Does Andy Burnham Have A New Plan For Tax?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Does Andy Burnham Have A New Plan For Tax?"

Podcast: Newscast (BBC)
Date: July 12, 2026
Hosts: Chris Mason, Paddy O’Connell
Guests: Rachel Reeves (Chancellor), Mieta Fumbula (Former Minister & Burnham Ally), Sir Mel Stride (Shadow Chancellor)

---

Overview:

This episode dives into the pressing question of whether Andy Burnham, likely the incoming Prime Minister, will shake up the current approach to taxation amid the UK’s ongoing cost-of-living squeeze. Hosts and guests analyze Rachel Reeves’ term as Chancellor, the tax and economic policy choices Labour has made, and what early signals suggest about Burnham’s fiscal direction.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Framing the Economic Landscape (00:31–02:17)

• The “Economy, Stupid” Mantra:
  Chris Mason and Paddy O’Connell discuss how politicians believe getting the economy right underpins all political success. The UK public remains deeply concerned about the cost of living, which drives the urgency around fiscal policy debates.
• Widespread Dissatisfaction:
  The hosts emphasize that, for years, voters feel the economy has not delivered broadly shared prosperity.

---

2. Rachel Reeves’ Chancellor Record & Reflections (02:31–05:01)

• Tax and Spending Decisions:
  Chris Mason recaps Reeves’ refusal to raise main taxes, leading her to target alternative sources (like cutting winter fuel allowance) and hiking National Insurance to fund the NHS.
• Defending Her Choices:

  "There are more people in work today than when I became Chancellor, and we had the fastest rate of growth in the G7..."
  — Rachel Reeves (03:19)

  • Despite criticism, Reeves stands by key decisions, arguing average wages and employment increased during her term.

Notable Exchange:

• Chris Mason challenges her:

  "Unemployment is higher than it was when you moved here." (03:31)

• Reeves reasserts her focus:

  "The money that we raised by increasing national insurance? It went into our National Health Service... I had to decide whether I was willing to put up with NHS waiting lists fast approaching 8 million or whether I wanted to bring them down. And I made a choice." (03:47)

• Living Standards Context:
  Both hosts note (05:01–05:30) that real household incomes haven’t risen much since 2008, and youth pessimism about surpassing parents’ prosperity indicates a deep social malaise.

---

3. Looking Ahead: Andy Burnham’s Tax Plans (06:38–09:25)

• High Tax Burden:
  Tax levels are at a historic high; this is the “big question” Burnham will inherit.
• Burnham’s Early Hints:
  • Small Biz Tax Cuts:
    Burnham wants to cut taxes for small businesses, pubs, and hospitality — funded by hiking taxes on big warehouse operators (e.g., Amazon distribution centers) (06:49–07:46).
• Cost-of-Living Relief:
  • Mieta Fumbula hints at further action:

    "We do need to find ways to give people respite, and that is about money in their pockets..." (07:58)

  • Possibility of Unfreezing Tax Thresholds:
    Chris Mason raises that this idea, advocated by unions, could put more money quickly into workers’ pay (09:16).

---

4. Governing Style: "Do a Thing" vs. Review Paralysis (09:25–10:49)

• Action vs. Caution:
  Burnham’s team aims for rapid, visible action — in contrast to Starmer’s Labour, criticized for delays and unpopular first moves (like removing winter fuel allowance).
• Balancing Act:

  “Liz Truss did lots of things… and it completely blew up on the launchpad.” — Chris Mason (10:07)

  • While there’s pressure for decisive action, the risk of missteps is high. Burnham’s window to impress may be only 6–8 months.

---

5. Structural Reform and Welfare Dilemmas (11:02–11:54)

• Tax and Benefit "Cliff Edges":
  Lord Jim O’Neill and Paddy O’Connell discuss the problem of abrupt cutoffs (e.g., childcare support lost over a certain income level), penalizing incremental increases in income.

  "If you did a sort of rolling Mendips [hills] as opposed to a cliff edge, it would make a very big difference to people's lives."
  — Paddy O’Connell (11:02)

• Political Reality:
  Creating a fairer, more flexible system would be costly and complex, but the welfare bill continues to rise, forcing hard questions about funding.

---

6. Political Fallout from Reeves’ Policies (11:54–14:26)

• Winter Fuel Allowance Debacle:
  Reeves’ approach, especially the controversial cuts to pensioners, damaged her political capital, making further reforms difficult.
• Rare Praise from Opponents:
  Chris Mason points out that even “decent” political opponents like Sir Mel Stride struggle to cite positives:

  "I scratched my head on that one. I really find that rather difficult…"
  — Sir Mel Stride (13:31)

• Market “Confidence” Concerns:
  Stresses that the UK pays high interest on debt, partly reflecting global fears over current and future fiscal management.

