How the New York Times Is Evolving Advertising with Tusar Barik

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Next in Media

Episode: How the New York Times Is Evolving Advertising with Tusar Barik
Host: Mike Shields
Guest: Tusar Barik, SVP of Marketing, New York Times
Release Date: December 9, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Mike Shields interviews Tusar Barik, who is nearly a year into his role as SVP of Marketing at The New York Times. The conversation explores how the Times is redefining its advertising approach amidst rapid changes in media and technology. Topics include NYT’s diversified portfolio (news, games, audio, video, The Athletic, Wirecutter), intentional use of AI, evolving advertising solutions, measurement strategies, programmatic vs direct ad sales, the Times’s expansion into video, and the enduring centrality of quality journalism.

Barik offers a candid look at how NYT’s business and audience have evolved, why advertising remains essential, and how the company aims to offer marketers unique, high-value engagement at scale.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Evolution of the New York Times (00:45–05:02)

• Core Mission ("the Sun"):
  Barik emphasizes the unchanging core of NYT: “At its core, the New York Times has not changed. At the core of what we are, everything we are is the news. … The sun, if you will, is the news. And that's what gives us our editorial independence that drives our mission of seeking the truth and help understand it.” (Tusar Barik, 00:45)
• Business Diversification:
  NYT is now as much a “gaming and podcast company” as a news publication (01:30). Subscriptions, games, cooking, The Athletic, and Wirecutter all play major roles.
• Direct Audience Relationships:
  A deliberate, data-driven strategy has built a base of 12M+ subscribers and over 150M registered users, with weekly reach of 50–100M, especially growing among Gen Z, Midwest, South, and international audiences (05:02–07:07).

2. Advertising’s Role & Value (04:13–08:56)

• Performance & Growth:
  Advertising remains “truly essential to the New York Times,” with 20% digital ad growth and 12% total ad growth, “even as print is in secular decline.”
• Unique Audience:
  “What makes us unique … is our audience. Right. And we have a very unique audience that marketers want to be able to engage with and touch.” (Tusar Barik, 07:58)
• Consumer Business Drives Ads:
  A strong consumer business precedes advertising success; “Advertising quickly follows that” (08:37).

3. AI, Data, and Brand Match (08:56–11:33)

• AI Strategy:
  “AI is an important part of our strategy … we are intentional about how we utilize AI to help both us internally, our readers, consumers, along with our advertising partners.” (Tusar Barik, 09:26)
• Brand Match:
  NYT’s generative AI tool ingests RFPs from advertisers, recommending optimal NYT content on the fly—resulting in “30%+ click-through rates” and “brand lift in the 30% range.” (09:16–10:59)
• Human Oversight:
  While exploring creative AI, NYT maintains that “our consumer and that direct relationship is most important … we hold that as the sacred cow.” (11:07)

4. Podcasting & Audio/Video Expansion (11:33–16:13)

• The Daily’s Impact:
  “I think [The Daily] might be like the most downloaded podcast that’s existed ... The following they have...” (Tusar Barik, 12:05)
• Emotional Power:
  Memorable moment: Barik relays a story of The Daily being a source of comfort during a family health crisis, highlighting the personal connection audiences feel for NYT audio.

  “Every morning she would listen to the Daily while there. And so that was the comforting voice that she heard every day. And so it’s just like this amazing relationship that exists.” (Tusar Barik, 12:52)

• Audio to Video Shows:
  NYT has embraced “shows” with both audio and video options (The Daily, Ezra Klein, The Athletic’s “Free Lunch”). They now produce over 75 hours of professional video monthly and see 20M+ unique monthly audio listeners with 70M downloads (13:51–16:13).

5. Advertiser Solutions & Measurement (16:13–20:03)

• Omnichannel Packaging:
  NYT has shifted to “solutions mindset” for advertisers. “If you want to look at it, just from audio or just from video. Sure, we can help you with that. But if you want to think about it holistically...” (16:33)
• Measurement Sophistication:
  Led by Barik’s team, NYT offers a measurement playbook for all funnel stages: top (brand studies), mid (consideration, attention), lower (shopping units like Wirecutter). “We’re trying to make sure that we are able to measure across the board to … drive the outcomes.” (18:01–20:03)

6. Newsletters & Creator-Led Journalism (21:15–23:46)

• Portfolio Approach over Individual Stars:
  While NYT boasts top talent, they “sell it as the entire portfolio.” Newsletters act as “entry points”—morning briefings, DealBook for business (6M+ subs in The Athletic alone), cooking, sports, etc.
• Brand Strength:
  “What the New York Times provides is … the amount of editors we have, the amount of researchers we have … the full ability to be able to know one person can do that.” (Tusar Barik, 21:35)

7. Gaming as a Growth/Diversification Channel (23:46–27:53)

• Not Just Wordle:
  Games have been in NYT’s DNA since the 1940s (crosswords introduced during WWII as reprieve). Wordle’s acquisition and new games like “Pips” have expanded reach.
• Engagement Scale:
  “Over 2,000 people per minute are sharing their world score.” (25:36)
• Advertising in Games:
  Expanding ad opps within games, especially video-forward pre-roll, has generated “21% lift in brand awareness, 30% lift in brand consideration” for portfolio campaigns (27:26).

