The Week: How Did Labour Get Here And Where Do They Go Now?

Summary

Newscast — The Week: How Did Labour Get Here And Where Do They Go Now?

BBC Newscast | May 15, 2026
Host: Adam Fleming
Guests:

• Sienna Rodgers (Deputy Editor, The House magazine)
• Alva Ray (Political Editor, New Statesman)

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Episode Overview

This episode unpacks the dramatic events unfolding within Britain’s Labour Party amidst rapid political change—a week that saw a major cabinet shake-up, mounting leadership challenges, and ongoing speculation around Labour’s future. Adam Fleming, Sienna Rodgers, and Alva Ray break down the high-stakes maneuvering post-local election, Andy Burnham’s high-profile return, and Keir Starmer’s embattled hold on power. The episode illuminates the party’s internal dynamics, key personalities like Wes Streeting, Angela Rayner, and surprise players (Al Carnes, Ed Miliband), and analyzes scenarios for the Labour leadership and the nation’s direction.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Week’s Defining Moments

• Andy Burnham’s Comeback
  • The group cites Burnham securing a by-election seat as the most significant event, marking a turning point in Labour’s internal struggles.
    • “Everything up to that point was a little bit of a red herring... the only thing that really, really shifted the dial and led us into a whole new world was that everything else was kind of a build up to that.” — Adam Fleming (04:12)
• Loss of Party Discipline
  • Sienna describes real-time tension as news broke that Burnham wouldn't be blocked from standing, exemplifying the draining power from Starmer.
    • “Just the fact that they had given in so quickly without having the big fight... Oh, my God, this is really happening.” — Sienna Rodgers (05:05)
• Resignations and Shifting Allegiances
  • Junior ministers (PPSs) resigning en masse pointed to serious internal strife.
    • “When a few PPSs resigned in quick succession, that really felt like a sign... such a clear signal for people who follow politics closely that something was really happening.” — Alva Ray (06:28)
  • Jess Phillips’ resignation cited as another milestone accelerating the crisis (06:55).

2. Keir Starmer’s Position and Tactics

• Starmer’s Defiance
  • Despite escalating pressure, Starmer remained, digging in as ministers and supporters expected imminent resignation.
    • “He’s just dug in and he’s still digging in at time of recording… that has been quite extraordinary.” — Alva Ray (08:52)
• Control over Party Process
  • Starmer’s growing ability to manage party bureaucracy and meeting dynamics noted, despite previous criticisms (08:34).
• Splitting Leadership Processes
  • Resignations (notably Wes Streeting’s) did not trigger immediate leadership contests but signaled intent (09:58–10:07).

3. Andy Burnham: Coronation or Contest?

• Coronation Hypothesis
  • If Burnham wins the Makerfield by-election and enters Parliament, other contenders might accept a “backroom deal” for a swift transition.
    • “An option available to them is just stickle that, do backroom deals... basically just have a Burnham coronation.” — Sienna Rodgers (13:13)
    • Labour’s contest processes are slow; a coronation could spare the country prolonged uncertainty.
• Wes Streeting’s Calculus
  • Streeting may run to build profile (“no second prize, but there is a great job” — 14:51).
  • Burnham’s previous failed leadership bids show it’s "not sewn up" despite his current momentum (15:26).

4. Other Leadership Scenarios and Notable Figures

• Wes Streeting
  • Hasn’t formally launched a contest but is a central figure, with allies making moves that signal seriousness (07:29, 34:00).
  • Expected to articulate his critique and pitch at the upcoming Progress Conference (33:35).
• Ed Miliband
  • Senior soft left MPs privately prefer him as “Plan B.” He is influential policy-wise, possibly seeking Chancellorship (20:07–23:41).
    • “He is less set on being leader and more set on providing the ideas... as Keir Starmer has faltered, you can see that he ends up absorbing more and more of the Ed Miliband view of the world…” — Alva Ray (21:29)
• Al Carnes
  • Defense minister and ex-Army, briefly considered as a wildcard candidate due to his non-Labour background (24:46–28:26).
    • “Some people in the Labour Party just think this is completely unserious and ridiculous, that he's been an MP for about two minutes...” — Alva Ray (25:55)
• Angela Rayner
  • Cleared by HMRC of tax issues (29:01). Carefully positioning herself for influence—supporting Burnham but not ruling out a run herself (29:13–30:48).
• Kemi Badenoch (Conservatives)
  • Noted for an impactful Commons speech and being lauded by Nicki Minaj (!), but Conservative losses and possible tone-deaf messaging go under-discussed due to Labour drama (31:38–32:51).

