From Tweets to 70k: How Jesse "Accidentally" Built a Newsletter of 70k Subscribers

Summary

Growth In Reverse: Episode Summary

Episode Title: From Tweets to 70k: How Jesse "Accidentally" Built a Newsletter of 70k Subscribers
Release Date: June 18, 2025
Host/Authors: Chenell Basilio and Dylan Redekop
Guest: Jesse ("ADHD Jesse")

---

Introduction

In this episode of Growth In Reverse, hosts Chenell Basilio and Dylan Redekop sit down with Jesse, affectionately known as "ADHD Jesse," to delve into his remarkable journey of growing a newsletter from scratch to an impressive 70,000 subscribers. Jesse shares his organic growth strategies, the challenges he's faced balancing personal responsibilities with content creation, and his future plans to further monetize and build his community.

---

Jesse's Journey to 70k Subscribers

Jesse's path to a thriving newsletter began unexpectedly after he lost his primary income source. Reflecting on his humble beginnings, Jesse states, "I just, out of nowhere, lost my income, and it was completely out of my control. So the newsletter has grown a lot. It's up to 70,000 subscribers now" (00:00).

Initially, Jesse had no formal plans to become a content creator. His involvement with Ship 30 for 30, a program where participants write and ship 30 atomic essays over 30 days, was the catalyst. "I signed up for that. I have no idea why I signed up for it," he admits (05:14). Through this program, he began writing about design, tech, and his experiences with ADHD, which resonated deeply with his audience.

---

Content Strategy and Growth Channels

Jesse's content strategy pivoted significantly when he began repurposing his tweets for Instagram. "Maybe I can just do, like, the bare minimum version of, like, literally just screaming, screenshotting my tweets and posting it on Instagram. And I did that, and it freaking worked" (00:50). This simple yet effective strategy allowed him to reach a broader audience without overextending himself.

Beyond Instagram, Jesse diversified his presence across multiple platforms, including Twitter, Blue Sky, Mastodon, LinkedIn, and more. He utilizes tools like Buffer for scheduling and Make.com for automating processes. "I have a thing that does that and then brings them over to ConvertKit," he explains (30:02). This multi-platform approach ensured his content was accessible wherever his audience frequented.

---

Challenges Faced

Balancing the demands of a full-time job, family life with three children, and growing a newsletter presented significant challenges. Jesse candidly shares, "I've been working full time during all this... and I was really just trying kind of making this thing happen on the side" (07:44). This juggling act often left him feeling stretched thin, especially when it came to handling paid subscriptions.

As his subscriber count skyrocketed, maintaining authenticity became increasingly difficult. Jesse notes, "I feel like it's so easy to get in your head and be like, it's got to be an exact formula for every week. But now it's like, I can spit that out like that, and so that's not the value that I'm going to be adding" (16:01). This focus on formulaic content began to drain the joy he once found in writing, turning his newsletter into a chore.

---

Insights from the Craft and Commerce Conference

During the Craft and Commerce conference, Jesse gained valuable insights that influenced his approach to monetizing his audience. A key takeaway was the importance of authenticity in the age of AI and automated content. "There's a lot of focus on the authenticity... leaning into what makes you human," Jesse highlights (16:01).

Additionally, after being laid off, Jesse realized the necessity of dedicating more time to his newsletter and community-building efforts. "I have to replace that income. I have to find another job right away. But I decided like, no, I'm never gonna do this. It's just like it's never gonna happen," he reflects (14:40). This newfound freedom allowed him to focus intensely on transforming his audience into a sustainable business.

---

Future Plans and Strategies

Looking ahead, Jesse is exploring the integration of courses and memberships to deepen his engagement with subscribers. He shares his plans to launch a course alongside a membership community, inspired by successful models like Jay Clouse's The Lab. "A model that seems to be working for people right now is doing a course and then moving into a membership," he explains (20:27).

Jesse is also considering how to effectively transition his paid Substack subscribers to a new platform without disrupting their experience. "I probably could just do something like that," he muses about simplifying the cancellation process for his current subscribers (33:56).

Moreover, Jesse aims to foster a supportive community where individuals with ADHD can connect and share experiences without judgment. "That's what I found so valuable when I got diagnosed was finding other people that had it too," he states (22:21). This community-centric approach is central to his vision for sustained growth and meaningful engagement.

---

Key Takeaways and Lessons Learned

1. Embrace Authenticity: Jesse emphasizes the importance of staying true to oneself rather than adhering strictly to formulas. "I really need to... be more true to myself and talk about things I'm learning and things I'm excited about" (16:19).

2. Repurpose Content Effectively: By repurposing tweets for Instagram, Jesse maximized his reach with minimal effort, proving that content doesn't need to be reinvented for each platform.

3. Leverage Automation Tools: Utilizing tools like Buffer, Make.com, and Zapier streamlined Jesse's workflow, allowing him to manage multiple platforms efficiently.

4. Community Building is Crucial: Creating a space where subscribers can interact and support each other fosters loyalty and sustained engagement.

5. Balance is Key: Managing personal responsibilities while growing a business requires careful balancing, highlighting the need for supportive partners and efficient systems.

6. Adapt and Iterate: Jesse’s willingness to experiment and adapt his strategies based on feedback and experiences is a testament to the dynamic nature of content growth.

---

Conclusion

Jesse's story is a compelling example of how authentic content and strategic repurposing can lead to exponential growth. As he navigates the complexities of monetizing his newsletter while maintaining genuine connections with his audience, Jesse embodies the essence of what Growth In Reverse aims to impart: actionable insights and real-world strategies for turning a newsletter into a thriving business.

Where to Find Jesse:

• Username: ADHD Jesse across all major platforms
• Newsletter: ExtraFocus.com

---

This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for listeners and non-listeners alike.

Transcript

[Jesse]

I just, out of nowhere, lost my income, and it was completely out of my control. So the newsletter has grown a lot. It's up to 70,000 subscribers now. I didn't know that I had, like, a private investigator, like, looking into all my stuff, and I definitely never did the thing you're supposed to do of like, hey, let's make a change and see what happens. No, I didn't do that at all. Maybe I can just do, like, the bare minimum version of, like, literally just screaming, screenshotting my tweets and posting it on Instagram. And I did that, and it freaking worked. I was really precious about it for a while of not wanting to repurpose content. I was so worried that someone's gonna be like, didn't you post this already? Or something like that. I've never gotten a single one of those.