8. Programmatic vs Direct/Private Marketplace (27:53–30:27)

• Expanding Programmatic with Intention:
  Significant investments in programmatic as a means to enable less friction for marketers—not just about open auction inventory.
  “We look at programmatic primarily as a way to make sure marketers are able to transact with us how they want to but still maintain the quality of who we are and prestige of what we have.” (29:55)
• Ad Experience Quality:
  NYT is judicious—ads are “not suspicious” or overwhelming, with intentional placement and clear labeling.

9. Video-First Strategy & Watch Tab (30:27–34:08)

• Video as “Love Language of the Internet”:
  “Our strategy is video is a core part of our strategy and we've significantly spent a large amount of resourcing to make sure that we are able to do that again, it goes back to this idea of evolving with consumer needs...” (30:53)
• New Watch Tab:
  “We've launched the Watch tab last month ... at the bottom it's swipeable stack of videos ... it's not brand rowdy ... it's shorter form for the Times, but it's not short form video ... some of these videos go a minute and a half. It's again about going in depth and it's across our entire portfolio.” (32:45–33:19)
• Video Ad Opportunities:
  A beta for video ad units in Watch is launching soon, with high viewability and engagement. “The beta is opening up now and early next year you’ll start to see a little bit of video advertising opportunity that will exist within the Watch as well.” (33:19)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “At its core, the New York Times does not change. … The sun … is the news. That’s what gives us our editorial independence.”
  (Tusar Barik, 00:45)
• “Advertising is truly essential to the New York Times … on top of subscriptions, it’s our core.”
  (05:02)
• “AI is an important part of our strategy … we are intentional about how we utilize AI.”
  (09:23)
• “The Daily … might be like the most downloaded podcast that's existed. … The following they have”
  (12:05)
• (On emotional connection) “Michael Barbaro’s voice has a special place in my family’s heart … every morning she would listen to The Daily while at the hospital.”
  (12:52)
• “Over 2,000 people per minute are sharing their Wordle score.”
  (25:36)
• “We want to make sure that we are … not trying to make it suspicious. … You should know you see an ad when you see an ad.”
  (29:55)
• “Video is a core part of our strategy … [a friend] calls it the love language of the internet.”
  (30:53)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:45 – Intro: NYT’s Core Mission & Solar System Analogy
• 02:21 – Barik’s Role & Team Structure
• 04:13 – The Evolution of NYT’s Portfolio
• 05:02 – Advertising’s Essential Role
• 07:07 – Audience Growth (Gen Z, Midwest, International)
• 08:56 – AI, Brand Match, and Data Strategy
• 11:33 – The Daily & NYT’s Emotional Audience Connection
• 13:51 – Expansion into Audio/Video Shows & Metrics
• 16:33 – Solutions-Based Packaging for Advertisers
• 18:01 – Measurement Playbook Across Funnel
• 21:35 – How NYT Sells Its Creator-Led Journalism
• 23:46 – NYT Games, Wordle, & Audience Expansion
• 25:36 – Unique Scale: Wordle Sharing Statistic
• 27:26 – Ad Opportunities in Games
• 27:53 – Programmatic vs Direct Approaches
• 30:53 – Video Strategy, Watch Tab, & Future Ad Products
• 34:08 – Episode Close

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Tone and Language

The conversation is candid and informed, balancing optimism for NYT’s innovation with grounded awareness of industry shifts. Barik speaks warmly of NYT’s heritage and audience loyalty, but with a keen eye for data, performance, and advertiser needs. There is a tone of intentionality—NYT’s adaptations are framed as thoughtful, not reactionary.

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Summary Takeaway

The New York Times is not simply surviving “upheaval” in media and advertising—it is thriving by staying true to its journalistic core while expanding into new portfolios and platforms. Advertising at NYT is undergoing its own evolution, leveraging AI, podcasts, video, and games to offer scalable, measured, and high-value experiences for both readers and marketers. Direct relationships, premium experiences, and data-driven insights are guiding this 175-year-old brand into the future of advertising.