5. Labour Party’s Psychology and Future

• Protracted Coup
  • Starmer’s power is seen as “ebbing away in slow motion”—a unique, drawn-out leadership challenge (12:02).
• Speculation on Parallel Histories
  • Counterfactuals explored: would events have unfolded differently without Catherine West triggering the leadership challenge? (18:02–19:56)
• Market & Public Reaction
  • Political unrest already impacting financial markets; the need for a sense of government stability emphasized (23:41).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

The Burnham Moment — Power Shifts

• “The only thing that really, really shifted the dial and led us into a whole new world was that everything else was kind of a build up to that.”
  — Adam Fleming (04:12)

Live-breaking Tension

• “The moment for me… was when I was live on LBC and the news came in that they would not be blocking Burnham... I was like, 'Oh my God, this is really happening.'”
  — Sienna Rodgers (05:05)

Loss of Party Discipline

• “I don't think there are any rules anymore. No, and there aren't. You know, there's no discipline if you challenge Keir Starmer's authority...”
  — Alva Ray (16:37)

Starmer’s Psychology

• “I think the psychology of Keir Starmer right now is one of the most interesting things. He is still the Prime Minister. It's not completely guaranteed that Andy Burnham would win in Makerfield and then where would the Labour Party be? I think most of them can't bear to think about that.”
  — Alva Ray (12:35)

Future of Labour Leadership

• “Even if he [Wes Streeting] fails the first time around, he's young, it would be his first try. Fair enough. He'd be very well placed to do it second time round, especially if he's seen as a bit of an underdog.”
  — Adam Fleming (16:12)

The Case for Al Carnes

• “He is sort of right wing coded, basically... Nigel Farage wouldn't know what to do with him and he just would have a sort of fresh approach and a kind of charisma and that's the case for him. But Sienna has outlined the case against. He's definitely seen as a real dark horse, outside chance.”
  — Alva Ray (26:30)

Angela Rayner’s Tactics

• “She was making it really clear that she was considering a leadership base. But... after those results came in, she issued a statement that killed any speculation... She sort of signaled that she'd probably row in behind Andy Burnham, but also that she hasn't completely ruled out her leadership bid.”
  — Alva Ray (30:48)

Comedic Moment

• “She got the backing of Nicki Minaj, singer and rapper.”
  — Adam Fleming (32:44)
• “Did she?”
  — Alva Ray (32:47)
• “Yes.”
  — Adam Fleming (32:47)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:00: Sienna & Alva on working through the chaos of the week
• 04:00–05:20: Most pivotal moments—the Burnham by-election news
• 06:16: Starmer’s Monday speech & rising incivility at Labour meetings
• 07:29: Wes Streeting’s maneuvering and resignations as signs of seriousness
• 08:34: Starmer's meeting management and the value of bureaucratic control
• 08:52: Starmer’s unexpected resilience and the mood among supporters
• 13:13: The “coronation” scenario for Andy Burnham and leadership transition
• 15:26: Burnham’s track record and why it's not a done deal
• 18:02: Counterfactuals: What triggered this week’s events?
• 20:07: Ed Miliband’s place in the soft left and as an idea-generator
• 24:46: The Al Carnes hypothesis: why some consider him, and skepticism
• 29:01: Angela Rayner’s return and strategic moves
• 31:38: Kemi Badenoch’s standout week in Parliament and the Tory angle
• 33:35: Wes Streeting expected to outline his case at the Progress Conference

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Conclusion

This urgent, insight-packed episode illustrates a Labour Party on the edge. The hosts and guests chart the collapse of party discipline, explore how Andy Burnham’s route back to Westminster has reshaped leadership possibilities, and debate whether Labour is heading for a coronation, contest, or further chaos. Through sharp political analysis, behind-the-scenes detail, and sharp quotes, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the tactics, personalities, and possible futures for Labour — setting the stage for a pivotal few weeks for British politics.

Transcript

[A]

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[A]

Hello, this is the episode of Newscast where we recap the news of the week, but given that the news of the week has been moving so quickly this week we've had to record it on a Friday rather than on Thursday night. So it's going to be an extremely interesting couple of weeks in the news as we build up to the Makerfield by election and the Labour Leadership challenge that we thought might happen this week but might happen in future months. So make sure you are subscribed to Newscast so you never miss a single segment. Second of it Just a reminder. This week, along with all the political drama, we revealed Faisal Islam's accidental Christmas socks, a product of him moving house this week. And we also revealed Henry Zafman's political analysis which was grounded in Spice Girls lore. Newscast is the only daily news podcast on any broadcaster I think where you would get that combination. So press subscribe on BBC Sounds and it will be your passport to episodes of of Newscast like this Newscast Newscast from the BBC.

[D]

Humanity's next great voyage begins.

[A]

We are in the midst of a rupture.

[B]

Nostalgia will not bring back the old order.

[A]

67 yeah, it's supposed to be me as a doctor Daddy has.

[D]

Has also a special connotation. Ooh la la.

