How to Turn Music Artists into YouTubers

Summary

Next in Media: How to Turn Music Artists into YouTubers Hosted by Mike Shields | Released on April 16, 2025

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Introduction

In the April 16, 2025 episode of Next in Media, host Mike Shields interviews George Carolaxis, CEO and co-founder of Ten Two Media, and Donna Boudicca, co-founder and COO of Ten Two Media. The discussion centers on transforming music artists into successful YouTube creators, exploring the unique challenges and opportunities within this evolving landscape.

Backgrounds of the Founders

George Carolaxis and Donna Boudicca bring diverse backgrounds to Ten Two Media. Donna shares her journey from being a professional musician signed to Island Records to transitioning into music management and entrepreneurship. She explains how the COVID-19 pandemic unveiled significant opportunities on YouTube, especially as artists needed to find new ways to engage with their fanbases digitally.

Donna Boudicca elucidates her contrasting path, starting with a finance degree from Wharton and working at CAA in the motion picture and talent division. Her passion for pop culture and strategic outreach led her to co-found Ten Two Media with George, recognizing the underserved potential within the music sector on YouTube.

[02:08] Donna Boudicca: "We realized in the music space in particular was really underserviced. And it was an opportunity to start a business to fill a gap that was needed in the market."

Identifying the Gap in the YouTube Ecosystem

The founders identified that traditional music industry practices on YouTube were limited to hosting music videos without leveraging the platform's full potential for brand development and storytelling. Donna highlights the stigma associated with YouTube, where artists would simply upload videos without strategic engagement, resulting in underutilized revenue opportunities.

[04:57] Donna Boudicca: "People just treated YouTube as a place to host music videos... and they forget about it, right?"

Building a Specialized YouTube Strategy for Musicians

Ten Two Media differentiates itself by combining deep musical insight with YouTube expertise. Donna emphasizes the importance of understanding both the creative and business aspects of music and YouTube to provide a competitive advantage.

[06:26] Donna Boudicca: "Being an artist understanding the business of music and also the business of YouTube at that intersection is a competitive advantage in itself."

The team developed a suite of tools, including lyric video generators and UGC tracking systems, to help artists maximize engagement and revenue on YouTube. By leveraging YouTube’s Content Management Systems (CMS) and content ID technologies, Ten Two Media enables artists to monetize fan-generated content effectively.

Monetization and Revenue Growth

A significant focus of the discussion is on monetization strategies. Donna explains how Ten Two Media’s approach leads to substantial revenue lifts for artists, with some clients experiencing up to a 5 to 7x increase in earnings.

[10:01] Donna Boudicca: "Some of our bigger clients... they're making millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars on the platform."

Ten Two Media collaborates with a wide range of clients, from major record labels to independent artists, ensuring a genre-agnostic approach that accommodates various music styles.

Protecting Intellectual Property and Encouraging UGC

Protecting artists' intellectual property (IP) is crucial. Donna discusses how Ten Two Media monetizes fan-generated content without stifling creativity, allowing artists to benefit financially from widespread content use.

[11:27] Donna Boudicca: "We're able to monetize that content because as it proliferates and as fans create UGC, we're able to identify that IP and allow the artists to monetize at a higher level."

Expanding Beyond Music and to Other Platforms

While Ten Two Media specializes in music, Donna confirms the applicability of their strategies to other creator types. However, the focus remains on YouTube due to its comprehensive ecosystem, which combines long-form content, shorts, live streaming, and robust analytics.

[12:01] Donna Boudicca: "We do have some non-music clients and it works... leveraging that brand to tell a unique message and have your unique point of view."

YouTube vs. Other Social Media Platforms

The conversation delves into the strengths of YouTube compared to platforms like TikTok and Instagram. Donna highlights YouTube's multi-format capabilities and superior monetization options, arguing that it offers a more authentic and engaging platform for artists to build their brand.

[14:36] Donna Boudicca: "You have a more engaged audience than on a phone that I think you miss out on with short form."

Despite the popularity of short-form content, Ten Two Media advises that integrating both long-form and short-form content on YouTube is essential for maximizing discovery and revenue.

[14:46] Donna Boudicca: "If you're not creating short form, you're pretty much left in the dust at the moment."

