Andy Burnham's (Un)Funded Tax Cut

Summary

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Newscast – Andy Burnham's (Un)Funded Tax Cut

Date: July 21, 2026
Host(s): Adam Fleming, Faisal Islam, Alex Forsyth
Main Theme:
The episode discusses Andy Burnham’s first key economic policy as Prime Minister – cutting VAT on household electricity bills – and the controversy over how this “fully funded” tax cut will be paid for. The team dissects the funding debate, the symbolism of early government decisions, broader policy priorities, the new cabinet, and how Burnham plans to manage government from Westminster and “Number 10 North.”

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1. Overview: Burnham’s First Big Move

• Andy Burnham’s government wasted no time, announcing a cost of living policy on day one: a cut of VAT on domestic electricity bills from 5% to 0%, taking effect in October.
• The stated intention: immediate support for households as energy prices wobble, and to set the tone of a "cost of living government."
• Funding for the measure is debated, with questions over whether savings from a scrapped digital ID program truly cover the cost.
• The episode unpacks the political, fiscal, and symbolic dimensions of Burnham’s opening salvo and how this aligns with (or departs from) Starmer and Reeves’ stewardship.

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2. Key Discussion Points and Insights

A. The VAT Cut: Substance and Showmanship

[02:51–05:09]

• Details: VAT on domestic electricity bills cut from 5% to 0%, taking effect October. Estimated typical household saving: £45.

• Scale: Policy costs approx. £850 million for the rest of the financial year.

• Targeting: Limited to electricity (not gas); rationale is that almost every household uses electricity, with the poorest more likely to rely on it for heating. Critics note wealthier households may benefit more due to higher usage.

  "The impact on a typical bill is about ... a cut of £45... It's just enough for us to be able to say, now we expect it to be pretty flat, basically, but just come down a little."
  — Faisal Islam (03:00)

B. The Funding Fiasco

[05:09–08:00]

• Government Claim: The £850m cost will be covered by scrapping the previous government’s digital ID initiative, freeing up an alleged £1.88bn.

• Challenge: The OBR had flagged that this digital ID money had not actually been budgeted yet—raising doubts whether there are real savings to transfer.

• Twist: Darren Jones, Starmer’s former Chief Secretary, undercuts the official narrative with a tweet hinting the digital ID program was "unfunded," suggesting new money will have to be found.

  "A bit of a zinger of a tweet from Darren Jones very early this morning."
  — Alex Forsyth (06:34)

  "It's not what you want: scrapping with your former Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister on your first full day."
  — Faisal Islam (09:34)

C. The Political and Market Signals

[08:01–10:01]

• Significance: The move is modest, not a major fiscal giveaway. It signals a willingness to cancel past projects but also the need for future tough budgetary decisions.

• Messaging: Burnham presented this as proof his government is focused on living standards but, as Faisal points out, it’s largely a symbolic gesture to show intent.

  "We need to be a cost of living government ... And we've made a start today. We made the announcement about removing VAT from household electricity bills. It's not everything, but it shows our determination."
  — Andy Burnham addressing Cabinet (10:01)

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D. Reading the Cabinet Room: Alliances and Mood

[10:43–12:38]

• Seating Arrangements: Careful choreography; key figures like Shabana Mahmood, Ed Miliband, and John Healey are together, signaling unity among those vying for economic portfolios.

• Tone: Buoyant mood, focus on cost of living and need for reprioritization—Burnham calls for departments to brace for tough choices ahead.

  "If you read between the lines... he was saying, ‘I'm going to need you all to make some tough choices in your departments...’"
  — Alex Forsyth (11:41)

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E. What’s Actually New? Starmer Vs. Burnham Agendas

[12:38–13:58]

• Constraints: Fiscal rules, borrowing limits, and tax pledges endure; little new room for maneuver.

• Differences: Burnham signaling willingness to address big issues like social care (“free at the point of use”), but money will be a major test.

  "You have this verbal list of priorities, which show...political bravery: to talk about social care, reforms, and the NHS..."
  — Faisal Islam (13:08)

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F. Policy Flexibility & Tax Promises

[16:08–18:21]

• Flexibility: Burnham hints he’ll use flexibilities around fiscal rules (like netting off certain assets) rather than raid Reeves’ "headroom."

• Tax: He’s dropping broad hints about possibly shifting tax burdens—such as lowering business rates for high street businesses and increasing them for warehouses, or considering a wealth tax.

  "What he has signaled is...looking for flexibility within the manifesto pledges and the fiscal rules. He’s already signaled some stuff on taxation..."
  — Alex Forsyth (18:21)

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G. The John Healey Appointment

[20:55–25:27]

• Surprise Factor: Healey’s late-stage switch from Defense to Chancellor surprised many, but his experience and lack of factional baggage provide stability.

• Key Challenge: Whether he can push through difficult welfare and spending reforms while keeping Labour backbenchers onside.