[A]

Thinking about it like a panto helped. Do we play music now or what do we do? Hello, it's Adam in the newscast studio and we're joined by some friends of the podcast. This Friday, Sienna Rogers is deputy editor of the House magazine. Hello.

[E]

Hello.

[A]

Busy week to be in the house?

[E]

Yes, very, very busy. We've had to produce a magazine that really isn't properly a current affairs magazine, while keeping up with all the live news is basically impossible.

[A]

And how have you done that?

[E]

Yeah, not much sleep or. Or doing anything but work.

[A]

Well, congratulations for getting it. What is it? Hot off the press. That just seems like something you'd say in a film rather than what actual journalists say anyway. And also here's Alvar Ray, political editor of the New Statesman. Hello, Alva.

[D]

Hello.

[A]

Lots of interesting things in the New Statesman this week, including Angela Rayner's pre Tough Mudder breakfast menu.

[D]

Yes. I really wanted to write before her Tough Mudder that that was her plan for the weekend as the results came in, because we knew that everyone would be eagerly watching what Angela Rayner was doing on the days after those bad results. And she was actually just knee deep in mud running. Running a race for charity. But then we got her partner Sam Tarry to write his Diary of the Week, which is a scream. Everyone has to read it. And we've also got Prince Harry in the magazine this week and Al Karn's possible leadership contender. So that's the holy trinity you weren't expecting of Alcorn's Prince Harry and Sam Tarry.

[A]

Yeah. And a very good advert for your magazine. We'll now have to go around all the other magazines that are available on the newsstands. People's Friends, Sudoku World. Right. Let's not do a whole chronology TikTok of the week. Cause we'll be here for hours and hours and hours. But is there a moment that sort of really stands out for you, that just sort of really crystallizes what's going on or is a kind of crucial thing for what's going to happen next? And to give you some thinking time, I think for me it was on Thursday evening. Obviously the Burnham News and him getting a seat was. Was huge. But it made me realize that everything up to that point was a little bit of a red herring. Not because it didn't matter, it was important stuff. But the only thing that really, really shifted the dial and led us into a whole new world was that everything Else was kind of a build up to that.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

It was constantly calling people, are you doing it? Are you going to do it? Are you gonna do the announcement that you said, told me last night that you were going to do today, you know, that sort of thing. I think the moment for me that really got my, like, heart going, to be honest. That sounds weird, but really got my pulse racing, was when I was live on LBC and the news came in that they would not be blocking Burnham. Now, that was kind of obvious because it was clear they didn't have the capital to block him again. But just the fact that they had given in so quickly without having the big fight and confirmed it. And then I was like, oh, my God, this is really happening.

[A]

Revealing that power had drained away.

[E]

And this is. This is over. This is. Yeah, yeah.

[D]

Alva, am I allowed to pick a couple? Okay, so first one was Keir Starmer's speech on Monday. I was looking through photos of the week on my phone. That was how the week began, with Keir Starmer fighting for his political career. And honestly, I don't know if you were. If you were there, Sienna, but I honestly sort of felt nervous on his behalf, like, absorbing. Not that I have any skin in that game, but just sort of imagining how he would be feeling and how high the stakes were. And during it, some journalists asked questions about whether he would allow Andy Burnham to come back. And people right behind me started heckling. And I spoke to them afterwards. Labour councillors, former Labour councillors, and just the strength of. Was so acute. It just felt like it was going to be a massive week. And just the expressions of the Lucy Pyle sitting in the front row.

[A]

And also Starmer, to his credit, defended the journalists for asking those questions and told the people to hecklers to pipe down.

[D]

And they actually told me that they had been told not to heckle, but they just couldn't help themselves.

[A]

Passions were running so high.

[D]

Passions were running high. But then I think also it was when PPSs, so the most junior ministerial rank or the most junior rung of the government ladder, when a few PPSs resigned in quick succession, that really felt like a sign that, I mean, a lot of them allied to Wes Streeting. It was just such a clear signal for people who follow politics closely that something was really happening. And then third moment was, I mean,

[A]

Sienna, you're going for three.

[D]

Sorry, I know. Cheating. Sienna mentioned the trials of writing a magazine. With everything moving so quickly, I went way beyond my deadline this week. And eventually I thought, right, I'm turning my phone off or turning it on silent, I'm just gonna start writing. And I got about 50 when someone from number 10 rang and said, are you covering Jess Phillips? Because she had just resigned. And then I thought, okay, I'm going to actually just have to follow this for longer. So just huge moments. But I think really it was more of these moments where you could see Wes streaking seriousness, the moves from his allies. Even though he hasn't formally launched a leadership challenge this week, no one doubts the seriousness of his intent.

