Decision Day for Andy Burnham

Summary

Newscast: “Decision Day for Andy Burnham”

BBC News Podcast – January 25, 2026
Hosts: Paddy O’Connell, Laura Kuenssberg, Joe Pike
Main Theme:
A deep dive into the political drama surrounding “Decision Day” for Andy Burnham—will the Labour Party’s National Executive Committee (NEC) allow the Greater Manchester Mayor to run for Parliament, or will he be blocked, and what are the risks for Keir Starmer’s leadership?

---

Episode Overview

This episode unpacks the high-stakes manoeuvres within the Labour Party as its leadership faces intense scrutiny over whether Andy Burnham, the prominent Manchester Mayor (and former Labour leadership contender), will be blocked or permitted to run for Parliament again. The hosts explore the implications for Keir Starmer's leadership, the internal party dynamics, and the broader reality of Labour’s apparent vulnerabilities.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Nightmare” Scenario for Keir Starmer (02:15–05:31)

• Laura opens with breaking news and outlines the key dilemma:
  • If Andy Burnham is allowed to stand as MP, he becomes a potential challenger to Starmer, fueling internal speculation.
  • If Burnham is blocked, it can trigger a major internal row that could “bring the whole thing crashing down.”
• Quote:

  “Basically it’s a nightmare for Keir Starmer either way.” – Laura Kuenssberg (02:28)

• Joe adds: Some close to Starmer “suggested to me… he doesn’t understand how weak his position really is.” (02:58)

2. The NEC Decision—Who Is In the Room? (09:05–11:46)

• Detailed speculation about the 10 members of the NEC selection subcommittee who hold the key vote.
• Possible breakdown of votes and the roles of union reps and key party figures.
• Quote:

  “This is three, one…” – Paddy (10:33) on their running tally for blocking/allowing Burnham.

  • There’s strong suspicion the Starmer-leaning side will prevail.

3. Shabana Mahmood’s Tightrope (05:56–08:14; 08:14–09:05)

• NEC Chair Shabana Mahmood is described as handling the situation with deliberate neutrality.
• She insists on taking Burnham “at his word” and not prejudging.
• Quote:

  “I am going to take what he says at face value because I know I can do that with Andy.” – Shabana Mahmood (08:43)

4. Fallout, Factionalism, and Labour’s Instability (12:00–16:24)

• Dissent within the party highlighted by an NEC letter calling the process “unprofessional and unacceptable” and decrying lack of democracy (12:00–13:14).
• The process is “being rammed through,” looking like control by Starmer's allies.
• Quote:

  “This looks like undemocratic interference. We are hemorrhaging members and losing funds.” – Excerpt from NEC letter read by Laura (12:41)

• Strategically, some feel Burnham might benefit from being blocked and achieving “martyr” status rather than risk an uncertain by-election (14:33).
• Cost concerns: A Manchester Mayoral by-election would cost £4.7 million (15:28).

5. Strategic Perspectives—By-election vs. Mayoralty vs. Party Leadership (16:24–18:15)

• The hosts debate whether the bigger risk is losing a high-profile mayor or a by-election.
• Some believe keeping the mayoralty is more important for Labour, viewing Burnham’s role as more powerful than as a backbencher.
• Quote:

  “If we get real, that is a bigger political danger to lose for Labour than it is to lose a by election. That’s the brutal kind of truth of it.” – Laura (16:14)

6. Public Perception and Precedents (18:15–22:48)

• Keir Starmer’s absence (he is away in China during this pivotal moment) is criticized.
• The contrast to previous party infighting (notably the Conservatives’ chaos prior to their defeat) raises alarm about Labour repeating history.
• “Keir Starmer’s whole stick to the public was, I’m going to end the drama. I will be Mr. Sensible… If after 18 months in office, this is what the public’s seeing…” – Laura (20:19)
• The Granita Pact between Blair and Brown is referenced as a missed opportunity for behind-the-scenes negotiation.

7. Leadership Calculus—Burnham’s Prospects and Party Stability (23:03–31:53)

• Is Burnham the inevitable successor if Starmer falters? Hosts agree it’s not that simple.
• The party is fractured, with other possible leadership contenders such as Wes Streeting and Angela Rayner.
• “It’s not a done deal even if he makes it back. So there’s risk for him too. But the jeopardy for Keir Starmer is really intense.” – Laura (31:18)
• The “lose-lose” dynamic is repeatedly emphasized: Every possible decision increases risk to Starmer.

