Next in Media: A Tale of Two TV Upfronts
Host: Mike Shields
Guest: John Toronto, President of VaynerMedia and Global Chief Media Officer
Release Date: June 26, 2025
Location: Cannes
1. Introduction and Industry Overview
[00:48]
Mike Shields welcomes listeners to a special episode of Next in Media, recorded live in Cannes. He introduces John Toronto, the President of VaynerMedia and Global Chief Media Officer, marking his return as a guest from the previous year. The conversation is set against the backdrop of the rapidly evolving media, marketing, and advertising landscape, heavily influenced by technological advancements and data analytics.
2. The Diverging Fronts: Sports vs. Other Inventory
[01:13] - [01:20]
John Toronto discusses the contrasting dynamics within the TV upfronts:
“It’s almost like the tail of two upfronts. Like you have NFL, NBA, live sports.” [01:13]
Mike affirms the dominance of sports in advertising:
“Yeah, there were sports everywhere.” [01:18]
John elaborates that sports inventory, such as NFL and NBA ads, are moving quickly and are highly competitive, effectively creating their own robust marketplace. In contrast, other advertising segments are progressing at a slower pace, with many brands adopting a cautious approach in response to fluctuating inventory values and viewership trends.
3. The Position and Potential of YouTube in the Current Landscape
[02:00] - [04:53]
Mike Shields pivots the discussion to YouTube, questioning its integration within the broader advertising mix:
“Are they players? Are they still kind of getting in that siloed thing?” [02:34]
John responds by highlighting the complexity and underutilization of YouTube:
“A lot of folks don’t even realize that’s the number one app on TV.” [02:53]
“It’s underutilized from a creative standpoint, it’s underutilized from a targeting standpoint.” [02:56]
He points out the confusion brands face in categorizing YouTube’s budget allocation, whether it belongs to TV linear, CTV OTT, or social media budgets. This ambiguity hampers effective investment strategies.
Mike inquires about the potential for YouTube to capture more advertising dollars, especially with its vast inventory and creator ecosystem. John acknowledges YouTube’s strengths but emphasizes the need for better integration with lower funnel strategies to drive tangible business outcomes:
“YouTube really needs to figure out how it connects to lower funnel and drives business outcomes.” [04:42]
Despite its strengths, YouTube’s ad revenue remains only two-thirds the size of Instagram’s, indicating room for growth and optimization.
4. Navigating the Creator Economy
[05:05] - [07:03]
The conversation shifts to the creator economy, with Mike asking about the challenges and advancements in working with creators:
“Is that getting easier?” [05:05]
John affirms the democratization of access to creators through various tech platforms and marketplaces provided by Google, TikTok, and Meta:
“Access to creators is being democratized.” [05:37]
However, he underscores the importance of cultural strategy in identifying emerging talent:
“The cultural strategy piece of it all is the secret source of creators.” [05:38]
Mike brings up high-profile creators like Mr. Beast, questioning their viability as media companies and the feasibility of brands investing heavily in them. John advises caution, recommending brands to initially engage in spot activations before committing to significant investments:
“You have to be certain that’s going to drive the business.” [06:20]
He advocates for an “always on” approach, continuously sourcing and testing new talent rather than relying solely on top-tier influencers.
5. Platform Stability and Contingency Planning
[07:03] - [08:46]
Mike addresses concerns surrounding TikTok and the potential for platform bans, probing the industry's preparedness. John reveals that nearly all their clients have contingency plans in place:
“Almost 100% of our brands have some level of contingency plan just in case but at the same time 100% of them are planning that's going to be business as usual.” [07:18]
He notes the significant business outcomes from platforms like TikTok, especially with the rise of social commerce and TikTok Shops:
“Social commerce taking off. TikTok shops for it all taking off.” [07:38]
Mike further inquires about the migration of creators to platforms like Amazon or Netflix. John explains that while some creators secure larger content deals or develop their own streaming channels, the vast number of new fast channels makes it challenging to maintain transparency in measurement and viewership. He predicts a consolidation in the creator marketplace:
“We’re just going to see much, much fewer of them over the next couple years.” [08:22]
6. The Rise of Live Shopping and Social Commerce
[08:59] - [10:51]
The discussion turns to live shopping and social commerce, areas John identifies as major growth bets for the agency:
“Live shopping and social commerce is one of the three biggest bets we're going to make.” [09:14]
He highlights platforms like Whatnot and TikTok Shops as significant drivers of commercial success:
“TikTok shops that we're building for clients are driving upwards of $10, $20 million of GMV a year.” [09:14]
John emphasizes that live shopping is not limited to Asia but is gaining traction globally. The integration of commerce units within social feeds not only facilitates direct sales but also enhances branding through increased visibility:
“It’s far, far larger than just like social commerce play. It’s almost like a full funnel by itself.” [10:24]
Mike muses on the future role of agencies in managing live shopping initiatives, while John anticipates that automated solutions may emerge in a few years, contingent on user behavior and adoption rates:
“The agent and dancing shopping is probably a couple years away to really.” [10:03]
7. Conclusion and Future Outlook
[10:51] - [10:55]
Mike Shields wraps up the conversation, expressing enthusiasm for upcoming developments:
“Looking forward to see what happens over the next six months or so.” [10:51]
John Toronto acknowledges the insights shared, concluding the episode on a note of mutual appreciation:
“Thanks so much, man.” [10:55]
Key Takeaways
- Contrast in Upfront Dynamics: Sports advertising remains highly competitive and fast-moving, creating a distinct marketplace compared to slower-moving other segments.
- YouTube’s Potential: Despite its vast inventory and unique position, YouTube is underutilized creatively and strategically, presenting opportunities for brands to better integrate it into their ad budgets.
- Creator Economy Evolution: Access to creators has democratized, but strategic cultural alignment and an “always on” approach are crucial for effective influencer marketing.
- Platform Stability: While contingency plans for platform bans (e.g., TikTok) are common, the focus remains on leveraging current platforms for business continuity.
- Growth of Social Commerce: Live shopping and platforms like TikTok Shops are emerging as significant revenue streams, with substantial commercial outcomes and branding potential.
This episode of Next in Media provides a comprehensive analysis of the current state and future directions of the media, marketing, and advertising industries, highlighting the pivotal roles of sports advertising, YouTube, the creator economy, platform stability, and social commerce.