Old Newscast: How Jeremy Corbyn Won The Labour Leadership 2015 (Part 1)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Newscast

Episode: Old Newscast: How Jeremy Corbyn Won The Labour Leadership 2015 (Part 1)
Date: December 29, 2025
Host: Adam Fleming
Guests: Nick Watt (former Guardian political reporter), Jane Merrick (former Political Editor, Independent on Sunday)

---

Overview:

This episode revisits the dramatic and unexpected ascendancy of Jeremy Corbyn to Labour Party leader in 2015. The hosts and guests reflect, as journalists who covered the period, on how Corbyn—a rank outsider with little expectation of success—was able to not only get on the ballot but win the leadership contest by a landslide. The conversation sets the scene, traces the immediate aftermath of Labour's 2015 electoral defeat, explores the party's “crossroads” moment, and unpacks the critical factors that enabled Corbyn’s entry into the race.

---

Main Topics & Key Discussion Points:

1. Setting the Scene: Labour at Rock Bottom (01:24–08:11)

• Labour’s huge loss in the 2015 general election left the party demoralized and directionless.
• Ed Miliband’s immediate resignation put Harriet Harman as interim leader.
• Notable moments: Nick Clegg’s devastated reaction, Ed Miliband’s resignation speech, and David Cameron’s surprise majority win.
  • Quote, Adam Fleming (04:27):
    "Two hours where it was just absolutely incredible as a journalist, because you had Nick Clegg crying pretty much... Ed Miliband looking really upset, but also really relieved... and then 15 minutes later, you had David Cameron waltzing into Downing street with a majority that no one had ever expected."
• Labour’s existential crisis: What would their new direction be?

2. The Legacy of Ed Miliband and Labour’s Leftward Shift (06:17–07:03)

• Miliband’s campaign was more left-wing than in 2010 but still not radical.
• The party was already questioning its ideological position and how to differentiate itself from the Conservatives.

3. The Welfare Cuts Vote and Party Division (07:55–09:55)

• Harriet Harman, as interim leader, chose not to oppose new welfare cuts, weakening Labour’s left credentials.
  • Quote, Jane Merrick (08:11):
    "Her positioning in hindsight, sort of... It consolidated a feeling among some Labour members... is this what we want? Do we really want this? Kind of more of the same, you know, a kind of a Tory light."
• Andy Burnham’s standing was undermined by this controversial abstention.
  • Quote, Nick Watt (09:03):
    "Harriet Harman instructed the Shadow Cabinet to abstain on that crucial welfare vote... And he [Burnham] says that was an absolutely crucial moment in undermining his credibility to be seen on the left."

4. Labour’s New Leadership Voting Rules (09:55–11:37)

• In response to earlier selection scandals, Miliband changed leadership voting, allowing anyone to become a “registered supporter” for £3, extending voting rights far beyond traditional party structures.
• This created the environment for thousands of new supporters to impact the leadership outcome.
  • Quote, Nick Watt (11:07):
    "...they were known as the three pounders. You sign up and you get the vote. And that was very, very significant."

5. Who Was Jeremy Corbyn? (11:52–16:25)

• Corbyn: veteran backbencher, anti-war campaigner, associated with the Socialist Campaign Group, not considered a major figure or future leader.
  • Quote, Jane Merrick (12:48):
    "He was never seen as, you know, be anywhere near power, but he was a sort of a, you know, had very strong beliefs about anti war collectivism..."
• Corbyn’s personality was unassuming, understated—literally walked in the corridors’ margins.
  • Quote, Nick Watt (13:32):
    "He'd sort of walk really, really close to the wall... a marginal figure that nobody, a literal outsider, nobody talked to."
• Nick Watt recalls a senior London Labour MP admitting never having spoken to Corbyn before he became leader (13:50).
• Memorable moment: 1984 Newsnight clip where Corbyn defends wearing a homemade jumper in Parliament (13:59–14:42).
• Corbyn’s one genuine power base was his local Islington North constituency, where he was beloved and embedded.

6. The Guardian, Seamus Milne, and the Media’s Role (16:07–16:49)

• Corbyn’s ideological world had a place in parts of the left media, especially the Guardian, whose comment editor Seamus Milne (a future Corbyn aide) was “very, very left wing”.

7. How Jeremy Corbyn Became a Candidate: The ‘Cab Rank’ Theory (18:34–20:27)

• It wasn’t inevitable that Corbyn would run—he emerged as the candidate almost by default, as others (McDonnell, Abbott) had already taken their turn.
  • Quote, Jane Merrick (19:44):
    "It was a kind of, you know, who’s next on the cab rank, isn’t it?... and it's sort of the nominations. He got enough nominations. And he basically said... ‘Unfortunately, my hat was put in the ring.’"
• The campaign group “always” put up a candidate—this time it turned out to be Corbyn, not by master plan but chance and duty.

