Laura Kuenssberg (2:22)

Hello, it's Laura in the studio for this Saturday's newscast. And as promised a fortnight ago, we're seems a long time ago now at the beginning of this war in Iran and the wider Middle east, we promised we would bring you every day the latest updates on what you need to know on what's happening on the ground in the conflict. And let's Go straight, therefore, to my colleague Frank Gardner, the BBC security correspondent, who is in Riyadh, the capital of Saudi Arabia, one of the many countries in the region that has come under attack. Hello, Frank.

Frank Gardner (2:53)

Hello, Laura. Hello.

Laura Kuenssberg (2:55)

Now, where you are right now, it's Iftar, which is the break of Ramadan. So before we get into the details of what's happened in the conflict, just what's it, what's it like where you are right now? What's the atmosphere?

Frank Gardner (3:06)

I'm going to be really honest with you. Here in Riyadh, you wouldn't know there was a war on. I'd love to tell you that I'm ducking into bunkers, but it really isn't true. This is because it's quite a long way from the actual coast of the Gulf, which has been taking a lot of the hits. So Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Dubai, etc. They, they've all taken a real pummeling in, particularly on their economic facilities. But Riyadh being the capital here, the Saudis are trying very hard to stay out of this. But they're not immune from it, as you rightly say. I mean, they. Yesterday, I think they intercepted about 18 incoming projectiles. Most of these have been aimed at the east of the country, at the oil producing part of the country. And I spent part of yesterday visiting the British Army Royal Artillery Air Defense Unit out in the desert, whose job it is to help protect some of the critical national infrastructure here in Saudi Arabia. Things I think people accept could probably get a whole lot worse. They don't want it to. They want this war to end. And they are in varying degrees of annoyance, they are furious with Iran, America and Israel.

Laura Kuenssberg (4:13)

But there is no sign of things calming down or de. Escalating. And in the last 24 hours, both Iran and the US have been hitting key oil facilities in the Middle East. And there was an intercepted drone strike hitting one of the Middle East's largest oil storage facilities, with, of course, all the consequences that there are from that. What happened there.

Frank Gardner (4:32)

So that's in a place called Fujairah. So everyone's heard of Dubai, everyone's heard of Abu Dhabi, but they are only 2 out of 7 emirates in what makes up the United Arab Emirates. The only one that's got a port outside the gulf in the Gulf of Oman on the Arabian Sea is Fujairah. And that was hit today by falling debris from an intercepted drone. And that's a worry because people on that side of the country thought they might well get through this without necessarily being hit. But that isn't the case. Even Oman, which argued really vociferously against this war, Oman has been hit even quite far down south. And that's extraordinary because Oman has gone to great lengths to not just stay neutral, they've stayed on good terms with Iran and they actually, the Foreign Minister flew to Washington, to D.C. right on the eve of all of this to try and persuade the Americans not to do it. And yet they've been hit too. So this war has spread very quickly from being military targets, US Bases in the region which Iran always said it would threaten to attack if it was attacked, to diplomatic and economic targets and civil targets, civilian targets.

Laura Kuenssberg (5:51)

And I just wonder, you know that region very well, but I feel like we're all getting to know the map, which maybe was a bit of a mystery to many of us thousands of miles away. But with all your experience of covering that region, Frank, are you surprised by the way in which Iran has expanded its attacks beyond, as you say, what they'd always said? If you hit us, we'll hit American bases in the region. Are you surprised at how they've retaliated?

Frank Gardner (6:17)

Yes, I am, definitely. I mean, this is my third Gulf War, the first one being 1991, Desert Storm, second one being 2003, the US led invasion of Iraq and now this one. And I think that there are going to be some really big long term changes, some kind of seismic shifts, because for most of these countries, there is no substitute to the United States as their big strategic partner and ally and provider of arms. But the problem for people in this region is that the United States has a very close relationship with Israel of a strategic partnership. And they see that. Many people here see that as a liability. Governments in this part of the world are often closer to Israel in some cases than they are to their own people. So, for example, under the Abraham Accords, you've got Bahrain and the uae. They've got full diplomatic and trade relations with Israel. They use a lot of Israeli tech. There are Israeli tourists in Dubai. But most people on the ground don't like Israel. They are very angry with what's happened in Gaza. They're not happy with what's happening in the west bank. And that is a liability for governments here. So there's no easy way out of this for the governments. They just want this to stop. And they've got, they've come to live with their great big neighbor, the Islamic Republic of Iran, just across the waters. They don't like the revolutionary nature of the Islamic Republic. They don't like the fact that Iran sponsors these proxy militias around the region, which it's governments here see as being very disruptive. Things like Hezbollah in Lebanon, the Houthis in Yemen, Hamas in Gaza and a whole host of proxies in Iraq. These are all in the eyes of governments here, troublemaking militias. But nevertheless, they would still rather have an uneasy peace with Iran than what's going on now because it's hurting their economies and it's hurting their tourist industries