  "His appointment will not alienate any particular wing of the Labour Party...you don't have that in the same way with the appointment of John Healey."
  — Alex Forsyth (25:01)

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H. The Machinery of Government: “Number 10 North” and OPIMCA

[25:27–28:32]

• Structural Reforms: Burnham is establishing a “Number 10 North” in Manchester, putting regional economic growth and devolution at the strategic center—taking some power away from the Treasury.

• OPIMCA (Office of the Prime Minister and Cabinet): Designed to centralize the delivery of PM priorities and overcome traditional Whitehall resistance.

  "[Number 10 North] is now going to be tasked with the strategy behind driving regional economic growth... strategic responsibility for a real key plank of Andy Burnham's agenda."
  — Alex Forsyth (26:16)

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I. AI Policy and a New Direction

[28:32–30:48]

• AI Advisor: Burnham will appoint a senior AI advisor, with structural changes in oversight, and have an AI minister attend Cabinet.

• Approach Unclear: He’s seen as more skeptical toward AI, particularly in terms of disruptive impacts on jobs, compared to previous leadership.

  "No one really knew where that sat within the sort of Burnham worldview... Is there a perception that the previous administration was a bit too drinking the Kool Aid about AI?"
  — Faisal Islam (29:32)

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3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “A bit of a zinger of a tweet from Darren Jones very early this morning.” — Alex Forsyth (06:49)
• “The reality is, you get these sorts of midterm announcements… and they come up with a story or a narrative to hold the line until... it's fully costed properly for the OBR.” — Faisal Islam (08:01)
• "...this was quite a modest policy... but they had also cancelled a project that was a priority of the Starmer Reeves administration. So that's not going to happen now." — Faisal Islam (08:01)
• “We need to be a cost of living government and getting that cost of living down and looking all possible ways of doing that... we've made a start today.” — Andy Burnham (10:01)
• “You have all of these, this list that sounds like lots of spending. You have the same tram lines... what gives there?” — Faisal Islam (15:09)
• "He (John Healey) didn't...buy [the need to meet the 3% defense spending target], and I noted some, you know, creation of space for potentially. That's not actually happening." — Faisal Islam (22:50)
• "His appointment will not alienate any particular wing of the Labour Party... because he is famously not an MP who has, you know, kind of really belonged to any particular faction." — Alex Forsyth (25:01)
• "Number 10 North... is going to be tasked with the strategy behind driving regional economic growth... a really quite significant thing." — Alex Forsyth (26:16)

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4. Additional Insights and Fun Moments

[31:25]

• Proms Encore: The team shares a story about the Proms’ encore being an orchestral Wonderwall, cheekily dubbed “the first Prom of the Andy Burnham era.”

  “They came on and they played beautiful orchestral rendition of Wonderwall.” — Faisal Islam (31:25)

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5. Segment Timestamps (Highlights)

• 01:15 — Main episode begins, Adam sets up topic
• 02:51 — Details and timing of the VAT cut
• 05:09 — Debate about funding, introduction of digital ID controversy
• 06:49 — Darren Jones tweet drama
• 08:01 — Analysis of policy symbolism and market signals
• 10:01 — Andy Burnham’s address to Cabinet (quote)
• 12:38 — Starmer vs. Burnham—how much has changed?
• 16:08 — Fiscal rules, “flexibility,” and possible tax changes
• 20:55 — John Healey’s appointment as Chancellor, what it means
• 25:27 — Number 10 North, structural government changes
• 28:32 — AI policy, new advisory role, Burnham’s approach
• 31:25 — Proms anecdote, “the Wonderwall moment”

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6. Conclusion

Summary:
Andy Burnham’s opening policy move—cutting VAT on electricity—was designed for both substance and spectacle, providing modest relief for households while signaling a new style of government. The episode dives deep into the pitfalls of funding claims, evident cabinet unity, and new approaches to governance. But behind the hope-and-action rhetoric loom the same grinding constraints of public finance, with political bravery and symbolic gestures marking the beginning of Burnham’s era.

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For listeners who missed the episode, this summary captures the key points, tension, and emerging questions around Burnham’s agenda, cabinet, and leadership style.

Transcript

[Mike Townsend]

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[Monday.com Ad Team]

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[Adam Fleming]

hello. I was listening to the World at One with Sarah on Radio 4 at lunchtime and I heard them play the now infamous clip of me asking John Healy if it's true that he carries a sachet or a bottle of HP sauce with them everywhere he goes as part of their cover of what Do We Know about the New Chancellor? And it got me thinking. We've definitely got newscasters in the treasury because do you remember that time someone managed to smuggle a newscast mug into the official photos of the last minute budget preparations. So I just wonder if anyone who listens to newscast in the treasury has spotted a catering size tub of HP sauce being delivered yet. Although maybe there's sachets of it in the canteen already. And actually it won't be that different after all. Little metaphor there. Anyway, we will be discussing some of the decisions already being made in the treasury as part of Andy Burnham's new government in this episode of Newscast Newscast

[Alex Forsyth]

Newscast from the BBC, Humanity's next great voyage begins.

[Andy Burnham]

You know I like my bosses.

[Adam Fleming]

I'll come on to them.

[Faisal Islam]

I see that he was, I guess, the mayor of a town.

[Alex Forsyth]

Ooh la la.