[Unknown Host 1]

All right, so we're here at Kit Studios in Boise in Idaho, and we're here with ADHD Jesse, as I called him, and you are well known on social under that moniker. So we're excited to kind of chat through how you grew your newsletter. I already wrote a Deep Dive on how you grew it, so we. Maybe we can, like, fill in the blanks post. I think it was, like, mid-2023, so it's been a minute.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah. Almost two years.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah. So a little bit has changed. A little bit.

[Jesse]

Yeah. A little bit of changes in the last couple of years, for sure.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited. I a fan of both of you and follow all the stuff you're doing, and it was really wild reading the Deep Dive into myself and, like, feeling like I didn't know that I had, like, a private investigator, like, looking into all my stuff. I think the most interesting thing about it was learning from my own stuff. Like, you, you know, unpacking things that I had done and me being able to learn from that was, like, such a unique and interesting experience of, like, just seeing, like, oh, that's something I did that was good. And I had no idea at the time because I feel like so many creators, we're just winging it. We're just trying stuff. And, yeah, we're doing so many things. It's hard to realize, like, when a change, like, affects something. Like, I remember. I don't remember all the specifics, but I remember you pointing out something that I changed on Instagram and how that had a certain effect, and it was like, oh, yeah, I completely forgot that I did that. I. And I definitely never did those the thing you're supposed to do of like, hey, let's make a change and see what happens. No, I didn't do that at all. Had no idea. And so, yeah, it was super, super interesting. Kind of getting to explore my own history from, like, a unique angle.

[Unknown Host 1]

I always thought it was funny when you said you were reading the teasers on Social and you're like, oh, no, I think this might be me.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah. I remember I saw one of your teasers that you posted and I was like, that sounds like it's me.

[Unknown Host 1]

Oh. So then the next day, Deep dive dropped and.

[Jesse]

Yeah, it's so funny. Yeah, that was great. And I knew that you read my newsletter, so I was like. I had a suspicion that I was like, I think I have. I think I have enough, like, followers or whatever that I'm kind of in that range that you might look at.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And so I was like, kind of a little bit wondering, and then I saw it. I was like, oh, that's. I think that's me. That's awesome.

[Unknown Host 1]

So before we get too far into it, do you want to give people, like, a little bit of backstory of how you started the newsletter?

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah. So what's it called and everything too? Yeah, yeah. Great, Great. So my newsletter is called Extra Focus. And I got the extrafocus.com which is. Was very exciting. Before it was bought, it was one of those, like, parked domains by like, GoDaddy or something like that. And I think they listed it for like $3,000. And so instead of getting that, I bought Extra Focus. Everything else, like.net.org and then all the work I have, I don't know, probably like 40 different extra focus versions. But then I finally, at one point was like, I'm gonna, you know, did a little bit of back and forth and made an offer and then got the dot com and oh, my gosh, I would have paid twice as much as they wanted. It's just so such a relief that kind of falls off the shoulders once I basically, I imagine, like, what would I do if I went here one day and somebody bought it and there was something else here? I was like, that would have ruined my day. It would have been so awful. So I kind of, like, someone said I basically, like, price anchored my. I was like, if. If I went here and somebody owned it, I would pay 6,000 to buy it then.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right.

[Jesse]

And so I was like, all right, I gotta. I gotta just do this. So anyway, yeah, so that's. That's my newsletter, Extra Focus. It Started back like, you know, the year. Right. I think it was 2021 because it was like post the pandemic stuff. And I joined ship 30 for 30 where we connected.

[Unknown Host 1]

March of 2021.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was like, I think it was the second ever ship 30 for 30, which was like the first like official one because before that was just like run on Twitter. And for anyone that doesn't know ship 30 for 30, the whole premise is basically you write 30 atomic essays, which is like a, like a 500ish word essay, and then you ship it, you release it that day. So for 30 days in a row, you're writing every single night and then sending it back. Then Twitter was the main place. I'm not sure, I'm not sure what they're doing these days.

[Unknown Host 1]

I don't think they run ship 30 anymore.

[Unknown Host 2]

No, I think it's a discourse.

[Jesse]

I think I got an email recently that they're going to do a new cohort. But anyway, so that's kind of. I signed up for that. I have no idea why I signed up for it. I previously had no like ambitions to be a writer or a creator. I mean, I was like a creative because I do design and stuff like that. But no, like, oh, I'm going to be a content creator. Oh, I'm going to write a book one day. None of that, none of that ambition really. But for some reason I saw the ship 30 for 30, I was like, that sounds like a fun thing. I think I'll do that. And originally I kind of like outlined what topics am I going to talk about. And I put down design and I put down tech because I've done talks at tech conferences and stuff like that. So I kind of thought that might be my thing. And then I also had been diagnosed with ADHD a few years earlier and I learned a lot about that to just understand my brain better.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

So I thought, oh, maybe I'll do a couple of those on ship 30 for 30 as well. And I did like one or two. And then immediately it was just like, oh, this is. People don't know this stuff. And immediately like that's, that's the content that people are connecting with and replying to. And I think especially ship 30 for 30 is going to attract a lot of like entrepreneur minded people. And there's like studies showing that entrepreneurs of like, way higher percentage likelihood of having adhd. And so there was a lot of people within the cohort itself that were immediately kind of interested in the content that I was writing about. And so that. That happened. And then I think everyone just within ship 30 were talking about things you should do. And so someone was saying like, oh, you should. Now's a great time to jump on TikTok because there's a lot of people viewing it, but there's not enough educational content. And so there's a lot of like people in their 30s and 40s that are on tick tock and there's not enough content for them.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And then somebody else saying like, you should have a newsletter. Like get a newsletter right away. And so I like a week in. I think back then it was. So I immediately signed up for Substack, which was free back then. It was free, up to a thousand subscribers.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay.