---

7. Labour Party Cohesion and the Stakes for Burnham (14:26–18:36)

• Internal Dynamics:
  Keeping public and party support is seen as essential; appointing ministers will be Burnham’s first big test.

  “Andy Burnham’s at his most powerful right now. As soon as he starts doling out jobs, there’s going to be people who are disappointed. So keeping Labour together... is so important to the success or failure of this project.”
  — Chris Mason (17:28)

  • "The eyelashes will deliver for a day, maybe a week. ...The scrutiny is brutal. Won't last three months, never mind three years." — Unnamed Labour source (16:37)

---

8. Human and Symbolic Moments at Downing Street (18:36–23:13)

• Rachel Reeves at No. 11:
  Chris Mason describes the atmosphere in Downing Street — both grand and “slightly shabby.”

  • Reeves discusses family life, including her son playing cricket in the Downing Street garden:

    "My son likes playing cricket out here and both of my kids have had birthday parties in this garden..."
    — Rachel Reeves (22:36)

  • She humorously notes they got a cat due to a mouse problem in Downing Street (22:53).

• Reflections on Power & Change:
  The hosts underline the drama of seeing power change hands, highlighting how far one can come in the UK’s meritocracy.

---

9. Listener Engagement & Community (24:24–27:15)

• Newscast’s “Supporter Reporter” Project:
  Briefly, the show shifts to football, inviting listeners from various countries to report on their World Cup teams, spotlighting the newscast’s community feel.
• Transitions & Goodbyes:
  The episode ends with friendly banter and references to upcoming changes in government and on the show.

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On political perceptions and tax reform:

  "We do need to find ways to give people respite, and that is about money in their pockets..."
  — Mieta Fumbula (07:58)

• On core voter feelings:

  "People just want to have a government that works and leaves them alone and helps them. Can you fix the pothole? Can you cut the waiting list in my hospital? Can you do anything?"
  — Paddy O’Connell (15:41)

• On moment of transition:

  "Rachel Reeves is not an aristocrat. She's living in a Georgian home. Power is changing hands. That's the thing. I just look around myself and I wonder, is anyone conveying to me sufficiently the way that power is changing hands in our country?"
  — Paddy O'Connell (23:28)

• On the political challenge for Burnham:

  "Can they keep a relatively peaceful, positive, ish political kind of atmosphere around the party and around his leadership. But my God, it is going to be a challenge because it is brutal. It is brutal. Absolutely brutal."
  — Chris Mason (18:36)

• On learning from Starmer and doing "a thing":

  "If Andy Burnham can get the message, do a thing... that would be something that's doorstepable and it's a thing. Instead of waiting three months to then take winter fuel payments away..."
  — Paddy O’Connell (09:25)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Rachel Reeves interview & reflections: 02:31–05:01
• Burnham's tax hints and Mieta Fumbula's statements: 06:49–09:25
• Cost-of-living action strategies: 09:25–10:49
• Discussion of benefit cliff-edges & structural reform: 11:02–11:54
• Political fallout & opposition perspective (Sir Mel Stride): 12:45–14:26
• Labour Party unity analysis: 16:48–18:36
• Behind-the-scenes at Downing Street: 18:36–23:13
• Listener involvement and show community: 24:24–27:15

---

Tone and Style

Conversational, candid, and insightful, the show balances political analysis with accessible explanations, personal anecdotes, and a touch of dry British wit. Both hosts and guests offer frank assessments, with Chris Mason providing sharp political commentary and Paddy O’Connell grounding discussions in everyday concerns.

---

Conclusion

This episode offers a nuanced, inside look at the challenges facing Andy Burnham as he prepares to potentially shift Labour’s economic and tax strategy. It blends analysis of recent policy decisions, speculation about changes ahead, and rare candid moments with politicians, all while capturing the drama and continuity of high office in the UK.

Listeners walk away informed about the stakes for taxation policy, the pressures on incoming leadership, and the lived reality of those making government decisions — all crucial background as Britain prepares for another political handover.

Transcript

[Paddy O'Connell]

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK Odoo providing tools for businesses across industries into one fully integrated platform. Whatever your business needs, Odoo is committed to providing it.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Learn more at odd o.com Summer smells like citrus in the sun. Turn your home into a daily getaway with Pura's new summer collection. Find your flow and fragrance and explore the [e-mail]

[Chris Mason]

Paddy. It's the economy, stupid. Stop messaging.

[Paddy O'Connell]

I'm not messaging.

[The Zebra Insurance Advertiser]

You were.

[Paddy O'Connell]

No, but newscasters should know that you were doing some work which didn't involve me, so. But you are reminding me that most politicians think, get the economy right. You get everything right.

[Chris Mason]

Exactly. And get the economy right. Therefore, people will feel not cross. And if they don't feel cross, they are more likely to look favorably upon your efforts as a politician. And the problem in this country for successive administrations has been that people have felt cross because the economy has not been working in a way that has spread much generosity around. The cost of living is time after time after time after time at the top of the list of voters concerns. So today we're going to talk a bit more about what Rachel Reeves had to say in her interview. You can hear the full interview with probably the departing chancellor in your feedback, but we're also going to look ahead a bit to what Andy Burnham might do differently and how that might hit you and your wallet.