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Transcript

[Mike Shields]

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[Tusar Barak]

I will say, at its core, the New York Times has not changed. At the core of what we are, everything we are is the news. Right? The New York Times, it was founded around that and that is the core. We call it internally our solar system. The sun, if you will, is the news. And that's what gives us our editorial independence that drives our mission of seeking the truth and help understand it. She was going to the hospital every morning for months to go see her dad and stay with him. And every morning she would listen to the Daily while there. And so that was the comforting voice that she heard every day. And so it's just like this amazing relationship that exists, right with everything going on. World War II, people really needed a way to get through what was going on in the world and needed some sort of reprieve. And so to the crosswords was a way for them to do it, which, yeah, it doesn't sound too different than thinking about the world.

[Mike Shields]

This week on Next Media, I chatted with T. Barck, who is one year into his role as SVP of Marketing at the New York Times. We talked about how things have evolved at the Times, which is as much a gaming and podcast company as is a news publication these days. So we got into how that puts the Times in different ad categories, including lots more web, video and short form social content. We also talked about the state of news and publishing, AI search, and what's next for the year ahead. Let's get started. Hi everybody. Welcome to NEXT to Media. I'm Mike Shields. My guest this week is Tusar Barak. He's the SVP of Marketing at the New York Times.

[Tusar Barak]

Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

[Mike Shields]

Psyched to talk to you because you're an interesting moment in your career and as is the company in a, in a, you know, in a business that is going through crazy change. So let's just start from like talk to me about your role and I, I believe it's, you know, you're roughly a year into this. What was the mission and what did you learn over the past year or so?

[Tusar Barak]

Yeah, no, it's been great. Yeah, I've just passed 11 months so I'm going to round up to a year, if you will. I started in January and it's been a fantastic time to be at the New York Times. It has been a very busy year for sure, but it's been great to be here. I joined back in January really to lead a couple different teams. So my role and its total didn't actually exist fully before. And so what I do at the New York Times is I'm with the New York Times Advertising and I lead marketing across our, our portfolio for New York Times Advertising. So what that means is I have a number of different teams under me. I would say like just to give you a quick level set and describe what it is, is it starts at its core with our measurement data, audience insights, audience strategy team, really understanding the data of, because I'm a very data driven person of what we are, who we are, how we're resonating with our audience, being able to take that and then feed that information to our product marketing team which is also under me. So I have two different product marketing teams under me is focused on our ad products. So the different types of advertising units targeting that you see, so they take that information to be able to work with our product teams to build out and decide what we should build out for our customers. I also have what's called editorial advertising, product marketing. So working with our newsroom to help build out unique opportunities for marketers and advertisers to be able to be able to get their message and resonate alongside the different, different types of content that we have. And then I have what I would call your, you know, more traditional type teams which is like, you know, comms, pr.

Social content and events as well. And all that's like a flywheel where we're really able to then be able to use that as a megaphone to get, get, get out there, what we have and be able to then take in more data to understand what's working, what's not, what's resonating, what's not. And then, you know, feed the loop, if you will.

[Mike Shields]

Yeah. First of all, that's a lot there.

But I think it's interesting because I think the narrative recently has been, well, I got, you know, the Times isn't the times that we once knew anymore. Right? Like, you're in, you're, you're. Over the last decade or so, it's become much more of a, you know, there was. The paid subscriptions aren't going to work to. It's a huge core part of the business. And now you're in games, you're in cooking, you got the athletic, all these pieces. So I think that people wonder, well, okay, is advertising going to play the same role as it once did in the old days? Like, does it matter? I know that recent earnings were very positive on that front because people wonder about publishing in general.

[Tusar Barak]

But.

[Mike Shields]

So that's a long way of asking what is, what is. What's advertising's role right now for you?

[Tusar Barak]

Yeah, no, I mean, the reason I came to the New York Times is all that you described, right. The New York Times has evolved so much, actually. Interesting. Next year we're going to be 175 years old. So it's pretty amazing to be at this brand that's got such a history, right, with who they are. And I will say, at its core, the New York Times does not change. At the core of what we are, everything we are is the news. Right? The New York Times, it was founded around that. And that is the core, we call it internally our solar system, the sun, if you will, is the news. And that's what gives us our editorial independence that drives our mission of seeking the truth and helping people understand it. So that is at the core of who the New York Times is. But we, what our leadership team and the entire team has done is really evolved with, for lack of a better term, and no pun intended, with the Times, if you will. Right. Being able to make sure we mean more to more people at any given moment. So whether that be you reading the news, understanding what's going on in the world, hearing from some of our opinion editors, or playing a game, figuring out what to cook for your family, going deeper with the athletic or figuring out what to buy, Christmas season is coming soon, so get ready and use Wirecutter to be able to figure out what the recommendations are. Right? So we touch people's lives in such a unique way. And that's why I came. And probably the biggest takeaway I'd say from even just being here this past year is the scale at which we have. Right. We have, as you mentioned, our earnings report. We have over 12 million subscribers. And yes, subscriptions are a core part of our business. We have made a very intentional focus about making sure that we have a direct relationship with our, with our readers, with our engagers, and making sure that we are building that relationship and being a value to them and meaning more to them. But on top of that, what I think people don't really realize, especially from the marketing and advertising world, which is what I'm here to really help get out to the world, is we have over 150 million registered users, 50 to 100 million people on a weekly basis come to one or more of our properties. And we are seeing actually the highest growth in audience from Gen Z adults along with the Midwest and south in the U.S.

