The Cross-Promo Playbook: Strategies That Actually Work (Without Wasting Time)

Summary

Growth In Reverse Podcast: Episode Summary

Title: The Cross-Promo Playbook: Strategies That Actually Work (Without Wasting Time)
Hosts: Chenell Basilio and Dylan Redekop
Release Date: April 23, 2025

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In this episode of the Growth In Reverse podcast, hosts Chenell Basilio and Dylan Redekop delve deep into the art of cross-promotions and collaborations as pivotal strategies for growing newsletter audiences. Drawing from their extensive experiences and real-world examples, they provide listeners with actionable insights, best practices, and cautionary tales to harness the true potential of cross-promo strategies without falling into common pitfalls.

1. Introduction to Cross-Promotions and Collaborations

Chenell kicks off the episode by highlighting the significance of collaborations in expanding email lists and building valuable relationships within and beyond one's niche. She emphasizes that cross-promotions are not limited to the creator economy but are beneficial across various industries.

Chenell (00:17): "If you love writing and you're good at writing, this is a really strong strategy."

Dylan echoes this sentiment, reflecting on his early strategies of reaching out for cross-promotions and acknowledging the rollercoaster of successes and failures that come with it.

Dylan (00:55): "One of the ways that I first started growing my newsletter back in the day was reaching out to people and trying to set up cross promotions."

2. The Necessity of Cross-Promotions Amidst Changing Social Media Algorithms

The hosts discuss the declining effectiveness of traditional social media platforms like Twitter and LinkedIn for organic growth due to evolving algorithms that limit reach. They argue that relying solely on these platforms can be unpredictable, making cross-promotions a more stable and controllable growth strategy.

Chenell (02:07): "Multiples have started tanking reach... it's getting more crowded."

Dylan (03:13): "Impressions have gone down... cross promotions and collaborations are much more important."

3. Types of Cross-Promotions and Collaborative Strategies

a. Newsletter Swaps

The most rudimentary form of cross-promotion involves mutually mentioning each other's newsletters within an issue. This method is low-effort and can be an effective starting point for those new to cross-promotions.

Chenell (04:50): "A cross promo in your mind is probably just a typical, like sort of a newsletter swap, mention swap."

Dylan (05:06): "Newsletter swaps are easy to set up, they're pretty low lift and they can work."

b. Dedicated Content

Beyond simple mentions, creating dedicated content pieces about each other's newsletters can significantly boost subscriber counts. An example discussed is the collaboration between Alex Garcia and Pat Walls, where Pat created a comprehensive video about Alex’s journey, garnering substantial views and new subscribers for Alex.

Chenell (08:17): "Alex Garcia wrote a deep dive on Pat Walls that resulted in 150,000 views."

c. Co-Created Content

Co-creating in-depth content, such as extensive articles or playbooks, can position both parties as authority figures in their respective niches. Maya Voye's collaboration with Akash Gupta is highlighted as a sterling example, where co-authored, lengthy pieces attracted significant new subscribers.

Chenell (25:05): "Co-created content, like Maya Voye's 10,000+ word articles, can be a scalable strategy if done correctly."

4. Case Studies and Real-World Examples

The hosts share numerous examples to illustrate effective cross-promo strategies:

• Pat Walls and Alex Garcia: Pat's in-depth video about Alex led to a surge in Alex's email subscribers.

• CJ Gustafson's Triple Stack Approach: CJ writes guest posts for SaaS companies, repurposing existing content to gain exposure. This method not only earns him sponsorship fees but also drives free and paid subscribers to his newsletter.

Chenell (31:35): "CJ charges $6-12k for a 4-pack of guest posts, leveraging his existing content to gain significant exposure."

5. Best Practices and Lessons Learned

a. Quality Over Quantity

Chenell emphasizes that the alignment and quality of the audience are more critical than the sheer size. A smaller, highly targeted audience can yield better results than a larger, misaligned one.

Chenell (17:26): "Size of the audience isn't as important as quality and alignment of the content."

b. Systematize the Process

Creating a system for cross-promotions can streamline the process, making it less daunting and more effective over time. This includes having templates, clear communication, and tracking mechanisms in place.

Dylan (24:09): "Once you have a system in place, cross promotions don't feel like they took hours to set up."

c. Tracking and Analytics

Effective tracking is paramount to measure the success of cross-promotions. Utilizing tools like UTM parameters in Google Analytics helps in attributing new subscribers to specific collaborations.

Chenell (35:45): "Set up UTM parameters to accurately track where your subscribers are coming from."

d. Persistence and Relationship Building

Even if initial cross-promotions don’t yield immediate results, building and maintaining relationships can lead to future successes. The act of collaborating itself opens doors to new opportunities.

Dylan (24:59): "Even if the collaboration doesn't go as expected, you've established a new connection that could lead to future opportunities."

6. Common Pitfalls and How to Avoid Them

a. Neglecting Quality Control

Chenell shares a personal anecdote where a failed cross-promotion taught her the importance of ensuring that promotional content is properly integrated and enticing enough to convert subscribers.

Chenell (20:10): "I did a cross promo with someone and got zero subscribers because my newsletter wasn't effectively promoted."

b. Overlooking Audience Alignment

Collaborating with an audience that isn’t aligned can lead to poor conversion rates. It’s essential to ensure that both parties’ audiences overlap in interests and needs.

7. Advanced Strategies for Cross-Promotions

a. Adjacent Industry Collaborations

Venturing into adjacent industries can tap into new audiences without overlapping too much. For instance, a woodworking newsletter collaborating with a 3D printing creator can cross-pollinate audiences effectively.

Chenell (14:27): "Collaborate with someone in an adjacent industry, like woodworking with 3D printing."

b. Multi-Platform Collaborations

Leveraging various platforms beyond newsletters, such as YouTube, podcasts, and social media, can diversify and amplify the reach of cross-promotions.

Dylan (10:46): "You can collaborate across different platforms like YouTube, TikTok, or Instagram to reach varied audiences."

8. Implementing a Successful Cross-Promo Strategy

Chenell introduces her upcoming course designed to guide listeners through setting up effective cross-promotions, emphasizing the importance of having a structured approach to avoid frustration and maximize results.

Chenell (40:34): "Building a system makes cross promotions easier and more effective."

Dylan concurs, highlighting the value of maintaining records and having pre-prepared promotional materials to streamline collaborations.

Dylan (41:24): "Keeping track of your cross-promotions in a spreadsheet or database makes your life a lot easier."

