of direction from Andy Barnum today than maybe we've had in the past these moments. Maybe. Let's just save that for later. Do you know what? That's my theory below. I just saw your facial reaction to that theory, but never mind.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Well, I didn't know if we were going to start on some of the changes that were definitely there, which were changes in style. So no script, no lectern. He was sort of, you know, that I'm going to be a bit less formal was still a big formal speech, wasn't it? But much more off the cuff. No script, no lectern. But he did, many people will be relieved to know, still have a shirt and tie on to meet the King and then to talk to the country for the first time.

[Adam Fleming]

And had incredibly sharp cuffs, I noticed, in his shirt. Yeah, Faisal, you were watching it all happening as well.

[Faisal Islam]

I was perilously close to him. Okay.

[Adam Fleming]

I thought it felt a bit more like a family wedding than these things normally feel, because he spent ages shaking hands with all his friends and supporters, and there was little children around and their party dresses and stuff. It felt much more relaxed than these great state occasions of tonight.

[Faisal Islam]

You got that sense of a shift of power. And, of course, the head, the prime minister changes. But actually seeing some of the faces that I have seen from my hometown suddenly become the people running the country. There was Caroline Simpson, who runs. Who used to run the Greater Manchester Combat Authority. Now she's. We Think she's going to be in charge of number 10 in the north. Steve Rotherham, who's the co author of the Now Prime Minister and probably somebody who is going to, if you like, if you want to test the temperature of where Downing Street's going, this is. I think he was the guy on the Monday that he gets appointed, he went for a drink with Steve Rotherham. Right, so these are.

[Adam Fleming]

Steve Rotherham was here with his grandchild,

[Faisal Islam]

Harley Reid, the ex Everton player manager, I think it's fair to say that was a surprise. And various other figures from his Manchester years were here. But I thought what I took from the lecterness.

[Chris Mason]

Lectern moment.

[Faisal Islam]

Exactly as Laura said, the no lectern moment. The no lectern moment. Well, exactly the lack of lectern was that he was trying to communicate a couple of things which is like he's different, number one, but number two, that that slightly niche and nerdy policy agenda on devolution and decentralization, I think it's fair to say is not in the top 10 of the polls in terms of what people have cared about. I deeply memorized that stuff. He dreams of it probably Right. He's written books about it. Feels utterly comfortable in giving an off the cuff speech at a very important moment on that agenda.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

And I think that's interesting because what you. There are politicians who when you speak to them and when you hear them in front of microphones sound completely different to what they sound like when you talk to them in private. Then there are some politicians and Andy Burnham is one of them who actually talks like that when you chat to him in private. Now he might also talk even less formally than that, but he. These are his lines, right? They are not. Oh, a speechwriter has spent three weeks sweating and late nights coming up with the formal podium speech for Downing Street. Those are his lines, right? Point scoring, you know, no. Problem solving instead of point scoring, people instead of party. All of these things, those are his lines. I think what's also worth saying, what he's saying is we took wrong turns as a country four decades ago. That's all now going to change. We're going to take a different change of direction. We were talking about this at the weekend, but just that is in some ways just not consistent with what she's also said is I'm going to stick to what you as a country voted for in 2024. And I think we just don't know yet how genuinely different Andy Garnham is going to try to be in terms of switching policies Right. We know he's probably going to do things maxing out the ability to drill for oil and gas in the North Sea without ditching the labor manifesto commitment. We know he's interested in unfreezing the tax rate thresholds essentially to give people a tax cut. We know his first pledge today was I'm going to end rough sleeping. But there are just such an awfully, awfully long list of other things. We just don't know which way he's going to go. We know what he believes, but that's so different to being able to be sure what he'll decide.

[Adam Fleming]

Well, he made some huge pledges there this morning. So a new political model and a new economic model for the country. Aren't those the sort of things that happen over tens of years rather than a couple of years?

[Laura Kuenssberg]

But he also said I'll be back in a few months with a 10

[Adam Fleming]

year plan and we can listen to a little bit of that now. Later this year I will bring forward a new plan for Britain, a 10 year plan laying out a path from where we are now to where I believe we all want Britain to be. Wherever we're coming from, whatever party we support. But I can do something to give people some breathing space now, some help with the cost of living and I will set out some of those measures starting tomorrow, including how we pay for them.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

I thought, oh, so is he going to try and get through a few months without saying very much at all? Yeah, I thought that possibly Twitch, twitch.

