Royal Marines Take Control Of Russian Shadow Fleet Tanker

Summary

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Newscast Podcast Summary

Episode: "Royal Marines Take Control Of Russian Shadow Fleet Tanker"

Date: June 14, 2026
Host(s): Paddy O’Connell, Laura Kuenssberg, Joe Pike
Notable Guests: Frank Gardiner (BBC Security Correspondent), Al Khan (former Armed Forces Minister), Lisa Nandy (Government Secretary of State), John Swinney (First Minister of Scotland, via recorded segment)

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Overview

This high-impact episode centers on the UK's first-ever interception and boarding of a Russian "shadow fleet" oil tanker in the English Channel. With dramatic insights and real-time political fallout, the Newscast team explores the operation’s military, economic, and political implications, also tracking ongoing turbulence in UK defense policy, looming by-elections, and global diplomatic developments. Additional topics include the potential UK social media ban for under-16s, shifting strategy on defense spending, and a World Cup football update from Scotland.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Operation: UK Royal Marines Intercept Russian Tanker

• Footage and Context:
  Dramatic Ministry of Defense video shows helicopters and armed commandos boarding the tanker ("Smyrtos," formerly "Murtos") at night ([00:29], [02:23]).
  • Russia's "shadow fleet" described as tankers moving sanctioned oil to fund the war in Ukraine, despite global restrictions.
  • Laura Kuenssberg: “Those images now will dominate the news, probably for at least for the rest of the day.” ([00:57])
• Operational Significance:
  • This is the UK’s first direct interception and boarding of such a vessel.
  • Required complex legal, military, and intelligence groundwork following new legislation in March, marking a “more muscular approach” ([03:20]).
  • Other nations, including France and the US, have previously conducted such operations.
• Military Assets Deployed:
  • Multiple aircraft types, Royal Marines, National Crime Agency officers, and both HMS Sutherland (frigate) and HMS Ledbury (minehunter) ([04:59]).

Notable Quote:

• Frank Gardiner:
  “They've trained for this since January… It will infuriate the Kremlin. President Putin, I think, will be very angry about this. The jeopardy here is that what happens when Russia starts escorting these tankers with warships.” ([03:44])

Political Ramifications: Defense Spending and Government Instability

• Defense Budget Debate:
  • Operation’s expense collides with ongoing political crises: recent resignations (notably John Healey and Al Khan), and controversy over whether enough funds are allocated to defense ([05:55]).
  • Pressure on the government to provide further resources, especially as the international situation intensifies.
• Resignations and Tensions:
  • Former Armed Forces Minister Al Khan discusses delays, legal concerns, and complexities of targeting legitimate shadow fleet ships ([06:27], [07:01]).
  • Government officials scramble to reassess budgets after public resignations—Lisa Nandy suggests new funds may be found after all ([09:26]).
  • Laura Kuenssberg: "It’s a really big deal… We should underline to newscasters how significant Healey quitting or was in terms of Starmer’s authority, his credibility. … Helio has put a pretty big hole in one of Starmer's last sort of protecting flanks…” ([15:14])
• Leadership and Ambition:
  • Ministers, including Lisa Nandy, balance loyalty and self-interest amid speculation of an imminent leadership contest ([13:32]).
  • By-election and upcoming G7 summit may shape political futures.
  • Ongoing debate on how Labour and other parties would—realistically or not—boost defense spending ([21:01]).

Notable Quotes:

• Al Khan (ex-Armed Forces Minister, discussing the actual tactics):
  “There will be Marines and Navy and Air Force personnel boarding helicopters, flying low level over the sea, rearing up before the ship, fast roping onto the ship, securing it and then taking it into our territorial waters. An amazing operation, excellently prosecuted by our Royal Marines and others.” ([06:27])
• Lisa Nandy:
  “We’ve got to transform the way that we do defence spending to make sure that what we’re spending is fit for the threats that we face now and in the future, not just the threats that we faced in the past.” ([10:52])

Broader Strategy: Sanctions, Evasion, and Diplomatic Stakes

• Sanctions Evasion:
  • Shadow fleet tankers continue to shuffle registries and ship names, evading sanctions via “flags of convenience” ([08:03]).
  • Laura Kuenssberg: “Russia operates in the space between war and peace… testing the boundaries of what war is and what peace is…” ([08:17])
• International Alignment:
  • UK, France, Germany, and the US coordinate to reduce Russian revenues and support Ukraine before any peace talks ([08:37]).
• Visual Messaging:
  • High-definition footage distributed deliberately as a signal, “not just for voters in the UK but for… Vladimir Putin… and maybe for Donald Trump, too.” ([21:57])