9. Final Tips and Recommendations

• Create Ready-to-Use Promotional Materials: Having pre-written blurbs and templates can reduce friction for collaborators, increasing the likelihood of successful promotions.

• Leverage Social Proof: Utilize testimonials and positive feedback from your audience to entice potential collaborators.

• Be Clear and Transparent: Clearly define the nature of the collaboration, ensuring both parties have aligned expectations regarding the promotion's prominence and format.

Dylan (45:12): "Be clear on what type of collaboration you're doing, whether it's a mention, a dedicated piece, or something more prominent."

10. Conclusion

Chenell and Dylan wrap up the episode by reiterating the power of cross-promotions and collaborations in growing newsletter audiences. They encourage listeners to approach these strategies with a structured plan, quality content, and a readiness to build meaningful relationships. The hosts also hint at future episodes where they will feature guests who have successfully implemented these strategies, providing even more insights and inspiration.

Dylan (47:22): "This was really valuable and interesting. A lot of people will get a lot of value out of it."

Chenell (47:39): "I'm excited to talk more about this and get some people on here who have done good collaborations and get their take."

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Key Takeaways:

1. Quality Over Size: Prioritize collaborations with aligned and high-quality audiences over merely large ones.

2. Systematize Collaborations: Develop templates and tracking systems to streamline the cross-promo process.

3. Diverse Strategies: Explore various types of cross-promotions, including newsletter swaps, dedicated content, and co-created content across multiple platforms.

4. Effective Tracking: Implement tracking mechanisms like UTM parameters to measure the success of collaborations accurately.

5. Build Relationships: Even unsuccessful collaborations can lead to valuable connections for future growth opportunities.

6. Avoid Common Pitfalls: Ensure audience alignment and quality control to maximize the effectiveness of cross-promotions.

By adhering to these strategies and lessons, newsletter creators can effectively harness cross-promotions and collaborations to significantly grow their subscriber base and enhance their content's reach.

Transcript

[Chanel]

The one that I keep seeing that I'm so excited about is content. It's so good.

[Dylan]

It doesn't feel like, oh, this took me two hours to set up and I only got three subscribers from it.

[Chanel]

People loved it. Like, his audience ate that stuff up. But it makes me wonder, like, how did they grow their email list?

[Dylan]

I think this is a really strong strategy, especially if you love writing and you're good at writing.

[Chanel]

I didn't do that. That would have been smart. Hello, and welcome back to the Growth and Reverse podcast. I'm Chanel.

[Dylan]

And I'm Dylan.

[Chanel]

And we talk a lot about newsletters on this show. And we actually have a community called Growth and Reverse Pro where we've been talking a lot about doing collaborations, cross promotions, that kind of thing. And so I thought it'd be kind of fun to kind of talk through and synthesize, like, how we think about those things, give some examples of different types and how you can do them better, and just kind of nerd out about it. What do you think?

[Dylan]

I think it's a great idea. That was one of the. One of the ways that I first started growing my newsletter back in the day was reaching out to people and trying to set up, like, cross promotions and that sort of thing, and with some. Some successes and some failures all mixed in there. And I know you can speak to that as well. So I think this will be a informative episode along with, like, maybe some mistakes that we made or some lessons we learned that hopefully we can help other people avoid.

[Chanel]

Totally. Yeah, I'm excited. I definitely ran a lot of cross promotions in the beginning of the newsletter journey for me, and I'm doing more of them these days. We can kind of jump into that in a little bit. But, yeah, I'm excited. I think there's such an untapped opportunity to not only grow your email list, but also build those valuable relationships with other creators and people in your industry. And this is not just for creators, talking about creators. This is for any niche or industry I think could benefit from some type of collaboration with other people.

[Dylan]

Yeah, definitely. You'll get the idea that it's not just for kind of the creator economy, if you will. There's. There's a whole bunch of different ways you can do this and different people you can reach out to. So I think. I think it's important, too, to touch on why we are kind of bullish on cross promotions and collaborations, too.

[Chanel]

If you've been on social media trying to grow your email list that way recently, you probably noticed that a lot of the algorithms and social media platforms are kind of changing all the time. This has always happened. But I feel like multiples have started tanking reach in a sense more recently. So Twitter, I mean, we don't really have to say much about that. That is just like it's no man's land unless you have like the right content right now. But I think people like me and you, Dylan, I know you were on there in like 2022, 2023. It was great. It was awesome. You could easily build a subscriber base, meet cool people. I think we actually connected through, through Twitter as well as Jay's community. And so I think it's just not the same anymore. Like it's still okay, but it's not the same at the same point. LinkedIn has been kind of dropping reach as well. It's still great. I still think it's kind of like the Twitter of 2023. Ish. But impressions are going down. It's getting a little bit harder as more and more people transition from Twitter over to LinkedIn. So I think it's getting more crowded that way too.

[Dylan]

Yeah, absolutely. I even noticed just from at the beginning of 2025 we did like a 30 day LinkedIn growth challenge. And it was great. Cause I was posting every day, I was growing, I was getting a decent amount of impressions. Definitely more than when I was not posting. Hardly at all. Funny how that works. And. But I found now about into Q2 of 2025, still posting pretty regularly, but impressions have gone down pretty significantly, at least on average. So more validation to me that doing cross promotions and collaborations and that sort of, that sort of growth planning and pipeline is that much more important because we have a bit more control over that than we do what happens with the algorithms?

[Chanel]

It's getting dicey out there. I even saw this morning, this morning I saw on Instagram threads, like their threads platform. I saw the first ad. Oh, I saw an ad. I haven't seen an ad on there yet. So I guess they're actually testing monetization. So that's even going to go down, I'm sure.

[Dylan]

Of course they are. Yeah. Then yeah, they're going to tank impression so that they'll. You'll have to pay to get eyeballs. Just like Facebook.

[Chanel]

It's only a matter of time.

[Dylan]

It was. Yep.

[Chanel]

Yeah. So I guess we've been talking about cross promos, collabs. Um, let's give some examples of types of collaborations and cross promos. I mean, I think if You've been in the newsletter space for any stretch of time. A cross promo in your mind is probably just a typical, like, I'll talk about your newsletter, you talk about my newsletter in a little blurb. So somewhere inside of an issue of your email and we'll send each other subscribers. And that's great. And that does work. And I think that could be a good effective way. But there are plenty of other options as well.

[Dylan]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's kind of the most basic, I think rudimentary version of like a cross promotion is just like sort of a newsletter swap, mention swap, if you will. They're easy to set up, they're pretty low lift and they can work. So it's a good place to start, for sure.