Exactly right. Surprising. And international as well. Right. In terms of how we think about the international core markets and where we have that opportunity. And so what we are really excited about is that ability to be able to have the portfolio across all those different portfolio brands I mentioned and being able to get it out there and help marketers make their ability to meet with that audience. So advertising is truly essential to the New York Times. How we've seen it is as you mentioned, in our earnings, we saw over 20% digital year over year growth, 12% total advertising growth, which includes print, which frankly is in secular decline as we all know. It's still important, but it's just like.

[Mike Shields]

Supposedly the open web is in decline. We're all doomed here. And that. So that was very positive in terms.

[Tusar Barak]

Of what's going on. Yeah. And what's amazing, I think from my perspective is if you look at all the earnings that came out in the past couple of weeks, I mentioned those numbers around our audience. What makes us unique and what makes any advertising platform, frankly unique is our audience. Right. And we have a very unique audience that marketers want to be able to engage with and touch. And if you look at all the other earnings that came out, we are on par and sometimes beat some of your traditional, if you will, tech platforms. And so, you know, it's because of the fact that we have the direct relationships, because we've evolved with the Times. It all just makes our ad business stronger. And, and what we have seen internally at the Times is actually a strong consumer business. Advertising quickly follows that, that follows that. So we see this through line of making sure we have a strong business that's for our subscribers, for our registered users. That then flows into advertising which helps marketers connect with a truly engaged audience that's at scale, that's Pretty hard to replicate anywhere else.

[Mike Shields]

I want to ask you about. Of course, we got to talk about AI and there's a million different angles there when it comes to advertising, typically, I mean, it's still really early, but that is seen to be the strength of the platform than the domain of the tech companies. Right. And what. Talk to me about what you're doing there on the advertising front, specifically.

[Tusar Barak]

Brand Match, for sure. Yeah, definitely. And I would say it wouldn't be a podcast in 2025 if we didn't talk about AI. Right, of course.

[Mike Shields]

No, I won't be able to prompt you.

[Tusar Barak]

Exactly. No. AI is an important part of our strategy as it is with, I'm sure every, every company out there, from our perspective, I would start first. As the New York Times as a whole, it's very important we are intentional about how we utilize AI to help both us internally, our readers, consumers, along with our advertising partners. And so the way we use AI is very intentional. In terms of what you described, Brand Match, that's our generative AI product. Fundamentally what that does is as a marketer, you always have a brief, you have an RFP that you're sending out to your partners to help attract the right audience. What we do is we take that, we ingest it into our generative AI platform, Brand Match, and then we're able to come out with a recommendation and on the fly as content is produced, figure out which content will produce the best results for what their results are. And what we've frankly seen is performance across all the different campaigns that we've run it on has performed significantly better. Whether it be 30% plus click through rates on, on campaigns, or even if we think about brand lift, we've also seen brand lift happen in the 30% range as well. So it's, it's really been useful to be able to make sure we are connecting the right audience with the right marketing message, because ultimately that's what's most important.

[Mike Shields]

So is that I got to compare everything to the Wall Gardens, which for better or worse, like, you can either crank out there, they have products where you can crank out 3,000 variations of an ad, or they have the products that help you find the right audience in an automated fashion. Is it closer to one or both? Or is the ambition to kind of do all those things?

[Tusar Barak]

For right now, it is based primarily on the right audience. And what it does is because we're producing so much content at any given.

[Mike Shields]

Time, it changes over time with them.

[Tusar Barak]

Yeah. And so it's on the fly Being able to understand which content will perform best, you know, on the creative side, we're definitely looking at AI. What I will say is we have to be very clear with our. Because our consumer and that direct relationship is most important. And we are. We hold that as the sacred cow. Right. So we want to make sure that anything we do on that front is still making sure we're. We're utilizing the right human tools to be able to make sure we're sending the right message and things like that. Yep.

[Mike Shields]

Okay. Left turn a little bit. But I want to ask you about your podcast. You've been. You've been. You guys were early on podcasting. The Daily has been a huge hit. You've expanded.

[Tusar Barak]

Yeah.

[Mike Shields]

Now, podcasting has clearly been having this bigger moment in our business, you know, post election, and it's so many, so many podcasts are. Are advertisers drawn to the Daily and other big ones and are because of their big audiences. And are you now able to have conversations in, like, the video ad bucket that maybe you couldn't in the past?

