The Week: Jeremy Bowen On The Iran War

Summary

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Newscast — The Week: Jeremy Bowen On The Iran War

Date: March 13, 2026
Host(s): Chris Mason, Alex, James
Guest: Jeremy Bowen (BBC's International Editor)

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Overview

This episode of BBC Newscast delves deeply into the evolving Iran War, with special analysis from seasoned war correspondent Jeremy Bowen. The hosts break down the historical context, geopolitical maneuvering, domestic UK political responses, economic fallout, and contemporary war communication — including the controversial use of social media by the US administration. Bowen’s remarkable perspective, drawn from decades of frontline reporting, helps anchor the conversation in both historic parallels and the urgent realities of today’s crisis in the Gulf region.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Historical Parallels — Gulf Wars and Echoes Today

• Bowen draws a direct line from the First Gulf War (1991) and its aftermath to today’s Iran War, arguing that past Western actions seeded future conflicts:
  • Quote: “The seeds of the next Gulf War were planted in the previous one...because Saddam Hussein was left in power.” (06:23, Jeremy Bowen)
• Presidential Messaging: Recollection of then-President George H.W. Bush’s 1991 comments encouraging Iraqis to overthrow Saddam — a parallel to current US calls for Iranians to resist their regime.
  • Quote: “There’s another way for the bloodshed to stop, and that is for the Iraqi military and the Iraqi people to take matters into their own hands...” (02:21, George H.W. Bush)
• Modern Parallels: Bowen notes the current American approach invites similar risks by encouraging regime change without clear commitments or plans.

2. Present Conflict — ‘Gulf War 3’?

• Bowen asserts the present Iran War is effectively the third Gulf War, driven in part by unchecked consequences from prior conflicts.
  • Quote: “That was the unfinished business which in 2003, the second President Bush...was to remove Saddam Hussein...Americans had very obligingly removed Iran’s most bitter enemy.” (06:23)
• He stresses the growth of Iran’s regional influence as a downstream effect of US-led interventions.

3. The UK’s Position and Political Calculus

• UK Troop Safety: Latest reports of UK troops in northern Iraq being attacked by Iranian drones.
• HMS Dragon Deployment: British naval forces move towards the Mediterranean, signaling heightened UK involvement.
• Political Messaging: PM Keir Starmer anchors the UK’s position in lessons learned from the Iraq War, emphasizing defensive/internationally legal engagement only.
  • Quote: “He was setting out the reason for the position and the distinction between being involved in offensive action or defensive action as being the way that they want to approach this.” (10:08, Alex)
• The opposition Conservatives and Reform UK parties criticized for inconsistent stances.

4. US Administration’s Messaging — Confusion and Contradiction

• Trump’s Rhetoric: Lack of clarity or strategy, shifting language from regime change to relying on Iranians for internal revolt.
  • Quote: “I think they’ve been making it up as they go along.” (13:22, Jeremy Bowen)
  • On Trump and close advisors: "He has really stripped back the national security bureaucracy...because he wants to have a tight group around him." (13:22)
• Administration Figures: The replacement of expert advisors with political loyalists (Rubio, J.D. Vance, Pete Hegseth) signals a less structured approach.
• Resilient Regime: Bowen insists the US continues to underestimate the Iranian system’s toughness and culture of resistance.

5. Economic Fallout: Oil, Strait of Hormuz, and the Cost of Living

• Iranian Tactics: Asymmetric warfare through drone/missile strikes, aiming to destabilize regional economies.
  • Quote: "What's important is that they've been doing it ... going after that reputation they have then of safety, stability, the place where the world can go, the global hub." (15:42, Jeremy Bowen)
• Strait of Hormuz: Newly-anointed Supreme Leader Mujtaba Khamenei (after his father's assassination) threatens to close the vital shipping lane; potential for severe global disruption.
• UK Domestic Impact: Rising oil prices, debate over fuel tax, and possible energy insecurity dominate the political discussion.
  • Quote: “There’s already early evidence and...much more medium term concerns around...what happens if you can’t get things through the Strait of Hormuz...” (17:27, Chris)
• Political Debate: Renewed arguments about UK energy strategy: North Sea oil/gas vs. renewables.