[Faisal Islam]

Thinking about it like a panto helped.

[Alex Forsyth]

Do we play music now or what do we do? And what will you do?

[Adam Fleming]

Stare at a wall? Hello, it's Adam in the newscast studio.

[Faisal Islam]

And it's Faisal in the newscast studio.

[Alex Forsyth]

And it's Alex in the Westminster studio.

[Adam Fleming]

Oh, it's good to be back. Sat down, not standing for hours and hours and hours in a street. Although it was to witness something quite historic. So actually maybe I Shouldn't be whinging. But anyway, so on the last episode of Newscast, which me and Chris recorded on Monday night at about 11pm, we were teasing what the cost of living announcement was going to be on Andy Burnham's first full day as Prime Minister. And Faisal, he didn't hang about. They announced it first thing this morning.

[Faisal Islam]

Yeah, I was up at 5am waiting

[Adam Fleming]

for the drop, another winch at 6,

[Faisal Islam]

after four hours sleep. And yeah, we got, we got it at 6am and it was the cutting of VAT, the current 5% rate of VAT on elect domestic electricity bills, down to 0%, that dropped at 6:00am and this will kick in in October. So the critical timing there is ahead of the next setting of the offgem price cap. And that's interesting because although the impact on a typical bill is about, is a, is a cut of 45 pounds, right now it looks like it's going to stay the same or maybe go up by 5 to 10 to 15 pounds. So the net result of this is the headline, if everything stays the same, by the way, nothing's staying the same.

[Adam Fleming]

So the VAT cut is bigger than the likely increase in the price cap

[Faisal Islam]

from where we stand today. So from where we stand today, it's. It means we can say, well, aha. Actually, against expectations, we now expect there to be a cut to the typical bill in October. So I think that that's where it's been modulated. You know, relatively modest move, £850 million. But it, I think it's just enough for us to be able to say, well, now we expect it, you know, to be pretty flat, basically, but just come down a little.

[Adam Fleming]

And if you use gas, central heating or if you're a business, this doesn't apply. It doesn't apply to electricity and home.

[Faisal Islam]

Well, there's two reasons they say why that's not the case, because not everybody uses gas. This is a way to get it out to every single household. Every single household, Almost every single household uses electricity. But also in some ways, the poorest households are more likely to use electricity for heating than others. That's their argument. There are counterarguments against that, actually, because in many ways, the wealthier you are, the more electricity you use. For example, and in particular, you know, people that have, you know, a fancy Tesla on their front drive, they'd be using a lot of electricity and they no longer pay VAT on that electricity. Although, interestingly, if you charge from a street charger, you do pay V80.

[Adam Fleming]

Yeah, because that's a different service, which

[Faisal Islam]

is a separate point, but there we

[Adam Fleming]

go, for people in flats to be annoyed about. Alex. And the other thing that Andy Burnham said when he was in Downing street in front of us all on Monday lunchtime was that this announcement, when it came, would be fully funded, which it is, sort of.

[Alex Forsyth]

Yeah, quite. And I think that was obviously quite an important point for Andy Burnham to make because he has been at pains to stress the fact that he's not going to be loose with the public money, if you like. And so he did say that this would be fully funded. And then this morning, just to give you a bit of the chronology, when the government made this announcement, they said, right, this is how we're going to pay for it. It's going to cost about 850 million quid for the rest of this financial year. We reckon we're going to save about 1.88 billion from scrapping the plans to introduce a digital ID, which was a Keir Starmer initiative that the government, this new government, had already said it was going to get rid of. Therefore we're just going to transfer the money over. However, it then emerges that in the Office for Budget Responsibility documents, when they look ahead basically and give their kind of estimation of all the public spending plans, they identified at the time, that actually the digital ID plans, the money for that hadn't actually been identified in government departments yet. So that was point number one. And then point number two, Darren Jones, who until only Monday was Keir Starmer's right hand man as the Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister, he put out a tweet. And the tweet that he put out suggested that the digital ID plans were in fact unfunded and therefore the government would have to come up with some money for this new VAT cut policy. A bit of a zinger of a tweet from Darren, Darren Jones, very early this morning.

[Adam Fleming]

And what's hilarious about that is that Darren Jones's previous tweets was a picture of him enjoying a beer after he'd been fired or not invited to be part of the new government, saying, radio silence till September.

[Alex Forsyth]

Yeah, thank you and good night. See you in September. Picture of him sat in a pub with a pint of something that looked pretty refreshing, although I can't identify what it is. And actually his tweet before that, when he was confirming that he was leaving government, he wished Andy Burnham all the best and his team in government. And then this morning, very early, what he did was put out this tweet, which which was effectively a sideswipe at the government's first announcement and the way that it planned to fund it.

[Adam Fleming]

And also, Faisal, this was all happening as you were on the radio. Chris was on the radio. Jonathan Reynolds, the newly reappointed Business Secretary, was about to go on the Today program to sell this policy. So it was very. It was perfectly timed from Darren Jones's point of view, if he wanted to cause mischief.