8. Wider Political Context and Irony (31:53–End)

• Discussion of Burnham’s repeated yet unsuccessful leadership bids—he’s failed twice before.
• Touches on Michael Gove’s warning (“Beware of unlocking this leadership problem”) and the possible call for a general election if Labour swaps leaders (27:08).
• The episode ends with a lighter discussion about Ruth Davidson and Andy Street launching a centrist Conservative movement, and some Burns Night banter.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s a real, real moment of high, high, high jeopardy…” — Laura (05:04)
• “The blocking seems to be the favorite of the insiders… Keir Starmer will look like he's weak and frit, but Andy Burnham gets to fight another day… It’s not the end of Andy Burnham’s leadership ambitions if he doesn’t go this time” — Paddy (14:51)
• “Nor indeed the enormous election that there would be at the Manchester mayoralty. Right. Which that is a major election.” — Laura (15:19)
• “The churn would drive the public completely mad.” — Laura (27:05) on the risk of rapid leadership changes.
• “It’s a lose, lose. It’s like a game of chess where every next move puts you in checkmate. It’s just a disaster.” — Laura (31:46)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:15–05:31: Laura and Joe lay out the core dilemma—Burnham as threat or martyr, the risk for Starmer
• 05:56–09:05: NEC Chair Shabana Mahmood’s balancing act + her statement (played at 08:14)
• 09:05–11:46: Who actually decides? Detailed rundown of the NEC selection subcommittee
• 12:00–13:14: Laura reads the critical NEC letter (party divisions laid bare)
• 14:33–15:28: Discussing the possibility that being blocked may help Burnham, plus election cost worries
• 16:24–18:15: By-election vs. mayoralty—where is the bigger risk for Labour?
• 20:19–22:48: Starmer’s absence, public’s dislike of party drama, parallels to Tories’ collapse
• 23:03–31:53: Leadership speculation—Burnham not necessarily next in line; lose-lose for Starmer
• 31:53–End: Wrap-up—including Ruth Davidson & Andy Street’s centrist Tory group and Burns Night reflections

---

In Summary

• The Labour Party faces a make-or-break moment as internal factions wage a proxy war over Burnham’s future.
• The process for deciding whether Andy Burnham can run for Parliament is viewed as undemocratic by some within the party.
• The risk for Keir Starmer is extreme; either outcome weakens his leadership, reflecting deep division and volatility in Labour.
• The hosts agree: This moment will linger over Labour, affecting public perception, internal morale, and possibly the next general election.

Tone:
Conversational but urgent, rich in insider detail, seasoned with humour and frustration in equal measure—reflecting the episode’s lively, informal roundtable.

---

For listeners seeking to understand the latest Labour drama—and what it reveals about the party’s leadership and future—this episode of Newscast is essential.

Transcript

[A]

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk. This message comes from Schwab. At Schwab, how you invest is your choice, not theirs. That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices. You can invest and trade on your own. Plus get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs. With award winning service, low costs and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab. Visit schwab.com to learn more.

[B]

Hey, this is U.S. olympic gold medalist Tara Davis Woodhull.

[A]

And I'm U.S. paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.

[B]

As athletes, our lives are about having.

[A]

A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.

[B]

So when it came to getting the best mortgage, we chose PennyMac. PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you.

[A]

Learn more at pennymac.com pennymac loan services llc/housing lender nmls id 35953 licensed by the Department of Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending act, conditions and restrictions may apply. We're here with newscasters who may know more in the future than we do.

[B]

It's always a funny feeling, isn't it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So if you're listening to this now, you will inevitably know more than we do at 10:39, just by virtue of being alive. Assuming that we know more every minute we're alive, don't we?

[A]

We've drafted expert witness to help us work out what will happen today. The chronology and the politics. Or on Sunday's newscast.

[C]

Newscast, newscast from the BBC.

[D]

Fat Boy Slim and me in the classroom doing our violin lessons. I was the tattletale in the class.

[A]

Can I have an apology, please? I trust almost nobody that Daddy has to sometimes use strong language.

[D]

Next time in Moscow.

[B]

I feel Delulu with no Salulu. Take me down to Downing Street.

[E]

Let's go have a tour.

[A]

Blimey. Hello, it's Paddy in the studio.

[B]

And it's Laura in the studio. And forgive me for rudely looking down at my phone, but I have just got a letter in my sticky paws. So that we'll talk about in a couple of minutes.

[D]

It's also Joe pike in the studio. I have no letter, unfortunately. I'm excited, intrigued as to what it says.

[B]

Well, it's very nice to have you with us. Shall we just do the headline situation before we get into. Oh, sorry. Oh, my naughty phone is pinging. But I am going to keep looking at it because there's all sorts of news unfolding as we speak.

[A]

Yes. So Shabana Mahmood, who's the chair of the nec, has been out today, which is decision day for this question on Andy Burnham. Block him or back him.

[B]

Exactly. And we discussed at some length yesterday, rather breathlessly, I hope not. But probably, yes. Basically it's a nightmare for Keir Starmer either way. If Andy Burnham is allowed to stand as an mp, ends up back bum on seat on the Green bench, that's a nightmare for K Starmer, because one of the people who we quite fancy replacing him one day is then there everyone will second guess all the time. Worse than having him as Manchester Mayor if he does block him. There is a row afoot that could. I think it's not mad this morning actually to say it could bring the whole thing crashing down. Joe, how would you. Yeah, I mean, I was talking to people so late last night. I've been in touch with people this morning. You just get that sense that this is such a moment for. Of high jeopardy for Kirstama and a couple of people close to all this is. Have even suggested to me, actually one of the problems here is he doesn't understand how weak his position really is. Anyway, we'll get into all of that. Joe, I'm down to hear what your assessment is of it.