[Jesse]

And so that when I signed up I did substack because it was free. And I just started. Basically I was just sharing the atomic essays I was writing.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

So I do like a weekly newsletter was like here's the four things that I wrote about ADHD this week. And then it's kind of snowballed a lot.

[Unknown Host 2]

Since Snowball is no longer a ball, it's.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Avalanche. Yeah, that's.

[Unknown Host 1]

You want to share some numbers from now to give people context, like how many subscribers you have and that kind of thing.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah. So the newsletter has grown a lot. It's up to 70,000 subscribers now, which is pretty. Yeah, it's pretty. Pretty wild. Yeah. So that's. That. That's a newsletter. And then I kind of, you know, I've done a lot of the other stuff so I have like, I know roughly like across like Twitter and Instagram and Blue sky and like threads. I probably have like 4 to 500,000 followers across all those. And then I have a YouTube channel with like 85,000 subscribers. Subscribers or. Yeah, subscribers. That's what they call them, right? Yeah, yeah. It's so like different platforms. Sometimes subscriber means like a financial like subsequent. Anyway it's like a whole thing. But yeah. So it's kind of wild how all this has happened, especially because I've been working full time during all this. Like I said, I was in tech. I've been a front end designer and developer and I was. I had a full time job all of this time as well as like I have a family with three kids and so I was really just like trying kind of making this thing happen on the side as well as writing a book. I didn't mention that to you. I. Which that actually came directly out of ship 30 because I, I did the first ship 30 for 30. And I was like, this is amazing. I want to keep writing. And then I actually, I did like two more cohorts. I didn't do all 30 days. The other two.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

But I wrote a lot. And then at some point I was looking at all the essays I had done. I was like, this is like 25, 30,000 words right here. This is basically a book. I should write a book. I can just. This will be really quick and easy. Spoiler alert. It is not easy. Writing a book is. I think I used none of those words, but that was like my original foundation. And then you find out that writing a book is so much harder than just putting a bunch of essays in a row because there's so much context building and like a storyline. Like, not necessarily a storyline, but some sort of line. Yeah. Through line for readers to follow, for things to make sense and like, anyway, this isn't a book podcast, but it's like a whole other thing. And, but that really, I think kind of helped cement me like within the ADHD community having, like now I'm an author and. Yeah. So that's been, it's been kind of wild doing all this somehow on the side while having to do the main, the full time job and family.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah. I was gonna make the joke, like, oh, you have a full time job and you're doing all this, so you must be single, right?

[Jesse]

Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like, like single and independently wealthy or something like that.

[Unknown Host 1]

Like inheritance.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Yes, I, I hire someone to do all my stuff and I'm single and have no responsibilities.

[Unknown Host 2]

That's right.

[Jesse]

Yeah. No, no, I, that is not the case. I mean, I, I am married and my wife's amazing and does a lot of stuff for the family, for sure. And that's. That is something I think a lot of people forget to mention. Especially the, like, the, you know, the big, the. The white male that talks about how they're like grinding to get the stuff done. It's like, yeah, well, who's working behind the scenes? Like, for me, it's my wife. She's working behind the scenes and doing a lot to take care of our family and get a lot of those stuff done.

[Unknown Host 2]

Like, enable you to do this.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah. Really. And being amazing and supportive of like doing this stuff and especially having adhd. She doesn't have adhd. And so that helps a lot. Like schedules and things like that is so hard with kids because it's just, it's. I do not know if, If I didn't have my Wife. I would have to hire somebody to manage just my kids schedules because it's, it's so they're doing sports and music and it's like, it's wild.

[Unknown Host 2]

Three kids.

[Jesse]

Three kids. Yeah. So 8, 12 and 14.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah, that's like busy sports and.

[Jesse]

Yeah, it's like they're all just getting into that now and yeah, it's, it's intense.

[Unknown Host 2]

Wow.

[Jesse]

Yeah, we're just coming out of like right at the end of the year too. So like everything just happened. It's like there's the end of the school year, things happening and like the concerts are happening and then like the, the final baseball games, like all, everything is just like wild right now.

[Unknown Host 2]

Well, thank you to your wife for allowing you to be here even.

[Jesse]

Right. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

An hour flight away from home or so roughly.

[Jesse]

Well, ten hour drive. Oh, you drove? Yeah. That's actually my favorite part. That's the reason I came to craft and commerce in the first place three years ago. This is my third time because I love a solo road trip. Like just like cruising in my car by myself is amazing. So it's about a 10 hour drive for me from the Seattle area and the best is actually going back because the conference ends and then I get to just like sit by myself in the car driving home and really kind of decompress and like think about like, okay, how am I going to put these into practice? And also it gives me that gap before I'm home and suddenly have all the dad responsibilities of like, and the kids are going to want to do, you know, all that. And then you lose all that like context that you're kind of holding in your brain this week being at the conference. So a drive home is going to be great.

[Unknown Host 2]

Well, let's, let's quickly touch on like what are some big takeaways from. I know this isn't a podcast above the conference, but it's all very relatable to newsletters and growth and authenticity is a big theme.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

So like how, what are some of the takeaways that you've had from this.

[Unknown Host 1]

Conference so far and before just this level set. So you had a day job and you no longer have a day job. So I feel like all of these ideas are coming in through a new lens now because you probably have a little bit more time and flexibility to like implement some of them.

[Jesse]

Yeah, absolutely. So that's been, I, I feel again with speaking about craft and commerce for the last couple of years it's been a little bit weird because I, I'll Talk with people and they're like, oh, what are you doing? And I was like, well, I'm, I like don't really have a business, I'm building an audience, but I don't have the time to figure out how to actually make a business out of it. So I've been just sort of kind of doing it backwards in that way. But yeah, so as you mentioned, I, A couple of months ago I got laid off from a job and which was in the tech field. So it's like, it's the golden handcuffs problem where it's like you want to leave. Because like I want to, want to dive into this creator thing and I've got a lot of, you know, I, I don't know the term. I said audience, I usually don't use that. But just like I have a lot of people I know that I can help and I want to be able to put more time into doing that. And I haven't been able to because the full time job and the family and so when I got laid off, I immediately was like, obviously I'm like, well, I gotta replace that income. I gotta find another job right away. But I, I basically kind of like wrestled with a little bit and then decided like, no, no, no, like if I, if I jump into another job right now, then I'm never gonna do this. It's just like it's never gonna happen.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yep.

