Is Trump Interfering In The World Cup?

Summary

Newscast – Is Trump Interfering In The World Cup?

Date: July 6, 2026
Host: Adam Fleming
Guests: Catriona Perry (BBC’s US Correspondent), Dale Johnson (BBC Football Issues Correspondent)
Main Theme:
An examination of allegations that US President Donald Trump inappropriately influenced FIFA’s decision to overturn a red card for Team USA’s star striker during the World Cup, with a wider discussion about sports governance, international politics, and transparency.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Newscast team delves into the breaking story of alleged political interference in the World Cup—a controversy centered around President Donald Trump’s intervention to get a red card suspension overturned for Team USA’s key striker, Florian Balogun. Adam Fleming, Catriona Perry, and football correspondent Dale Johnson dissect the timeline of events, reactions from international football bodies, implications for fairness in sport, and the growing intersection of politics and football on the world stage.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Incident: Balogun’s Red Card and FIFA’s Decision

• [03:00] Dale Johnson: Explains how Team USA’s top striker Florian Balogun received a red card after a video review for a nasty foul, which usually mandates an automatic suspension for the next match.
• [04:11] Dale Johnson: Outlines the unprecedented twist: FIFA suddenly announced Balogun’s ban would be “suspended” on probation, allowing him to play against Belgium.

Key Insight:
This kind of suspension is rare in high-profile tournaments; normal disciplinary guidelines would require at least a two-game ban.

2. Trump’s Acknowledgment and the Fallout

• [04:18] Catriona Perry: Reports that speculation of Trump’s involvement began over the weekend, but was confirmed by Trump himself in the Oval Office.
• [05:04] Donald Trump (clip):

  “He didn’t do anything wrong. ... He’s our best player ... I didn’t know what [a red card] meant ... that means he can’t play in the next game ... That’s very unfair ... So, yes, I asked for a review by FIFA.”
  (05:04)

Memorable Moment:
Trump openly admits to phoning FIFA President Gianni Infantino, rationalizing his request as a matter of fairness for the US team.

• [05:55] Adam Fleming: Observes Trump learning the rules of football in real time, highlighting the President’s unfamiliarity with standard punishments for red cards.

3. FIFA’s Rationale and Precedent

• [06:15] Dale Johnson: Details on FIFA’s guidelines and the seldom-invoked “Clause 27,” allowing discretionary suspension of penalties.

  “Buried away in the actual FIFA disciplinary code ... [is] a clause which ... gives them the right to change things as they want. ... It does feel as though it has been chosen for a specific case which has left a pretty bad taste in the mouth of the general football fan.”
  (06:15)

Key Insight:
The use of discretionary powers without transparent reasoning leaves the process open to suspicion, especially with high-profile political pressure.

4. International Reactions and Appeals

• [07:17] Adam Fleming & Dale Johnson: Discuss the backlash from the Belgian FA, who called the decision “April Fool’s Day” and have demanded written reasons from FIFA, but FIFA’s procedural rules left their appeal inadmissible.
• [08:43] Adam Fleming: Notes that UK parliamentarians and other countries are demanding similar reconsiderations for their own players, further complicating the matter.

Quote (Belgian FA Statement excerpt, paraphrased):
“…fighting in defense of the fundamental principle of ethics, fair competition and the interests of football as a whole.” (07:22)

5. Trump, Infantino, and the Cozy Relationship

• [09:11] Catriona Perry:

  “Lots of praise heaped by Donald Trump on Gianni Infantino ... We see Infantino with Trump at many events. ... Both of them speaking to this really close relationship.”
  (09:11)

• Both Trump and Infantino acknowledge frequent communication, but FIFA downplays the possibility that the call influenced the decision, despite social media statements.

Key Point:
Trump’s willingness to use his position (and relationships with sports officials) to benefit national interests raises concerns about rules applying, or not applying, to powerful figures.

6. Pandora’s Box: Precedent and Transparency Concerns

• [10:21] Adam Fleming & Dale Johnson:
  Other teams (France, England) now cite the precedent, with coaches openly questioning whether their own red/yellow cards should be reviewed, given the sudden flexibility.
• [11:38] Adam Fleming: Points out FIFA’s lack of transparent reasoning:

  “At no stage has FIFA given any actual justification... for why Balogun will not be banned.”
  (10:29–11:38)

Key Insight:
By “opening Pandora’s box,” FIFA may face a wave of pressure to revisit and potentially overturn other disciplinary decisions, potentially undermining tournament integrity.

7. Domestic Political Overtones

• [11:57] Catriona Perry: Observes that Trump’s comments echoed his usual allegations of “rigged” outcomes, sowing public doubt about fairness—linking his complaints about football to his past claims of electoral rigging.
• [12:55] Adam Fleming & Panel: Light moment as Trump claims to have played golf with England’s Harry Kane, illustrating Trump’s personality-driven approach to sports relationships.