[D]

I think there is one argument though, that is if you're in a weak situation and you may get challenged after the May elections, why not minimize the number of other threats on the field? You can, you can see, especially if you do have control of the nec, why you wouldn't do that. And there are certainly people on the NEC who have told me they, they think it is very possible that he will be blocked in the next couple of hours, even though there will be a backlash and MP seem so split on this, depending if they're on the sort of soft left or more to the. The centre as to whether this is a distraction and about ego or whether it is about democracy and Keir Starmer looking weak. And I, I thought Shabana Mahmood or on your programme, Laura did an expert job at walking that tightrope because she's chairing this meeting of nec officers at 11. She wants to look independent, saying she had respect for Andy Burnham but also nodding towards some of the arguments on the other side, which principally seems to be, well, you went for a different job 18 months ago and it's going to be very, very expensive to have a by election.

[B]

The problem is, I think most people I've spoken to would suggest that the position of strength for Keir Starmer would Be to say, come, of course, Andy, it would be marvellous to have you. And any attempt to block. Even to have this tiny group of the nec, not the whole lot over the decision just makes it look like he's scared. Either scared of reform taking the seat or taking the mayoralty in Manchester, or indeed scared of having Andy Barnum in the House of Commons. And I. I don't like to overstate things, honestly, even though I get very excited about stories, but, you know, people I've spoken to have been using words like insane at the notion of blocking him. Flip side. Also, other people would say it would be nuts to allow invite the fox into the hen house. But I suppose all I'm trying to say is this is a real, real moment of high, high, high jeopardy, because.

[A]

There is in recent memory the story of another mayor who entered politics. Yep, he had blonde hair. I can't remember his name, but it's precedent for trouble afoot. Trouble at mill. What kind of tone? Joe says she thought he thinks she was expertly toning. What kind of music did Shabana Mahmood play on this question?

[B]

A very careful, deliberate music. Very carefully thought through. Well, I'm the Independent Chair, so I can't possibly say anything now. It was coincidence that she was the one doing the Sunday interviews today, I have to say, I suspect the whole Labour Party was probably quite relieved that it was her because she could say, I'm the chair, so I can't say anything. The difficulty is other Cabinet people and senior figures like Lucy Powell and Ed Miliband have already been out there shooting their mouths off, saying, I think Andy should be allowed to run. Suspicion there is. They're all doing that because he's promised them a load of jobs should he end up in number 10. Angela Rayner potentially back as deputy PM. Ed Miliband said to have had the possibility of being a Burnham Chancellor dangled before him. Those are whispers. I would say Ed Miliband and Angela Renner don't get in touch and say that we're talking complete nonsense. But. But that is what people believe. Some people believe is going on here is not just Andy Burnham's ambition, but a group on the soft left who think this is the moment where they can get on their path to capturing the crown. Because K Starmer is not delivering. And we said this yesterday, but I think it's important to underline this is all happening because Kirmer is very vulnerable, because people are very unhappy with his leadership and he's very unpopular in the country. This isn't just because politicians are doing what they love to do, which is argue and fight with each other and have a pop and have a go and it's all snakes and ladders and who's up, who's down. That's what this is a symptom of, isn't it?

[D]

Yeah. And Shaban Mahmood may also be looking to the future. Now, she may deny this too, but I thought she must be thinking about the future for herself too, whether she wants to be a leadership contender or a senior Cabinet minister under Wes Reading, Angela Rayner, Ed Miliband, Andy Burnham. You do not want to end today, Sunday, looking like you're somebody who has punctured those ambitions. You want to try and keep your fingerprints off this decision, especially if it's controversial. So I thought in a weird way, it was perfect that she could. Could make the Chair point saying, I've got to be independent.

[B]

Exactly. It was a bit of an insurance policy for her. Let her stay out of it. Should we have a listen to how she tried to. Well, I was going to say defend. Defend is the wrong word. This is how she answered the question of should or. Or should he not run as an mp?

[C]

Look, I think we should take Andy at his own word. I really appreciated the tone of the letter that he wrote yesterday. He addressed that letter to me as the Chair, but it was for the wider party as well. And his case, as he has made it, is to want to come in and be part of the team and to take the fight to reform, using the success of Manchester as part of that argument.

[B]

He's also said, clearly, mayoralty up for grabs in reform, which is a much bigger job, with no offence to individual MPs. That's a huge job compared to being.

[C]

Which. Let me just deal with that moment. But Andy has said in his own words that Keira is the best person to be the Prime Minister. And he's made it very clear in his letter what his motivation is for wanting to come into Parliament. I do believe Andy Burnham because I take him at his word. I've never had any reason not to take him at his word. I trust him. As I say, we work very closely together and I am going to take what he says at face value because I know I can do that with Andy.

[A]

Can I be the one to say who are the 10 who are on the selection subcommittee of the NEC?

[B]

Yeah. So we can be proper squares now, even for newscasters. This is niche. Okay, so there are 10 people who will make this decision.

[A]

Can I try Have a go at guessing them.

[B]

Yeah, you can, because I don't know them. But then if you run out, then that will leave me and Joe to fill in like the last maybe one or two.

[A]

Well, that'd be fun. So I think Keir Starmer's on this election.