[Jesse]

And then that mixed with the fact that I just out of nowhere lost my income and it was completely out of my control.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right.

[Jesse]

There was zero that I could do. It wasn't even like I didn't get fired, so it wasn't like I didn't even do anything that messed up at work.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

It was just somebody else like, you know, did whatever. And then my, I took the result of it. Yeah, I was impacted and suddenly all that like revenue went away and I had no control over it. And so that's another part of it too of like it'll take a while to figure out that's what I'm doing right now. Like navigate and kind of figure this out. But then I have the control and so I'm looking forward to, to that and kind of figuring that out, which is a lot of what kind of taken away from this conference of how am I going to do that in turn turning, turning education into a business that makes sense and can help people and support me and all of that. So. Yeah, I think there was a question that I forgot what it was.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah, it's okay.

[Jesse]

I've been Talking for a while.

[Unknown Host 2]

That is a classic. I can relate 100% to that because I don't know how many podcasts I've been on where I'm being like, I've been rambling, and I don't even know.

[Jesse]

What the question is I was answering.

[Unknown Host 2]

What happens when three people with ADHD come into a room and do podcasts? So I think what I was asking is kind of like, what is your. What is your big takeaway or opportunity maybe, that you see based on something you've learned here at the conference that you are excited to implement into your business?

[Jesse]

Yeah. So there's a. There's a couple of things. One, I'd say, as you kind of mentioned, there's a lot of focus on the authenticity and, like, being with how AI is kind of, you know, changing everything, being a part of everything, like leaning into what makes you human.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And I think that's something. If just to be, like, transparent. I feel like that's something I've kind of lost with my newsletter. Maybe in the last year, I've felt like it's been harder to do that. And part of that is when that number gets high enough that so many, you start to overthink. Should I be more streamlined? And, like, every newsletter is exactly a strategy with three takeaways. And, like, it's really hard to not do that. But now it's like, I can spit that out like that, and so that's not the value that I'm going to be adding.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And I really need to. So that's something I'm hoping to kind of recapture is like, getting back to what I was doing kind of early. Especially I think my second year doing the newsletter is when it really started to grow. So partly I'm like, I just need to go back and look at that and remember kind of what I was doing and be more true to myself and talk about things I'm learning and things I'm excited about and stuff like that. Because I think it's so easy to get in your head and be like, it's got to be an exact formula for every week.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And that's not. I think that's not really what people want.

[Unknown Host 2]

Not anymore, I don't think. I think there was a place and a time for that. And now I think it's going to come back to a lot more of, like, I know Jesse, and I know, like, I like his vibe. I've stayed. I've been a reader of his for a while. I kind of hear, like, about him a bit more about what he's doing in his life, you know, dealing with the same things I'm struggling with and how he navigates them.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Unknown Host 2]

As opposed to, like, here are three ways that you can overcome this problem with adhd. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, yeah, I know nobody. Like, we're overloaded with information and advice. And I think when you can weave story and personal. I think you wrote, if I remember correctly, when I was subscribed to your newsletter, which I can't remember, honestly, if I still am or not, but I remember you talking more about your own personal experiences with it.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

And how you came to learn about it. And you just, like, kind of shared a bit of those stories, but then you'd also have a bit of a takeaway at the end and a lesson to learn. So I appreciated that as somebody who was kind of newly diagnosed with it. So, yeah, I think there's a place for that. And that's probably why a lot of people signed up and stayed. Signed up.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Yeah. I think there's. It's. It's the whole. I forget the phrase, but basically the problem of becoming more of an expert in your, you know, the curse of expertise.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And it's. It gets. I've found that with myself lately where I assume that everyone knows this base level of knowledge. Yeah, Knowledge. And they don't. Like, I find out all the time people don't know that. And assuming that, not only does that mean I didn't help them, but then it almost makes them less want to come to me because it feels like, oh, he's. He doesn't even get me.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And I feel like that's. That was sort of the strength of what I was doing early on. People felt really, really seen because they. Because they felt like I got them because I've been there, too. I understand what it's like living with adhd, especially undiagnosed. I was, you know, not diagnosed till my mid-30s. And so. And that's. That's really what I'm trying to, hopefully to recapture with my newsletter. And just like that. That voice and not trying to be the expert, which I feel like you said if, like last year or something like a year and a half ago, it felt. Felt like things were suggesting I should move that way. And now I'm feeling like I think I should pull. I think I went too far that way. And then I didn't love it either. Right. Because it was like that. This isn't even what I enjoy Doing so it's almost like the newsletter becomes a chore.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And when that becomes the case, every reader feels that you can feel when the transfer of energy.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Yeah. You feel when they're not in it. And so I'm hoping to really recapture what I loved about that for most of the time that I was doing it.

[Unknown Host 1]

It'll probably make it easier to write, too.

[Jesse]

Yeah, absolutely. Like, right. Right now, I feel like I've. For months I've just, like, dreaded it. And I don't. That's no fun. I don't want to do that. And no one wants to read that. Like, if I dreaded writing it or like, yeah, that's. That's no good for anybody. And so I'm really hoping to just recapture, like, what do I actually want to write about that is going to be. Yeah. Kind of authentic to that beginner. Just like, recapturing that sort of thing is. That's. That's my hope. So that. That's a. That's a big one.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Take away kind of from this conference and a lot of stuff I'm hearing a little bit more practically as I'm, like, trying to figure out the business side of things is there's been so, like, Jay Clouse will sometimes say, like, he's said a bunch lately. I feel like that he thinks courses are basically going away. I don't know. That feels a little extreme, but. But it is interesting to hear him say that while I'm like, hey, I'm launching my course.