[Faisal Islam]

Yeah, I mean, I was on the 5 Live Breakfast show and it was read out to me and I couldn't believe that, you know, this is obviously highly credible. Former Chief Secretary to the treasury, who used to do all the counting, also responsible for digital ID policy. Actually, though, hang on, was he saying that his digital ID policy wasn't funded? That's an interesting one.

[Adam Fleming]

Or the money hadn't been found for it yet. But his process of finding the money was probably happening.

[McDonald's Ad]

Yeah.

[Faisal Islam]

Now, I think if we take a step back, like what. What was this government trying to achieve here? I think the, the signal they're sending was actually this was quite a modest policy. I mentioned 45 pounds, we mentioned 850 million and one shouldn't sniff at that, but, you know, it's lower than a billion in terms of a big fiscal giveaway. It's not huge. You can, you can find these sorts of sums over the course of, of a year. But they, in big picture, broad brush terms, they had also cancelled a project that was a priority of the Starmer Reeves administration. So that's not going to happen. Now. How much of the savings they said that they were going to identify, that Alex just pointed to in November, they had actually found, I think is an open question. Treasury sources say we were. No, we would have done this, we would have found the savings in order to fund this, we're now not going to do ID and we're going to use it instead for this. And the reality is, is you get these sorts of midterm announcements and they, they come up with a story or a narrative to hold the line until basically all the numbers are up for grabs in a budget process when it's fully costed properly for the obl. That is the reality of the situation. But my takeaway is modest and they're willing to cancel projects and that is a signal, I think, of intent to the public. And we saw some footage, which I will talk about later at Cabinet, about a cost of living government, Andy Burnham said, but also a signal to the markets that, okay, we know that the extent of this stuff has got to

[Adam Fleming]

be this is not a modest trust style energy bailout for every home.

[Faisal Islam]

And we are willing to cancel significant priorities in order to fund it. I think. I think that that is. That is a. But no doubt. I mean, of all the people to pop up and it's a gift to the. To the Opposition. And it's not what you wouldn't want to be scrapping with your former Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister and the treasury on your first full day.

[Adam Fleming]

I wonder what he's going to have to drink tonight.

[Monday.com Ad Team]

Right.

[Adam Fleming]

Talking of the Cabinet, here's how Andy Burnham addressed his new colleagues from his new seat in Downing Street.

[Andy Burnham]

We need to be a cost of living government and getting that cost of living down and looking all possible ways of doing that. I talked yesterday outside in Downing street about bringing back hope. And that's got to be us, hasn't it? We've got to do that. We can do that. And we've made a start today. We made the announcement about removing VAT from household electricity bills. It's not everything, but it shows our determination to do something about people's living standards.

[Adam Fleming]

Yeah. Alex, what did we make of the. The choreography around the Cabinet table? I quite like the fact that Shabana Mahmood, Ed Miliband and John Healy were sat next to each other on the same side of the table. All three people who were mooted as Chancellors or ended up being Chancellor.

[Alex Forsyth]

Yeah. Similarly in the way that the choreography of them walking up Downing street on Monday seemed to be quite carefully planned as well, you know, with the kind of Shabbo Mahmoud and Ed Miller band rumored to be vying for the Chancellor job, walked up together with their arms around each other and it was a little bit echoes of that around the Cabinet table. Lucy Powell sat next to the Prime Minister, as we know, somebody that has been a key ally of Andy Burnham's for some time and now landed the job of Education Secretary, as long as. As well as being the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party, which is why she had the seat that she did. I mean, it kind of was, as you expect, lots of smiling faces. A big round of applause for Andy Burnham as he took his seat there. There was a lot of chat from him about the kind of team that he'd gathered. But I think in terms of the substance, beyond what you'd expect around this sort of fairly buoyant mood that emerged from the Cabinet, it was this focus on the cost of living and this talk that Andy Burnham was giving to them about the need for reprioritization and as Pfizer was saying, you know, this whole thing about VAT on domestic electricity bills, it's meant to be a symbol of what this government is all about, which is making decisions to move money from one thing to focus on the cost of living. That's the signal they want to get out today. And that's exactly the message that Andy Burnham had for the Cabinet at the top. And if you read between the lines of what he was saying there, he was effectively saying, I'm going to need you all to make some tough choices in your departments so that we can focus more and focus more money, to put it bluntly, on trying to make things a little bit better for people. And I think, you know, in the room today, that appeared to be fairly well received, as you would expect. I guess the crunchy bit will come to what those decisions are and what has to go to free up some money on the stuff that Andy Burnham wants to do.

[Adam Fleming]

But, Faisal, how different can this be from what Reeves and Starmer were doing? Because they were looking around for months and months and months for things you could do to make people feel better off, and they ended up with the big summer savings, things on cutting on the vat, on children's activities like theme parks and soft play. And we talked about soft play areas a lot on newscast in that period. Is there like. Is there much else in the cupboard?

[Faisal Islam]

Well, the main tram lines are the same, because Andy Burnham.

[Adam Fleming]

Little B network reference there.

