Next in Media – "Inside $37 Billion Creator Economy"

Host: Mike Shields
Date: December 11, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode brings together top industry leaders to explore how the fast-growing creator economy—now valued at $37 billion—is reshaping media, marketing, and advertising. Featuring perspectives from agencies, ad tech companies, creator managers, and influential creators, the conversation covers everything from platform dynamics and brand strategies to the challenges of measurement, the rising role of AI, and what it really means to collaborate with today’s creators.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Creator Economy as a Dominant Force

(Starting ~00:00)

• Mike Shields sets the scene, remarking on the surge in attention and investment in the creator space. He cites recent figures such as a $37B industry valuation and Gengo’s $40B fundraising as evidence of explosive growth.
• Quote (Mike Shields, 01:03): "It just seems like there is so much momentum in the space but so much to figure out."

2. Ad Tech & Platform Fragmentation

Connor McKenna, Luma Partners (02:07–06:14)

• Digital advertising is at a crossroads: traditional channels are declining, and creator-driven content is rising.
• Platforms once considered "walled gardens" (Meta, Google) are shifting from social networks to entertainment platforms; this opens opportunities for third-party tech to streamline fragmented creator media buys.
• Quote (Connor, 02:56): "What is more fragmented than the creator ecosystem where there’s...the quantum of all of TV added to YouTube a day?"
• Despite growth, much of the creator ecosystem operates manually (akin to early agency days); scalable, tech-driven solutions are just starting.

3. Disconnect Between Brand Desires and Execution

Zoe Soon, IAB Experience Center (06:57–09:14)

• Creators are uniquely trusted by audiences and offer unparalleled built-in distribution, especially with Gen Z.
• Major brands like Unilever are fast-tracking creator spending (50% of marketing), but internal disconnects persist on how campaigns are structured and measured.
• Quote (Zoe Soon, 07:19): "Creators [are] growing 400% faster than the average of digital media."
• Teams and incentives remain siloed (e.g., PR, creative, media), making true integration elusive.

4. Role of AI, Measurement, and Standardization

Group Discussion (09:14–16:32)

• AI promises scale and personalization in creative, but marketers are conflicted: authenticity/personal touch vs. handing over creative control to algorithms.
• There’s debate on whether the industry can (or should) develop a universal metric for creator content effectiveness.
  • Engagement and time on screen are viewed as blunt measures.
  • Platforms benefit from informational asymmetry and often resist third-party standardization.
• Quote (Connor, 13:13): "It would be nice to have something that captured the essence of creator that goes beyond just time on screen."

5. Platform Involvement in Creator Deals

(15:15–16:38)

• YouTube and Meta's increasing role in brokering/standardizing creator deals carries both opportunity and threat: more structure for brands, less room for third-party tech, and creators nervous about ceding control.
• Many creators are cross-platform and value independence.
• Quote (Connor, 15:44): "Selfishly speaking, I think not [good], because the less they're involved, the more there's room for third-party technology. But I also don't think creators want it."

Brand & Agency Integration: Evolving Models

6. Agency Perspectives: Blue Hour Studios & View Planner

Ali Parrish (Blue Hour Studios), Jeremy Stewards (View Planner) (17:20–27:16)

• Agencies see more integration of influencer/creator operations with media and creative—teams strive to create briefs collaboratively, driving alignment.
• Standardization more feasible than imagined: predictive models can score creator content for brand suitability and likely lift.
• Case study: ConAgra used predictive scoring to select optimal creator ads for Bird’s Eye Vegetables, leading to surprising campaign success.
• Quote (Ali, 22:16): "...integration of media, influencer, creative and content overall is definitely a positive..."
• Mass-scale, programmatic-like creator integrations are possible but risk losing authenticity—balance is key.
• Wish Lists: Industry-wide standardization and measurement integration to prove long-term value of creator work.

Technology Driving Scale: Agentio’s Case Study

7. How Ad Tech is Reshaping the Creator Landscape

Arthur Leopold, Agentio CEO (28:06–42:36)

• Agentio aims to move creator ad buying from artisan/manual to streamlined and scalable—"the DoubleClick for creator advertising."
• Automating negotiation, measurement, and execution enables rapid scaling (e.g., $500K filled in under 24 hours), opening doors for even large brands.
• Infrastructure for standardized ad units (especially on YouTube) is key; Meta’s partnership ads also noted as highly performant.
• Creative variation at scale is essential—AI and creators together can deliver far more unique, high-performing content than old models allow.
• Quote (Arthur, 32:44): "Our belief is that the future of advertising is creator led. It’s unfortunately been too constrained for too long."
• AI is bringing “mediocrity at scale” but also a “Cambrian explosion of creativity.” Amid AI content proliferation, authentic creators with audience trust will command premium attention and dollars.
• Quote (Arthur, 41:53): "...there will also be a concentration of trust towards creators because of the engagement and the equity they’ve built with their audiences."