[Chanel]

Absolutely. Yeah. So there's newsletter swaps you can swap. You can have them talk just about your newsletter. You can give them a specific lead magnet. You want them to promote a different resource. Could be like an email course even, which I guess could technically be a lead magnet, but in a way they're different for me.

[Dylan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chanel]

You can share different articles. Like I could go to Dylan and I could go to Dylan and say, hey, I wrote this deep dive on XYZ person. Can you share it in your upcoming, you know, newsletter?

[Dylan]

Yep.

[Chanel]

That's a version of a swap as well.

[Dylan]

Yep. It works if you're just doing it one way then as I guess that's more of just like outreach to get like pr. But if you are, you know, offering to share something of theirs as well, then obviously that brings in the cross promotion, the cross aspect of that into play. So if you are reaching out to do. To kind of promote an article for somebody then or in their newsletter, then you'll definitely want to, you know, offer, hey, do you have anything that I could share in my newsletter? Because they're going to be much more inclined to reciprocate if you're going to do the same.

[Chanel]

Totally. Yeah. This is the most common one that I've done, but I've also done a couple other options as well and seen more done recently. I think one of the other ones that comes to mind is like a dedicated piece of content. So like, if I were to write a deep dive on Dylan and how Dylan grew his newsletter, that could be a form of a swap. I haven't done that with my deep dives just. Cause I feel like it's weird, but I know other people do. I know Peggy McCormick has done, or at least used to. He did sponsored deep dives so companies would Reach out. If he felt like it was a good fit, they would pay him. I think at one point it was like 20 grand, an article or something crazy to do a sponsored deep dive. I mean, he would be honest about everything and, like, write down the whole story and the journey of their company. But people loved it. Like, his audience ate that stuff up, even though it was sponsored.

[Dylan]

Yeah. I think because he came, it wasn't just like an advertorial type of like, oh, I'm going to write some nice words about this company. It was like, actually like he was critiquing the company and exposing maybe some flaws or some things you should look out for. And it wasn't just like, oh, they're paying me, so I'm going to say every nice thing under the sun about them. So I think that's really interesting. If you can. And if you can get 20 grand for a deep dive, then power to you.

[Chanel]

Yeah, don't quote me on that number. I might be forgetting the right number, but I'm pretty sure that's what it was at this point. I just looked. Paki has over 241,000 subscribers, so a decent chunk of change for one of those anymore.

[Dylan]

Oh, yeah.

[Chanel]

But, yeah, that was something I've seen as well.

[Dylan]

Yeah, that's. It's a good strategy to. To. To go down if you can be. If you're permitted to be critical to some degree about it. If you're doing that kind of a deep dive, then I would be hesitant to take money from somebody where I'm just like, only publishing the good stuff about it.

[Chanel]

And I guess as we go down, I just wanted to call this out, as we go down this list of different kinds of cross promos and collaborations. It's important to remember that while we're talking about specific newsletters or written content, a lot of these can translate into podcast episodes, YouTube episodes, Instagram posts, all kinds of things. So the format is. It can change, but, like, the overarching, like, theme of these stays the same.

[Dylan]

Yeah, the collaboration is the. The main point. What you collaborate on and what platform you collaborate on is sky's the limit. You can do it. You can do it anywhere and everywhere. So, yeah, don't let you. You thinking if you're like, I haven't really started a newsletter. I have a really small newsletter audience. If you've got like a growing social media presence or YouTube channel or something along those lines, then there's still opportunity for you to collaborate with people and bring them new subscribers and in trade off for hopefully them exposing you to their audience as well.

[Chanel]

On the dedicated content side of things. One of the more interesting examples I've seen, and we only know the back end of this because they're creators and they talk about the numbers. But Alex Garcia from Marketing Examined and Pat Walls and how they did their collaboration. Yeah, um, so I think Pat Walls run Starter Story, which at the time was a website and a newsletter about how founders got their start. And then he transitioned into a YouTube channel which has exploded, like completely taken off. Um, but at the time I think he had like 30,000 YouTube subscribers.

[Dylan]

Okay.

[Chanel]

And so he and Alex Garcia from Marketing examined, who had 30,000 email subscribers, were like, hey, let's do a collaboration. And so Pat recorded a full video about Alex's story, like shared his journey and all this stuff. It was a great video. Um, and that it got like hundreds of thousands of views. I think at this point it's like 150,000 views. And then on the, on the flip side, Alex wrote this nice piece about Pat Walls and like shared Starter Story in his newsletter. So it was like a, a different kind of collaboration in the sense that one was a video, one was an article. It worked out well. I think Alex Garcia said He got like 5 to 10,000 subscribe like Email subscribers from video. And that was in the beginning when it had just launched. So I'm sure it's even higher now.

[Dylan]

Oh, I'm sure he's been getting like just, you know, kind of that trickle in subscriber effect. As soon as the algorithm kind of picks up this video and starts showing it to a bunch of people, it's like, oh, I just got another 150 or thousand subscribers from, from that YouTube video, you know, six months, a year later, which is. I'm sure he's gotten a lot of, a lot of trickle in effect of Pat's channel blowing up. For sure. Trickle is probably the wrong word. It's probably a lot, a lot heavier of a rush of subscribers from it.

[Chanel]

Fire hose. But so I thought that one was cool. And I always like to use that as an example because it's just, it opens your mind to like, hey, they don't have to be the exact same type of content and they don't have to be on the exact same format.

[Dylan]

No, it could be something on. I think what would be cool is like you're talking about the same topic, but you. There's a video creator talking about it in your newsletter, just like these guys talking about it and not necessarily even YouTube, but maybe a Tiktoker or a somebody who's got a really good Instagram audience. You can collaborate with these two different platforms and share this great Instagram account or this great post, or this great tip from this Instagram account that's in the same vertical as you, or the same niche or the same industry. And they can share your newsletter on their. One of their posts as well. So I think there's definitely an opportunity that people aren't doing as much because we just think like, oh, I write a newsletter, so I need to collaborate with other newsletter writers. Whereas, you know, Alex and Pat proves you don't have to do it that way. And I think there is an opportunity to kind of cross pollinate, if you will, from one sort of form format, audio, video written to another. So something to keep in mind for sure. Yeah.

[Chanel]

I think this could be really interesting for someone who is, you know, maybe they're natively a LinkedIn person, but they collaborate with someone on Instagram and then you're almost like launching your Instagram with another person so you can have them like promote your Instagram account if it's new. That's not gonna necessarily drive email subscribers, but I do think it's a cool way to kind of launch a new channel.