[Tusar Barak]

Yeah, for sure. Well, first off, the Daily and what Michael Barbara and team have built out and now with our new co hosts as well, is just amazing. I think you might be like the most downloaded podcast that's existed. And so it's pretty amazing. The following they have. I'll just tell you a quick funny side story, then we'll get into it. But when I started at the time, one of the, the best things that has happened in my time since I've started is every time I tell someone I'm at the New York Times now, immediately everyone has some unique relationship or story that they have with the New York Times. It could be around. You know, I play wordle every day. My grandfather has played Crossboards, you know, for 25 years and does it every. Every Sunday or something that, like, scale of that relationship. I don't think people, every time I say it, everyone's reaction is exactly what.

[Mike Shields]

Yours is because it's so multifaceted, right?

[Tusar Barak]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And so the reason I bring that up is one of the best stories I heard was I was with a former colleague and they were telling me, you know, Michael Barbara's voice has a very special place in my family's heart. And I was like, okay. I was like, interesting. And I know Michael, and so I got to tell him the story. And he, like, almost started tearing when I told him. But effectively, this person, his spouse, her father wasn't doing well, and so she was going to the hospital every morning for months to go see her dad and stay with him. And every morning she would listen to the Daily while there. And so that was the comforting voice that she heard every day. And so it's just like this amazing relationship that exists. Right. That's just like, wow. But so sorry to go to your question, though. I think you're exactly right.

[Mike Shields]

Like, no one in my family has ever listened to my pot or said anything nice about it.

[Tusar Barak]

We'll work on that. We'll work on it. We'll get you 12.

[Mike Shields]

But anyway, I'm sorry.

[Tusar Barak]

Yeah, one. One day you'll get to a different Michael status, if you will.

[Mike Shields]

Yeah, yeah, I don't think I'm there.

[Tusar Barak]

Yet, but yeah, so. But in terms of your question, that's exactly what we're seeing is the evolution of what I would say, not just audio, but audio and video. And really what I think of as the shows as a whole. And at the New York Times. I think this actually goes to your previous question as well. We've evolved, right? And we've evolved based on meeting people where they are. So if you think about it, 174 years ago, it was a newspaper. You got DLA printed, things like that. Over time, we've had to evolve to make sure we're meeting people as they consume information, but in a way that's authentic to who we are. And so, you know, whether that be the data visualization that happened in the late 2000s to early 2010, and how we've thought about how we storytell, whether we think about being early into audio and going to do that. You know, Meredith, our CEO, has a great story. She tells us around like, she's a big runner. And every morning she listens to when she's running, she listens to whether it be different shows or even the fact that we have audio record recordings of our news stories to be able to keep up what's going on. Right. And so it's meeting people where they want to be. Video is a new way that people want to be, of course, on the Internet, how they consume information. So what we've done is we've evolved our audio to be more show, like with audio and or video, so you can consume it as you want. And it's just a way to, like, be multimodal, innovative in our storytelling, being able to think about whether that be the daily to know about your daily news, about going a little deeper than just reading the article or we've also done that, frankly, with our opinion shows, whether it Be Ezra Klein, whether it be Raw Ross. Doubt it. But also across the portfolio. So in cooking, we have more video franchises that have come out, more video forward in the Athletic, they've launched a number of shows. And Dominica sue, the former NFL player, now has a podcast, which is also both audio and video. That's free lunch. And so we're producing a lot because we've just seen a lot of demand increase, both on audio and video, frankly. And we want to, we want to first and foremost meet the consumers where they want to. And just like, just for like, some statistics, you know, I think we've had over, you know, I think 20 million unique monthly listeners and over almost 70 million monthly downloads for audio. Right. So it's, it's a lot of consumption is going on, but we're also producing video. We're producing over 75 hours of professional video every month across our newsroom. So there's a lot, there's a lot going on.

[Mike Shields]

And so does that complicate your life when you're trying to figure out who at the end, at the various agencies to talk to or the brands or like, do these things tend to be mega packages or, you know, somebody, some advertisers just want to do the video. Some are really still audio. Some are, you know, doing all the other things you talked about. Is it all over the place?

[Tusar Barak]

I would say it's not as all over the place as you would think. But that said, of course, like, we do have to. To the same way we have to meet. I've talked a lot about the consumer, I mean, because I do think the consumer is most important, make sure we meet them. But from a customer perspective, it's also very important. We help them transact how they want to and interact. And so if they buy in buckets, we got to be able to do that. What we've been seeing a lot of happening recently, which is nice because of the, you know, the multiple teams I have that are part of my organization. It's. It's nice to be able to see all the different pockets. We've thought a lot more around, like, solutions, mindsets. And so one of the things we've done since I've come in is we actually have been working with agencies and customers directly to understand what, what are they trying to achieve? What's the job they're trying to achieve, or job to be done. And then we've developed solutions packages that enable them to do that. So what we'll say is, hey, if you want to look at it, just from audio or just from video. Sure, we can help you with that. But if you want to think about it holistically, here's how we'd recommend being able to do it where it's some audio money, some video money, and some, you know, display money, if you will, and how that works. And so being able to think through the entire lifecycle of the campaign and how we can really be a, a true partner to them and not just another publishing vendor, if you will.