Other Major Stories

Iran–US–Pakistan: Strait of Hormuz Deal

• Anticipated Agreement:
  • Ongoing uncertainty over a peace accord reopening the Strait ([23:08]).
  • Discrepancy between Donald Trump’s social media claims and Iranian officials’ statements about timing ([24:28]).
  • Laura Kuenssberg: “Even after peace is agreed, it will be at least eight months before things return to normal… the hangover from this conflict is still going to be with us for a long time.” ([23:08])

UK Social Media Ban for Under-16s

• Policy Preview:
  • Announcement expected for a major social media age restriction, possibly including a curfew ([27:38]). Minister Lisa Nandy supportive, aiming for “cultural change” ([29:35]).
  • Skepticism about real-world impact, with reference to mixed results in Australia ([30:27]).
  • Criticism over political motivations and the rush to legislate, with some campaigners wanting tougher, more nuanced controls.

Scottish Football Segment

• World Cup Update:
  • First Minister John Swinney’s spirited match recap after Scotland’s victory highlighted (lighthearted closing segment) ([32:53]).

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment / Topic | Start Time | |----------------------------------------------------------|------------| | Introduction & Operation Footage Discussion | 00:29 | | The Prime Minister’s Statement and Political Implications | 01:38 | | Timeline of Preparing for the Operation | 02:23 | | Military & Legal Complexities/Frank Gardiner | 03:44 | | Detailed Breakdown of Operation & Military Assets | 04:59 | | Political Fallout – Defence Spending, Resignations | 05:55 | | Al Khan on Tactics and Delays | 06:27 | | Shadow Fleet Explained | 07:49 | | Oil Sanctions & International Strategy | 08:37 | | Lisa Nandy on Defense Funding Debate | 09:26 | | Cabinet Politics & Leadership Tension | 12:05 | | By-Election, Leadership Contest Speculation | 17:05 | | G7 / Global Security Context | 17:25 | | Listener Feedback, Budget Prioritization | 18:09 | | Defence Policy Options & Constraints | 19:32 | | Iranian Strait of Hormuz Peace Deal Uncertainty | 23:08 | | Social Media Ban Preview | 27:36 | | Scottish Football Recap | 32:53 |

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• Laura Kuenssberg:
  “Such an activity like this is a ratcheting up, isn’t it?” ([04:21])
• Frank Gardiner:
  “It will infuriate the Kremlin. President Putin, I think, will be very angry about this.” ([03:44])
• Al Khan:
  “Fast roping onto the ship, securing it and then taking it into our territorial waters. An amazing operation, excellently prosecuted…” ([06:27])
• Lisa Nandy:
  “We’ve got to significantly increase the amount that we're spending on defence and we've already done that as a government. But… the threat level has changed and we've got to change accordingly.” ([10:52])
• Joe Pike:
  “If this is instituted quite quickly, we could become the next place that ministers are flying across to do their research… But also maybe think, oh, this didn’t quite work in the UK.” ([32:00])
• John Swinney (First Minister, match report):
  “The TARP army are in great voice, a true credit to our country… Scotland will be alike with enthusiasm and joy for the performance of our team.” ([32:53])

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, fast-moving, slightly irreverent—mixing hard analysis with banter.
• Transparent about political backstage drama and candid about the difficulties in policy decision-making and government messaging.
• Regular direct quotes from officials lend authenticity and intimacy.

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Summary Takeaways

• The UK’s bold move to board a shadow fleet tanker signifies both military prowess and deliberate political messaging aimed at both domestic and international audiences.
• Ongoing internal strife within the UK government over defense spending, leadership ambitions, and how to balance budgets against growing threats.
• The wider backdrop features pivotal moments in global diplomacy (Iran-Straits of Hormuz), shifts in domestic tech policy (social media bans), and an ever-present political calendar (by-elections, G7).
• The episode expertly weaves urgent breaking news with insightful context, balanced by lighter cultural moments (Scottish football fervor).

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Transcript

[Paddy O'Connell]

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[Laura Kuenssberg]

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[Paddy O'Connell]

So footage has been released by the Ministry of Defense of an operation to board a shadow Russian oil tanker in the English Channel.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

They're very dramatic images. You can see helicopters flying low in the darkness and then you can see actually with their guns going down the stairs boarding the ship of what happened this morning. And Russia's shadow fleet are essentially tankers that are still moving oil around the world, trying to defy the sanctions in order to keep the Russian war economy that funds the war in Ukraine going. The government said in January that they would look at doing this, but it's significant this morning. It's the first operation of its kind. And those images now will dominate the news, probably for at least for the rest of the day.

[Paddy O'Connell]

So off we go with Sunday's newscast.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Newscast, newscast from the BBC. Humanity's next great voyage begins.

[Al Khan]

We are in the midst of a rupture.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Nostalgia will not bring back the old order.

[Frank Gardiner]

Six, seven.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Yeah, it's supposed to be me.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

As a doctor. Daddy has. Has also a special connotation. Ooh la.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Thinking about it like a panto helped.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Do we play music now or what do we do?