[B]

Yes, he is. So he's going to vote for what Keir Starmer wants to do. As we understand it, he at this point is said to be wanting to block Andy Barnum.

[A]

I think Shabana Mahmood's on the selection committee.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

I'm not clear if she has a vote.

[B]

Yes, she does. And if it's a tie, she might have the casting vote.

[A]

And now I've run out of names.

[B]

Okay. Ellie Reeves, she is on the nec. She is also Rachel Reeves sister, I imagine. But I don't know if you would agree with this joke that she would probably be on the side of blocking Andy Burnham. I would have thought you would have.

[D]

Think so. You'd think so. She's closer to Starmer than. Than Burnham. Definitely.

[B]

So then we have Lucy Powell, the deputy leader of the party. She has already overtly says she thinks that Andy Barnum should be allowed to run. So that's one in the other column.

[A]

Right. I've got four. I've got one. Oh, I. I had two, so I marked a six.

[B]

Am I okay?

[A]

Six.

[B]

Where did you get six from?

[A]

I've only done so far, I hope. Shall I do the vote? Should I be?

[B]

Exactly. So let's. I mean, we will. We may be completely wrong, but let's do. This is three. One.

[A]

Joe, you keep going the list.

[D]

Peter Wheeler is the vice chair of Labour's nec. You won't have heard of him. The NEC treasurer, Mike Payne, and then two representatives of two trades unions, the GMB and usdor, both of which are quite sort of starmerite unions at the moment.

[B]

Yeah. And I. There's been lots of discussion in union circles about the right thing to do and the wrong thing to do. Whispers to me this morning and then the last 24 hours suggest that both those unions are likely to block. But I would say that that is definitely not confirmed. And those other officers of the party that you mention are likely to be seen as Starmer allies. So if all that comes to pass, then, Paddy, if you're doing the tally, we're probably over the six that would be required to block Andy Barnum.

[A]

Yeah, but I think we've only named eight of the 10.

[D]

Two more, Gurinder Singh Josan, who's an MP, the PLP representative who I don't know, but I think he's a sort of blue Labour West Midlands mp. And therefore you think would be a Starmer, Right. Certainly. His predecessor I would call a Starmerite. And finally, the CLP representative is somebody called Abdi Diwali.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And the CLP means constituency Labour Party is the members, and members do not like being cut out of decisions. So, from our tot up, that may well prove to be completely wrong and has been an incredibly niche parlour game for a Sunday morning. But that suggests that the count on the committee of 10 would be likely to vote for blocking Andy Burnham. However, the letter that my sticky paws have got is from officers of the wider NEC who are trying at the last minute to get a pause on the whole timetable because they're not. They're not involved, they are not happy, they believe. And let me just read you some of this. Dear Shabana and Peter, we are writing to you as NEC Chair and vice Chair. As members of the nec, we have deep concerns about this process. The wider NEC should have their say. It is unprofessional and unacceptable. This looks like undemocratic interference. We are hemorrhaging members and losing funds. We refuse to let any circumstances accelerate that situation or further. We asked for an immediate pause of the current timetable and that the whole committee should be included. Now, look, I don't think that's likely to happen.

[D]

No.

[B]

But as a little flavor of how unhappy people are about how this is all being rammed through and it looks like it's being controlled by Starmer's allies. It's not a happy ship.

[D]

And Shimanamu did say to you on your program, Laura, that the core of the NEC, these 10 officers, dealing with parliamentary selections, is quite normal. So that would, I suppose, be the NEC officer's response to that letter, even though I'm sure whatever happens here, it is going to be incredibly controversial and some people are going to be very, very unhappy.

[B]

That's right. But someone very experienced in the party said to me last night, look, this is the kind of process, yes, sure, you use it run up to a. In the run up to a general election, the leadership was trying to, you know, get their candidates on the ballot paper. When you're dealing with hundreds of people and you're kind of trying to ram it through and make sure you've got your allies in place to use it in this kind of process, when the stakes are so high and the characters are so well known and it's about the future direction of the party. It's a different order issue and the huge potential advantage. Someone was joking to me this morning, actually the ideal scenario for Andy Barnum here is that he does get blocked because then he doesn't run the risk of losing the by election. He doesn't lose his nice job as manager mayor, where he's been very successful in many ways. And also enter the narrative of him being the great martyr.

[A]

I mean, we were role playing that situation yesterday.

[B]

We were, yeah. God knows what we said yesterday because we were very excited by the story.

[A]

Well, I think there's a lot of traction in that because the, the blocking seems to be the favorite of the insiders. I, I came out yesterday saying I don't think he'll be blocked just in order that we had an interesting rivalry.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But just leaning into the fact that he is blocked, it means sort of everyone wins because Keir Starmer will look like he's weak and frit, but Andy Burnham gets to fight another day. It's not the end of Andy Burnham's leadership ambitions if he doesn't go this time to a by election whose outcome is uncertain because we're dealing with multi party politics. Britain is in new primary colors politically and we can't and should never take constituents for granted in an election.

[B]

100%, especially by elections, which can be completely crackers. Nor indeed the enormous election that there would be at the Manchester mayoralty. Right. Which that is a major election.

