Is Being Jewish Unsafe in the UK?

Summary

Newscast (BBC News)

Episode: Is Being Jewish Unsafe in the UK?
Date: May 2, 2026
Hosts: Laura Kuenssberg, Paddy O'Connell
Special Contributor: Judith Moritz

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Episode Overview

In this urgent episode, Newscast shifts focus from the UK’s upcoming “mega May” local elections to a deeper and more troubling story: the surge in antisemitic violence and sentiment in the UK, particularly following the stabbing of two Jewish men in North London. Through a blend of on-the-ground reporting, expert insight, and intimate community voices—including young Jewish people—the episode explores whether it’s becoming unsafe to be Jewish in the UK, the normalization of antisemitism as daily experience, and the intense political debate around how to respond.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: Recent Attacks & Political Fallout

• North London Stabbings: Recent attack in Golders Green, North London, where two Jewish men were stabbed; suspect ESA Suleiman has been charged with attempted murder.
  ([02:42] Paddy O'Connell)
• Highlighting Familiarity: Such attacks have sadly become “familiar now in Britain” rather than isolated events.

  “One of the horrors of this story, Paddy, is it is familiar now in Britain in the 2000s that there is an attack on the Jewish community like this.”
  — Laura Kuenssberg [01:59]

• Political Backlash: Green Party's Zack Polanski criticized police actions on social media and was strongly rebuked, showing how public figures must tread carefully on such topics.
  ([00:32] Paddy O’Connell, [00:56] Laura Kuenssberg)

Patterns of Antisemitic Incidents

• Wider Patterns: Other recent incidents include an arson attack on ambulances, attempted firebombing of synagogues, and daily harassment experienced by Jewish families. ([02:58] Laura Kuenssberg)
• The “Oldest Hatred”: Antisemitism’s persistence and resurgence are linked both to old stereotypes and the intensification of conflict in the Middle East.

  “It’s the oldest form of racism in the world...given a grim new life by the realities of conflict in the Middle East.”
  — Laura Kuenssberg [05:07]

First-Hand Community Experience

Judith Moritz on Everyday (‘Ambient’) Antisemitism

• Rise Since Oct. 7, 2023: Significant increase in incidents after Hamas attacks and corresponding Israeli military action.
• Ambient Antisemitism: Reports of everyday hostility—being spat at, shouted at, or targeted for visible Jewishness (e.g., wearing a kippah).

  “It’s omnidirectional, this. It comes from the left, from the right and it never goes away.”
  — Judith Moritz [05:56]

• Normalisation of Security: Visible security at Jewish sites is now routine, not exceptional.

  “It’s become normal, actually, for members of the Jewish community. That’s what they live with.”
  — Judith Moritz [07:09]

Voices of Young British Jews

At Finchley Progressive Synagogue, teenagers (aged 12–16) describe fears, resilience, and their relationship to British identity:

• Fear but Pride: “At the moment it’s pretty scary with everything so close. But at school, everyone knows I’m Jewish and I don’t receive anything negative... I’m pretty happy about that.”
  — Joshua, 12 [10:49]
• Maturity Brings Awareness: “Now that I’m 16, as opposed to being younger, I now am more aware of what’s going on in the world and it’s definitely, definitely scary.”
  — Teenage interviewee [11:14]
• Reluctance to Display Identity: “I wouldn’t wear my Star of David necklace if I was just walking around... It would be nice to be able to express who I am more.”
  — Teenage interviewee, 13 [13:16]/[13:34]
• Importance of Social Mixing: “If you’re together and you talk to people of different faiths... you can see they’re just like you. That separation is what kind of leads to this sort of antisemitism and racism.”
  — Teenage interviewee [13:53]
• Optimism and Love for London: “I think London’s probably the best city in the world... even though this has happened and you find it a bit scary.”
  — Teenage interviewee [12:14]

Concealing Jewish Identity

• Hiding Symbols: Adult men avoiding wearing kippahs, some women removing Star of David necklaces.

  “One man told us... he has gone and bought a baseball cap this weekend so that when he goes into central London, he’s not displaying that sign.”
  — Judith Moritz [15:07]

• Standardised Security: Whether Orthodox or progressive, all parts of the Jewish community engage with heightened protection measures as standard.
  ([15:44] Judith Moritz)

Some Jews Choosing to Leave the UK

• Emigration Out of Fear: Judith describes speaking to Richard Manville in Manchester, who decided to move to Israel post-Heaton Park attack due to the “drip, drip effect” of increasing incidents.