Laura Kuenssberg (8:18)

and it really is potentially hurting absolutely everywhere. If the oil price stays as sky high, if this conflict runs on for a long time, and the latest American strikes on the other side, which America said it's, and I'm quoting, totally obliterated targets on Kharg island, which houses Iran's major oil terminal. I mean, do we know the extent of those attacks, Frank?

Frank Gardner (8:42)

What the Americans have done is to go after the military targets. So the bases that guard Kharag Island. Kharag island is important because it's the export terminal for 90% of Iran's oil. That's the lifeblood of the Iranian economy. Why does it have to come out through an island? Because the Gulf is quite shallow and big tankers, ocean going tankers, one's called VLCCs, that's very large crude carriers, they can't get close enough into the coast to take on board hundreds of thousands of barrels of oil. So instead they loaded at Hag Island. Now I'm old enough to remember that from the Iran Iraq tanker war of the 1980s. The Iraqi air force was constantly bombing that Kharg island terminal, trying to put it out of action. What the Americans have done is to attack the military targets on Kharg, but they say they've left untouched for now the oil facilities. Iran has said, well, if you do that, if you hit our oil facilities, we will turn to dust all sorts of, you know, US economic targets in the region. And the same time Donald Trump is saying, well, if you don't unblock the state of Hormuz, we will do this and that. We're gonna. There's a lot of kind of chess thumping going on here. You're gonna have to forgive the bit of noise in the background. It's iftar time, which is after the end of the day, the breaking of the fast, as you probably know. Yeah, it's Ramadan. Well, it's Ramadan everywhere, but particularly in Saudi Arabia.

Laura Kuenssberg (10:10)

It's nice to hear the sounds of normal life and people sounding like they might be managing to be cheerful at a time of great turmoil for their region. Just though, in all your experience of covering conflicts in that part of the world, seeing what we're all seeing now, Frank, do you have any sense that this might be in any way, shape or form close to an end? Because here in the uk, you know, government ministers are pretty petrified by how long this might go on for, with all the implications for the economy. Do you have any sense that it might be close to winding down?

Frank Gardner (10:42)

Well, I interviewed one of them yesterday, Yvette Cooper, our foreign secretary. She was, we followed her around in the desert as she visited this Royal Artillery unit that's doing air defense here. And I kind of put the same thing to her, actually. She was a bit equivocal about it. But the sense I got from her was that she was not nearly as optimistic as she was a week ago as to when this is going to end. I think the key here, look, the Israelis are going to carry on until they run out of ammunition. Frankly. Iran is playing the long game. They've been battered militarily. They know that they can't possibly match the might of the US Military. The key in all of this is that sooner or later Donald Trump is going to come under pressure from his own base, his MAGA base, who are going to say, hang on a minute, we voted you into office on the basis that you are not going to get the United States dragged into any more forever wars in the Middle East. And yet that is every week that goes by. We're now in the third week. Every week that goes by, it looks more and more like that is risking happening. So sooner or later they're going to have to, they're going to have to pull the plug on this. And yet that doesn't sit well with the dispatch from the Sea of Japan of this so called arg, this amphibious ready group which has been led by the USS Tripoli with over 2,000 US Marines on it. That is prompting speculation that Donald Trump is possibly considering landing on, invading and landing on Kharg island and trying to seize and hold it. My God, if that happens, there's going to be a lot of casualties. But what are you going to do? You're then going to set up an occupation force on it and suddenly you're into Iraq and, you know, into a kind of Iraq style occupation. And, you know, I think there is a parallel here, Laura, with the Blair years where there was some very quick, successful operations. Sierra Leone, Kosovo, they worked. And then came Afghanistan and then came Iraq and the UK along with the US got bogged down in years of, of occupation and insurgency. And there is that risk for the United States. If you decide to turn this into a ground war, it could be very bad. I mean, there's no question the US is hitting a lot of targets. But you can't measure this conflict in terms of targets hit. You measure it in terms of the survivability of the Iranian regime. And it only has to survive to say we've won. You threw everything you had at us. You gave it your best shot. And you know what? We're still here. The Islamic Republic's still here. So unless there's a mass uprising on the streets that does overthrow the Islamic Republic regime, then the US frankly, will lose this.