[Faisal Islam]

Well, no, it's true. It's true. Emblazoned in yellow. The main tram lines of this government, which are the fiscal rule, the borrowing rules and the manifesto commitments not to raise major taxes, are the same. So that, you know, they haven't decided not to change that, or they've saying they've decided not to change that. And so you're right about. About that. And yet at the same time, we have this verbal list of priorities, which I. I think show. I don't know. I don't mean this in the yes minister way, but like sort of political bravery. To talk about social care. To talk about.

[Adam Fleming]

Oh, we should just say that when the PM was talking to the political editors, including Chris, in the Downing Street Garden yesterday, he was talking about reforms to social care that will make social care like the nhs, in that it's free at the point of use.

[Faisal Islam]

Yeah.

[Adam Fleming]

Which is an enormous.

[Faisal Islam]

That is 10 billion plus type situation, if taken seriously at face value. That's what you're talking about. You're talking. You know, there was some suggestion. I haven't heard this directly myself that one of the stories behind Edmillerband returning to the Foreign Office is that the official development aid target of 0.7% is restored in some way. You obviously have John Healey, former Defense Secretary who resigned over defense spending, not going to 3% now as Chancellor I, you know, there's, and there's three or four others like this where. And yet you watch that cabinet imagery and the Prime Minister, you know, very much talking about fiscal prudence and credibility and John Healey comes up first. And, and I on behalf of broadcasters spoke to John Healey at the treasury yesterday and it was all about kind of fiscal prudence. So how does it, how do you square that? And also we've got more cost of living announcements with we think in the next few days that are being previewed. You mentioned the buses potentially bringing back

[Adam Fleming]

the two pound bus cap everywhere.

[Faisal Islam]

That's where. Which is an interesting one in terms of devolution, decentralization. Literally he, he chose to do that as Manchester Mayor when it was stopped elsewhere. And now does he sort of impose it, impose it on everyone else? So you have all of these, this list that sounds like lots of spending. You have the same tram lines, you have stepping stones towards a 10 year plan that will come out in the autumn before or after a budget. What gives there? And can he avoid the similar challenge or the equivalent challenge faced by Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves where you have this constant speculation of what taxes are going to go up? So that, that is the challenge right now. I guess it helps if the borrowing rates in the markets are somewhat under control. And they did pop up a little bit yesterday when in that briefing with political editors, the Prime Minister said he was looking to use all flexibility in the, in the rules.

[Andy Burnham]

Yeah.

[Adam Fleming]

And what flexibilities do we think he might be talking about?

[Faisal Islam]

So this is the thing that I think that was interpreted due to the headlines in the markets as being, oh, that means he's going to squeeze the room for. Maneuver the headroom. I don't think he meant that at all. It's a very specific thing that I, I think it's Jim o', Neill, the economist that's been advising the now Prime Minister has suggested before. It all goes back to Rachel Reeves. Change in the, in the target for, for debt.

[Adam Fleming]

Yeah. She changed the definition for what the debt was. So that thing, was it called P sniffle.

[Faisal Islam]

P sniffle net financial liabilities. That means there's some flexibility in something that's a financial transaction. Now that has been Used by basically

[Adam Fleming]

collecting together more things to. To describe as assets that you can offset against the government's debts, essentially. So it allows you to borrow more and still say you're sticking to the

[Faisal Islam]

fiscal rule as long as there's a transaction involved.

[Adam Fleming]

Yeah.

[Faisal Islam]

And they've pulled that off for some of the green measures in Ed Miliband's old department. You could apply the same logic to housing, to some forms of infrastructure, and you can expand how much spending could be done or how much building could be without necessarily breaking the fiscal rules. I think that is where it is. That. And that, I think is. Is less controversial, particularly if it's used for economically productive investments, than would be. Ah, look, Rachel Reeves left 24 billion of headroom. I'm going to use that. I don't. They didn't mean it like that. Yeah, but if you're explaining you're losing is in the old Reaganite phrase.

[Adam Fleming]

Yeah. Much as we love explaining on newscast, if you're doing it as a politician, it's be not a good sign. And Alex, I'm just thinking quite often, though, when there's a new prime minister comes in, I mean, classically, it's because they've just won an election and then you have a lot of wise political voices saying, do you know what? This would be your moment to say, the books are worse than I thought they were. I've been able to look into them. Maybe we are going to have to break some manifesto pledges on tax and put taxes up because the world has changed. The situation's worse than we thought when we were campaigning in poetry and now we're governing in prose, to use another old American political cliche. I suppose that option isn't really available to Andy Burnham here, is it? Or is it?