Entertainment vs. Advertising: Creative Studios & Industry Critics

8. Moving From Ads to Entertainment

Saul (Fallen Media), Ian Schaefer (Ensemble), Panel moderated by Jamie (42:41–58:24)

• The most interesting creator work isn’t a simple 30–60 sec ad; it’s narrative, entertainment-first, blending media and culture.
• Brands repeatedly make the mistake of treating creators as ad agencies or ad units—they lose audience interest and fail to leverage the true cultural power of creators.
• Quote (Ian, 46:58): "Creators aren’t ad agencies. They are...culture. What brands need to understand is that when you mingle with culture, you have to collaborate with it."
• Scale doesn’t always equate to success—sometimes big is the enemy of great. Studio models that bring infrastructure to creators (rather than automating everything) allow for high-quality, culturally relevant outputs.
• Distribution is a brand’s superpower; invest in media spend to put the right content in front of the right people.
• Long-term brand/creator partnerships are far more powerful than transactional campaigns.
• Panelist Wrap-up:
  • Saul’s advice to brands: “Trust us, that’s really it. Take your hands off the wheel...let us do our thing.”
  • Ian’s plea: Focus on relationships, not transactions—treat creators more like enduring ambassadors.

Creators & the Human Side of the Business

9. Creator Perspective: Sydney (The Group Chat) & Haley (Manager at Made by All) (58:28–76:49)

• Sydney’s journey: From theater grad and jewelry seller to viral TikTok creator (1.7M+ new followers in a week), propelled by authentic storytelling and audience engagement.
• Rapid rise comes with challenges: confusion over how to price deals, being approached by brands unprepared for the nuances of creator content.
• Quote (Sydney, 60:01): "You never know...someone in my department literally looked at me and said, 'You're just not going to make it in this industry,'...TikTok didn't even exist when I was in college."
• Brand approach matters: success stories (Hilton, TripAdvisor) stem from brands showing up as true fans in the comments, supporting the content naturally, and allowing creators to retain authenticity and creative control.
• Management/agent is “front door”—vetting fit and alignment is crucial.
• Tension points: Brands often don't understand creator content or the unique requirements of each show/series (e.g., color-coding costumes), leading to friction or impossible asks.
• Platforms (YouTube, Meta) more supportive than TikTok in offering creator support and connections.
• Tips from the field: Brands win by forming relationships, knowing creator content deeply, and not forcing creators to simply parrot brand slogans.

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• "What is more fragmented than the creator ecosystem...?"
  – Connor McKenna (02:56)
• "Creators [are] growing 400% faster than the average of digital media."
  – Zoe Soon (07:19)
• "Engagement is such a blunt metric. Just time on screen doesn't really capture the comments, the brand..."
  – Zoe Soon (13:20)
• "Our belief is that the future of advertising is creator led."
  – Arthur Leopold (32:44)
• "Creators aren't ad agencies. They are...culture. What brands need to understand is that when you mingle with culture, you have to collaborate..."
  – Ian Schaefer (46:58)
• "Big was the enemy of great. Everything that is great starts small and then becomes progressively shittier as it gets bigger."
  – Ian Schaefer (51:47)
• "You never know...someone in my department literally looked at me and said, 'you're just not going to make it in this industry’...TikTok didn't even exist when I was in college." – Sydney (60:01)
• "Trust us...Take your hands off the wheel...let us do our thing."
  – Saul (55:54)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–02:07: Introduction, macro view of the creator economy.
• 02:07–06:14: Tech and fragmentation challenges.
• 06:57–09:14: IAB on brand/creator disconnects.
• 09:14–16:38: AI, measurement, and the conflicts of authenticity.
• 17:20–27:16: Agency perspectives, standardization, scaling integrations.
• 28:06–42:36: Ad tech platforms enabling scale (Agentio case study).
• 42:41–58:24: Critique of advertising mindsets; entertainment-first philosophy.
• 58:28–76:49: Creator stories: going viral, brand relationships, challenges of rapid ascent, and building sustainability.

Conclusion

This wide-ranging conversation paints the creator economy as both an enormous opportunity and an ongoing challenge for brands, agencies, platforms, and creators. While tech and scale are rapidly catching up, every panelist and interviewee returns to the central theme: success comes from authenticity, genuine partnerships, and a willingness for brands to "let go" and trust creators as powerful storytellers and culture-makers. As advertising’s future fuses with entertainment and community, the industry must keep evolving its measurements, processes, and—most importantly—its mindset.