Laura Kuenssberg (13:33)

And one thing that's also happened, we're recording at 4:30 on Saturday afternoon. But one thing that's also happened today. Donald Trump has urged the UK and other countries to send ships to to help protect the Strait of Hormuz, that vital waterway. You spoke to the Foreign Secretary yesterday, Frank. In my experience of speaking to UK politicians, I cannot imagine that that request is going to be fulfilled or something. That is a tempting option for the UK government. But what do you think the UK would be likely to say to that request?

Frank Gardner (14:07)

Probably that we don't have any ships left to do it. I mean, you know, we've got a tiny navy. It's absolutely miniature, minuscule compared to what it used to be. And Britain used to have a naval presence in Bahrain. This was minesweepers. Britain's big contribution to security in the Gulf was minesweepers. It dates right back to that Iran Iraq War that I mentioned earlier, the one in the 1980s. It was something called the A.R. miller Patrol. And the Royal Navy had a specific expertise that the Americans didn't have, which was clear in the Strait of Hormuz of Mines, because back then in the mid to late 1980s, the Iranians, and it was the Islamic Republic then were laying minds there. So this isn't new. You know, there's kind of. This is history repeating itself.

Laura Kuenssberg (14:51)

Frank, that's really interesting. Thank you so much for joining us. And it's lovely to see, actually a beautiful image of you in Riyadh looking like normal life, families going about their business, having a pleasant evening, enjoying the world, even though there is such time, turmoil and danger in other parts of that region. So thank you very much indeed for briefing us here on weekend Newscast. Worth remembering, too, it's only seven days ago since Donald Trump told Keir Starmer he didn't need anything from the UK he didn't need any of its aircraft carriers or anything else because the war had already been won. But that was seven days ago. And my goodness, these days, seven days can be incredibly eventful. Frank, thank you so much indeed for joining us on Saturday's newscast.

Frank Gardner (15:35)

Thank you.

Laura Kuenssberg (15:35)

Let us then zoom across the world from Riyadh in Saudi Arabia to our man in Moscow, where of course, people have been digesting the decision from the Trump White House to relax some of the restrictions on Russia's ability to sell oil. Our man there, of course, is none other than the excellent Steve Rosenberg. Steve, hello.

Steve Rosenberg (15:56)

Hello, Laura.

Laura Kuenssberg (15:56)

Great to have you with us. What a treat for a weekend newscast. Now, we've mentioned the easing of some of these sanctions on Russian oil. So give us a prime framer on what's actually happened, then we'll talk about what it means.

Steve Rosenberg (16:10)

So what America has done, it has announced a waiver on purchasing sanctioned Russian oil, a 30 day waiver, basically authorizing allowing countries to buy Russian sanctioned oil that is currently stranded at sea or in transit at sea at the moment. The Americans have made it clear this is a narrowly focused, temporary measure just lasting 30 days. The idea being to kind of calm the global energy markets. But it's hugely symbolic and it sets a precedent because when you think about it, over the last four years, ever since the, the full scale Russian invasion of Ukraine, so many sanctions, so many international sanctions, thousands and thousands of them, have been imposed on Moscow. So the easing of, of sanctions on Russian oil, even if the Americans are saying this is a limited measure, the Russians aren't going to earn a lot of money from this, this is hugely symbolic. And Russian commentators, yesterday I was watching in the state media, they were making this point and their hope is that this is the sign of something bigger and that this will lead to further sanctions relief for Moscow.

Laura Kuenssberg (17:24)

So President Trump, by doing this, has given Russia something of a propaganda victory in a sense.

Steve Rosenberg (17:32)

Absolutely, yes. The Russian officials and Russian commentators were making the point yesterday that this is proof that the world can't do without Russian oil and proof of the importance of Russia. So that was playing very positively domestically here in Russia. And added to that, you've got the fact that oil prices are so high at the moment and this is providing a windfall for the Russian authorities just when it needed it, because the Russian economy has been under increasing pressure after four years of war on Ukraine, after four years of international sanctions, really, the cracks were showing and the Russian budget deficit was growing. Lots of economic indicators were very negative for the Russian authorities, suddenly oil prices have shot up to, you know, $100 plus. And that means that the Russian budget is earning much more money and more money, more resources. That means more money, the Kremlin to continue its war in Ukraine.