8. Broader Context: Americana, Politics, and the World Cup

• The episode also reflects on the wider context of American culture, state fairs, and political partisanship witnessed by the hosts during Fourth of July festivities in Washington, DC (from 14:54–18:07).

9. International Diplomacy Over Football

• [18:07] Adam Fleming: Reveals breaking news that Britain’s Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary intervened to keep England’s match timing unchanged, showing how international football has become a stage for diplomatic maneuvering.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Donald Trump ([05:04]):

  “He didn’t do anything wrong. … When they take your best player … and they say you can’t play, that’s very unfair. … So, yes, I asked for a review by FIFA. I spoke to a man who’s highly respected and … whose level of respect has gone up tenfold.”

• Dale Johnson ([06:15]):

  “The FIFA disciplinary code … has a clause which basically gives them the right to change things as they want. … It has been chosen for a specific case which has left a pretty bad taste in the mouth of the general football fan…”

• Catriona Perry ([09:11]):

  “Lots of praise heaped by Donald Trump on Gianni Infantino … Both of them speaking to this really close relationship.”

• Dale Johnson ([10:29]):

  “FIFA has created a precedent which never existed before, whereby people can question the disciplinary measures … You can totally see why we’re in this situation where people are making assumptions about what’s happened.”

• Catriona Perry ([11:57]):

  “…If Belgium had won without our player on the pitch, then I’d be saying this was rigged, just like the 2020 election. So he’s already stitching that bit of doubt over the result of this game.”

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Important Timestamps

• 03:00 – Backstory of the red card incident (Dale Johnson)
• 04:18 – Emergence of Trump’s involvement (Catriona Perry)
• 05:04 – Trump’s own statement about the intervention
• 06:15 – FIFA’s process and the controversial suspension
• 07:17 – Belgian FA’s reaction and procedural loopholes
• 08:43 – UK Parliament involvement; wider precedent
• 09:11 – Trump-Infantino relationship and statements
• 10:21 – Other nations considering appeals; Pandora’s box argument
• 11:38 – FIFA’s lack of clear justification
• 11:57 – Political undertones and “rigged” rhetoric

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Tone & Style

The discussion is brisk, insightful, and occasionally wry, with the panel maintaining a balance between in-depth analysis and conversational, accessible commentary. The guests employ a blend of journalistic skepticism and humor, especially when referencing Trump’s lack of football knowledge and the surreal nature of world leaders influencing match outcomes.

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Conclusion: Key Takeaways

• President Trump directly intervened with FIFA to overturn a disciplinary suspension for a key US player, an admission both he and FIFA’s president publicly acknowledged.
• FIFA’s use of a rarely-invoked discretionary clause has created an unprecedented situation, sparking outrage and confusion among football authorities and fans worldwide.
• The lack of transparent reasoning from FIFA—and the openly friendly relationship between Trump and Infantino—raises questions about governance, fairness, and the influence of politics on global sport.
• By accommodating Trump’s request, FIFA may have inadvertently undermined its own procedures, setting a dangerous precedent for future tournaments.

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For anyone who hasn’t listened:
This episode is a must-hear for its coverage of a developing sports-political scandal, its revealing look at the mechanisms and vulnerabilities of international sporting governance, and its unique mix of serious analysis and light, human moments that bring the story to life.

Transcript

[Adam Fleming]

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.

[Asma Khalid]

When you hear the phrase Made in China, what do you think? I'm Tristan Redman. And I'm Asma Khalid. And together we host the Global Story podcast from the BBC. And today on our show, we look at the origins and evolution of Made in China because it actually wasn't inevitable.

[Catriona Perry]

What we're talking about is the world's largest communist nation is at the beating

[Asma Khalid]

heart of the capitalist system. For more, listen to the global story

[Adam Fleming]

on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello. No, I did not go to Taylor Swift's wedding, if you were wondering. Just to answer Paddy, Laura and Henry's query from the weekend, although I was in the United States and I'd gone to visit some friends and. And then when I was booking the trip, I thought, well, I may as well stay and witness the Fourth of July. And it's the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, so what a Fourth of July to be in America for. And then I ended up in Washington, D.C. so had a ringside seat to that big, momentous moment in American history, which, because of the political climate in America now, was a very contested moment. So actually, it's quite a relief to be back here in the newscast studio.

[Asma Khalid]

Newscast, newscast from the BBC.

[Adam Fleming]

I will resign as leader of the Labour Party.

[Asma Khalid]

And what will you do?

[Catriona Perry]

Stare at a wall?

[Asma Khalid]

Humanity's next great voyage begins.

[Adam Fleming]

You know, I like my buses. I'll come on to them.

[Donald Trump]

It's supposed to be me as a doctor.

[Asma Khalid]

Ooh la la.

[Dale Johnson]

Thinking about it like a panter helped.