Challenges in the Modern Music Industry

The hosts and guests discuss the shift towards independent music, which has significantly impacted major label market share. The democratization of music distribution has led to content overload, making it harder for artists to stand out without a strong brand and strategic online presence.

[21:47] Donna Boudicca: "The present and the future is you really now have to have a point of view more than ever. Because standing out now is really hard."

YouTube’s Growing Acceptance in Hollywood

Donna addresses YouTube’s evolving perception within Hollywood, noting that it is becoming increasingly integrated into mainstream media as consumption habits shift towards digital platforms.

[19:57] Donna Boudicca: "It's rapidly evolving and very quickly kind of becoming the norm."

Conclusion: The Future of Artists on YouTube

In wrapping up, George and Donna emphasize the importance of adaptability and strategic content creation on YouTube. They assert that YouTube offers unparalleled opportunities for artists to build sustainable and profitable careers by leveraging its diverse content formats and robust monetization tools.

[24:05] Donna Boudicca: "The ability to reach an audience in the way that they consume content that is authentic to your own brand and your ability to build that brand, I think exists in a superior way on YouTube than it does on other platforms."

Final Thoughts

Mike Shields concludes the episode by thanking George and Donna for their insightful discussion on harnessing YouTube’s potential for music artists. The conversation underscores the transformative impact of strategic YouTube engagement in the modern media landscape.

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Notable Quotes:

• Donna Boudicca [02:08]: "We realized in the music space in particular was really underserviced. And it was an opportunity to start a business to fill a gap that was needed in the market."
• Donna Boudicca [06:26]: "Being an artist understanding the business of music and also the business of YouTube at that intersection is a competitive advantage in itself."
• Donna Boudicca [14:36]: "You have a more engaged audience than on a phone that I think you miss out on with short form."
• Donna Boudicca [21:47]: "The present and the future is you really now have to have a point of view more than ever. Because standing out now is really hard."

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Transcript

[Mike Shields]

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[George Carolaxis]

Week on Nexty Media, I spoke with.

[Mike Shields]

George Carolaxis, CEO and co founder of Ten Two Media, and his partner and COO Donna Boudicca. George and Donna both have backgrounds in Hollywood, but actually saw opening in recent years to specialize in helping music artists figure out YouTube. Everything from distribution to analytics to even branded content deals. So I talk to them about what's unique about this category, whether every artist.

[George Carolaxis]

Is actually cut out to be a.

[Mike Shields]

Creator, and what brands need to know.

[George Carolaxis]

About this evolving universe.

[Mike Shields]

Let's get started.

[George Carolaxis]

Hi everybody. Welcome to NEXT to Media. I'm Mike Shields. I have two guests this week. We have George Carolexis, he's a co founder and CEO of 10G Media and his colleague Donna Boudicca who is the co founder and COO of Ten2Media. Welcome both of you.

[Donna Boudicca]

Thank you for having us.

[George Carolaxis]

I think we should probably just start at the top because like we are, you guys are center are focused in the YouTube creator business ecosystem. But I think we should probably just explain your backgrounds maybe and what Ten2Media is all about and then get into what's going on these days. So maybe George, I'll start with you.

[Donna Boudicca]

Yeah, my background is pretty interesting. I actually started my career as a professional musician. Signed to Island Records really right after high school and I toured, moved to Europe, did the whole thing, realized being a professional musician was not for me.

[George Carolaxis]

Not an easy life, right? Not an easy gig.

[Donna Boudicca]

Not an Easy gig. Early 2000s punk rock touring in a sprinter van on European roads was not ideal. Got into music management and and expanded and built a company with some of my partners where we focused on the management, marketing, production of events and ultimately ticketing. So my background's very all over the place. Been an entrepreneur basically my entire life and then how we got to this business and then I'll hand it to Donna is around Covid. We realized that there was this big opportunity around YouTube where artists, creators, anybody who had a fan base that they wanted to communicate with had to become a content creator. Some were good, right? Some weren't. And then YouTube had just started rolling out shorts and they became, right, this like super app, multi format app platform that we realized in the music space in particular was really underserviced. And it was an opportunity to start a business to fill a gap that was needed in the market.

[George Carolaxis]

I want to come back to you on that business and the gaps you saw, but maybe, Donna, just jump in here, Your. Your background, how you guys came together.

