← Growth In Reverse: Newsletter & Email Growth
Growth In Reverse: Newsletter & Email Growth
Brutally Honest Newsletter Roast: What Works, What Doesn't, and What to Fix
00:34:41
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- [00:00]
A
Hello and welcome back to the Growth in Reverse podcast. I'm Chanel.
- [00:03]
B
And I'm Jillin.
- [00:04]
A
And recently we asked for some submissions to have your newsletter roasted live on air. And so today I want to share our first one of those with you. We're going to be walking through Darren Smith, who has submitted his Craftsman Films newsletter to be roasted by me and Dylan. And we haven't done this before, so I'm excited to kind of just ramble on about what we think he can improve and how he can better grow and optimize his newsletter. So, yeah, I think we're just gonna jump right into it.
- [00:33]
B
Yeah, let's do it. Thanks, Darren, for submitting this and being kind of a guinea pig to our first ever newsletter roast too. That's. It's pretty, it's pretty fun, exciting. And I think we mentioned in the, in one of our last episodes that we're not going to be, I think, too harsh, but at the same time we want to be constructive and help you out. So, yeah, I'm excited to get into this and I think if you do want your newsletter roasted, email us or email chanel chanel@growthinreverse.com or you can go to, I think growth reverse.com roast I believe is the. The form and fill that out and get a chance to have your newsletter roasted as well.
- [01:12]
A
So. All right, so Darren's newsletter is. And actually if you're listening to this, I'm not sure it's going to be a great experience. We're going to try and make it a really good audio only experience and talk through everything extra if you're not looking. But you can go to CraftsmanFilms Co, which is where his newsletter and website lives. But this is also going to be on YouTube. So if you're not over on YouTube yet, we just cracked a thousand subscribers there, which is so exciting. So come join us there if you'd like to see the full roast. Okay, so let's get into it. So Darren submitted craftsmanfilms Co Join as his newsletter landing page. Um, and yeah, I mean, if you're looking at this, the first thing we see is Join Craftsman Films is the headline. And then there's a giant image of an arrow pointing down and it takes up the whole screen.
- [02:00]
B
The whole screen. It. You know what, like if you're, if you're zoomed like at 100% browser, like you got to scroll down to see the whole image. So it is big, really big.
- [02:09]
A
And then there's a caption with the unslash tag. So right away, giving links out to another website. Right, right on the page. Which isn't necessarily ideal, but I'm glad you're giving some props to the person who created the image.
- [02:22]
B
Yes. Giving the credits. That's nice.
- [02:24]
A
Yes, exactly. Yeah. So I don't know, I mean, from my perspective that there's a lot that can be done here. My mind's actually going 100 miles a minute because there's like. So it's the Join Craftsman Films is the headline. Then there's this massive image. And then, um, the tagline reads, whether you're an investor interested, interested in learning how to profitably invest in independent film, or a filmmaker looking to get to the next level in your career, that's what we help with. And then it says investors. If you're an investor and would like to learn about indie film, join here to get weekly emails about the process. Then he has a kit form embedded below that with another image.
- [03:01]
B
We should also call out that. There's like a little button that's a sticky button that says Join Craftsman Films on the bottom right. And there's also at the very top of the landing page, a subscribe button in the nav menu, which is fine if you want to click one of those, see what happens, maybe. Okay, so he's got some.
- [03:18]
A
He's using Ghost for sure.
- [03:19]
B
Yep, he's using Ghost. And then also you've got three kind of subscription options with your name, email, and then there's like a duck down to see past my camera. It's like a $0 option, 199 per year option, and a 4. 95 per year option.
- [03:33]
A
Right.
- [03:33]
B
So, um, I guess, yeah, we can close that up. But my. I don't know about you, Chanel. My first thought is just get rid of that image entirely.
- [03:41]
A
Like 100%.
- [03:42]
B
Let's get rid of that. I would build this more like a traditional landing page where above the fold you see the head, the. Maybe the name of the newsletter or at very least an enticing headline to why you'd want to join the newsletter. And then a enter your email address field and a submit. Of course, you'd want some social proof if you have some. And another like, you know, get smarter about creating profitable indie films. Kind of like, you know, that's off the cuff sort of a sub headline, but you'd want something there to really kind of just entice people to join.