[D]

4.7 million pounds it cost last time, so it wouldn't be cheap this time either, I don't think.

[B]

Right. And that's one of the arguments that's been made by Starmer's allies is look, this whole thing would cost a lot of money. But I think the onus was being suggested to me is that on Starmer's allies, if they do block him, the onus will be on them to get out there and make a good convincing argument for why they did this. And one of the things here is it plays into the different levels of politics that we have right now. So being an MP is an incredibly important job as part of the fabric of our country. So being a big, powerful Metro mayor with control over police, control over hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of pounds, a big national political platform. I think if we get real, that is a bigger political danger to lose for labor than it is to lose a by election. I think that would be. Is that I. That's the brutal kind of truth of it. I'm not doing down in the importance of mps but I think that's true.

[A]

Michael, go on Reddit for right this morning saying that saying also beware of unlocking this leadership problem because it didn't go well for us in the Conservatives.

[B]

Right?

[A]

He said I would block, I would block Andy Burnham, but I would do it by saying, you've already got a top job. Never mind my top job, you've got a top job running Manchester.

[B]

And the risk for some people who are close to Starmer in that camp been saying to me is, look, everyone's obsessing about this by election. Actually, get real. Think about the mayoralty. On some polling, it looks like it might be easier for reform to win the mayoralty than it would be to win that by election. So the argument was going, and I was going to say the early hours of this morning, not the early hours of this morning on the phone in conversations last night. Get real. The risk of having a reform mayor with control over police, a big national platform, is much bigger than having a backbencher who goes takes the tally of reform MPS from 6 to 7. Now in any way for Kirama to make that argument is either saying, well, you scared of Andy Barnum or are you scared of reform? Right. I mean, it's not an argument that you're making for a position of strength. But it's interesting the Westminster in the lobby Focus, much as I love the lobby, has been very much about the by election and I think less so thinking about what the consequences of the mayoralties might be. We know how Boris Johnson used it to be king over the water. We know how Andy Barnum has used it very effectively in the last few years and I think maybe that side of things has been slightly underlooked.

[A]

I think that's true. I think it's typical of the Westminster focused bubble art to bubble art, just to kind of ignore parts of the country which are run in different ways. I think it's really fascinating argument you're making to me. It's making me see it in a new way. And of course it does all come together today. The meeting starts at 11. Joe starts at 11.

[D]

We don't know how long it will last and we won't necessarily get an announcement immediately after. The NEC is not a hugely transparent organization and presumably it would be appropriate for Andy Burnham to get a call from the party general secretary or maybe from Shaban Mahmoud to the chair of the NEC before anyone else. I. I think your point, Laura, about the importance of the Manchester mayor job is something that a lot of MPs are also thinking about one that jumped out at me yesterday was from Joanie Reed on social media. Scottish Labour MP who said he's not even halfway through his term as mayor. And frankly, mayor of Greater Manchester is a bigger job than being a bench mp. So either he's seeking a quieter life or he's on manoeuvres if it's the last thing we need in the run up to the May elections. And I would contest. Paddy, your view that this would be good if Andy Benworth, who's blocked. Because I think the timing would be absolutely perfect getting this seat, one it is a seat that makes sense for him to have. He's obviously popular in Greater Manchester. We saw that with this incredible result at the last election, 2024. The timing is perfect. You get into Parliament two months ahead of the May elections, a possible leadership challenge. You have time to get your staff together, start making relationships with MPs, build alliances with those on the soft left. This is the perfect moment for Andy Burnham. And I think if he was rejected and blocked, that makes his path to power that a little bit more difficult.

[A]

Well, I do feel schooled by the two of you, and I'm saying it.

[B]

Oh, no. Well, we didn't agree, though. I agree. I agree with.

[A]

Well, the thing is, I feel schooled generally just by being in this room. But I think the thing is, when you said they're gonna have to pick up the phone after the NEC makes its decision, I can't help thinking that it would have been a very good idea if they'd all picked up the phone before Andy Bernard declared to run. Because you could have said, guys, there is a potential for labor to be weakened by a psychodrama leadership skedaddle. Why don't we talk about it in advance?

[B]

Well, then you've got to imagine, though, that all of these characters actually enjoy talking to each other on the ph. I think the other thing to say, though, as you allude to, there is probably most of importantly of all, that the public booted out the Tories with a shocking defeat because they'd had enough of endless, sometimes nonsensical infighting about who was going to be in charge and the direction of the party. Of course, there was Brexit in a pandemic and all those other very big, serious things that happened, too. And Brexit was partly as a product, actually infighting on the right that had gone on for a very, very, very, very long time. But Keir Starmer's whole stick to the pol, to the public, was, I'm going to end the drama. I will be Mr. Sensible. It'll all be cal. His posh phrase was politics will tread a little lighter on your lives if after 18 months in office, this is what the public's seeing of this party. Not just that, actually, government's pretty hard and it's taking longer for them to be able to show any results, but actually they're fighting amongst themselves and he's.

[A]

Going to China and he's going to.

[B]

He's not even gonna be in the country this week. I mean, talk about maximum jeopardy.