[D]

And so my background is the polar opposite, but we ended up in the same place. I'm an immigrant kid. I grew up in Philadelphia. I studied finance at Wharton. Very traditional, kind of straight edge, educational background. Got my MBA and love pop culture growing up. So did my sister. So I just decided to kind of do cold outreach to see how I could get my start in entertainment. And I ended up with a finance degree working at CAA for one of the partners there in motion picture lit and talent. And then kind of went from there and tried to explore the various aspects of entertainment industry, including music, including brand strategy, and then ultimately became an entrepreneur. Started my first company with my sister. And then we had met, my sister introduced us actually, and saw the opportunity and just decided to explore the space, launch the company. And it grew from there.

[George Carolaxis]

It's interesting. You get into the movie division of CIA, you probably think, like, that's. You've made your career and then obviously the world and then the industry has changed a million different ways since then. But that's. That's a fascinating path. Okay, so Covid, you obviously creators have been on YouTube for a while, but you're talking about. I think you're talking about a range of folks probably that needed to figure out their strategy there. Like, what's. What's a maybe typical example of somebody that needed your help where you saw the gap.

[Donna Boudicca]

I think what's. Where we saw the gap was in the music, traditional music space. People just treated YouTube as a place to host music videos, right?

[George Carolaxis]

And Vivo is big. You throw. Throw that up. My job's done kind of here.

[Donna Boudicca]

Yeah, there you go. Like, hey, I spent a lot of money on a music video that traditionally would have gone to MTV, VH1, et cetera. Now it's on YouTube and they just put it up and they forget about it, right? And it had this stigma that they pay, you know, shitty rates. No One actually knows what's going on, et cetera, et cetera. Right. That was kind of the YouTube stigma. Covid. Everyone has to find a way to communicate. And when you think about TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, they all are an interesting way to communicate with your audience. YouTube's the only platform that actually pays you for your content in a meaningful way. And then if we're talking about storytelling and brand development, YouTube's the ultimate platform for that. And as they rolled out short form, really double down on live streaming, you know, memberships, all the various ways to engage with your audience, we realize like, wow, this is the opportunity. No one's talking about it in music. Everyone's focused on Spotify, creator world, everybody's focusing on brand deals on TikTok. Let's build a business fully vertically integrated where we hyper focus on YouTube and the video content that comes from it.

[George Carolaxis]

What was maybe missing? Because there, there are companies out there who service the YouTube ecosystem, but they probably don't have the same kind of specialization. They're probably reaching creators at different stages or from different genres. Like what was kind of missing that folks were looking for?

[D]

I think the fundamental through line of our company is that we have founders who've been musicians, who've been artists, who I was a music manager, I was an independent artist. And just generally the constellation and experience that we as founders and the ethos and mentality and experience that we bring is quite unique because being an artist understanding the business of music and also the business of YouTube at that intersection is a competitive advantage in itself. And I think that our ability to be able to speak informatively about what the artists are doing about how to understand music marketing on the platform in particular, and hyper focusing on this particular platform is something that has helped us grow.

[George Carolaxis]

I imagine this varies widely depending on how long an artist has been active and what stages in the career. And I'm going to guess a lot of some artists don't feel natural in terms of interacting with a community. Maybe they care about making money on.

[Mike Shields]

YouTube, maybe some don't.

[George Carolaxis]

What are they looking for from the versus a typical like a born on YouTube creator. How do you help them unlock value?

[Donna Boudicca]

Good question. So to take I want to go back to something Donna said is when we realized how we're going to unlock the full value is we have another partner who had a very successful company called Studio71. And Reza allowed us to really dive and understand the full potential of YouTube beyond music and marketing. And the three of us really put together an interesting kind of point of view. And then we brought on our CTO who was previously at Studio71 for 11 years. And we realized that if we built a value chain and technology that would allow us to track because user generated content is such a big part of YouTube for not only musicians, but anyone, right? And then leveraging the CMS because we have a few content management systems from Google that allow us to distribute and monetize that content, then when we start unlocking value, it goes beyond just a video we can track, leveraging content ID and the tools that we have built, how people are creating with a song, right, and how that might influence new content. Or should we spin out a second channel that looks like a fan channel, but we manage it in a way and monetize it from a premium standpoint that looks like it's natural, maybe not be the artist. So like you said, an artist might not be a natural creator, but they have incredible songs or they have great content from a tour, et cetera. So we've built all these tools like lyric video generators, UGC tracking, all these tools that help us better understand how the audience is engaging beyond the YouTube channel. And then we take that off. Our team then leverages the strategies and understanding how YouTube works to increase their surface area on the platform, which leads to discovery and ultimately revenue. And when it works, some of our bigger clients, we've seen like 5 to 7x revenue lift, right? These guys are making, you know, millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars on the platform. And then others are able to create a sustainable business. If you're an independent artist with many artists who are earning almost seven figures a year because of the way that we're collaborating with them.