[Alex Forsyth]

Well, I mean, I guess the option is always available. I mean, there's nothing in law that says the government can't break its manifesto pledges, because we know that previous governments frequently have broken their manifesto pledges. But I think politically it's pretty difficult for Andy Burnham on a few fronts. Firstly, I think he looked at what Keir Starmer did when he took office, and Keir Starmer himself was acknowledged that it was a mistake to be quite so doom and gloomy around the way things were and including the public finances in his initial weeks and months in office. And I think Andy Burnham is quite deliberately trying to avoid that and inject a little bit more kind of optimism and hope. That's even the language that Andy Burnham is using. So I think that's kind of the first thing. So that would just make it difficult to make the argument about, oh, my goodness, everything is terrible when you're trying to say, I've got a plan, I've got solutions, and I'm hopeful for the future. The second thing about this is that Andy Burnham has given some indications on where he is on tax. Not many, because we know that, you know, he hasn't done like a billion interviews in between the point of being elected Makefield MP and taking office on Monday. But what he has signalled is that he's looking for. And this comes back to the point about the briefing he gave to journalists in the garden of Downing street on Monday. Flexibility within the manifesto, manifesto pledges and the fiscal rules. And I think that is much more likely to be where he's focusing his attention. So he's already signaled some stuff on taxation around, maybe shifting the kind of taxes that businesses pay so that high street businesses, including pubs, pay a bit less, and then kind of big retailers with warehouses out of town pay a bit more. That was a. An early indication of something he might consider. He has spoken again on Monday about this idea about the personal threshold for income tax. So basically the personal allowance, the point at which you start paying income tax. He said he wants to look at it, though he recognized it would be really difficult and expensive, let's be honest, to change that. And then there's other stuff, you know, like when he spoke to Gary Lineker and he didn't entirely rule out the possibility of some sort of wealth tax. Now, I think that that doesn't necessarily mean annual wealth tax in the way that some people advocate, but perhaps it's something about looking again at where the assets are taxed versus income. I mean, this is all the speculation that has been out there in the ether, and I just instinctively think that might be more the space that Andy Burnham is in, not least because not from Labour mps and not from Andy Burnham himself, he says he has got the legitimacy to lead because we live in a parliamentary democracy. But of course, he's already facing calls from some of the opposition parties saying, where is your mandate? So if he came then in and really diverted from the labor manifesto, it might amplify, amplify those calls a little more, possibly.

[Adam Fleming]

And Faisal, just to go back to John Healey's sort, I was going to call it a surprise appointment, but it was only a brief moment of surprise because it then sort of instantly made political sense of why it happened. And he sort of, sort of visually settled into the Role of Chancellor really, quite quickly. I mean, you were there in the treasury, weren't you?

[Faisal Islam]

Yes.

[Adam Fleming]

As he walked in.

[Faisal Islam]

Yes. You know, it was a surprise because some of the reporting was wrong. I mean, and it was.

[Adam Fleming]

Wouldn't be the first.

[Mike Townsend]

It was pretty.

[Faisal Islam]

I mean, I mean, you can't, like.

[Adam Fleming]

Although what I can't tell is if the reporting was wrong or the briefing was done to test out different candidates and the. The results of that testing led to John Healy.

[Alex Forsyth]

But maybe not the testing. Perhaps just the very virtue of the briefing that Andy Burnham professes to despise then led him away from those individuals.

[Andy Burnham]

I.

[Faisal Islam]

Well, I don't know. This is quite interesting inside. I'm not, you know, I'm occasionally averse to inside baseball stuff, but I think there may be something in the fact that. That they held a lot of information very, very tightly and it may be that nobody really knew. Here's why it's interesting, this. I think that people were told that Middleband hadn't got it and then maybe two and two were added together a bit too quickly on what that necessarily meant. Because you're absolutely right. When we saw John Healey go into Downing street, and then I thought, because

[Adam Fleming]

he was the first big name, I

[Faisal Islam]

mean, like, of course, former Treasury Minister for five years. Not just that he did big things

[Adam Fleming]

like setting up HMRC for Gordon Brown and like big projects like that.

[Faisal Islam]

Yeah, yeah. And an absolute nerd on regional policy. Right. You just write nerdy documents on regionalism with Ed Balls before he was in

[Adam Fleming]

favor of building lots of social housing as well.

[Alex Forsyth]

All that.

[Faisal Islam]

All that sort of stuff. And so you. You can see. And I, yes, I did see, I. I did the pool interview on behalf of broadcasters in the sort of rotunda where they shot Skyfall. It was a Skyful.

[Adam Fleming]

I think so, yeah.

[Faisal Islam]

Good.

[Monday.com Ad Team]

Yeah.

[Adam Fleming]

He just came in through the door.

[Faisal Islam]

He didn't. But, no, he was clearly delighted to be Chancellor, but very keen to communicate all of that stuff about being fiscally credible. I. I did ask the question, obviously, that everyone wants to ask about the 3% defense target. There has been an assumption, I've seen out in Westminster, that because he's been appointed to that, then necessarily. What, he resigned over a month ago, which was getting the 3% defense as a proportion of GDP by 2030. That is therefore obviously going to happen. Well, I put that to him and he didn't buy. Now, I mean, he wouldn't have been. Why he would have made such a massive physical giveaway. But, you know, I noted it. I Noted some, you know, creation of space for potentially. That's not actually happening.

[Adam Fleming]

I've just checked. It was actually Specter. They filmed in that circular courtyard in the treasury called the Rotunda. And in Skyfall, it's Whitehall in general, because it's. Big scene in Whitehall, right. Then they go into the Tube, right. And Inspector, he's walking through the treasury courtyard with Ms. Moneypenny.