6. Regional Dynamics: Iran’s Network of Allies & Proxies

• Discussion broadens to Iranian-backed groups in Lebanon, Yemen (Houthis), Iraq (PMF), and their potential influence if the conflict escalates.
  • Quote: “They were able to close the Red Sea. They haven’t done it so far. They might do it.” (22:43, Jeremy Bowen)
• Emphasis on the remaining power of “the axis of resistance,” despite successful Israeli strikes on some factions.

7. Communicating War: Social Media & the Trivialization of Violence

• Controversial US Videos: The White House has released stylized “video game” style attack videos to communicate successes.
  • Quote: “I thought it was massively undignified, but maybe...that’s the way you communicate with a certain...group.” (25:08, Jeremy Bowen)
  • Quote: “The word I hear at Westminster...even those who will speak quite warmly about aspects of what Donald Trump...is grotesque [to describe] that communication strategy.” (25:51, Chris)
• Risks of Trivialization: Concerns are raised about reducing deadly military action to entertainment, desensitizing viewers, and encouraging reckless use of power.
  • Quote: “If you reduce it to looking like a video game...I know what high explosive does to the human body...Joking about it, I personally find distasteful.” (27:05, Jeremy Bowen)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On War Messaging and Repercussions:
  • “You do get the feeling with this administration...they don't really have a plan.” (13:22, Jeremy Bowen)
• On Economic Warfare’s Far Reach:
  • “That's their long arm, you know, getting to the petrol forecourts of service stations in this country…this area is so troublesome.” (20:01, Jeremy Bowen)
• On Social Media & Dignity:
  • “It’s not dignified.” (26:33, Jeremy Bowen)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 02:21 — Presidential Parallels (Bush 1991 audio)
• 06:04 — Bowen on ‘Gulf War 3’ and continuity of conflicts
• 08:43 — UK’s political positioning, military activity, and parliamentary debate
• 11:21 — US Administration’s confused objectives and regime change rhetoric
• 13:22 — Bowen critiques Trump’s national security approach
• 15:42 — Asymmetric warfare & economic impact on the Gulf and UK
• 17:27 — UK domestic politics, cost of living, and future energy debate
• 21:40 — Iran’s regional proxies and broader risk of escalation
• 24:27 — The White House’s viral war videos and public reaction
• 25:51 — Westminster’s response: “grotesque” communication strategy
• 27:05 — Ethical concerns over ‘video game’ approach to war footage

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Conclusion

Jeremy Bowen’s insights frame today’s Iran conflict as the result of decades of policies, miscalculations, and unresolved questions from earlier Gulf Wars. The conversation traces the war’s cascading effects — from oil prices to parliamentary debate to the global media feeds that now shape public understanding and political will. Both the immediacy of violence and the long shadow of history pervade every segment, making this episode a thoughtful, thorough guide for anyone seeking to understand the complexity, consequences, and communication of the Iran War in 2026.

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Transcript

[Jeremy Bowen]

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[Chris Mason]

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[Alex]

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[Alex]

So, James, I was reading this really interesting article on the BBC news website, full of interesting articles, but this one in particular caught my eye and it was by the BBC's international editor, Jeremy Bowen, and it was sort of reflections about the various wars that he's seen and experienced in his reporting in the Gulf and the kind of echoes of where we're at now.

[Chris Mason]

Yeah. And I mean, goodness knows how many has he experienced as well. Many, many wars. And the thing about Jeremy is he's seen so much for so long with his own eyes that his take is really, really worth listening to. Nothing beats that on the ground reporting. He was on the Today programme on Radio 4 talking about it, reading out this article, essentially. It was 11 minutes long and you think that's an awful long time for one person to talk. I was just sitting listening to it, thinking, this is really fascinating.

[Alex]

Totally. And it is for that very reason that we nabbed him to talk to us on this episode of Newscast.

[Newscast Outro Host]

Newsc.

[Alex]

Newscast from the BBC.

[Jeremy Bowen]

Fat Boy Slim and me in the

[Chris Mason]

classroom doing our violin lessons. I was the tattletale in the classroom.

[Jeremy Bowen]

Can I have an apology, please? I trust almost nobody that Daddy has to sometimes use strong language.

[Chris Mason]

Next time in Moscow.

[Alex]

I feel delulu with no Salulu.

[Jeremy Bowen]

Take me down to Downing Street.

[Chris]

Let's go have a tour.

[George H.W. Bush]

Blimey.

[Chris Mason]

Hello, it's James in the studio.