[George Carolaxis]

And I don't know if you can give us examples. Are these artists that we would all know, are they more like different career trajectories or different moments where this is, this is big money to them to.

[Donna Boudicca]

Be building a business, I mean, all over the gamut, everyone from legacy artists, because we collaborate with big management companies and like private equity firms that own every artist you would know to major record labels, all the way down to independent artists you've never heard of. So I think what Donna, as the operator of the company has done a great job is we built like a genre agnostic point of view that works from everything from like a country artist to Christian music to hip hop. And we've had tremendous success. I mean, we had over 60 number one videos on YouTube since we launched in 2023.

[George Carolaxis]

Don, I'm definitely not a Music copyright expert. I understand that there are issues in terms of protecting people's music on YouTube, but also wanting to encourage fan involvement and proliferation of their stuff. Right. How much of that is a focus for you guys, if at all? And what is the state of policing YouTube versus promoting that kind of thing? If that makes sense.

[D]

Yeah. I mean, one of the core things that we do is protect the IP rights of artists.

[George Carolaxis]

Yeah.

[D]

And that doesn't mean discouraging necessarily fans from utilizing that ip, but it does mean that we're able to monetize that content because as it proliferates and as fans create ugc, we're able to identify that IP and allow the artists to monetize at a higher level.

[George Carolaxis]

Okay, my mind goes a couple different directions here. Can this playbook be applied to other categories, other types of creators beyond musicians? And then can this also be applied beyond YouTube to Reels, TikTok, other platforms?

[Donna Boudicca]

Yeah. So we do have some non music clients and it works. Right. Because it's basically, I think what we've done a really good job is understanding, like what's your superpower or what is your competitive advantage as a creator, a musician, a storyteller, whatever it might be. And it's figuring out a strategy that leverages that brand to tell a unique message and have your unique point of view. And I think when you have that and you have an aesthetic and you have a point of view, even if it's not music, you stand out. Right. Because we're in content overload. I think when it comes to TikTok and Instagram, TikTok's like a viral platform that maybe is predictable, but it feels like every few months it's constantly evolving. Right.

[George Carolaxis]

Like it's less, it's less. Follow consistent patterns of viewership, Follow your favorite creator kind of thing.

[Donna Boudicca]

Yeah, it's more about like the actual video versus the creator. Right. Like it's like it doesn't make sense. And Instagram is cool, but we kind of say that Instagram's like a fashion magazine or like Rob Report, where it's like pretty pictures, aspirational lifestyle. And that kind of stuff tends to work well. It's also like a sound off kind of platform. Yes, you can tag music, but every time, I mean, if you're like on a subway or in public, people are like doom scrolling on Instagram with the sound off. So it's a different type of way to engage, you know, Donna or how.

[George Carolaxis]

Are you guys living and dying by? What's gonna happen with TikTok is it something you just kind of have to press ahead with, not worry about or like, what's the state of.

[D]

I mean I think anything in media, if you're blindly living in a silo, it's not really the way to go. Yeah, but I mean the beauty of this platform, of YouTube in particular is that it has a whole host of touch points. Right. It's basically a super app that is an aggregation of long form, short form, still imagery, UGC that you can identify and aggregate and it's just, it's much more trying for dissemination of various types of content, various formats of content and to be able to really build a narrative from a brand standpoint, whether artists or not, to be authentic on the platform and really build a community around your own brand and build the brand and grow the brand.

[George Carolaxis]

You know, you hear different things about shorts and short form in general. Let's hear some creators, they don't love it.

[Donna Boudicca]

It's.

[George Carolaxis]

They, they like the long form aspects of YouTube. They like the fact that it's on television a lot of times. Is that matter to your clients a whole lot? Is it vary you know what they're looking for?