[Unknown Host 1]

You and me both.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse]

But so that's something I'm really thinking about, like, the. I think the marriage of, like, a course and a membership.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And how to do that in a way that really. That helps people and helps people connect with other people. Because that was again, with, like, the ADHD thing. That's what I found so valuable when I got diagnosed was finding other people that had it too, and knowing that, like, oh, I'm going to be able to connect with them because now we have this, like, shared understanding. And that's the sort of thing that. That I hope to. With some sort of membership. That's a big part of what I want to bring to people, is a way to connect with other people again, sort of like with Jay Clouse being in the lab, being able to, like, connect with people that are sort of in a similar space that you're in is really great. And so, like, a community, like, that could be super valuable where you kind of have this baseline understanding, like, you can complain about things that maybe you wouldn't complain about with your neurotypical friends or maybe your neurotypical spouse. Yeah. Because there's some things where if you don't have adhd, this isn't going to make sense. This is just going to make me look like a lazy jerk or something like that. But people with ADHD get the struggle. And so that's really what I'm hoping to kind of. I feel like I'm hearing in multiple places that a model that seems to be working for people right now is doing a course and then moving into a membership.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah, 100%. I keep hearing that, too.

[Jesse]

Yeah. I think Becky Pearson Davidson, I was just talking with her because she was in the lab and we just did like the Mastermind thing and she was talking a lot about that.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And so that's. That's definitely a way that I'm leaning and I feel like that's something that I've heard a lot from my, like, from the community and readers and stuff, that they want to be able to connect with more people. And like, the. The silly thing is that I've. I've done some courses before, like live cohort courses or, you know, like virtual live cohort courses. And we'll like, maybe I'll throw together like a Slack channel or something for the, like, three weeks we do it, and then at the end of it, every time, they're like, oh, I wish we could keep doing this. And you're like, no, we can't. Kc. Bye.

[Unknown Host 2]

They're like, begging you to. They're like, take my money for a community.

[Jesse]

Yeah. And so hopefully at the end of. So I did launch. I did like a launch window for a course, and we're going through that right now. And hopefully at the end of this one, people start to say that again and I can say, well, actually, that's a great idea. Yeah, let's do it.

[Unknown Host 1]

Um, is this a cohort course?

[Jesse]

It's sort of a hybrid is what I'm doing. Because I didn't. I sold the course and I didn't have anything done yet. I had like an outline and I had kind of an idea of what the content would be, but I didn't want to teach all of it live. Like, I wanted to get to having a recorded asset and having, like, maybe some. Maybe it'll be an evergreen. Probably not, but possibly. And so I wanted to have that done so that I didn't have to reinvented. I think when I've done the course, like I mentioned, I've done a few cohort courses in the past, and I always feel like I have to reinvent it every time. So I kind of wanted something that, like, I'm going to do this one, and I'll record basically a module every week, and then I can kind of adapt a little bit based on what people are saying. And then at the end of it, I'll be like, cool, no matter what. Jesse, you don't need to record more. Use this for two years, and then maybe after two years, rerecord it up with learning and stuff like that. But that was sort of like. It was very. This is sort of like a. I called it like a founding cohort because it's really like, this is to set the foundation. I specifically priced it cheaper than I planned to so that I would get more people in there to be able to get testimonials.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And so I was trying to, like, really do a bunch of stuff that's going to set me in a good place for the future so that I can do it easier in the future so that I can focus on some other things. Like probably. Probably the community things.

[Unknown Host 1]

I think that community sounds like an awesome spot. Like, it would be so fun to have a place to go. And it's like, hey, did anyone else just get yelled at for this by your spouse or. I'm so embarrassed I did this thing.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Yeah. Because there's so many things. Yeah. With adhd. Like, this isn't an ADHD podcast, but there's so many things with ADHD where there's. It's so easy to feel the. Just, like, the immense shame because you have these intentions and. And your actions so often don't meet what your intention is.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And people that aren't adhd, it's so hard for them to understand that. So it feels like your intentions are bad.

[Unknown Host 1]

Right.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right.

[Jesse]

And because of that, there's all this, like, shame that gets involved and misunderstanding and all these things. And. Yeah. You feel like most people aren't going to understand, which is how I felt, you know, 35 years of my life. Like, no one else understands. No one else gets it. And so when you have somebody that you can talk to that gets it, you can talk about the really, like, things that are embarrassing to tell someone that is neurotypical and get understanding instead of, like, blame or whatever it would be.

[Unknown Host 1]

I feel like you just wrote the sales page right there.

[Jesse]

There we go. I'll download this right afterwards.

[Unknown Host 1]

Link in the bio for all the. Link in the description for all of the course and community.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so funny. Love it.

[Unknown Host 2]

So you have a paid aspect of your newsletter, right on Substack. Yeah, yeah, let's talk about that.

[Jesse]

Yeah. So the story with that. Well, I've been like bouncing back and forth between Substack and Kit since I started because like I mentioned when I very first signed up, I did on Substack because it was free. I can't even remember the specifics, but I remember I hit a thousand and I can't remember what it was, but that was like a. Oh, now you're gonna have to pay something. And. Which is not the case anymore. But something at that point was a catalyst at specifically a thousand. So I jumped over to ConvertKit at that point.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay.

[Jesse]

I don't. I. Yeah, I can't recall exactly what it was, but so I moved over to ConvertKit and then I was there for a while and then I started. The recommendations started happening on Substack and you know, back then they were the only ones doing it and I was like feeling really, like jealous of like people that are getting that free growth.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And so I jumped back to Substack Substack, which was a great move because I've probably gotten like 8,9000 subscribers through recommendations on Substack. But that has its own problems. But anyway, so when I jumped back, when I was like, I want the recommendations, I want the other stuff. I'm going to set like, yeah, I'm going all in. On Substack, they had something called pledges. And so paid newsletters was their big thing. But I was like, ah, that. That doesn't really feel like me. Yeah. But this pledge thing, sure, I'll do.

[Unknown Host 2]

That Patreon sort of model where you can like, well, sort of support.

[Jesse]

So pledge is you would basically say if you turn on a paid newsletter, I would give you this much. That sort of a thing.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay. Okay.

[Jesse]

And so it's like not quite going. But then the way it worked is people could pledge and then you could say, yeah, I'm going to go pay it. And all those pledges would like, would be charged.

[Unknown Host 2]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Jesse]

Yeah. And that was really weird to me. I was like, I would never want to do that. I would never pledge. And then just like it's like writing a check and having no idea when it's going to or if it's going to be cash.

[Unknown Host 1]

Do they get like a notification before?