  “There is some research by the Institute for Jewish Policy Research which suggests that one in five British Jews are currently considering moving to Israel...”
  — Judith Moritz [17:36]

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The Political Dilemma: Protests, Law, and Policing

• Protests as ‘Incubators’: Political debate over whether anti-Israel marches also foster antisemitism, with calls for restrictions.

  “There are elements who have used those marches to express antisemitism. They’ve been talked about as an incubator for Jewish hatred...”
  — Laura Kuenssberg [18:08]

• PM’s Stronger Language: The Prime Minister calls some chants “completely intolerable” and suggests some protests may need to be banned. ([18:08] Laura Kuenssberg, [20:14] Senior Police Official)

• Challenges for Law Enforcement:

  • Existing laws may be insufficient or overly complex; debate about whether to add more or simply enforce strictly.

    “Current laws are inadequate to deal with the public order policing in this sphere...”
    — Judith Moritz [24:31] “Chants like ‘globalise the intifada’... you can draw a direct line between that... and what we’re now seeing in terms of extreme acts of violence. The police need to be tougher on this.”
    — Judith Moritz, paraphrasing Jonathan Hall [25:56]

  • Policing Under Pressure: Met Police Commissioner Mark Rowley warns against public figures undermining police confidence amid terror threats.

    “When somebody who’s eminent steps into operational policing and reinforces criticisms, that will undermine the confidence in my officers...”
    — Mark Rowley [23:39]

• Labour and Antisemitism:

  • Ongoing pain from unresolved issues during Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership resurfaces in light of current events and public debates within the Green Party and beyond. ([21:16] Laura Kuenssberg)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Many Jewish people have said to me, it’s the repeat nature, it’s the cumulative effect... we intend to deal with cumulative effects.”
  — Senior Police Official [19:33]
• "If you’re together and you talk to people of different faiths... There’s no real difference. And that separation is what leads to this sort of antisemitism and racism.”
  — Teenage interviewee [13:53]
• “So it’s that sort of thing, or perhaps the ultra-Orthodox members who... may find themselves perhaps more vulnerable overtly to that.”
  — Judith Moritz [15:01]
• “[Normalisation of security] is not a brand new thing. That’s something that’s been happening, almost like mission creep over... 15, 20 years or more.”
  — Judith Moritz [07:09]
• “There are Jewish people who talk now about leaving the UK... because he cannot cope, he said, with any more antisemitism.”
  — Laura Kuenssberg & Judith Moritz [16:18–16:37]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Recent attacks and political fallout: [00:00] – [02:58]
• Patterns of antisemitic incidents / Familiarity: [02:58] – [05:07]
• Judith Moritz on rise in antisemitism: [05:37] – [08:24]
• Personal stories: children’s normalization of security: [08:24] – [09:34]
• Teen perspectives: [10:44] – [14:09]
• Concealing identity; community’s adaptation: [15:01] – [16:18]
• Emigration/finding safety elsewhere: [16:18] – [18:08]
• Political dimension: protests and government response: [18:08] – [21:16]
• Debate over Labour, Green Party, and antisemitism: [21:16] – [23:23]
• Police response & legal challenges: [23:23] – [25:56]
• Wrap-up and signposting to further coverage: [26:32] onward

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Themes & Tone

The tone is serious, empathetic, and urgent—an honest reckoning with British society’s challenges. The episode moves between hard news reporting, careful analysis, and raw, moving accounts from both adults and youth within the Jewish community. Political and policing complexities are acknowledged without shying away from unresolved pain, nor from the resilience and optimism voiced by younger generations.

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Summary

This episode forcefully brings listeners face-to-face with the question in its title: Is being Jewish unsafe in the UK? Through reportage, direct testimony, and careful dissection of the political and legal context, the answer emerges as complex—and urgently unresolved. The Jewish community’s everyday experiences of fear and resilience, widespread unease about rising hatred, and the inadequacies of both social and legal responses are laid bare. Yet, optimism is not entirely extinguished: the young voices especially display pride, determination, and a belief in the UK’s better possibilities, even as they describe real and present dangers.

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Recommended segment:
Hear directly from Jewish teenagers about their experiences and hopes at [10:44] – [14:09]—a striking window into daily life and enduring spirit amidst adversity.