[Donna Boudicca]

Yeah, I think that it matters because if you're not creating short form, you're pretty much left in the dust at the moment. Like in terms of like discovery. I think that creators and musicians tend to gravitate towards long form because the revenue generation, the CPMs are you know, 10, 20 times higher.

[George Carolaxis]

Have a little more, feels like you have a lot more control maybe.

[Donna Boudicca]

Yeah, totally. And now with tv like you hinted, that's a huge opportunity to just engage and connect and you have a more engaged audience than on a phone that I think you miss out on with short form. But I think it's actually really important. You have to be in it. It's just the, the present and the future of content. So you have to be able to tell these bite sized stories or. Right. Get your point across in a short vertical format. Otherwise I think it's like really difficult for you to find new audiences.

[D]

And at the end of the day there's something to be said about this kind of multi format aggregator platform. And the aspect that we always go back to is there's a level of authenticity that's mandated in the content that you're creating. If you gravitate towards long form, we're not saying like leave out short form because then that isolates and gets rid of an entire audience, that that's their dominant.

[George Carolaxis]

Right. That seems like a mistake.

[D]

Yeah, it's about Knowing user behavior and knowing your audience behavior and then leaning into what's authentic for you and also knowing that the data telling you something about who's consuming your content and looking at that in an informed way.

[George Carolaxis]

Even if you are, if you might be saying, well, I'm not, I'm not making any money on this, like why do I want to do this? I'm sure that is a question you get that's there's a lot of different reasons for doing that and that if done well, everything ties together to a place where you have a little more predictable model, I guess. Yeah.

[Donna Boudicca]

Because I mean, we're not saying it doesn't happen, but typically if you're like after brand deals, you're doing that stuff on Instagram and TikTok. Right. So it's like you create content either for a brand or you try to gain an audience to attract brands. I think on YouTube, like Donna hinted is, it's just one component of the larger ecosystem. You could still do brand deals, you could still generate money. We have, you know, creators and artists who are, who have seven figure a year businesses just off shorts because of the, the reach and the RPM CPM that we're able to get. Granted, they're getting billions of views, but they are making money where that same content lives on Instagram and TikTok and they're earning zero from it. So that's pretty interesting.

[George Carolaxis]

That is wild. I, I wonder. This is a little bit of. I, I, I'm somehow I, I got into a, my algorithm is giving me all standups on reels which I enjoy, but I'm, it seems good for these.

[Mike Shields]

Guys, Jim Gaffkin and Nate Bargazi and those guys.

[George Carolaxis]

But I, I don't know if they're making any money in there and I don't know if anyone's fig. But I imagine there's a lot of those kind of questions being asked in this business when it comes to brands. You know, so many of them have tried to glom on to popularity. Particular artists, whether it's at events or trying to do marketing partnerships, getting them in their ads, not, not always easy. Are they doing enough with music artists? Is there, is there a way for companies like you to help them crack this universe in a different way? Like is there, is it still underutilized? Besides, I'm just going to run some ads on Vevo or, or figure out a way to do an event with somebody.

[Donna Boudicca]

Yeah, I think it's really underutilized. I think that when again, when you look at YouTube and you look at the tools like GAM and you look at live streaming and long form and the ability like the analytics to really hyper target. I don't think it like brands and artists and even create maybe creators a little more, but artists have really reached their full potential. You know, five, ten years ago the MCN world people were trying to get as much viewership as possible to sell and cross sell. But I think like the bigger artists don't want to be a part of that conversation. They want to make sure that if an ad is running or there's a buyout on the channel, it's kind of on brand. And I think now there's a really compelling case, honestly. Like we have some really interesting brand partnerships with artists where you're able to offer short form, long form. We'll do like live streaming and it's a really interesting way to engage. And then obviously what artists have that creators and like actors don't have if they're on tour, you can create like a multi format opportunity with like the tour physical streaming. And it's very interesting.

[George Carolaxis]

Donna, we talked about, you know, YouTube has become this force on television last couple years. The creators are getting more attention. You see some of these guys getting deals with the streamers. What does Hollywood think of YouTube right now? Like are they still sort of. Is there still like a. That's a dismissiveness. Do they, Are they. Again, it's hard to generalize, but these creators are in our way and they're not really real media. Or is there. Is that evolving quickly?

