What Has Changed After UK Recognises Palestine?

Newscast – “What Has Changed After UK Recognises Palestine?”

BBC News Podcast, Hosted by Adam Fleming with Katrina Perry, James Landale, Vicky Young, and Ben Chu
Date: September 22, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Newscast examines the impact and practicalities following the United Kingdom's recognition of a Palestinian state. Set at the start of the annual United Nations General Assembly in New York, Adam Fleming checks in with Katrina Perry and James Landale—both on the ground at the UN—about what the recognition means on a diplomatic, symbolic, and practical level. The episode also explores the changing language in UK foreign policy, the knock-on effects among the UN and the EU, US involvement, and a major UK domestic political development regarding Reform UK's new immigration policies.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What Does UK Recognition of Palestine Actually Mean?

Diplomatic Shifts:
James Landale explains that recognition by the UK will lead to technical differences, like the Palestinian mission in London becoming a formal embassy and its head gaining the title of ambassador. However, there are unresolved questions, e.g., what happens to Britain's Consulate General in East Jerusalem.

“There will be some technical differences... the Palestinian mission in London will, we expect, become a formal embassy.” – James Landale [04:04]
Symbolism vs. Substance:
There is no clear answer to who the UK would recognize as the Palestinian head of state, given the lack of contiguous borders, recognised capital, or unified leadership. Thus, the move is seen more as recognition of the idea of a Palestinian state.

"What we're seeing here really is the recognition of an idea that such a thing should exist... we're a long way away from that." – James Landale [05:15]

2. International Momentum and Symbolic Value

Pressure and Hope:
Katrina Perry shares that, for many in the Arab world, UK recognition gives hope and increases pressure especially on the US. This momentum is growing as other countries (e.g., Portugal, Australia, Canada) also join in.

“It gives hope, hope to that movement... ultimately, that's putting pressure on the United States.” – Katrina Perry [07:57]
EU and Global Dynamics:
The more EU member states that formally recognize Palestine, the more likely the bloc will move collectively. This could eventually lead to bigger actions such as trade embargoes, which might pressure Israel further.

“...that may lead to that ceasefire that seems so elusive as we're standing here talking right now.” – Katrina Perry [09:02]

3. The US Role and Diplomatic Logistics

American Gatekeeping:
Mahmoud Abbas (head of the Palestinian Authority) isn’t allowed into the US for the UN, whereas Israeli PM Netanyahu is scheduled to visit the White House. This selective access underlines the power America holds over the process and the diplomatic limits Palestinians face.

“It just shows the level of control that the US has over this situation.” – Katrina Perry [09:35]
Potential Fallout:
If Israel moves towards annexation of the West Bank, that could threaten the Abraham Accords (normalization deals), which are seen as part of Trump’s legacy—something he will be keen to protect.

“He will not want to upset that particular apple cart. So I think the Israelis are going to be treading carefully...” – James Landale [11:21]

4. Occupation vs. Annexation—Language and Implications

Key Distinction:
Landale breaks down the difference between 'occupation' (control or military presence in a territory) and 'annexation' (formal claim and change of legal status). Annexation of West Bank territory would essentially end hopes for a two-state solution.

“It would be seen as incredibly aggressive, effectively... making final the impossibility of a two-state solution.” – James Landale [12:23]
Changing Official Language:
The UK Foreign Office has already updated terminology—switching from “Occupied Palestinian Territories” to “Palestine”—marking an official policy shift.

“Some of the language will change, definitely.” – James Landale [13:20]

5. Inside the UN General Assembly: Atmosphere and Real Diplomacy

Lively, Unexpected Encounters:
Perry and Landale describe the UN General Assembly as “the Olympics of diplomacy”—full of chance meetings, traditional dress, and a compressed, vibrant power dynamic unique to these annual gatherings.

“It's basically the Olympics of diplomacy... you can actually wander in.” – James Landale [14:57]

6. Major UK Domestic Story: Reform UK’s Migration Policy

Proposal Details:
Reform UK proposes scrapping “indefinite leave to remain” (ILR)—an immigration status just below citizenship—retroactively and for future applicants. Existing ILR holders would have to reapply under stricter criteria every five years.

“There will be people... who are also going to have to reapply... different criteria, there will be tougher rules...” – Vicky Young [23:20]
Potential Impact:
Hundreds of thousands would be affected, potentially losing rights to reside and work, even after years in the country with families and jobs.

“The existing group of people here, which is like hundreds of thousands on indefinite leave to remain... would instantly get checked to see if they met the new thresholds.” – Adam Fleming [25:44]
Economic & Social Critique:
Reform's savings claims (£234 billion) are challenged as methodologically dubious and not recognized even by the report’s authors. Many migrants are also essential workers in health and social care.

“Be very, very wary of that £234 billion saving figure from Reform.” – Ben Chu [36:32]
Language Battles:
The show highlights how Reform are shifting the language debate, using “deportations” for broader removals, just as "lockdown" became ubiquitous during COVID-19.

