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Inside SharkNinja's Ad Optimization Playbook
00:22:00
SharkNinja Global Head of Media Dave Kersey reveals how the brand bypassed traditional CPG playbooks to build an agile, creator-centric growth engine that turned TikTok Shop into a primary retail driver and revolutionized real-time media optimization.
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- [00:00]
A
People are still wrapping their heads around how big TikTok shop has become and it's comparable to retail media now as much as it is about social influencers. What's that been like?
- [00:08]
B
We launched TikTok shop in the US a bit ago and we've become one of the top brands within the environment and the platform. We've been launching TikTok shop across some of our European markets and seeing immediate rise to number one and earning incredible share across that ecosystem. So we what it's telling us is not only is it the right environment for us to start thinking about as one of our key retail engines and commerce engines, it's really showing us how consumers have really refined their way of shopping.
- [00:38]
A
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- [01:49]
B
Yeah. So leading global media here is very different than any other organization because really the goal here is to connect our product innovation into our growth flywheel. So while it is media in nature, it's really around building a growth engine and that means a lot of things. We'll talk more about it. But ultimately what we do is we build full funnel signal driven media ecosystems to connect our innovation like this chill pill which will become very handy during Cannes and or all summer in the innovation we build to consumers. And we do this through a number of ways, largely from a social virality perspective which we've been known for over the last few years and certainly a lot more on the horizon.
- [02:37]
A
So you're not, you know, a CPG or an electronics company. They're much more intertwined your job and the manufacturing.
- [02:45]
B
Yeah. So part of our, I would call it True Edge, which is what we talk about internally is. Well it's not a handoff within internal divisions. It really is a collaborative environment where product engineering, product design, working with marketing, social to talk through product innovation, ask the questions around is this what consumers care about? Is this something consumers will talk about? One of the factors we use is TOV threshold of virality and it's a pre product development conversation around what is the level of uniqueness a product needs to have for consumers to not only like crave it or want to buy it, but to really create content around it and post it and become almost the ambassadors on our behalf because of the product's DNA. So it's a very different model.
- [03:35]
A
That's a high bar. That's interesting. On that note, you guys have a pretty different social media strategy than the average brand I think. So like can you talk about how you find creators and how do you how things break down between what is paid versus earned?
- [03:51]
B
So it's certainly operationally it's very different. But when we talk about it within our internal conversations, it's social commerce and performance. Regardless of what area of the organization we sit on, it doesn't really matter. It's how we bring innovation into the growth engine to drive our business performance. So from a social perspective, social is all things. Obviously influencers are really the initiators of our virality and our social flywheel. We have really deep relationships across a number of influencer groups all the way from macros mid micro influencers. What I did mention at the top is our shark ninjas in 39 different product categories. Each of those product categories have very unique audience insights and nuances. So finding creators and influencers that are able to speak authentically to our products within those different communities and environments is critical. So that really is how we start the flywheel of virality and then as we start seeing conversation pick up UGC start popping in in social ecosystems is when we turn on the amplification and fuel that message to drive scale.
- [05:11]
A
So you're not. A lot, a lot of brands are trying to fit creators into their existing strategy and then, and then maybe we can figure out a way to tie commerce together. You almost coming from stopping from the opposite position?
- [05:22]
B
We are in actually a number of ways. I mean one, when we have net new product innovation, we will send samples to influencers to ask their opinion before
- [05:32]
A
you've decided, hey, we're making 40,000 of
- [05:34]
B
these thing whatever depending on the cycle of production. Yeah. Say tell us about it. What do you like? What do you, what do you not like? Do you want to talk about it? And so a lot of that creates, you know, it creates a deeper community with influencers because they feel a more vested interest in the products. Right. We're not forcing influencers to talk about our brands necessarily to say go tell your audience about this product. Yeah, we want them to try it, test it and be totally honest about the product. So one we can iterate make it better and or you know, they talk to the community about how they use the product in a more real human way which is I think the power of, of what's been our success over the last few years.
- [06:17]
A
So a lot of brands have to get comfortable with that idea of letting go and letting creators kind of say what they want to say. It's baked into what you do. Is that, is that hard to manage?