8. Broadening the Debate: The “Pity Nomination” Phenomenon (21:00–23:00)

• Several MPs, including Margaret Beckett, nominated Corbyn “to broaden the debate”, fully expecting him to lose.
  • Quote, Margaret Beckett, via Jane Merrick (21:24):
    "I nominated him because he said that he wanted to stimulate a different kind of debate and I was up for that... I didn’t expect him to be elected the leader and I was dismayed when he was."
  • Quote, Jane Merrick (22:08):
    “Oh, I think it’s one of the worst [mistakes] I’ve ever made.”
• Some nominations were transactional; London mayoral hopefuls also nominated Corbyn for party selection reasons.
• John McTernan was brutally critical of MPs who nominated Corbyn:
  • Nick Watt (24:26):
    "The people who nominated Jeremy Corbyn and didn't believe in him were morons... The moronic MPs who nominated Jeremy Corbyn to have a debate... need their heads felt..."

9. Last-Minute Drama: Corbyn’s Cliffhanger Ballot Access (25:45–28:32)

• Corbyn struggled to meet the 35 nominations required to appear on the ballot; journalists and even his team doubted it would happen.
  • Quote, Jane Merrick (26:05):
    "On the Monday morning... we had this huge graphic of who are the Labour leadership candidates... and a tiny little photo of Jeremy Corbyn and we were calling it Pixels Wide. He's not gonna get the nominations."
• John McDonnell (future Shadow Chancellor) was in tears, “begging” for last-minute nominations.
• Corbyn ultimately squeaked over the line, getting his 35th nomination with only minutes to spare.
  • Quote, Jeremy Corbyn (29:35):
    "Yes, we got the 35th in with two minutes to go. We had two minutes to spare."

10. Reflections on the Irony & Aftermath (29:41–31:34)

• Corbyn himself acknowledged on TV that many colleagues who nominated him didn’t actually agree with him—"pity nominations."
  • Quote, Jeremy Corbyn (30:00):
    "Those colleagues who nominated me... may not necessarily agree with me on the pitch I'm taking or my views on many things, but they also felt there needs to be a full debate on policy in the party."
• Adam Fleming’s memorable photo: Margaret Hodge, later a fierce Corbyn critic, hugs and congratulates him, exemplifying the irony and unpredictability of what lay ahead (30:42–31:16).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps):

• On Corbyn’s outsider status:
  Nick Watt (13:32):
  "He'd sort of walk really, really close to the wall... a literal outsider, nobody talked to."

• On “broadening the debate”:
  Margaret Beckett via Jane Merrick (21:24):
  "I nominated him because he said that he wanted to stimulate a different kind of debate and I was up for that... I didn’t expect him to be elected the leader and I was dismayed when he was."

• On John McDonald’s desperation:
  Jane Merrick (27:57):
  "John McDonnell... had been in tears in the minutes before 12 o' clock as he was begging his colleagues to support Jeremy Corbyn."

• On the significance of process and chance:
  Nick Watt (27:43):
  "They were literally his team standing outside there. Please do it, please do it... It was absolutely touch and go whether he was going to do it."

• Corbyn’s own reaction to scraping onto the ballot:
  Jeremy Corbyn (29:35):
  "Yes, we got the 35th in with two minutes to go. We had two minutes to spare."

• Adam Fleming on the mood in the newsroom:
  Adam Fleming (30:42):
  “Jeremy Corbyn has walked in to come and talk to the media... Margaret Hodge. She hugs him and congratulates him... a photo of the moment... just such an ironic photo because she'd go on to become a mortal opponent of his.”

---

Segment Breakdown (Timestamps):

• Labour’s 2015 election defeat and aftermath: 01:24–08:11
• Leadership contest process & Miliband’s changes: 09:55–11:37
• Corbyn’s background and outsider image: 11:52–16:49
• Guardian connection & media angle: 16:07–16:49
• The search for a left-wing candidate; why Corbyn ran: 18:34–20:27
• The ‘broaden the debate’ rationale & MP regret: 21:00–23:00
• Near-miss: the dramatic nomination deadline: 25:45–29:41
• Immediate reaction to getting on the ballot: 29:24–30:29
• Reflections & setting up the next episode: 30:42–31:48

---

Takeaways:

• Corbyn’s ascent was a blend of chance, procedural quirks, post-defeat soul-searching, and “pity nominations”.
• Many key participants—MPs and journalists alike—misread the mood and underestimated the appetite for an alternative.
• Significant party rules changes and the presence of an energized, new supporter base (the “three pounders”) were crucial.
• Broadening debate, intended as a theoretical exercise, became a transformative event.

---

The episode concludes by teeing up the next episode, which will explore the campaign itself and how Corbyn harnessed unexpected momentum to sweep to victory.

Transcript

[Adam Fleming]

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.

[Jane Merrick]

Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a Paychex company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results.

[Nick Watt]

From recruiting and development to payroll and.

[Jane Merrick]

Analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset. Your people ready to become a better leader? Visit paycor.com, to learn more.

[Adam Fleming]

That's paycord.com leaders when it's time to.

[Jane Merrick]

Scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot and turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today.

[Nick Watt]

Jeremy Corbyn has won more than 50% of the votes cast in this round and I'm therefore delighted to declare Jeremy Corbyn elected as leader of the Labor Party.