[Faisal Islam]

Well, we did get that clear indication that tomorrow we will get some sort of cost of living help, maybe that I throw threshold announcement that is a. If it were to do something immediately

[Laura Kuenssberg]

and he said and how to pay for it?

[Adam Fleming]

Yeah, they might do that.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

They need a big moment, you know, they need a big moment to actually match the scale of the rhetoric.

[Adam Fleming]

So just a few things there. So one of the things he said he will do this week is tomorrow cost of living help, which he described as what giving people some breathing room. And he also said how we'll pay for it. So to me that sounds like a temporary thing to help with bills in some way with the potential temporary tax increases to pay for it or a spending cut in something else as soon

[Faisal Islam]

as tomorrow is if it helps more than 10 million people and costs more than a few hundred pounds, it's billions and billions. That's just the basic. So if it's to register on any sort of cost of living wicter scale that's going to affect anybody, it's going to cost a significant amount and therefore the compensatory way that you fund it is going to be really controversial in terms of, I don't know, the business community, corporation tax, capital gains tax, and

[Laura Kuenssberg]

it's already that they pay far too much tax and there are many millions of those people in this country too.

[Faisal Islam]

And it's, and it sounds like, you know, it sounds like a sort of mini ish budget. Now he did say in the interview with the Times this morning that yesterday he was in the Treasury, I mean,

[Adam Fleming]

talking about a few things.

[Faisal Islam]

So, so that, so that's where that goes. And, and I think he would hope, he would imagine that the plan, the ten year plan helps the economy to grow, but in terms of getting the numbers to add up to get to the Office of Budget Responsibility to get the numbers to add up, it's quite difficult to get them to get credit for that.

[Adam Fleming]

That promise of a 10 year plan for the country later this year gave me even more ammo for my theory that he's going to stick to the fiscal rules but make them over 10 years rather than five.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Well, that might be interesting.

[Adam Fleming]

You know, maybe that's just my confirmation bias looking for evidence to the match my theory.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Well, also if the unfreezes tax rate thresholds then we were talking about that a couple of weeks ago. So we're like he's definitely going to do that because we predicted it the weekend a fortnight ago. But the unions have been pushing for that. We know the unions. After all the jiggery pokery did pretty much all back Andy Barnum to go forward. This is politics. Whatever the milk and honey will flow from the taps of the land. He has been talking to unions, Labour politicians, Labor figures in the last couple of months about what he's going to do for them. Right, so this is the horse trading is real. He's a very, very powerful Prime Minister in this moment. But the rubber is going to hit the road. To mix all of my metaphors, it's going to be very difficult and one of his friends was saying to me a couple of weeks ago, he knows this is going to be very, very difficult from the get go, but I think it is going to be difficult. Difficult, but it is also, whatever happens, it's going to be very different political atmosphere for the country because he's such a different figure to Starmer, like for good or for ill. It's going to look and feel so different.

[Adam Fleming]

Can I just interrupt because a little bit of Westminster lore has just happened. Tobias known on social media by a very objectifying name as hot podium guy has just been kneeling down beside us to unplug some wires. And also his job is changing now because there was no podium.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Well, I dare you to ask him if he's gutted that the lectern's gone because his job's now changed. But that would be pretty interesting.

[Adam Fleming]

Let him get on with his trade. I don't think he sought the limelight.

[Faisal Islam]

It's just worth unpacking something that the Laura said there, which is, I think that the optimism and hope part of it, whether you buy into it or you don't buy into it, the presence of it is significant. It was quite remarkable and I think it was fully acknowledged by the now gone administration of Geir Starmer. Rachel weaves that to come in here and within two months have that sort of dire, dour press conference and tell everyone pain is to come. You know, even a, even a tough budget shouldn't actually be painful for the whole swathe of the population.

[Chris Mason]

Right.