- [06:28]
B
You know, it is always going to be hard to manage regardless of where you sit. Because influencers, I mean they, they have become their own brands in many ways but their audience expects to hear from them directly and authentically. So there has to be a little bit of trust there. Right. I mean certainly we have proof points about our products. There's unique differentiators of our products and if we're sometimes we're launching a whole new product category with that comes a lot of education. So we have to make sure that they understand that so they can help their audiences and any consumers we amplify to understand what this product does and how it's going to offer solution for you in your everyday life. So there's got to be a bit of a give and take. But I think building the relationships in the way we do, we find those that want to talk about our products and that are really avid fans of our products versus again forcing it.
- [07:22]
A
And have you figured out is there a clear way to ever brands figuring out how to measure craters? Do I create an analog and plug it into what I already do? Do I push affiliate links out So I can track everything. Like, what's the right way for you guys to view this stuff?
- [07:37]
B
So we look at it from three different perspectives. Actually, it's much more vast than that, but it really rolls up to three key pillars. One is direct response. We see some real immediacy when we launch a new product through our viral engine with influencers and creators. And we see direct conversion on one of our retailers, our DTC platform, Amazon. TikTok shops becoming a huge part of our business and it's where consumers are purchasing and engaging. Right. So we're seeing that from a pure point of sale perspective. And we're also looking at things like incrementality lift in our baseline demand. So looking at where, if it's a new iteration of a product, where were we when we launched this product? What does it look like when we launch this new version of the product and what are those incrementality lifts between the two? Obviously, we're looking at all of the data. A typical CPG would look at branded search, velocity of performance, site traffic. But ultimately for us, when we know our products are all five stars, right, we build it for consumers. So we're not just building a product and expecting consumers to care. We're building it because consumers have a need. It comes down to content performance. Right? So if we have this total social ecosystem and it's not divided by paid organic content, it is one living, breathing ecosystem. The performance of that content matters just as much as where we show up to make sure the messaging's right, that it's aligned. How much time are people spending with our content? If it's short form or even sometimes long term, if we need that educational message, that to me is where we get a lot of really deep insights because we start to learn more what messaging actually works, that consumers care about. So let's create more of that. Or what messaging isn't driving conversion or site traffic. Let's stop doing some of that. So we look at it in a very. A few different ways to help make our informed decisions, which we're doing on an hourly, daily basis.
- [09:34]
A
Can you talk a little bit? People are still wrapping their heads around how big TikTok shop has become and it's. You read about how some brands are. It's almost comparable to retail media now as much as it is about social influencers. What's that been like?
- [09:47]
B
I would say it's been a, a fun, very fast ride. We launched TikTok shop in the US a a bit ago and we've become one of the top brands within the environment and the platform. We've been launching TikTok shop across some of our European markets and seeing immediate rise to number one and earning incredible share across that ecosystem. So what it's telling us is not only is it the right environment for us to start thinking about as one of our key retail engines and commerce engines, it's really showing us how consumers have really refined their way of shopping and what matters to them and what's driving their conversion or their willingness to convert. And it's the creator economy. Right. And so we know the power of that just based on our model generally. But seeing the rise of this and our performance, which has been truly incredible for, for our business, just tells us more about the consumer behavior and where it's going long term.
- [10:47]
A
Right. It's very different than a shopping website where it's a utility almost where it's like the creators are inherent or just integral to what the, with the how that's going to work.
- [10:56]
B
Yeah, it's, it's a different nuance in the idea of discovery versus walking aisles, shopping in a brick and mortar versus being influenced by a human or a creator. Right. So very, very different way in, but something that's worked for us. So when TikTok shop came online and we started seeing some early success, we went all in. And we're continuing to.
- [11:18]
A
Speaking of all in, you guys have seriously upped your ad spending in the past year or so. What was behind that? How's it going?