[Adam Fleming]

Do we play music now or what do we do? Hello, it's Adam back in the newscast studio. And obviously the big football story on Monday morning was England's sensational victory against Mexico, which I think we will be talking about for decades to come. But by Monday afternoon, when we're recording this episode of newscast at about 5pm, the big football story is the accusations of Donald Trump interfering over that red card for Team USA's star striker, which he asked the FIFA president, Gianni Infantino to overturn. And then FIFA did suspend the red card, so that means he will be able to play in Team USA's crucial match against Belgium, which is happening on Monday night. So there's lots to unpick here. And to help us out, we're joined from Washington, as always, by Catriona Perry. Hi, Catriona.

[Catriona Perry]

Hello, Adam. Another quiet day here?

[Adam Fleming]

Well, yes, and I'll give you my review of my recent trip to Washington D.C. shortly. And also on the line, I think, making his first ever appearance on newscast is Dale Johnson, who is the football issues correspondent at the BBC. Hello, Dale.

[Dale Johnson]

Hi there. Yes, it is, it is my, it's my debut, as you say, in the football world.

[Adam Fleming]

I was thinking, should I say that? But then I thought it was so much more convincing from you than it will from me. Anyway, so. Right, Dale, give us the backstory then just take us back to the actual incident that triggered all of this.

[Dale Johnson]

Well, yeah, I mean, if we go back to the start, how long have we got, really? It's a crazy situation. It's a crazy situation, really. You have the situation where Florian Bolligan, the best player for the United States, their leading goal scorer, who scored three goals in the tournament, he goes into a challenge with a Bosnia player and catches the Bosnia player on the ankle in quite a nasty type of way. And this decision is sent to the video assistant referee to review it. The referee is then sent to the monitor to look at it and he decides that it should be a red card. Now, with a red card, what normally happens is. Well, what always happens, let's be honest, is, is that it's an automatic one game suspension and that player will miss the next game for their team, which in this case the United States will be the match against Belgium on Monday. Now, the twist to this came yesterday when totally unexpectedly, completely out of the blue, FIFA announced that Baligan would not serve a ban. It would be suspended for, on probation essentially for a period of one year, and he would be able to play in this game against Belgium for the

[Adam Fleming]

host country and Katrina. When did it start to emerge that Donald Trump may have been involved in this?

[Catriona Perry]

Over the weekend, really? And then President Trump himself confirmed it in lengthy remarks in the Oval Office this morning because it started as kind of speculative reporting in various outlets over the weekend. And it sort of seemed, well, that surely can't be happening. That level of putting your hands in pies that maybe they don't belong in. And then the President saying, yeah, I called Gianni Infantino about this. I told him how unfair it was. Then he riffed on how he thought it wasn't a foul to start with, saying, and I'm very good at these things, I know these things. And then by the end of those remarks, he was at a place where he was saying, he in fact, suggesting the whole thing could have been rigged.

[Adam Fleming]

And this is how that sounded.

[Donald Trump]

He didn't do anything wrong. And he's our best player or one of our Best players, a very vital player. And he gave him a red card. I didn't know what that meant. I didn't think it meant much. Then I started hearing that that means he can't play in the next game, at least in the game. I said, boy, that's a big, you know, if it happened to another player, it would have been unfair. But when they take your best player, or just about, they have some great players, but. And they say you can't play, that's very unfair. That's, you know, it's one thing to penalize somebody for the game, but how do you penalize them for a game that hasn't been played yet? It's very unfair. You can't do that. So, yes, I asked for a review by FIFA. I spoke to a man who's highly respected and by the way, whose level of respect has gone up tenfold.

[Adam Fleming]

Donald Trump, like lots of Americans, learning in real time how football works or how soccer works. Dale, I mean, Donald Trump referred to this review process in FIFA and it's true to say they do have a process for reviewing things like this. They just tend not to use that process very much. And the outcome doesn't often go this way in such a high profile way.

[Dale Johnson]

Well, it certainly doesn't at a tournament like the World Cup. The FIFA disciplinary code has a list of sanctions depending on what a player has done. Now, in this case, it was a serious foul play red card. And the sanction guideline there says this is a suspension of at least two matches. So Balogun should have missed this game against Belgium. And one more now buried away in the actual FIFA disciplinary code. Clause 27. And you get this with sporting bodies generally. There's a clause which basically gives them the right to change things as they want. It says that they can suspend any disciplinary measure if they so wish for any reason. And this is what they've chose to activate in this case. But it does feel as though it has been chosen for a specific case which has left a pretty bad taste in the mouth of the general football fan who's been watching on this World cup and all the controversies there's been in the lead up to it. And that's what we're seeing right now.

[Adam Fleming]

And it's left a particularly bad taste in the boss of the Belgian team.