[Alex]

And it's Alex in the studio.

[Chris]

I'm Chris in the studio.

[Jeremy Bowen]

And Jeremy's here too, in the studio. And the only guy wearing a tie.

[Alex]

Yeah, well noticed.

[Chris Mason]

As is appropriate for your age.

[Jeremy Bowen]

Thank you very much. Dress your age. That's what they say, actually. So I got my state pension this month.

[Chris Mason]

Congratulations.

[Jeremy Bowen]

Thank you.

[Chris Mason]

Here on Newscast this week, we've been covering a lot of aspects of the war in Iran. And, Jeremy, I know you've been thinking, talking of age, about this particular moment from 1991, and there's another way for

[George H.W. Bush]

the bloodshed to stop, and that is for the Iraqi military and the Iraqi people to take matters into their own hands and force Saddam Hussein, the dictator to step aside and then comply with the United nations resolutions and rejoin the family of peace loving nations.

[Chris Mason]

It's a long time ago. Not everyone will remember that. Who is that and what is it?

[Jeremy Bowen]

That is the First President Bush. First President George Bush in February 1991, nine days before the ground off offensive started in the, the first Gulf War, which was to remove Iraq from Kuwait. And he was at the Raytheon factory in Massachusetts where they make the Patriot missiles. Now the, the Patriot missile, which is this anti missile interceptor and now is still very much a very important thing in Ukraine and in this Iran war was the, was the sort of the rock star weapon of that first, because it was the first missile that knocked out missiles. And so it was really cutting edge. So he went there to congratulate the workers and say you're doing a great job and rally the troops. The operation to get Iraq out of Kuwait was going, but as I say, there was quite a long way to go in it. And if you look at the whole script, it's just a few throwaway lines where he says in that there's another way of doing this, the people of Iraq can get rid of the dictator. And maybe he thought nothing more about it, but I suspect he regretted that to the cause. He was basically a very decent man to the end of his life because they took it seriously. And then when he went, had a ceasefire at the end of the war, when they got the Iraqis out of Kuwait, the authority they had, because that was actually a legal war, the authority they had from UN resolutions had expired essentially because they'd done what they'd come to do. They had a ceasefire, left Saddam Hussein, the dictator in power in Baghd and people who the Kurds in the north and the Shia were the majority community in Iraq, rose up against the regime thinking that this massive, fully tooled up coalition, literally hundreds of thousands of troops, might help them out. And they didn't. And there was slaughter because the ceasefire agreement had been. The Iraqis managed to persuade the Americans to let them keep their helicopters, saying that you've knocked out so many bridges we'll never be able to get around the country. I mean, nonsense. I was there at the time, there were plenty of bridges left. And so what happened was they used their helicopters in an offensive against the uprising and they killed thousands. There was a massive exodus of hundreds of thousands. I was up in the mountains by this stage in northern Iraq and Kurdistan. It was really cold, kids dying all over the place. And so the reason I've been thinking about it is because both Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu have been saying, we're not going to help you out directly, but we are preparing the ground people of Iran, and you would be foolish. Trump almost used those words at the beginning. He said, he said, this is your once in a generation, maybe once in several generation opportunities to take over your country. So I thought about that. When they listened to an American president, it went terribly wrong.

[Alex]

It's interesting that you draw the sort of parallel with the echo of the sentiment that's been reflected now since from President Trump. But there was something else because you wrote a long piece about this for the BBC news website, and I was reading it and there was something else that was in there, a phrase that just stood out. And you talked about Gulf War 3. Do you think that we're in that space?

[Jeremy Bowen]

Well, very much so. I would argue strongly that the, the seeds of the next Gulf War were planted in the previous one. That first one there seemed to be unfinished business because Saddam Hussein was left in power. I was in Baghdad when they signed the ceasefire and they had been, I'm telling you, the regime officials were getting so they hadn't been very nice to us. They were getting so ingratiating. It was almost as if you're going to be in charge in a couple of days here, you know, we're on the way out. They could not believe it when the ceasefire was signed and they, and they immediately put their horrible faces back on. And about a week later, actually, we realized afterwards, because the uprisings had started, they kicked us all out with two hours notice to get to the border. And anyway, so that was the unfinished business which in 2003, the second president Bush, when they invaded with Britain's help, of course, that was to remove Saddam Hussein. And one of the big strategic consequences of that second Gulf War was that the Americans had very obligingly removed Iran's most bitter enemy, Saddam Hussein. And so they really benefited as well from having a friendly government in Baghdad because there was a majority government. The Americans wanted a system that reflected the community who were Shia and had some religious. They weren't, you know, shoulder to shoulder and everything, but they had a lot of connections. A lot of the people who then took power in Iraq had actually spent the Saddam years in Iran. And so you see how it goes. You know, one set of circumstances begets another.