[Paddy O'Connell]

Hello, it's Paddy in the studio.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

It's Laura in the studio and it's

[Joe Pike]

also Joe pike in the studio.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Hello, Joe. It's very nice having you with us again at the weekend.

[Joe Pike]

Hi, Laura.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Hello. So at seven minutes past seven, the Prime Minister posted online and I will just read it because this is a big story. In the early hours of this morning, I directed our armed forces to intercept a shadow fleet oil tanker attempting to pass through the English Channel. This successful operation delivers yet another blow to Russia and reminds those fuelling Putin's war in Ukraine that we will not let them hide. I want to thank those involved, including our armed forces and law enforcement officers who keep this country safe. Now, in and of itself, it is a significant story, but it's kind of really pertinent given that the Prime Minister has been in a giant row about not giving enough money to defence in the last few days.

[Joe Pike]

It's a good example of some progress in particular, as Laura They've been talking about this. We've been talking about this for many months. The legislation came through, I think, in what March, giving armed forces the power to board vessels. But we've had this sort of weird, awkward wait. Al Khanz, the former armed Forces Minister on your programme, seemed to be saying there were a couple of reasons for that. Partly because in some cases, there were other Russian vessels protecting tankers. Secondly, because there were concerns about making sure they had sort of the right legal justification, but also they needed to ensure the right cargo was on the ship to prove it is, you know, part of a shadow fleet. And with those sort of different boxes ticked, it meant that tonight was the night that those marine commandos and all of these, this quite long list of aircraft got involved and apprehended the Smyrtos, previously the Murtos.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Right. Well, it's now on its way to an anchorage in the southeast of England. It represents a more muscular approach by the UK government because other countries have boarded these tankers from the Russian oil fleet, the shadow fleet, which is said to carry 75% of their sanctioned oil. So we had BBC's Frank Gardiner on Radio 4 today, and I asked him if he was braced for this, if he was anticipating this.

[Frank Gardiner]

They've trained for this since January and it wasn't until March that the Prime Minister announced that this is something that was going to be done by. By UK forces. It will infuriate the Kremlin. President Putin, I think, will be very angry about this. And I think the jeopardy here is that what happens when Russia starts escorting these tankers with warships, now, it hasn't got enough to do all the thousands of its ships, but what happens? Are they going to challenge an armed escorted tanker?

[Laura Kuenssberg]

It's really interesting, isn't it, because you can tell from the tone of the Prime Minister's post online that a lot of people in the British government will want to shout about this. They say, look, this is a way of taking the fight to the Russians. It's very visible. They've released the pictures. They didn't have to do that. They obviously want the public to be aware that this is going on. But as Frank was hinting there, this is a ratcheting up. You know, what happens if there was to be another event like this and actually there was a Russian military capability there, guarding, and perhaps they wanted to retaliate in some way. I'm not saying that's going to happen, but such an activity like this is a ratcheting up, isn't it?

[Joe Pike]

And certainly it Seems to be very intense in terms of the capabilities that we use just for this single ship. In terms of the list of stuff that the MOD have given us, they talked about aircraft from the Maritime Air Group, Chinooks, Merlin, MK4 and Wildcats. There was also this P8 aircraft, which is a sort of big surveillance aircraft, normally used to be chasing submarines rather than Shadowfleet ships. And then the HMS Sutherland, a frigate, which is again a submarine hunter, but also the HMS Ledbury, which is a minehunter. And that's, of course, in addition to those Marines you mentioned, guys, but also the specially trained officers from the National Crime Agency. If there are around 500 that are sanctioned out of what we think is maybe 700 plus total ships in the Shadow fleet. I mean, there are a lot of opportunities, perhaps in the coming months to try and intercept them, but that in itself will be very labour intensive. Pretty expensive too, maybe.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Well, Frank said this is an expensive operation and therefore it does lead in to the question of the wider arguments been had in the past few days, including resignations, the Defence Investment Plan and basically put, how much money have we got to do things, including this.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

That's right. And Al Karns, who was one of the ministers who quit this week, was the Armed Forces Minister before he came into politics. He was a Marine. He was then in the Special Boat Service. And he told us this morning there might be more operations like this. And he also explained a little bit about the kind of thing that would have actually gone on while we were

[Al Khan]

sleeping safely last night. There will be Marines and Navy and Air Force personnel boarding helicopters, flying low level over the sea, rearing up before the ship, fast roping onto the ship, securing it and then taking it into our territorial waters. An amazing operation, excellently prosecuted by our Royal Marines and others.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

And how is it the case, though, that this hasn't happened for such a long time? Because the government made quite a lot of noise about saying, look, we will do this. There are these ships moving through the Channel, seemingly quite regularly, helping to finance Putin's war in Ukraine. So why hasn't it happened until today?