[Adam Fleming]

12 September 2015 the day Jeremy Corbyn became leader of the the Labour Party. At the start of the contest, he was a 200 to 1 outsider, according to some bookies, but ended up with almost 60% of the vote of Labour members and registered supporters and thereby trouncing his rivals Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper and Liz Kendall. We are going to look back at how Jeremy Corbyn went from rank outsider to winning that contest in the next two episodes of Old Newscast. And for those of you who don't know what Old Newscast is, this is where we look back at some moments which have been turning points in recent history and talk to people who either covered it as journalists or were involved in the events in some way. We have done plenty episodes before, ranging from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the expenses scandal in the British Parliament. So to set the scene for this set of old newscasts, Labour has just suffered a huge defeat in the 2015 general election. Ed Miliband resigned the morning after and Labour was at a genuine crossroads, agonizing over which direction to the party should go in. So how did Jeremy Corbyn get on the ballot paper in the first place? How was he able to defy all expectations that will be the subject of the next two episodes of all Newscast.

[Nick Watt]

Newscast Newscast from the BBC. I didn't set out in life with any overweening ambition to do anything. Those colleagues who nominated me MPs who.

[Jane Merrick]

Nominated me may not necessarily agree with me. This is the.

[Nick Watt]

I think I'm right in saying 83rd event we've done Jeremy Corbyn elected as leader of the Labour Party.

[Adam Fleming]

Hello, it's Adam in the old newscast studio and I'm joined by Nick Watt from Newsnight.

[Nick Watt]

Hello, Adam.

[Adam Fleming]

And in this era you were doing.

[Nick Watt]

I was working for the Guardian.

[Adam Fleming]

Ah, yeah, the old fashioned.

[Nick Watt]

The old fashioned print stuff.

[Adam Fleming]

Yes, Actually, I suppose Twitter and, I mean online was obviously huge by then.

[Nick Watt]

We were pioneers for the online era at the Guardian, I think you'll remember.

[Adam Fleming]

Yeah. And live blogs were becoming a thing.

[Nick Watt]

And I took Twitter very, very seriously because the editor of the Guardian, Alan Rusbridge, just signed us all up and it was all about how you've got to sum everything up in 147 characters. And I said the immortal words were, this will never catch on.

[Adam Fleming]

Okay. But your analysis of many other things still stands from that period. And we're also joined by Jane Merrick, who's policy editor at the I paper. And at the time, Jane, you were.

[Jane Merrick]

I was political editor of the Independent on Sunday.

[Adam Fleming]

Right.

[Jane Merrick]

So another print.

[Adam Fleming]

And was the Independent on Sunday because, like, the papers had sort of not like loyalties to bits of the political spectrum, but, like, where. Where was the Independent? Was it.

[Jane Merrick]

We were very in the centre, but. But we didn't back anyone. I mean, Even at the 2015 election, we didn't back anyone. So our sister paper, the Daily, backed, I think the sort of the Lib Dems, but further, you know, coalition. But we made a point of not backing anyone because we wanted to be purely independent, but I guess kind of smaller liberal, fairly centrist. Yeah, that's where we were.

[Adam Fleming]

Right. So we just had the 2015 election. And I remember I was working on Daily politics and the Sunday politics at the time, where actually, Nick, you were a pundit on the Sunday morning sofa. And I remember the morning after the 2015 election. It was. There was two hours where it was just absolutely incredible as a journalist, because you had Nick Clegg crying pretty much because the Lib Dems had been wiped out.

[Nick Watt]

It is simply heartbreaking to see so many friends and colleagues who have served their constituents so diligently over so many years abruptly lose their seats because of forces entirely beyond their control.

[Adam Fleming]

You then had Ed Miliband looking really upset, but also really relieved, actually. Even though there had been a wipeout for Labour.

[Jane Merrick]

Britain needs a Labour Party that can.

[Adam Fleming]

Rebuild after this defeat so we can.

[Jane Merrick]

Have a government that stands up for working people again.

[Adam Fleming]

And now it's time for someone else.

[Jane Merrick]

To take forward the leadership of this party.

[Adam Fleming]

And then 15 minutes later, you had David Cameron waltzing into Downing street with a majority that no one had ever expected and no one had predicted throughout the campaign.

[Jane Merrick]

Together we can make Great Britain greater still.

[Adam Fleming]

Where, where was Labour that morning, do you think, Nick?

[Nick Watt]

Labour was in a bad place? Because I think Ed Miliband really thought he was in with a good chance. There was a new candidate who stood and got elected in that election. And this new candidate, I understand it was absolutely convinced that he was going to be the Attorney General in Ed Miliband's government. But that candidate actually ended up in a better place than being Attorney General because he's now Prime Minister and he goes by the name of Keir Starmer. So they were quite surprised. I think what everybody was surprised about, and certainly in the Labour Party, was that, as you said, Adam, David Cameron had got a majority. And I think that's what made things.

[Adam Fleming]

Much more difficult for Labour and Jane, just to remind people about the campaign that Ed Miliband had fought, it was quite a left wing campaign compared to kind of the New Labour era.

[Jane Merrick]

Yeah, I mean, he'd sort of, he'd. I think he was really popular in the polls. His poll ratings were really good in that sort of early tension. And he was sort of leaning into this and saying, okay, let's start to talk about, you know, renationalization of some things. He wasn't sort of completely off the center, but it was more left wing than we'd seen in 2010. And I think the party were going through this process of, well, we had New Labour. How do we counter the Conservatives? They've already had austerity under the coalition. So what's the defining offer that we can make to the electorate? And it was a slightly more left wing offer.