[Paddy O'Connell]

On this Sunday's newscast.

[Chris Mason]

Newscast, newscast from the BBC.

[Paddy O'Connell]

I will resign as leader of the Labour Party.

[Mieta Fumbula]

And what will you do?

[Chris Mason]

Stare at a wall? Humanity's next great voyage begins.

[Paddy O'Connell]

You know, I like my buses. I'll come on to them. It's supposed to be me as a doctor.

[Chris Mason]

Ooh la la.

[Rachel Reeves]

Thinking about it like a panto helped.

[Rick (Football Daily)]

Do we play music now or what do we do?

[Chris Mason]

Hello, it's Thor in the studio.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Hello, it's Paddy in.

[Chris Mason]

In your shorts.

[Paddy O'Connell]

And Henry is not at home.

[Chris Mason]

Well, Henry might be at home.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Well, we don't know.

[Chris Mason]

We don't know where Henry.

[Paddy O'Connell]

He's not here. Oh, he's not at home. He's on a stag, dude.

[Chris Mason]

Well, there you are. So let's talk about the economy. But I won't call you stupid again because that was rude. And I wasn't calling you stupid. I was quoting the phrase.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Yeah, I like the phrase. And I want. I want us to move on from the phrase. However, you have secured an interview with Rachel Reeves, which I'm excited about hearing about. And also peering ahead into what the Burnham Manifesto might deliver.

[Mieta Fumbula]

Right.

[Chris Mason]

So let's Start then with Rachel Reeves. So her big thing before she came into office was, I'm not going to raise any of the main taxes. That meant she had to look into other places to raise tax, which made her very unpopular with some businesses and it made her very unpopular with pensioners when she tried to take away their winter fuel allowance. However, she was, I would say, unrepentant, actually, about the big decisions that she made. So what if inflation is going up again? So what if unemployment has gone up during her time in office? So what if the government debt is carrying on to go up? She wanted to focus on the fact there are more people overall in jobs and that wages, not for everyone, but on average wages have gone up faster than prices have been rising. This is what she said.

[Rachel Reeves]

There are more people in work today than when I became Chancellor and we had the fastest rate of growth in the G7 and there are fewer vacancies

[Chris Mason]

and unemployment's been going up.

[Rachel Reeves]

Well, the most recent data showed unemployment rate actually come up.

[Chris Mason]

Unemployment is higher than it was when you moved here.

[Rachel Reeves]

There are more people in work today than when I became Chancellor and the economy grew faster than the United States, than Canada, than France, than Japan, Italy and Germany, according to the most recent data. So there are more people working and the wages that people are taking home are higher than when I became Chancellor. And what do you think happened to that money? The money that we raised by increasing national insurance? It went into our National Health Service. And my job is making choices and I had to decide whether I was willing to put up with NHS waiting lists fast approaching 8 million or whether I wanted to bring them down. And I made a choice that I wanted to bring those down, but I had to find the money to be able to pay for it.

[Chris Mason]

And you've argued clearly why you made those decisions. But I just wondered, do you regret any of those decisions? Because, look, it is the case, and there's huge amounts of evidence from businesses in this country that they feel those choices made it harder for them to take on staff, harder for them to grow, harder then for them to pay the taxes that would go to the things like the NHS that you so passionately believe in.

[Rachel Reeves]

I am absolutely certain if we could go back two years, there are choices that I made that would be different. But look at the big picture, look at the plan, look at the strategy that I have been pursuing. And that strategy was to return stability to the economy, to enable interest rates to come down. We are growing for the first time and seeing productivity growth in Our economy at rates we haven't seen for a long while.

[Paddy O'Connell]

You see, it's a moment in time. It may be the case that wages have gone up and of course we can measure it. However, it's also the case that, Broadly speaking, since 2008, household income has not greatly increased by some measures since the financial crisis. Living standards have not grown. It's a very unusual state of affairs. And if younger people are thinking, I ain't going to do any better than my parents, it's a very bad social situation.

[Chris Mason]

Right. And if you were born in the financial crisis in 2008, you're now 18, so you've had your whole first part of your life during an era was you say, broadly speaking, the economy's been flat. Broadly speaking, living standards have suffered. And that is the state of affairs. You know, you can argue, as Rachel Reeves did, as opposition politicians would argue, the opposite, you can argue about, oh, well, the figure went a bit up here or a bit down there and all those things. But that's the broad picture, the feels. Is it? Yeah, that's the feel. So the vibes or whatever, like the country's still feeling the pinch for all sorts of different reasons. And you had massive boring because of COVID energy prices going through the roofs because of Ukraine, more turbulence because of the war in Iran, that America and Israel started bombing Iran. But that is the big picture within all of this. And part of successive government's response to that is to put up taxes and to increase spending, just actually as the conservatives did before them, even though, you know, Conservative doesn't always say higher taxes and more spending on a tin. But that's what conservative administrations did too.