- [04:10]
A
Yeah, agreed. Um, so I took the liberty of just editing this real quick. So if we remove the. If we Remove the giant image. This already looks so much better. Um, yeah, I would honestly perspective, you have way too much going on here for this landing page. Um, we probably just want to get rid of this whole header. Mm bar at the top and just have join. Well, this should be changed too, but we can get there. So have the headline standalone at the top. Get rid of the book call out at the top. I know that's exciting. Congrats on launching a book. But on this newsletter join forum, we really just want them to join the newsletter. So I would probably just scroll down here and have it start somewhere about there.
- [04:50]
B
I was just gonna say if you scroll down, get rid of that nav menu, it looks. That looks even already a lot better. And some hierarchy would be good here too.
- [04:56]
A
Um, and then you can even embed the form. Well, first he's asking for first name and email address, which is fine. Um, it's definitely going to like lower conversions, which isn't always a bad thing. Like sometimes you want more people or less people to join, but have them be more interested and like purse, I don't know, you know, like, they actually want to take that time to fill out both fields. Um, I'm a big fan of just doing email address, but you do lose that personalization on the back end. So there's that.
- [05:28]
B
Um, I wonder, Chanel, what you would think if he just removed everything above that kind of built in form.
- [05:33]
A
Yeah.
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B
Or you could, you could have just in beside that image of the cinema. The headline could be join Craftsman films. And then to learn how to profitably invest in indie films. Could be the subheading. And then that's your. That's your like focus. That's your landing page right there.
- [05:46]
A
Yeah, I'm always a big fan of just getting rid of images that don't serve the purpose. And I don't know that the cinema one does either. Um, if it was a picture of you, you know, maybe a lead magnet that you're giving away or something relevant that they're going to see in the future or like on the next page. I think that's a good way to use an image. But just having one there, because there was an image field maybe is kind of forcing it. But then also actually if we keep scrolling down, there's like he's calling out other potential people who want to sign up. So there's a heading that says investors. And it's just like if you're an investor, then filmmakers. If you're a producer or filmmaker, we have resources. I feel like this is too much for a landing page, for an opt in.
- [06:29]
B
I think you get people in kind of a wider funnel and then segment them once they're in. And I believe Darren does do a bit of segmentation once you're in. I wonder if that's a, maybe a better approach or maybe you just need to focus one of these two audiences.
- [06:44]
A
Or just call them out in a. If you're an investor or filmmaker, we share weekly emails. So I'm always a fan of having like one call out, like a headline of what people are going to get. Not join craftsman films. Maybe it's weekly indie film content. I mean something that tells them what they're going to get. And then in the smaller text below that you can kind of call out who it's for and like maybe a little bit more about what they're getting. But one to two sentences max. I probably lean in with one if you could. Yeah. This feels like a lot.
- [07:18]
B
I think I just ate a fungus. Gnat just flew into my mouth. So it happens when you have too many plants. But what I was going to say was two things. One, you mentioned the image and something that's more relevant. Just going back to that really quickly is Darren's face maybe might be relevant if people, if he's somewhat well known in the space, maybe his face or an image of him perhaps producing movies because he's produced quite a few medium budget indie movies. So that's one thing. The other thing is, you know, the elf in the room is like, Darren, you've produced medium sized indie films. Why are you not saying that here? Why are you not using that as like a reason for people to subscribe to this? Like you've been in the trenches, you've done this, you know what, what it takes and what goes on and how to do this. So I think a little bit of credibility or authority, um, a line about that would be very, very much helpful to get people to buy in. Right on this landing page.
- [08:17]
A
Yeah, definitely. You're 100% right on calling that out. Um, it should just be a picture of Darren, like behind the scenes Darren, like filming or doing something. Yeah, I think that would be amazing.
- [08:29]
B
Yeah.
- [08:30]
A
Because this, this whole page leaves out his experience and why people should listen to him. Exactly what you just said. I love that. Yeah, it should just be a picture of Darren and say like I've produced X number of films, blank dollar million budgets and every week I share tips and behind the scenes stories and ways that you can be a better investor and filmmaker in the space or something.
- [08:52]
B
Right. That's like. I'm. Like, I'm in. I'm. I'm actually just kind of curious what that life's like without being interested in this industry at all. Like, that. That's got me.
- [09:00]
A
That's got me hooked a hundred percent. So I think if we can just clean this up a lot. Yeah. I kind of wonder if he's double using this page as a newsletter, opt in form and a join my $495 a year founding membership. So I think we need to separate those and just focus on the one goal, which is getting people on the newsletter. You can create another page that is focused around getting them to upgrade later on, but I think getting them to your free content first is a great way to go. What do you think about that?