[Chris Mason]

We, I suppose the difference that we have this time between the other two is the lack of a presence of US or indeed UK troops on the ground. But there is news today about UK troops not being directly involved, but based in Iraq, Chris, coming under fire from Iranian drones, as far as we know. And also we know that HMS Dragon, this destroyer, is on its way to the Mediterranean. What's your assessment about the UK's position here and whether or not the UK is being pulled in in some way to this, what Jeremy discover as effectively a third Gulf War?

[Chris]

So I think we've seen in the last couple of days a expression of confidence from the Prime Minister that in his judgment he called the UK's strategic position in this. Right, particularly in the context of the domestic political conversation here. They have been going out of their way in government to point to what they see as the contradictions that they've heard from, say, Reform uk, and it is true to say senior figures in Reform have occupied lots of different positions about this conflict in the last couple of weeks. And they also believe in government that the Conservatives have been inconsistent. Now, an element of that is the usual back and forth and you'd hear counter views expressed by the Conservatives in Reform. But from Labour's perspective and from the Prime Minister's perspective, he has a real sense of a conviction that he's called this right. Equally, they are very aware and it's part of the argument they've made publicly, they don't know where this goes. They don't think that they have a real sense of Washington knowing where this goes. And then where does the UK's involvement go, whether it with the deployment of HMS Dragon, these British forces in Erbil in northern Iraq and. Yeah, where does it go next when you have the Defense Secretary, John Healey, talking about, what was the phrase, the hidden hand of Vladimir Putin, he says, in helping Iran respond to, to the war.

[Alex]

Because he was talking about there, wasn't he, the tactics effectively being used with the use of drones. That he suggested was something that was from the sort of Russian playbook. But it's just so interesting, to the point you raised, Chris, about the way the UK government's calibrated its response to this quite cautiously. And to Jeremy's point, Keir Starmer was citing the Iraq War and the memory of that, when he was sort of setting out the reason for the position and the distinction between a being involved in offensive action or defensive action as being their sort of the, the, the way that they want to approach this. He was also, without alluding to it directly, suggesting it was because they would only get involved in an action that he thought was legal and also had a clear Objective and didn't say, didn't say this, but the sort of implicit reading of that from a lot of people was the suggestion that perhaps Washington doesn't have a clear objective. And, and just to that point, we've heard again from President Trump who's spoken quite a lot this week about where he thinks the war is or isn with various different interpretations, perhaps deliberately, perhaps not of that. And this was the latest one that we had from President Trump at a recent press conference on, on. When was this?

[Chris Mason]

Tuesday.

[Alex]

Tuesday.

[Interviewer]

You called it an excursion. You said it would be over soon. Are you thinking this week it will be over no days?

[George H.W. Bush]

I think so.

[Interface Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

And with respect, very soon.

[George H.W. Bush]

Look, everything they have is gone, including their leadership.

[Chris Mason]

How do you assess the messages coming out from Donald Trump, coming from the White House? What are we to make of it? Jeremy?

[Jeremy Bowen]