[A]

Well, I'm going to have a bonus moment as well. Now, that turned out to be quite significant, which was Peter Kyle, the business secretary, coming out of that cabinet meeting where Starmer hadn't allowed any discussion of his leadership, saying he was basically supporting the Prime Minister carrying on at that point. And then Henry Zeppelin very quickly on the news channel made the point, oh, that's significant because he is best political powers of where Streeting. But I didn't quite realize that that meant that Wes Streeting's position at the end of this week was going to be a little bit more nuanced than we might have thought. And we. I hadn't realized you could resign and not trigger a leadership challenge at the same time, which is what he ended up doing.

[E]

Yeah, splitting up those decisions. That reminds me that I found the. Maybe the funniest moment of the week for me. I don't know why this really tickled me, but was Kier telling everyone at the beginning of the meeting, you're not allowed to discuss leadership, etc. And then just so that Jenny Chapman can come out at the end and be like, nobody raised any concerns about

[A]

his leadership and she was telling the truth.

[E]

Yes, true. But there is an explanation for that.

[A]

No, but that's the thing about, about the Labour Party and power in the Labour Party, because as we've learned, knowing the processes and the bureaucracy and be able to control a meeting so that it flows in your direction is quite an important skill. And actually skills that Starmer was accused of not having for a long time. It turns out he's sort of got them a bit.

[D]

Yeah. And I'm. I'm actually really pleased that I think I've said this on this podcast before, that we've said repeatedly that Keir Starmer would fight and that he wasn't going to go lightly because there have been moments this week when everyone just thought it was game over for him. It was an inevitable. We were waiting for the podium and actually he's just dug in and he's still digging in at time of recording and just that has been quite extraordinary when, you know, Cabinet ministers were saying to me on Monday night, I think he is going to have to resign tomorrow. And they didn't want him to, but that was their reluctant conclusion. And I was getting so many sad messages from his supporters saying, I can't believe it's come to this. And then he just sort of said, well, there's been no leadership challenge. And so, you know, rules is the rules. Yeah. We're getting on with sorting out the economic fallout from Iran.

[A]

Yeah. Which hasn't even happened yet. Right. The time of recording is 3pm on Friday afternoon. Just in terms of things that have happened since we were last recording a podcast, we've got a new Health Secretary. So James Murray.

[E]

Much to say about him, a really.

[D]

A really steady pair of hands, as

[A]

we've seen, because he gets a decent

[E]

way of putting it, quite often has

[A]

to go out and defend the government when they're having a tough day. He's not put a foot wrong doing that. Yeah. Wes Stretting has not spoken personally, but some of his allies have said a few things like he will contest a leadership contest, if there is one. Cause actually, again, we hadn't realized, we didn't know for certain that he was ever going to. Also, Wes Stretink welcoming the entry of Andy Burnham into this potential leadership race as well. Anything else we need to catch up on, I guess.

[D]

Lucy Rigby has taken James Murray's job as Chief Secretary to the Treasury. She's sort of been seen as another safe pair of hands. Rising star. I'm sure that they have had barely, barely a paragraph on them in newspapers today because there's so much else going on. Whereas normally that would be a really big news story, a new Health Secretary, what will he do in the role, et cetera. There's just not really a peep on it.

[A]

Andy Burnham's been seen going out for a run.

[E]

Yes, he's running.

[A]

Literally. Anything we can glean from that? I mean, he went running, he went in a vintage football shirt.

[E]

That's very important, isn't it?

[A]

That kind of fits his brand.

[E]

Curated style. Yeah, perfectly on point as ever.

[A]

Reform have opened the nominations or the applications for their candidate for the Makerfield by election.

[E]

My understanding is that Labour will do the same very, very soon.

[A]

Yeah. And we've just got more reassurance from senior figures of the Labour Party towards Andy Burnham that he'll be allowed to put himself forward as the candidate.

[D]

But also these suggestions that Keir Starmer might contest a leadership contest with Andy Barnum.

[E]

Now, do you believe that?

[D]

So I make no comment on whether I believe it, but just really interesting still, I think that this whole Keir Starmer's determination to fight thing that we've been covering for a long time, I think he's still sort of catching up with these new developments. I mean, this is a very, very strange position for him to be put in. His power sort of ebbing away in slow motion. A very protracted coup, basically, which this

[A]

week he has survived. Cause he's still there.

[D]

But if, you know, a long, even a relatively short contest, you know, 4, 5, 6 of a by election where someone is basically running to replace him as Prime Minister but he has to seem happy about it, is a really crazy state of affairs. And, you know, we've had weeks of people trying to have conversations with Keir Starmer about how he can leave with dignity, whether he needs to settle at a timetable. And he has resisted all of those. I have to say, some people around him are being quite quiet today about these new developments and his state of mind. I wonder maybe whether he's going to change position. But actually, given everything that we've seen so far, every time we think this, the answer is no, he's still going to think there's no leadership contest. So I just think that. I think the psychology of Keir Starmer right now is one of the most interesting things. He is still the Prime Minister. It's not completely guaranteed that Andy Burnham would win in maker field and then where would the Labour Party be? I think most of them can't bear to think about that.