- [09:29]
B
I totally agree. I don't want. I think you're trying to do chasing too many rabbits here and people are just gonna not catch any of them. So I think what you could do is just focus and then drive people down a funnel later. Now I think you should subscribe and see what that experience is like on the front end. Live here, Chanel. At least from the point where what happened. Oh, and we're pulling it. Yeah. Let's go mobile here. Why not? Let's do it.
- [09:53]
A
Okay.
- [09:54]
B
Why don't we do it on the mobile version?
- [09:55]
A
Yeah. I just want to walk through this and just to, like, hammer this home. So the. The giant picture that I deleted from this page, it actually does look better on mobile. It's much smaller. Still think you could get rid of it? Still continuing to get rid of the Cinema one. And honestly, I feel like. Like this is me being picky, but the font colors and the fonts are just not the same. And so I'm a big fan of having everything be the same font, same colors. All of that just keep people from getting whiplash. But if you look at the. The text on the homepage, it's like really long on mobile. And then once you get to the bottom, there's no sign up. So if he were to continue to keep this page as is and said, you guys are completely wrong, I'm just going to leave it. I. I would at least put a button at the bottom to, like, sign up for email. So that's one thing I did want to call out so we can go through the actual process if you want to. So since we've now talked about my email address a number of times on this, I'm okay with sharing it here.
- [10:51]
B
Y'all Know it.
- [10:52]
A
Now I'm gonna go ahead and subscribe to his newsletter. And we get to another giant image.
- [11:00]
B
Uh, the often overlooked thank you page.
- [11:03]
A
So for those listening, it has a headline that says thank you, and then there is a giant image that takes up the whole screen with like a neon sign on a wall that says, thank you.
- [11:14]
B
Two thank yous.
- [11:15]
A
Two thank yous. You're welcome, Darren. And okay, so he does do some good things here. He has. Welcome to Craftsman Film. So glad to have you join us. Make sure to check your inbox. Oh, be sure to check your inbox to make sure the email we sent ended up where you hoped it would. And then he has some links to other recent posts. I imagine four of these.
- [11:36]
B
And then bottom right corner there as well. That little toaster pop up.
- [11:39]
A
And then he has the right message customization form. So if you're not familiar, Right Message is a tool you can use to kind of get more data and personalized information from people who sign up for your emails. So I use this as well. It's a great way to. Like, now he knows there's some cookie on the back end that knows. That was my email address. If I click on one of these. And the three options are, I want to make profitable films. I'm interested in investing in films or just exploring the film industry. So I'll click on that one.
- [12:10]
B
That's when I clicked on too.
- [12:12]
A
And then it actually asked me to subscribe again.
- [12:14]
B
Yes. So that's confusing. And I wanted to call this out as well because he needs to update his right message here because it says joint Craftsman films. But the smaller text says, get help along your filmmaking journey with a complimentary copy of the book Blockbuster How Independent Creators Can Build Massively Profitable Businesses. So that sounds cool. Like if you're in this industry and you want that. That. But it's also misleading because it says join Craftsman Films. You enter your name and your email address and the Call to action button to submit, it says, join Craftsman Films again. So it's like, well, am I joining the newsletter or am I getting the Blockbuster book? So that needs to be tweaked so that it's very clear on what you're getting. And not joining the newsletter twice.
- [12:53]
A
Yeah, well. And also write message. You can set it up so it only there are different flows. So if, like, I just subscribed, so I am now a subscriber. And so I should not be seeing this. This should not. This should be hidden from me completely. So that's actually interesting that it Kind of showed there. So I wonder if that button that I just clicked is going to be tagged to my current subscriber record or not. So I'm not sure, but sure.
- [13:18]
B
What do you mean by that? This shouldn't be visible. If you are now a subscriber, which part of it shouldn't be visible to you?
- [13:23]
A
So I'm on the thank you page. Like I literally just subscribed to the. The email address or the email newsletter. So I shouldn't be getting another form to join.
- [13:30]
B
Right. And so my thought is one of those three options that were in the right message pop up the one you picked. The other two might go somewhere different, but the one you picked goes to some he. Like he wanted to send you somewhere. And so the call to action for that option is to get that Blockbuster book a free copy of that book. But my thought is like, it's very confusing when it looks like you have to. Oh, geez.