[Dylan]

Yeah, well, I mean, it's great for at least top of funnel. Right? So if you have somebody else who's got 10, 20,000 subscribers or sorry, followers on Instagram and you maybe you have a dormant, like me, a dormant brand Instagram account, then why not? If you're gonna, if you have a plan to kickstart it, this would be a great way to do that. So finding somebody who'd be willing to share it with you or share, share your account with their audience, where you share your, their Instagram account in your newsletter or, or wherever that might be would be a good way to do it. It would be a good way to like revive an existing account that's maybe gone a little bit dormant.

[Chanel]

I think that's an interesting one.

[Dylan]

Yeah, I like that.

[Chanel]

Um, what examples do you have that you like thinking about?

[Dylan]

The Alex and Pat one is, is a really good one that, that's the one that I keep coming back to. I just think in general the, I like thinking about it from the angle of more the industry or format or topic. Not format, but topic or niche that you're in. And there's people who are creating content on all different types of platforms with, with within your niche. So I like thinking about it more in that regard for these kind of cross promotional opportunities that are maybe a little bit more unorthodox. So if you are. We talked about the creator space. So just as an example, that's probably a bad example because there's so many people already doing this in the creator space. But let's say I'm looking at my desk. Let's say you're in the woodworking space, right. And you're writing a newsletter about woodworking and woodworking builds and how you're building out furniture for people. And then you see a Instagram account that's like really crushing it. That would be like a natural fit to swap there. That's just like a very top of, top of the head idea.

[Chanel]

But yeah, I like this. Let's pull on this thread a little bit because this makes me think of. I, I go down rabbit holes sometimes. I ended up on YouTube a couple weeks ago and I was watching this carpenter and he was so good and like, I'm not a woodworker person. Like, I think it'd be awesome to be able to do that. But I, I don't know where I got down this rabbit hole, but he was showcasing how he used a 3D printer to like make different tools that serves specific purposes, but they don't sell them anywhere. So like you can buy his plans. But this makes me think like, if, if you're a woodworker or whoever and you collaborate with like maybe some guy who does 3D printing, like, that could be an interesting one. Yeah. And then you're cross pollinating on each.

[Dylan]

Channel adjacent industries, but not like, yes, cannibalizing each other's growth. That's really smart. Yeah, I love that.

[Chanel]

Yeah. So I think that could be an interesting one. And adjacent is like the sweet spot. I think adjacent audiences are the sweet spot. Instead of trying to go after like the exact same person who talks to the exact same audience, like, maybe you find someone who's talking to the same audience but in a different way, like that woodworker and the 3D printer. Or I always come back to like, you're like a CFO or a finance person, like a personal finance person. And you're talking to dads. Right. So go to the, the dad channels that are like dad runners or, I don't know, golfers or something and, and collaborate with those people. And then you could just do like one piece of content you're getting in front of the right audience. It's still a really good fit.

[Dylan]

Yeah, it really works well too. When you're like kind of a service provider. Or you have a, a product that can support them in a specific sort of niche or industry. That's smart. I think you give a good example of that in your, in your course that you're creating, right?

[Chanel]

Yeah, I guess so. In the Growth and Reverse Pro community, I'm like kind of slowly building out this course of like videos of me just like walking through how I do cross promos, ways you can do them better, giving away templates and that kind of thing. Um, so that'll launch to the public soon. But right now it's just for community members. They get it free cuz they're in there and they're more people. Um, so that's fun. But yeah, I think just having having people in different industries that you can collaborate with is so critical. Like it's just so important. Yeah, yeah. And it gets you out of the headspace of like only watching the same types of people and listening to the same podcast. Like if you can. Like this spans more than just getting subscribers. It's like expanding like the content you're consuming and the creativeness, creative creativity that you have with your work. I think that's such a big piece of this that a lot of us get bogged down and we like don't realize how much of the same stuff we're consuming over and over and over again.

[Dylan]

Yeah, Echo chamber effect.

[Chanel]

Yeah, totally.

[Dylan]

Big time. It's very true. And I think even like going back to what you were saying about somebody who's in, you know, the adjacent industries, I think there's still, there is still a, probably a significant play for somebody who is in the same industry. If there's like again, an audience where they're solely like a video creator, for example, they don't have a newsletter, so you're not going to cannibalize their audience that way. You, you write a newsletter and you've got a much more significant newsletter on the topic that still can. That overlap. You guys are talking to the same people, just the content's being consumed in a different way. I still think there is a valid and, I don't know, strong correlation between those audiences that could be really beneficial for both part.

[Chanel]

Yeah. And so before we move on and go to another type of this, I think it's important to talk about how it doesn't matter. I don't know, I don't know how to say this perfectly, but the size of their audience isn't as important as you might think.

[Dylan]

Think, yeah.

[Chanel]

Is what I really want to get across. So I don't know you might have 10,000 email subscribers and they only have 4,000 email subscribers, but maybe their audience is so perfectly aligned and targeted that they would probably send you more, more subscribers than someone who has a 20,000 person audience. And it's just like an okay fit. So I don't, I feel like people get really bogged down with like the size of an audience and not as much the quality and the alignment in the content and the audience. So I just want to make that clear before we keep moving because I see this happen a lot. People will be like, oh, Well, I have 20,000 subscribers and they only have five. And I'm like, honestly, they're probably a better fit for you. Like they might actually send you better quality people than someone who, with a much larger audience.

[Dylan]

Especially if, I mean, you can, you can look to like how long they've been growing their newsletter as well. Find out, I mean it, you can poke around and find out open rates and that sort of thing if you want, if you want to be a little bit nosy and see really if this is worth, worth your while. But yeah, I think size matters, but it also doesn't matter. So I think size matters in the sense of if you only have, you know, a thousand newsletter subscribers or 500 newsletter subscribers, you're probably not going to reach out to somebody who's got fifty thousand or a hundred thousand. Right. So like be cognizant of that and mindful that those creators probably, even if you are, have a hundred percent open rate, which is pretty much impossible, there's probably not really worth the effort for them or you're getting way more than they are. So think that through definitely before reaching out to somebody.

[Chanel]

I'm actually remembering that I did record a video of me being super sleuthy and walking around trying to find out like how this person grew their email list on there too. Because it's important, like somebody who's just like, not to poo poo on like paid recommendations. But if somebody's just growing through that or like free recommendations and not doing anything else, like the quality of their list might not be as high. And so there are certain checkpoints that you want to kind of pay attention to and make sure. Like, sure they have 15,000 subscribers. But wait, they just started last month. Like, how did they do that? It throws up a little red flag.