Transcript

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Patty, we are days away from what I have ridiculously been calling mega May for ages, which is a huge set of elections on Thursday. So you might at this moment in the news cycle expect that all we would be talking about is the particular ward of a particular council where some controversy is meant that a particular councillor might not win his seat. However, due to the terrible events of the week and the attack on Jewish men in a North London suburb of all eyes politically have been on hatred and racism against Jewish people, otherwise known as anti Semitism.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Yes, the stabbing of two men in the street and then words matter. So when a political leader happens to be Zach Polanski reposted on X a remark about the behavior of the police, the suspect and everything else, he had to apologise because stepping into the public arena without briefing yourself at the moment is really not the actions of a leader, says the Prime Minister.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

And says the boss of the Met police, the most senior cop in the country who did a very unusual thing. He put a letter in public to Zach Polanski essentially really slapping him down hard for criticizing the behavior of his officers who, as the Met believe, put themselves into the line of danger to try to stop this attacker who's now facing charges doing any more harm. So we had a terrible event happening in a Jewish community that there was then a terrible political row in the aftermath of that, and we'll get into that, but also hear the first hand experiences of some young Jewish people on this Saturday's edition of. Newscast, Newscast, newscast.

[Judith Moritz]

From the BBC. Humanity's next great voyage begins.

[Mark Rowley]

We are in the midst of a rupture.

[Judith Moritz]

Nostalgia will not bring back the old order.

[Teenage Interviewee]

Six, seven.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Yeah, it's supposed to be me as a doctor.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Daddy has. Has also a special connotation.

[Teenage Interviewee]

Thinking about it like a panto helped.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Do we play music now or what do we do? Hello, it's Paddy in the studio and

[Laura Kuenssberg]

it's Laura in the studio. And in a few minutes we'll speak to Judith Moritz, one of our special correspondents at the BBC. Judith has been busy speaking to Jewish people in the community over a long period of time and also, of course, covered the synagogue attack in Manchester back in the autumn. Because one of the horrors of this story, Paddy, is it is familiar now in Britain in the 2000s that there is an attack on the Jewish community like this. We don't say that that there's to the exclusion of any other community. Many other communities also face discrimination and hatred in many other ways. But the political discussion has burst into life around the specifics of anti Semitism in the United Kingdom because of this particular attack just a couple of days ago.

[Paddy O'Connell]

So it was in North London in a place called Golda's Green, and two Jewish men were stabbed. ESA Suleiman is accused of attacking them and another man who he knew in South London, he's been charged with attempted murder. So then there's the you reported from in Manchester.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

That's right, the Heaton park synagogue attack back in the autumn, which by chance was happening just as the Conservatives were starting their party conference then people were actually killed in that attack at Heaton Park. Since then there's been a whole pattern of attacks. The there was an arson attack recently on ambulances also in North London, also in Golda's Green. There was a firebomb attempted on a synagogue in Kenton, also in North London. And also if you don't know London, if you've never been to Golder's Green, somewhere like Golder's Green or Stamford Hill, you know, you go there and it's very clear that you're in a Jewish community. People have all sorts of other faiths lives there. But it's very clear, just as it is actually around Heaton Park Synagogue in Manchester, that you're in a Jewish community with lots of Orthodox families in the Jewish traditional dress going about their, their business. So these are communities that are very well known and very easily identifiable as places that Jewish families have made their home for decades abroad.

[Paddy O'Connell]

There was an attack at a Jewish holiday on Bondi beach, the famed spot beauty spot in Australia. And what lies at the heart of it is an argument over when people take their hatred for the actions of the Israeli state to a read across to behave against Jews. That's the kind of starting point for the problems because people who feel desperately angry at the actions of Benjamin Netanyahu are many and multiple. And some of them live in Israel, some of them are Jewish people. So the big error, the big crime is the read across to attack Jewish people in Britain, assuming you know what they think, assuming you know their political views, because they are Jewish. And the Jewish people I've spoken to and many other people say they feel this has been the warning lights have been flashing, that there's been a permissive environment for on the streets at these protests and these warnings that Jewish people have been given of this read across have been ignored, just as new slogans have been shouted. And this they say, and I've been at the protests, this has been ignored by the political class and it's the

[Laura Kuenssberg]

oldest form of racism in the world. It's sometimes known as that anti Semitism that has been given a grim new life by the realities of conflict in the Middle East. And one of the reasons, because of this spike in antisemitism, the BBC has been looking at it very carefully. So let's look at. Bring in Judith, who's made a panorama, a whole documentary about what's happened to the Jewish community, which went out and was put together before this latest attack. So, Judith, thank you so much indeed for joining us this afternoon.