[D]

I don't want to make any blanket statements about I love but genuinely the reality is that I myself from the time that I was working at CA and having watched the evolution of even the departments and categorization of the way that people were approaching like the creator space, digital world, very quickly it evolved, I still think from like an film and maybe entertainment standpoint, it's not shunned whatsoever. And I, I think like anything else in media and entertainment, if you don't embrace how things are evolving, you're left behind. And YouTube I think is a prime example of that. Because of the rate at which consumption, especially on television is becoming much more ubiquitous, it's because becoming much more accepted. And the type of content also on the platform is evolving very rapidly to mimic kind of ott. So again, without making blanket statements about the way the industry approaches it, I think it's rapidly evolving and very quickly kind of becoming the norm.

[George Carolaxis]

George, Donna, both of you, what do maybe people not understand about the modern Artist community and where things are trending. If you're only someone who maybe follows the music industry from afar, at the same time, what do people just not understand about this YouTube ecosystem that they should.

[Donna Boudicca]

Yeah, like, it's interesting because if you read the data and kind of the industry reports, independent music is eating into major label market share. Right. Traditionally, if you didn't have access to a record label, there was this massive barrier to entry. When I was in my band, we were making burning CDs and handing them out because that was the only way.

[George Carolaxis]

To get out there at the time.

[Donna Boudicca]

The only way to get out there. No distribution. Now you're watching the market share eat. The problem is they've democratized reaching fans. Now there's just too much content, content overload, hundred thousand songs a day, something crazy like that come out.

[George Carolaxis]

And that's just in that universe because forgetting about whatever else is going on.

[Donna Boudicca]

Just in that universe, which is insane. Right? So I think the present and the future is. You really now have to have a point of view more than ever. Because standing out now is really hard. In Spotify, YouTube, all of these streaming platforms, I can literally listen to any song that's ever been created whenever I want, however I want. So there's not this. Don and I were talking about this sense of urgency that I have to stand in line, buy a cd. It's a limited edition, I can't hear it. I have to to my friend's house to listen to it. And I think what that's done is you're seeing less superstars. Although last year we had a odd number of huge breakthrough artists. Right. Like, I don't know if you caught the Grammys, but it was the best new artist category.

[George Carolaxis]

Very competitive, really compelling. Yeah, man.

[Donna Boudicca]

For the first time, you're like, wow, every single one of these artists is unbelievable. And I could see standing out for a long time. So I think standing out is super hard. The competitive nature of a record label signing an artist, because, you know, we work with independent artists that are earning tens of millions of dollars a year on their music and doing the same touring. So they kind of go, why do I, why do I need to give up my rights if I could do this on my own? So I think the trend is really interesting. It's like democratizing access. But if you don't have a brand.

[George Carolaxis]

Or a point of view, discovery is really tough.

[Donna Boudicca]

Yeah, discovery's tough. And the whole one hit wonder thing happens way faster than it did. Then you, you go and you leave just as you know you leave as quickly as you came. So that's something that's a huge problem that we're experiencing and I think we'll continue to experience.

[George Carolaxis]

Is it just learning to work the YouTube system to its fullest while also having that point of view and just going past this idea of, well, I'm a good, I'm a good musician. That should speak for itself. But really engaging.

[D]

Yeah, I think the disparate, like to George's point, the disparity between the artist as the attribute that people are following versus the song exists differently on other platforms like TikTok versus YouTube. Because again, YouTube has a multitude of touch points, not only from a content format standpoint, but from a discoverability and from a monetization perspective. So the ability to reach an audience in the way that they consume content that is authentic to your own brand and your ability to build that brand, I think exists in a superior way on YouTube than it does on other platforms.

[George Carolaxis]

Well, George, Donna, awesome, Super interesting stuff. Thanks for educating the audience and taking your time out here. But great, great conversation here.

[Donna Boudicca]

Excellent. Thank you for having us.

[George Carolaxis]

Thanks so much.

[Mike Shields]

Thanks again to my guest this week 10 two medias, George Carolis and Donna Boudicca and my partners at View Planner. If you like this week's episode, please say mom's a rate and leave a review. Review. We have lots more to bring you, so please hit that subscribe button. We'll see you next time for more what's next in media.

[George Carolaxis]

Thanks for listening.