[Dale Johnson]

Well, not just the boss of the Belgian team. The boss of the Belgian team said that this is basically is this April Fool's Day. And if I just read one couple of snippets from the Belgian FA statement that they released this afternoon. It was a very strong statement. They basically have said that they wrote to FIFA asking for the written reasons why this decision was taken. FIFA responded and says, well, this email constitutes an appeal, but you can't appeal unless you have the written reasons. So Belgium are basically saying FIFA have made their appeal inadmissible without making an appeal, which is just incredible, really. But yeah, like I say, I was going to say what Belgium said. They just said that they're going to continue to fight in the coming hours, days and months in defense of the fundamental principle of ethics, fair competition and the interests of football as a whole. So I think if FIFA thought that this was going to just happen, carry on, and the USA Belgium game would happen and everyone forget about it, I think that's unlikely to be the case. UEFA got involved as well. The parliament in the UK has got involved because of Joao Quanza's red card against Mexico. It's just an incredible situation. It's unprecedented in tournament football. It a situation like this for a player not to serve at least a one game suspension.

[Adam Fleming]

Yeah. And that was a reference to this letter that's been sent by the Labour MP Noah Law to FIFA where he says, oh, maybe that you should review Jarell Quansa's red card in the Mexico match on Sunday night. So it's now requests coming in from all over the place to do this similar sort of thing. Katrina is interesting listening to that, that Donald Trump clip there. Cause it's a reminder that he and Gianni Infantino and he and this World cup in fact have quite a close connection.

[Catriona Perry]

Indeed they do. I mean, lots of praise heaped by Donald Trump on Gianni Infantino this morning and for the past several years. I mean, we see Infantino with Trump at many events. He's been in the Oval Office lots. The World cup trophy itself was sitting there for quite a while. And interestingly, in the statement that we had from FIFA as well today from Gianni Infantino, he said, yes, I regularly discuss matters related to the FIFA World cup with the President and I did receive a call from President Trump about this. So both of them speaking to this really close relationship. But much of the sort of talking points here in the US today are does Donald Trump decide that rules don't apply to him? Whether that's the rules based world order and all the geopolitical stuff that we often are talking about on this podcast. And does it go as far as soccer or football matters as well here in the World Cup? President Trump's so proud as he says frequently that the US Is one of the co hosts, hosts of this World cup. And lauding again today that they are the only ones left in the competition of the three hosts.

[Adam Fleming]

And Dale, you can just see why this opens up a whole can of worms because I'm now seeing reports that, that France are going to ask for similar treatment for one of their players.

[Dale Johnson]

Well, yes, I mean, Thomas Tuchel actually referred to Michael Alise, who is the French player that you mentioned, who got a yellow card, which really should not have been a yellow card. Thomas Tuchel said. So what about Declan Rice's yellow card in the foot game against Mexico? Can I ask that to get changed? Can Michael Alicia to get his yellow card to get changed. But this applies to every single card that happens. Now, FIFA has created a precedent which never existed before, whereby people can question the disciplinary measures that their team has faced and their players have faced. Then why can't this be come up again time and time again? And people will quite rightly ask questions. Now, I think one of the fascinating things about this is at no stage is FIFA given any actual justification or, or reasoning for why Balagan will not be banned. Yes, it's mentioned this article 27 that I referenced, but it has not said the actual reason why he will not be banned. And that's just left a real vacuum of understanding. And it's totally, you can totally see why we're in this situation where people are making assumptions about what's happened in this current situation.

[Adam Fleming]

And Katrina, you referred to Gianni Infantino's statement and actually he's posted quite a, quite a lengthy statement on social media, basically saying that he's following the rules and it's fine for people to give him a ring because the ring from the head of state or head of government isn't what decides the process.

[Catriona Perry]

Yeah, he says that in that statement. I regularly get calls, not just from President Trump, from many other heads of state. But, you know, it does open that Pandora box now, doesn't it? Of like every other decision. It also puts a giant question mark over this tournament now and President Trump, the last few things he said in the Oval Office this morning were basically, if Belgium had won without our player on the pitch, then I'd be saying this was rigged, just like the 2020 election. So he's already stitching that bit of doubt over the result of this game. Later on, he was also asked, well, what if the Belgian Prime Minister rings you? What are you going to say to him? He said, oh, he hasn't phoned me yet. But, you know, he's a great guy and I'll talk to him if he rings, you know. But like, I just think that wasn't a red card and it wasn't a foul. Having said, he didn't know what a red card was as he played in the, in the clip earlier then going on to sort of say that he's the arbitrator of such matters.

[Adam Fleming]

And Dale, and one of the other things that Donald Trump said in that press conference was that he'd played golf with Harry Kane. And that was in the context of him saying, I didn't know who any of the England players were when they were up against Mexico on Sunday night, but I know Harry Kane cause I played golf with him. Do we know how that might have come about?