[Faisal Islam]

You know, it should eventually lead to good things. So that was, that was an astonishing. They fully recognized that that was a mistake within three months. That is not the vibe obviously coming out of Andy Burnham. And that is important part of what he wants. We've talked in the past on newscast about like there's funny stuff going on with consumer confidence, there's very high levels of savings. People have been sort of nervous. They've been afflicted by 10 years of political and economic crisis. And two years ago the misjudgment made by the Samo Reeves administration was to think they wanted to hear more about pain and blame and all that sort of stuff. And so I think that that will be quite a substantial difference, although not a policy difference. He will try and sound positive. There's a future and that is where the ten year plan probably fits in a sense of direction.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

And that's politics. Right. So as you rightly say, you know, if he sticks to the rhetoric of some of the things, if some of his actions match the rhetoric, it might be really, really, really expensive. However, you can't put a price on cheering people up. Yeah, politics is about policy, it's about money, it's about tax and borrowing and being responsible and all of those things which are vitally important. And there is great spending skepticism in some pockets of the Labour Party that he'll be able to do it. Right. We should also say that however, the ability to make people feel good is a basic skill for effective politicians and to take people with you and Even if something's going to be hard, is to give them a compelling reason why they should do it. Right? Why is it nobody wants to get up at 5 in the morning to go to the gym, but you can be persuaded, I'm sure, Adam, to do it every now and again? Because you might think, oh, well, I'm going to get into my shorts next week, you know. And that persuasion point is something that Keir Summer really struggled with. His detractors would say it was partly because he didn't really care about it that much. He didn't see that as important and he ran that place as kind of, well, I'm going to make this decision. I'm the Prime Minister, I'm a serious, capable person, which he is.

[Adam Fleming]

And that would be enough.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

And that would be enough. Whereas the sort of feel good, the razzle dazzle of politics, which Andy Barnum loves, and he's good at it. I think Downing street staff are gonna have to start building in an extra hour on every single visit. They do shake hands because he's gonna try and shake hands with every single person in the country.

[Adam Fleming]

And that's what's interesting because. And I was really struck by when he arrived and he absolutely took his time working up the street and then gave his mom a huge big hug and he was like fist bumping the children. He was not in a rush to give all of us here, of the assembled media, the speech for us to then dissect. And he was in the sunshine and he was. He was doing like the pray hands emoji. And I wonder that. But will that Transmit through the TV pictures tonight in Chris's piece on the 6 o' clock news? Or will people just go, oh, he's trying to aid Tony Blair in 1997, where he walked down the street shaking people's hands and it turns out they weren't ordinary voters, they were Labour Party staffers. Does it work that quick?

[Laura Kuenssberg]

I think there's a window where people are going to be willing to look at the Labour Party again. Not everyone, but some people. That's what the polling suggests. And Andy Barnum, don't forget, the reason he's in there is, if you look at polling, he is in an era when the public basically detests politics as a. As an entity, as a sort of body, as in they do not like politicians. He is a politician who has had incredibly positive personality ratings and I'm afraid it might sound distasteful, that really matters. That's why he's there, is because his Party decided that he was potentially a winner for them in the UK because Keir Starmer looked like a loser. It's not because the Labour Party suddenly woke up one day and thought, oh, Andy Burnham's got the best prospectus for the country. He's going to be amazing at running everything. He would be wonderful because he looks like a winner.

[Faisal Islam]

I think for me one of the key judgments is this overlap between the extent to which he can pursue what he actually wants to do within the confines of the 2024 manifesto, when we know there's a whole sweep of things in the economy actually constitutionally as well, which he really does want to do around electoral reform, around House of Lords. I mean, you guys tell me it's in, it's in, it's in how much of that makes it into the 10 year plan that will work out, I think how quickly an election will happen and whether he needs his own mandate

[Laura Kuenssberg]

and how many other things he might ditch. So that's why the digital ID cards thing was interesting at the weekend is like that's something that wasn't in the manifesto. People weren't really that up for it, just get rid of it. Might there be other things this week that they go, you know what countries in a proper cap, let's just not focus on things that aren't important. Important. But then the devolution agenda, he really cares about that. As you said, that's not important to most people. Is he gonna do that? It's really contradictions.

[Adam Fleming]

Sorry. Punching the air. Yeah, that's how the good vibes in Downing street they are transmitting already. And that's the ID cards thing. Because it then emerged actually not very much money had been allocated to that program anyway. So can actually allocated to be spent in the short term.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yeah, but yes, but still.

[Adam Fleming]

So it's not like he saved loads of money today by accident.

[Faisal Islam]

What we're going to get is we're going to get this 10 year plan. It's going to be let's rebuild Britain and it'll be designed to say all the stuff that's gone wrong that you see in your communities, that you see in the transport infrastructure that you see. You know, we're going to get all that sorted. Now that costs money. Right. But that, that and by the way, you can make decisions about this closer to. So that's the rough contours of what he is I think going to try and deliver. And you will see, I think people like Jim o', Neill, former Treasury Minister, like this is he's been Trying to deliver this. You know, it's a story that's not quite cross party.