[Al Khan]

So, first of all, we have a Russian, or we had a Russian frigate in the Channel protecting some of those ships coming through. And secondly, it was about hitting the right parameters to make sure that everything from legal to the cargo met the requirements for boarding. We've actually helped lots of other nations do these boardings, America, France and others. And I think now that the first one has happened, we're probably going to see more, should the opportunities present themselves.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

It's interesting, isn't it, because that does then mean an uptick in how confrontational the UK is appearing to be against this Shadow fleet, which has been such an important part of Russia being able to have the cash to pay for drones, to. To pay for bullets, to pay the wages of soldiers in Ukraine. And, you know, although there has been a very complicated and extensive sort of web of sanctions, the Shadow Fleet has shown us repeatedly since the war began in 2022, that Russia's been able to get around it.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Yes, it's a way of evading the sanctions. This one was. Was flagged in the Cameroon. Is it?

[Joe Pike]

It was, and it has changed flag twice in the last 18 months and it's changed its name wants.

[Paddy O'Connell]

So using these shadowy tactics. It's got the name the Shadow Fleet. It's a reminder that Russia operates in the space between war and peace, as well as when it's at war. It's also testing the boundaries of what war is and what peace is in the. On our continent.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

If you haven't followed this really closely, essentially what Russia has been doing, ships that are essentially registered as being Russian are not allowed to move freely, set with commercial goods. What we've seen develop in the last few years is they change the sort of the home of these ships that, where they're registered, put them under a different country's flag and get round it that way.

[Joe Pike]

And presumably part of the wider strategy from the UK and France and Germany and the States, a week after President zelenskyy visited number 10 is trying to damage the Russian economy as much as possible, bolster the Ukrainian armed forces as much as possible in advance of any peace talks, because everything we heard from the E3, the French president, the German chancellor, UK Prime Minister, plus President Zelenskyy this time last week was about preparing the ground for Ukraine being in the best possible position for any peace negotiations.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Now, Lisa Nandi was speaking for the government on your sofa.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

She was.

[Paddy O'Connell]

So I'm imagining I couldn't watch because I was otherwise engaged, but I imagine you said, where's the money?

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yes, So I asked her where the money was and she was down the line from Salford. Actually, technically, I want to have a bit of BBCA accuracy. She wasn't technically on the sofa, even though, metaphorically she was in one of our chairs this morning. So the question for the government this weekend, after John Healey's sensational resignation, were they going to be able to find any more money or not? And she. I was actually quite surprised by how much she indicated that there would be more money coming. Just for context, John Healey was told on Friday night and then again on Thursday morning by Downing street that the Prime Minister's decision was final, there would be no money. Brick wall, bang head, he resigns this morning. Lisa Nandy was saying that since then, including discussions on Friday, Cabinet ministers have been going back through their budgets at the Prime Minister's request, looking for more cash. There's not a final decision on how much yet, but she was very clear that there is going to be some more money.

[Narrator (Good Bad Billionaire Promo)]

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YouTube megastar MrBeast and former Facebook executive

Sheryl Sandberg all have in common?

They're all being discussed in the new season of Good Bad Billionaire, the podcast which explores the lives and fortunes of the world's super rich.

That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Listen now.

[Narrator (Good Bad Billionaire Promo)]

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[Laura Kuenssberg]

for defence.

[Lisa Nandy]

Al put it really well in his resignation letter. We've got to transform the way that we do defence spending to make sure that what we're spending is fit for the threats that we face now and in the future, not just the threats that we faced in the past. We've got to significantly increase the amount that we're spending on defence and we've already done that as a government. But since we published that strategic Defence Review last year and reach the levels of funding that they had recommended, the threat level has changed and we've got to change accordingly. And finally, we've also got to make sure that we're investing in our broader national resilience. The sort of things that Al referenced in the letter, like economic security, like strong communities, strong public services, young people who have hope that the future on offer is going to be worth working for and fighting for. And those things all have to be done at once. So although I really respect John, he is a fantastic colleague and I know he won't have taken this decision lightly, the challenge still remains that we have got to meet this moment and do all three of those things.

