C (3:01)

Sounds like a good sign.

A (3:02)

Yeah. From a 0 subscriber channel was an exciting start and probably the most fun. We've launched what we call Dude, Perfect Interns, which is literally a couple of guys who were our interns and are now part of our social media team are driving a new channel for us that speaks to a different audience and in a very different language. They've added a couple hundred thousand followers, followers on Instagram in a couple of months as they've experimented. So we've grown quite a bit and are doing a lot of fun stuff on the content side.

C (3:28)

I want to come back to that, actually. We saw you guys perform live at the US Open a couple years ago, and I think you had, like, Venus Williams doing trick shots for the guys was really fun. So you led me to this next question, because when you talk to so many YouTube centric businesses, they're often advertising first and foremost. You're diversified already. How much of your business is trying to build a media business versus events versus merchandising? All the above. What does that look like?

A (3:53)

We really define the business into three buckets. Content, products and experiences. Content is obviously the lifeblood of the business. That is our YouTube, but also our social media and all of the various channels and platforms we have across each of those. It's the heartbeat of the business, both financially and emotionally, and something we're continuing to invest quite a bit in with bigger videos, bigger concepts, more channels, more talent. But a lot of the growth, as you said, is coming from other areas of the business as well in terms of our products. And that's everything from board games, our first novel coming out in early May, which we're really excited about.

C (4:35)

Don't expect it. That's Kind of fun.

A (4:36)

Yeah. It's a series about sports mysteries aimed at 8 to 12 year olds, which when I was a 8 to 12 year old, I love Matt Christopher books about the power of sports. And so I think there's something really great there about sports that's meaningful to kids. And so we wanted something that would suit that audience because a big chunk. I don't know how old your kids are, but a big chunk of our audience is in that kind of 8 to 14 range and middle grade. And so developed a book series that speaks specifically to that audience.

C (5:06)

Yeah, that audience is like harder and harder to get them to read real stuff. So that is the smart mover.

A (5:11)

Definitely the overarching mantra we use across our business, across content, products and experiences is it we want to inspire play and that it's not merely about having a kid or a family or a teenager or an adult, any age, sit down and just watch our content. Ideally, we are inspiring them to go do something afterward. And nothing makes us prouder than when a parent comes up to us and says, hey, my boy or girl watched one of your videos. Then they spent an hour out in the driveway trying to recreate it. And we love that spark that we think our content uniquely generates. And we think that's not just a content initiative, that our products, a book can do that too. Right. Whether that's play imagination or play physical, it can really change the way a kid approaches what they're doing. And so that's a big piece of our product strategy in the same way that we've developed a lot of sporting goods that do the same thing and then experiences. Right. Right now our tour is our primary experience, which is a little bit more of a lean back experience, but I think still is that communal, imaginative, highly playful experience. You saw a version of it at the US Open where we do that Arthur Ash Kids Day every year at Arthur Ash Stadium in front of 20,000 fans, which is just an unbelievable experience. We're developing a whole new line of experiences though, where kids actually get to go do stuff and really take some of the magic they've seen in videos or in tour shows and get to throw the ball themselves or flip the box all themselves. And we've tested this last year and are testing it again this year alongside our tour. And we think there's just been an amazing reaction from our audience. And so we're really excited to bring that to life in new ways over the coming months.

C (6:56)

Interesting. Circling back to the ad part of your business here, you're talking about you deliver pretty big numbers. You're launching new channels that are taken off pretty quickly. I guess. A couple of questions. How much do you want to be participants in these like TV upfront conversations? You're seeing some of the bigger YouTube players feeling like they're legitimately can talk there and then how you balance like kids, advertisers, family advertisers. What's your core like talking about those pieces, if you would.

A (7:21)

Yeah. So we're our guys will be a brand cast. YouTube's big up front in a couple of weeks which we're really excited about.

C (7:27)

I hope you were allowed to talk about that because you're in trouble here.

A (7:30)

No, it. They've already released. I won't. I can't say, I can't divulge any other details or they will let me know. But the fact that we'll be there we can talk about.

B (7:38)

Okay, cool.

A (7:38)

We're really excited for that. YouTube is the biggest platform, the biggest streamer on TV right now. And so it's only natural for YouTube to have an upfront. More than half our content is consumed on tv. It's a natural conversation for us to have. And I think what you've seen when you ask about how it ties like our sponsorship business, our partnerships business looks more and more like a media business, not a sort of creator business. Day by day we have long term deep relationships with a tier partners, whether that's BodyArmor, who's our official hydration partner and has been for a couple of years and will be for a few more years and if not longer, we have deep meaningful relationships with top brands that spend with the NHL and the NBA and the NFL and spend on FIFA and the World Cup. Brands that want, that are the same brands that want to work with us, we take great pride in that. But it's also because of the audience we can reach and how. You mentioned it's hard to get 8 to 14 year olds to read. It's hard to get families to do anything. As the media ecosystem is fragmented, there is less and less 4 quadrant television. When I was a kid, we all used to gather around and watch shows together or go to the movies together. Now everyone is on their phone doing things individually and so reaching the family unit has become increasingly challenging. We are unique in that we were able to do that 80% of our consumption by kids, they're doing it with the parent and there are not a lot of media properties where that's true, where a brand can come to us and if they want, if they need to reach a decision maker and a parent but also convince the kid that the thing is cool. We can speak to both those audiences very naturally.