[A]

Well, and also talking about the psychology of the Labour Party, Siena, you can feel this idea not coalescing is maybe putting it too strongly of a coronation. Just explain why people are thinking that and how that would actually work in practice.

[E]

Right, yeah. So this is an interesting idea. So some people, including James Lyons, I think, was the first to kind of suggest it on, on record, who's a former Director of Communications and a Kirstoma number 10. And the idea is one of so many. So the idea is, if he does obviously get selected as a candidate for this by election, then win the by election, then he's in Parliament. Right. And at that point everyone knows that he's the guy who's going to win that leadership election, if there is one. Whether he does the formal challenge or we're treating does or whoever, or maybe Al Khan's whoever does it, Burnham is the one to be and would be incredibly difficult to be. So an option available to them is just stickle that, do backroom deals. You know, everyone vies for the job that they want in his cabinet and basically just have a Burnham coronation. And maybe that's. That's a bit swifter. It means that there's a kind of smoother transition of power. And it. It means that the country isn't left in limbo for so long because, of course, Labour Party processes means that the contests that Labour Party holds are very protracted. It is like the quickest. The very quickest really can be like seven weeks. But even that is a real kind of ask of the Labour Party. So it makes sense in some ways. The coronation, I think they'll see if he does win this by election, I think people will assess where they are. I think we're streeting. We'll see whether it benefits him more to kind of flex his muscles and show how well he can do in a contest. Because I assume that I would think that he could do well in a contest.

[A]

There's no second prize. But there is a second prize. There is a great job.

[E]

Absolutely.

[D]

But also, if I'm. I think an underpriced thing is that Andy Burnham has tried and failed to become Labour leader twice before. And so if you're Wes Straiting or basically any other leadership hopeful right now, I think you might think as long as we can get into a contest, it's not guaranteed that Barnum would win. I mean, absolutely, this is the case that you said, Sienna. This is like, absolutely the case that Burnham people make, that if he can win and make. Or field and beat reform, he's made such a strong case that he can

[E]

help the Labour Party far more than any leadership contest.

[D]

It's a proof of concept and then it's a given. But maybe it's actually not that straightforward. I just think that given what we've seen of Andy Barnum in the past, it's not sewn up. He has literally failed to do this twice before and you just don't know. Under the scrutiny of a contest, should it get to that, would things move? You just don't know.

[E]

But also, we need to remember that for Wes Streeting, who, I mean, obviously he's positioned himself as a bit of the kind of decider in this whole situation. He hasn't done it before. So even if he fails the first time around, he's young, it would be his first try. Fair enough. He'd be very well placed to do

[A]

it second time round, especially if he's seen as a bit of an underdog. Underdog behaves, performs well, but doesn't win. It's like that's what underdogs do. Also, just this whole thing about Starmer not blocking Andy Burnham, putting his name forward for the nomination in the by election. Why? Why has he changed his position when before he was very. A very hard no to that.

[D]

He's just not strong enough.

[A]

He's got no choice.

[D]

He's just got no choice. I thought that was a bit of smart politics from number 10 yesterday, that your colleague Henry Zeffman was able to break quite swiftly, that he understands from number 10 sources that Keir Starmer wouldn't seek to block this, that I think otherwise. Keir Starmer, I mean, he's already at risk of looking this way, but I think everyone would say, you know, he's looking a bit mad and stubborn and clinging onto par inside that building. They're going to have to drag him out in a coffin. You know, it would have got a bit hyperbolic. He just knows that he can't. And we've already seen the deputy leader of the Labour Party. We're stressing all these different voices calling on the NEC and the sort of leading Labour ruling body to let him stand. I mean, I was with a minister when the news broke that Andy Burnham had found a seat. And they said, they're not really a Burnham person, but they said, oh, do you think I'll think I would be sacked if I tweeted that, that I think he should be allowed to stand? And I said, I don't think there are any rules anymore. No, and there aren't. You know, there's no discipline if you challenge Keir Starmer's authority like that. Yeah.

[E]

I mean, lots of serving ministers have tweeted now that they want Burnham to stand and succeed and they'll be campaigning for him. And we also know that at least one serving minister said to Keir Starmer, to his face, you need to set a timetable for your departure in one of those meetings he held. So people can just say whatever they want.

[A]

Now I'm just obsessed with these parallel universe multiverse theories of, okay, imagine Catherine west hadn't done the stalking horse thing at the weekend on PM on Radio 4. Actually, would there have been as many backbenchers saying, we don't have confidence. You've got to set our timetable or you've got to go. How would history have played out then? And then I'm thinking even further back that if Anas Sarwar hadn't said so publicly. The PM should go. Did Anna Sarwa sort of create the new norm in the Labour Party that it was okay to be so explicit about Starmer that led to all of this this week?

