[00:00:24] Judy Douglass: Two people who've had the most impact on me. One would be Bill Bright because when I did the magazine, all of a sudden I was reporting to him and some other people as well because he didn't have time to really supervise and so those were sometimes tense times. Bill and I have one huge difference. Bill loves superlatives. Everybody was the greatest or the most talented or the best and that's the way he talked. I'm a journalist. Don't even believe superlatives are acceptable words, because nobody is the best or the greatest or anything.

And so Bill would write these flowery promoting things and I would get it and bring it back to what I thought was realism. And he would come back, and he'd say, no, you need to… And I would put a little bit more back, but not all of it, and we would go about five rounds before I didn't go back to him anymore.

I just decided we'd gotten it as far as I was willing to go and as much as he really needed. But that was challenging because we didn't always agree on things and yet he was always kind and gracious to me and positive and encouraging. But more than anything, he was trusting God.

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[00:01:53] Tommy Thomas: My guest today is Judy Douglass, a prominent figure within Cru, formerly known as Campus Crusade for Christ.

Throughout her career, she has held various roles within Cru and has become well known for her leadership and speaking. She served in positions such as staff member, mentor, and advocate for women in leadership within the organization. In addition to her work with Cru, Judy is a prolific writer, addressing topics related to faith, leadership, and personal growth.

These writings offer practical guidance, encouragement, and hope to individuals navigating various challenges in life, particularly in the context of family relationships and spiritual journeys. Judy, welcome to NextGen Nonprofit Leadership.

[00:02:38] Judy Douglass: Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm looking forward to it.

[00:02:41] Tommy Thomas: I've been looking forward to this. I was thinking back, I guess the first time I met you was probably ‘73 or ‘74. That was, before the turn of the century, huh?

[00:02:51] Judy Douglass: Definitely before the turn of the century. Yes, I was on staff then too.

[00:02:57] Tommy Thomas: I want to learn a little bit about your childhood. I know when I listen to a podcast and they start asking people those questions my ears perk up. So maybe take me back. What was it like growing up in your hometown and your family?

[00:03:11] Judy Douglass: It was like it is for most people who grow up in Texas.

[00:03:16] Tommy Thomas: Hot?

[00:03:16] Judy Douglass: Opinionated. My family helped settle the State of Texas on both my mother's and my father's side.

My mother's side, they came with Stephen F. Austin when he settled down near San Antonio. And on my father's side, it was after the war. And they moved to Dallas, which was just beginning to become a city. And so, I'm very Texan through and through, though I haven't lived there in a very long time, but my family is still there.

[00:03:49] Judy Douglass: I have three sisters, and we are still alive, and we get together every year or year and a half. When my mother died, we all agreed if we weren't intentional, we wouldn't see each other. So, we became intentional, and we do that. My father was a doctor. My mother had been a nurse, basically.

There was this expectation that you can do anything, you'll be supported and encouraged, and that was true.

[00:04:23] Tommy Thomas: So, what did you want to be when you grew up coming out of a medical family?

[00:04:33] Judy Douglass: I really don't like anything medical very much. From the time I was eight years old, I wanted to be a writer. I started a novel when I was eight and it was about my favorite topic, horses. And so, I loved horses, and I loved writing and they started to go together at a young age. I still have the manuscript of the chapter I wrote of my only novel ever.

[00:04:59] Tommy Thomas: What was high school like for you? Did that manifest itself in high school? Those two loves?

[00:05:05] Judy Douglass: They did. My high school was a very high-level school. And so, there were lots of smart kids. I didn't care for the social structure, but I loved the fact that I got a great education.

Probably my biggest opportunity came when I studied journalism for a year, and the journalism teacher saw real hope in me, I think. And so, she encouraged me to work on the school paper, and she did things like she took an article I'd written for the paper and sent it into the Texas High School Press Association writing contest, and it was a feature, and I won for the whole state of Texas.

[00:05:57] Judy Douglass: I didn't even know I was entered, but that was encouraging that I could do that, and that she thought I had enough potential that she would enter that for me without even telling me. So that was really a good thing. The horses, I had this, my father wasn't about to buy me a horse. He refused many times since I asked him many times, but he had a doctor, friend, with a horse and no one to ride it.

And so they got together and I got a horse and I rode that horse for a number of years. At first, just fun with my friends, but then he said, she's a saddle horse. She's really a good horse. So, he wanted her trained. So, we went over to the training state of stable where I learned to write English and do some jumping and learned all the more proper things than just enjoying riding a horse.

[00:06:53] Judy Douglass: And so that was maybe one of the happiest days of my life when my father says, I have a horse for you. It was a great experience, and I loved it and it paid off later.

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[00:07:05] Tommy Thomas: My next question was going to be, what are people always surprised to find out about you? But what I would imagine, I certainly didn't know the horse story. Is there anything else that people might be surprised to know that might know you or would call you a friend? What might they not know?

[00:07:21] Judy Douglass: Probably a couple of things that would surprise them because I'm very much a strong advocate for what I care about. They might not know that I'm really a soft-hearted pushover and I'm interested in making sure people thrive than even making sure things happen the way I want.

And the other thing that always seems to surprise them, not anyone in my family, but them, is I'm not a rule follower very well. I know rules are needed. And I know it is required, but basically when I see rules, I look at what's their objective and then it's how can I fulfill that objective, maybe keeping the rules and maybe not.

[00:08:09] Tommy Thomas: So, you've served a long time with Cru. Anytime I interview somebody that's been with an organization a long time, I ask them when you joined, did you think it would be a career?

[00:08:21] Judy Douglass: It didn't surprise me, but because my parents were not happy that I was joining Campus Crusade for Christ, I said, it's just a two-year commitment because that's all we were signing up for.

But in my mind, it probably was longer, but I sure didn't know it was going to be the 60 years that I've been part of the Cru staff.

[00:08:44] Tommy Thomas: Oh, so when I met you, I think you were managing one of our magazines. And I suppose you had a staff reporting to you. What do you remember about that first management experience?

[00:08:56] Judy Douglass: Oh, my goodness. I remember, one, that I was over my head, because what happened was, I went out there and I was planning to go on campus. When I decided to join the staff, I had to give up two important things. I was engaged to a young man I'd gone with all through college. And he wasn't interested at all in being a part of Cru.

And, I said, Lord, when are you going to tell him? And God said, if you marry him, you won't be able to do what I want you to do. And, okay, that was something I wanted. I told the Lord when I met him that I would choose your way. And so that, I choose your way, was my pattern through life.

[00:09:42] Judy Douglass: And, so I said, okay. But I was also giving up my dream to become a writer and to maybe eventually be a magazine editor. But when I got to the staff conference, Bill Bright called me into his office and he said, we have this magazine we started to use on the campuses, to help staff talk to students about topics.

We wondered if instead of going to one campus, you would come to headquarters and do this magazine for all the campuses. And I'm like, what? Yes. So, God gave me my dream back just right away. The other one came later.

[00:10:27] Tommy Thomas: Was that the Collegiate, I'm trying to think, was that the Collegiate Challenge?

[00:10:31] Judy Douglass: That was the Collegiate Challenge. And I did that for several years with the whole editorial staff and then their man named Robert was the designer and he was far more knowledgeable than I was. And what was interesting was that we and Campus Life Magazine from Youth for Christ at the same time, we're looking at most Christian magazines, which were tiny print little pictures.

Yeah. Just not even readable. And not certainly enticing. And I said, we got to do something. And Bob w...

Leadership and Faith – A Journey with Judy Douglass