Laura Kuenssberg (18:40)

So it's a cash bung and also a political prize for the Kremlin. But then in Kiev, I mean, this must provoke, get more suspicion that actually the White House is playing both sides. They're actually quite sympath to Vladimir Putin rather than just doing everything they can to help Ukraine bring the conflict to an end. What have they said?

Steve Rosenberg (19:03)

Well, I think, yeah, the idea was certainly, as far as Ukraine thought, that pressure on the Russian economy, sanctions on Russian oil, were designed to pressure the Kremlin into coming to the table and making a peace deal with Kiev. But there's a great sense of disappointment from what I read in Ukraine and also across Europe, that the Americans have taken this decision to ease sanctions. I mean, not only in Ukraine, just reading what President Macron has said, Chancellor, the German chancellor too, they are kind of shocked by the decision to ease these sanctions, even though the Americans say it's a temporary measure. I think the feeling across Europe is that, you know, this is very good for Moscow and financially, symbolically, it's one of the many benefits I think certainly in the short term for Russia from what is happening in Iran right now. There are other benefits too, in the fact that the focus of America and Americans is really, of course, naturally on what's happening with the Iran war. And so the focus has moved away slightly from what's happening in Ukraine. I think that suits the Russians just fine. And some of the Russian newspapers this week have been writing that, you know, some of the weapons that perhaps the Americans would have transferred to Ukraine, perhaps they won't be transferring because they've been used in the Middle East. So for a number of reasons, I think the Russians are pleased at the moment. The other thing is that this allows the Kremlin to try to portray itself as being useful, being a solution to a global problem. The Russians are saying, okay, the energy markets are very unstable at the moment. Well, we've got all this Russian oil. Russia can do something positive and stable and stabilize the global energy market. So instead of Russia being seen as the problem in the world, Russia can now try to portray itself as the solution to a problem. So there is this sort of diplomatic, geopolitical aspect to, and it's worth remembering,

Laura Kuenssberg (21:22)

you know, it's only a couple of weeks ago since there were calls and a determination from the government here in the UK to say I will board Russian ships, deal with the shadow fleet much more. You know, those Russian ships with oil on them that were sometimes sailing under other countries flags around the seas. And now we have a situation where as you say, you know, the White House has sort of invited the country that was meant to be a pariah. But back in to present perhaps some of the solution to a different global crisis with the war raging in Iran. We know also that this decision came after another call between Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump. It's interesting you say that the Iran war is actually playing quite well for Russia in some ways. But I just wonder how extensive do you think the links between Russia and Iran really are? You know, we've talked a lot on weekend newscast about that access of authoritarian countries as the former boss of NATO told us they were a couple of years ago. And I remember it was so chilling. Last year it was reported that some missiles landing in Ukraine had made in Tehran on the side. What really is the extent of the country's links, do you think?

Steve Rosenberg (22:33)

Well, we know that at the start of Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine, the Russians were getting lots of drones, attack drones from, from the Iranians. So that's no secret. Look, Russia and Iran have a compreh comprehensive strategic partnership agreement that the presidents of Russia and Iran signed. I think it was in January of last year. In a sense, the international situation pushed the two countries closer together. Both are under Western sanctions, both have deteriorating relationships with the west. And that kind of produced this strategic partnership agreement which deals with all kinds of things from the economy to culture, cooperation in science and also in security. It's not a mutual defense pact. So it's not a question that the Russian army will come to the aid of Iran in this situation. However, this agreement does talk about intelligence sharing, for example, military technical cooperation. So certainly from comments that President Trump made this week, he seems to think perhaps the Russians have been helping the Iranians a little bit. But you know, the Russians are very much focused on their war on Ukraine. You know, for Vladimir Putin, that is his priority at the moment. And that's what he's, what Russia is putting all its resources into, I think.

Laura Kuenssberg (24:08)

And that sentiment that there might be the hand of Moscow behind some of this is something that's been expressed by British politicians too. So Russia has been part of the political conversation around Iran. So it's interesting to see. You know, it's interesting to hear you say that actually Ukraine absolutely remains the focus even though there are connections between the two countries.