[Mike Shields]

So what does that do in terms of measurement? You have to have. You have to do you do. You have to have some kind of multi, you know, the full funnel approach and talk to them in all these different specific terms. Because everyone's outcomes obsessed. But not all these, not all these pieces are going to drive immediate outcomes depending on the brand. Like, what does that look like? What does measurement look like?

[Tusar Barak]

Yeah, great question. And it's helpful that I also oversee the measurement team. So we do. That team is working on overdrive. Right. In terms of all the different ways we have to measure, of course, at like the highest level, you've got like M and N models that we can work with, things like that. Those are for big campaigns, big advertisers. We also want to make sure we're meeting folks again where their objectives are. And so what we've actually done in this past year is think through. We've developed this like, measurement playbook to be able to measure in different ways. So if they're at the top of the funnel, we've got, of course, like our brand studies being able to run that across all different, whether that be the display, whether that be audio, whether that be, you know, even in print, across the board, how we think about what those opportunities are. Some of those. What we found though is we need to make sure that we offer both, like the big brand studies, but also if they're smaller campaigns, you still want to see how it's at least trending. And so we found opportunities to work with them on campaigns of all sizes, to be able to, to be able to find how brand is performing or at least trending, if you will. Right. I don't know that every single one of these is ugly. Significant on the. Statistically significant on the smaller portions, but on the on. But we can at least see how it's trending. The other thing we think about is a lot to your point on outcomes, we think about outcomes based on the objective. So of course there's lower funnel outcomes that people are trying to make sure they're developing products you know, we have developed some unique products like we just launched this past year the wire cutter shopping unit. And that's like more of a lower funnel type way where you can, if you're a wire cutter approved, you know, product, you can then get that out there to help drive deals. And we have relationships with both, you know, retailers but also affiliates to be able to drive that. We also think a lot about mid funnel as well. Whether that be things like attention, whether that be things like consideration. We're trying to make sure that we are able to measure across the board to be able to, you know, as, you know, better than all of us. Like it's all about making sure that we drive the outcomes. But also marketers are under increasing pressure every day to improve what they're doing and so we need to help them make that story and make sure that we are showing up as a true partner to them across the entire funnel.

[Mike Shields]

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Journalists with fandoms or you know, like a mix between creators and journalism journalists. Do you come to brands that way and say like you should buy everything that Ezra Klein does or because you're a good synergy or this newsletter is going to sell this for a very specific audience. Like do you think about things like that?

[Tusar Barak]

Yeah, I think we think about it More around like, of course, going back to what I started with the New York Times, that solar system and news as the, the son of it all. We think about ourselves as that the New York Times and what the New York Times provide. Like, we have amazing talent, but that is both talent, you know, for off the top of your head, whether that be Ezra Klein, that be Ross, whether that be Andrew Ross, Sorkin, Michael Barbara. I could go on and list people, right, that we have a bunch of great talent. We have a ton of amazing clients that you might not know off the top of your head. But when you read their articles, you, you then start to see the trend of how good are. And what the New York Times provides is that an individual creator can't get is the backing of the New York Times. And that's not just the brand of the New York Times. That is the amount of editors we have, the amount of researchers we have the full ability to be able to know one person can do that. And our biggest talent. Names will say that directly to you and so will every other person that works in the newsroom. And so as we think about it, we think about it in that perspective and how we're helping to do that. So yes, there are names that come more to mind and forward and we, but we don't sell it like that. We sell it as the entire portfolio. And to your point on newsletters, I think how we think about newsletters in particular is it's a really good personal and what I call, I guess, like accessible entry point into the Times where you're getting something in your, in your news. I'm sorry, in your email about what's going on. But we've got the breadth of whether that be like the morning where you can get the full, you know, full rundown of key things happening, or if you're talking about a very specific type of audience. For example, if you think about, like, what are business leaders doing? What are CEOs saying? We've got DealBook. And DealBook is a brand in itself. And so, yes, Andrew Ross Sorkin does run that team, but that is a, that is a brand by itself, just like the Morning is a brand. We've also got other newsletters across Cooking, Sports and beyond. And so, you know, even in the Athletic, I think the Athletic has like 10 newsletters and they're seeing of those, I think over 6 million subscriptions. Right? So, so we're seeing a lot that's happening in newsletters as a, as an entry point to be able to go deeper because Again, it's about meeting people, where they want to be met and how they consume information.

