Podcast Host (3:23)

I want to ask you about the micro drama stuff, but let me get. I want to come back to. It's a lot of interesting things you said there. First of all, that you have 22 streaming services is nuts. Give me like what's an equivalent here if we're trying to wrap our heads around this. So like if I'm Peacock or Paramount plus they usually they'll use a, I don't know, a free will for ad serving and they'll. So they'll have, I'm sure they'll probably outsource some of their other aspects of their ad tech and the. Just the running of the app. Is it that you, you don't do that stuff, you do that all yourself? Like what's a good analogy here to.

Eric Opica (3:56)

Help people understand what your, your. Yeah, I think, I think the, the good analogy would be, you know, kind of a baby version of what Roku does. You know. Okay, we have our own ad tech stack called C360. We use it to monetize our own services as well as an audience. It's an audience extension platform that takes our audience and lets people buy them wherever they may be across.

Podcast Host (4:22)

So is that like your own SSP kind of similar?

Eric Opica (4:27)

Yeah, yeah. So, so we do that and you know, it gives us just much greater flexibility. You know, we can, you know, we also, you know, sell audience data segments so advertisers can target better. So it just gives us a more granular level of, of approach. On top of that, you know, we own, you know, editorial platforms. We own the. For example, we own the number one branded horror. Bloody disgusting. So you know, we're able.

Podcast Host (4:59)

I've stumbled on that side here and there.

Eric Opica (5:01)

Sure, sure. So the idea here really. And on top of that we also have a, a big podcast network that you know, know is a top 10 in North America in terms of listenership. So when you put all those pieces together, it allows us to build and market whether it's launching a new streaming service or a movie, we can do it pretty cost efficiently relative to what others our competitors are doing.

Podcast Host (5:30)

So a lot of interesting things there. I want to come back to it, but let's go back to kind of what brought us together here is you are on the board of this new startup. It's, it's called Microco. Correct. And it's, you put into your words, but you, you're, it's someone you're looking to capitalize on this micro drama trend. But any as a US based branded company, is that the right way to think about this?

Eric Opica (5:52)

Yeah, I think, you know, we, we've been tracking what's been going on globally, particularly China for the last couple of years. It's about 20, 22, 23 and, and saw it mature from you know, a kind of quirky early adopter model. Kind of like what we're in now here in the US into something where half of everyone in China watches it every day, which is crazy almost.

Podcast Host (6:20)

There's a lot of people there.

Eric Opica (6:22)

Last In September, nearly 600 million people in China consumed micro drama. So this isn't just a very tiny slice. This is a part of everyday consumption to the point where it's eating into traditional broadcast streaming and even social consumption, video consumption time. So you know, given that huge slice, huge audience and the dynamics we're starting to see here in North America, you know, we thought it would be, you know, our, our thesis is that this could end up being, you know, 13 to 15% of all video consumption time at maturity, which would be, you know, probably a $20 billion business at maturity if it gets to that point. So even if we're only half right, it's still pretty good, a pretty good market, bigger than the entire US Theatrical market. So we think it's a, it's a worthwhile endeavor.

Podcast Host (7:21)

I want to come back to your projections in the scope of the market. But you know, there's, there's the always the question of whether, you know, not everything from China translates like what's giving you confidence? Like there's, there's certainly having a moment. You're seeing some of the top apps hit the download store rankings. But you know, like for example, we've been waiting for one app kind of thing to come over here from China or to that model emerge. It hasn't really happened. You know, the US is different. We haven't seen like the social shopping thing as big here though it's coming like what gives you confidence this is going to work here, I guess is what I'm saying.