[Monday.com Ad Team]

But.

[Faisal Islam]

But like, I'm. I'm, you know, the test for me. And when I was thinking about West Streeting versus Shabana Mahmood and I was wondering, you know, who. Also Ed Miliband, I should say, versus West Reading was taken.

[Adam Fleming]

He was a wild card.

[Faisal Islam]

The runnings a few weeks back, we're streeting. I was thinking one of the tests for me isn't just about, you know, economic hinterland, but it's also about can you get this. Can you get the tough stuff that we think is going to come, for example, on Neets. So youth unemployment support and potential eligibility for mental health payments and disability, or

[Adam Fleming]

maybe not even letting under 25s access, lots of that, all that sort of stuff.

[Faisal Islam]

What is going to come out of the Milburn Review, which Andy Burnham and team have fully backed, that could, you know, raise some questions, and that's due

[Adam Fleming]

in the autumn and that's around budget time as well. Yeah, yeah, this budget is shaping up.

[Faisal Islam]

Exactly. And which Chancellor can get that passed? The labor backbenches.

[Alex Forsyth]

And also on that note, the other thing about John Healy is that his appointment will not alienate any particular wing of the Labour Party in the way that other appointments might have, because he is famously not an MP who has, you know, kind of really belonged to any particular faction. And therefore, in the appointment of somebody else, there might have been some grumpy labor backbenchers who thought, you've got a Chancellor that doesn't necessarily align with their perspective. You don't have that in the same way with the appointment of John Healey

[Adam Fleming]

and Alex, we've got a new acronym that we're going to have to get used to, and I'm not sure how to pronounce it. Hopefully you get this reference when I say Opemka.

[Alex Forsyth]

Oh, yeah, I do. Is that it? Is that what we're going to call.

[Adam Fleming]

No one's going to call it Opemka. I'm just trying to.

[Alex Forsyth]

Is this the office? The office of the Prime Minister and the Cabinet?

[Adam Fleming]

Yeah.

[Alex Forsyth]

Okay.

[Adam Fleming]

Opmc.

[Alex Forsyth]

Yeah. That's quite good. Well, let's just coin the phrase everyone's. Everyone's going to be on it soon. Adam, I'm with you.

[Monday.com Ad Team]

Yeah.

[Alex Forsyth]

I mean, this is actually quite a fundamental shift and I don't want to get, you know, too tied up in the kind of inner workings of the structures of government, but they do kind of matter. So what's happening is there's two things, really. So the first thing is we've had a little bit more information about the role of number 10 north, so the number 10 that Andy Burnham is going to create in Manchester. And secondly, we've had this information about this new office of the Prime Minister and the Cabinet. And on the first point around number 10 north, that is going to take primary response, strategic responsibility for a real key plank of Andy Burnham's agenda, which is this idea of devolution, shifting power outside of Westminster, from Westminster and Whitehall to the regions across England specifically. And the strategic stuff on that is going to be now done by number 10 north, rather than the treasury or the Ministry for Housing, Communities and Local government also. Number 10 north, therefore, is going to be tasked with, again, the strategy behind driving regional economic growth. Because you've got to remember this whole devolution agenda is part of Andy Burnham's whole economic plan. He thinks if you can really transform the. Where power sits fits so that areas have much more say over driving investment or building, housing or whatever it is, he thinks you can get the economy growing that way. So that's a really quite significant thing that we are told that the treasury and the Department for Housing, Communities and Local Government are still going to have a really crucial role to play. But the overarching strategy sitting with number 10 north, and the second one is this new office. What's the acronym again?

[Adam Fleming]

Opemca.

[Alex Forsyth]

Thank you very much. Opimka. So that is basically, I think, about having a kind of centralized team that can drive the Prime Minister's agenda. And again, you will remember that Andy Burnham has talked about the kind of resistance of Whitehall that he encountered as the Mayor of Greater Manchester, particularly to this idea of shifting power out of London to other places by London, I mean Westminster and Whitehall, not London, the City. And I think that this is sort of an attempt to make sure that doesn't happen under his watch. So it's about a kind of.

[Monday.com Ad Team]

Of.

[Alex Forsyth]

They say it's about focusing on the sort of top strategic priorities of the Prime Minister in the Cabinet. They're gonna. This new office is going to answer to the Prime Minister and the Cabinet. And I think it's about driving Andy Burnham's agenda through. And the other thing to mention about that is Louise Hague, who is the first Secretary of State, slash sort of de facto Prime Minister. She's going to have a really crucial role in all of this, in trying to push through that Andy Burnham devolution agenda, which he does think is in large part an answer to the country's growth problem. So a kind of important big structural change. And what I don't know qu is what that's going to mean for other departments, how they function, how they operate. Is everyone going to be happy and on board?

[Adam Fleming]

And also there's going to be an AI task force. Faisal, I don't know if you've heard about this.

[Faisal Islam]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Adam Fleming]

And there's going to be a senior AI advisor appointed to the Prime Minister who will work along with the AI minister who's now going to attend cabinets. Yeah, that sounds like quite a big deal as well.