[Mike Shields]

Okay, we, we mentioned the, you know, you guys have done a lot in gaming over the last couple years, famously with wordle, but now there are, there are so many brand Times branded games. That's a huge audience for you. I'm guessing that's a pretty different audience than, than the traditional Times reader. And of an expansion, does that, does that help you talk to different advertisers and different categories that maybe were not available before?

[Tusar Barak]

Yeah, I mean, I think it definitely opens up, opens up potential ways. But in the same way that our acquisition of the Athletic also opened up potential new app, not just new advertisers, but new advertising budgets potentially. Right. As we think about sports marketing, things like that.

What I would say though is yes, wordle was an amazing acquisition that happened and New York Times Games is a global phenomenon, but games is actually what I don't think people realize is a part of the times DNA since like the 40s. So yeah, I don't, I learned this after I joined and maybe you know this and maybe some of your listeners do, but the first crossword actually came out in print during World War II. And the reason, yeah, and I, I find it super interesting because the reason they did it was with everything going on with World War II, people really needed a way to get through what was going on in the world. They needed some sort of reprieve. And so game the crosswords was a way for them to do it. Which, yeah, it doesn't sound too different than, you know, how we're thinking about the world today. Right. And so, and so, yes, we've expanded our games portfolio. There's a number of different games. We actually launched our first non word based game, Pips this year, which by the way, is something that I'm really good at. Word games, I haven't been as great as, but like Pips is like my game. The fact that it's numbers and dominoes, like it's what I'm all about. And so it really is just another way for people to come back every day to interact with us in a productive manner too. Right. Like, yes, you're playing a game, but you're also, you're using parts of your brain. That's really helpful. Yes.

[Mike Shields]

But they're, they're stimulated. They're not, they're not, it's not candy. Gross. Not to knock. There's nothing, there's nothing wrong with that. But it's, it's a different kind of gaming experience.

[Tusar Barak]

Exactly. And like that. I think that's why Games for New York Times work so well is everything we do is very intentional and it's making sure it's, it's reliant within the core of who we are as the New York Times. And games is just another example that the Athletic. Another example of that. Right? Yes. We could just be another place to get scores. That is not what the Athletic is. The Athletic is about going in depth and beyond. And we, I, I think the Athletic actually is the largest sports newsroom in the world. And so across the board, like yes, World was and is super successful and we do get people to come back more and more because of it. But it just continues to be another entry point of the entire ecosystem that is the New York Times. And also people interact with games in a little bit of a different way in the sense that yes, they're coming every morning to play. They're also doing pretty unique things in terms of sharing. So one stat my team found out this year was over 2,000 people per minute are sharing their world score. Literally screenshotting it around. Yeah. And so it just gives us this like unparalleled scale with a highly engaged audience. That is a very unique way to being in from an advertising perspective. What that's done for us has enabled us to have a new way for advertising to show up. And so, you know, one of the things in this past year that's happened as well. When I started, they had, or I should say late, late last year before I had started was the first time that we had a full advertising opportunity across our entire portfolio. Until then it wasn't available across the board. And so now we have the full portfolio, including within games. And we actually have really launched with a video forward aspect of advertising in games. And so we have one of our.

Best video units that actually happens in games before play where what it does is when you think about the portfolio, if you add games to like our core news product from a brand perspective, it drives awareness up 21% dated. And I think for just brand consideration it's like over 30% growth. So we're just, we're seeing different to your point on measurement before, we're seeing even increased measurement results by being able to allow advertisers to touch the audience on that as well.

[Mike Shields]

From a. I don't know if you, if you can answer this question because it may depend on the channel and the category. But like people wonder how much of your publishers got back and forth with how much they Lean into programmatic versus direct sales versus private marketplace. All these different variations.

[Tusar Barak]

Sure.

[Mike Shields]

And then you guys have now more inventory than you ever used to have.

But then there's also the factor of, like, some brands are freaked out about news or what. So what does that makeup look like with direct versus Programmatic and that kind of. Those kind of issues.

[Tusar Barak]

Yeah, I would say so. I would start by saying, like, in the past 18 months, we've actually invested significantly in expanding our programmatic strategy and opportunities. That said, what I will say is very intentional for us how we think about it. So just like I keep talking about meeting consumers where they are. This is about meeting marketers where they are programmatic, to me and to our organization is just a means to be able to make it less friction or. Yeah. Enable less friction to be able to buy. So it's the pipes. It's not necessarily all the open auction piece, things like that. And so. Right.

[Mike Shields]

Flow. And then there's like, you know, exchanges.

[Tusar Barak]

Yeah, yeah. And it's not necessarily about driving, you know, driving just dollars because we have a ton more. A ton more inventory. Listen, the inventory, that is scale. Yes. But we have a healthy amount of demand in this class. Earnings, you saw it as well. We talked about a little bit in the earnings. Like, we have healthy demand coming in. But what we want to make sure is we make it easy for marketers to buy in the way they want to. So it's really about continuing to maintain the value of who we are. And that value is not just, you know, a CPM or dollar amount. It's also the value of what ads you see, frankly, within the New York Times and making sure it's up to the standard of who we are.