[Chris Mason]

Right.

[Faisal Islam]

It starts actually before George Osborne. George Osborne had a big part in it. Michael Eseldine, Lord Adonis, did a bit of this. You know, you kind of go all the way through this. And I think he does have a challenge in making sure everybody thinks it applies not just to the north of England.

[Adam Fleming]

Yes.

[Faisal Islam]

And it applies to Cornwall and the West Country. I know, I know in the polling that he was doing much better in the north, but in the Thames Estuary. Yeah, it's not going.

[Adam Fleming]

And also, Laura, you had that great moment on your show on Sunday where Tracy Brabin, mayor of West Yorkshire, said, Number 10, north is going to change things. Kate Garraway, presenter of Good Morning Britain, said, oh, our listeners and viewers are not that bothered by that. And then Tracy Graben said, typical Southerner, and there was a real moment of tension between them.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yeah, well, it's real, though, isn't it? But I think that. I think what Andy Barnum actually is trying to get at is not north, south, I think it's London and everyone else. Right. Or London, wealthy suburban central London. There's lots of pockets in poverty in the southeast of England. Absolutely. Some of the poorest bits of the country are in central central London, but I think that's kind of what they're trying to get at. But one thing, just listening to your talk there about the agenda, it's worth reminding everyone that's the agenda also that Keir Starmer had, that's the agenda that Boris Johnson had in terms of leveling up the extent to which how far Andy Barnum wants to go. But I think it might be the case that there's some quite technical things they can do behind the scenes without really changing very much. So someone was explaining to me a couple of weeks ago, one of the problems with the. Not just with the leveling up money, which was the Conservatives way of doing this, but with some of the devolution money that has come when Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves were here, was that Whitehall was setting so many rules on how it ought to be spent that it was taking a hell of a long time. And basically the money was sitting there in pots, but they weren't able to spend it. Now, if they could say, yes, forget about the rules, we should just expect. This is Her Majesty's press lobby briefing. Oh, here's our very own Christmas.

[Adam Fleming]

Behind us is all the political journalists that you read in the papers every day.

[Faisal Islam]

And.

[Adam Fleming]

Right. So, Chris, I think you're going to go and use that orange microphone next to Faisal. Yeah. Right. Just to interrupt, two things have happened. So, first of all, this morning there was an exclusion zone outside Downing street for people with megaphones. So you would not have a repeat of what happened to Rishi Sunak and Kiera Starmer, where a famous protester called Steve Bray played music first loudly at grand state occasions like prime ministers arriving or resigning.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yeah. And when we were trying to do the news back in the day, and

[Adam Fleming]

I think that order has now ended because there's somebody making loads of noise at Downing street. So you'll be able to hear them in the background of this episode of newscast. The second thing that's happened is all the nation's finest political journalists were in the Downing Street Garden getting a lobby briefing from the Prime Minister's team. One of them was Chris Mason and so joins us now. Did you have school in the back garden today?

[Chris Mason]

Well, yes, we were escorted out of the back gates of Downing street and around the corner and through a little gate into the garden. And we were allowed to keep all of our phones, which is a very rare thing because normally have to put

[Adam Fleming]

them in a little cupboard.

[Chris Mason]

Downing Street. And it was the Prime Minister himself who did the. Just for a handful of minutes, not particularly long, love to chat something a little later in the. Later in the week. And yeah, so he called us into for a chat. It's that doing that weird thing of adjusting to calling somebody else Prime Minister.

[Faisal Islam]

Yes, it's quite.

[Chris Mason]

It's quite odd, which just happens in

[Adam Fleming]

the space of an hour change or whatever. Chris, not to go over all ground, but we did our sort of like theatrical review of the event of him arriving in Downing Street. Larry the Cat is now doing his version of it as well, of course. What was your take on just like the vibe? I mean, it was a beautiful sunny morning. He was looking like he was enjoying himself and he was surrounded by friends and family. Family and little children who dressed up for the day.