- [11:25]
B
It was well intentioned. It was all based on performance, to be honest. I mean, there's two things really driving it. One is we're seeing outsized returns in our model because we move so fast as an organization. Looking at both point of sale performance, media performance, content performance, we're able to make really agile decisions. And like I said, we optimize hourly, daily, like it is real time. We don't set a campaign look next week to see what changes we want to make. We are doing it live. That allows us to figure out what are the, who are the winners, whether it's platforms, it's content, how do we scale that and continue to drive that until we plateau. So it allows us to see in real time. Increased media investment is driving outsized returns and that's really, really critical to our business. The infrastructure we've built internally allows us to do that, allows us to optimize at speed. Our teams are very agile. Our media agency partners and our platform partners know how we operate. And so everyone's in it with this Agile mindset of we're not a typical brand. We don't operate like a typical media brand or media investment brand. We do it the way that makes you know, that works for us, that drives our business and it's okay if it doesn't align to what other, you know, competitors or other CPG businesses are doing. That's not our responsibility. Our responsibility is to drive the growth of this brand.
- [12:48]
A
So given the way you're describing, looking at things hourly, agility being everything, it doesn't scream traditional television advertiser. How do you view television? And I imagine you're not a big upfront player, but are you able to use it in the way that you use other media?
- [13:06]
B
So it's often a discussion here because we are so social first digital, total digital. The way I like to say is social first digital. Only TV makes sense for us in ways of contextual relevance. Part of bigger programming opportunities. If we're doing a big partnership with like Amazon for example or content integrations and a Netflix special that includes Kevin Hart, he's one of our celebrity ambassadors and we can create a, you know, a 360 type program, that's where TV really shines for us. Or I wouldn't even say TV to be honest. It's CTV. Anything that we have the agenda for optimization. Upfronts don't matter to us in the way I think the industry leverages upfronts. What I look for and what matters to me are partners that come to the table with total business and growth solutions. Doesn't have to live in a living room TV screen. It doesn't have to live on a mobile device. It's truly bringing the best of these platforms forward to align with our model and drive our business. So it could include video across screens, it could include commerce, it could be a hybrid of all things. So that's how I've been building annualized or upfront type partnerships. It's just not a spots and dots TV relationship for us.
- [14:26]
A
So do you like. A lot of brands are debating whether like YouTube is TV or short form is the same thing as TV. It sounds like maybe you guys don't think that way or it can can blend those things pieces more easily.
- [14:37]
B
I mean you know it goes back tv. It doesn't doesn't show up in our conversations that often. When we talk short form content it's in the likes of social content. YouTube content which you know becoming a bigger conversation obviously for you know, just show up in results. With Geo obviously that's the next wave short form Content for us becomes more educational again. If we're launching a new product category altogether and we have new innovation to launch that category, education's important, so we do some longer form content there. And again, it's building what makes sense for us, not really adhering to what the industry is telling us like those platforms are for.
- [15:16]
A
Are you bullish on Shoppable Television or connecting content and commerce or is that not, not where it needs to be for your knee, for your brand?
- [15:26]
B
I wouldn't say bullish. Am I pushing partners to realize the bigger opportunity? Yes, I think where the breakdown often comes down to three areas. Measurement, fragmentation. I think the delay, feedback loops. Because we move so fast, I need real time insight into performance, whether it's engagement, it's conversion, add to cart, whatever that interface is through like a living room type environment and then lack of standardized attribution. Right. There are some fundamental things that we use as a baseline for how we're aligning all of our media investment and activity. I think Shoppable TV is again changing consumer behavior not to the speed that I'm seeing with social commerce. Yeah, but it still is changing consumer behavior. So certainly I want to be there and I want to capitalize on the opportunity. I need certain things to be true for me to go all in. And it comes down to data and the ability to move at speed.
- [16:24]
A
Putting aside TV for a second, just overall, what's your brand's biggest pain point?
- [16:30]
B
I would say from a media perspective, it's signal fragmentation. I've unveiled a new vision for how we're moving into market from a media perspective. And it's based on new vision for our organization. And it's based on two things, signals and outcomes. Signal fragmentation is real. All we can look at right now are very few signals because a lot of what we do is in the social digital ecosystem. The data layers exist so I can make more agile decisions, as can my team. But when I look at broadening that out and scaling it across platforms, channels, digital opportunities like digital out of home or ctv, it's the signal breakdown that is, I think the biggest pain point because I need that to be true and connected in order for me to move at speed across the full ecosystem. When I think about global markets, where US is very social first and digital. Right. And I would say markets like apac, which isn't really, it's not my territory, certainly more digitally socially advanced. When we launch into new markets across Europe, there is still an important need to be across different outlets within the marketplace to show up as a relevant, trusted brand.