[Jesse]

I don't. I don't actually know. But basically I kind of like walked through what the process would Be for a reader. I was like, well, this sucks. I guess I'll just turn on paid. So that's what I did. So I turned on Paid and I didn't have any plan for what to do if people became paid. I was like, just turned it on and see what happened. And like 150 people or something signed up to be paid. Like right away I was like, oh, well, interesting. But it's, it's hard to grow paid subscribers on Substack, I've found out. So it seemed like, oh, I'm going to be making like 500k in just a few months here. I just keep bumping up that by 100 every month. That's not that easy to do.

[Unknown Host 2]

Not how it works. Not works.

[Jesse]

Not quite how it works. But it's kind of complicated now because I have, I have grown that somewhat. So I think I have like close to 400 subscribers on subsect.

[Unknown Host 2]

Paid.

[Jesse]

Paid subscribers. Yeah. Yeah. And. But there's kind of this weird thing where I don't do a lot for, for them partly because most of the time that's been a paid newsletter. Like I said, I had the full time job and the family, so I was like not really doing much. It was basically like, hey, if you want to support the work I'm doing, yeah, you can pay $8 a month. And then you also get, you know, free access to the archive. And occasionally I would do like, like I do like an annual, like an annual review template. And so I might do like a plan your year workshop. And that's free for anyone that's paid. Yeah, paid members, like a few little things like that, but not a lot. And also the price point's really low, is like $8 a month. And so now I'm. That's the thing I have to figure out because when I launch this membership out of the course thing, I don't know what I'm going to charge, but it's going to be more than $8. Like $8 just isn't really going to be sustainable. Yeah, but now what I do for the people that are paid, that's the thing I'm trying to figure out how to, to like do I offer them a discount? Do I just like kill the paid newsletter and then launch? That's the whole thing I'm trying to navigate right now. So any advice? What would you guys do?

[Unknown Host 1]

I would just say be careful because if you have stuff outside of Substack, they don't like that necessarily. Right.

[Jesse]

No, I know. So that's been when I like launched the court. So right now I have my 70, 70k subscribers in substack and in convertkit. So I'm actually doing both because for the course launch I needed the power that ConvertKit gives me to. Because I didn't want to send 10 emails to every single person.

[Unknown Host 1]

Right.

[Jesse]

So I like sent out an email and then if they clicked a thing or did something that showed interest and then they got additional emails.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

But most people just saw I think three total emails over like two weeks. And so. But now I'm trying to navigate how to do both and it's. It's a nightmare. But I also can't leave Substack because I have like 250 people that recommend me or something like that and so I can't. So I have this like crazy automation. I think it's make. Com.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

I saw somewhere and so I have a thing that does that and then brings them over to ConvertKit.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay.

[Jesse]

But it's complicated and it's, it's like, it's. It's a whole thing. What do I do, guys?

[Unknown Host 1]

I do the same thing, but with Zapier it's really simple because you can do it.

[Jesse]

I tried to do it Zapier for and there was. I'd much rather have it.

[Unknown Host 1]

I don't think it's like kosher. But they send you an email every time you get.

[Jesse]

That's exactly what I do. Yes. So the email comes in and it grabs that and then it pulls it over.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

So I. Let's talk after so I can. Because I. Because I'm paying for Zapier and make sure. Because I saw a guide and only.

[Unknown Host 1]

Showed the way to show you how to do that.

[Jesse]

Yeah. So that's step one. That, that's good. Now I know that.

[Unknown Host 1]

Okay.

[Jesse]

That'll save me that whatever I'm paying for make.

[Unknown Host 2]

So I got one thought on the. Because you asked what you should do with the.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

So could you not bundle. Keep those people at the $8Amar, $8 a month price point but then have your upper tier be like include the community like a higher tier on Substack or do they not let you do that?

[Jesse]

They don't really do that. They have like, I mean they have like. I believe they just have like monthly, annual. And then they have this like founder.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yes. Where you enter a certain price that has to start at a certain price or whatever.

[Jesse]

Right, right. Yeah. And then the other problem is I'm even more tied in with Substack and another pro like as Far as like my membership, that's not gonna be run there at all. And the other problem is substack. Like we just said, we're having to do this weird workaround cause they have no API, no way to like really. So if somebody does that and buys on there, I have to do some weird workaround to be able to get them into my like circle community or whatever.

[Unknown Host 1]

You still send emails from Substack, So.

[Jesse]

That'S something I've been like thinking about a lot this week. Yes. So currently right now. Yes. And I've thought about like now that I moved everyone back over to ConvertKit, should I just start sending all my main newsletter through ConvertKit and keep Substack and keep pulling people from it? And then, then there's all the complications of like, well if I do that, should I still post the same newsletter in substack so that like the public one is there and just not actually send it to anybody? But one thing I've thought about with that is people that are paid subscribers if they want to cancel their thing now that's not linked in the newsletter. And so it becomes like if I'm a paid newsletter subscriber and I like, oh, I want to go cancel my subscription, where do I go?

[Unknown Host 2]

Couldn't you have just like a baked in link in your footer saying cancel your subscription?

[Jesse]

I mean it sounds really dumb and easy when you say it like that. So yeah, probably. It sounds like a really complicated problem in my head, but yeah, I probably could just do something like that.

[Unknown Host 2]

That would just take them to like a cancellation page.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

The only challenge is I don't know if it would carry the UTM parameter from their email over or what. But you could, you could at least take them to your main substack page that would have them logged in and then they could like click on.

[Jesse]

I could even put together a landing page that says how to do it as well. So it sounds so much easier when you're talking to somebody else. I probably put way too many hours into thinking about this on the side, but yeah. So I think that is probably what I'm going to ultimately end up doing is start sending the main newsletter through ConvertKit or through kit and just sort of like copy it over to Substack so that it still maintains its like blogginess or whatever.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah, I think that's a good move.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

But the commute, I mean the community sounds like a no brainer in my opinion.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Even if people aren't in the course necessarily. I don't know. That's tricky.

[Jesse]

That's the thing I'm trying to figure out. Like, do I want it to be like the course is the pre. Prerequisite Say.

[Unknown Host 2]

I think that's. If it was me, I would feel that that should be the. Maybe the way to go.