[Chris Mason]

Yeah, they're big moments, aren't they? And I think the thing is, because it's happened with the frequency that AIR has in recent years, we shouldn't forget how big a moment it is and how big an opportunity for a party between a general election to attempt a reset and then the human reality of a moment like this. So you saw the semicircle of Keir Starmer's supporters and friends and family gathered with a sense of pride, but ultimately a demeanor of disappointment and failure, frankly, because that's how it's turned out relative to how they would have imagined it just two years ago. And then seeing Andy Burnham's equivalent semicircle of supporters either side of the, of the doorway. There was Steve Rotherham there, the Mayor of the Liverpool city region with his newly arrived grandchild in arm, as revealed on Friday's newscast. Well, indeed, well indeed. There was Dale Vince with his T shirt about Chips being vegan, the co investor, if I, if I read his T shirt correctly, and Andy Burnham's mum in amongst the crowd. So yeah, that real sense. And there was a sense of that from the briefing I've just been in of the, the gravity of the human moment of somebody coming, becoming Prime Minister. And you imagine we were just thinking this as a gathered press pack in the garden just a few minutes ago. You imagine the conversation that the Prime Minister has had between the moment in the street at what, just before 1:00 o' clock and right now, what is it just gone 2 o'. Clock. The gravity of those conversations around national security.

[Adam Fleming]

Here's the nuclear codes, all of that.

[Chris Mason]

Exactly. And the responsibilities that suddenly land crash on the shoulders of an incoming Prime Minister with all of the decisions still to take as the afternoon rolls on.

[Adam Fleming]

Important question. Had Andy Burnham taken his time tie off in between going in through the front door and speaking to you?

[Chris Mason]

He was as formally dressed, addressing the scruffy press pack in the garden without any cameras. He was as formally dressed. So not only the suits, even the button D. I mean I thought this is, this is a whole new level of form.

[Adam Fleming]

Had time to, to do the Manchester look. Funny hearing you saying about the, the Starmer supporters leaving and the Burnham supporters arriving because, because I was queuing to get in because I turned up much later than you guys did because I'm a part timer now and it was a huge queue of journalists to get in and the police were having to get the Starmer supporters in from the back of the queue and say to the Burnham supporters, sorry, you just gotta wait, your slot isn't till 12.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

So I got stuck in the queue with some of your Starmer's friends coming in and they were actually one of them and I'm not gonna betray it, but one of them was really, really furious about what's happened and for all that, as you said, it's a bit sort of family wedding vibes. Labour had a great time on Friday, didn't they, at that event? Chris had a great time here in the street today. There are wounds. There are wounds. Now it is very true that they have managed to avoid what happened with all the Tory transitions, which is basically, people are cleaning up the metaphorical blood off the floor. They were bitter. And it kind of got worse, worse every time, didn't it? The level of kind of poison that was left behind. And they were very, very factional each time. Antebranum and his team, they've managed, broadly speaking, to avoid that. There is a lot of goodwill, so there are pockets of unhappiness. But, my God, it might disappear so quickly. And I'm not predicting that. And it's in remark and unremarkable achievement to have got this far without bigger bus stops.

[Faisal Islam]

It could happen tomorrow.

[Chris Mason]

Right.

[Faisal Islam]

It could have tomorrow if we talked about this sort of giveaway with some sort of takeaway.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yeah.

[Faisal Islam]

You know, this was the point at which things started to go south for Rachel Reeves and. And Keir Starmer when they decided to cut the winter fuel allowance. And you're like, you know that one misjudgment right now, tonight by the new Chancellor.

[Chris Mason]

Yeah.

[Faisal Islam]

Could define.

[Adam Fleming]

Also, just thinking back to the queue, I was just chatting to people there,

[Faisal Islam]

like, oh, where have you come from?

[Adam Fleming]

How do you know Andy? And I met the guy that runs the Working Man's Club, which was his HQ. For a pint. It's £3.50.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Great.

[Adam Fleming]

I was like, wait to try and have one around here.

[Chris Mason]

Thanks, man. Yeah.

[Adam Fleming]

Chris, just in terms of actual details, because we've talked a lot about. Andy Burnham's got this big vision and there's not a lot of detail about how it's going to be worked out. We do have one quite worked out. Policy. Saying policy, but it's a pledge to eliminate rough stage. So he said at the end of his speech at the Knott podium, the first instruction I'm going to give when I go in through this famous door is to tell all my officials my priority today is ending rough sleeping across the uk. And we've learned a bit more detail about how that's going to work.

[Chris Mason]

Yeah. And not only that as a kind of headline promise delivered in that opening address, but he went out at the crack of dawn this morning with a camera in tow and journalists acting on behalf of all of us. It was our colleague Beth Rigby from Sky News, talking to people who are rough sleepers going to a homeless shelter. Clearly, this is something he's passionate about, a policy that he has attempted to pursue as mayor of Greater Manchester. But I think it also sits in that wider thing of how he wants to be perceived as Prime Minister, that this is as he would hope to be seen, a sort of pavement politician who now happens to be Prime Minister run rather than the other way around.