[Paddy O'Connell]

So the thing is, the tax burden has risen to the biggest since the Second World War. And this is the big question that Andy Burnham's going to inherit. He's sticking by it.

[Chris Mason]

This is kind of what is on the table for him. So he has said on the record that he's going to stick to the manifesto, but there might be some movement or some maneuver, some room for maneuver around tax. Now, he's already said, and we talked about this last week, that he wants to cut tax for small business, for pubs, for hospitality businesses, and pay for that by increasing tax on big warehouses, basically those of, you know, Amazon Depots and big, those massive, big out of town kind of aircraft hangar warehouses. So we know that one small thing which has been welcomed by many people in the hospitality industry. We'll see how he follows through with it. But this morning, what was really interesting so we had Mieta Fumbula, who's a former minister, close ally of Barnum, she's been working up plans for him. She was on the show with us this morning and she hinted at something else. She said, and I'm just going to get out the quote, so I don't get it wrong, because that would be bad.

[Paddy O'Connell]

But I have a cup of tea. While you do that, you have a

[Chris Mason]

slurp of tea and actually, let's play people. What she said. Do you expect that people at the bottom will have more money put in their pocket by Andy Burnham in government?

[Rachel Reeves]

Yes.

[Chris Mason]

In what way?

[Mieta Fumbula]

Well, look, I'm not going to get into the specifics because. Because ultimately that will be a choice for Andy and his Chancellor. But we are very, very clear, we understand that people under pressure and we do need to find ways to give people respite, and that is about money in their pockets. But it's also about driving down the.

[Chris Mason]

By implication, either means cuts, more borrowing or more taxes for people at the top and businesses who power the economy.

[Mieta Fumbula]

So, yes, no, because in the end, it's about that. It's about the choices. It's about the choices that you make. And what I'd say is we. Absolutely. So the way you bear down on the debt burden, the way that you unlock money in order to invest, is to boost our economy. Which is why I am absolutely clear that Andy will be supporting businesses, particularly the 99% of small businesses that are the bedrock of me.

[Chris Mason]

One of the small things we do know is that he's like. So the key line there is, she said, we will do something that helps with the cost of living in the short term to give people some respite, people at the bottom will have more money in their pockets under a Barnum premiership. What might that be? Well, one of the ideas that's knocking around, I know that one of the big unions has prepared proposals on this is unfreezing those tax thresholds.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Really?

[Chris Mason]

Yes.

[Mieta Fumbula]

Un.

[Chris Mason]

Not saying they're going to do that, but that is one of the things that is on the. On the table that would make a big difference to people's pay slips. Quite quickly.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Part of the critique of the Labour government under Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves is that they waited from the election till September to do a thing. And when they did a thing, it wasn't the thing that the labor voters expected them to do. And if Andy Burnham can get the message, do a thing, for instance, if he gives 16 to 18 year olds free bus travel, if they're looking for a job that would be something that's doorstepable and it's a thing. Instead of waiting three months to then take winter fuel payments away, which no one was expecting. If he comes into government learning the lessons of labor, what happened to labor, he will be flattering his mps because that's what they want him to do.

[Chris Mason]

There is though another risk to that. So Liz Truss did lots of things, she came in saying action this day. Yes, she took lots of actions very quickly and it completely blew up on the launchpad. So there is action. Is what we are being sort of briefed is how Andy bur will want to come in and say we were in a hurry, we got two and a half years, we got to get on with this rather than announcing lots and lots of different reviews into different things and hanging around. And I think people close to him reckon they've probably got about six, eight months when the public might give them another look. And they're going to have to show in that time that they are doing things that might improve people's lives. So there's huge pressure on them, but my God, there's also huge risk. And one of his other prominent advisors, Lord Jim o', Neill, who was in the treasury actually under George Osborne, so he's a sort of cross party figure, but he's been close with Andy Burnham for a while. He said there should be a radical overhaul of the whole tax system.

[Paddy O'Connell]

So if you look at child care, there's a cliff edge whereby one, the moment you earn over x 100,000 you lose childcare, so there's no point earning over X. And actually if you look at our whole British system, we're very addicted to the cliff edge. And if you did a sort of rolling mendips as opposed to a cliff edge, it would make a very big difference to people's lives. But our system has apparently never been able to come up with a rolling hills. It's a cliff edge. Right, that's it. You don't have any child care.

[Chris Mason]

But then in government you've got to have a cut off somewhere or develop. I mean, who wants to spend billions of pounds developing a very new sophisticated system that's meant to take in things here and there and can react.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Yes, I just want to. I just think welfare bill is rising. How are we going to pay for it? That's the big political question.