- [13:53]
A
Oh boy. Okay, we found a little issue here. So for those not watching, I re entered my information just because I wanted to like, see if it would send me something different. And we got a he. I guess the URL is broken because there's supposed to be HTTPs colon and it's missing the colon. And actually it's.
- [14:11]
B
Is it doubled up?
- [14:12]
A
Yeah, that's. So it should go here.
- [14:14]
B
We're saving you some money here. We'll send you an invoice in the mail.
- [14:17]
A
Yeah. Okay, so this does go somewhere else. But I guess what my point is, like on a thank you page, you shouldn't be asking someone to subscribe again. It should just be focused on getting them to the email to actually confirm or do whatever they're going to do. And Dylan, you had said. Oh, wait. Okay, so now I got the double opt in. Interesting. Okay, let me pull this up here.
- [14:39]
B
So I like his double opt in subject line.
- [14:41]
A
Complete your sign up to Craftsman films with an exclamation point.
- [14:45]
B
I guess I like it in that it's not please confirm your subscription. Like it's at least a little bit something that stands out in your inbox.
- [14:50]
A
To drive this point home. So this was the second email I signed up with in that second box. So I don't believe that I got a double opt in for the other one, which is kind of interesting. No, I did not. So I'm wondering if it's something's up on my end or maybe I have previously subscribed and moved it to my newsletter inbox. I'm not sure.
- [15:11]
B
Oh yeah, might have a Filter on.
- [15:13]
A
Okay. So I'm clicking the confirm, subscribe, confirm sign up button to say, like, yes, I want to be added. And then I go to the same thank you page again with the same box popping up in the corner. Probably want to mess with this flow just a little bit to make sure we're keeping people, I don't know, engaged and not confused.
- [15:33]
B
Yeah, this could be optimized a little bit.
- [15:34]
A
Yeah, I think so. But the fact that he has some of this setup is good. So I think there's, like, just room to go up.
- [15:41]
B
Yeah.
- [15:42]
A
Would.
- [15:42]
B
Would we recommend again getting rid of that big thank you image?
- [15:45]
A
Oh, for sure.
- [15:45]
B
Or. Or at least making it very honestly, much smaller.
- [15:48]
A
I'm gonna pull. This is not the best one. I. I need to update this before I use this as an example again, but. Cause I think I do this all the time. I'm like, oh, this is what mine looks like. Okay. So mine is this page where I just say, like, hey, it's me, and I'm waving. There's a picture of me. It says, hey, you made it. Happy you're here. And then I, like, reiterate what you're getting. Case you forgot by the time you clicked through on that link. And then I have some latest issues, and this font is huge. I need to fix this. The point is, I'm, like, helping people continue to go down a rabbit hole, which he did. He did do this. Although I think there is room to have another behind the scenes image of Darren and say, like, hey, just a reminder, like, I'm super excited to share my experience with you and then send them the Blockbuster book if it's. I don't know. Is it free? I guess I kind of thought the.
- [16:33]
B
PDF version appears to be free. Yep.
- [16:35]
A
Okay, so maybe he can just send that as, like, a surprise and delight email. And you actually got a welcome email, right?
- [16:40]
B
Yeah.
- [16:41]
A
Oh, wait, I just got it. Hold on.
- [16:42]
B
There you go, talking too fast.
- [16:44]
A
Okay, here we go.
- [16:45]
B
Turn on your images.
- [16:46]
A
I don't want to.
- [16:47]
B
Oh, wait. Oh, okay. Say I should. I'm not sure if there's any images in it now that I'm looking.
- [16:52]
A
Okay, so his subject line is good, welcome to Craftsman films. It's at least customized, potentially have more enticing verbiage, but I think it's good. Um, and then he go. He says, it's the date, which is kind of interesting. And it's in this nice, like, written font, like typewriter font. Welcome to a weekly Craftsman Films newsletter for those who seek to create profitable Indie films and build blockbuster businesses. I guess that's probably a link to the book. Yeah. Well, let's keep going with this before we go there. You're in. Welcome to Craftsman Films. Hit reply on this and any future emails. If you have questions, housekeeping items, you know, like, if your provider needs you to screen in email addresses. What does that mean?
- [17:34]
B
I think. I think Darren's a big user of hey.com and I think that might be something to do with, like, that sort of screen in sort of thing. So if you've got a pretty strict inbox email client that you're working with, then that's probably what he's referencing.