[Unknown Host 1]

It depends. Like, what is the course? I guess.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Having it be the prerequisite would be the way to go.

[Unknown Host 2]

I think that's kind of like, that's your in. If you want to get in this in the community, take the course so that you understand the fundamental kind of.

[Jesse]

Sets the baseline a little bit. Even though I'm certain that people aren't going to go through the whole thing. But at least there's.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah, there's the expectation, at least that you have taken some of the information or if you. If you wanted to do the cheat route and you're like, yeah, yeah, I'll take the course. And then like, complete, complete, complete. Then you get in the community and people are talking about the course and you're like, oh, damn, maybe I should go back and actually review it.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Unknown Host 2]

Have the access then. I don't know.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Yeah. I like that. There is a whole thing, like, part of me has tried to think about, like, should I do. Should I make the course evergreen, but at like, a higher price and without a live element, and then a. Do, like, occasional launches where we'll go through the course and do like, some of the live stuff. And it's like, then I do like kind of the launch window thing. That's where I'm. I'm trying to figure out that. Because I launched the course last month. Yeah. And it'd be cool if money was coming in like today. So that's where you do, like, figure out the evergreen as well. I'm not sure.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah. Did you do pre sale?

[Jesse]

No, I did like a. I did like a launch window. I did. I don't know if you know Jeff Walker.

[Unknown Host 2]

Oh, yeah. The.

[Jesse]

The whole product launch formula thing. I basically, I read the book a year ago and I was like, that's cool, I should do that. And then I got distracted by things. But then with this, I was like, I'm just going to follow it exactly as the book says for this launch.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay.

[Jesse]

And then see how that goes. And it went pretty well. The one thing that didn't work well for me was doing like a webinar. And so I did like, like a masterclass webinar sort of thing and that it didn't seem to move the needle at all. For me, but like referring again back to the lab. I posted about it in the lab and I got like, I don't know, like 15 replies of people were like, oh, well that's because you got to do this and you got to do this. So part of me was hoping that it would like, that it would flop. And I think that's probably why it flopped. You know, it's like I did, I did a good job, I think, but I didn't optimize in a lot of the ways I probably could have.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And so part of me was like hoping that I wouldn't have to do it, but I probably just need to do it better.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Next time around.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah. Let's see if I can sort of half ass this thing.

[Jesse]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Unknown Host 2]

It'll still succeed maybe.

[Jesse]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Unknown Host 2]

I feel that. I feel that. Cool. So the other thing I think that you could. You mentioned it to. With the paid, like, what do I do with these, you know, 400 paid subscribers?

[Jesse]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

You could either like just put that the monthly amount that they're paying towards maybe the new membership, which isn't a much, like eight bucks. Or. Or you could just be like maybe look at grandfathering them in or something to some degree or giving them some kind of special discount for loyalty of being with you for X amount of.

[Unknown Host 1]

Time or I don't know, but depending on how much they paid, maybe.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

Discount. That would get a little tricky.

[Unknown Host 2]

Get muddy.

[Jesse]

Yeah. But the thing I'm wrestling with is should I aim to kill the paid subscription through Substack and try to move those people over to, you know, whatever I'm doing for like circle Community or whatever. Like a just a stripe membership that's no longer tied to the subject thing. That's. I think that's sort of the thing I'm trying. Like, should I be trying to move those people or do I still sort of have both?

[Unknown Host 2]

My gut says like, yes, I would eliminate that. But you also don't want to do that before. You know, the other thing is.

[Jesse]

I know that's exactly like I don't want to turn off the money. That's like helping, you know, put groceries on the table right now. So there's that kind of thing to figure out first.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Because like I said, like, for. It's not. It's not enough to sustain us, but it's some money that's coming in right now while I don't have a job. And so that's the, like, how do I figure it out without Turning off a valve that brings money into my bank account.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yes.

[Unknown Host 1]

I think if you set up a decent enough email sequence to those people specifically and say, like, hey, here's the direction of moving. You can keep paying if you'd like, but I don't want you to just pay for something you're not really getting.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Unknown Host 1]

And then you can offer them, like, however much off the course if you want. If they want to upgrade.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Host 1]

But, yeah, if you're not spending time there and like, you're. It's just kind of like, well, that was cool that happened. Like, they're not really getting too much more. It might be something to migrate away from.

[Unknown Host 2]

It's like, it'd be nice if they just. Everybody was getting the same value in the same spot. Right?

[Jesse]

Totally. Because that's the. I didn't even mention this, but before, for a little while, I had a Patreon and not very many people were there. And so it was like, it wasn't bringing in much money, but I felt constant guilt about it. But I also couldn't because I was. My time was so limited. I couldn't justify putting time into something that only, you know, like, 30 people were going to see.

[Unknown Host 2]

Right.

[Jesse]

I was like, I can't. I got to just do it free. So it was never worth it to put time into something for these 30 people. But they're giving me money every month. It was such a bad kind of dynamic. So I just, like, shut that off and like, just said, thank you so much for supporting. I'm going to be shutting this down.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah. Come pay for my dollar a month subscription. Subscription.

[Jesse]

Yeah. And so unfortunately, I mean, no, fortunately, I have the problem of a lot of people are subscribed on. On Substack. So I just have to figure out how to. Yeah. Kind of navigate that cleanly to hopefully get them moved on to something that. That works a little bit better.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And like, you, like you said, like, I have. I'm only offering, like a thing to a. To one type of community, not trying to manage several different ones with different. Yeah, that's like a whole mess.

[Unknown Host 2]

I think it would be interesting. We only have a few minutes left, but I'd be really curious, like, how you. What channels you were using just to really, like, see a lot of growth. Because I know you were like, you were growing on Twitter quite a bit.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

And then you started posting. I think you said, like, your cousin's wife was on Instagram and.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

And then you kind of started following those footsteps. A bit to yourself.

[Jesse]

Yeah. So. So my wife's cousin, she's. She was really big on Instagram.

[Unknown Host 2]

That's right.