[Chris Mason]

And it is one of the massive criticisms of Rachel Reeves by her political opponents and some in her own party is that she sabotaged her political authority with the Winter fueled debacle. And that meant then she didn't have the power to try and win the argument on welfare when she wanted to take money out of welfare budget. And I was really struck this morning. We had her opposite number, Sir Mel Stride, on the program who's shadowed her, jousted with her in the Commons in the last couple of years. Anel Stride, I think it's fair to say and relevant to say, is a decent chap. He's one of those people in Westminster. People think that Sir Mel Stride is, is a, is a good guy.

[Paddy O'Connell]

They like him on the other side, courtesy.

[Chris Mason]

Yeah, people think he's a, he's a, he's a decent man. He's not one of those dastardly politicians who's always rushing around slagging each other off, was slagging everybody off. But this morning I asked him if there was anything he thought Rachel Reeves had got right and this is what he said.

[Sir Mel Stride]

The big test of this is what confidence does this economy command in the bond markets? And what we know is that we are paying the highest level of interest on our debt of any country in the G7, higher than Greece, higher than Morocco. And that is a reflection of the wrong decisions that this Chancellor has taken.

[Chris Mason]

That's not the same than those other.

[Sir Mel Stride]

On this point about the market action to her potentially going. That is driven by the fact that the markets fear that things could get even worse under Andy Burnham or Ed Miliband or somebody else. So it's all relative, but I'm afraid her scorecard is very low when it comes to securing the economic future of our country and commanding the confidence of those markets.

[Chris Mason]

Is there anything you think that she did that you would say, yeah, fair

[Sir Mel Stride]

enough, not a lot. I scratched my head on that one. I really find that rather difficult to feel that there was a huge amount actually.

[Chris Mason]

No, look, Rachel Reeve's record will be argued over for years and years and years. You know, there'll be books and PhDs and probably her own book one day talking about things that she got right or wrong. I think diplomatically, however, it is fair at this junction to say that her record was mixed. It's also fair to say that she inherited something that was a bit of a stinking old mess. And the financial market saw her as somebody stable, who they didn't want to, doesn't mean they loved her. But in people in the city saw her as more sort of stable and reliable. Some of the other options that might have been available. But I was very struck by, you know, A politician who's seen as a decent bloke, unable to say anything that you thought she'd done Right.

[Paddy O'Connell]

I think you can't say often enough. We've. We're watching a political couple in the Labour Party to take over number 10. And Rachel Reeves, in your interview has made it clear that she wants to work with Andy Burnham.

[Chris Mason]

She said lots of lovely things about Andy Burnham. I've always believed in fiscal devolution. Andy supports that. He's going to be success. I want him to be a success. All of those things.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Well, I think that's a very important clue. And Keir Starmer said, on the steps of Downing Street, I think there's only two steps. You know more than me.

[Chris Mason]

Yeah. There aren't steps. There's what? Basically one step and then a step

[Paddy O'Connell]

into the door on the step of Downing Street.

[Chris Mason]

Bear that in mind when people say it next a week tomorrow, when the speech on the steps of Down. Now you're enticing me to do impressions. The speech on the step of down

[Paddy O'Connell]

on the step of down street.

[Chris Mason]

And they don't even do it on the step, they do it in the road.

[Paddy O'Connell]

All right, okay. Let me just get limp to my point, which is that he said he's going to accept it with good grace.

[Chris Mason]

Yes.

[Paddy O'Connell]

And your analysis, as someone who's followed 87,000 prime ministers, is that labor, you. You really got to understand what the public think. Thinks about changing. Changing. Changing the Prime Minister. You better make very sure that you then don't all fall out again if you think the public are going to take you seriously.

[Chris Mason]

Correct.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Go. This is the thing. I think the political class is missing. When I go around the country and I've interviewed everyone in the country, people just want to have a government that works and leaves them alone and helps them. Can you fix the pothole? Can you cut the waiting list in my hospital? Can you do anything? Can you do a thing?

[Mieta Fumbula]

Yeah.

[Chris Mason]

But here's something that someone in the Labour Party said to me a few weeks ago before, what I think has been a genuine outbreak of goodwill. Actually, I think there is. There is much more goodwill in the Labour Party towards Andy Barnum, I would assess, than there was towards Boris Johnson, for example, when he took over for May, or towards Liz Truss from. I think they're in a very different place to where the Tories were because they were very, very broken and fractured as parties and Labour's been unhappy and. But at the moment, there is a. A good measure of goodwill. However, one labor experienced person said to Me a few weeks ago. The eyelashes will deliver for a day, maybe a week. But rude word insert BLEEP here. The scrutiny is brutal. Won't last three months, never mind three years.

[Paddy O'Connell]

And that's a Labour person.