- [17:46]
A
Got it?
- [17:46]
B
Yeah.
- [17:47]
A
Okay. Can you take this quick poll? Okay, this is interesting. So he has a poll that says which of the following best describes you? And there's two options. The first one says, I'm a filmmaker, producer, director, writer, actor, et cetera. One or I'm a current or aspiring film investor or executive producer. If you remember, on the right message box, there was a third option that was I'm just interested in the film business, I think. And that's what I clicked because I'm not either of these things. So I almost wonder if there's a opportunity to do, like, other or that third option. I'm just interested in the business because, I don't know, you're leaving me out here, which isn't a bad thing.
- [18:22]
B
I'm.
- [18:23]
A
I'm not like the super target audience. But if you have it on one box, you might want to have it on a. This one too. Um, okay, so then it says, actually, I really want to click one of these and see if I get something.
- [18:34]
B
I. I'd say click them both, see what happens. See if there's a different experience.
- [18:38]
A
I don't know if it's going to let me. Okay, so I clicked on. Oops. I clicked on I'm a filmmaker, and it took me to their podcast, again with the giant image. Um, I don't know if this is a ghost thing and it's like, hard to change the size or what. Okay. And then it's just like podcast page and gives you kind of a walkthrough of how to listen to the podcast. Um, all right, so if I click on I'm an aspiring film investor or current or executive producer. Oh, there he is. We finally see Darren. Okay, great. So now on this one, it says, learn how to invest in indie films. Nice little, little, little, nice big picture of Darren and some coworkers and friends. I guess he's probably going to laugh because these are probably like famous people that I just am too silly to know who they are. Uh, you're an investor, you love movies, you want to invest in film, but aren't sure how it works. Welcome. Okay. And then there's like a link to schedule a call or ask a question. Oh, wow. It's like a full course here. Interesting. Below is a table of contents of an ever evolving blog book. As I write, the words below will become links. That's pretty interesting.
- [19:43]
B
I know Darren's really. He's really big on building in public. Like he wrote his first book, Craftsman Creative. His and his newsletter was essentially a chapter of the whole book. So every week he'd send out a new chapter and it was like his forcing function to write the book.
- [19:56]
A
I love that.
- [19:57]
B
So I think he's doing that again. I think he did that with Blockbuster and I think he's doing it again with this one. Yeah.
- [20:01]
A
Very cool.
- [20:02]
B
It looks like it at least.
- [20:03]
A
That's super interesting. I actually this is just a fun thought process, but I wonder if he could set up all of these as links and see what people click on the most and then write that next and like gauge interest in each one.
- [20:16]
B
True. But then somebody who clicks on that link would go to kind of a dead page and experience wouldn't be good. So you'd have to make that clear.
- [20:23]
A
Yeah.
- [20:23]
B
What do you want to read next? Choose your own adventure.
- [20:25]
A
Choose your own adventure. No, I love this though. I love the idea behind this. That's really cool. I don't want to get too far in the weeds on this. All right, so back to the welcome email.
- [20:33]
B
There's a lot of links there. How do you feel about, you know, welcome email? First you got a poll, you got an saying, hey, reply to this email. You've got all these links. Like, if we're just going back to like best practices first welcome email, what is kind of the bare minimum that you would want to see here? Or is this too much?
- [20:49]
A
No, this is a great call out, I think. I love the welcome messaging of some version. Um, the housekeeping items are fine. I think that's a good best practice. Like some people are going to do that. But then I would, I would probably do the reply especially because he has right message set up. Like, I think if someone clicks on a link to his website, they should see that right message box pop up if they haven't answered those questions yet. So I would just leave this poll probably off and just focus on the getting the reply I know getting a click is good, but a reply is apparently better for deliverability so I would focus there. What project has your attention right now? I think that's a good question. There's typically only one answer to that. So I guess what I'm hinting at is a lot of people will ask a very open ended question that is almost hard to answer. There's so many options. So I like that he's kind of asking you for one thing.
- [21:43]
B
Mm.
- [21:44]
A
It just feels like it might be a harder answer.
- [21:47]
B
Yeah. If you have to think, think about an answer to a question for more than like three seconds, you're probably not gonna answer it. So.