“They're successfully kind of rewriting the words that are used in, in the conversation.” – Adam Fleming [41:00]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Symbolic Recognition:

“What we're seeing here really is the recognition of an idea that such a thing should exist. Such a thing could exist if there were to be peace...”
– James Landale [05:15]
On the Hope Factor:

“It gives hope, hope to that movement... ultimately, that's putting pressure on the United States.”
– Katrina Perry [07:57]
Diplomatic Sensitivities:

“If the British were to rush today to start sticking up large new Signs outside the consulate in East Jerusalem saying, this is now the embassy. That might be seen as slightly aggressive.”
– James Landale [04:53]
Global Gathering:

“This is basically the Olympics of diplomacy. You've got the entire world here all crammed in.”
– James Landale [14:57]
On the Migration Policy Shift:

“...talking about retrospectively taking away the right of people who came here legally and have been told they have a legitimate right to remain in this country.”
– Vicky Young [27:15]
On Language Evolution:

“They've... successfully kind of rewriting the words that are used in, in the conversation.”
– Adam Fleming [41:00]

Timestamps for Key Segments

[04:04] What does UK recognition of Palestine mean in practice?
[06:45] Is this recognition substantive or symbolic?
[07:55] International perspective: Arab countries, EU dynamics, pressure on the US
[09:35] US diplomatic gatekeeping and implications
[11:45] Differences between occupation and annexation
[13:20] Language changes: “Occupied Territories” to “Palestine”
[14:57] What it feels like inside the UN General Assembly
[23:20] Reform UK's immigration policy—scrapping “indefinite leave to remain”
[32:17] The numbers behind ILR, who is affected
[36:32] Fact-checking Reform UK's fiscal savings claims
[41:00] The politics of language: “deportation,” shifting narratives

Tone and Final Thoughts

The episode maintains Newscast’s trademark mix of friendly banter, historical perspective, and sharp policy analysis. The team keeps a conversational, approachable style even with complex subjects, always aware of both symbolic significance and practical realities.

The show wraps with the sense that:

The UK’s recognition of Palestine, while mostly symbolic for now, sends important signals globally and shifts diplomatic momentum.
Concrete, legal, and diplomatic outcomes will take considerable time; yet such gestures matter in the symbolic and political sphere.
On the home front, the immigration debate is intensifying—with language, numbers, and policy proposals all in flux.

Listeners are left ready to discuss these stories knowledgeably—just as the Newscast team intended.

Newscast – “What Has Changed After UK Recognises Palestine?”

BBC News Podcast, Hosted by Adam Fleming with Katrina Perry, James Landale, Vicky Young, and Ben Chu
Date: September 22, 2025

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What Does UK Recognition of Palestine Actually Mean?

Diplomatic Shifts:
James Landale explains that recognition by the UK will lead to technical differences, like the Palestinian mission in London becoming a formal embassy and its head gaining the title of ambassador. However, there are unresolved questions, e.g., what happens to Britain's Consulate General in East Jerusalem.

“There will be some technical differences... the Palestinian mission in London will, we expect, become a formal embassy.” – James Landale [04:04]
Symbolism vs. Substance:
There is no clear answer to who the UK would recognize as the Palestinian head of state, given the lack of contiguous borders, recognised capital, or unified leadership. Thus, the move is seen more as recognition of the idea of a Palestinian state.

"What we're seeing here really is the recognition of an idea that such a thing should exist... we're a long way away from that." – James Landale [05:15]

2. International Momentum and Symbolic Value

Pressure and Hope:
Katrina Perry shares that, for many in the Arab world, UK recognition gives hope and increases pressure especially on the US. This momentum is growing as other countries (e.g., Portugal, Australia, Canada) also join in.

“It gives hope, hope to that movement... ultimately, that's putting pressure on the United States.” – Katrina Perry [07:57]
EU and Global Dynamics:
The more EU member states that formally recognize Palestine, the more likely the bloc will move collectively. This could eventually lead to bigger actions such as trade embargoes, which might pressure Israel further.

“...that may lead to that ceasefire that seems so elusive as we're standing here talking right now.” – Katrina Perry [09:02]

3. The US Role and Diplomatic Logistics

American Gatekeeping:
Mahmoud Abbas (head of the Palestinian Authority) isn’t allowed into the US for the UN, whereas Israeli PM Netanyahu is scheduled to visit the White House. This selective access underlines the power America holds over the process and the diplomatic limits Palestinians face.

“It just shows the level of control that the US has over this situation.” – Katrina Perry [09:35]
Potential Fallout:
If Israel moves towards annexation of the West Bank, that could threaten the Abraham Accords (normalization deals), which are seen as part of Trump’s legacy—something he will be keen to protect.

“He will not want to upset that particular apple cart. So I think the Israelis are going to be treading carefully...” – James Landale [11:21]

4. Occupation vs. Annexation—Language and Implications

Key Distinction:
Landale breaks down the difference between 'occupation' (control or military presence in a territory) and 'annexation' (formal claim and change of legal status). Annexation of West Bank territory would essentially end hopes for a two-state solution.