[Paddy O'Connell]

It's interesting to hear Government Secretary of State saying that, quoting the resignation.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

I know, wasn't it? Yeah, she said. I agree with Al, or as Al has said actually on several occasions, but we are in quite a surreal place at the moment in politics. I mean, if we just wind out for a minute. Most people in Parliament in the Labour Party think that Keir Starmer is not going to be Prime Minister for very much longer. There is a by election on Thursday where the guy who wants to replace him is trying to win so that he can come back to number 10. It is possible that in the next five days the Prime Minister's fate is going to be sealed. So all of these conversations are frankly a bit weird at this moment because it's just as pertinent a question to say, and I'm not predicting what's going to happen on Thursday, no. But it's just as pertinent to say, would Andy Burnham find another 10 billion quid for defense? And allies of John Healey, I have to say, are quite cross about this because Lisa and Andy, in that rather convoluted answer, and then did accept later that more money would be on the way. But allies of Healy have told me that they're quite frustrated. They point out, and I quote, more money is coming, but only as a result of Healy resigning. This is another unbeliev u turn.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Is there a double speak at the moment by everyone involved in frontline politics for Labour? You've got to signal that you could be friends with everybody, you know, because you. Because Lisa Nunn is a well known loyalist to Keir Starmer and yet at the same time she's flashed the headlights at Al Khan's, has just left the government.

[Joe Pike]

Yeah. And she represents Andy Burnham as well. She represents Wigan and as you know, because you've been there this week, the Makefield constituency is sort of on the outskirts of Wigan and she is, you know, she has historically been close to Andy Burnham. What you certainly have, and she was demonstrating that today is a lot of ministers thinking about their own self interest. Of course, politics and government is a team sport, but also individual ambition is of course central to it. And there are ministers who are open this week about, oh, I'm off up to make a field. Of course they're going to hand out some leaflets and knock on some doors, but I'm going to try and get a job or keep a job. And there are definitely people thinking about their own positions in government now, especially as it seems possible there is a change of person in the top and maybe a change of the team below them.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Not to interrupt, but just to ask you more about that. So allies of John Healey are on the war path again.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yes. So as soon as we came off air, I picked up my phone and at 1 minutes past 10 there's a message from an ally of John Healey being frustrated and cross.

[Paddy O'Connell]

But hasn't he. Hasn't he already done his thing? Isn't what. So what?

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Well, what more could he do? Who knows? He hasn't given an interview yet. Just saying, there's an empty chair in the studio anytime you fancy it. Mr. Haley.

[Joe Pike]

Could be a resignation statement.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

It might be a resignation speech in the comments this week. Right. So, you know, of course, John Haley is somebody who is seen as incredibly loyal, but he's also somebody who has been incredibly frustrated and cross about where government has got to. It's not necessarily the case that he has caused all the damage that he could. I don't think he's the kind of character who's going to try and go around and take a wrecking ball to everything. But also, we shouldn't underestimate how big a deal it is for a Defense Secretary to resign. I mean, it is massive, this. It hardly ever happens.

[Joe Pike]

And when it happens, it happens around scandals.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Correct.

[Joe Pike]

It doesn't happen around principle.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

That's right. So you've got to go back to Michael Heseltine in 1986, storming out over Westland for the last time that a Defense Secretary resigned over a kind of a terrible difference of opinion, rather than having to resign because something went wrong and it was a bit embarrassing. It's a really big deal. And, you know, when the news moves so fast. Now, we should underline, I think, to newscasters how significant Healy quitting or wars in terms of Starmer's authority, his credibility. I think number 10 will be. I don't want to sound cynical, but I think they'd be delighted to have been able to make this announcement about the Shadow fleet being stormed this morning. But that doesn't take away from the fact that Helio has put a pretty big hole in one of Starmer's last sort of protecting flanks, to use all sorts of, you know, terrible military metaphors in a slightly cringeworthy way. And at this point, you know, Starmer is still determined to fight on. I was told intriguingly last night, and it's telling that people are telling that people are telling journalists this. Allies of Starmer told me that he has prepared a company and a bank account in order to be ready to fight a leadership contest. Wow, that might sound weird to newscasters, but that's what they have to do. They have to have a sort of an outfit where you can raise money, have money in order to spend it. So I couldn't find out company's house last night. I was like, having a bit of a look. I was thinking, it's probably not Keir Starmer for later, because that might be a bit of a giveaway. But he still at this point is wanting it to be known that he plans to fight a contest. But you know that little nugget. Nugget tells you actually where things are at and as you say, Patty is a bit of a double speak. I'm not saying they're all lying.

[Paddy O'Connell]

No, no, no, no.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

We're in this weird, weird, weird, weird world.

[Paddy O'Connell]

It's. Read the code. Yeah. Let's go back to make a field. There are other candidates standing. A full list is on the website, including Robert Kenyon of Reform uk. But it's to do with the timing, isn't it? Everything that happens now is happening on the clock of the by election. So it's not just strange things happening, it's strange things happening at the time they're happening.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

That's right. And also the Prime Minister's about to go to G7. Where who's going to be there? Donald Trump. Donald Trump has been regularly embarrassing Keir Starmer over what? Oh, defense spending. So might there be a kind of mind melt moment where Trump is upbraiding Keir Starmer in front of the cameras? Possibly. Where Street Sing is making a big speech on Tuesday, Somebody else who wants the job, could that be another kind of big moment? Possibly. There's then the by election on Thursday and you know, the next week could be absolutely enormous. You know, this might be the week where we go actually, as someone suggested to me on Friday, Healey's resignation was, quote, the last nail.