Eric Opica (7:55)

Well, number one Unlike those other examples you gave, this is already, you know, rapidly approaching a billion dollar business already in North America with very little exposure. And I think this is, you know, simply because a. It's, you know, it's quite compelling and fun to consume. Scratches. It's the end to the social scrolling dopamine Yang. Right. You know your, your typical social feed feeds the part of your brain that likes novelty and you know this microdramas feed the part of your brain that likes anticipation. Right. Our, it scratches the predictive elements of our brain that are deeply embedded in learning and cognitive understanding. So it's, it has, you know, because of that people really enjoy it. It's the same way when you watch, you know, I'm a big fan of Groundhog Day, yet you know, I've watch every time it's on, I'll watch it so. And every time you watch it, it's like watching it 10 times. Right. So I, so but yet I love it. Why? Because I'm anticipating what's going to happen. Because I, you know, it's scratching that part of your brain and that's why we love reruns and rewatching things. Yeah, but this is, this version of that format is even more compelling because it takes, you know, endemically the three act structure of storytelling that's been around since we gathered around, you know, the fire. Right. Evolved beyond the beginning, middle and end, the hero's journey, all of those, those deeply beloved formats. What micro dramas have done is taken something that's innate in our, you know, humanity and turned it into every three minutes. It's, it's doing that. Right. So that is at the basis of why it's so compelling, fun. And you know, in the US in, in a very short order of, you know, 16, 18 months of availability has already become a billion dollar business. So my, you know, if you think about the super apps and other things, well, we have proxies for those. Right, Right. It's not a perfect analog to what happens in China, but it is very close. You know, customer acquisition in China comes within the super app and it's kind of baked in here. There's a little more friction in it in that you know, you're consuming, you're getting a taste of it on TikTok and they're pushing you to another app. So there is more friction. But a, over time, you know, the bigger players, as this business becomes really, really big, will likely, um, you know, the same way everyone copied TikTok when it got to 70, 70 million US MAUs. I think yeah, everyone's, you know, The Metas and YouTubes and others, when it's a big enough business that it, that they understand it's not a fly by night thing and I think they feel it, they'll get into the mix too. And I think that those things explode adoption pretty rapidly. When that happens.

Podcast Host (11:20)

I'm confessed to not being a micro drama guy yet. I've seen snippets of it give people a sense are we talking? I think, I think I, I imagine people's head mind goes to like, is this like a sped up soap opera? Is it a, you know, look something that's more like Cinemax from the 90s? Like what? Give me a little, give us a flavor of what the genre is like and where maybe where it could go.

Eric Opica (11:41)

Yep, I think so. I think today what you're seeing is know there's a lot of different ways to, to unpack it, but it's you know, think of it as Hallmark movie style romances in the tamer versions to you know, that say the Showtime After Dark maybe a little obviously less spicy than that for you know, consumption within TikTok and others that have terms of services. Right. But you know, today that, that format is predominantly driven by romance romantasy fantasy with a strong dose of sex appeal and titillation.

Podcast Host (12:22)

Yeah.

Eric Opica (12:23)

And you know, but if you kind of take a look at what's happening in China, that's where it started as well. And today it's game shows, talk shows, it's, you know, police dramas, it's reality, it's political thrillers, it's everything. Right. So we're starting to see some early experimentation in the market today with the format and different, you know, we're starting to see an expansion as these, as these companies really try to, to, to find what's the next iteration of the format.

Podcast Host (13:02)

So you kind of led me to my next question because I was going to say is the target for this? I'm going to assume it's young women to start, but I guess in China are you seeing all kinds of different demographics being served by this eventually that it, it can work for everybody?

Eric Opica (13:16)

Yeah. So domestically it actually skews a little bit older than young women. It's, it's more like 35 to 50.

Podcast Host (13:23)

Okay.

Eric Opica (13:24)

Plot 50 and up, you know, more disposable income, you know, willing to pay these premium prices that early adopters are paying right now. We've seen this market really be the backbone of a lot of streaming adoption trends. You know, if you remember, you Know, a decade ago, the, the Korean drama craze when it was really in its.

Podcast Host (13:49)

Emphasis, drama fever was hot for a while.