[Dale Johnson]

We have no idea. That was a bolt from the blue. That was a bolt from the blue. You can only imagine maybe Harry Kane was up at the golf course up in Scotland or something like that and ended up playing golf with Donald Trump. But yeah, that was total bolt out of the blue when Donald Trump started talking about Mexico and England and England's victory last night and Katrina.

[Adam Fleming]

Not to make you the golf issues correspondent, but Donald Trump plays a lot of golf in a lot of different formats, which could involve a lot of people, people being kind of around the, around the edges.

[Catriona Perry]

That's it. He was playing golf even yesterday, although he was up, of course, very, very late on Saturday night with the July 4th celebration that got very delayed. He plays golf frequently. He plays golf with some of the best golfers in the world, as well as other sports celebrities and, you know, singers, actors, all kinds of things. And also some of his clubs are obviously big clubs, big membership. So it's quite possible that you could be there at the same time the President is and maybe encounter them that way. But we do have our very best assets here at the BBC on the case of finding out when that golf, that two ball, four ball, whatever it was with Harry Kane and President Trump took place.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah.

[Adam Fleming]

Dale, good luck going through the videos of every golf match that Donald Trump has ever played in public trying to spot Harry Kane, although he'd be quite an easy person to spot.

[Dale Johnson]

I think we can guarantee that the first press conference that Harry Kane takes part in this tournament, he will be asked, where did you play golf with Donald Trump.

[Adam Fleming]

Yes. Which then risks another diplomatic incident. But let's see now, Dale, I apologize for this bit because I'm going to go literally inside the beltway with Katrina, because Katrina I wanted to Give you my review of the National State Fair.

[Catriona Perry]

Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, I was there too. So, yeah, give me your lowdown.

[Adam Fleming]

So just for newscasters, the reason I was off last week was I was visiting some friends in America and ended up going to Washington D.C. and I thought I may as well stay for a bit longer to see the Fourth of July play out. And yeah, because the fireworks was so late, we kind of missed the fireworks. But I did go to this National State Fair, which is on the National Mall down by the, the Washington Monument. And it's based on like that classic American state fair, isn't it, Katrina, where every state has one on a big showground where you go in and you see sort of the best of that state on display. But the idea of this is it's the best of every state on display. Although it hasn't necessarily worked out quite like that.

[Catriona Perry]

Yeah, exactly. State fairs, I mean, we have them in Ireland. I think you have them in the UK as well. County fairs, you know, where you have, here's the largest aubergine or pumpkin pie or whatever. And you go around eating fried food and trying to throw rings around sticks to win a huge teddy bear or whatever. And people would be in traditional costume and the traditional foods and they're really gorgeous. I've been to many of these in the US and you do get a real sense of what a place is about. And you know us as journalists, you're always in a quest to find real people aren't beyond the experts. And so state fairs are a fabulous place to talk to people like that, especially ahead of elections. One of the most famous one would be the Iowa State Fair. And if you intend running for president, you really have to show your face at the Iowa State Fair for a couple of years, you know. And so I went to the Iowa tent. I don't know if you went there, Adam, but all that was in the Iowa tent was a giant sort of pop up cardboard display display thing like you might find at a conference center. And that was really what was in most. Yes, the little huts. You know, some of them had slight interactive elements, but very limited and none of the sort of traditional, very unhealthy, but very delicious food to be found either.

[Adam Fleming]

Dale, I'm going to let you go because this is now just getting far too. This is like hearing about other people's holidays, which is the worst thing ever. But thank you very much for bringing us all the football issues today.

[Catriona Perry]

Deep right. Mars Virus, anyone? Yeah, thanks, Dale.

[Dale Johnson]

Thanks a lot. Cheers.

[Adam Fleming]

And then Katrina, my Final point I was going to make about the state fair is I think I spent longer in the queue to get in. Sorry, the line to get in than I did in the actual state fair. It opens with this, America's Innovations tent, which is meant to be about all America's great technology. And there's not a lot in there. It was TikTok X NASA SAP, the company that do our expenses, and Truth Social. There was a Truth Social stall as the best of American technology.

[Catriona Perry]

Yeah. And another one of those pavilions had, you know, a few motorbikes and stuff in it as well. It was really curious and really partisan as well. I mean, there was an area where you could park your boogies up if you wanted to, you know, keep your boogie out of the way. And that was sponsored by Trump accounts and you could get a free phone charger that was sponsored by Trump accounts. So everything was very sort of partisan rather than non partisan, which is perhaps what people would have expected for something celebrating America and America's birthday.

[Adam Fleming]

Oh, and Katrina, just a little bit of breaking football news just as we wrap up our conversation. This is from Chris Mason. He says the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary were involved in arguing for the kickoff time for this morning's England match not to be moved earlier, as mooted by FIFA in the days before the game. So Keir Starmer instructed officials to make the case, backed by the FA in the uk, that the match should remain in its original time slot. And the Foreign Secretary of Cooper spoke to the British Ambassador to Mexico to ask that British diplomats in the country made representations that there was no change to the kickoff time so that traveling England fans did not miss the match. So actually, it sounds like there's been quite a lot of international diplomacy going on in the last few days around the the World Cup.