Steve Rosenberg (24:27)

Also, Laura, I think what's interesting is, yeah, Ukraine is the focus, but also it's clear that Vladimir Putin wants to retain good relations with Donald Trump. It's an interesting balancing act for him. I think the Russians believe that this relationship with the Trump administration is a key one and can actually benefit Moscow with its main goal and that is, you know, prevailing in the war on Ukraine. And so that's why we haven't heard Donald Trump or we haven't heard Vladimir Putin publicly criticize, personally criticize Donald Trump over the Iran war. We just haven't heard it. We've heard some Russian commentators being very critical about what's happening in the Gulf, in the Middle east, and we've heard some Russian, we've read some quite critical things in the Russian newspapers. One newspaper this week said that Donald Trump had lost his mind. We haven't heard any kind of language like that from Vladimir Putin. And the reason is he wants to retain good relations. Most of the criticism actually coming from Moscow this week has been directed not at Washington, but at Europe. Lots of criticism of European leaders for their criticism of America, easing sanctions on Russian oil.

Laura Kuenssberg (25:43)

All these layers of danger and complexities in the jigsaw of the world that we now live in. Steve, I just want to ask you about something else, can explain to newscasters also, if they haven't seen it yet, that not very long ago there's an excellent documentary about how you have to operate as a journalist. And that's not being self indulgent or not just saying that because I think you're marvelous and you're a friend of mine. But it's a really interesting and revelatory kind of study, if you like, of what it's like as a journalist working in a country that does not believe in the free press, a country that's had a huge impact of on us here in the UK with its decisions to invade illegally another country on the edges of our continent. So I just wonder at the moment, can you share with us what it's like in Russia right now?

Steve Rosenberg (26:32)

It's a strange existence as a Western journalist, as a British journalist in Russia right now, because on the one hand, yeah, things aren't easy. There's a lot of anti Western rhetoric, anti British rhetoric in the state media here. And, you know, relations with the UK seem to get worse and worse and that has a knock on effect for us. On the other hand, I should say that we're still invited to Kremlin events and from time to time I've still had the opportunity, certainly over the last two or three years, to ask a question to Vladimir Putin at press conferences. So that's a good thing. And even better in most of my interactions with ordinary Russians on the streets, when we visit towns and villages, cities across the country, most of those interactions are positive. I don't feel that that anti Western narrative that you hear in the state media is sort of trickling down and affecting what people think of the west, because I find, you know, most of the Russians we meet and speak to are interested in what is happening in the West. People come up to me sometimes to shake my hand and ask for selfies and. And that's such a contrast with the sort of the tsunami of anti Western rhetoric that you hear in the media.

Laura Kuenssberg (27:58)

And is it possible at all, and maybe this is too, too complicated a question to answer, but is it possible at all to gauge the level of political, I suppose, resistance or distress, if you like, at how Putin behaves? Of course, there is a very effective, strong propaganda machine that comes out. The Russian government, of course, there are many people who back what he is doing, but there are also, you know, outside Russia, from time to time, we talk to Russian opposition voices who speak so powerfully about how some people want an end to the. The regime or the government that puts such pressure on its peace people, locks up its opponents and behaves in all sorts of terrifying ways. Can you at all give us a sense of where the balance is in Russian public opinion?

Steve Rosenberg (28:50)

I think so. One of the most surprising things, perhaps, is that despite the current situation and the tension between Russia and the west, still many Russians are willing to speak to us on the streets. And the box pop. In my job, box pop has become such an important way of gauging public opinion, the sort of extended box pop. And there are still plenty of questions you can ask Russians, I think, in a safe way, not to get them into trouble, but to find out what the mood of the country is. And there's no doubt, you know, from the conversations we have with people across the country that there is this deep fatigue with the. What's still referred to as the special military operation, but what everyone calls a war. It's starting to affect people in a way that it didn't affect the mass of the population before. Maybe a couple of years ago, many Russians tried to pretend that this wasn't happening, this war on Ukraine. They saw it on their television sets, but perhaps it didn't affect them directly in their lives. And so they kind of pushed it out of their minds. And tried to get on with their lives. And the economy was kind of functioning okay for the first two or three years. The Kremlin managed to keep things going. There's a definite sense now that the economy has been faltering, which is why this windfall from oil and gas, from oil is going to be so useful for the government here. But also, more and more Russians tell us that they know people, neighbors, friends, friends of friends, relatives who have been fighting in Ukraine and sometimes being killed in Ukraine. Most of the towns we visit have cemeteries with special sections devoted to Russian soldiers who've been killed in Ukraine. There are new monuments in towns across the country dedicated to soldiers killed in Ukraine. So it's becoming very hard now for people to pretend this isn't happening. And the reality is beginning to dawn on people, and what there isn't amongst the population is a sense that they can influence what's happening. I think maybe in 1991, when I moved to Moscow to work, the Soviet Union collapsed and you had huge crowds on the street. There was this sense of people power, that the people could influence the direction their country moves in. There isn't that sense now. And so many Russians are sort of hunkering down and hoping that this war will be over sometime soon. People use the word mir a lot with this peace, perhaps less than the word victory.