[Adam Fleming]

And when you read the small print, because it's now the first government press release of the Burnham era, is this rough spin pledge.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yeah.

[Adam Fleming]

And basically you've been off working. I can just look at my phone all afternoon. It's basically 340 million of extra money from the Communities Department that hadn't been spent that is now being added to the several billions already committed in the Government's existing homelessness strategy.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

So that's about getting money out the door. But here's another thing. So this was one of Acten Burner's big promises in Greater Manchester and he didn't achieve it. So what his team would say is, we made a lot of progress on rough sleeping in Manchester and then we were undermined, as they would see it, by the government's. The Conservative government's decision to start moving asylum seekers out of hotels or whatever. You know, they basically say central government made it impossible.

[Adam Fleming]

There wasn't the accommodations, but rough sleepers into.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

So Andy Burnham has tried this in Greater Manchester with mixed results. So, yes, we're going to hear a lot and he's going to say, I really believe in this thing. I really want to do it, as ever. And in the coming months, we will also be looking at the small print.

[Faisal Islam]

I asked him about housing when I interviewed him four or five months ago. What was quite interesting about that was that one of the answers was we need more funding from central government and we need more powers. Well, he's in charge of that now.

[Adam Fleming]

He's got the powers.

[Faisal Islam]

Yeah, well, definitely. But then the other thing he said was, we need to build more. Well, the Manchester is now building more council houses. It's not a huge amount, to be honest. And now that's one of the agendas that he has pushed, which is a record amount of council house building. How long is that going to take to have any actual impact on the policy agenda? A lot of his policy agendas are long term, so you have this sort of time inconsistency with the sorts of solutions that he tends to talk about, write about, favor and like the problem, the immediacy of the issue. And how does he bridge that? How does he bridge that?

[Adam Fleming]

Can you tell us any more that you might have gleaned about the Burnham era?

[Chris Mason]

Just picking up on that last point, we still await, don't we? At the moment, we're still at the sort of Christmas list of ideas years Most of which, like any Christmas list, will have people thinking, oh, you know, things that are appealing to plenty.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

I'd like a pony.

[Chris Mason]

Well, yeah, yeah, yes, exactly. It's a bit like that, though.

[Adam Fleming]

Still waiting

[Chris Mason]

and all of the implications. Where's it going to be housed and are you going to muck it out? And at what cost? And you magnify that a lot.

[Adam Fleming]

Just because we're not getting a Downy street pony. That's a metaphor.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Still don't know about Axel the dog. That's my big question.

[Chris Mason]

No, this remains an unanswered question. The geography of Axel.

[Adam Fleming]

I saw Keir Starmer's cat, his personal cat, not the Downing street prince, in his little cat box being put in a people carrier around the side of Downing Street. When I. That's the first thing I saw this morning.

[Faisal Islam]

This is a pretty fundamental question. Has he actually moved in?

[Adam Fleming]

Is he going to move in?

[Faisal Islam]

Do we know that he's going to actually move in?

[Chris Mason]

So that was on our list of questions. I can tell you that we were going to ask him in the garden and then they out of time.

[Faisal Islam]

So.

[Chris Mason]

So we have.

[Faisal Islam]

Have we seen any moving vans?

[Chris Mason]

We're talking about the man rather than the dog.

[Faisal Islam]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

I think Andy Barnum's going to use Downing street, like traveling and the family are going to stay in Manchester, but I might be wrong, but also because his kids are grown up. So when we've had this previously, it's been different because they've had school age children, but someone who is. Is close to his family in the North England. And I said, oh, is our wife gonna. Is his wife gonna come and live in London? And they said, no chance. But also she apparently sometimes comes to London for work.

[Adam Fleming]

So, you know, and also remember in like the, the distant past of like the Theresa May era, she'd go back to her house in her constituency on a Thursday night and then we don't film her at church on Sunday. So it's actually. We've had a world where Prime Ministers have been not in this postcode for a couple of days a week.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yeah, some of them used to go to chequers as much as they possibly could. So maybe he won't. Maybe he'll only use chequers for state occasions and he'll go to Manchester every weekend.