Eric Opica (13:52)

Drama fever and some of these others, you know, you know, the thing is it never went away. It just went mainstream and it was. And Korean dramas became a much larger business and co opted by the big streamers. Right, right. So, you know, there is a little bit of a parallel to that, but I think, you know, I think the difference here is that was, you know, maybe an interesting genre, but the same old format. Right. Standard sort of television, three act structure for broadcast and cable. This is an entirely new invention designed for where people are increasingly spending most of their time today.

Podcast Host (14:35)

I want to come back to the formats and stuff, but we should get into the business model as I understand it in Asia and then even what's coming over here. Most of them are, tell me, correct me if I'm wrong, there's some free elements, but most of them are subscription services. I don't know how big a role advertising has played to date. So do I have that right? And where do you see this going? Could it be for you guys a bigger ad player? What's the model that makes the most sense over time?

Eric Opica (15:02)

Yeah, well, look, having been in streaming now 13, 14 years, I've seen the model go from interestingly when we launched it, when we launched our niche services when we first got into the Space 2011, 2012, the advertising technology for connected TV basically didn't exist. But yet we still didn't really know which way things were going to go. And so we, we hedged our bet and went both directions. So we were, I guess, partially, partially right that it's, it's gone both ways. Well, what we've seen with micro dramas in China is started out there much like it is here, right. Early adopters paying pay per view with token purchases or very large weekly or annual subscriptions, up to $200 a year, 20 bucks a week or $20 per view. Those are definitely early adopter pricing at early adopter prices. And you know, in China, very high margins, attracted a ton of competition, flooded the market with competitors, right, who all launched tons of programming and then we had a glut. So it kind of, you know, if you're a student of history, it looked a lot like the video game crisis of the mid-80s or you know, pick your, you know, pick your poison, I think. And guess what, the U.S. is I think, starting to show the early stages of this with, you know, we have got, you know, a new announcement every couple of weeks and so on. So I think. But if you kind of look at China and say, what. Where did that lead to? Well, it led to, you know, to get to mass audience, to get to 5,600 million people. Clearly, you know, you're not charging the Chinese equivalent of $200 a year or 20. Right. You know, you're providing it for free and then finding ways to upsell into, into ad free or other premium perks and, and things. So I think that's going to happen here in the same way that, you know, the ad supported subsidy model. People love it in America. It's been the backbone of.

Podcast Host (17:18)

Right. We thought it was over and now it's become everybody's got an ad here and it's making, it's helping grow the category.

Eric Opica (17:24)

Everyone said it was dead and going away and everyone hated commercials. And then people hate paying large fixed monthly recurring charges more than they hate ads, I guess.

Podcast Host (17:34)

Right.

Eric Opica (17:36)

So I think we'll see that happen here as well.

Podcast Host (17:39)

Okay, so let's get back to your role here in your launch, Microco. Why don't you maybe tell, tell people who's involved here. There's a, there's a impressive list of names and then I have some questions about where this launch is headed.

Eric Opica (17:52)

So. Yeah. So, you know, earlier this year as we were contemplating ending the space, I had the pleasure of meeting Lloyd Braun, you know, in addition to being, I was a Seinfeld fan. So obviously if you, you know, Lloyd Braun, you know, the character, the namesake.

Podcast Host (18:06)

Character he had, he once in real life ran abc and, you know, he's.

Eric Opica (18:12)

Behind, you know, he was the guy who said, damn, the torpedoes were lost. You know, when he, when he ran TV at Brillstein Gray, you know, he, you know, championed the creation of the Sopranos and, you know, so seminal history, making bets on creative shows that transform the world. And so, you know, when we had a meeting of the minds and he, you know, it was kind of like that Spider man meme where they're pointing at each other.

Podcast Host (18:42)

Yep.

Eric Opica (18:42)

Right. That's. It was kind of that scenario like, wait, you're looking at microdramas. We're looking at microdramas. And so, you know, we're more of a technology shop. We're not a production outfit. And, and he's sort of the opposite. He's, you know, he's always been focused on the creatives and the creative side of it. And so it was just a real natural fit. And we, you know, that was the genesis of the joint venture. We brought in Jana Winograde as a CEO. You know, she ran Showtime you know, recently, as recently as a couple years ago in their sort of renaissance with yellow jackets and a lot of other, you know, you know, the Dexter rebirth and Susan Rovener who you know, was chairwoman, chairwoman of the television studio for NBC programming for Peacock and she, you know, most recently Love Island. But she's had, you know, many, many shows that hit the hundred episode mark, you know, Gossip Girl and so on.