[Adam Fleming]

And then Ed Miliband announced he was standing down straight away. And I'd sort of, I'd forgotten that because we sort of get used to the idea that you sort of stay around for a while to oversee your replacement being selected. But actually he went straight away, didn't he, and was replaced by Harriet Harmon.

[Nick Watt]

He did. And I, I think there was pretty serious people who were saying, look, can you stay on? But I, my impression at the time was that he, I think he didn't he say, he said, I just cannot face doing another Prime Minister's questions. And we often forget politics, that they are actually human beings. And when you've been leader of the opposition and you've genuinely Thought that there's a good chance you're going to be Prime Minister, and it all falls apart. There is just a human level and we often forget that. And so that human level kicked in and he went, that's it, thank you very much.

[Adam Fleming]

And also, there were still important things happening for the Labour Party with Harriet Harmon in charge as the interim leader. For example, George Osborne announced a whole new load of welfare cuts and the 2 child benefit cap, for example, and Harriet Harmon decided not to oppose them.

[Jane Merrick]

Yeah. And in hindsight, actually, this was a really significant moment in the context of that leadership election. She basically said, we're not going to oppose these. These welfare cuts because Labour had to come back with a sort of economically credible alternate, you know, offer to the Conservatives, so they couldn't be sort of saying, oh, we're going to. We're going to overturn these welfare cuts, because that would obviously leave a black hole. But. But her positioning in hindsight, sort of. I think it consolidated a feeling among some Labour members and then Labour voters who would then go on to join the party that actually, is this what we want? Do we really want this? Kind of more of the same, you know, a kind of a Tory light.

[Adam Fleming]

Too right wing, basically.

[Jane Merrick]

Yeah.

[Nick Watt]

I mean, I just say, Adam, were you to find yourself in the presence of Andy Burnham right now, and you would say, hello, Andy, Welfare vote Harriet Harmon, you would get quite a reaction.

[Adam Fleming]

Like a visceral reaction.

[Nick Watt]

It's a visceral reaction because he feels very strongly, he thought, going into that contest. Cause we'll come to this. They hadn't quite spotted the significance of Jeremy Corbyn. He thought he was well positioned as the candidate, not on the left, but to the left of the other mainstream candidates. And then, as Jane said, Harriet Harmon instructed the Shadow Cabinet to abstain on that crucial welfare vote, which is not voting it down. And Andy Burnham argued in Shadow Cabinet, saying, not a good idea. I think he got their agreement to put a reasoned amendment. This is what Labour would do. So they were able to say they voted for what they thought, but on the vote on the bill, they abstained. And he says that that was an absolutely crucial moment in undermining his credibility to be seen on the left.

[Adam Fleming]

Then there's another bit of important context to this as we lay the ground before we get into the contest, which is Ed Miliband had changed the voting system for the Labour leadership.

[Jane Merrick]

Yeah, that's right. There's sort of. In 2013, there was an MP called Eric Joyce, who was the Labour MP for Falkirk. And this is one of those kind of like chaos theory, you know, butterfly effect moments. He'd had this altercation in a. In a Commons bar and had basically stood down. I think he'd sort of accepted that he had to resign as an mp. And in that ensuing selection for the Labour candidate, there was this great row at which sort of, you know, unite, allegedly trying to pile in and get members to come in to back their person, who was Carrie Murphy, and it turned into this huge rile. So Ed Miliband, back in 2014, had ordered this review of Labour membership rules and it was supposed to sort of not to weaken the union influence over Labour, but to basically make it fairer for selections and for eventually leadership contests.

[Adam Fleming]

And basically you could not join the Labour Party, but become a registered supporter by paying three pounds, which crucially gave you a vote in any leadership contest. And that would become very important.

[Nick Watt]

As we will hear, we will talk about that. Let's not steal our thunder. But I think in this we're going to have many sliding door moments and I think everyone talks about the Eric Joyce bust up in the bar and that is an absolutely crucial sliding door moment because, I mean, we'll talk about it. The significance of being able to literally, for three, they were known as the three pounders. You sign up and you get the vote. And that was very, very significant. As we will find out for. Should we be giving away the winner of this contest or is that giving.

[Adam Fleming]

Away the plotline too soon really a spoiler? And then one last bit of background before we dive into what actually then happened. Who is. Was Jeremy Corbyn at that point? I mean, he'd been an MP for a very, very long time, elected in 1983. He'd been around for ages.

[Jane Merrick]

So I joined the lobby in 2001, a little bit after Nick and Jeremy Corbyn sort of in those years was basically, obviously, Tony Blair was Prime Minister. It was a run up to the Iraq War. Jeremy Corbyn was one of those guys in the socialist campaign group on the left of the Labour Party who you would phone up and you would say, what do you think about what Tony Blair has said on Iraq? You know, he was a great sort of. He was a great person to comment. He was never seen as, you know, be anywhere near power, but he was a sort of a, you know, had very strong beliefs about anti war collectivism and was just one of the, you know, one of the campaign group, a bit like John McDonnell and Diane Abbott and so on. So never really Seen as sort of a major figure, but, you know, a back, sort of a long standing backbencher on the left.