[D]

I think it was Catherine west. She opened Pandora's box, as one person put it to me, because Louise Haig

[A]

had said, the former Transport Secretary had said something very similar a few days before in the wake of the election results.

[D]

And about 30 people had said some version of it that he needed to set a timetable. But I think there was something about Catherine west, this little known m former minister, just saying she'd had enough and if no one else did it, she would. She would challenge Keir Summer herself not cause she wanted to be Prime Minister but just so something would happen that kind of got things moving. And you saw more resignations. I mean, I think in the parallel universe that you described where she hadn't done that, these forces would still exist. Andy Burnham would still have been seeking a seat. But Josh Simonds may not have resigned without that sense of urgency. Wes Reading may not have moved this week. That might have taken weeks and it might have actually coincided with the next convulsion in the Keir Starmer leadership. We know that there'll be more Mandelson files released, for example. I think that some of these things would still have happened. There was still so much unhappiness. But the Labour Party has just shown itself kind of incapable of doing anything over the past few months. Everyone complaining about the leadership or a lot of people complaining about the leadership but not being willing to make a move until Catherine west finally did it.

[A]

And Sienna talking about other characters. Sorry to interrupt briefly for about five hours. Like Ed Miliband might be the big winner from all of this. Just explain why that that theory took hold.

[E]

So there are people kind of senior soft left mps who really in their heart of hearts, their number one candidate is Ed Miliband. And there's been tears over that discussion, I'm told, about whether to do Ed Miliband or Andy Burnham or whatever they all came to eventually to the conclusion that their plan A had to be Andy Burnham. But people figure that their plan B is Ed Miliband over the others. Obviously that would be hugely controversial. I think a lot of people agree that would be a very bad look for the Labour Party to the country to choose someone who's already been rejected by them even more than this whole self indulgence kind of impression is already being given. But nonetheless, I mean they have some kind of case, which is, as I think we can all see, love or hate him, what he's done in government. He's been the Secretary of State probably with the most purpose and has been really kind of actioning a plan that he already had figured out which so much of government lacked.

[A]

What is interesting about Ed Miliband is he's now cultivated, I say cultivated as if it's not real. But he's, he's much more comfortable in his own skin now than he was in the old days. He's quite, he's got a sense of humor and I'm quite surprised he hasn't done something, whether it's a tick tock video or a meme or something, just a nod to all of this because like the new Ed Miller band, I feel would, would do that. But maybe that shows that he still harbors ambitions because he hasn't taken the mickey out of it.

[D]

Oh yeah, well, I mean, I think it's quite widely known that he supports Andy Barnum coming back and it has just felt, I mean my impression from speaking to lots of people at the top of government this week or people around the cabinet table is just that it has felt so febrile. I know people hate that word, but it's felt so delicate that people have really not wanted to say anything publicly. I mean, Edmill Leband is in a really interesting position where he is less set on being leader and more set on providing the ideas. And so as Keir Starmer has faltered, you can see that he ends up absorbing more and more of the Ed Miliband view of the world in the things that he does around energy security, for example, and the slightly more economically populist approach that he's been taking in recent weeks and months. But also I think Ed Miliband would quite like to be the Chancellor for whoever comes next and just a very influential figure. The kind of power behind the throne, whether that's Andy Burnham or anyone else. But you've seen there have been some movements in the markets today around the political uncertainty and possibly the idea that Andy Burnham could become Prime Minister. And I'm not sure whether Ed Miliband would be as reassuring to those markets as, for example, keeping Rachel Reeves in. But if you really want a feeling of a new government under Andy Burnham. This is all so hypothetical now, so many caveats before he gets to that point. But you know, I suggested to someone within the past few months that I fit to my mind, I thought that Labour was in a kind of catch 22, doomed if it stuck with Keir Starmer, but also doomed if it changed leader and just looked chaotic and looked like the messy Tories again. And they said, yes, that's true, and if we just change leader for the sake of it, but if we can make it feel like a new government, like the difference between Theresa May and Boris Johnson, then I think that it's salvageable and that has to be with Andy Burnham in their view. So I don't know if you could keep Rachel Reeves in that situation. And then maybe that is time for an Ed Miliband chancellorship, whether the markets like it or not.

[E]

I mean, interestingly, she obviously there were briefings a couple of weeks ago, so like the weekend before the local election results started coming in, all about how Rachel Rees needed to be kept whoever took on the leadership next. Right. And then this week in Downing street and she was making the case for herself and her record and they were kind of asking, but what about the Prime Minister? And she'd go, anyway, my record.

[A]

So on the note of energy, I got my electricity bill today and it says in a little box at the bottom, you have got a discount on this bill because of government policy. So I wonder, yeah, do people notice that or is that priced in or whatever? I'm just thinking other things that have happened in Ed Miliband's world. Another character you mentioned a couple of times, Alva Al Carnes. So not a household name. Although he's become weirdly famous in Westminster this week. Defense minister, fairly new mp, writing in the New Statesman. He's given space in the magazine to set out his vision. Sienna, just explain why people are talking about Alcoharns. Because alcohols is talking about alcohol.