Podcast Host (19:48)

So tons of pros, tons of veterans from the, from the big media space.

Eric Opica (19:52)

Seminal high quality creative talent. And so, you know, but usually when people hear that they say, okay, oh, are you trying to make television programming for this? I think what I love about this team is they're savvy enough to really, you know, get and embrace the format as you know, you don't need to spend big bucks on this programming for it to work. It's about people building parasocial relationships with, with cast and characters. You know, usually, you know, when you, most of the scenes in these micro dramas, you know, it's big close ups, it's faces, you know, it's people. Right.

Podcast Host (20:34)

We're not talking about action sequences and huge sets and all these things.

Eric Opica (20:38)

It doesn't really work. I mean there's a little bit of that but you know, it'll be de minimis, it'll be the set atmosphere. But these things are really more about, you know, dialogue and conversation. You know, TV fits that same mode, although it's become more and more of a spectacle with the requisite price appreciation. Yeah, but I think this is going a back to basics approach which I think the industry really kind of needed as a reset.

Podcast Host (21:08)

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Eric Opica (22:06)

They're already there.

Podcast Host (22:07)

It's so hard to have your own thing. Like what's behind that strategy and thinking.

Eric Opica (22:10)

Well, you know, I think as we, as we look at the space and you see hundreds of apps already launched globally. There's about 50 available in North America. Most of them are Chinese owned. We think there's, you know, the need for a platform in the space is, is real. We're a technology company so we, we look at the things that space lacks today. You know one, the user experience is pretty bad, right?

Podcast Host (22:39)

Okay.

Eric Opica (22:39)

You know, you've got to, to find micro dramas. It's usually people stumble on them rather than they, than you know, people make. Today most people are seeing ads stumbling on them and downloading go have to download an app and go down this whole rabbit hole. And then the experience on these, it's. I'd use the word casino but maybe that's okay. You know, it, it feels, feels weird. It doesn't feel like a, you know, we're all used to, you know, high quality media experiences here. I think it's, you know, the experience feels cheap like a cheap casino in a lot of, okay. From a lot of, a lot of players in the market in the worst scenarios, in the best case scenarios scenario, you know, it's low quality ads, it's gaming type ads and other sort of.

Podcast Host (23:29)

Weird, schlocky, clunky, you know, like clunky.

Eric Opica (23:32)

And then the programming. We wouldn't put together a world class team to make programming if, if we were, you know, just going to make the same stuff everyone else is making. Right. Better comes from understanding story, understanding people, understanding how to, how to make those things work. And I think, you know, there, there's a lot of players out there that are taking shortcuts. Right. They're using AI to create scripts poorly. You know, you have, you know, very poor quality productions. Doesn't take much to improve production values. You know, it takes usually a lot of what happens to create good productions happens in, in strong development rather than what I said. Right. It's garbage in, garbage out. You have bad scripts, bad preparation, bad development, bad casting equals bad stuff. Right? So we think, you know, veterans that know the space and then there's just, you know, economies of scale and other things. I'll call it secret sauce of how we can make extremely high quality stuff for, for the same price. Everyone else is Paying or even less. So that's number one. Two, you know, we, you know, thinking about format, the team we have isn't just great at doing and creating sensational programming that changed television in scripted. They did it in unscripted too. Right. So my point on all this is no one really has succeeded in adapting the format into anything other than romantasy today in North America. And the things that work in China won't necessarily work right elsewhere.

Podcast Host (25:13)

You said something interesting before the. Because I think people often compare this to Quibi, right? Oh, this is like Quibi or. And that the idea there was almost to have media for your downtime, for killing time on your phone when you're in line or whatever. You said that in China you're seeing this eat into regular media consumption. I think that maybe would surprise people that this is not just like when you have nothing else to do.