I think he was nonplussed by the fact that the regime didn't collapse after they killed the Supreme Leader. I think that's what they were expecting. Donald Trump is someone who, I think it's safe to say does not have a deep historical perspective about things. You know, he's pretty notorious for not even reading his intelligence briefs properly. He goes with his gut. His press secretary reflects that sort of thing. She actually says it. So I think that when the regime didn't fold after they killed the Supreme Leader, That was the time they were throwing out all kinds of rationales for what was happening and objectives. You know, there was unconditional surrender, then there was the president will decide when they've unconditionally surrendered. And there was talk of regime change, then there was talk of, no, we're not going to change the regime, but the Iranian people can Change the regime, etc. Etc. Etc. So I think that they have been essentially, and I've been criticized somewhat for using this phrase, but I would stand by it. I think they've been making it up as they go along. The one thing you can say about, say, the second Gulf War, the invasion, the consequences were catastrophic for the region, for Iraq, and they were politically very, very damaging, of course, for Tony Blair and George Bush. But they spent a year trying to sell the idea, going around the world, trying to persuade Americans it was a great idea, trying to persuade the world it was a good idea. They tried to go to the UN they didn't succeed in getting a resolution through, but they went ahead anyway. And then they were also criticized for not planning the post war properly, or rather having chucked out the plans that they had made. But the point was they did have some plans. You do get the feeling with this administration. And what Trump has also done is he has really stripped back the national security bureaucracy that has always existed in the White House to generate policy, to generate ideas, to make plans. A lot of those guys are fired because he wants to have a tight group around him. So we see them, you know, we see the people around him. Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, J.D. vance, Vice President Pete Hegseth taking the lead on this tv Ready? Pete Hegseth, you know, a Fox News presenter before he was Secretary of Defense, or should I say Secretary for War, as he's rebranded himself. And so that's why I think we're getting a lot of this stuff flying around, because they don't really have a plan, because what they didn't realize is that the way that the regime in Iran, you know, which is an awful regime, which kills its own people in the street for daring to protest in their thousands, maybe even tens of thousands, locks people up, terrible things. They didn't seem to have noticed that it's built to be resilient. And they have this whole culture of resistance as well.

[Alex]

And the person who might have to contend with that is the new supreme Leader, who is Mujtaba Khamenei, who is the son of the supreme leader that was killed, assassinated in the initial strikes. If you want to hear more about him, we actually recorded an episode of newscast looking at him, looking at what he said in his first statement, although he didn't say it, it was a statement that was actually read on his behalf. Nobody's yet seen or heard from him. But if you look on on BBC Sounds, there's a whole episode of of newscast all about that. But there was an interesting element in the words that were attributed to the new supreme leader. And that was when he was talking about making sure the Strait of Hormuz, this crucial shipping lane through so much of the oil and gas that the world depends on travels keeping that Strait of Hormuz closed. And of course, there are all of the human ramifications of this war. There are all the geopolitical ramifications of this war, and then there are also the economic implications of this war. And that is starting to bite. You know, potentially here in the UK I mean, it's become a factor, right, that people are considering as long as

[Jeremy Bowen]

alongside everything else, it's a potent weapon. And, you know, yes, if you look at the actual tangible physical damage in Gulf States caused by Iranian drones and missiles, it's not that much. But what's important is that they've been doing it and they've been hitting the airport every now and then and they've been hitting some oil facilities. And so that goes after that reputation they have then of safety, stability, the place where the world can go, the global hub. And it's because they're using classic tactics of asymmetric warfare in which the weak can fight the strong and they know very well they'll get nowhere in a stand up, gloves off fight with the Americans and the Israelis. But if they broaden the conflict, if they use the economic weapons, if they go after this status that the Gulf countries work so hard to get and all they want is stability and they are going after that and it's actually,

[Chris Mason]

it's hurting them and it's hurting arguably some people in this country as well. Newscasters may be wondering, what does this mean for me? What is the impact on me? The oil price has been on a wild, wild ride this week. We were discussing that with Simon Jack, BBC's business editor, earlier in the week. And one of the things Chris Simon was talking about was the possibility whether the government might actually change policy in terms of taxation on filling up your car, for example. What are the potential political ramifications of what's happening here and the, and the implications for newscasters listening to this in terms of their wallets. They're filling up their car, they're shopping, all the rest of it.

[Chris]

So look, the biggest domestic concern for the biggest number of people in the UK for years and years and years has been the cost of living. The Government in the last six months has been desperate to try and talk about it often. The Prime Minister wants to go out every single week and be seen and have cameras with him when he's chatting over a cup of tea with folk in community centers around the country. That has been happening every week. You'd be forgiven for not having noticed because there's been a lot of news about, and I don't just mean in the last fortnight, you know, for much of the recent months, particularly since the turn of the year, and at just the point that folk in government were beginning to feel that they could start and do it tentatively because they don't want to overdo it, but start talking about how things might just in some indicators be turning a corner economically. You have a moment like this of obviously profound geopolitical significance, but of potential huge economic significance at home for heating bills, for petrol prices, for, particularly at the moment, the cost of people, the cost for people who use heating Oil. Now, granted, there is the energy price cap for electricity and gas for a good few months ahead. There's this prospect of an increase in fuel duty coming in September. Now, governments don't usually like to have their hand forced for, if you like, what they would call fiscal moments, tax changes between budgets. But it's really live and they are so conscious in the context of this wider concern about the cost of living that there is already early evidence and obviously the prospect of much more medium term concerns around. Well, you know, what happens if you can't get things through the straight of Hormuz for a period of time? Well, we know what happens.