[Jesse]

And I was only doing Twitter. That was like. That was my channel. I did TikTok for, like, a brief window of time and had some success there, but it, like, ate my brain. I was just, like, constantly thinking of, like, what's the next TikTok going to be? And so that was like a mental health choice of, like, I just. I can't do this. So I cut that off. But, yeah, so I was Primarily just doing TikTok or Twitter and the newsletter. And then so my wife's cousin, she actually lives, like, east coast, but her mom lives where I live. And so I was actually talking with her at some random family event.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And she's like, oh, you should. You should sign up for Instagram. My daughter's doing so well there. And I was like, well, maybe I can just do, like, the bare minimum version of, like, literally just screenshotting my tweets and posting it on Instagram. And I did that, and it freaking worked. So it was really like. It were. Yeah, it worked really well, and I was able. So I'm kind of a weird Instagrammer because I don't really do. Occasionally I'll do, like, a reel, but for the most part, I know a lot of the, like, most of the other ADHD content creators that are really big on Instagram, and they are all, like, doing the reels, like, stories.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

You pull up the thing with the stories, and it's got like, you know, like 23 little dots or whatever, because they're just posting stuff all day long. And I'm like the weirdo that most people on the following Instagram don't even maybe know what I look like other than my avatar, because I'm just, like, not really posting that sort of content there. But because of that, I've really been able to use, like, my. My content format is kind of weird. It's just kind of this, like, I do, like, tweets, basically, like, little kind of joke meme kind of quips or something. And that's really been something that I kind of just stumbled on to, like, for whatever reason, I seem to be good at this, like, kind of connecting the ADHD experience to, like, I. I get a lot of replies from people that say, I feel both seen and attacked.

[Unknown Host 1]

I think I've commented that exact phrase on a couple of your posts.

[Jesse]

Right. Which I love that. I think that's so, so, so funny. So great. But because that text content is kind of my main thing, I'm able to post it like almost everywhere.

[Unknown Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And so I, So I'm on Twitter. Blue sky threads, Mastodon, Instagram, LinkedIn. LinkedIn. Are you LinkedIn? It doesn't work as much. It doesn't work hardly at all. I, I keep considering like, maybe I should just turn off the LinkedIn because it's never. I think I have like 2,000 followers there and so it just like pales compared to where I'm in most places. And yeah, I feel like, I feel like if I'm going to really do LinkedIn, I need to like have a LinkedIn strategy because the quip tweets sort of thing that I do works everywhere else, but not, not LinkedIn. It's just not business savvy enough, I think.

[Unknown Host 1]

Are you, are you automating these platforms together?

[Jesse]

Yeah. So I use buffer.

[Unknown Host 2]

Okay.

[Jesse]

Yeah. And I have, I actually have. So I, at one point I. So I exported all my tweets from Twitter and I had this giant database and I, Before I would have really helped. I was like manually doing all this stuff to sift through that data to. Basically now I have a giant notion table that has like all the like tweets that I did for like two or three years.

[Unknown Host 1]

Wow.

[Jesse]

And then I use that to help. And I have like, because I exported all the data from Twitter, I have like how many likes it got and retweets and things like that. So I'm able to like sort through that. And I was really precious about it for a while, not wanting to repurpose content. And now I'm fully in on the like. It's like every time I post it I, I still get comments that clearly people are seeing this for the first.

[Unknown Host 1]

Time or they just don't remember, or.

[Jesse]

They just don't remember that adhd.

[Unknown Host 2]

They might be like, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse]

And I think so. Before I did it, I was so worried that someone's going to be like, didn't you post this already? Or something like that. And I've never gotten a single one of those.

[Unknown Host 1]

Amazing.

[Jesse]

Which is wild. I was so worried about it. And no one ever said that. And the only thing I would get, sometimes I have somebody actually say something like, oh, I love this one. Which is kind of funny. Like, oh, they see it, they know I'm repurposing it and they love that there's no problem with it all. So it's so easy to just get in your head about that sort of.

[Unknown Host 2]

Self conscious and stuff.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the head trash. Yeah. You're just like, yeah, yeah. It's no. It's no good. And so a lot of that, I think, just, like, I like to say, like, start messy and then keep going. And so I really try to embrace that and just, like, just do the thing, find out what happens. Maybe. Maybe it's something you need to retreat from. But it's so easy to retreat from something and just be like, oh, that's not working, or people don't like that. I'll stop doing that, and everyone will forget literally tomorrow, and it doesn't really matter. And so I feel like it's so easy to get in your head and think everything is permanent. Like, I have to. I do that a lot with the newsletter. Like, I have to have the perfect format where I've got this here and then this thing, and then I do that there, and then if I change it next week, everyone will, I don't know, be upset for some reason, and no one cares about that stuff.

[Unknown Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

So, yeah, I think it's. The overthinking is something I'm sure so many of us just struggle with.

[Unknown Host 1]

I've struggled with that a lot. Like, writing deep dives every week got very, very hard. And so, like, I've definitely strayed away from it a little bit. And people still love what I put out. It's like, they're like, it doesn't matter if it's a deep dive. And some people still call the things that I put out deep dives. And I'm like, okay, sure, yeah.

[Unknown Host 2]

Jesse, it's been so awesome.

[Jesse]

Absolutely.

[Unknown Host 2]

Like, feel like you're like an old friend. Like, we're just, like, shooting the. And, yeah, we're just, like, really cheering you on. I think you're a great guy and we're happy to see you in person and hang out here. So thanks for hanging out with us and sharing your story, man.

[Jesse]

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for inviting me. This has been awesome. I feel the same. It's just like hanging out with some friends. Yeah. Just chatting about random business stuff, and I love it. It's great.

[Unknown Host 1]

We'll have to do a round two in a Maybe a year or so and see how your stuff's changed and stuff.

[Jesse]

Yeah. When I'm like, big time.

[Unknown Host 1]

That's right, you're already big time.

[Unknown Host 2]

Quickly share where people can find you and you.

[Jesse]

Yeah. So my username is ADHD Jesse on all of the platforms I mentioned, which is great that I have that. I got the same one everywhere. And then my newsletter is Extra focus dot com.

[Unknown Host 2]

Beautiful.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Love it.

[Unknown Host 2]

Thank you again.

[Jesse]

Thanks.

[Unknown Host 2]

I think that's a podcast.