[Adam Fleming]

And he was part of the socialist campaign group and there was a large handful of Labour MPs who sort of had the same views as him. But he didn't necessarily have followers or a team or a group of people around him.

[Nick Watt]

No, because of course Tony Blair had this big majority, which didn't mean they could do exactly what he wanted. I mean, when you have that famous Iraq war vote in 2003, was he going to get it through on Labour votes? So he couldn't do anything he wanted, but he had a big majority. And so Jeremy Corbyn was on the margins, but Jane was mentioning those other people in the campaign group, John McDonald, Diane Abbott, Ken Livingston had been there before he became the mayor. They were much, much bigger figures, they were much bigger national figures than Jeremy Corbyn. I mean, I remember. So as Jane said, I meant to enter the lobby in 1997 and I remember you'd sort of walk around Westminster and Jeremy Corbyn would be the sort of guy when he was walking along a corridor, he'd sort of walk really, really close to the wall. Well, like, he was sort of this, like, marginal figure that nobody, a literal.

[Adam Fleming]

Outsider, nobody talked to.

[Nick Watt]

I mean, I remember when he became leader of the Labour Party, I've given away when he became leader of the Labour Party, I remember talking to one very prominent figure in the Labour Party who was actually a London mp. And when he became leader, this person said to me, nick, I've never spoken to Jeremy Corbyn in my entire life.

[Adam Fleming]

And there's this quite incredible clip from Newsnight from 1984 where Jeremy Corbyn is having to defend what he wears in the House of Commons most days.

[Nick Watt]

It's not a fashion parade, it's not a gentleman's club, it's not a Bankers Institute, it's a place where the people are represented. Is that the jumper that your mum makes?

[Jane Merrick]

Yes, it is. She didn't make the shirt as well?

[Nick Watt]

No, no, she didn't make the shirt.

[Jane Merrick]

That came from the Co Op, but the jumper she knitted.

[Nick Watt]

And it's very comfortable and it's perfect.

[Jane Merrick]

For this kind of weather because I'm hopping in and out of buildings all.

[Nick Watt]

Day long, going to meetings and different.

[Jane Merrick]

Places and it's just perfect for the winter weather. Late at night here, it's quite disgusting.

[Nick Watt]

After the dinners are over and the division bell rings for 10 o', clock.

[Jane Merrick]

There'S fleets of Limousines draw up and out, get large Tory MPs with even larger stomachs wearing dinner jackets and they stride in to vote. You're not jealous? Not at all, because I turn down dinner invitations all the time. I don't think that's the job of an mp.

[Nick Watt]

The job of an MP is to represent their people.

[Adam Fleming]

But actually, Jeremy Corbyn was famous, is putting it too strongly. He was well known, even if actually he didn't have any power or authority. Represented quite a niche set of views.

[Jane Merrick]

Yeah, I think he was well known because he was just been around a long time and it's sort of, it's easy to forget actually, that you say there were like lots of Labour MPs, but he was distinctive. I mean, you know, there are many Labour MPs from that era that you wouldn't be household names even then because they were just sort of rank and file lobby fodder, as we would call them, disparagingly. So, yeah, he had a distinctive voice, but as Nick says, he was never one of the kind of leading persons in that group.

[Nick Watt]

And he had sort of really got on the national political map in the 1980s, I think it was when he invited Jerry Adams to a meeting in Parliament because obviously Jerry Adams had been elected as MP for West Belfast. But obviously an abstentionist policy didn't take a seat in those days.

[Adam Fleming]

Yeah, champagne don't come to Parliament.

[Nick Watt]

Not only, but they now come to Parliament, but they don't sit in Parliament. But in those days they didn't go anywhere near the place. And that was obviously a huge moment. And that did put him on the map. I mean, because I worked at the Guardian, there were people at the Guardian who did know Jeremy Corbyn pretty well. So he was sort of on the, on, on, on. On the Guardian. He was sort of very much there. And interesting. It was one person who knew him quite well, who was our comment editor, somebody called Seamus Milne, who went on to become his director of communications.

[Adam Fleming]

And actually when you would open the Guardian on a Saturday and you'd read the columns, you'd have all the, all the columnists there and then you'd get to Seamus Milne's column. And if you wanted a very, very left wing view that was very, quite different from the political mainstream, that that's where you would go and that's what you would read in Seamus columns.

[Jane Merrick]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's sort of, it's, it's, it's a great thing about newspapers, isn't it, that you can have something like the Guardian. And actually within the Guardian, there would be a range of views across comment. And the same in the Independent and the Independent on Sunday, we had a range of sort of people commentating. But really fascinating, as Nick says, to see sort of that person go from being that commentator into his camp.

[Adam Fleming]

But you know where he absolutely did have a power base in advance, and that was his constituency. Cause I remember going out filming with him in Islington north, and we went for a big walk around Finsbury park. And actually, by this point, he was the leader. So it's not scientific, but the number of people who came up to speak to him and say hello to him, not because he was leader of the Labour Party, but because they sort of felt like he was their local friend. It was quite incredible how many people in his patch felt very invested in him.