[A]

What do you make of that, Joe? The Prime Minister and leader of the Labour Party takes a big decision which is controversial in either way. It goes today and then goes to China.

[D]

That's a classic, isn't it? Of, I mean, many, many of the trips you must have been on as political editor, Laura, where you're in some glamorous location with these big sort of geopolitical figures. Big world. Naturally, the UK Prime Minister is asking some seemingly quite provincial question about a by election in Greater Manchester. We've seen that before, we see it again. It looks silly, but it matters. And even if he's halfway across the world, Paddy, I don't think Keir Starmer's gonna escape all those tough questions from the lobby press pack. He'll be chasing him.

[B]

That's absolutely right. But it also means that for he and some of his key allies, I don't know what the staff list is going on the trip, but it also means they won't be physically present. And so much of politics is despite, you know, whether or not you like taking phone calls from people. A lot of it's face to face, it's arm twisting, it's convincing, it's wrangling, it's going around the tea rooms. If he's out of the country and some of his key lieutenants will be with him, that is not going to make this any easier. Not least because some mps think, look, part of the problem here is the optics that he's never even here.

[A]

Because I think there's another meeting I'm being reminded about now which took place in a restaurant between Tony Brown and Gordon Brown.

[B]

Oh, the Granita pact.

[A]

And I can't help but feel it would have been a very good idea for this party if Andy Burnham and Keir Starmer had met in a curry house.

[B]

But that would suggest that Andy Burnham is the obvious natural successor in the way that most people in New Labour would have seen Gordon Brown. Brown as being at that point, not later on and you had all sorts of other people and David Miliband and people like, you know, other people fancied.

[A]

What do you think about my fantasy curry house meeting? Would it have been a bad idea?

[D]

How did the granita pack work out? I mean, sort of medium term, not that well. And I think that granita is closed out. Wasn't it briefly a Mexican restaurant? I'm not sure what it is closed down today.

[B]

But, I mean, I'm not sure if Andy Barnum and Keir Starmer will get past the Papadoms, to be honest. I mean, there isn't any love lost between their camps, not least because of the dancing around this that Andy Burnham has been doing for some months. And if he goes ahead with this, you're gonna kill. Still here. Very anti Andy Burnham briefing coming from some people in the central bit of the Labour Party. Remember what happened when he said that Labor's in hock to the bond markets? There was a genuine financial reaction. Do people who've been fighting for the Rachel Reeves, Keir Starmer vision of the Labour Party, which is all about stability, do they see Andy Barnum as being someone who's useful for them to have around and. No, they do not. But for people who've been at the heart of the kind of Keir Starmer, Rachel Reeves vision of the world, giving more prominence to someone who has said we shouldn't be in hock to the bond markets, when they would say, well, that's a financial reality when the country's got so much debt. Is that really the kind of journey that the Labour Party wants to go on? Some of them do, yes. But that's not the only strand of opinion. This isn't just about personality, this is also about policy differences too. And many people believe that Andy Burnham is very vulnerable on some of the kinds of policy platforms that he says he believes in.

[D]

This is a bit of a side issue, but Grenita is now, I think, Anthropologie, 127 Upper street, which is a shop.

[B]

Oh, I love anthropology. It's dead pricey, though. But it's dent they got like clothes and, you know, the nice things that you don't need. You know, those shops.

[D]

I couldn't personally. I mean, I know Keir Starmer is from North London, but could you really imagine him and Andy Burnham looking through sort of cashmere sweaters and candles, making a. Making an agree over the future of the Labour Party?

[B]

They both do the kind of centrist dad bomber jacket, though. Right. But they're not going to get this anthropology.

[A]

They've also in picture in one of the Sundays Today with them side by side or look at each other, they're both wearing similar posh specs, they've got the same type of frame of glasses. But it's all coming to a head today. Do we think that we will have news? It won't be postponed despite your letter, it will go ahead. People will divide and Labour's opponents will have a very good opportunity on Monday to make hay out of this moment, this decision.

[D]

Absolutely. I think the opposition could do. But they might want to stay back and just let the sort of Labour rats in a proverbial sack go at each other, because different wings of the party already seem to be frustrated by this. MPs are obviously not at Westminster over the weekend, but once they're all back, they're all chatting and some are getting in front of TV cameras, it could be a bit problematic because if the.

[A]

Plan by Rachel Reeves and Keir Starmer, who are now yoked together, aren't they? Because when she wept in Parliament, he had to make it clear that he stands by, he can't sack her. So if they don't get growth Labour and if the outcomes worsen, it doesn't really matter who the Labour Prime Minister is. If you follow the argument that the only way to save the Labour government is by delivering things that the country recognizes are change and improvement.

[B]

Except it always still does matter whose label is on the tin. Right. It just does. Because incredible leaders can make the best of terrible situations. Terrible leaders can make the worsts of fabulous situations.

[A]

But it's the churn. It's the fact that as you. You reminded me, the public saw the Conservatives run out of Prime Minister without a general election.

[B]

And I think the churn would drive the public completely mad.