- [17:44]
A
Interesting.
- [17:45]
B
But in order for us to deliver the way we do, it has to be from a digital perspective. So signal fragmentation right now is my biggest, I would say pain point.
- [17:56]
A
Yeah, nobody's totally figured out how to solve that.
- [17:58]
B
It seems like not, not in the way that's going to work for us.
- [18:02]
A
Yeah, you were, you were an agency guy before this job. What's. Has anything been a big surprise being a, you know, being on the client side?
- [18:10]
B
Yeah, there's a number of things that are pretty big nuances compared to the two. I think in the brand side, you're certainly in it. It's data informed, especially here at Sharkninja. Even roles before you're making decisions based on what's driving the business. On the agency side, I think the challenge often that I've felt from my agency days is brands are asking you to create solutions for them, but they're giving you limited visibility into the right information to make those decisions. So as an agency, you're swinging right, you're swinging for these ideas and solutions that you're making based on what you have at your fingertips, often being shot down by the client because they're, you know, that's not what's going to drive our business. So there's been, I think broadly in the industry a disconnect between what an agency's role is and how they can better support brands. I would say taking these, my learnings from both sides, I've created a model with my media agencies where it is fully transparent. We're sharing all of our data. In fact, I'm plugging them into our internal leadership meetings. Our data is a free flow API into their ecosystems and then back into our ecosystem. So we all have the same data. The solutions are based on our overall vision, our mission and what we are holding ourselves accountable to. And I think that's been the biggest differentiator from where I sit here on the brand side.
- [19:39]
A
I imagine you worked on all kinds of different brands in your agency life. Do you ever think about, I mean, not every brand could be this direct response oriented, I guess, but oh, so and so client could be moving so much faster if they embrace this kind of thinking. Or is it just really hard for traditional marketers to work this way?
- [19:59]
B
I don't think it's that hard. I think there are models that work for certain brands, but ultimately it needs to come from the top down. Right. So it's really like the, our CEO Mark is driving this. It's been, it's been the engine that's gotten this brand to where it is today. Our growth is just unreal and we continue to have really high expectations of growth and we're delivering on those. That only happens because of the model we have. Right comes top down. I think there's a lot of other industries I've worked in or categories I've worked in where, you know, we'll work on a project or we'll operationalize this new way forward. And I think, wow, this would have been really helpful for X, Y and Z and probably still would be today. It's just a matter of their org's willingness.
- [20:49]
A
All right, last thing. What's our what's our must buy for the summer? What's the Shark Ninja product everyone needs to know about?
- [20:56]
B
So every one of our products, SharkNinja.com, i would say, and I showed it a minute ago, the chill pill. We launched this earlier this year. It's a three in one. It has, it's a fan, personal fan. It also has a Mr. And then a cryo. That's pretty awesome. I'm going to have it in can. So if I see you around there, I will let you tinker with.
- [21:17]
A
I'm going to look for you.
- [21:19]
B
This is one of our big products and actually a lot of my colleagues and friends in the industry have already texted me saying they bought theirs ready for can. But it's one of our personal items that isn't really intended to be in the home, which a lot of our products are for. The kitchen, personal care, the living room. And this is for on the go.
- [21:38]
A
All right. Well, I'm ready to be the next celebrity Endor serve if it, if it works out. Dave, awesome conversation. Thanks so much for your time.
- [21:45]
B
Yeah, thank you. It was a good chatting with you.
- [21:47]
A
Thanks again to my guest this week, Shark Ninjas, Dave Kirsty and my partners at Vizio. If you like this week's episode, please take a moment to rate and leave a review. We have lots more to bring you, so please hit that subscribe button and we'll see you next time for more on what's next in media. Thanks for listening.