[Chris Mason]

Yes. Now that sentiment is rare. Okay, so I think there are. I think that Andy Burnham's team has done quite a good job so far of pulling people together, generating excitement. He had that very significant victory in Makerfield. They have also been trying to build bridges with some of Starmer's team. They've been saying to people who work in the sort of bits of politics, oh, come and have a chat. It's not all, get out, you guys, bog off. It's all new. We're not interested in your ideas. Go away. The first big test of that, though, is going to be who gets what jobs.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Yes.

[Chris Mason]

And danger, danger, danger, danger, danger. Because politicians are ambitious people. They all want to have big jobs. If they tell you they don't want big jobs, they're telling a porcupine. Andy Burnham's at his most powerful right now. As soon as he starts doling out jobs, there's going to be people who are disappointed. So keeping labor together and, or at the very least keeping their grievances contained is so important to the success or failure of this project. Because guess what? If people aren't cross inside a political party, they don't go and tell political journalists that they're cross. You then don't get stories saying Labour mps all think that Andy Burnham is a terrible person or some Labour MPs are unhappy about XYZ. Of course there'll be disagreements, but the challenge is in the main, can they keep a relatively peaceful, positive, ish political kind of atmosphere around the party and around his leadership. But my God, it is going to be a challenge because it is brutal. It is brutal. Absolutely brutal.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Now, I watched your interview with Reg Reeves and I fanboyed enough about this and I know you don't like it when I say you've done anything interesting, but I also thought I was interested to see inside the house. I love the paint colors. I'm thinking, shall I paint my living room purple? Whatever color it is?

[Chris Mason]

It's a sort of claret, I think.

[Paddy O'Connell]

I mean, all my magnolia dreams have gone. Having seen you with Rachel Reeves, what's it like in number 11 and.

[Chris Mason]

Well, yesterday, absolutely stifling. Right. So you're in a 17th century townhouse which is, you know, Downing street is basically a 17th century terrace, 17th century fancy coronation Street. I mean, it's funny Those buildings are. But they're both beautiful. And then if you look around the edges, they're often. They're slightly shabby. So yesterday we were filming in this beautiful stateroom in number 11. Massive, glittering chandelier, huge big oil paintings on the walls, you know, big mahogany bits of furniture. There's a grand piano in the corner for some reason, just in case you wanted to, I don't know, save the Queen at your treasury drinks party or something. But then the little room off to the side, there was sort of a bin and some cardboard boxes and some stuff, you know, kind of paper lying around. Yeah. But then on the stairwell, you go up. This is amazing, I think. Sort of antique wallpaper, photographs or paintings of all the kind of chancellors that have gone before, different political cartoons. But it's funny because you also, if you've never been. I mean, you know, this job you're so fortunate to get to go to lots of amazing places. And going into Downing street is obviously, it's one of them, but it's such a warren. And also you understand how the houses are so sort of connected. So actually, when you go upstairs to number 11, and stop me if this is getting too Lloyd Grossman, you pass the bottom of the number 10 press office, which is then this big press office, and then where. Where the alleged parties are meant to have taken place and wine o' clock and all of those things, and where the director of Communication sort of sits in their big posh office in the Cor. And then, you know, when you. When we came down the stairs yesterday, you can see through to the famous hall in Downing street with the black and white checkered floor. There was a little kind of cloak room table, I suppose Larry was under there, asleep in the heat. And the corridor then goes off from that yellow corridor, takes you down to the Cabinet Room. So it's all, I suppose, all of these images of these places that are so important in the fabric of our kind of public life. You can actually see them all at the same time, you know, and it's amazing sort of feeling being in there. And it's one of the reasons why, you know, doing the jobs I've been lucky to do over the years is so sort of. Is so fortunate because you see these incredibly important locations in real life and they're sort of both incredibly grand, but also in a very British way, slightly shabby and tired and also small, you know, small and quite intimate and.

[Rachel Reeves]

And.

[Chris Mason]

And sort of, in a funny way,

[Paddy O'Connell]

not very grand at all, because the. We say a Lot on newscast that it's difficult being in public life.

[Sir Mel Stride]

Very hard.

[Paddy O'Connell]

I think it's quite an unpopular message at the moment to try and feel the human in the machine. And I think we have tried to make it plain that people are involved in politics.

[Chris Mason]

They are.

[Paddy O'Connell]

And I just wondered when I saw your film, actually, it may be hard for Rachel Reeves. We did talk about her crying, but she's got a Georgian house to live in with a garden, and she walks through the garden and I just think actually giving that up on the other side of the human in the machine, that's a big deal.

[Chris Mason]

And. Yeah, and she told us. And maybe we can play this clip because it's actually quite fun. We had a little walk around the garden before we did our interview in that incredibly, you know, sort of privileged bubble of the Downing street back garden. And actually, that's been her son's cricket pitch.

[Rachel Reeves]

Well, this is our garden.

[Chris Mason]

It's a very nice garden.