[Paddy O'Connell]

So let's just turn to how newscasters are digesting all of this. And a Brooke in Christchurch says, hi NC team. A minor but really irritating government tone deafness. Read the constraints on defense spending is Today's announcement of 4.5 billion over the next five years on cycling and walking in cities. Possibly small beer in the scheme of things, but surely of much lower priority than defence. Thank you for your valuable work. So this is about how to spend money which you don't really have, and where the priorities are of any government or any new administration that might be

[Joe Pike]

formed and what you're going to cut. And I mean, Laura highlighted this on her show today where Streeting has spoken about these choices and this investment in cycling and walking. And Lisa Nandi hit back. Well, you know, West Streeting as health sector was encouraging public health interventions that would take the stress off the nhs. What also is interesting in terms of what you do cut today is you pressed Al Khan's on what he would cut to pay for defence and he had this sort of snazzy line about we need to take. We need less handouts and more hand ups, but didn't really have the detail. And ultimately the Conservatives is why you questioned James Cartlidge, Defence Secretary. Didn't have a, a full list of things to cut that would allow, allow more spending on things that the Conservative think are important. And it's one of those questions of our age. You can't have it all.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

It's very tough. It's very tough. And what's interesting though to me about some of this is that other countries are moving quite quickly ahead with looking at different ways of funding defense precisely for that reason. And even though the UK has been involved in some of those discussions, they've talked to the Canadians about it, they've been talking to the polls about it, they haven't moved quickly enough in order to be able to say, yes, that's where we're going to get the money from. And other countries have. And you know, people in labor have said to me, that's the thing that's really frustrating because Keir Starmer could take a big swing here and say, look, this is a huge moment. He says that he could say, this is a moment of real danger. Yes, he says that. So he could therefore say, and so I am going to commit to this new way of doing defense. We're going to do it this way. We're going to do it. We're going to do it with. Yeah, like the. Yep. Defense bonds that the Lib Dems want. And there are people, senior people in labor who go, it's maddening because if we were braver and quicker, we could have solved this problem. Also others would say, what you really need to do is have a good hard look at what going is going on on the MoD. Why are they spending money on 23 helicopters? Why are they spending money on building submarines that are you. Don't you. Essential warfare has changed so much that there's a different way of finding lots of money, which is looking at things that the mod is currently doing and saying we're not going to need them because the world's completely changed. But none of it's easy. My goodness.

[Joe Pike]

Less than three days after John Healey's resignation, we're now in a situation where a cabinet minister has admitted, oh, no, we are trying to look for more cash. The current settlement that Keir Starmer said we couldn't go beyond is now being reopened and it seems to be a, an acceptance that it's. That what was completely correct on what Thursday morning is now unsustainable.

[Paddy O'Connell]

I Mean, you almost get the impression.

[Joe Pike]

Bizarre, isn't it?

[Paddy O'Connell]

Yeah. But it's like if they knew then what they know now.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yes.

[Paddy O'Connell]

If you imagine how this labor government began, you can imagine Keir Starmer, everything he's Learned in the 2 years, take it back. And how, how, how he would have approached things.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yeah.

[Paddy O'Connell]

On day one with a 400, whatever it is, the massive majority million. Yeah. And he's now, he's sort of getting to grips with what muscular prime ministerial action looks like overnight by authorizing fast roping in the channel, bringing in cooperative cooperations with Royal Marines. And the French were also involved.

[Joe Pike]

And destroying a camera was there. I thought that was interesting. It wasn't body cam footage, it wasn't grainy footage. It looked like a very high quality high definition camera that shows that this is a message, I suppose, not just for voters in the UK but for, well, maybe for Donald Trump, but maybe more Vladimir Putin. And they want the message of what happened last night to get out. And the fact that what, I don't know, three, four hours after that all sort of wrapped up. The video is out.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yeah.

[Joe Pike]

I mean, it says something about the sort of media operation it does.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

I was very grateful it was available for 9:59. So we were able to show it just at the end of the program.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Right. Well, look, that's a lot of what's happened in the journalism so far today, but I wonder if we should now turn to looking ahead.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yes.

[Paddy O'Connell]

One of the big ways we all went to bed last night was knowing that there would be two issues that would happen overnight. One was the Scotland game against Haiti.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Hooray.