[Judith Moritz]

No problem.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Now, you have been talking to Jewish people about this and the rise in anti Semitism over many months. If people haven't seen your panorama, they should definitely go to the iplayer and watch it. But what is at the front of your mind, having spent really some time delving into this issue, I think, you

[Judith Moritz]

know, the fact that you just called it the oldest hatred, that when we made the program, we were looking at all of the ways in which antisemitism resurfaces. It's reborn, it mutates all of the tropes, all of the stereotypes which have always been there, you know, for generations. It doesn't take a lot for them to come back. So, you know, as you say quite rightly, certainly since the 7th of October, 2023, when the situation in the Middle east escalated with the Hamas attack and the Israeli response, there has been a spike, a continued spike, we know, in the number of anti Semitic incidents in the uk. But when we looked at what they consist of, you know, on the streets, in extreme examples that we all know about these attacks you've just listed, but plenty of other examples of what was described to me as ambient antisemitism, people talking about being spat at or shouted at or targeted because they're wearing a skull cap, you know, relatively low level, but very upsetting everyday experiences for plenty of people. That has been at a Peak since October 23rd as well. And the other thing is, you know, we looked online and that is it doesn't take more than, I don't know, a few seconds to pick up when you look for this stuff. An incredible number of these tropes, you know, the old stereotypes, Jews being wealthy, Jews controlling the banks, the media, Holocaust denial, all of that gets wrapped up as well. It's omnidirectional, this. It comes from the left, from the right and it never goes away. But I think what we're looking at at the moment is a real. It is a real moment in Britain, I think, lastly, I should Just say, you know, everybody I've spoken to in the community has said, this is not a surprise to us. We've been watching this happen, certainly over the last couple of years, but actually over a gener security has been tightened. You go into synagogues, you go to Jewish schools. The fencing, the cctv, the security guards, that's not a brand new thing. That's something that's been happening, almost like mission creep over, I would say, you know, 15, 20 years or more. And it's become normal, actually, for members of the Jewish community. That's what they live with.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

And I remember being in the Heaton park area after that attack. Something we talked about actually, didn't we, Paddy, at that time, three little boys who'd come that morning to see what had happened and they were curious in their community. There were police milling around, there were politicians turning up, Kemi Badenoch turned up, Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester, turned up. And I was talking to these three little boys and they were all telling me that every day on their way to school, they got shouted at. Another young Jewish father came and told me about how when he'd taken his kids to the park on several occasions, people had sort of swarmed around the family and been shouting slogans at them. So he'd taken his kids home from the park. So that, you know, Judith Yoko. But that ambient anti Semit. But that is everyday experiences for people trying to just live normal lives for children, for families. This is not just about leaders or buildings or religious leaders. These are British people in this country who are living with regular abuse, some of it dangerous. We see these real dangers on the streets now, much of it unpleasant, but that kind of background noise to Jewish life in the UK has become normalized in many ways. And Patti, you this morning, as you told us, you were at a Jewish event in North London.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Yes, I went behind a very high fence where I went through the gate. I was allowed in just to Judas Point. And based on your reporting from Manchester, I wanted to speak to teenagers between 12 and 16. And one little girl, I think she's 13, told me that what she would really like most is that when you hear something that is rude or borderline anti Semitic in public, you would stand by and say, you can't say that. That's rude. You should apologize. Don't say that. She would like to see more support. All of those teenagers said the events are scary. What we really want you to hear is the determined optimism of these young British people. And we often talk, don't we? About what does a younger newscaster think? So we've just laid out the worst of what's happening, but I hope you'll hear here. These are young British people who are confident about how it could work here and they're proud of their country. They happen to be Jewish and they've got things to say. So here's a little bit of what happened when I spoke to teenagers at Finchley Progressive Synagogue. Right, so here we go round. Can I ask who's the youngest here? You're the youngest. So what ages do we have here?

[Judith Moritz]

12.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Joshua, how is it to be a 12 year old Jewish boy in London? What's it like?

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Personally, I've never had anything anti Semitic aimed directly at me, but at the moment it's pretty scary with everything so close. But at school everyone knows I'm Jewish and I don't receive anything negative coming towards me about that. So I'm pretty happy about that.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Right, and same to you. What do you feel about being a young Londoner teenager in London with happens to have one faith. Some have none, some have others.

[Teenage Interviewee]

Yeah, I think it's definitely scary and I think it's now that I'm 16, as opposed to being younger, I now am more aware of what's going on in the world and it's definitely, definitely scary. I think in terms of optimism, I feel like this stuff has always happened. It's, you know, it's happened since before I was born. It's probably happened before. Many of the people listening have been born.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Is Britain great, do you think?