[Mike Shields]

You know, we are very chunk it up.

[Tusar Barak]

Yeah, we don't want to chunk it up. And it's also like, you know, you go to some sites and you're like, you got to go through, like, five different layers to be able to see what you're actually trying to read. It is very intentional for us. Yeah, yeah. And so we want to make sure that we are there to be able to. To be able to.

Have consumers read and engage in a way that they want to. And yes, there is advertise there. And also we're also not trying to make it suspicious. Right. You should know you see an ad when you see an ad. So it's not also a feed where it's like, integrated and you're not sure if you're seeing an ad or not. It's very clear that You've seen an ad, but it's still useful to you when you see that. And so I guess to answer your question very directly, it's. We look at programmatic primarily as a way to make sure marketers are able to transact with us how they want to but still maintain the quality of who we are and prestige of what we have. Got it.

[Mike Shields]

Last thing, kind of circling back to video, I want to ask you. It's been very, very evident the last year or so I got when you start seeing on the homepage writers kind of talking directly to the camera or almost in like a YouTube TikTok like thing recently launched Watch tab. So I guess what are you seeing in terms of what's the strategy behind this video engagement and how is that maybe changing the the times is it's experience.

[Tusar Barak]

Yeah, yeah, totally. Well, I'm glad you've noticed it. So that's good. That means our strategy is working. And if it isn't clear that video is a core part of our strategy and we've significantly spent a large amount of resourcing to make sure that we are able to do that again, it goes back to this idea of like evolving with consumer needs and making sure that we're providing it for them. And you know, a good friend of mine actually calls video the love language of the Internet. I love that line because it's just, you know, that's how we consume, how we consume information now we've seen our audience demand for video just grow. I think it's been like double digit growth year over year and we've significantly invested in increasing our video journalism across all of our portfolio. Right. So to your point. Exactly. Like you see the camera of the reporter going a little more in depth. It's almost, it's. To me, it kind of reminds me of bringing like just a little bit of the daily to the news story where you can go a little more in depth than just reading the article. Right. And what this does is this builds a deeper connection with that reporter and that person that's reading or going deeper into that. But we're also doing it across the portfolio. Right. I mentioned in cooking we have a bunch of new video series that started the Athletic. I mentioned the Don Kasu piece. We also have on the podcast or audio. It's now about shows, it's not about individual audio. And so whether that be what we talked about Ezra or Ross, but also hard fork which goes into technology and AI and understanding that we've done a lot there. And so we're Investing a lot in video to make sure that consumers get what they want. It's got to be a destination for, for consumers and how they think through that. But it's like I mentioned, we're producing 75 plus hours a month of professionally produced videos because it's about the videos that are, that are about that stand with the times. What I will say from an advertising perspective, we're also making sure that we enable advertisers to do that. And so I mentioned the games piece before. We have an interstitial within games that we launched this year. It's actually one of our most viewed ad placements. I think viewability is close to 90% on average on that one. Um, and we've also launched actually I don't know if you've seen within the app. We've launched the Watch tab last month. Um, so at the bottom. Yeah, so at the bottom it's swipeable stack of videos. And I know everyone's got reaction is to think of it like some of the social feeds that exist. Like, like that.

[Mike Shields]

It's not Brain Roddy though. Yeah, it's different.

[Tusar Barak]

Yeah, it's, it's not brand rowdy and it's also like it's shorter form for the Times, but it's not short form video. I mean some of these videos go a minute and a half. It's again about going in depth and it's across our entire portfolio. So you see news, you see opinion, you see athletic, you see wirecutter and you see cooking, you see across the board all of the different video assets that exist. And what we're really excited for advertisers is actually we have. The beta is opening up now and early next year you'll start to see a little bit of video advertising opportunity that will exist within the Watch as well. Yeah. So we are very, we are very invested and video is a strategy for sure. But we are making sure that we deliver the right value to consumers first because we feel just like I talked about with the earnings that the advertising opportunity will follow that to make sure that it's a good opportunity for market. Right.

[Mike Shields]

That's a perfect tease to end things on. Awesome conversation. Thanks so much for your time here and let's, let's chat again. Congrats on the first year.

[Tusar Barak]

Thank you. Appreciate the time. Really had a great time and I wish all the best. Thank you.

[Mike Shields]

Thank you. A big thanks to my guests this week, the New York Times, Susar Barak and my partners at Elemental TV and sabio. If you like this week's episode. Please take a moment to read and leave a review. We have lots more to bring you, so please hit that subscribe button. We'll see you next time for more on what's Next in Media. Thanks for listening.