[Rachel Reeves]

My son likes playing cricket out here and both of my kids have had birthday parties in this garden. So there's definitely some upsides for them for living upstairs from my office.

[Chris Mason]

What's the downside of living here be. Is it hard to get away?

[Rachel Reeves]

Oh, it definitely is that.

[Podcast Outro Narrator]

And.

[Rachel Reeves]

Well, you know, we got a cat when I became Chancellor. Part of the reason for that is that quite a lot of mice in Downing Street. So I always, like, held out against getting a pet, but I definitely prefer a cat to mice, so maybe that's one of the drawbacks.

[Chris Mason]

Although there weren't any rats here, were there?

[Rachel Reeves]

No, no, not that I've seen.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Yeah. I mean, so, I mean, the best way to look at this is that we want the. We want a meritocracy and we want people to be able to move from the smallest of backgrounds to the biggest of houses. And that is part of the drama that's unfolding.

[Chris Mason]

Yeah.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Rachel Reeves is not an aristocrat.

[Chris Mason]

No.

[Paddy O'Connell]

She's living in a Georgian home. Power is changing hands. That's the thing. I feel. I just look around myself and I wonder, is anyone conveying to me sufficiently the way that power is changing hands in our country? I just feel it very viscerally.

[Chris Mason]

Well, I hope that we've tried to do that a bit today on YouTube, because it is huge. And I do think that maybe it's just because I would always argue for more political coverage and more political conversations. Actually, I wouldn't really, but I feel a little bit that the gravity of a Prime Minister taking over in the way that he has has been slightly kind of underplayed in a way by our marvelous news media because we're used to it. So it doesn't feel such a big deal. And I just wonder. I haven't measured it scientifically, I don't know. But I sort of feel if you wouldn't be blamed, if you remember the public for shrugging or thinking, oh, well, so what? Another one? Where's Brenda from Bristol when you need her?

[Paddy O'Connell]

I'd love to know the newscasters view. And we can bring this because next weekend is the last weekend of Keir Starmer's administration.

[Chris Mason]

Indeed.

[Paddy O'Connell]

So we might as well appeal now. Tell us as a voter, where you are.

[Chris Mason]

Absolutely. We'd love to hear those views. And I also wonder, Patty, have you ever been there when 1pm goes in the other one?

[Paddy O'Connell]

Yes. I've never been. I've. I've been on the Downey street pavement. I've never been into the building. I've never been there for moments of high drama.

[Chris Mason]

Well, why don't you. Here's an invitation. If you're free, why don't you come with me to Downing Street a week tomorrow and we watch one go out and one come in.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Wow.

[Chris Mason]

It's an amazing moment of history and you see it right in front of your eyes.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Well, I mean, the honest answer to

[Chris Mason]

that is you're washing your hair.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Well, I'm going on holiday, but the offer is.

[Chris Mason]

Is.

[Paddy O'Connell]

So it's very important.

[Chris Mason]

Fine, I'll send you pictures, then you can watch the pictures on the news.

[Rick (Football Daily)]

Whatever.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Fine.

[Chris Mason]

Not asking you again.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Can you cut that out?

[Chris Mason]

No, leave it in.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Leave it in. No, no.

[Chris Mason]

So, Patrick, we are wending our way to an end after you've turned me down for Downing Street.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Well, it's not what actually happened, but

[Chris Mason]

that's literally what happened. I mean, why wouldn't you cancel your holiday to come and hang out with me?

[Paddy O'Connell]

Changing prime minister when I booked my

[Chris Mason]

holiday, then you'd have gone away for even longer. However, we've got time to go back to a fun thing we're doing at the moment because of the World Cup Support a report which is a newscast classic. Whereas we've been trying to find somebody, a lovely newscaster to represent each team in the tournament. And we have two today. We are making our way through the teams. Eduardo is one of today's supporter reporters. Eduardo says hi. Newscast. I hope you're all doing well. Are we doing well? I think we're doing well.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Very well.

[Chris Mason]

My name is Eduardo. I'm originally from Paraguay and I'VE been living in the UK since 2024. I was wondering whether you already have a supporter reporter for Paraguay for this World Cup. Well, no, we don't. So, Eduardo, you are it. I've been listening to newscast ever since I moved to the uk, first on my commute to uni and now on my way to work. It's become a key part of my day and how I keep up with what's happening. Our win against Germany was absolutely incredible for every Paraguayan.

[Paddy O'Connell]

So I mean, it's curious because we're reading teams that have been removed.

[Chris Mason]

Yes. But our competition is to try and find somebody from every nation.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Ah, yes.

[Chris Mason]

Okay.