[E]

Well, that may be a big factor. I mean he does have his fans in Parliament. Very, very fervent supporters. Alcons. It comes, it's like it's a real thing in the Labor Party especially. I mean politics, I think. But then Labor Party, it's like, oh, we could do this counter intuitive thing of having an army guy lead us and people would quite like that kind of, oh, but military, you know. And that would be appealing to voters. And Alons is another one of these. We've had it before with a few other people like Dan Jarvis, even Clive Lewis briefly. So Al Khan's, he's being looked to by some people as someone who, you know, could take the Labor Party in a different direction. But I do wonder what people are thinking when they're thinking Al Khan's could be the solution. And you think about Keir Starmer, someone whose politics were kind of ambiguous, who didn't have much political experience but had a fantastic CV and who seemed like he could manage staff really well. And you know, they've tried Starmer, it hasn't gone so brilliantly. And you wonder why they don't have the same concerns about Alkhans. But what do you think, Alva?

[D]

I mean, you can tell from the way Sienna has put it very gently that there's quite a lot of skepticism about this. Some people in the Labour Party just think this is completely unserious and ridiculous, that he's been an MP for about two minutes, he is a minister, but that he just doesn't have the experience. And it is this whole thing of, you know, he's big and strong and he was in the military, he ex Special Forces, so he could probably kill us all with his bare hands.

[E]

Yeah, he doesn't have a tone of this discussion.

[D]

Yeah. Yes. So if we're not here next week, you'll know why. But.

[A]

Yeah, but just to be clear, no insinuation there of Al Kharan, but so

[D]

some people find this really unserious. I guess just to make the case for Al Carnes, his supporters would say that he would confuse reform, that he is not. He's not a Labour guy, really. He came to politics late. He had this career in the army, a really distinguished one, a really very decorated soldier in the Special Forces, very highly specialized. Did some quite scary stuff and. And that he is sort of right wing coded, basically, that he could speak to parts of the country that Labour is really struggling to reach. Nigel Farage wouldn't know what to do with him and he just would have a sort of fresh approach and a kind of charisma and that's the case for him. But Sienna has outlined the case against. He's definitely seen as a real dark horse, outside chance. But yes, we've given him the chance to set out his pitch. Even though he's. He's not officially standing and still in theory a loyal government minister. He outlines a sort of pitch in this week's New Statesman.

[E]

He is supposed to have been a conservative until quite recently. Right. I don't know if that's completely confirmed, but that's what people say.

[D]

And he's quite small c Conservative in some of the things that he, you know, speaks to colleagues about things like the birth rate, sort of just very like family.

[E]

I didn't know he was into that. That's one of the subjects. I'm going to talk to him about it.

[D]

Family values? Sort of, yeah, sort of. He really feels like the military gave him his second upbringing. He's a big believer in discipline and exercise and sort of fixing the mental health crisis by getting everyone at school to exercise more and eat better. He's that sort of tone and he

[A]

clearly wants to be somebody, otherwise we wouldn't be doing all of this stuff.

[D]

Well, also, this could just be a very clever play for John Healey's job as Defense Secretary, to be honest.

[E]

It's also been suggested Foreign Secretary, which again, I think is a lot considering.

[D]

And I should add, that's the other part of this pitch, that given the geopolitical context, he's quite well placed to address basically what some people see as a security crisis for the UK right now, when defence is such an important issue. Someone like him with a military background could be quite well placed for that. That's the Alcoharnes case, but listeners can make up their own minds.

[A]

But does he have the political and bureaucratic skills to get this defence investment plan finally off the drawing board and agree to the treasury and done and dusted. Any other characters we've not mentioned this

[D]

week who we think are Angela Raynor?

[A]

Well, of course, yeah. I mean, and it is just. Is it just pure coincidence that she got cleared by HMRC on Tuesday just as all of this was unfolding, or are we never gonna know?

[D]

It may be coincidence that she was cleared on Tuesday, but it's not a coincidence that they announced it on. Was it Thursday morning that they waited? They picked their moment perfectly for her to say, I'm actually available. I'm unencumbered by this now, so should the party want me in Cabinet or as a leader, I'm here if you need me. It was quite a clever play. Obviously, she hasn't been invited back into Cabinet and now Andy Barnum has announced a potential route back, which maybe means that her leadership chances are less likely. But she's been quite an interesting character. I think she's played the politics of it really cleverly, actually, because a few, even a week ago, it was really clear to me, from speaking to very close allies of her, that she was really annoyed that her natural supporters in the Labour Party weren't backing her, but they were all talking about Andy Burnham, who's not in Parliament, wasn't available to stand, and she was making it really clear that she was considering a leadership base. But then after those results came in, she issued a statement that killed any speculation. So we were all saying, oh, all eyes on West Streeting. What's West Streeting going to do? And there was no pressure, building on Angela Rayner to do the same thing or launch a bid herself. She kind of just absented herself from that conversation and no one has said anything about it. And she sort of signaled that she'd probably row in behind Andy Barnum, but also that she hasn't completely ruled out her leadership it bid. So I think she's still one to watch even. Even if it's just that she will play a really important role in, in the next iteration of labor leadership.