[Dylan]

Yeah, Facebook ads.

[Chanel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dylan]

Yeah. And I'm sure there are some good Facebook ads subscribers, Facebook ad driven subscribers. But at the same time it's like, I don't know, the the value of an organic subscriber is pretty powerful too, so it's definitely something you need to keep in mind.

[Chanel]

That's funny. Um, yeah. So quality of audience and size, two things to pay attention to. Size being less important in my mind than quality, so.

[Dylan]

Well, don't. Don't you have want to share your horror story? Not horror story, but your story.

[Chanel]

My horror story. In the early days, I can't remember my numbers now. I did a cross promotion with someone. I think I had a thousand subscribers and they had 4,000. And so when they said yes, I was over the moon. I was so excited. I was like, this is going to. This is it. I'm going to get like a hundred subscribers. It's going to be great. And then I got zero. It's the short story. I. I actually reached out to them and I was like, you know, did you include my newsletter? And they were like, totally. It was in the. The last email. And so, like, I went back and found it and it was. But I got no one, not a single subscriber. And they even had like a tracking link in there, right? So I would have seen, like, on the back end, like a UTM parameter come through of, like, this person's email, email list. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I got none. And so it was like, such a bummer. I was like. So it went from, like, super excited to, like, so bummed about this.

[Dylan]

So did you. Did they even get clicks or like. So my question is, like, how much can you attribute to maybe your landing page just not being good or good enough and not converting to them, just not pushing it? Because there's like two. There's two aspects to every newsletter ad you run or every link you include in your newsletter is like, first you have to get people to click on it. So it has to be enticing enough. And then once they click through on the other end, the copy, the landing page, the design, all of that needs to be enticing enough for them to convert yet again. So do you remember at all if you even got any traffic?

[Chanel]

I don't believe I did. I might, honestly. I went back to the Twitter DM because I had done this cross promo via Twitter dm.

[Dylan]

Okay.

[Chanel]

And I was so bad, like, I didn't even ask, like, how many clicks. I said, how many clicks mine drove. But I didn't ask again, like, to follow up and see. Um, I think I was just so bummed about it. I just, like, wanted to walk away.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Chanel]

And to answer your question about the landing page. The next week, I did a cross promo with someone who had like 1500 or 2000 subscribers, and I got like 45.

[Dylan]

Wow.

[Chanel]

Subscribers. So I. I think it was okay.

[Dylan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chanel]

But it makes me wonder, like, how did they grow their email list?

[Dylan]

Totally. And I think the other thing too is like, you can always go back historically and see, like, what your landing page conversion is. And so you can kind of anticipate, if they get me a hundred clicks, I'll probably get, you know, 30 subscribers or something like that. Right. You could kind of do the backwards math there and figure out if it's worth your while when you're kind of setting up these collaborations. Hey, how many clicks do you kind of tend to get on these types of links in your newsletter? And if they tell you and that number is way lower than you hope, then maybe it's not. Maybe it's not worth your while.

[Chanel]

So, yeah, I mean, it's all just kind of rolling with the punches and it does change. And I think, I think that experience made me really bummed to do more cross promos. Like the one that I did the following week. I had set up prior, and I think I took a break from it for a little while because I was like, this is not cool. So now that's why I'm creating, like, not to talk about it again, but this course to like, showcase, like, the mistakes I've made and like, what I would do better now and like, how to avoid some of these issues because it's so simple. But, like, looking back, I just shake my head, like, what were you doing?

[Dylan]

Well, I think it also.

[Chanel]

It's not that person's fault either. Totally.

[Dylan]

No, no. I think, I think a lot of it comes down to. It's always a heavy lift up front in the beginning too, when you're starting to do this and you don't really know the process and how to set them up, how to find the people, how to set them up, how to sell your newsletter, your lead magnet, kind of in copy form to an audience. So all that stuff takes a bit of heavy lifting. But once. I think the nice thing with cross promotion is once you kind of have that system in place and you have like, oh, yeah, here's my cross promo doc. Here are the, like two or three options of things that you can cross promote. Here's the link in the landing page. Fill in your. Your newsletter. In this UTM parameter, all this stuff gets a lot easier. And it doesn't feel like, oh, this took me two hours. To set up. And I only got three subscribers from it. That should scale out nicely over time as you do more of them.

[Chanel]

100%. And I see so many beginners, like, getting frustrated with cross promotions and they're like, that, I tried it once, it was not for me. It didn't do anything. And I'm like, okay, but there is a system you can put in place to make this easier and have it actually work. And you're building relationships. And I'm just like such a big proponent of this because it's so powerful.

[Dylan]

Well, even that alone, just like the value in building a relationship with somebody over email messaging, DMs, whatever that might be, or even if you hop on a 15 minute, you know, zoom call or whatever, that alone is valuable too. So even if the collaboration doesn't go as you both had hoped, you've kind of established a new connection, a new relationship that you never know where it could lead in the future. And I'm saying, I'm not saying set these up for kind of an ulterior motive of like networking. It's kind of a side benefit of setting these things up a hundred percent.

[Chanel]

All right, cool. Should we move on to another one?

[Dylan]

Let's move on.

[Chanel]

So I think the one that I keep seeing that I'm so excited about is co created content. I talked about this in my newsletter, Marketing Summit talk as well, but it's so good. Um, so one of the ones that I found more recently was with a woman named Maya Voye. She does go to market strategy for product people.

[Dylan]

Okay.

[Chanel]

And that's her thing. It's not about how to be a better product manager. It's like go to market strategy. And so she has been doing cross promotions with other product people in the space. And so she's not just doing cross promo, she's like writing, co writing these articles with them. So one example is with Akash Gupta, who we've had on the podcast before. And so he had this huge audience and I saw that she had done a collaboration article with him and I was like, oh, cool. So I like click through. I was expecting her to have like 40,000 subscribers. She had 3,000 subscribers, right? Because she had a hundred and something thousand subscribers. And I was like, whoa, how did this happen? Which was so cool. And so I saw that and I was like, we even asked Akash about it because it was. I was just so flabbergasted with it. And he was like, yeah, we were just like talking. And like, I have known her work through other things and like she's just, she's smart. So I figured like, let's collaborate on something.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Chanel]

And so I saw that she had done that collaboration article and two others the same month. Like I went back and I was like, wow, she's, this is her thing, this is how she grows her newsletter. And so when I saw it initially she, she was at 3,000 subscribers. Um, she then went on, last time I checked it was at 15,000. So this is working. Yeah, this definitely works.