C (9:16)

When you say you become more of a media business than a creator business, is it mostly about the long term ness of your deals or is it like less? I'm going to do a one off video for a brand and then incorporate them into everything I do. What's the difference in your mind?

A (9:31)

Yeah, I think it's a couple of things. One is, and I don't mean to denigrate any other businesses, just that when I think a lot of the creator business tends to be more direct response or one off or short term. I think what the value we provide is brand association and affiliation. Right. People view us and body armor as one and the same and that we add value to their brand. They add value to air brand and that's how the best partnerships work. That when we launch our LTO, we've done two LTOs and we have a third upcoming with body armor in stores. We shift share from Gatorade to body armor.

C (10:08)

Right. You are affecting their business.

A (10:10)

Our audience will not just watch it, they will get off the couch and go buy it. Yes, that's because we're promoting the product, but that's also because they love the brand and because we authentically consume the brand all the time and that's a real partnership. When we talk to brands, we look more like a sports sponsorship or a media opportunity than hey, here's a creator thing where you know, on this day we need you to post this message and we'll pay you X per post. Like that's not really the business we're in.

C (10:40)

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B (10:42)

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C (11:21)

does that mean you're seeing YouTube get a lot more involved in playing matchmaker or trying to facilitate growth in the creator spending space?

B (11:30)

Do you need Them less than maybe,

C (11:32)

I don't know, a micro influencer, a mid level company or is it good

B (11:35)

that they're there or are you beyond that?

A (11:36)

We love it because I think I work really closely with the folks there. It's a real one plus one equals three situation. Xfinity approached us and YouTube about a joint relationship Comcast Xfinity is a big partner of YouTube's obviously they approached us about co creating a new ad spot and so we created an ad spot with them where we wrote a script, we produced, we filmed our talent was the talent. We edited, produced, distributed it. They bought then from YouTube units within our content. They sponsored the content as well and they had that ad to then run across their media portfolio across NBC across their locals were using our ad to promote Xfinity and the ability to watch sports with Xfinity. Philip Schindler is the chief business officer of Google in their quarterly earnings called it the best performing ad on the platform that it drove the biggest lift of any ad.

C (12:34)

That's a rare shot you don't get. He hasn't called that many companies.

A (12:37)

No, we. I was surprised. I was humbled and surprised to hear that in their first hundred billion dollar quarter to be cited by their chief business officer. But I think it speaks to when the platform and the content work together it creates real growth opportunities for our partners. And so it's a great example of where we work really closely with YouTube to be valuable for our partners.

C (13:00)

All that being said, how much do you guys, you know, you see different, different creators or different experiences. Do you need to be everywhere else? Do you need to be on TikTok and Instagram? I believe you have your own CTV app or you've experimented there like you need to be everywhere else.

A (13:14)

I think we do partially because audiences are different. I was just looking at the data. Our TikTok audience and our Instagram audience have different gender dynamics and age and geographic Dynamics than our YouTube audience does. And the content is pretty different. I think people often think of us as a YouTube channel. We have 60 million followers across social. If you'd stripped away our YouTube and just looked at our social, we'd be one of the biggest.

C (13:38)

That's still a pretty good company influencers

A (13:40)

in sports social, right? Just with those 60 million. The fact that we have as many TikTok followers as the NBA is an incredibly powerful tool both for our brand partners but also just for our organic reach from a business perspective. It allows us to speak to a different audience and also reaches a new audience. We Get a little bit more top of the funnel. Our voice on Social is definitely a little bit more Gen Z and teenage and Meme, for lack of a better word, partially because of the platforms and partially because that's natural in a vertical short form. And YouTube shorts and YouTube just perform differently. And so we really program each of those quite differently based on audience and platform dynamics.

C (14:21)

I think you maybe started to answer this already, but I was going to ask you.

A (14:23)

What?

C (14:24)

How much has YouTube being such a player on television and the longer sessions you see there, has it changed your approach? Does every concept have to be cut five different ways or is it. Are you programming very differently there on

A (14:35)

our main channel, YouTube, we are. And I think you see our last video was 41 minutes long, which I joke with the guys, like water Bottle Flip 2, which is at 700 million views and is the biggest dude perfect video of all time. I think it's 4 minutes and 30 seconds long.

C (14:50)

Right. Things have changed.

A (14:52)

Things have changed quite a bit over the last 10 years. And we really solve for how much consumption do we get. Our overarching metric is what is watch time, what is retention? Because that means we're making good, high quality content that people love. And so when content is watched on screen, people stay longer and the bar is higher. And so you see us, we've been producing longer content, more premium content. Our variety show, which we're about to release our 50th episode on, is very much a TV asset that could slide in on network television. Like it is part of our programming strategy that premium, longer, more TV like content is what the audience is demanding right now. And we are happy to oblige.