[Nick Watt]

And that is one of the things that we will be talking about when we talk about this leadership contest, is that we think of him as this figure on the left who you invited, Gerry Adams, to the House of Commons. He's always, you know, championed the Palestinian cause. He has these big, big political issues that he champions. But his other quality that came through in that campaign is he's very personable and he's very approachable and he's very easy to talk to. And that was obviously what you experienced when you saw him in the constituency. And that became apparent on the campaign trail.

[Adam Fleming]

Right, so we then have this leadership contest to take over from Ed Miliband, with Harriet Harmon filling in as the interim leader. A few people put their names forward and then drop out for various reasons.

[Nick Watt]

Chaka Moona.

[Adam Fleming]

Yes. Who would go and eventually become a Lib Dem. Tristram Hunt. Who then would go and become the director of the Victoria and Albert Museum. He dropped out. So who do we end up with as the final candidates?

[Nick Watt]

I think we had Yvette Cooper.

[Adam Fleming]

Yeah.

[Nick Watt]

Liz Kendall. 4.5% she got in the vote. Andy Burnham and Jeremy Corbyn. Have I missed out anyone?

[Adam Fleming]

No, that was the final four, because I remember very well a daily politics hustings with the four of them at the lecterns. How did Jeremy Corbyn end up, even as a potential candidate? Nick?

[Nick Watt]

Well, it wasn't inevitable. I mean, I did the Guardian. We used to do these things called long reads. Was like 5,000 words. And after Jeremy Corbyn became leader, I've given away the plotline again. Patrick Winter, my colleague, and I did a long read on, you know, how it happened. And he was obviously in the campaign group. The campaign group had a meeting in room W3, which is near the Cromwell statue on the Parliamentary estate. And it was, who are we gonna choose? Because the chain group would always put up a candidate. It'd been Diane Abbott before it being John McDonald. They would stand and they would go nowhere. But they needed to put up a fight, you know, put the flag, the stake in the ground. And it was a discussion about who would do it. And it was. Was it Diane's turn? Is it John McDonald's turn? And they couldn't sort of reach a conclusion. And the people we spoke to, I think it was Clive Lewis we spoke to. And it was sort of like looking around the room. Yeah. And Jeremy Corbyn said, well, I can do it. And there were people who thought, really? Jeremy, really? And then eventually, and I think the quote was that he said something like, if I've got your support, I'll do it. And I think they sort of adjourned the meeting and then they came back and then it was okay.

[Adam Fleming]

So it was all quite half hearted.

[Jane Merrick]

It was a kind of, you know, who's next on the cab rank, isn't it? Because obviously John McDonald stood against Gordon Brown in 2007. There wasn't actually election because so many MPs voted for Gordon. In the end, Diane Abbott removed all.

[Adam Fleming]

His potential opponents, I argue.

[Jane Merrick]

And then in 2010, Diane Abbott stood, so it's basically his turn. And there's this amazing quote that he, that Corbyn gave on the day that it's sort of the nominations. He got enough nominations. And he basically said to the Guardian, actually, you know, we talked about it, it was, you know, we had to put someone's hat in the ring. Unfortunately, my hat was put in the ring. I mean, it was unfortunately this extraordinary moment that he on the ballot and he described it as unfortunately.

[Adam Fleming]

And the build up to the deadline to get enough nominations to get on the ballot. I remember that wasn't really dominated about a conversation about where's the Labour Party going to go? The narrative that emerged during that kind of pre contest period was, hang on, are there enough candidates on the ballot who represent enough different wings of the party? And then it was a whole debate about, oh, actually, should we make sure we have a really wide ranging conversation about what kind of political party labor is going to be? It was quite, looking back at it, quite a weird sort of focus to be.

[Nick Watt]

Yes, the phrase was, let's ensure we broaden the debate. Yeah. And one of the people who wanted to broaden the debate was Margaret Beckett, the former deputy leader of the party, and she nominated Jeremy Corbyn, which she subsequently described, I think as the worst political mistake in her entire life.

[Adam Fleming]

Here is Margaret Beckett in her own words, speaking to Nikki Campbell.

[Jane Merrick]

I nominated him because he said that he wanted to stimulate a different kind of debate and I was up for that. And he said he wanted to put a different approach to economic policy into the party debate. And I thought that was. That was a necessary challenge. I thought that was something the party had to do to look again at our approach to economic policy and consideration what the different times required. I was up for that. I didn't expect him to be elected the leader and I was dismayed when he was. And I felt I had to say so because I didn't want people to think that I was suggesting that they vote for him.

[Nick Watt]

How does this rank in your list of your own personal political mistakes?

[Jane Merrick]

Oh, I think it's one of the worst I've ever made.

[Nick Watt]

So he got lucky from the broaden the debate. He also got lucky, I think it was four Labour MPs from London wanted to contest the London Mayor oral contest and they needed to get selection amongst the Labour Party membership in London. So what did they do? Well, funnily enough, they all nominated Jeremy Corbyn. So I think that was four that he got. But I mean, I don't want to steal your thunder, but you want to be talking the countdown to midday, I think it was Monday 15th June. Would he get across the line? I'm feeding you that line. Cause I don't want to give away the plot line of what I mean, Adam.

[Adam Fleming]

But also, just again with that whole thing about broadening the debates, was that because the other three, Liz Kendall, Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham, were seen as a bit, kind of a bit the same, even though they actually are all quite different characters and they do have different politics.