Eric Opica (25:40)

Yeah, this is. So if you think about how vertical video is rapidly becoming and at the rate it's going, it'll become the predominant way that people consume video.

Podcast Host (25:52)

Yeah.

Eric Opica (25:53)

And so it seems to me pretty natural to think if that's the predominant way to consume video, why won't professional long, professional longer, short form, professionally produced short form and professionally produced formatted premium content also what, you know, do we think that could also be. Maybe it's not the predominant way, but it could be a significant and major way to the point it. It transforms the business. Because I think then you start to really think about. All right, if your daily touch. Because you think about how many people their daily touch point is the first thing they pick up and it's the last thing they put down every day.

Podcast Host (26:33)

Yep.

Eric Opica (26:33)

It's in their hand all day long. And I think, number one, you know, you go to the Quibi example, I think right idea. The world hadn't quite caught up yet to it. Right. You know, number one, you know, the discovery mechanism. Number one, the format didn't exist. Right. The this structure, you know, the Chinese lucked into it, stumbled into it and then ran with it. You know, Quibby was. Was just cutting regular shows into pieces. It may have done a little. They were, you know, intuitively moving in the right direction. But inherently it wasn't this sort of highly bingeable.

Podcast Host (27:14)

Right. It was just chopped up TV shows.

Eric Opica (27:18)

Chopped up TV shows you can go see. If you go watch them on Roku, you would never know they were shot mobile. Right, right, right. So number one. Number two, the discovery mechanism in vertical video in, you know, we forget 2021 was nascent in North America. Yeah.

Podcast Host (27:34)

We didn't have, we just, I think reels just started. Tik Tok was just getting big. Like it's a long time ago in.

Eric Opica (27:39)

This world, you know. And then three, the cost structure was ridiculously out of whack. Right. Micro dramas cost, you know, for, you know, I mean you raise a billion dollars, a billion dollars of micro dramas would be an endless supply of microdramas for decades. Right, right. So, you know, you put all those things together and you can, you can see why instincts were right. We're going to spend way more time on our phone as, as what happens with many technical innovations. The first people are usually too early. So they get a, you know, they get a nice footnote in history as the guys who, you know the same guy. I don't. I, you know, whoever did the first TV broadcast in 1930 probably didn't make a ton of money, but they were right too. Right, right, right. Or webvan and you know, grocery.

Podcast Host (28:29)

Google didn't start the search ads actually was, I think go to or something. Yes. Like it, it's, it takes a minute sometimes. What is your, what, what's your time timeline look like right now for this?

Eric Opica (28:41)

Yeah. So, you know, we're, we are looking at early next year, you know, within, you know, the first, first half of the year, probably spring. So once again, because we're, you know, I think when you, when you think about the market today, you can, if you just wanted another copycat app in the store, you want to launch it, you know, you can go hire some, you know, Eastern European developers, Israeli developers, you can hire, you know, Indian developers and spin up one of these things, go, you know, yeah. Shoot a bunch of content, make a couple bucks and come out, you know. But we saw how that worked out for the early streaming era. There were thousands and thousands of streaming services globally, all competing, you know, what you know, or you look at what happened in China, the glut of, of people just launching, trying to launch these services. It leads in a. I think we're trying to do something that's really, really different in that, you know, number one, we own our own platform. Tech, you know, our, our Matchpoint platform. We've developed incredibly high quality search and discovery. So if you think about the genesis of any streaming service, next gen server, especially a vertical video service, it's not just about can you display the video, it's the algorithm.

Podcast Host (30:14)

UI and the algorithm are everything.