[Teenage Interviewee]

I think it's. I don't know, maybe not anymore. But I mean, I think that's a difficult question.

[Paddy O'Connell]

That's why I asked it. What do you think as a young Londoner, what do you make of things? At the moment I think I go to a Jewish school, so there's loads

[Laura Kuenssberg]

of security at the gate and stuff

[Paddy O'Connell]

and like it's sort of a shame that there has to be such security there. Do you have any optimism?

[Laura Kuenssberg]

For what?

[Paddy O'Connell]

For growing older, doing your A levels, getting a job, living a lovely life. Yeah, obviously I do. I think I'd like to stay in London.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

I like the city. I love the city.

[Paddy O'Connell]

So an awful attack like this. You still love the city? Yeah, I do. I think it's great.

[Teenage Interviewee]

Yeah. I mean, I agree. I think London's probably the best city in the world. I tell my friends that.

[Paddy O'Connell]

And even this is. Even though this has happened and you find it a bit scary.

[Teenage Interviewee]

Yeah, I think, I think it happens all over the world. And I think it's a shame that it happens all over the world. But it is just one of those things that I've been taught as a young Jewish person that it just. It just happens.

[Paddy O'Connell]

What's the best thing about your life being 12? What's the thing you love doing?

[Judith Moritz]

I'm quite creative, so I like playing hockey and kind of drawing and stuff like that.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Do you mostly think about drawing and hockey rather than the news about what's going wrong?

[Judith Moritz]

I feel like thinking about the news all the time would just make me a bit depressed.

[Paddy O'Connell]

I need to take your tip.

[Judith Moritz]

Yeah. And it would kind of not make me, like, enjoy life as much as usual.

[Paddy O'Connell]

And. Hello, same question to you. You're our only teenage girl in the room. Can you remind me how old you are and what do you think of the events at the moment?

[Judith Moritz]

I'm 13. And yeah, they're pretty scary, especially because they happen so close to where I live. But I haven't experienced it personally ever.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

But I mean, it is quite worrying.

[Teenage Interviewee]

I think one of the things that surprised me most is how sudden it's been. You know, there have been three or four incidents in the space of a few weeks. So that's kind of surprised me. I wouldn't be as obviously Jewish moving around, you know, I wouldn't wear my Star of David necklace if I was just walking around. But apart from that, I wouldn't kind of consciously. I wouldn't like, say I wasn't Jewish, you know.

[Paddy O'Connell]

So. Do you feel that's a shame?

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yes.

[Teenage Interviewee]

It would be nice to be able to express who I am more, but it's not affecting my life in a large way that I'm thinking about all the time.

[Paddy O'Connell]

It seems to be easy for some people to get on, and then there seems to be some people who just can't. Do we know what that's about. Is that anti Semitism?

[Teenage Interviewee]

I think one of the things that's most important, especially that I see with my friends, is that if you're together and you talk to people of different faiths that are different to you, you can see that they're kind of. They're just like you. There's no real difference. And that separation is what kind of leads to this sort of anti Semitism and racism.

[Judith Moritz]

You know, it's really interesting when. And look, it's great, isn't it, to hear Jewish kids saying, we've not experienced this. I think that what they are experiencing, though, and certainly you heard there from the boy who's going to a Jewish school who has to get through that security is this normalization of, even though they may not themselves have been targeted or have experienced, thankfully, any sort of abuse, what they have done is had to navigate perhaps security measures and other protocols that non Jewish children won't have done. Now, that, of course, doesn't apply to everybody. There are plenty of Jewish people in the UK who haven't experienced antisemitism. I think that the more overt you are, the more you display signs of your Jewish faith and culture, perhaps in the area you may be in, the more likely one might think you may be to experience it.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Because you spoke to one adult man, didn't you, who. Who hides something very important about himself.

[Judith Moritz]

So, you know, we have come across, during the making of the Panorama and our other work, we've come across Jewish men saying that they won't go out and about showing their skull cap, the kippah. One man told us that he has gone and bought a baseball cap this weekend so that when he goes into central London, he's not displaying that sign. I've spoken to women who say that they have taken steps to take off their Star of David necklace, although one woman then said, actually, now, I thought she said, I'm going to be proud about this, I'll put it back on and see what happens. So it's that sort of thing, or perhaps the ultra Orthodox members of the community who you will see wearing traditional garb, who may find themselves perhaps more vulnerable overtly to that. But, you know, I think the point about antisemitism and the way it's cutting through, across the whole of the community, from the Orthodox end, through all of the other denominations, and of course, the. The Jewish community is multifaceted through the progressive side as well. Is that everybody in that community engaging in a Jewish space, a synagogue, a school, perhaps going into a kosher shop, they will see the protective measures which are now in place as standard. So that's standard.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

And there are, sadly, Judith, there are Jewish people who talk now about leaving the uk. There are some Jewish people who have left the UK feeling that it can no longer be a safe place and can no longer be their home. Just tell us about one of the people who you've interviewed who is going to leave the country.