[Donald Trump]

Right.

[Catriona Perry]

I guess if you're listening in England, it's the result that counts at this point, isn't it?

[Adam Fleming]

Exactly. I know the faffing about the time seems like all ancient history. Katrina, lovely to catch up and hopefully see you in person in Washington next time.

[Catriona Perry]

Yes, absolutely. Okay. But I will see you in person at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, of course,

[Adam Fleming]

which is very soon. So. Yeah, thanks for coming over for that too.

[Catriona Perry]

Talk soon.

[Asma Khalid]

The United States is about to mark its 250th anniversary.

[Dale Johnson]

And so on the Global Story podcast from the BBC, we're telling surprising tales of American influence on the world stage and in ordinary people's lives all across the globe.

[Adam Fleming]

We have this ability to export our story and a lot of people have bought it. I feel like the American dream is alive, but not well.

[Asma Khalid]

From the BBC, it's the United States at 2:50 listen on BBC.com or wherever

[Dale Johnson]

you get your podcasts.

[Adam Fleming]

Right, let's do another installment of Supporter Reporter where we try to find a newscaster in every country that is represented at the World Cup. And we've got a message from Lindsay in Spain who says, hi newscast team. I'm a Scot who moved to Madrid last year and spent every morning commute enjoying your podcast to keep up to speed on news and politics back home. Happy to be your supporter reporter for Spain with an eight year old son. We're enjoying supporting Scotland, England, the usa, Spain and Portugal in that order. And I look forward to seeing you guys at the fringe. Thank you very much Lindsay. I look forward to seeing our supporter reporter for Spain at the Edinburgh fringe in August. I've got a message from David in Jordan who says hello newscast. I've been living in Amman, Jordan for the last five years. I'm British, originally from Lancashire and have been teaching science in Jordan. Despite their poor results, Al Nashama, roughly translated as the chivalrous ones, gave this overlooked country a huge amount of national pride. Thousands of people flooded the ancient amphitheaters to watch on big screens and the bars and cafes were fully booked and overflowing. We had late starts for work to accommodate the early kickoff times. Sound familiar? And my Jordanian colleagues regularly reminded us that Jordan were the only team to score against Argentina in the group stage. So David, congratulations to the chivalrous ones and to you for being our supporter reporter from Jordan. And we've still got plenty of countries that have vacancies, so if you live in any of them, get in touch. Newscastbc.co.uk or WhatsApp us on 033-01-239480 and irrespective of the football, it's just great to hear where newscasters are and the interesting things that you do in your life. Now talking about people traveling and being in different countries, Prince Harry is visiting the UK this week and there's been a bit of confusion about where he's actually going to be lodging in the London part of his trip. And the person who helped me try to untangle that question because it's got implications for what's going on in the royal family, is the BBC's senior royal correspondent, Daniela Ralph. Hello Daniela.

[Asma Khalid]

Hi Adam.

[Adam Fleming]

And you're not stood outside a palace for once.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm in the air conditioned comfort of the newscast studio.

[Adam Fleming]

Barely air conditioned. Right. Talking about travel plans. So Prince Harry, he's doing some solo travel this time. He's not bringing his family here.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah, that's right. He is due to start doing a series of public engagements tomorrow. He's spending a couple of days in London. He's then going to Birmingham and Warwickshire for three days to do charity focused engagements based around the kind of projects that he continued to support even when he moved to California. The original plan was that Megan, his wife and their two children, Archie and Lilibet would come too. That is now off the table. He's coming on his own to do those public engagements because of the row over whether he should have taxpayer funded police protection that hasn't been offered. He and his security team feel that it would not be safe to have Megan and the kids in the London bit of the visit. They may come privately to the UK to be with him when he moves north to the Midlands to. But they will not be in London in the next couple of days, we're told.

[Adam Fleming]

So the earlier reporting around this trip and it was still being planned. It was. Some of the papers and some of the royal commentators were billing this as a big family reconciliation. Doesn't look like that.

[Asma Khalid]

No, no. I mean that is what it was supposed to be. I mean the original planning notes and details we had about what would be happening had Harry and Meghan doing a number of engagements together.

[Adam Fleming]

Realized that I thought it'd never been really confirmed what it was going to be.

[Asma Khalid]

So we get given these operational notes which are effectively the logistics of each thing that Prince Harry was going to be doing. And on a couple of those it was planned for Meghan to be alongside him. They were quite managed moments, so not particularly public facing. We're not talking about walkabouts through London or Birmingham. They were going to events related to charities, one of which was the Countdown to the Invictus Games, where the year Countdown to the Invictus Games, which Harry had been so involved in in terms of setting up. So she was scheduled, she was on the list. We had all the notes, but that was then taken away and removed once there had been a firm decision saying that he wasn't going to get taxpayer funded police protection.