C (15:35)

You mentioned the interns concept and it's funny because you think of all creators as being like young guys. The dudes have been around for a while. Presumably they can't do this forever. I don't know, maybe they can. But how important is it for you to build out the roster to make sure that you're not married to the originals and having a. Like a being a franchise?

A (15:53)

They're younger than I am, so I can't question their age or their athleticism. But it's something we think about and talk about a lot, which isn't necessarily concern about their longevity, but it's really more just a concern about bandwidth and scale.

C (16:07)

Sure, there is a lot of for

A (16:09)

us to do more. And we launched our outdoors channel. The guys, our founders, have been somewhat involved in it, but we hired two new talents to lead that. Two brothers, Jared and Josh Pettit who've done an amazing job. They are leading the way on our outdoors channel. They are very much part of the dude perfect family that provides us more bandwidth and more scale to go camp for a few days or do a fishing trip or whatever is required. That isn't just a burden on our guys time given the limited time that we have. So I think you'll see us continue to develop new talent to help us broaden and scale. The other thing I'd say is like the real unlock is about developing formats and IP and the more of that that we can own, the more it unlocks our business. And that's everything from Squad games which I mentioned, which is our tour format started as a video format, now it's an experiential format. All sports golf, which is a format that we've had for years, continue to invest and develop that over time. Our variety show like that's a format that will live on. And so continuing to own that IP is really what growth and longevity of the business is about.

C (17:20)

All right, explain to people what you're building in Austin.

B (17:23)

How would.

C (17:24)

What would you characterize it and do I need to go there?

A (17:26)

There have been some conflicting reports. We are not building a theme park at the moment. We were working with a group called Dig World who is building a construction. A set of construction parks that my 4 year old is very excited to go to. There will be a dude perfect zone in some of those parks. We also are working on our own experiential concepts. Our nomenclature for it is Trickshot town which is that we want to build a location where a kid who loves our videos and loves to watch the world's highest basketball shot can go and have some, some facsimile of that experience that kids can get out and play and be active and do something in a way that lines up with everything our guys have done for 17 years. And so that was the vision of the theme park that the guys have talked about for a few years. I think that's still the north star of the approach. But we believe that there's a couple of steps on that journey. And so first major step will be this family entertainment concept that we're continuing to invest in build out over the next several months. But that's something that more excited to formally announce and have news on soon.

C (18:30)

So we're a little ways away from Euro Dude Perfect.

A (18:32)

Yes. Yeah.

C (18:34)

Someday. What. You can answer this a bunch of different ways. What's missing in your life? I. I think of media things like oh, do you wish there was better measurement, better data. Do the ad people want easier ways to target people or what would be what's on your wish list as a media builder?

A (18:49)

Yeah, it's a great question. I think measurement is always one because I truly believe the quality of our audience connection and reach is unparalleled. Like I said, I think we swim in the same swimming pools as professional sports and you look at the dollars that professional sports are able to get,

C (19:07)

you don't show up in the same Nielsen ranking each week or whatever the equivalent would be.

A (19:10)

And we say like we know what college game day averages 2 million viewers a week and one video we post on a Saturday is going to get 10 million unique viewers. Like those are not apples to apples. But being able to say here's the impact we've, here are the minutes watched, here's what it looks like, here is how we move people to go do a thing. We have seen it in our data, we have seen it in our reaction, we've seen it in how brands work with us that we are having outsized impact measurement that lived up to that or.

C (19:40)

Right. It's not the same as showing that you someone bought something immediately. But there is a real attribution thing there that if someone can.

A (19:48)

It's a little bit pie in the sky but I think there are a number of tools working on things like that that I think will be really beneficial. I will say like a lot of the data that YouTube in particular provides is amazing and I spend a lot of time in YouTube studio obsessing over our retention graphs and our audience and our engagement and I'm a data driven person probably to a fault and it absorbs a lot of my time I guess.

C (20:11)

Last thing, do you want to give us your finals pick here? Is that too dangerous for you giving your own NBA life?

A (20:16)

Well, I've, I always at the NBA said I, I would root for the officials cause I wasn't allowed to have a bias. But I, I think it pains me to say it but I think my arch enemy Celtics are going to come out of the east with Jason Tatum back. They look really good and it's. My heart is pulling for the Spurs. I would love a little Texan representation and Victor is a special individual but it's hard to pick against the Thunder. If I had to, if I had to guess, I would say Thunder.

C (20:42)

He's going to win. If not now, Victor's going to win.

A (20:44)

He's got plenty of time. He will get his turn. But the Thunder are a machine and so I'm excited to watch.

C (20:51)

Yeah, that's a pretty good bat. Andrew, awesome conversation. Thanks so much for your time and let's chat down the road here.

A (20:56)

Sounds great. Thanks so much for having me.

B (20:58)

Big thanks to my guest this week, Dude Perfect's Andrew Yaffe and my partners in View Planner. If you like this week's episode, please take a moment to rate and leave a review. We have lots more to bring you, so please hit that subscriber button and we'll see you next time for more on what's Next in Media. Thanks for listening.