- [21:51]
A
Yeah, so I'm a big fan of like I give people the option to either just say hi Chanel or say where did you find me? Cuz that does help me like get some data of like where people are finding the newsletter. I like that one. It's simple. I, I, I don't mind this one. I actually think it's pretty good cause it's very on brand essentially. Um, and he's probably getting some good replies I think.
- [22:12]
B
The other thing that's interesting is the text right below the poll says you may be wondering where to go from here. Well, this isn't a sales funnel. There isn't a next step that I hope you take. And I thought that was very counterintuitive to what we usually see in, I mean people aren't calling out that yes, this is a sales funnel, this is where I want you to go. But I think that I just can't help but wonder if that language might, there's a different way to phrase that or if you do genuinely want people to a next step because it kind of feels like there's a whole bunch of doors to go through. Pick your door that you want to go through. Um, so I don't know, to me as somebody just subscribing here, I'd be like, my time might be limited. I might, I might just want you to tell me where to go. Like I don't, I know this. You don't want me to necessarily buy something right away but be like this is where you should go if you want this kind of thing or I don't know, something like that because I see a whole bunch of blue text here and a whole bunch of links and I'm kind of like overwhelmed.
- [23:04]
A
Agreed. Um, and also you have to kind of remember your audience. And so I feel like if it was me and I put this isn't a sales funnel. People would get it. But as someone who's a filmmaker, they might be like, what's a sales funnel? You know, like, it might. Yeah, it might confuse them and then get them not doing anything else after that. So I would probably remove that. I think just having the living Table of Contents as, like, his way of being different, I think, is a good forcing function. I don't think he needs to call out like, hey, I'm different, because this isn't a sales funnel.
- [23:34]
B
Yeah. And it's also one of those things, like, if you say that it's not this thing, does that make it feel even more like it is this thing?
- [23:40]
A
Yeah.
- [23:41]
B
Um, and I know Darren's a pretty genuine guy, so he. I'm sure he legitimately means that it's not a sales funnel, but yeah, I like the Living Table of Contents. And that's probably where he's going to get the most direction from his audience as well. If they go there and they start clicking on certain links, um, that might help direct what he should write next. If they're clicking a whole bunch in the development section, for example, then he knows I got to do more development posts or something like that.
- [24:04]
A
Yeah, I agree. And I. I still feel like there's so much more opportunity for him to lean into his background.
- [24:10]
B
Yeah.
- [24:10]
A
And maybe that comes in the next email and I just haven't gotten there yet.
- [24:13]
B
But, yeah, it could be.
- [24:14]
A
Just signing off as just Darren Smith with his picture is like, I don't know.
- [24:19]
B
You're. You're an executive producer of indie movies. Darren. Let's have a. Yeah. A little bit more credibility. It's. I know, and I get it. It's probably weird. Super weird to kind of to put those things as titles or under your name and stuff, but I think it's going to help. It's going to help build that authority and credibility for why people want to listen to you.
- [24:38]
A
Okay. We did the welcome email. We did the thank you page. Are we missing anything? Should we go to the.
- [24:45]
B
Those are the main. Those are the main things, I think.
- [24:48]
A
Let's go to this one. So you. I think this is a recent.
- [24:52]
B
Yeah.
- [24:53]
A
Post. And actually now I'm signed in, so maybe I can sign out. Oh.
- [24:58]
B
Or can you.
- [24:59]
A
I can't. How do I get to, like. Okay. If I just click on one of these? So I guess if you're in a post, I just want to see the signup workflow. So it looks like it's just the ghost button, which is kind of getting drowned out by this writing search thing. Too.
- [25:13]
B
I want to make one of those hide on these pages.
- [25:17]
A
I think that might be a good idea. I was just gonna see what it looks like on mobile if we need to switch. So I just went to that page on mobile, like as if someone had shared it with me. And it's just the article, which is great. And then I guess this is right message again.
- [25:31]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah, on the bottom.
- [25:33]
A
So that's kind of an opt in, but not really. So as I'm scrolling down, I don't see anywhere except for at the very bottom to subscribe to the newsletter. Right. So I wonder if there's an opportunity here to, you know, pull like a. You know how substack as you scroll down, it'll like pop up like a. Hey, you're not subscribed or logged in. Do you want to do that?
- [25:52]
B
Yeah. Or subscribe to. Read more.
- [25:54]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [25:55]
B
Just put some stuff behind like a free paywall, but like a subscriber paywall.