[A]

Michael Gove said, beware, once you. Once you go down this risk and the Mail on Sunday. I think it's the Mail on Sunday today think, or it may. Yes, I think its comment section says if they change the leader, there'll be calls for general election.

[B]

Well, you can imagine that, can't you? I mean, Nigel Farage is already on the warpath about canceled council elections. You can imagine it's an easy thing for an opposition party to say. Of course you would. You know, it's easy peasy. Still extraordinary to think that this is a government that has got an absolutely enormous majority and we're not even 18 months in and it's ended up with this. But I still don't know the answer to this. Question. You know, Paddy, because I've bored you with this before, the two tests for is party going to change a leader? One, is the current leadership genuinely agreed by a majority in the party to be on repair beyond repair, beyond reproach. It's over, done, dusted. I'm not sure that Labor's actually genuinely in that place. A lot of them are, but as a whole group, I'm not sure that they're in that place at all. Second point, if they have said yes to question one, is there then agreement on someone who would persuasively be better? I don't think they're there yet either. So it feels to me that this could all tumble into a terrible accident for Keir Starmer and whatever happens is making his life and will continue to make his life much harder, whatever outcome is. But I don't know if that means. But I'm not sure if that means that definitively he's done, even though some people would tell you that.

[D]

And ironically, he's actually had a reasonably good week on the international stage. Right. In terms of his toughening language on Wednesday in PMQs towards Donald Trump. And then the response to Donald Trump's comments around Afghanistan, actually he's looked stronger and there are mps and ministers who think he's in a bit of a better position maybe to last beyond May. Well, they said that before the antics of of this weekend and maybe they'll have different views early next week.

[B]

Well, they might do. But also what happened at conference was Andy Burnham was the one who ended up looking a bit daft because he sort of exploded and then didn't actually go for it.

[A]

He was mocked.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And of course, as we discussed yesterday with Gemma Bolton, who's on the NEC and accuses this small subgroup of being an example of control freakery, I. I reminded her that that Andy Burnham has troubled the Labour Party before with the question could I be your leader?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And the answer came back no.

[B]

Twice.

[A]

Though that's quite an important detail, not.

[B]

Least because I found an absolutely hilarious looking News report from 2010 when some young irritating reporter interviewed him about his leadership ambitions and he burnt the toast while we were being filmed having breakfast. It wasn't obvious that the guitar playing, football loving former health Secretary would run to be leader.

[D]

Come with he, Laura.

[A]

Okay, no problem.

[B]

But when I met him at his London flat for breakfast, he explained what he sees as the failings of New Labour and how he could put it right, even if he does burn the toast.

[D]

I have felt for a long Time that Labour looked like we were dazzled by power, money, glamour.

[A]

Isn't it relevant that you've stood before. You do look like you've had a kind of lifelong, you know, leadership lust.

[D]

Yeah, I suppose. Third time lucky. I mean, Joe Biden is the obvious example of somebody who earlier in his life was seen as somebody who coveted the presidency because of that plagiarism in the late 80s of a Neil Kinnock speech. He was sort of knocked out of the Democratic race and yet many decades later grabbed it. So maybe you keep. You keep on at what you. At the job you want and eventually you'll get there. But the stars really need to align.

[B]

For Andy Burton and it's a reminder that actually he's not inevitably, that he's not the only possible choice. Right. So this is not like, in a way it's different to the Boris Johnson situation when it was like, if he's in Parliament, the Tory party members are going to go for him. It just seemed like as soon as he's there, it's going to be different. That's not the case this time. And Andy Barnum represents a. Legitimately represents a strand of labor opinion, but not the only one. And just a couple of weeks ago we were talking about whether Wes treating have had the numbers and who knows, in a few weeks we might be talking about whether Angela Rayner might have the numbers. So this is not a done deal even if he makes it back. So there's risk for him too. But the jeopardy for Kirstama is really intense. And you know the kind of things that people are saying to me yesterday, it's a lose, lose. It's like a game of chess where every next move puts you in checkmate. It's just a disaster. And you know, you have to be Houdini to get out of this one without hurting yourself.

[A]

I don't think Houdini played chess, but if he did, I don't know, he'd have played it very well. Look, we've exhausted all outcomes.

[B]

No, we haven't exhausted it. I could do this for hours and hours and hours more.

[D]

Andy Burnham is a marathon runner and so is Laura Kuenssberg on this topic.

[A]

Well said. That's a sign that we are at the end. I always look at the moment to try and end.

[B]

Shut me up, you mean?

[A]

No, I just think when the metaphors are being so mixed, it's normally a sign we'd run out just before we go.

[B]

Tired of juggling dozens of supplements. Im8 is different. Co founded by David Beckham and developed with experts from Mayo Clinic and NASA. It's an all in one daily drink.

[F]

That replaces 16 supplements in one scoop.

[B]

World no.1 tennis player Aryna Sabalenka trusts it. In a clinical study, 95% reported a noticeable boost in daily energy and 85% experienced better digestion. Real energy isn't forced, it's balanced. Visit iamatehealth.com iheart and use code iheart for 10% off plus a free welcome kit.

[F]

That's imaidhealth.com iheart code iheart you don't.