[Jane Merrick]

Sure. So Yvette Cooper had been a minister under the Blair and Brown governments, as had Andy Burnham. Liz Kendall had been a special advisor under that government. So it felt like it was very sort of, this is very establishment. And even though Andy Burnham was trying to kind of define himself and go a bit leftwards and he was sort of supposed to be getting the Unite backing. He was talking sort of quite Brexity in a sense, about Europe, it was seen as very establishment and there needed to be that broader debate. But also, let's not forget what defeats do to parties. You know, when they just lost this defeat, lost this Election, as Nick was saying earlier, expecting to win it because the polls were suggesting that Labour might win. They were feeling in a really bad place. They were really sort of, where do we go next? Next? What should we do? We can't just have this sort of, you know, go through the motions and have who's next, who should be leader. There had to be this proper debate about how do we win in 2020, as it would have been then, because we had fixed term parliaments and that would have been the next election. So they were in this real crisis mode of we need to sort of look at ourselves, how do we win voters over?

[Adam Fleming]

Because I suppose that's. That's a. That's a positive way of looking at that. A negative way of looking at that is like. Like this is a bunch of very complacent people who think they've got the luxury of having a big debate about their identity, so they could maybe just have this wild card person in there so they can have a great debate amongst themselves. That's not the same as getting yourself in shape to win an election.

[Nick Watt]

Well, that's why Margaret Beckett said, you know, it was a big mistake. And I think John McTurnan, who was political secretary to Tony Blair, who's still around on the airwaves, I think he was more frequently, and he said that the people who nominated Jeremy Corbyn and didn't believe in him were morons. The moronic MPs who nominated Jeremy Corbyn to have a debate includes John Cruddinson. Need their heads felt they need their heads felt they should be ashamed of themselves.

[Jane Merrick]

Well, hang on, hang on. You can say that.

[Adam Fleming]

Then what you might say, this is actually morons.

[Nick Watt]

They're morons. Right? That's the first thing.

[Jane Merrick]

The second thing is, but these actually, there are actually. You do accept there are labor members and indeed people in the country that do support Jeremy Corbyn? I mean, it's not a chimera.

[Nick Watt]

Political parties are full of suicidally inclined.

[Adam Fleming]

Activists and clearly some of our members are suicidally inclined.

[Nick Watt]

So he said that pretty strongly. But I mean, at that time in the leadership conduct the Guardian, we used to do these sort of big Saturday interviews with the candidates and the perception was, as you say, that Liz Kendall, Andy Burnham and Vet Cooper were pretty similar, but actually they were very different. So I remember with Patrick doing the Liz Kendall interview, I mean, basically she was giving late Blair to a party that had decided to go pre Blair, so she hadn't done the Blair that he got the leadership from, which was all sort of quite Christian socialism and stakeholders. She gave the 2005 Blair, which is his. The medicine, shove it down your throat, whether you like it or not. That didn't go down well.

[Adam Fleming]

Right, let's focus then, on this day, June 15, which is midday, is the deadline for the nominations to get on the ballot paper. To be the leader of the Labour Party, you have to get 35 MPs to get on it. Liz Kendall's done it, Andy Burnham's done it, Yvette Cooper's done it. But Jeremy Corbyn, at about 11am, hadn't yet.

[Jane Merrick]

Yeah. And it's really interesting, actually. Cause the day before the nominations, we at the Independent on Sunday put out this addition saying Jeremy Corbyn's not going to get on the nomination. It's sort of. It's humbling, actually, to look back and see this because there was this. There was complacency in the Labour Party. There was also, I think, a bit of complacency in the media, not expecting Jeremy Corbyn to get on the ballot. So at that point, yes, on the Monday morning and then on the Sunday when our paper went out, we had this huge graphic of who are the Labour leadership candidates? And we had Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper, Liz Kendall, who were their backers. And then a tiny little photo of Jeremy Corbyn and we were calling it Pixels Wide. He's not gonna get the nominations. I mean, it was so, you know, humbling, actually, I think, to put a positive spin on it. So you're right. On that morning, he hadn't got those numbers. And it was electrifying moment, actually, to sort of, you know, is he going to get on it? But no one was really expecting it. So when he did and he tipped over and got 36, one more than was necessary. That was the moment, obviously, that everyone said, okay, this is on, this is on.

[Nick Watt]

But I think, Jane, you're being a bit harsh on yourself, because I don't think the Jeremy Corbyn campaign thought that they were necess necessarily gonna do it. And it was absolutely touch and go. And they were standing, I think it's the PLP office, isn't it, in that sort of corridor up down the stairs from the members lobby. That's where you had to be. And they were literally his. His team was standing outside there. Please do it, please do it. Was it Gordon Marsden? Was he one of the guys who got them over the line? I think they had. Was it two people who had said to them, if you get to 34. I'll back you. But it was, was absolutely touch and go whether he was going to do it.

[Adam Fleming]

And also John McDonnell, who would then go on to be the Shadow Chancellor, but was helping to run the Corbyn campaign, then talked later on about how he'd been in tears in the minutes before 12 o' clock as he was begging his colleagues to support Jeremy Corbyn.