[Adam Fleming]

No, we've all had issues with our holiday accommodation at various times in our life, but Prince Harry had kind of massive version of that this morning on Monday.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah, it was a real to and fro, he says, she says for an hour or so. First thing this morning. Initially the first message came through from Prince Harry's official spokesperson letting the media know that he would be coming to London and would be staying in Royal accommodation at Buckingham Palace. Very clear, quite straightforward, presented as a fact. All sorted, Nothing to see here. He'll be at the Palace.

[Adam Fleming]

And that's an. That's a reliable spokesperson. It's not like a friend of somebody or somebody.

[Asma Khalid]

No, we are talking about the person that deals with Prince Harry every day, is a person based in the uk, is a. Is. Is reliable in terms of information about him and what their plans are. So a trusted source. Within literally minutes, Buckingham palace were in touch to say, actually, that's not the case. Hang on here a minute. He is not staying with us. We had initially offered for him to stay at Buckingham palace during the London part of his visit, but he was given a deadline. He did not come back to confirm that he would be able to stay with us in that deadline. There was then a little bit of two and fro over the weekend of him saying, yes, no, I don't need it, actually, yes, I do. By which point Buckingham palace said, well, we just can't accommodate this. You can't just have someone, in their view, staying in the palace, you need staff. There's some logistics around that. We haven't had enough time to put all of that into place, therefore he can't stay here.

[Adam Fleming]

There are lots of implications of that. Not then. The first one I'm picking up on is when you said it was minutes that it took Buckingham palace to respond. Because actually, my experience of the Royal Family as an institution dealing with the media is sometimes it can take weeks for them to respond to something and they get in trouble for being so slow or they're criticized in the public for being so slow. So to do something that. That responsive means that they really wanted to clear it up.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah. And I think what happened was when we had the information from Prince Harry's official spokesperson, we all put it out on our, you know, there were push alerts on the news app, so it was written up online. You know, it was out on our rolling news channels and radio. And I think Bucky and Palace saw it and were like, hang on, this isn't right. This needs, you know, you need to check with us because you're not getting reliable information. So for a period of time, we were in a situation where we had Prince Harry's official spokesperson saying one thing and Buckingham palace saying completely the opposite. And it was very unclear, as it often can be, quite who, who was telling the truth or who had clarity on exactly what was Planned, who was right, who was right or had, you know, was. Were there some bad communications going on here in terms of who knew what? So eventually, after a while, it became clear that actually Bucky and Palace were right, as you would expect, seeing they are the. They are the palace.

[Adam Fleming]

And the code for the little block box.

[Asma Khalid]

Exactly. That Prince Harry would not be staying there because, as they said, he had not met the deadline for accepting the invitation.

[Adam Fleming]

I mean, it's hard to know the answer to this, but what do you think this reveals it all onto? Just a bit of chaos?

[Asma Khalid]

I think it reveals how deep the fractures still are in terms of the relationship between Prince Harry and the Royal Family and just the levels of mistrust there still are on either side and how everybody slightly dances around each other. The level of direct conversations between teams, what Prince Harry is saying to his father or what the level of communication is there is really difficult to get a grip on because we've talked about it before in here. This isn't a normal family. This isn't, you know, me messaging someone, so can I pop over on Saturday afternoon for a cup of tea and a chat, or putting an invitation out to somebody?

[Adam Fleming]

There's protocol.

[Asma Khalid]

There's protocol, there's layers, there's deadlines about accepting invitations. And the added aggravating factor here as well is that tomorrow Prince Harry we will hear publicly the ruling around Prince Harry's legal action against Associated Newspapers. And I think there was a little bit of discomfort from Buckingham palace that he could be staying in a royal palace while maybe giving a statement with his view on how that has played

[Adam Fleming]

out and with all of us camped outside waiting for him.

[Asma Khalid]

And I just think. I mean, that wasn't the only reason, but that's been an aggravating factor in all of this, in terms of him staying at Buckingham Palace.

[Adam Fleming]

I'll get you to recap the court case in a second. But I suppose for me observing this from outside, where I'm left is that it's kind of embarrassing for Harry because it was made so clear by his team what his plans were and then so quickly kiboshed by Buckingham Palace. That leaves him a bit embarrassed, I think, looking a bit embarrassed.