[Chris Mason]

Rishi Sunak was Prime Minister. He would often work out of the Treasury's offices in Darlington, which are just down the road from his constituency. So to what extent does andy Burnham's number 10 north firstly become a base that he spends more time at than predecessors have used, if you like, offices that you might say were vaguely in parallel, but then also perhaps more important than that, or as importantly as that he is how much clout is put behind this rewiring of number 10 and number 10 north. Now, to a degree that will depend on how long Andy Burnham. How much time Andy Burnham spends at number 10 north, because that will send an indicator to the whole system whether it's somewhere that's attractive for civil servants to want to work in, depending on the time that the Prime Minister allocates to being there and the face time that they get with him. But that alongside any other rewind firing that goes on between number 10, number 10 north and the Treasury.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yeah.

[Chris Mason]

And all of that will flow once we get the name. This is going to be fascinating.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

There's a very canny former official said to me, with this whole agenda of moving things out of Westminster, moving power, as he stood in the street a couple of hours ago and said, I will take power from this place to around the country, wherever you are, a very cunning foreigner official said, if all that moves is a small part of the Communities and Housing Department and a kind of remote office for number 10, Whitehall will have pulled the wool over his eyes.

[Adam Fleming]

Right, so we've done it, but not really done it.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Right, so. And there is an argument and this, this smart wise owl was saying to me, look, there's a great argument in their view for moving transport, for moving bits of health, move the departments that are just that are English departments. And you could have a model where essentially the UK department, so Defense, Treasury, Foreign Office, they could be all staying here in Whitehall. And Andy Burnham could theoretically say, I really want those other departments to be out of town. But I mean, do you really, when you're in a hurry, do you really want to embark on an absolutely giant.

[Adam Fleming]

Also because redeploying people to. For their job to cost money and time, you've got to consult them and things like that. It's funny hearing you saying you talking to a former official. I was cycling here this morning and I said, well, yeah, about to be loads of them. And I stopped at the traffic lights and started chatting to a guy who is a civil servant. And so I used it as a bit of journalistic opportunity and basically they were saying this today boils down to three things for them. And I'm paraphrasing here. Does their current Secretary of State stay in the job or is it a completely new person? What big reforms that they're already doing do they carry on with? And thirdly, what bits of their day jobs and their policy era can they devolve to the right, the right level?

[Chris Mason]

How long were the lights on red?

[Adam Fleming]

I mean, it was quite a big junction, so. And also a couple of those very useful cycle rides.

[Chris Mason]

A couple of those points are really key. I was chatting to a minister. There was still a minister at the time. Time. Let's see if they still are within

[Adam Fleming]

24 hours because the changes are happening now.

[Chris Mason]

Yeah, just the other day, in fact. No, it was a couple of weeks ago, actually. And they were saying when it was obvious what was going to happen, they were desperate to get that tacit green light from Team Burnham about something that wouldn't be massively headline generating. But they wanted to plow on and they were fearful. Unless they got that green light, there'd be a big pause button pressed in June that would remain enforced until September or October, because it won't be in the first couple of dozen things that are crossing his desk. And the consequence, Sophia, this minister, is that some of those promises that they're attempting to deliver across the park right now, right now, could hit the buffers simply because there's this lag period where

[Faisal Islam]

there wasn't a decision.

[Adam Fleming]

It'll be so interesting that this. Because presumably this 10 year plan has to be formulated. Andy Burnham's not coming with a fully worked out in his head into Dynasty, but wouldn't there be a bit of a bun fight with the different. Whoever ends up being in the Cabinet, trying to get their things that they care about always?

[Chris Mason]

Yes.

[Adam Fleming]

Yeah. And so already like the kinder, gentle, more collegiate politics where he sets the direction and everyone, rose and bank might get tested quite, quite severely, quickly.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

But it's interesting. A lot of people who admire Barnum say that there's a sort of misunderstanding of people and as one of them says, he looks cuddly to the public, but he's a hammer. Right. And actually people who extol his virtues will say, actually he can be incredibly persuasive, but also not take no for an answer behind the scenes, whether that translates into that building and the scale and gravity of the decisions that you've got to make in a completely different environment. We're just all going to live through finding out.

[Adam Fleming]

And Andy Branham said nothing about the rest of the world. Everything was about here at home.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Although he has spoken about President Zelensky this morning and I think that's going to be his first phone call. So, yeah, he doesn't speak about it in the Faisal.

[Adam Fleming]

Just before we go, we've got to wrap up. We're getting kicked out. Tell me what the special administrative regime for water companies is and whether that's going to be very important this week.