[A]

Just live in your home, you live in your neighborhood as well. So when you're shopping for a home, you want to know as much about the area around it as possible. Luckily, homes.com has got you covered. Each listing features a comprehensive neighborhood guide from local experts. Everything you'd ever want to know about a neighborhood, including the number of homes for sale, transportation, local amenities, cultural attractions, unique qualities, and even things like median, lot size and a noise score. Homes.com, we've done your homework.

[B]

Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair done well Kitchen sink install done well Deck upgrades done well Electrical Upgrade done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years, so we know the difference between done and done well. Hire high quality [e-mail] youm know what's wild?

[E]

We can video chat from space, order groceries just by talking out loud and men have like 17 options for hair loss alone. But a brain bra that actually fits and feels good? Apparently too much to ask until now. Meet the Uplift bra from Nix. That's Knix, a wireless bra that finally delivers real lift and all day comfort. The secret? Molded cups with a built in foam panel that gently enhances your natural shape so you get a subtle boost without wires, digging or that why am I still wearing this moment at 3pm you asked for it. We delivered in a push up bra that doesn't dig, poke or pinch and with an extensive size range from 28A through 42E, you'll be sure to find your perfect fit with the uplift. Try the uplift [e-mail] and use code perfectfit15 for 15% off your first order. That's kn Ix.com code perfectfit15nyx.com.

[B]

What on another day might have seemed like quite a big story seemed instead an interesting story which I just want to Briefly mention that Ruth Davidson, former leader of the Scottish Conservative Party, and Andy Street, Sir Andy street, former West Midlands mayor. Another Andy. They are launching a Conservative movement tomorrow to basically stand up for what they see as the center ground. Now, it was dead interesting because obviously this is going to be annoying for Cammy Bednock. They did, you know, quite a good job of sort of saying, oh, I'm sure she'll welcome all the ideas and we completely back her. But I suppose it's just a reminder that there's a who strand of opinion in the Tory party that have feel like they've been a bit squashed, a bit edged out, and they want to come in and create a whole debate for what they claim is 7 million politically homeless people who by implication, don't think much of what the Tory Party is up to. So there'll be more news on that tomorrow. I was going to ask newscasters for answers to what they should call themselves because they wouldn't tell me.

[A]

Oh, the middle ground of the Tory Party.

[B]

The middle ground. That could be a name.

[A]

No, no, I was just thinking what that's. That's the. That's the composer you're setting us.

[B]

That's the quiz.

[D]

And to forward.

[B]

Oh, center forward. Well, it said in the papers it was going to be prosper, but they said to me it wasn't going to be prosper, so maybe it be prosperity.

[A]

Prosperity.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Could it be. You said center forward. Did you?

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

I think that wasn't great. I mean, look at you, just big on football pad. It's much better than center back.

[B]

So. Interesting. Well, newscasters, Adam, can tell you tomorrow what they've ended up being called.

[A]

And it can't be called left winger.

[B]

No. And they wouldn't want to be called wet wet wet, which some of their critics might call them, and that would be rude. And that's a span from Glasgow anyway, because it's Burns night. You see how I did that fair.

[A]

Far your honest, sonsy face. Go on, great chieftain o the pudding race. Go on a boon the more you tack your place. Go on, paint triple therm. The groaning trencher. There ye fill your herd is like a distant hill. That's about as much as I can remember.

[D]

Oh, you know, you're Robert Burns.

[A]

Love, love, love. I was. I was educated by Aberdeen University. And. And I love my Burns and my haggis.

[B]

Oh, you've made my heart Olaf and stirred. Go and have some haggis and we'll be back next weekend. Adam will be here with more news for you tomorrow, but all that remains is to say bye for now.

[A]

Bye Bye Bye Bye.

[C]

Newscast Newscast from the BBC.

[D]

Thank you so much for making it to the end of Newscast. You clearly Copyright Chris Mason Ooze Stamina Can I gently encourage you to subscribe to us on BBC Sounds? Don't forget, you can email us anytime. It's newscastbc.co.uk and if you would like to join our Discord community to talk about everything newscast related, there is a link in the description of this podcast. And don't be scared. It's super easy to click on it and then get set up. Or you can WhatsApp us on 033-01-239480 and I promise you we read and listen to every single message. Message. Thanks for listening to this podcast. Bye.

[F]

Whether you're walking barefoot in the snow, escaping for a walk on your lunch break, or trekking halfway across the world for a lush view, it feels good when we unplug and connect to our simpler side. If only our everyday nutrition were that simple. It's time to simplify your wellness routine with Cachava. Getting the nutrition we need from that graveyard of supplements in our cupboards is often overcomplicated. Just two scoops of Kachava's all in One Nutrition Shake and you've got 25 grams of protein, 6 grams of fiber, greens, adaptogens and so much more. Plus, it actually tastes delicious. No fillers, no nonsense, just the good stuff your body craves. So instead of adding to your backstock of supplements that over promise and under deliverance, keep it simple with just two scoops that have the highest quality ingredients. Simplify your [e-mail] and use code news new customers get $20 off an order of two bags or more now through January 31st. That's Kachava K A C H A V A.com code news.