Laura Kuenssberg (31:34)

Steve, thank you so much for speaking to us this afternoon and explaining how Russia has become not just a country marked by war, but also a country involved indirectly and directly through the oil trades in this new conflict in the Middle east, which has just passed its fortnight mark. Steve, I have to ask also this. What are you practicing on the piano at the moment? Some newscasters will know you from your reporting, but also from your amazing musical talent.

Steve Rosenberg (32:00)

That's an easy one. I'm practicing this year's Eurovision entries.

Laura Kuenssberg (32:03)

Amazing.

Steve Rosenberg (32:05)

I'm going to do a medley of all the entries. So I need a bit of craziness to kind of distract me from the.

Laura Kuenssberg (32:12)

From the day job, from the other craziness. Come back and play them to us all on newscast. We must have a Steve Rosenberg Pop Piano Marathon. Thank you so much, Steve, for talking to us today. It's great to have you.

Steve Rosenberg (32:24)

Thanks, Laura. Take care.

Laura Kuenssberg (32:25)

Now, we've heard from Moscow, we've heard from Riyadh, but let's take things closer to home because we know lots of you do, particularly in Northern Ireland, where so many people are reliant on it, are very worried about the rocketing price of heating oil. Paddy's been on the hunt for that as a story today. And we'll hear all about his adventures tomorrow. But David is one of the people who's been in touch with us from deepest Suffolk. His description, not ours. David says the price of gas won't affect heating bills for several months. But heating oil is not capped. In the last week, it's already gone from 60p per litre to. To 133p per litre, an immediate increase of 120%. And actually, we've heard from newscasters and other people talking to the BBC around the country. In some places their increases have been even steeper than that. Now, in the last few hours, what we understand from the government is that as soon as this week, Rachel Reeves is going to announce some support, some cash, for people who are reliant on heating oil. I understand that there will be tens of millions of pounds, so not a huge bazooka, but also not just some small change, but tens of millions of pounds will be made available to what's known as the Crisis and Resilience Fund. Essentially, that's a pot of cash that's held by local councils. And wherever you are in the uk, if you are being hammered by heating oil costs going up, you'll be able to apply to that fund to get some help with that bill. But we won't know the full details of that from the treasury until Monday. But sources tell me that support is on the way. But that raises huge questions about how the Government might step in if the oil price stays really high, if energy bills start to go up and up. And that's something we'll definitely be talking a lot about tomorrow on the program, on the telly in the morning. Patty will be talking about it on the radio and I'll be joined live by Ed Miliband, the Energy Secretary, in the studio. So lots to talk about with him. Do send us your questions and comments. As ever, it's been very nice to be with you on Saturday's newscast. I've missed my mucker, Patty o', Connell, in the chair opposite, but delighted to be joined by Frank Gardner and Steve Rosenberg. And we'll look forward to talking to you again tomorrow afternoon. Bye for now. Newscast, newscast from the BBC, you've come

Steve Rosenberg (34:41)

to the end of newscast. Some people, and you know who I mean, might say you ooze stamina. Can I encourage you to subscribe on BBC and you can get in touch with us anytime. Email us@newscastbc.co.uk, you can WhatsApp us on 0301-239-480.

Frank Gardner (35:07)

We focus on the part of the Internet that most people don't know about. It's called the Dark Web.

Podcast Narrator (35:12)

Undercover in the furthest corners of the Dark Web, US special agents are on a mission to locate and rescue children from abuse. Move in now from the BBC World Service World of Secrets. The Darkest Web follows their shocking investigations. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.