“It would be seen as incredibly aggressive, effectively... making final the impossibility of a two-state solution.” – James Landale [12:23]
Changing Official Language:
The UK Foreign Office has already updated terminology—switching from “Occupied Palestinian Territories” to “Palestine”—marking an official policy shift.

“Some of the language will change, definitely.” – James Landale [13:20]

5. Inside the UN General Assembly: Atmosphere and Real Diplomacy

Lively, Unexpected Encounters:
Perry and Landale describe the UN General Assembly as “the Olympics of diplomacy”—full of chance meetings, traditional dress, and a compressed, vibrant power dynamic unique to these annual gatherings.

“It's basically the Olympics of diplomacy... you can actually wander in.” – James Landale [14:57]

6. Major UK Domestic Story: Reform UK’s Migration Policy

Proposal Details:
Reform UK proposes scrapping “indefinite leave to remain” (ILR)—an immigration status just below citizenship—retroactively and for future applicants. Existing ILR holders would have to reapply under stricter criteria every five years.

“There will be people... who are also going to have to reapply... different criteria, there will be tougher rules...” – Vicky Young [23:20]
Potential Impact:
Hundreds of thousands would be affected, potentially losing rights to reside and work, even after years in the country with families and jobs.

“The existing group of people here, which is like hundreds of thousands on indefinite leave to remain... would instantly get checked to see if they met the new thresholds.” – Adam Fleming [25:44]
Economic & Social Critique:
Reform's savings claims (£234 billion) are challenged as methodologically dubious and not recognized even by the report’s authors. Many migrants are also essential workers in health and social care.

“Be very, very wary of that £234 billion saving figure from Reform.” – Ben Chu [36:32]
Language Battles:
The show highlights how Reform are shifting the language debate, using “deportations” for broader removals, just as "lockdown" became ubiquitous during COVID-19.

“They're successfully kind of rewriting the words that are used in, in the conversation.” – Adam Fleming [41:00]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Symbolic Recognition:

“What we're seeing here really is the recognition of an idea that such a thing should exist. Such a thing could exist if there were to be peace...”
– James Landale [05:15]
On the Hope Factor:

“It gives hope, hope to that movement... ultimately, that's putting pressure on the United States.”
– Katrina Perry [07:57]
Diplomatic Sensitivities:

“If the British were to rush today to start sticking up large new Signs outside the consulate in East Jerusalem saying, this is now the embassy. That might be seen as slightly aggressive.”
– James Landale [04:53]
Global Gathering:

“This is basically the Olympics of diplomacy. You've got the entire world here all crammed in.”
– James Landale [14:57]
On the Migration Policy Shift:

“...talking about retrospectively taking away the right of people who came here legally and have been told they have a legitimate right to remain in this country.”
– Vicky Young [27:15]
On Language Evolution:

“They've... successfully kind of rewriting the words that are used in, in the conversation.”
– Adam Fleming [41:00]

Timestamps for Key Segments

[04:04] What does UK recognition of Palestine mean in practice?
[06:45] Is this recognition substantive or symbolic?
[07:55] International perspective: Arab countries, EU dynamics, pressure on the US
[09:35] US diplomatic gatekeeping and implications
[11:45] Differences between occupation and annexation
[13:20] Language changes: “Occupied Territories” to “Palestine”
[14:57] What it feels like inside the UN General Assembly
[23:20] Reform UK's immigration policy—scrapping “indefinite leave to remain”
[32:17] The numbers behind ILR, who is affected
[36:32] Fact-checking Reform UK's fiscal savings claims
[41:00] The politics of language: “deportation,” shifting narratives

Tone and Final Thoughts

The show wraps with the sense that:

The UK’s recognition of Palestine, while mostly symbolic for now, sends important signals globally and shifts diplomatic momentum.
Concrete, legal, and diplomatic outcomes will take considerable time; yet such gestures matter in the symbolic and political sphere.
On the home front, the immigration debate is intensifying—with language, numbers, and policy proposals all in flux.

Listeners are left ready to discuss these stories knowledgeably—just as the Newscast team intended.

wavePod

Powered by Wave AI

Summary

Newscast – “What Has Changed After UK Recognises Palestine?”

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What Does UK Recognition of Palestine Actually Mean?

2. International Momentum and Symbolic Value

3. The US Role and Diplomatic Logistics

4. Occupation vs. Annexation—Language and Implications

5. Inside the UN General Assembly: Atmosphere and Real Diplomacy

6. Major UK Domestic Story: Reform UK’s Migration Policy

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Tone and Final Thoughts

Summary

Newscast – “What Has Changed After UK Recognises Palestine?”

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What Does UK Recognition of Palestine Actually Mean?

2. International Momentum and Symbolic Value

3. The US Role and Diplomatic Logistics

4. Occupation vs. Annexation—Language and Implications

5. Inside the UN General Assembly: Atmosphere and Real Diplomacy

6. Major UK Domestic Story: Reform UK’s Migration Policy

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Tone and Final Thoughts