[Judith Moritz]

Yeah, we've come across a few, actually. I mean, in fact, there's a chap I spoke to on Thursday, this week, who literally, I went round to his house and the For Sale sign was on the front drive and he was packing up his last bits. Richard Manville who told me in Manchester, he lives down the road from Heaton Park Synagogue and he's leaving the country because he cannot cope, he said, with any more anti Semitism. He's moving to Israel now is a decision, clearly, which didn't happen this week in the wake of Golda's Green. But I asked him what had caused him to put the house on the market and make that choice, and he said it's a drip, drip effect. Since 7-10-23, when he really felt tensions increase and the, the amount of anti Semitism increase, life became harder. He lives down the road from Heaton Park Synagogue. He has friends who were sadly caught up in that attack. It felt very close to home. And I said, you know, there will be people saying to you that it seems extraordinary that you feel safer in Israel with all that's going on there than you do in the uk. And he said, well, it might do, but as a Jewish man, that's how I feel. And I have to tell you, he's not the only member of the Jewish community who said that to us this week. And there is some research by the Institute for Jewish Policy Research which suggests that one in five British Jews are currently considering moving to Israel or talking about it at some point over the next five years.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

The thing that's happened in the last couple of days, though, because of the attack, is it has, has become an intensely political issue. So we've talked about what it's like in the community and it's been really valuable to hear those voices that you spoke to this morning, Paddy, and also Judith, all the conversations that you've had in the last few months. The political question on this issue has been for quite some time, what to do about the marches, what to do about the many thousands of people who've gone into our city centers to demonstrate about their strong feelings about what is happening in Gaza. And how many politicians and many people particularly, but not exclusively in the Jewish community, think that there are elements who have used those marches to express antisemitism. They've been talked about as an incubator for Jewish hatred, rather than just a purely peaceful way of demonstrating against the actions of Netanyahu's government. All of that has led the Prime Minister himself to come out and say, I think with more punch and more clarity than he said before, that in his view, actually what happens at some of those marches is completely intolerable. There are particular things at those matches, marches that are chanted that should lead to be people being prosecuted. And he told our Colleagues at the Today program late yesterday in an interview that was played this morning, that actually, in his view, perhaps some of those marches actually should not be allowed to go ahead.

[Senior Police Official]

I don't want to get involved in operational policing, but I think when you see, when you hear some of those chants, globalise. The intifada would be the one that I would pick out then. Clearly there should be tougher action in relation to that. Now, that's not a discussion that has only been had this week in response to this awful incident. That is a discussion we've been having with the police for some time in relation to the repeated nature of the marches. Many people in the Jewish community have said to me, it's the repeat nature, it's the cumulative effect. Now, I accept that, which is why we intend to deal with cumulative effects,

[Laura Kuenssberg]

because there's been a call, as you know, from your independent advisor on terrorism, Jonathan Hall.

[Senior Police Official]

He says it's time for a moratorium on protests. I think it's time to look across the board at protests and the cumulative effect. I think it's time for, I would say, some people protesting to just reflect on what the Jewish community is going through and the overall impact that this is having. And that's why I say it's really

[Laura Kuenssberg]