[Faisal Islam]

Well, because. Because I. I think this has been confirmed that they've. They've scrapped the department that was housing. All of that. That Peter Kyle's old. No, not Peter.

[Adam Fleming]

Cars.

[Faisal Islam]

Liz Kendall's old, old department has gone. He now sits in Cabinet. Now, I think this is important because it was one of those issues that was hugely important to the future of everything. We're told all, you know, world leaders conferences. Obviously, the former Prime Minister Tony Blair talks about it a lot, but we'd heard very little out of Team Burnham about AI happens to be a bit of a. A mini tech boom happening. It is mainly centered around London, Cambridge, Oxford. And so where that sat within the sort of Burnham world view of the United Kingdom, no one really knew. There was the odd bit of briefing. And again, I'm a little bit skeptical about. Some of the advisors to. Burnham says, say this, you know, for example, saying that he was against or he was skeptical about how great driverless cars were, for example. And there are trials happening in London right now for various driverless cars and there's some. There's some really impressive UK companies. And, and, and for example, we should think about what happens to the Uber drivers and the black cab drivers. It's a really important and interesting point.

[Adam Fleming]

I saw two driverless cars are part of the trial, sort of almost driving into each other the other day. They're. And having to work out what to do about when a driverless car meets another driverless car on a very narrow road.

[Faisal Islam]

Well, there was a bizarre situation in San Francisco when they started beeping at each other and people thought they'd invented a new language. If that doesn't trouble you, however. Yeah. So we don't know the instincts, you know, and we don't know, you know. Is there a perception that the previous administration again was a bit too. Drinking the Kool Aid about AI at a time when in the US for example, there's a bit of a political backlash? Would a sort of Andy Burnham vibe on AI embrace it or kind of ride with some skepticism about its impact on jobs?

[Adam Fleming]

Put higher business rates on a data center to help fund a business rate cut for pubs? Or do you only put that on warehouses as he's described?

[Faisal Islam]

Well, and then, then sort of some more fundamental issues really about. About how, how you tax. You know, Rishi Sunak was saying, you know, was it really sensible to increase the cost of jobs, of labor, of hourly labor, at a time when AI is showing itself as substitutable.

[Adam Fleming]

Big competition to labor.

[Faisal Islam]

Yeah. Particularly for young people.

[Host/Outro Announcer]

Right.

[Adam Fleming]

YouTube. Gotta go. But Alex, just before we do, Faisal and I found ourselves at the first night of the Proms on Friday. Oh, fancy. It was really nice. But Faisal, just explain to Alex what happened at the end of the concert for the encore.

[Faisal Islam]

The surprise was they came on and they played beautiful orchestral rendition of Wonderwall.

[Adam Fleming]

We all sang along and everyone got their phone torches out and. But you know, what do we know

[Alex Forsyth]

if it was a tribute to anti.

[Adam Fleming]

This is what I was going to say. I was then speaking to a seasoned labor person who happened to also be at the concert afterwards. And they came up to me and they said, say on newscast that that was the first prom of the Andy Burnham era. And so I am fulfilling my duty to my source. And I thought, actually they've got a point.

[Faisal Islam]

I think it was more of a tribute.

[Adam Fleming]

I think it was more attribute to England than the World Cup. But it certainly matched the vibe. Especially if you were an organization that wanted to win support from the Prime Minister.

[Alex Forsyth]

Yeah, savvy moves, right?

[Adam Fleming]

You two have got much more reporting to do. So, Faisal, thank you very much.

[Faisal Islam]

Thank you.

[Adam Fleming]

And Alex, goodbye to you too.

[Alex Forsyth]

Goodbye.

[Monday.com Ad Team]

This Monday.com ad was created by a team of people and AI agents. Reese, our content agent, wrote the copy based on our best practices, like mentioning Monday.com three times. That was the second. Johnny, our coordination agent, built the timeline and kept everyone aligned. Olivia, our human creative director, stayed in the loop because agents are great, but they don't always know when a joke lands. She had one note. Tell listeners it only takes minutes to build an agent. So minutes. Create your own AI agent. Today on Monday.com.

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[Faisal Islam]

Refreshers contain caffeine.

[Host/Outro Announcer]

Now.

[Adam Fleming]

You might have noticed Newscast has been hitting your podcast feeds a little bit earlier than usual because we thought we would try out publishing the podcast at around tea time so that it maybe fits in a bit better with your daily routine. So let us know what you think about our little trial of doing Newscast at tea time rather than closer to bedtime. Let us know by email newscastbc.co.uk or you can WhatsApp us on 033-01-239480. Or maybe you haven't even noticed any difference at all, in which case that's also fine. And we'll be back with another episode of Newscast, landing probably at tea time tomorrow.

[Faisal Islam]

Bye bye.

[Adam Fleming]

Newscast.

[Alex Forsyth]

Newscast from the BBC.

[Host/Outro Announcer]

Well, thank you for making it to the end of another newscast. You clearly ooze stamina. Can I gently encourage you to subscribe to us on BBC Sounds? And then, without having to do anything else, our meandering chat will miraculously make its way to your phone.