[A]

I also think just the way that she announced her comeback, the fact that she did a broadcast interview on Good Morning Britain and an interview with Pippa Carrera and the Guardian, so a sort of multimedia package and we call it the 6am embargo. It's like when you get a press release from the government with a policy and it says this is do not report this until 6am that's because you're coord to get your message out to as many people at the same time as possible. It's not that she just happened to chat to some journalists to reveal this, that there was a rollout, a plan for her comeback. Also, Cami Badenok, that speech she did responding to the King's speech at the state opening of Parliament was zinger tastic. She really looked like she was enjoying herself. She was really winding up Labour. But was that just because she was shooting at an open goal?

[E]

Yes, but it does feed into this kind of Westminster narrative of Kemi Badenoch has grown in confidence. She's so much better at the dispatch box now. She's getting better and better. But I do feel that if we hadn't had all this labor drama, I think everyone accepts that we would be talking more about how the Conservatives did not do very well at all in those local elections. And, you know, when I interviewed her back in September or October for the Tory conference, she, I kind of got herself to mark her own future homework and said, what's your vision of success for those elections in May? And she said, holding and gaining seats now, they did not do that. They lost, you know, 500 seats. That was substantial. And yet the kind of response was, some would say, tone deaf in being like, this is brilliant. We're doing great on the weekend of the. Those results coming in. And everyone's like, no. And I think some Conservatives have kind of looked at that and been a bit like, oh, not sure about that. And we're quite worried now about our standing. And yet, because we've all been so distracted by Labour. Kind of. Nobody's been talking to Tories or. Or covering their views on all of this.

[A]

She got the backing of Nicki Minaj, singer and rapper.

[D]

Did she?

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Who? I missed this crucial development.

[A]

She retweeted Nicki Minaj someone's post on social media of a clip of. Of Camille Badenoch's speech. And she said, the UK is truly one of a kind. They will portray her in film and TV one day, just like they did with Margaret Thatcher.

[D]

Kemi Badenoch will absolutely love that.

[A]

Right. I think we've covered loads of ground there. It feels like everyone's gonna have a weekend. Famous last words.

[E]

Oh, no.

[D]

Wes Streighting giving a speech tomorrow at the Progress Conference.

[A]

Oh, I didn't have that in my calendar.

[D]

Oh, no.

[A]

But surely he's gonna. I hate that phrase. Keep his powder dry. But is there any incentive for him to rock the boat any further?

[E]

I mean, he can't help but make news every time he opens his mouth because he's just so naturally sort of.

[D]

You would imagine it will be. I haven't seen what's in the speech or anything. This is just me sort of speculating. But you'd imagine it will be his critique of what Labour has got wrong and a bit more on what he would do.

[A]

Because he's unleashed now.

[D]

Yeah, he's unleashed. And he'll probably just sort of. It'll be the beginnings of a leadership pitch.

[A]

Exactly.

[D]

Even though the starting gun hasn't been fired. And you could say he's been making that pitch since last Christmas, basically.

[E]

And we heard a lot of it in his resignation letter as well. He was really setting out, you know, things like, well, I wouldn't push people under the bus in the same way you have, Keir Starmer, you know, things like that. I think we'll hear more of that tomorrow.

[A]

Plenty for Laura and Paddy and Henry to decode over the weekend. It never stops. Alva, thank you very much.

[D]

Thank you.

[A]

And Sienna, thanks to you too.

[E]

Thank you.

[A]

And that's all for this episode of Newscast. As intimated, Laura and Paddy will be here with another one very soon. Bye bye. Newscast.

[E]

Newscast from the BBC.

[F]

Well, thank you for making it to the end of another newscast. You clearly ooze stamina. Can I gently encourage you to subscribe to us on BBC Sounds? And then, without having to do anything else, our meandering chat will miraculously make its way to your phone.

[A]

How did Russell Brand become a Christian influencer? I'm Tristan Redman.

[B]

And I'm Asma Khalid and we're the hosts of the Global Story podcast from the BBC.

[A]

Brand is facing charges of rape, which he denies.

[B]

Over the years, he's been at a standup TV host, author, Hollywood film star, podcaster, and now a new religious incarnation.

[F]

Listen to the global story on BBC.com

[A]

or wherever you get your podcasts.