[Dylan]

No, absolutely. And I think it's also important to know this. She's just not writing a 800 word article for Akash and these other people. Wasn't this like an 80 minute read?

[Chanel]

88 minute read.

[Dylan]

88 minute read.

[Chanel]

So I think it was like 10,000 plus words.

[Dylan]

Yeah. So she's put together not just a go to market strategy article, she's put together like a go to market playbook, like a book on how to do this, a short book, but still like this isn't just a small piece of content. So I think, I think probably that's what it takes to get on somebody's newsletter who has a hundred thousand subscribers. If you want to get like a byline or an article guest posted, I'm sure like Lenny Rachitski is another example. He just crossed a million subscribers on his substack and he even said in that post that like getting people to guest write articles, it does take him time because he definitely edits them and helps massage it and the pro and goes through the process with them alongside them. Um, so it's not like they just submit something to him and he publishes it. His guest posts are really, really well written and they're some of his most popular posts as well. So my, my hunch is that if you want to get your post on Lenny's substack, it's gotta be more than my depth, breadth, quality of content than just kind of like a obviously an AI generated, you know, blurb is not gonna work. But you get my point. It's gotta be something that's really worth publishing, that is a unique angle, that's in depth, tactical, all that stuff. So I think this is a really strong strategy, especially if you're good and you love writing and you're good at writing and you really know the topic that you're writing about. Then this is a, this could be a very, almost, I don't want to say quick growth strategy, but if you do it correctly, like Maya's done, then it could be actually a pretty scalable Strategy.

[Chanel]

Yeah. And I think the key with these like co created content, if you're gonna go after someone with a larger audience, I think the key is like find, go back through their backlog and see if there's a hole in their content library of like something you know super well that you could write a long form piece about and then write part of that piece and send it over and be like, hey, I wanna like keep writing this. Do you think like, would you be open to having this published? I saw that you don't talk about, you haven't talked about this yet. I've already written half of it. Or you can write the whole thing if you want. But I think that really goes a long way because you're removing the work from their side of it instead of being like, hey, I want to write for you and just like leaving it at that. Like that will probably never get an answer unless you're like very niche and specific in what you talk about and they know who you are. Yeah, I think that's a. One of the ways you're going to have to do this is like put the work in, show that you've done the research and then go pitch them on this.

[Dylan]

Yep. And that goes for kind of any type of pitch too. I think you're just more likely to get listened to and get a response and probably get the opportunity. If you've done a little bit of just like spend even like 10 minutes doing a bit of research, you have done more work than 90% of the pitches that they have received, I guarantee it. So put in a little bit of time to do that, a little bit of digging and obviously if it's a bigger audience, the bigger the audience probably the more time you want to put into it. If you show that you have actually paid attention to content they've created and you see an opportunity where they could, where you could support them and they would, they might be willing to say yes, then you're going to position yourself the best if you do that.

[Chanel]

And on the same token, these don't have to be co written articles. You could do like a guest post. If they take those, like don't pitch. Someone who does has never done a guest post before because it's going to be an instant no and they're going to be annoyed that you even reached out, most likely, unless you can talk to them in person and get an in. But if they don't take guests on their podcast, if they don't do guest posts, like don't reach out like that But I think on the same token of co created content, you could also just write a full piece for them.

[Dylan]

And then they, you could even have just a co co author byline similar to what I think Akash and Lenny both have done. Do you want to talk about CJ Gustafson as well?

[Chanel]

Sure, yeah. Yeah, CJ. CJ's awesome. CJ does. Well, at the time I called it the triple stack approach, but now I'm considering it's like a quadruple approach. Stack approach because he would write guest posts for like these SaaS companies. And so they have audiences, they have content that, that they need to create, but they don't want to necessarily talk about themselves over and over again. So he was like, hey, why don't I just like talk about you for you or like share something interesting that your audience would be excited to read. And so he started doing these for free and now he actually charges, he does sponsorships with them and he charges like 6 to $12,000 per like 4 pack of these. And the best part, so he's getting paid to write it, then most of the time they'll just like pull an article he's already published on his own site, right? So like he's not writing extra content, right. So it's content he's already written. He's getting paid like thousands of dollars per post. These pieces of content are getting sent out to these SaaS companies, email lists, which are often like ten, fifty, a hundred thousand people on their email list. So you're getting immediate distribution in front of another audience. And then like if somebody comes back to his site and then subscribes, like he has a paid newsletter. So like that's like the fourth side of this is he's just gonna like, he's initially getting paid for the posts, then he's getting free subscribers. And if they become paid subscribers, he's essentially getting paid again for those people, which is just, it's like so good. So good. I'm so excited about this.

[Dylan]

Yeah, I think the challenge, to me the challenge is finding the right, the business that you could do this with or a creator or whatever that might be who would be okay with paying for content that's already living on, on the web. But I just, this makes me think like, I think Justin Moore would just be like, like he would just, he would love this, right? Cause this is, he preaches like create content. Like, you don't even have to have an audience to get like, to create content for people. Just create really good content and send it Share it with them. And this is, it's kind of like basically what C.J. did. And I'm sure it was harder than that. But it's also that simple, right? Like create really good content, pitch it to these people. At the very least, you've created a, maybe a really high quality SEO article, an article you can share in your newsletter that people see that there's value in, they want to subscribe. Something you can share on social media. So you're creating a great asset for yourself. And then potentially you're creating a great asset for that actual partner who will share it and then drive subscribers your way who then might actually pay to subscribe to your paid newsletter. So, yeah, it's, it's like, it feels like a lot of work, but the payoff is just like pretty exponential if you get to. Can get it to that point.

[Chanel]

I want to figure out how to do this because it's so good. It's just so good. I can't stop talking about it.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Chanel]

Probably talked about like six times already on this podcast, but it's such a good strategy. So he'[e-mail] if you want to check out his strategy, where I wrote a deep dive and explained with some screenshots that you can check out too.

[Dylan]

Yeah, that's a. It's really good deep dive.

[Chanel]

We gotta get him on here.

[Dylan]

We do, we do. Do you. Have you met him?

[Chanel]

I met him at the newsletter conference last year.

[Dylan]

Oh, sweet. Okay. Okay.

[Chanel]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

Then cj, if you're listening, which you probably aren't, this is your invitation.