- [25:58]
A
Yeah. I'm not always a huge fan of those, but I think having a box that looks like you have to subscribe to keep reading is nice. But if somebody clicks out, maybe they can still read it.
- [26:08]
B
And that would strike me too. Yeah. If you're. If you're into just getting the numbers, the numbers game and getting as many subscribers as you can because this is like a big media play, then. Yeah, you wouldn't want to gate that. But I think I just feel like Darren's going to want people who are very targeted, so you'll want the people who are going to subscribe so they can read more of this kind of stuff. So I think that could make sense here. I don't think, I don't think his, his revenue play here is with like sponsors and ads would be.
- [26:35]
A
No, I, I would hope not. Yeah, I feel like his stuff is just way too valuable. Should we jump into, like social? Like how he's promoting this on social?
- [26:44]
B
Yeah. I'd be curious to see what he's doing there. We can give a, A quick, quick diagnostic check on LinkedIn and potentially Twitter or.
- [26:52]
A
Yeah. Because he's a public server, Twitter. I just, I searched his name and I got this, which is so fun. I love that he like pops up everywhere and he's just like known. So I clicked over. Let's go to his Instagram. Um, I don't know if he's active. Not quite. Okay. But he has quite a few links here. Um, read the next book. And this is his other website and then his Facebook profile, which that's Interesting. Craftsman Films and then a consulting link. I wonder if that still works. Yes, it does. That's fun. Okay. People are still using Facebook. I'm just kidding.
- [27:27]
B
It's the world we live in, apparently. Um, okay, you gotta keep your Facebook account for Marketplace. Right.
- [27:33]
A
Okay. So he has his Twitter, Craftsman Creative. Yeah, I wonder. But it goes to Craftsman Film. Does Craftsman Creative still exist or did he redirect it?
- [27:44]
B
I thought I. I thought I saw it the other day.
- [27:45]
A
Yeah, it is still there. Interesting.
- [27:47]
B
Like that image right there on the bottom left where it shows him and a camera. Like that's the image you could use for that landing page before. Like that's kind of the thing I was thinking.
- [27:56]
A
All right, so we're on his LinkedIn profile and I clicked on one of his featured links, if you will, and it was Learn how to invest in Indie films. And it goes to that interactive glossary, table of contents, whatever you want to call it.
- [28:08]
B
Right. The live table of contents.
- [28:10]
A
The live table of contents. Which is good, but I feel like you probably want to keep it concise. He actually does have a join Craftsman films though, so that. So he did it right with this one. So on the left, the Craftsman films one that goes to the Learn page, he doesn't have this description text. And that's good because it. It goes directly to that link. But then on this one on the right, if you add this description text, it opens this modal. So if he were to just delete this, it goes directly to the site, which is nice. And that's what we want.
- [28:37]
B
It's a good little LinkedIn hack.
- [28:38]
A
Good little LinkedIn hack for you if you didn't know that.
- [28:41]
B
Yeah.
- [28:41]
A
So yes, that. And then also he has this arrow image again, which I'm just like, darren, put your face on here. But he has it on this one. So I just feel like you could probably improve this a little bit, maybe say like join the newsletter or something.
- [28:57]
B
My one thought was maybe there is a reason. We don't know, obviously. We're just. He submitted his newsletter to be roasted and this is just our like without context, kind of tear down of it. But maybe there is a reason why he doesn't want to have his face there for whatever reason. Perhaps he's trying to build a brand and like he has some exit strategy in a few years. So he doesn't want to build it around a personal brand, which I. Which I'd get that. But if that's not the case. Yeah, I see putting your face in here more often would not be a bad idea.
- [29:24]
A
Yeah. I don't wanna go too deep into the LinkedIn thing, but I think I just wanted to see if he had it there. He does have this with the call out. Great job on this. Um, so in his experience, he has Craftsman film as a page, which is great. Cause it just kind of shows people like, you know, I have this other project I'm working on. And then he does have the link out to the newsletter there too. So good job on that. Nice. Independent film producer. Creating blockbuster indies at Craftsman Films and Producer Fund one. Is there a producer Fund two.
- [29:55]
B
I think that might just be a. Is that fun? Oh, is it a one or is it like a.
- [30:00]
A
A pipe?
- [30:01]
B
Pipe, yeah.
- [30:02]
A
I don't know.
- [30:02]
B
Oh, there's no thing after the pipes. That'd be weird.
- [30:04]
A
Yeah. I don't know.