[Paddy O'Connell]

And the other was that we kept being told that Tehran and Washington, that Iran and the United States working with Pakistan, would sign a memorandum of understanding which would bring peace to Iran and the Strait of Hormuz would reopen again.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

And it is one minute past 11 on Sunday morning and we do not yet have news on that today. So shock, horror. There have been conflicting messages from the White House and Tehran. Donald Trump said, as you hinted at Paddy on his online forum Troth Social, that the deal would be signed today and immediately. The Strait of Hormuz would be open to all sorts of. But the Iranian Foreign Ministry had said we'll have to wait and see about the exact date and it will not be tomorrow. So look, we've got conflicting messages. We're having this conversation at 11 in the morning. But just remember also why this matters so much. So Darren Jones, the Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister, do you remember a Few weeks ago, he said, even after peace is agreed, it will be at least eight months before things return to normal. And what we're talking about there are the oil price, so therefore, the price of fertilizer, the price, therefore, of food, the price of jet fuel, the price of all these other things on which we rely. So even if this is signed today, and it happens as Trump predicted, the hangover from this conflict is still going to be with us for a long time. And we saw this week, didn't we, with those economic figures that showed actually the economy going the wrong way as the impact of that conflict closing the Straits of Hormuz is starting to be felt.

[Joe Pike]

And in terms of the choreography, presumably Donald Trump wants to get this all sorted before he travels to Evian for mineral water and diplomacy at the G7. He does want those three days for him to look like he has achieved something. Yeah, remarkable.

[Paddy O'Connell]

He's the sort of person as well, who likes to time things personally. So it's his 80th birthday and he's having sort of all sorts of celebrations.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Including a cage fight.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Well, of course.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

I mean, who wouldn't?

[Paddy O'Connell]

I mean, what a way to. I think back to my many birthdays.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

You've never been in a cage?

[Paddy O'Connell]

No, I've never been in a cage.

[Joe Pike]

Give it time.

[Paddy O'Connell]

But the thing is that he. He to time a big announcement on his birthday is the way he rolls, isn't it?

[Joe Pike]

Although we should say this only started because of Donald Trump. He's not solving somebody else's conflict. It's his own, its own conflict. And the problems we're all facing in terms of our diesel and petrol prices.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Well, but they also say we should have. We should have tackled this before. Of course, who wants Iran to have a nuclear bomb? That's how the argument goes, of course.

[Joe Pike]

And one of his former national security advisers, John Bolton, thinks he should have gone further and should go further now to ensure that Iran is in a far weaker position. However, we can't characterize him as solving some intractable peace, intractable sort of problem on the world stage. This is something that he did start himself.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yes. And if he hails a peace deal as a victory for himself, it is a deal to end a conflict that he and Benjamin Netanyahu began. The reasons, as you say, Paddy, there were people who would argue is absolutely the right thing to do, but this conflict was instigated by them. And if it ends up that actually Iran has got a good deal over the Strait of Hormuz, there have been suggestions that they might be able to, you know, set up some kind of giant floating tol booth metaphorically and actually charge people to use it. That wasn't the case before. So both sides, we will see, we'll try and spin it and we'll have to look carefully at the deal if it emerges to be able to make a kind of assessment of actually who has, you know, quote unquote won if in or and who has quote unquote lost.

[Joe Pike]

And let's remember day one when there was that pre recorded Trump statement, I think from Mar a lag. He was wearing a cap and he spoke about the start of this operation and he was talking about regime change as being the big aim. He was talking about getting the Iranian people to rise up. This is your chance. You need to rise up in the streets. None of what he asked for or wanted to happen a few months ago seems to have come to pass.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Indeed, there's a more hard line. The younger generation of the regime who've replaced the ones who've been killed seem to be perhaps even more hardline. And let's not forget also the terrible repression of people who try to protest against the regime who live in Iran. And that that regime killed thousands of their own people on the streets a few months ago.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Okay, so it's my job to be the person who's whipping this along. I don't know why. It's not really. I don't know why I'm assuming discipline such your thing. No, no. But we wanted to just mark the news card for the possibility of a social media ban for under 16 year olds.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yes.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Which is coming.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yes. I mean, I would bet a fiver on it. We're expecting, I think actually the Prime Minister's gonna pop up tomorrow morning to try maximum impact with this announcement. What we expect. And it's not completely confirmed, but we've got all sorts of indications and including Lisa and Andy didn't really shy away from this at all on the telly this morning. What I expect is that there will be a social media ban for under 16s on quite a few of the big platforms. So your Tik Tok, Snapchat, however, some platforms I think will be exempt. I think there's also going to be a kind of curfew or time limit also for teenagers. There's a huge debate though about whether or not this is really effective, if it will, if these are the right kinds of measures. The evidence from the ban in Australia has been mixed. There's a lot of evidence of kids being able to get Round it. What Lisa Nandy said to us this morning is what that what the ban could institute is kind of cultural change. So you make it kind of, you know, socially unacceptable. Not a thing that young teenagers should be doing. But there are really strong views on this and campaigners also are split on this. But there are quite a few people, including Ian Russell, who's been one of the leading campaigners on this for years for all the wrong reasons because his daughter took her own life, having been bombarded with distressing material online. But Ian told us yesterday he's really angry because he suspects that the Prime Minister is doing this for political reasons, which of course Downing street denies, and that they're rushing towards, towards a sort of blanket ban rather than something tougher, more sophisticated and more nuanced. So we'll see how this all evolves tomorrow.