[Chanel]

I'll reach out. Yeah, yeah. And I think the last point with all of these, unless I missed one, but I think the last point is like, combinations of all of these are so important too. Like if you can, like we were kind of talking about before, if, if somebody has an Instagram channel and you have an email list, like you can combine some of these and do like a different. I don't know, it just makes it stronger, I think. And then you have more opportunities to pitch them again in three months and be like, hey, let's do another collaboration. Because one thing most people don't do is reach back out to the partners that had, they had great collaborations with and do them again. If it worked the first time, do it again. Like, it doesn't have to be a one time thing.

[Dylan]

Yeah, I agree. So what do you do? Let's run through some scenarios because people are probably wondering what happens if I do a collaboration or cross promotion and I get a Ton of subscribers, but I didn't drive that many for them.

[Chanel]

Well, you can do a couple things. I mean, you can ask or you can tell them you'll put it in their. In your newsletter again in a week or two. Um, I think you can also find other ways to promote their stuff. Whether it's like shouting them out on LinkedIn or if you have another channel that usually performs better, you can do that as well. I think those are two easy ways. Yeah.

[Dylan]

Have you ever. Have you ever had anybody come back at you asking, kind of like you did with that one person back in the day who you collabed with? Have you ever had anybody come back at you?

[Chanel]

Luckily, no. I think my audience loves exploring new newsletters, so when I do shout one out, they're like, excited to check it out. So I haven't had this issue, thankfully, but yeah, I would just keep promoting their stuff until they get something from it.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Chanel]

Because otherwise I'd feel really bad.

[Dylan]

Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, you are. You're a good person. So that makes sense. Um, do we talk about tracking? I think we should maybe quickly touch on that.

[Chanel]

Oh, yes. Yeah, we were. We had a call earlier, so we're doing the cross promos challenge in the community. Um, and we had a call and I was just kind of shocked that, like, most people weren't, I don't know, they didn't have a good system down for tracking. So in my world, like two days ago, I spent like hours figuring out Google Analytics, like GA4. Google Analytics, the original one, like RIP. I miss that thing so much. It was so much easier to, like, read and find what you needed. And then they launched GA4 and I just stopped looking at it. Not totally, but for the most part. But so I figured out how to set up a conversion, like an email conversion in Google Analytics, which sounds bonkers that I took this long to do it. But so now I have that laid out and so now I can accurately see, like, exactly which pages converted into email subscribers and people who sent me that or like, how many I'm getting from ChatGPT. I got a subscriber from yesterday, which is fun.

[Dylan]

Yeah, I had a few of those too recently. It's just really interesting.

[Chanel]

Yeah. So if you're just getting started with tracking, you don't have to go too crazy with it. Um, you can just have them put in, like, you know, on the end of your URL, say, like, okay, growthin reverse.com? which just tells the website like this isn't part of the page. URL R E F which stands for like referral I think. And then the equal sign. And then you can put in whatever you want. So you could say growthcurrency.net which is Dylan's website. So if he were sending me people, that's I could see like on the back end. Okay, Growth currency sent me two subscribers or 20 subscribers or whatever. Um, and so it's, it's pretty easy to do that. If you do that now, even if you don't look at it, you can always go back in the future and see it. So it's nice to have this stuff set up so that you have that data later on. Because if you don't do it ahead of time, like you're kind of out of luck.

[Dylan]

Yeah, you can't rewind and get those UTM parameters.

[Chanel]

Yeah, yeah, you can. Also for some people it might be easier just to like duplicate your form and convertkit or Beehive or whatever title it. You know, Dylan's cross promo and then give Dylan the link to that. I don't love that method because it's messy and hard to like move to other places. But if you are just getting started and that's the easiest way, you can do that too.

[Dylan]

Yeah, that works. I, I mean and worst case scenario too, if you, if you're a little bit confused with like these UTM parameters, just get chat G B T to create you one. I mean you, you probably could say do this for me and, and I'm sure it'll send you out something that's half decent. So yeah, can always do it.

[Chanel]

You could also use like go to Google and type in UTM builder. Yeah, and it'll give you a good tool.

[Dylan]

Yeah, tracking is important. Definitely try to do it.

[Chanel]

And okay, here's an even lower way to do it. So if you have a Google sheet and you put that person's name in the first row or the first column and then like put the date that they sent you people and then you can say how many clicks. Like ask them after, like a week later, hey, how many clicks did they get? Okay, so they said 57 or 570 or whatever. Put that in there. And then you can kind of like estimate your subscribers or you can see like how many you got that day. If you're not getting a ton each day as it is.

[Dylan]

It can be hard if you have people coming in in various different sources, but you can usually kind of get an, an idea of the average if you're not doing any kind of promotion or anything like that. Hey, I get an average of, you know, 10, 20 subscribers a day and all of a sudden today I got 60 or you know, there's an outlier day. You can usually attribute that. If you know what date the cross promotion happened, then it's. It's reasonable to attribute the, the growth or the significant increase to that cross promotion. For sure.

[Chanel]

So UTM parameters sound crazy and scary, but I would highly recommend that you have somebody add those to it. Because when someone comes to your website from an email, it's like a black box. Like Google does not know where they came from. Like even unless that person has UTM parameters and like it puts in like the title of the email. If they don't have that turned on, like Google Analytics will not show. It'll say like not set or direct traffic. So it's kind of important with email. Like, if you were to link to my site, Google Analytics would see that just like on your website.

[Dylan]

If I sent, hey, check out Growth in reverse in my newsletter and I just linked growthinverse.com, nothing, and people clicked on that and then went and subscribed. They would. You wouldn't see that that came from Growth Currency newsletter or from Kit even or anything like that.

[Chanel]

Yeah. Unless you have like in Kit they have like auto tagging. So it'll automatically add parameters.

[Dylan]

Okay.

[Chanel]

Have that turned on. But if not. Yeah, it's like a complete black box.

[Dylan]

Who has to turn that on the. Like me as the sender of the email.

[Chanel]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

Okay.

[Chanel]

Or you could just add like that ref code I was talking about earlier.

[Dylan]

Yeah, exactly. Fun Learning stuff every day.

[Chanel]

This is why I put the me walking through Google Analytics and how to set this up in that course too. Cause I was like, this is going to be way too confusing.

[Dylan]

Yeah. They don't even call it conversions anymore. Right? You were saying no key events.

[Chanel]

Key events. Yeah. Like what?

[Dylan]

Those are key events. Oh man, we got, we got 200 key events today. Yes.

[Chanel]

Not just events. Key events.

[Dylan]

Key events. Yeah. I'm sure there's rationale for it. The galaxy brings some of this stuff like overthink terms and names and just like keep it simple for the people.

[Chanel]

Could be like conversion events. Key events.