interesting to hear that, because after the Heaton park attack, there was a call that weekend from the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary and other political leaders just to say to people, think again about going along to this. We understand if you have deeply held feelings against what Netanyahu's government is doing, but think again. Listen, understand what's happening in the Jewish community and understand that there may be people, as in part of this movement, who are expressing something that is different to what you are expressing. But frankly, this whole thing has been very, very difficult for the government, not least because they're very strong feelings on the left about what Netanyahu does. There are very strong feelings on the left and have been for a long time, about how important it is to recognize Palestine. That's something that this government did. But in terms of handling this issue of how you protest in such a charged environment, it's been very, very difficult for them indeed. There's no question about that, particularly with the Labour Party's recent history of what happened under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, which you know, is now going back a decade. But there's a very painful episod where for a long time, many people in the Labour Party and outside the Labour Party felt very strongly that anti Semitism was quietly tolerated or not dealt with firmly enough. And that people who cared very, very much, very deeply about standing up for Palestinian rights were sometimes willing to look the other way when it came to people expressing frankly, very unsavory and downright offensive views about Jewish people. Now, without relitigating those whole years and years that went on that around that issue under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, that whole clash and quandary for political leaders is right back under our noses again. And it's played out in the last couple of days, not this time between Jeremy Corbyn and his political opponents, but between Keir Sama and Zach Polanski, who now, of course, is the leader of the Greens in England and Wales. And he has been accused particularly vehemently in the last couple of days, but actually also in the last couple of months of allowing in his party a level of debate that does tolerate anti Semitic views. He, of course, denies that. You mentioned the issue of his tweet. He's apologized for resharing that post and we should just read his statement. He says, I accept that social media is not the appropriate channel for doing so. I've invited Mark Rowley to meet with me to discuss the police response. But more broadly, he would always say, as a Jewish leader and as a Jewish man himself, he's got absolutely no tolerance for anti Semitism. But that charge has been laid at his door because there are candidates for the Green Party standing in election who have said horrendous things.

[Paddy O'Connell]

And the Met Police Commissioner, Samart Rowley, you mentioned his letter. Here he is talking about why rushing to go to the public forum and criticize police tactics is a dangerous thing to do. Here's what he said to BBC Breakfast.

[Mark Rowley]

Politics is a matter for politicians, not for me. But when somebody who's eminent steps into operational policing and reinforces criticisms, that will undermine the confidence in my officers to act in the protection of citizens. I need to step forward and say, no, that's not acceptable, because I need my officers to be confident in the most dangerous and difficult circumstances. I had two unharmed officers confronting a man who they were convinced was a terrorist. In their own view, in that moment, they were convinced of that. And even when he was on the ground, he wasn't cooperating. He wasn't releasing the knife. They were concerned because he had a rucksack and a puffer jacket. They were concerned as to whether he may have explosive devices or anything else. And yet despite being armed, they were confronting him.

[Judith Moritz]

I think this intersection of politics and policing is uncomfortable on all fronts. But it's not new, is it? I mean, I'm reminded of that moment in the wake of Heaton park when Sir Mark Rowley stood next to the Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police, Sir Stephen Watson, and said at that point that current laws are inadequate to deal with the public order policing in this sphere. Now, obviously, what happened at Gilders Green this week is not part of public order policing, but the opinions of those two senior officers have been for a long time that they don't have the tools to deal with the issues or many of the issues which are finding at the moment so much prominence. And actually, you know, when I've looked at the legislation, the range of different kinds of legislation they're having to deal with to tackle racial and religious hate crime, Public Order act, the Crime and Disorder act, the Criminal justice act, the Racial and Religious Hatred act, you know, there's a range of it. Now, this is one of the things that ken Madonald, Lord MacDonald, is currently reviewing for the Government. He's looking at whether or not there needs to be more legislation, as these senior officers are saying, or whether it needs to be simplified. And that, by the way, is the view of Jonathan Hall Casey, the independent reviewer of terrorism legislation. He told me for Panorama that we don't need any more laws. That in his mind, this is a really simple thing. He said to me, in fact, the evidence is, is in what you're seeing on the streets at these protests, he said chants like globalize the Intifada. That, he says, is that you can draw a direct line between that, between that sort of hate speech, those placards, those chants, and what we're now seeing in terms of extreme acts of violence. He said it's a very simple matter. The police need to be tougher on this.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Right, well. Well, the Panorama is called why British Jews Are Afraid. It is the work of Judith Moritz, who's been working very hard on a Saturday for us. So thank you very much indeed, Judith.

[Judith Moritz]

It's nice to see you.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Thank you for being with us, Judith. It's great to have you on weekend newscast.

[Judith Moritz]

Good to be here.