[Faisal Islam]

Well, it's formally not nationalization, but it's a form legislated control for the government in the event that a important utility such as his Water comes under financial trouble. And it looks fairly close to being enacted. But in terms of temporal water, it looks like it'll be enacted with some enthusiasm by the current administration. They've been sort of circling around a decision and so it may be an early test case for this idea that you can. This sort of slightly.

[Chris Mason]

Slightly.

[Faisal Islam]

This intriguing idea. Not of sort of, if you like Corbyn McDonald style nationalization. Yeah, A broadband, remember that. But actually sort of greater degree of control over the essentials. Well, in that case. So that they can invest. But can you invest at the same time as keeping bills down? Yeah, these are the trade offs that are now very real inside that building.

[Adam Fleming]

We might even get some this weekend

[Faisal Islam]

and we'll get some answers too.

[Adam Fleming]

And Chris, sorry to interrupt your texting, which I know will be important. I know that's not you just ordering your lunch because you've not eaten a single thing yet today.

[Chris Mason]

It's just one of those days where

[Faisal Islam]

you're donating us with some chocolates.

[Adam Fleming]

I can. Yeah, I can hear sweetie rappers being. Oh, yeah, come on. Not before the

[Laura Kuenssberg]

snooze. Cast is not.

[Adam Fleming]

These are branded sweets. Other sweets are available.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Come on.

[Adam Fleming]

And actually, while there.

[Chris Mason]

Thank you very much. This is the first thing I've eaten.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Don't ever say anything.

[Adam Fleming]

Should we just do a little ASMR video? There's the snacks. You always eat so badly on days like this. Chris, what I was going to say is I think you and I are going to reunite. I'm going to now fill until you finish that mini Malteser. Or maybe it was. I hope it was one that's very quickly chewed the most dissolvable sweet. We're going to reunite tonight after tea time about 7pm because we think by then all the great offices of state will have been filled, which means we can reveal the winners of our great office sweepstake. People have been entering in their droves of the weekend to keep the kind of football spirit alive. But already a few people have quit as ministers. So Patrick Valens, who was the science minister, he's quit. And James Timson, who was hired by Keir Starmer, with great fanfare, to reform our prisons. He's decided not to stay.

[Chris Mason]

Yeah. Two people who reported in by Keir Starmer with deep specialism in their area.

[Adam Fleming]

You made that, sweetie.

[Chris Mason]

Very quickly. Too quickly, to be honest.

[Faisal Islam]

Sugar rush.

[Chris Mason]

Yeah. Two people who were brought in from outside of, if you like, conventional party politics in both prisons and science, respectively, who, it would, it would seem, clearly had a sort of direct loyalty to Keir Starmer's government and didn't want to carry on in the. In the. In the next one. I was quite surprised we didn't have a few more of those moments, actually, in the last. In the last 24 hours. There are one or two people I hear wandering around Parliament rather casually dressed who were previously occupiers of pretty significant

[Adam Fleming]

Ed Miliband speak to his department, laying out all the achievements of the last two years, which people are interpreting as

[Chris Mason]

a I'm not going to be here

[Adam Fleming]

at the end of the day thing.

[Chris Mason]

Yes.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

We'll see.

[Adam Fleming]

Yes. Did you enjoy your sweet tea?

[Laura Kuenssberg]

I haven't eaten.

[Adam Fleming]

Oh, you haven't eaten it yet? I'm not going to eat in front of a camera. Such a reverse.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

What do you think this is talking about? Ed Miliband is saying you're not going to eat on camera. No.

[Adam Fleming]

Right, okay. You're clearly starving and wanting me that sweet, so I'm gonna. Who am I to deprive you? So, Chris, thank you very much.

[Chris Mason]

See you later.

[Adam Fleming]

Faisal, good to see you here in Downing Street. And Laura, great to see you on a weekday.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

It's always a joy.

[Adam Fleming]

Reunited.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Thank you, Newscasters.

[Adam Fleming]

And as promised, we will be back with an extra helping of Newscast. That's me getting hungry now as well, where we will have an update on who the big offices of State are going to be filled by, but from Downing Street. That's it for Newscast for now. Bye bye. Newscast.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Newscast from the BBC, you've come to

[Adam Fleming]

the end of Newscast. Some people, and you know who I mean, might say you ooze stamina.

[Faisal Islam]

Can I encourage you to subscribe on BBC Sounds?

[Adam Fleming]

And you can get in touch with us anytime. Email [e-mail], you can WhatsApp us on 0301-239-480.