[Alex]

You know, that is the recent memory of what happened in Ukraine as well and the economic and very real consequences that that had in the UK is still so fresh in people's minds. And it's so interesting how the kind of political debate has caught on to this element of it. Specifically this week in particular, I would say, around fuel duty, which the government has said it was, is going to review now after it was, you know, subject to a huge feisty PMQs Deb and the other element that I think might increasingly become part of the debate here is about future energy security with some people advancing the argument, rightly or wrongly, that another energy shock means that we have to look again at the way that we manage our energy in the UK and for some people, they'll argue exploit oil and gas, other people will say, absolutely not. What you need to be doing is then looking at renewables. So it's just very interesting aside and I appreciate that in the context of everything that's going on, it might not be the most important thing at the forefront of some people's minds. But that is, I think, where the political conversation the UK might continue to go.

[Jeremy Bowen]

No, I think it is important because it shows, first of all, the potency of this strategy that the Iranians are using of asymmetric warfare. That's their long arm, you know, getting to the petrol forecourts of service stations in this country. But it's more than that as well. I think it's a reminder of the way that the Middle east, as the world's most turbulent region, has this unfortunate habit of exporting its troubles. They have an awfully long reach. We've seen it in the past. Remember 2015, there was a huge refugee crisis because of loads of people leaving. Syria particularly. I mean, that had and still is having ramifications. The whole immigration debate really went, you know, turbocharged after that. And this as well, you know, this time around, it's economics and not for the first time from the Middle East. So, I mean, that's why this area is so troublesome and why I really believe deeply we cannot, in this country avoid thinking about it.

[Chris Mason]

Can I ask you one more thing about the wider region and the extent to which other countries are being drawn in? Because there's been a lot of talk over the years of Iran's proxies or allies in the region, whether that's the Houthis in Yemen, whether that's Hamas, whether that's Hezbollah in Lebanon. We have seen a lot of Israeli strikes in Lebanon and Hezbollah strikes against Israel. Can you just give us a sense of the picture, Jenemy, in the wider region? What's going on?

[Jeremy Bowen]

Well, I think one reason why they chose this time, and it is a war of choice to go after Iran, they said there were imminent threats. There's no proof, there's no evidence of that. They went after it because Iran was looking much weaker. Because in the time since the Hamas attacks of 7 October, two and a bit years ago, that network, the axis of resistance, as Iran called it, which they built up at the cost of billions of dollars, over many years, the Israelis have done massive amount to smash it. Hamas is of course, very much. It's confined to half of Gaza. They're out of the picture in that sense. Hezbollah, you remember the exploding pages in 24? Well, Israel after that, went after them in a big way. They weakened them, they clearly didn't destroy them, but now they feel they can go after them and maybe destroy them once and for all.

[Chris Mason]

The exploding pages being the fact that the Israeli security services had infiltrated to an extraordinary degree this network and killed and injured.

[Jeremy Bowen]

They sold many pages by selling them. They set up front companies, sold Hezbollah pages which had little bombs in them, and when the time came, they pressed a button and exploded them all. I mean, it was a very audacious thing and as well as that. But there are other parts of the network that still exist which haven't really done a great deal. And the Houthis you mentioned in Yemen, they were able to close the Red Sea. They haven't done it so far. They might do it.

[Chris Mason]

And that's just. Sorry, Jeremy, just to be clear, that's the other side, the other side of Arabia, Hormuz. So if you close both, you've got a really big problem.

[Jeremy Bowen]

Well, that's all the cargoes that would go between Europe and from the Mediterranean. So some could have come from the state, you know, all through The Suez Canal down through the Red Sea on the left hand side of the map, as you look at it, Saudi Arabia and all that was lots of stuff going to Asia. So if you've got both closed, wow, Asia's in trouble. And as well as that, and you mentioned Iraq earlier. Some of the most powerful forces in Iraq are militias set up by Iran initially mostly to fight Islamic State. But more than that, they are real players in the country. They're called popular mobilization forces and these have been armed and trained and many of them in different degrees are loyal to the regime in Tehran and they haven't done a great deal thus far. And they are there. So there's lots of stuff that could still happen.