[Paddy O'Connell]

In a moment, we will shamelessly plug our hours on Sunday on broadcast, but you are also writing a sort of whispers on the wind piece about the Prime Minister's position.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

A little bit more than whispers on the wind, but yes, I mean, I do think it's important that we say that the elections next Thursday are not just about whether or not Keir Summer is going to get his P45. Right. Let's just put that out there on the record. These elections are about all sorts of important things, not least who collects your bins. However, there is a hugely important political lens for all of this, which is the Prime Minister has been in doo for a very long time. And if these elections are as bad for Labour as most pollsters predict they will be, I. E. Pretty catastrophic, then it is possible, not necessarily likely, but possible, that Paddy, in seven days time is sitting in these seats, you and me will be talking about a challenge to the Prime Minister. What's interesting is that this morning, allies of the Prime Minister have made it very clear to me that he will do, and I quote, no deals, no timetable, no pacts. He will be running the country, concentrating on that instead of going into a membership contest where he'll talk to the. The members for many months on end. So if people try to challenge Keir Starmer, his allies are making it clear this weekend, or trying to make it clear that they would be running into a brick wall.

[Teenage Interviewee]

Right.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Because a challenge is one thing, but there's also another sort of locker room version of this.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yeah.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Where you go to the. The can the. The man or woman who's Prime Minister and say, push off. You can go in nicer way if you give us a date.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Correct. And that's what happened to Theresa May. So after the long list of calamities that befell her administration, in the end she said, okay, well, give me a bit more time. I understand none of you think that I'm allowed to hang around till the general election and, hey, fair enough. But I'll give you a timetable. I'll get certain things done and then I'll agree to go at some point. But Keir Starmer, not in the mood for that at all. And his allies have been very deliberately, by telling me, trying to get that message out there to his party this weekend. There are at the other end of the spectrum, though, all sorts of other wild things being suggested, whether it's in a beautifully constructed colour piece about one of the things that's happening, allegedly, where Street Singh was ambushed by some of his friends and supporters at karaoke singing I Just can't Wait to be King Ho ho ho, how we all laughed. Metaphor alert. But the other thing that was put to me was there'd be some kind of reverse takeover of the Northern Labour Party, of the Southern Labour Party by Angela and Angela Barnum, Angela Rayner and Andy Barnum. I was told they will move as one and there might be a situation where she would become the leader to try and deliver the election manifesto from 2024. But as and when Andy Barnum would find a seat at Westminster and come back to the Commons, carried aloft on the backs of the northern part of the Labour Party, he would then fight the next general election. Now, that was told to me by someone who's plugged in and pretty sensible and serious, dismissed as complete nonsense by somebody in Angela Rayner's camp. But that just gives you a flavor of all the many and varied theories that are doing the rounds right now about what might be happening this, this in, in seven days time.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Well, it's very interesting and also, I know we've got to end the episode, but just a little bit of recent history. When Theresa May did go, yes, and it looked awful for the Conservative Party and I had, I did an interview with a Conservative historian who said she had been the worst Prime Minister of the Conservative Party had ever had. They were in dreadful, dreadful trouble. And then at the next election, what happened, Laura?

[Laura Kuenssberg]

It sprung back to life under a different leader and they got a thumping majority. And after all of that talk of this splintering political system, lo and behold, we had the two party system roaring back with one party getting a thumping majority, which looked very much like a traditional red v blue punch up where one of them had a very healthy majority. And were it not for. For the pandemic, how Boris Johnson ran his life and various other things, well, it looked at that point like history might have been very different. Which is a good reminder of why predicting anything too far in advance in politics, politics is a fool's game, but it keeps a lot of people in work, doesn't it?

[Paddy O'Connell]

So tomorrow you've got every political leader in the country in The World in 60 Minutes. In the world, yes, at 9am on BBC One. And also we're going to hear from a big boss of a big travel firm who accuses some airlines of profiteering with the oil price gyrations.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Well, that is convenient because we've got the Transport Secretary, Heidi Alexander with us for the government. So obviously the scarcity and the expensiveness, loss of jet fuel is something that could cause a lot of problems for newscasters in the summer. So we'll hear tomorrow how the government is hoping to try to make sure that we all have happy landings, but. Yeah, or happy takeoffs. Both.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Well, you certainly want a happy landing, but you want to have a takeoff.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

I think it's time we pushed off.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Yes. Here are the exit doors. So thank you very much for listening and we hope you join us tomorrow.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Bye.

[Judith Moritz]

Newscast Newscast from the BBC.

[Chris Mason]

Thank you so much for making it to the end of Newscast. You clearly copyright Chris Mason Ooze Stamina. Can I gently encourage you to subscribe to us on BBC Sounds? Don't forget, you can email us anytime. It's newscastbc.co.uk and if you would like to join our Discord community to talk about everything newscast related, there is a link in the description of this podcast. And don't be scared. It's super easy to click on it and then get set up. Or you can WhatsApp us on 033-01-239480 and I promise you we read and listen to every single message. Thanks for listening to this podcast by.