Eric Opica (30:16)

Yeah, right. And it's about reinventing and reimagining what works globally already for the and adapting it for the US market. I think what's happened is a lot of people have kind of taken a kind of short term cash grab view of, wow, people are paying 20, 30, $40. I need to get a market out there, launch. Right. Money. You know, you have to really look five, six, seven years down the road and say, hey, if this really is going to be a format, what we need is, you know, is people who build community, enable discovery and do a lot of the cool things you're going to need to do to make this not just a, you know, I've been on the treadmill that is the customer acquisition CAC game. And once you get on it, you can never get off it. Right. You're, and you, you know, you got to run faster and faster every day to, you know, barely grow or stay in the same place at incredible. You know, I've, I'm hearing that some of the top players of the, the Chinese players in the US are spending, you know, 70 to 80% of their revenue on customer acquisition. That's clearly, you know, not a sustainable model.

Podcast Host (31:34)

It doesn't seem like you have a real brand there if you're doing that.

Eric Opica (31:36)

Yeah, it's really, you know, in the US people resonate and relate, connect with brands. By the way, Microco is a placeholder. Yeah, you know, I assume so for business purposes. But you know, we're working on the consumer facing brand. But you know, it's. How do you, you know, if this, if you imagine a universe a decade from now where this is 15 to 20% of all consumption time, you know, think about a universe in an ecosystem. How microdramas play in with media. They aren't a standalone silo. They interplay with longer form content, theatrical content and they, you know, maybe it's a prequel to something, they want you to go movie theater or maybe it's, it's a continuation between movies in a franchise that keep you interested. Right. Maybe clues and things happen in the micro drama universe that gets you really excited because you know, you think about the movie business, which we're in too. You know, people on average go just a couple times a year, so they really need to be excited to get out of there.

Podcast Host (32:46)

You got to eventize everything, put that.

Eric Opica (32:48)

Down and go see something in theater. So if you catch them and get them really excited on the device and engaged and the breadcrumbs lead elsewhere, you can get them. So we think this will be an incredible part of a new ecosystem of engagement. And, but you know, today the current incarnation of These apps just simply don't fit with that. So that's, that's a little bit, that's, that's a tease.

Podcast Host (33:15)

A little taste of pretty good tease.

Eric Opica (33:17)

And we'll, we'll be revealing more details on what we're doing on that front. But on, but beyond that, we think also having the best example of what this format can do from some of the best minds and, and creatives out there. Those two powers together. It's, you know, um, to date myself, it's the, the power twins. Right.

Podcast Host (33:39)

Couple quick ones for me, Eric. Will this have any place on television or is this purely going to be a mobile thing? And then are you talking to brands yet or is it too early?

Eric Opica (33:48)

Yeah, so two buckets to that. Number one. If you kind of look at YouTube's and to a lesser degree TikTok since it's newer. But YouTube, I read a report from them that 12% of all vertical video is consumed on televisions.

Podcast Host (34:04)

Yes. They talk about shorts working on TV pretty well.

Eric Opica (34:07)

It works, it works on a tv. And I, and to me, I was kind of scratching my head, why does it work? And then it was like an aha moment. People are freeing their hands up to goof around on their phone and they're still watching the phone content on a big screen right next to them.

Podcast Host (34:23)

Yeah, yeah.

Eric Opica (34:24)

So it's kind of a, you know, so you know, I'm, I'm assuming if you could fix. So number one, all of our platforms support, you know, 30 plus different CTV platforms. So we definitely are adapting this. We think that'll be a big competitive advantage we'll have over others because it took us a really long time to build those things. It's not easy to do. So yeah, so a. We will have that. We're thinking of different ways to, how to have the interplay between the, the device in your hand and the screen work.

Podcast Host (34:54)

Interesting.

Eric Opica (34:55)

So that's, you know, it's something on the roadmap. So that's number one. Yeah. So you know, brands aren't exactly the tip of the spear in new media formats. They, they like to see it germinate. You know, I'll give you a good example. Anime, you know, is, you know, it's like, you know that your, your favorite college band, that was a 20 night overnight. 20 year overnight.

Podcast Host (35:20)

Yeah.

Eric Opica (35:20)

Yeah, that's right. Anime has been a huge staple of consumption for.