[Jane Merrick]

Yeah, and that's a sort of a real. It just shows, actually, sort of the stakes were very high for them because they did, you know, to be fair to the campaign group, they did want to field a candidate every time. And I think this time was actually harder to get. I think there was a sort of a slightly different, higher barrier to get on on the, the ballot paper. I think it was 15 of the PLP, not 13.5. So it was a tougher battle. And they'd sort of seen this, you know, they'd seen candidates, you know, come nowhere in previous elections. So it's almost like, I think maybe John McDonnell had a sense that this was going to be a slightly different election campaign just because where the party were.

[Adam Fleming]

And as political journalists, I mean, we were all counting down the seconds to midday. I mean, okay, maybe I'm slightly biased here because I was working on a program that was on at midday, so it was maybe a bigger deal for us because we' be on. But actually it did feel like a real big Countdown moment, didn't it?

[Nick Watt]

A countdown moment and also a sliding doors moment. I mean, because it was. So could it go one way, could it go the other? And, and, and, and you just, you just knew that it would be really significant if he got on the ballot. But at that stage, I won't steal the thunder of what we might be talking soon, but not an assumption that we'd end up where we were. An assumption that it was significant to have him on the ballot, but not an assumption that we would necessarily go where we went.

[Adam Fleming]

We went back into the archives to find that episode of Daily Politics. Here is Joe Cockburn speaking to Jeremy Corbyn just after he made it onto the leadership ballot with the 35 nominations from Labour MPs, which he needed nominations.

[Jane Merrick]

For the leadership closed at midday. And we can talk to the man who has just managed to get on the ballot, Jeremy Corbyn. Well, congratulations, Jeremy Corbyn. You just made it. Thank you.

[Adam Fleming]

Thank you.

[Jane Merrick]

Yes, we got the 35th in with two minutes to go. We had two minutes to spare.

[Nick Watt]

Well, exciting politics, you might say, in Labour ranks.

[Jane Merrick]

But I mean, how does it make you feel that you had to, some people might say, scrabble around to get those last few nominations to make it onto the ballot? Well, I think it was discussions that colleagues had with their constituency parties and.

[Nick Watt]

Party members over the weekend.

[Jane Merrick]

And I fully acknowledge and recognise that.

[Nick Watt]

Those colleagues who nominated me, MPs who.

[Jane Merrick]

Nominated me may not necessarily agree with me on the pitch I'm taking or.

[Nick Watt]

My views on many things, but they.

[Jane Merrick]

Also felt there needs to be a full debate on policy in the party. And I will obviously take part in.

[Nick Watt]

All this debate over the next three.

[Jane Merrick]

Months and hope that at the end of it, the Labour Party emerges stronger and hope the Labour Party is more resolute in opposing the principles behind austerity.

[Nick Watt]

And impoverishment of the poorest in Britain.

[Jane Merrick]

Right, so you're going to obviously contribute to the debate and we know very much where you stand in terms of the political spectrum. But if you've got MPs backing you who aren't going to vote for you, don't support any of your policies, I mean, in some way you might say, are they. I mean, these were pity nominations.

[Adam Fleming]

And I have a very, very strong memory of. And I checked back on my phone camera roll before we did this episode and it's that day. It's 12:36. It's in the BBC newsroom at Westminster. My desk was right by the front door. Jeremy Corbyn has walked in to come and talk to the media about being on the ballot. There is a Labour grandee there, Margaret Hodge. She hugs him and congratulates him. And I've got a photo of the moment where they're both just like, wow, isn't this amazing? And that is just such an ironic photo because she'd go on to become a mortal opponent of his.

[Nick Watt]

Yeah. And you'd sort of think, okay, two Labour MPs, two London Labour MPs meet up. Yeah, that's fine. But I mean, the difference between Margaret Hodge and Jeremy Corby, I mean, even at that point, is like differences between two diametrically opposed political parties. So to capture that hug is quite something.

[Adam Fleming]

Maybe I'll save that photo for my memoirs. Right, so we've now got the final four candidates for the Labour leadership election of 2015. Jeremy Corbyn is on the ballot. The campaign is about to get underway. That will be the focus of our next episode. Jane, thank you very much.

[Jane Merrick]

Thank you.

[Adam Fleming]

And Nick, thanks to you too.

[Nick Watt]

Thanks, Adam.

[Adam Fleming]

NEWSCAST.

[Nick Watt]

Newscast from the BBC.

[Jane Merrick]

Well, thank you for making it to the end of another newscast. You clearly ooze stamina, can I gently.

[Nick Watt]

Encourage you to subscribe to us on BBC Sounds?

[Jane Merrick]

And then, without having to do anything else, our meandering chat will miraculously make.

[Nick Watt]

Its way to your phone.

[Jane Merrick]

Toyota Thon.

[Adam Fleming]

Toyota Thon.

[Jane Merrick]

Toyota Thon is on. Oh, what fun it is to drive a new Toyota today. Hey, Jan from Toyota here reminding you Toyota Thon is on. Make your holiday wishes come true with a new Camry RAV4 Tacoma and more. All right, let's sing it together this time. Toyota Thon, Toyota Thon. Toyota Thon.

[Adam Fleming]

Dealer inventory may vary. Toyota thone ends January 5th.

[Jane Merrick]

See your participating dealer for details.

[Nick Watt]

Toyota, let's go places.