[Alex]

So you started off talking about the similarities or at least the echoes from the previous Gulf wars and where we are now. But of course, one thing that is just vastly different now is social media and the role that social media has in this kind of thing. And actually the White House has been putting out some social media videos relating to the war.

[Chris Mason]

And this one, if you're listening to this podcast rather than watching it, is in the style of an old video game which shows various different sports. And it cuts between the arrow being fired in the sport or the baseball bat being hit. And then it cuts to an American intelligence, grainy black and white, not that grainy black and white picture of a target being hit, which we assume to be targets within Iran. And I mean, Jeremy, when you first looked at this, what was your assessment of how this might go down with other world leaders, what other people looking at this might think of it?

[Jeremy Bowen]

I think it's massive. I mean, I. Look, this is a perspective of me as a 66 year old male who remembers the time when there wasn't social media. I thought it was massively undignified, but maybe and tasteless because all those explosions, there are people being blown to smithereens in them. But I, I thought, well, maybe that's the way you communicate with a certain, with, you know, with the MAGA group in the States or with younger people. I don't know, maybe people find it

[Chris Mason]

funny, MAGA being Trump's make again America great again base, who are a lot of them about the war. And maybe this is a way to

[Jeremy Bowen]

reconnect some way of getting back in there that we're knocking these people for six, as we'd say in the world of cricket, maybe in the modern world that's how you need to communicate.

[Chris]

I mean, the word I hear at Westminster from people of all political persuasions even those who will speak quite warmly about aspects of what Donald Trump frequently does is grotesque. To describe that kind of word, to describe that kind of, that communication strategy, the meshing of the, you know, whether it's sports and those clips from the war or cartoons that have been, that

[Chris Mason]

have been used, arguably the trivialization of violence.

[Jeremy Bowen]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And that's the argument that I've heard, as I say, from people on the left and the right, people who will be very critical of Donald Trump more broadly, others who would be much more, in many senses, supportive of him around this kind of communication strategy.

[Jeremy Bowen]

And this, this is from the world's, as Donald Trump keeps reminding us, the world's most powerful country, the most powerful country ever, and with aspirations to world leadership. It's not dignified.

[Chris Mason]

Well, maybe the counter argument is that this is an oppressive regime that has vowed death to America and Israel, that has caused a great deal of pain, violence and suffering, not least for its own people. And these are military targets. And the United States is saying, look, this is what we're doing.

[Jeremy Bowen]

Yeah, it's one thing saying, this is what we're doing. And those gun camera briefings were used in, say, in the first Gulf War, in the early 90s. It's the way that they've been animated and turned into Internet video experiences that I think people are arguing with the way that. And actually jokes. It's not just in the first Gulf War, there was a bit of consternation when older viewers may remember someone called Norman Stormin, Norman Schwarzkopf, who was the American commander. And early on. And these gun camera pictures were really new at that time, back in 91. And there was one where he says, hey, look at this in a briefing. And there's a guy walking across a bridge or maybe cycling across a bridge, and then he says, this is the luckiest guy in Iraq. And. And just as the guy leaves the bridge, boom, they blow the whole thing up. And everybody had a massive laugh about it. But then people were saying this is just kind of some kind of arcade game culture here. In fact, this is war. And war, if you reduce it to looking like a video game, I mean, as a reporter, I've reported on more than 20 wars. I know what high explosive does to the human body. It blows it into mincemeat. And so joking about it, I personally find distasteful. But also, what does it say about the way you use your force and your power if you do reduce it to that kind of level of a jokey meme that you can put out on social media because if you don't take it seriously, then maybe you start using it unwisely. And you could argue that maybe that's what the Americans have done, that they got so carried away with their own power, so desperate to use it. Use what? Use their toys in the train set. That especially if it's just all very distant, you forget what you're doing.

[Alex]

Well, thank you for sharing your serious analysis and communication skills to talk us through what is happening. That's it, but appreciate it, Chris. Thank you. Cheers Jeremy, thank you.

[Jeremy Bowen]

It's a pleasure. Nice to be here always.

[Chris Mason]

That's all from us. Bye bye for now.

[Alex]

Goodbye. Newscast Newscast from the BBC.

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