[Asma Khalid]

I think you could see it as being slightly embarrassing for both sides because on one hand, exactly as you say, you know, Prince Harry's team have said something on the record very firmly, this is where he's staying, this is where he's going to be, and have then had to row back in the face of the palace saying, hang on a minute and say, oh, actually, no, we got that wrong. That's not quite how it's been, how it's played out. They described it as the invitation being withdrawn and saying that they're very disappointed about that. Bucky and palace say, well, they didn't accept it in the first place. It's not that it's withdrawn. And I think, you know, talking to a few people around today, there are those that feel, you know, sad for Prince Harry or feel it's a bit embarrassing for his team that they've had to get involved in a bit of a mess. Another side saying, well, can't Buckingham palace just worked out how much staff do they need, how many. What sort of logistics are required to have one person?

[Adam Fleming]

It's not a state banquet.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah. Staying in a palace, probably just for the one night, really. So, as ever, it's difficult to get to the bottom of. It's messy, it's complicated. Complicated. And it plays in to that story that's been going on for more than six years now of real family friction, tension and rift.

[Adam Fleming]

And in terms of what Harry's itinerary is, was he ever going to see his brother?

[Asma Khalid]

Oh, no.

[Donald Trump]

Right.

[Asma Khalid]

No. So that wasn't on the schedule at all. In fact, there was no official royal reunion or meeting on the schedule. I think there was a strong hope, particularly if he was here with Megan and the children, that time would be made to see the King. We know that the King would like to see his grandchildren who he hasn't seen in person in four years. And I think the idea that they would come here and not see the King, pretty unthinkable, that could still happen. I have to say that's not completely off the table. What is off the table is any kind of meeting with Prince William. The divide between the brothers is, you know, vast. There is no sense of William or Catherine wanting to get involved in Harry's adventures. In the UK this week there was no sign of that being any kind of thaw on that side at all.

[Adam Fleming]

You mentioned the court case. So this is Associated Newspapers, who are the parent group of the Daily Mail and Harry and some other sources. Celebrities have been doing this long running legal action against them, saying that they used unlawful methods to get information. It's probably stories about. About them. Just remind us where we've got to with that.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah, well, that court case was complete several weeks ago and we now know that tomorrow we are going to have the ruling handed down. It will just be a written ruling. It won't be. It won't be a court hearing of any kind. When that moment happens, Prince Harry will be at Chatham House in central London doing a speech and chatting to people around the Invictus foundation to do with his Invictus Games. We expect that he knows a ruling by now and we are expecting to hear some kind of reaction from him whichever way it goes, at some point tomorrow. So it's, it's an important moment for him. It's, you know, has been this very personal journey on trying to expose what he believes were, you know, poor media approaches to getting stories about him over the years. And it's been a really important part of, of his public facing work to, you know, he's been on a mission around that. It's by chance that that ruling has come down while he is here. We were thinking perhaps it would come last week, but actually it's happened while he is here in the uk. So that was not planned. That's just how the court timetable has fallen and when the ruling will come. But that will all be happening tomorrow.

[Adam Fleming]

And that huge long running legal action, does that just conclusively come to an end tomorrow? I think there's a different scenario.

[Asma Khalid]

There are different scenarios, different individuals with different backstories, so there may in all of that be potential to appeal. I think for Prince Harry this is the big moment though in his own mind that this, he's had his moment in court, he's laid bare how he felt things had played out, he gave evidence. A number of journalists who he felt were not using legal methods to get stories about him have had to give evidence. So it was a very big moment, a very important moment for him. So it'll be interesting to see how that plays tomorrow in terms of the ruling and how he then frames his response.

[Adam Fleming]

And of course the irony is as a journalist, when you go to Chatham House and there's an event there, you're not allowed to report what anyone says because of the famous Chatham House rules which then apply in lots of other places that aren't even Chatham House. But yet Prince Harry will be there responding or maybe outside or maybe outside to maintain the Chatham House rules.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah, maybe outside. Although he will be speaking inside. And we will hear what he has to say more broadly about why he's in the uk.

[Adam Fleming]

And I should just say Associated Newspapers limited have strongly denied what they call preposterous allegations. So we shall see what the judge thinks in a few hours time. Daniela, thank you.

[Asma Khalid]

Thanks Adam.

[Adam Fleming]

And we will be back with another episode of Newscast very soon. Bye bye. Newscast.

[Asma Khalid]

Newscast from the BBC.

[Dale Johnson]

Well, thank you for making it to

[Asma Khalid]

the end of another newscast.

[Adam Fleming]

You clearly ooze stamina. Can I gently encourage you to subscribe

[Dale Johnson]

to us on BBC Sounds? And then, without having to do anything else, our meandering chat will miraculously make its way to your phone.

[Asma Khalid]

Is the American Dream still possible? I'm Asma Khalid, one of the hosts of the Global Story podcast from the BBC. One of the most successful exports the United States has ever sold the world Is the American Dream dream that tantalizing promise of a better, freer, richer life. But is it still attainable?

[Adam Fleming]

I feel like the American Dream is alive, but not well.

[Asma Khalid]

For more, listen to the global story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.