Podcast Host (35:25)

But explaining that a couple of years ago with your brand would have been. Is tough.

Eric Opica (35:28)

Brands would have been scratching the anime. Now, you know, you've got Major brands asking us how do we get into this anime audience that's really hard to find elsewhere. It's cool and it's fun. It's right at the epicenter of culture. And so I think for savvy brands, you know, that want white space and to own a space that already is, you know, you know, I think next year it'll be maybe half of where TikTok was before, you know, it went, it blew up in, you know, 2018, 2019, 2020. So I think the brands will come. I think next year, you know, next year will probably be a big year for the space. But, you know, you have to have the right ad products. And today there's no ecosystem or infrastructure at all in the advertising space to support microdramas. We've got some solutions for that, we think, but, you know, I think, you know, part of it is some brands taking flyer at it. I think also, you know, right now the, the space is heavy, kind of female, romanticy, and it fits well, there's certain brands and buckets that, that fits great for, but I think it needs to broaden out a little bit.

Podcast Host (36:43)

Sure.

Eric Opica (36:46)

But it's also edgy and, you know, tongue in cheek and things. So it's a good fit. You know, I would expect, you know, the brands that, that appeals to, to dive in early and get a piece of it.

Podcast Host (36:58)

Last one, Eric. Just give people quickly your, your connection to the Terrifier franchise.

Eric Opica (37:05)

Yeah, so we're, we're the distributor of that property. You know, we, you know, I. Using all the different pieces that I talked about on this call and our sort of philosophy on moneyballing awareness, you know, leveraging own media assets, our own ad assets, an innate understanding of the horror audience. And obviously it all starts with a fantastic product and a movie. And that's what Damien Leone and Phil Falcone put together with the Terrifier franchise. I mean, it's a, it's, you know, it's a, it's the new Freddy, it's the new horror icon. So, you know, part of being able to succeed is, you know, not screwing it up when someone gives you a franchise that's got that much love and excitement around it. And so, you know, I would be remiss if I didn't say it starts with the content. But I think our approach, you know, and I think that's the basis for our movie studio too, is saying, hey, how do we, how do we release movies like Terrifier? That if a studio, if a studio had released Terrifier, you know, These guys would have made way less money. You know, you would have had tens of millions of dollars of advertising, you know, expenditures sitting in front of him that didn't need to be spent, and the deal would have sucked. So, you know, call me oldfashioned, but I think, you know, honoring talent, giving them a fair shake and not a shakedown and, and, you know, working with them to build the awareness and build a, a media plan that doesn't. Isn't just, you know, painting by numbers is what happens a lot with the studios. Nobody gets fired. You know, nobody gets fired if they checked all the boxes, Right. You change anything, it doesn't work. Oh, you know, why try something new.

Podcast Host (39:06)

If you don't have to?

Eric Opica (39:07)

Yeah, yeah. So you've got. There's a lot of political inertia when you have those big organizations like that not to try new things. So I, you know, we, we have a culture of saying, you know, let's try it, you know, and I think that's been the basis of everything we do. And that's also why we're in the microdrama space. Right. If you, if we didn't try fast channels in 2016 when they were laughable, a laughable joke with no distribution.

Podcast Host (39:35)

Right.

Eric Opica (39:36)

Wouldn't have been early into this space if we weren't trying to rethink what, what it means to be a micro drama platform, we will probably be a, an also ran. Know. Think the same thing goes for the theatrical business. Right.

Podcast Host (39:50)

Well, it's the first time I've, I've discussed terrifier micro dramas and ad tech in the same conversation, but fascinating stuff. Awesome conversation. Let's, let's talk again when you guys are up and running, but thanks so much for your time here.

Eric Opica (40:03)

Hey, thank you so much.

Podcast Host (40:04)

Thanks again. And my guest this week, Cineverse, is Eric Opa and my partners at Elemental TV and sao. If you like this week's episode, please take a moment to rate and leave a review. We have lots more to bring you, so please hit that subscribe button. We'll see you next time for more on what's Next in media. Thanks for listening.