- [30:06]
B
Interesting. And then he's got his call to.
- [30:09]
A
Action link and it goes links Craftsman Creative Co. But redirect.
- [30:13]
B
Let's call it out for people who can't see. It says invest where Hollywood won't.
- [30:18]
A
Oh, that's great.
- [30:20]
B
A little spicy. I kind of like that.
- [30:22]
A
I kind of wish he had that like in his banner image on the top. That's actually like brilliant. I really like that. I feel he should probably put that on like the newsletter sign up page. Like learn how to invest where Hollywood won't or. Yeah, that's. That is spicy. I like it. Use that more, Darren. Yeah, put that elsewhere.
- [30:42]
B
Yeah, because that's like, that's the. That's the whole angle of Dave versus Goliath and everyone's going to root for the smaller guy and people want to cheer you on that way. So I think you can build, I don't know, some. A bit of a small fan base and.
- [30:58]
A
Totally.
- [30:59]
B
Yeah, I think that's. That could be valuable.
- [31:01]
A
All right. Do we have anything else? I feel like we've talked about this for a while now.
- [31:05]
B
Yeah, yeah. No, no. I mean, we could go into the weeds more and I think it's important if people are wondering why we're not really kind of like tearing down his newsletter editions for one. We haven't received any yet. But also I think it's important to note that like, without context as to the goal of the newsletter, who he's writing for, previous information we don't have. Newsletter content is so subjective. It's. It's pretty tough. There's some stuff that's a little bit more objective in. In a newsletter, like your footer and, you know, your intro, maybe images, that kind of thing. But for the most part, it's kind of hard to. To do a newsletter roast for content specifically.
- [31:44]
A
I think the one last thing I'll say is a. I'm sorry for people who are seeing my 30 tabs or whatever open just from this one roast, but that is how my brain works. Also, he has the typical ghost. This image at the top of a tab is called the favicon. And he could totally change this to be his, like, logo or, you know, even just like, CF or, like, a camera. I don't know, something that is, like, standing out more than the ghost image.
- [32:10]
B
I mean, he could even use his Craftsman Creative or a version of his Craftsman Creative logo. The light bulb. Yep. Why not? And I'm thinking as I'm seeing this image here again, the investing indie film image, that's probably, you know, like WordPress. You've got the featured image for every post. That's probably what that is. And it just drags it in to fill the full width of the. Like, you probably need a. An image there. So that's probably why those are all big and huge and existent.
- [32:34]
A
Yeah. There's gotta be a way to update it, though, the size.
- [32:37]
B
I'm sure. I'm sure you could. Yeah.
- [32:38]
A
All right, well, I think that's gonna wrap up here. Our first ever roast on the podcast. Um, this was fun. I love doing these.
- [32:45]
B
This was a lot of fun. Um, hopefully helpful to people listening and to Darren, obviously. Um, but what would be kind of. Do you have any big sort of key takeaways for Darren from what we've discussed today?
- [32:58]
A
I would say lean into your expertise, for sure. Um, yeah, I think that's what's gonna really move the needle with people wanting to subscribe and learn from you. Um, and put your face more. I know it's here, but, like, I feel like there's just opportunities for you to. And maybe you do in other posts that I didn't see, but, like, share stories of. Like, this one time I was doing this thing, and here's an image. I. I just feel like his experience, his background and all of that is really going to help sell this. And so I think if he can lean into that more, that's my main takeaway.
- [33:27]
B
Better landing page experience for smaller images and more focused messaging. More of Darren, more credibility and authority. It's like almost like a form of social proof to some degree. So I think all those things you could definitely benefit from.
- [33:41]
A
And a little plug here. If you want to get your newsletter roasted, go to growthinreverse.com roasts. And there's a little form you can fill out. And fun. If you go ahead and leave a rating or review on Apple and Spotify and put a little screenshot of that, we actually prioritize those in the queue. And we have about 20 people who have submitted roasts already, which is so fun. But not all of them reviewed. So you can stand out here and go ahead and get some ratings and reviews, help us get higher in the in the podcast ratings for people who are looking to grow newsletters.
- [34:18]
B
That'd be awesome. We'd appreciate it.
- [34:19]
A
Perfect. Well, this was super fun. If you liked this, please comment either on Spotify or YouTube and let us know. And yeah, I'm excited to do more of these.
- [34:28]
B
As am I. This is great.
- [34:30]
A
All right, we'll see you later.