[Paddy O'Connell]

And also with respect to in Russell, who's been on newscast with, with us, the polls say that the public are in favor of, of these many very strongly. Many families listening, many parents listening and, you know, older teenagers listening will be aware of the absolute tsunami of material that can go the way of under 16 year olds.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

That's right. And I think, you know what ministers supportive of this most certainly, what opposition parties where the Tories have been campaigning on this for a long time, what some other parents would say and what some different campaigners say and some of the teaching unions are on board for this, which is also an interesting angle, is that, you know, if you have a 13 year old saying, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, I want to be on Snapchat because all my mates are on it. If as a parent you're able to say no because it's illegal, it's a very different conversation saying no because I think it's bad for you, you know. And that is the cultural change the supporters of a ban often point to. It's not necessarily that it will be perfect because, okay, 17 year olds sometimes are able to buy cider, but having a cultural expectation that it is not something that's appropriate for younger teenagers would be seen by many people as a very strong message. But I'm going to be very interested to see though the fine detail of this announcement tomorrow.

[Joe Pike]

And there are certainly ministers who concede that maybe it won't work. And if you look at Australia, you know, the sort of results are mixed. A lot of young people have VPNs to get around the restrictions. But there are ministers not too far from this policy area who sort of admit and concede that there is a real political advantage to be looking like you're acting to be empathizing with the difficult situation that parents are in and just doing something. Now, Downing street, of course, deny this is really purely about that, but the pressure has been building and I suppose the characterisation of people around Keir Starmer is actually that it's him meeting bereaved parents that has really sort of hardened his instincts ahead of whatever he.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Yeah, he was against it. Didn't agree with this, you know, till relatively recently, Downing street were quite resistant to this. And that said, some of the ideas, including the idea of a curfew, have been knocking around for ages. And part of the problem here, but campaigners would tell you is that the law as it exists, being enforced by Ofcom, what campaigners would say is it's not really being enforced effectively at all and the tech platforms don't really listen. Ofcom, of course, would dispute that, but I think whatever the details of what were announced tomorrow, actually, it might be very bumpy. I think it wouldn't be surprising if the tech companies ended up taking government to court or trying to do a judicial review on this process.

[Joe Pike]

Australia was test case number one and we could be a sort of the next petri dish, because in countries across capitals, across the world, everyone has been looking at Australia. Lots of other governments are considering what they do. And if this is instituted quite quickly, we could become the next place that ministers are flying across to to do their research. But also maybe think, oh, this didn't. Didn't quite work in the uk. Maybe we'll avoid the way that Keir Starmer's team have done it.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

We will see.

[Paddy O'Connell]

We're on our way now with the question of the hour. Did you watch the football?

[Laura Kuenssberg]

No, because I was trying to sleep. Yes, but I did watch it well, I watched the clips when I woke up.

[Paddy O'Connell]

And did you have a message from anyone famous?

[Laura Kuenssberg]

John Swinney became our match reporter. So the First Minister of Scotland very kindly agreed to send us his own match report after the final whistle. And I have to say, I think he was more enthusiastic than I've ever seen him.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Shall we have a listen?

[John Swinney]

What a night to be in Boston to see Scotland won against Haiti and get this World cup campaign off to a flying start. The TARP army are in great voice. They've been out in Boston, a true credit to our country. And back home, Scotland will be alike with enthusiasm and joy for the performance of our team. So let's take it to Maloco on Friday and to Andy Robertson. And to Steve Clark, our warmest lights we couldn't promote. Proud of you for the performance tonight.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Well, if politics doesn't work out, maybe he's got a career in sports reporting ahead of him.

[Joe Pike]

He's got the voice for it, hasn't he? Commentary box well, look, Hooray.

[Paddy O'Connell]

We say to Scott's family.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

We do.

[Paddy O'Connell]

Thank you very much for joining Newscast today and goodbye.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Goodbye. Bye Bye Newscast Newscast from the BBC.

[Chris Mason]

Thank you so much for making it to the end of Newscast. You clearly copyright Chris Mason Ooze Stamina. Can I gently encourage you to subscribe to us on BBC Sounds? Don't forget, you can email us anytime. It's newscastbc.co.uk and if you would like to join our Discord community to talk about everything newscast related, there is a link in the description of this podcast. And don't be scared. It's super easy to click on it and then get set up. Or you can WhatsApp us on 033-01-239480 and I promise you we read and listen to every single message. Thanks for listening to this podcast.

[Laura Kuenssberg]

Bye.

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