[Paddy O'Connell]

So, Nazreen, hello to my favorite and only podcast I listen to, which is why Nazreen's remarks are being read. I would like to apply to be a supportive reporter from Qatar and Egypt. I was raised and lived in Doha because my immediate family still lived there. I joined them in supporting Qatar in this year's World cup until they sadly got knocked out. Although I am originally from Sudan, my entire extended family has had to relocate to Egypt because of the war. And to this day, many are still unable to return to Sudan because of this. I have now joined my extended family in supporting Egypt in solidarity.

[Chris Mason]

So that's two ticked off then, Egypt and Paraguay. But we've roped in some help to try and work out which teams are left to go.

[Rick (Football Daily)]

Hi, Laura. Hi, Paddy Rick here from the Football Daily. The preeminent football based podcast available daily on BBC Sounds should probably be called Footcast. So the countries you still need to find for supporter reporter are as follows. Algeria, Austria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, CAPE Verde, Colombia, Dr. Congo, France, Ghana, Haiti, Ivory Coast, Panama, Turkey and Uruguay. You've got about a week. Good luck. Failure's not an option, but you know

[Chris Mason]

that that's quite a lot still to go then. So get busy newscasters, if you are from any of those countries.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Yes. So obviously it's not about still being in. No, it's about still watching from the countries that we are going to list.

[Chris Mason]

Exactly.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Incidentally, outside the BBC is a glorious church, all souls. And they have hung these flags from their steeple and it's really uplifting when you look out these lovely fluttering flags of all the World cup countries. It's fluttering in the sun. It's very uplifting to see it all and I think there has been a big boost from the football. I know Scotland fans are listening, thinking we, we went out and it's painful

[Chris Mason]

for people to go out, but we got there though.

[Paddy O'Connell]

You did get there. And the tartan army was praised all over the world. It did. And you know, there's been a lot of love for Americans because people who've gone there have found Americans to be very hospitable, lovely people. And I love that we're doing support a reporter and I love that we're reflecting this big moment of uplift and Jude Bellingham story. Hello. I know, 23 years old, this man who's lifted a nation's hopes. Whether or not you're following the football or not, every time we speak about 23 year olds, we're always slagging them off as well. No, you're not. I'm not. But younger. This young man has lifted a nation's hopes.

[Chris Mason]

Marvelous. And Nadine Zohawi came on the selly this morning in an England shirt. I saw that.

[Paddy O'Connell]

He looked great in it.

[Chris Mason]

Well, he's got, he's lucky. He got tickets to the semi final in an auction a couple of months ago. So he's on his way to England. Argentina.

[Paddy O'Connell]

I saw it on the telly and I thought, nadim, wear that all the time.

[Chris Mason]

Just take a tip, you're gonna wear an England shirt next week. Well, there we go. Finland are in the final where you were an England shirt on the telly. Yes. There you are. Got you. But it's goodbye from this Sunday's episode of Newscast. Goodbye, Newscast Newscast from the BBC.

[Podcast Outro Narrator]

Thank you so much for making it to the end of Newscast. You clearly copyright Chris Mason Ooze stamina. Can I gently encourage you to subscribe to us on BBC Sounds? Don't forget, you can email us anytime. It's newscastbc.co.uk and if you would like to join our Discord Discord community to talk about everything newscast related, there is a link in the description of this podcast. And don't be scared. It's super easy to click on it and then get set up. Or you can WhatsApp us on 033-01-239480 and I promise you we read and listen to every single message. Thanks for listening to this podcast by.

[Paddy O'Connell]

All new drinks are now at McDonald's with refreshers like the Strawberry Watermelon Refresher and the Mango Pineapple Refresher with popping Boba to crafted sodas like the Sprite Berry Blast with berry flavors and cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire six? All new drinks are here now at McDonald's.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Refreshers contain caffeine, summer smells like summer road trips, ocean breezes and long evenings under the stars. It's a feeling you want to hold onto. Restore your sense of place with Pura's new summer fragrance collection. We've captured the magic of the season in clean premium scents that transform your home into your favorite destination. Discover the art of scentscaping and bring the summer in. Visit Pura to explore the collection.

[The Zebra Insurance Advertiser]

Nobody does insurance like the Zebra. Because at the Zebra we're focused on finding you savings. Like Andrew hey there. A real human helping find the best price for you. And Tina, she runs partnerships that help

[Podcast Advertiser]

unlock you better rates sending savings to you.

[The Zebra Insurance Advertiser]

Everyone here is focused on one thing, saving you money on car insurance. Find out how much you can save [e-mail] Savings will vary. Not all will save.

[Podcast Advertiser]

The United States is about to mark its 250th anniversary.

[Sir Mel Stride]

And so on the Global Story podcast from the BBC. We're telling surprising tales of American influence on the world stage and in ordinary people's lives all across the globe.

[Paddy O'Connell]

We have this ability to export our story and a lot of people I bought it.

[Chris Mason]

I feel like the American dream is

[Podcast Outro Narrator]

alive, but not well.

[Podcast Advertiser]

From the BBC, it's the United States at 250.

[Sir Mel Stride]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.