[Dylan]

Yeah, key events. Any last parting words of advice for cross promotions? Collaborations to the people.

[Chanel]

Build out a system. Figure out how to make it easier on yourself because these are worthwhile. And so if you can kind of just set yourself up for success beforehand makes it so much easier and you avoid so much frustration.

[Dylan]

Yeah, I agree. Really helpful thing is keeping track of this stuff in some kind of spreadsheet or database where you're like, these are the people I want to outreach to. These are the people I did outreach to. Here are the days that we are setting up a cross promotion. Even if you wanted to like estimate on their size of their newsletter or if they tell you, you can enter that information so you can get an idea of how much or how well it worked if you want to do it again with them. So all that stuff, if you can keep track of it, is just going to make your life a lot easier. And. And then I think one thing that I found very helpful is having like a Google Doc or something in notion that basically you can link to for your collaborator or cross promoter. If you're doing like cross promotion swaps, that kind of thing where it's just got all the details for that, the name of your newsletter, a blurb about your newsletter so they don't have to do as much thinking. They can definitely like, I'm sure you've let people write their own thoughts and feelings and opinions and ideas and all that for your newsletter when they're promoting it with their own words. So people can definitely do that. But if you make it that much easier for them by just like having them to be able to just copy and paste something right into their newsletter that's just lower friction, easier lift for them. So you're more likely to probably get yeses from that.

[Chanel]

Yeah. And honestly flip that around because it's going to be easier on you when they're like, hey, what do you want me to say? And then you're like, I don't know, I did this for so long. And even like look, going back, honestly, like going back I'd be like, wait, what did I tell that last person? I don't remember. And so I'd have to rewrite it multiple times. And like I hate talking about myself. So like figuring out the good way, like a good way to explain what I do was so hard.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Chanel]

And so even just creating like an Apple note with like your blurb is like very like step one, like do that and then you know, if you end up collaborating with someone in the future, you could just copy paste and it's so much easier.

[Dylan]

Yeah. And absolute worst case scenario, like just take the landing page copy from your page. I don't know, I think you should have kind of a one liner of what your newsletter is about anyway. So at the very least include that. But the other thing you could do, as I'm thinking about is, Chanel, you probably had a ton of people like already saying how great your newsletter was. You could have just probably swiped some of those comments and sort of been like, here's what people are saying or formulated sort of an explainer or some kind of social proof type of copy or tagline or promotional copy that you could have included with that. Because if you don't like talking about yourself, there's lots of other people who have. So you could always go that route too.

[Chanel]

I didn't do that. That would have been smart.

[Dylan]

Next time, next time.

[Chanel]

So many mistakes, so.

[Dylan]

And I think one other thing you could do actually. How would you feel about this? Again, probably depend on the size of your newsletter. But would you open it up to your newsletter audience that you are looking to do swaps and cross promotions? Because I know people have done that for advertisers.

[Chanel]

Yeah, I mean if it makes sense. Like for me, sure, it would probably make sense because all the people on my email list probably either have a newsletter or some kind of audience somewhere. Yeah, so it could work. But if you're like a golfer talking to golfers, like other golfers might not have a newsletter to swap with. So it might be a little challenging to actually convert that. But you could try, you could put a little thing at the bottom and see if anybody replies.

[Dylan]

Yes, that could work. Or just saying reply to my. Just hit reply and let me know. One other thing I just remembered too is making sure you are clear on what type of collaboration you're doing, what type of cross promotion you're doing, whether it's just kind of like a sort of a mention in your curated link section or at the end of your newsletter, or if it's going to be like a pretty prominent mention or if it's going to be like a whole newsletter send just based on them recommending your newsletter. So you want to make sure that you've established those parameters so that you're both kind of giving similar weight, I guess to the cross promotion and that that's predetermined and nobody's surprised.

[Chanel]

Yeah, definitely. Um, and that's another way, like if you have a smaller audience and they have a larger audience, you could always say hey, I'll, I'll dedicate a whole issue to yours because it's gonna drive more clicks likely. Or put em in the sponsor spot instead of like your typical cross promo spot or whatever it is. So yeah, that's a good call out. Make sure you're on the same page before you do it. Um, and then just have fun. It's supposed to be fun.

[Dylan]

Exactly.

[Chanel]

Collaborate with people. Enjoy yourself.

[Dylan]

Cool. This is good.

[Chanel]

This was good. Um, yeah. And I guess if you're interested in that course, when it does launch, eventually you can go to growth in reverse.com collabs or collab. I'll have them both set up. But yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna launch this eventually to the public.

[Dylan]

Yeah, I think it's.

[Chanel]

I think it's worthwhile and people need to do better collaboration. So I'm interested in getting that into other people's hands.

[Dylan]

I think it's huge. Again, just the way the. The algo rhythms are treating us these days and how hard it is to rely on them. And even if you get a significant amount of traction, it's still hard to convert people from social to a newsletter. It's not easy. So I think collaborations are very powerful. You can do them right and they can. They don't have to be this daunting thing. I am bullish on it. And I'll also even vouch I've seen this course or at least the amount of the portion. Portion of the corset. Chanel's already created and is really good. So I was like, oh, what. What could she teach me about cross. Cross promotions? I know I know how to do these. But no, I'm learning new stuff. It's really good. It's really tactical and I'm not just blowing smoke because I'm co hosting this with you. I thought it was actually legitimately really good.

[Chanel]

Awesome. Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

[Dylan]

No problem.

[Chanel]

It's good to hear.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Chanel]

Sometimes when you're creating these things in a vacuum, you're like, I hope this is helpful.

[Dylan]

No, it's good. And she. And get into the mind of Chanel too, because this is like how you do your deep dives.

[Chanel]

Right?

[Dylan]

Like you're like going down these rabbit holes, finding. Finding all how to find newsletters to cross remote with. And yeah, it's really. It's really valuable. Really interesting. I think a lot of people will get a lot of. Get a lot of value out of it.

[Chanel]

I'll go ahead and Venmo you now. Thank you for that nice testimonial.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Chanel]

Just kidding.

[Dylan]

We didn't even have Venmo in Canada, so it wouldn't work, so. Oh, yeah, Free.

[Chanel]

Awesome. I appreciate that. Um, yeah, so growthin reverse.com collabs. I just set that up so it's good.

[Dylan]

Just live on air.

[Chanel]

Live on air. Awesome. Well, this is fun. I'm excited to talk more about this and get some people on here who have done good collaborations and get their take.

[Dylan]

That'll be. That'll be fun. Looking forward to it.

[Chanel]

All right, we'll talk soon.